Just surveyor's marks.
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Is this argument truly just holding together on the assumption that someone, somewhere, sometime will confirm Laughner was influenced by current partisan rhetoric? Or will it be enough to just confirm that he had heard the name Palin or Beck sometime in his life? And don't worry, it won't be difficult to elevate the level of discourse when we're already down here in the deepest fucking bullshit possible.
Add mine to the voices objecting to her photo being in the crosshairs. Not funny right now.
Even this week, Glenn Beck is saying that the death of Palin would bring down the Republic. Rush Limbaugh is accusing the Democrats of supporting the gunman. I know Fox News doesn't care what happens to the US, but there are millions of decent Americans who do. The death of that little girl feels to me like the death of hope for this country. It's just heartbreaking that Fox will take us over the edge for the sake of profits for the military industrial complex. Freedom of the press is the cornerstone of this country, but here it is meeting up with incitement to violence. Boycotts and whines lile Jon Stewart's are not going to fix this crisis.
The Stranger editorial staff should be ashamed of themselves for putting this in print.
Awesome!
@ cliche: this is a once-a-week magazine.
and you seem to be missing the point. it isn't that anyone can prove he was influenced by palin or anyone else. it's that palin and tea party conservatives are defending their actions and seem unwilling to admit that anything they say or do is their responsibility. the point is that there is always someone listening, and always someone who is going to take it too far and there already has been, whether you include loughner in that or not.
instead of saying "how we framed our message in the past was wrong, so let's start a healthy discourse on politics and the upcoming elections" they have all just simply complained about being attacked, trying to pretend they are victims.
Maybe you should read your own drivel once in awhile.
Or do some research. How about the Democrat Leadership Council that used bullseye targets?
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid…
"The heartland strategy begins by choosing likely targets for Democratic gains"
"Behind enemy lines" ...etc.
Or the multitude of tweets calling for the death of Ms. Palin:
http://dailycaller.com/2011/01/12/dozens…
Or calling for the Republican governor in Florida to be put up against a wall and shot:
http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/belt…
"Instead of running for governor of Florida, they ought to have him and shoot him. Put him against the wall and shoot him."
"And by that I mean let's put an article about it on the front page of the ultra liberal Stranger. It's not like this won't be linked to the next round of fundraiser requests from Tea Party central, showing how they need to band together to fight against this liberal smear."
If you think this piece drags down the discourse, then don't read it and don't comment on it.
If you want the political discourse in this country to be something other than what it is, then pay attention to what you think is appropriate and ignore the rest. That's your choice right there.
As for me, as much as I'm uncomfortable with the politicization, no one has proven that Loughner WASN'T motivated by violent right-wing rhetoric.
And how does Palin in the rifle crosshairs do this? I understand it's supposed to be "ironic", but right-wingers, especially the most crazy ones, do not understand irony. They can only see things in one way: everyone who attacks Palin is directly attacking them and that means it's time for all-out war. You shouldn't claim that it's our responsibility to try to ratchet down their psychoses and then simultaneously try to provoke them into a frothing rage with that pic.
http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the…
The left has been advocating (and practicing) political violence for a long, long time. And they're really good at inciting violence, and then pretending they didn't.
Palin's cross-hairs on a map are NOTHING compared to leftist thugs and goons. Lenin didn't get to power by giving out rainbows and unicorns.
Spot on. Great article.
This blog post makes the case nicely: http://shakespearessister.blogspot.com/2…
I'm no fan of Democrats, by the way. I'm disgusted by any political or media figure who acts irresponsibly or dangerously. The focus is all on the Right at the moment because the normally lock-step Republican Party is currently without a strong leader, so the nutcases have grabbed the microphone and there's nobody to put them back in line (which hopefully will be meaningfully resolved by the time they nominate their Prez candidate; it'd be nice to have a return to a moderately intelligent political conversation in this country).
*If there actually is such a thing, of course.
