If you are trying to throw a hate rally and the counter protesters use violence to attempt to quash your freedom of expression you now have a legitimate complaint and gain the sympathies of the undecided and unmotivated.

I'm not sure it ever "helps" Trump to be associated with riots (either as target or instigator of) but it does feed into his paranoid narrative about the massive conspiracy against his ascendancy.

Also, it doesn't make the anti-Trumps look reasonably when they turn into a police-cruiser-smashing mob. Freedom of speech applies to both sides alike and Trump's right to be a narcissistic scumbug is not something liberals can just veto with rioting.

Let Trump destroy himself.

Shit. Of course it helps Trump because he feeds violence. He encourages it. Them and us.
Once the political discourse becomes violent, the ideas are no longer the issue. People use the opportunity to let all their personal rage at life, out.
Who is this guy, and why does he want to see America burn?
He is truly an evil jester.

Emblematic of the electoral beatdown Trump has coming his way?

oh...as far as the 'undecided'

Normalizing violence in connection with political rallies is simply bad, and the real possiblity that it escalates to more violent outcomes is yet worse.

While I'm all for protesting against the hate filled rhetoric of Donald Trump, I cannot support people not willing to do so peacefully.

@9 add my voice to sublime afterglow. This helps trump and fuels his people.

Why does the officer accused of excessive force make sure to point out the accuser is a bum or a thief or a murderer? Because it justifies his violence as well as undermine the credibility of the accuser. We are emotional animals and when people waving Mexican flags start pelting officers who are trying to keep the peace, those watching implicitly start thinking walls are justified. Look at furgeson. The DOJ issued a report showing how the populace had been prayed on, but as soon as they slipped from protest to violence, they lost the p.r fight and a lot of credibility. The theme became they deserved the harsh policing.

@9,

Pretty much perfect & succinct. So frustrating to know in my heart that I'm on the right side of history, but also finding it somehow necessary to qualify such a statement by disassociating myself from a large faction of those I'm ostensibly aligned with politically.

(and I guess the violent/destructive element isn't actually all that "large" a faction, though they'll be portrayed as such, thereby forcing the discussion & qualification.)

@3- So the rioters will bring more bigots to the polls. They won't bring any more non-bigots, they'll just make people not want to be associated with this. This kind of shit does NOTHING for the benefit of the USA. This is exactly what Trump wants. It's like bombing villages to get at terrorists. It seems like you're doing something useful, but you're just making things worse.

What kind of loser goes to a political rally? Subsequently, what kind of loser goes to protest a political rally?

So, instead of acting violently when Trump comes to Western Washington, let's all go to his stupid, little events and shut them the *uck down -- peacefully. You know, using good old-fashioned grassroots guerilla theater tactics that mock the bejezzus out of Trump without going violent.

I'm all in favor of freedom of speech, theirs and ours, but let's be clear: appreciating/allowing their speech doesn't mean staying silent in the face of racists, hateful jerk republicans and their standard-carrier.

@15 I am that kind of loser who goes to protest at political rallies. I am angry. I won't be silenced. I'm not rich, can't donate big buck$ to campaigns. But I won't just sit here typing alone while my country embraces fascists. I am the kind of loser who goes to protest political rallies. That's not all I do for social justice, to promote positive social change, but it's part of it. You should go too and help us shut Trump the *uck down -- peacefully. Why would anyone think he is welcome here?

Trump is a showman. He knows that anything that keeps him the topic of conversation and in the forefront of everyone's mind is good for his brand. I suppose this fits that bill.

"There is no such thing as bad publicity except your own obituary."
- Brendan Behan

@16- there is no way to peacefully "shut them down." Either you use coercive force or you let them assemble and speak. Mocking them from the sidelines is fine, but Trump thrives on sharp conflict.

Trump has a 'base' so deranged that NOTHING that can happen wouldn't help with SOME of them, at least.

Of course, we have only snippets reported. I do think the Anti-Trump cause is better served when protestors demonstrate their superiority to Trumpish attitudes and ideas.

Some of the anti-Westboro Baptist demos seem to have found really solid ways to do this. Not that they 'cured' any Phelpses in the process...

Trump isn't the lunatic fringe like Westboro -- he's the GOP mainstream. He could be the next President.

Ignoring him hasn't worked so far.

It's polite and passive-aggressive -- and very Seattle-like -- to avoid confrontation. Absence of confrontation gives the appearance of approval.

Sure, he's a showman, he thrives on attention, he loves publicity, but guess what? He's already bathing in nonstop attention and publicity. It's time the anti-Trump movement commandeered a little attention and publicity.