As the folks over at Mother Jones (http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/01/…), Politico (http://www.politico.com/news/stories/011…), The Guardian, (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan…), and the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/10/us/10s…) have reported with ample documentation, Loughner's seemingly incoherent ramblings are anything but for members of the far right conspiracy fringe (the very people to whom sister Sarah and the Beckster are cult heroes).
The thoroughly antigovernment Sovereign Citizens ideology (that the government has been seeking to control the minds of the people since the country's founding and have used instruments like the grammar and phraseology of the Constitution, the public education system, the IRS, the Federal Reserve, and the media at large to accomplish it) seems crazy to normal people, but isn't that far off in tone or substance from the whackier things that Beck and Palin say.
That Beck and Palin feed the crazy by, say, recommending that his viewers read the pamphlet of French anarchist would-be revolutionaries to be prepared, or using gun-related images and rhetoric is grossly irresponsible. The false-equivalency with anything that even the crazies on the left in this country have done or said is preposterous. Code pink doesn't threaten revolution and Dennis Kucinich doesn't support "Second Amendment Remedies" to the Republican Ohio legislature's decision to gerrymander him out of his district (though Republican Nevada Senate candidate - running to actually be a Senator... for real, no joke... - told her supporters that's what they should do if they lost).
Sarah Palin knows what she's done is wrong. And so do her supporters. If they didn't know it, why on earth would they backpedal from the gunsight thing in the first place. Those aren't surveyors marks, and if you want to use gunsights to target your political opponents, and you think that's the kind of thing that fosters healthy debate in this democracy, then have the fucking courage of your convictions. If not, then not only do you want to undermine our political discourse and public safety, but you also want to be free from the consequences of your actions. So much for personal responsibility.
If you still disagree with me, ask yourself one question: Why should we hold Jared Loughner to a higher standard than Sarah Palin?
Republicans hoot and holler and yell and scream nothing but hate speech, but the very SECOND somebody calls them on it they say, "Well, this one really obscure guy on your side said this one minor comment once 5 years ago, so YOU'RE THE BAD GUYS NOT US!!!!! HOW DARE YOU QUESTION ANYTHING WE EVER DOOOOO!??!!?!?"
Gimmie a break. There's never been such a clear line drawn between the sane and the crazy in politics, and I hate to break it to you, Rep's, but you're not on the sane side of the line.
This is true. I think people are always looking for a fight, but they should be looking for sincere debates. The problem is reasoned, researched debates with logical arguments and rebuttals are not compelling to the masses.
My wish is for the politicians in this nation to slow down and listen to each other's views. And everyone needs to use an inside voice.
PS. Stop blanketing all Tea Party supporters with the L cross-hairs, btw. They're not all Aryan Nazis.
I remember the republican's going ape-shit because Clinton lied about the bj from Lewinsky. But they are only much too happy to swallow the lies from Palin. But the one's who are not stupid fall in to lock step with the party talking points because they simply can't admit that what they are supporting is wrong at best and evil to the core.
This picture of Palin that you're publishing is wrong. I really really hope that this isn't the cover of next issue, because you're pushing the boundaries of taste, decency and political speech.
You in the media have the same responsibility that Palin does not to publish stuff like this. It's the same reason people don't tend to publish suicides except in very exceptional circumstances - because people on the edge see it as a message.
You're better than this. I hope.
"And begging for civility out of teabaggers is like trying to convince a treeful of chimpanzees to stop masturbating. "
Two of my favorite lines from this magnificent article.
PALIN, you fucking yeasty used tampon of a person, KEEP TALKING,,, so everyone knows what a fucking EMPTY HEADED cum-dumpster you are.
http://www.PetitionOnline.com/IndictSP/p… which calls for the Dept of Justice to indict Palin for incitement to violence. It has over 4,300 signatures.
If they said it, why can't we?
I wouldn't feel bad if that dumb bitch got capped.
If you want to be pissed about something, how about a lack of mental health care in our culture. Maybe if being "crazy" was actually a condition we showed some compassion for and not one of the first social services to always be cut, there would be fewer incoherant violant people to be wary of.