Sure, he thrives on conflict. He's a sharp-elbowed New York bully. These types never stand down until they are stood up to. Ignoring bullies is exactly what bullies want; it allows them to keep on seeking out weaker, more passive people to push around, to demean and to demagogue over.

I don't know folks. Did the Vietnam War go away because people ignored it? No, it was unjust and brutal and it only stopped because confrontational and non-passive people took to the streets and stood up for what was right. They fought for peace. the keyword there is fought. Many took great risks. At Kent State, a few lost their lives. Standing up against injustice, intolerance and bigotry has never been a spectator activity.

How to put this delicately? For those who are against Trump but think it's best to ignore him, are you sure ignoring him isn't just an excuse for apathy?

@22 "those crazy long hairs" (a.k.a. very unapathetic political activists) in the 60's ushered in significant progress toward Democracy. In addition to being against an unjust war, they helped champion civil rights, voting rights, student rights, women's rights, equal rights, immigrant rights and many other human rights. Right-wing academics try and rewrite history all the time. Some try and make Nixon and Kissinger look like saints. "Those crazy long hairs" called BS on their own government at a time of war. Like Thomas Paine and Nathan Hale before them, the antiwar activists in the 60s were true American heroes.

@24 If I understand you correctly, you are saying that opposition to the Vietnam War prolonged the war. Personally, I think that's nuts. The argument on its surface is not logical, but I would be willing to consider your scholarly sources if you actually have any that are credible.

The main point I was making about opposing Trump is that he is a very real and present danger and ignoring him for fear of giving him more publicity it also nuts.

And just voting to express your political point of view? Please! Look where that got progressives in Bush v. Gore. Just voting and leaving the rest to politicians got us into invading Iraq.

There is a long history in the country of constructive political activism. It's time to channel energy and rise against this reality show neo-fascist.

When he comes to Western Washington, we need to show the world he isn't welcome here.

Abbiehoffman. I'm sure I've heard that name before.
I agree. Not the time to ignore him.
Protest Marches, where many many people turn out and they are peaceful, sure changed stuff in the late 60s-70s. Along with the music. Yeah, where is the music?
Violence will keep people from protesting.
Fascists are taking over your country. It's like a TV character has come to life and people think it's a show.

@26 Where is your proof? What are your sources? Your suggestion is wildly speculative, Orwellian and dangerously revisionist. It would be like saying more black men are killed by police because Black Lives Matter is calling attention to blacks being killed by police. It's like suggesting the movement against Apartheid would have worked faster if everyone would have just stayed home.

Listen, I get that you are worried about "alienating mainstream voters." But, here's a Fox News Flash, mainstream Republicans are already voting for Trump by the 10s of thousands. Mainstream voters need to be shaken from their complacency -- before they start goose-stepping for the Donald. It's not the time to stick our heads in the sand.

@27 Yes, thank you. Love the music. We need to bring back Woodstock!

Here's a real quote from the real AH -- speaking to college students when Reagan was in office. Dated but still relevant: -- "Someday, you just might be able to overcome the cold, dispassionate loneliness of the ice age, technology, in which we find ourselves. And you can say proudly, 'Yah, I'm a worker in Poland fighting for my rights, I am a refugee in Beirut fighting for my homeland, I am a Salvadorian fighting for my life, I am prisoner in Attica fighting for my freedom. At no point since 1968 has there been a moment in recent history when you can play such an important part, a decisive role in history. I urge you to cease the time, to become part of the solution, and not a part of the problem, to try and make the future better tomorrow than it is today and far better than we tried to make it yesterday."

In other words, do anything but sit this one out and stay at home.

Violence give the bigots the high ground.

I agree, being polite with them isn't the answer. They aren't polite to anyone. And lots can be done to disrupt things without resorting to violence. What happened to a good, old fashioned sit in or human chain? Block the entrances, shout over them. But once you resort to violence you lose.

@30 As Howard Zinn said: Civil disobedience isn't the problem; civil obedience is. Look, you have repeatedly posited above that protest movements are less effective than doing nothing. I can't argue with that because it is insane. So, I'm going to go back to planning to give Trump the kind of welcome we gave to Shell's deep sea oil rigs and the WTO.

Shell's deep sea oil rigs and the WTO were not part of our electoral process and were not running for president and were private interests outside our democratic authority.

Protesting Trump is great.

BUT Rioting and "shutting him down" are contrary to the democratic values necessary to have elections. It is a dangerous slippery slope to out and out thuggery.