That said, show me the direct link between Palin's cross-hairs, I mean survey markers, and this psycho opening fire. They found in his safe letters stating that he was upset because he wasn't being heard when he suggested that grammar and currency needed to be changed.
How is that relevant to the cross-hairs map discussing health care reform?
Then to add that image on the front of this article? It's been mentioned in previous comments, why are we, the left, lowering ourselves to Sarah Palin's level? I just assume be the bigger person in this situation.
I'm pretty sure it has already been stated, but the real troubling fact is that all of this violent rhetoric has desensitized us as a nation. Not in the way that folks blame video games and rap music. Rather, while ten years ago, hearing someone discuss killing a member of Congress would be so out of the norm, that any normal person, seeing a crazy make comments to that end, would act.
But it is to the point now where we are so used to hearing violent rhetoric, that it is hard to take anyone seriously when they make comments about actual violence.
And that is just sad.
and yet, I'm reminded of "The World According to Garp", which (like the movie "Network") seems less and less scathing satire and more and more dead-on prophetic.
Irony is lost on lefties, isn't it??
@51 to Descartes: Your ignorance of European history is as boundless as your apparent contempt for American history. Oceans of blood have been spilled in Europe -- past and present. Before you start in with your whining about America and its problems, perhaps you should pass a basic European history class.
His race is important because it's Arizona and he's Hispanic. Arizona has a law that can reasonably be interpreted to mean if someone looks "illegal" (ie, Hispanic), police are required to stop them and ask for ID. It is actually important in the context of the Arizona political scene.
What does Europe's history of violence (five decades old, mostly) have to do with America's rapid slide towards authoritarianism?
Try 3000+ years. Ever open a book?
http://www.27bslash6.com/
cheers!
Now we have a dead 9 year old to look at when we make this shit up and publish it as edgy, hip and post-colonial. Make it up to her and go to lobby Olympia on MLK day.
And just how do you know this 48 hours in exactly? Your vile, repellent article is devoid of any understanding that most likely (note, unlike you a supposed "journalist" I don't speak with absolution and certainty when I don't have it) most likely Lougner is a schizophrenic who has never been treated. Most of the facts that have come out support this.
I really don't give a shit about the fact-free disgusting spew from Palin, Beck and Limabaugh et. al because I expect it from them. But as I've always been a strong supporter of liberal causes, you and your ilk are why I no longer will as I see there isn't much difference in the shameless loose play with reality.
"Do you know what else is a political attack? Sarah Palin...." Yeah, fantastic debate there too asshole. Not much different then when Bush attacked Iraq after 9/11 right? They didn't attack on that day--Hussein was a real bad guy but come on, let's go to war with him! See where I'm coming from? Probably not because you already have figured out what happened. Not much different to me.
"he had complained to friends that she didn't live up to his expectations" that's pretty strong investigative work there. Can't wait for more fine work from you.
And just how do you know this 48 hours in exactly? Your vile, repellent article is devoid of any understanding that most likely (note, unlike you a supposed "journalist" I don't speak with absolution and certainty when I don't have it) most likely Lougner is a schizophrenic who has never been treated. Most of the facts that have come out support this.
I really don't give a shit about the fact-free disgusting spew from Palin, Beck and Limabaugh et. al because I expect it from them. But as I've always been a strong supporter of liberal causes, you and your ilk are why I no longer will as I see there isn't much difference in the shameless loose play with reality.
"Do you know what else is a political attack? Sarah Palin...." Yeah, fantastic debate there too asshole. Not much different then when Bush attacked Iraq after 9/11 right? They didn't attack on that day--Hussein was a real bad guy but come on, let's go to war with him! See where I'm coming from? Probably not because you already have figured out what happened. Not much different to me.
"he had complained to friends that she didn't live up to his expectations" that's pretty strong investigative work there. Can't wait for more fine work from you.
To those here in the comments (and elsewhere, I suppose) calling for Sarah Palin's murder, I would ask that they first really think about the repercussions of such an event. We don't want Sarah Palin murdered. Setting aside of course the fact that no decent person should say such and mean it, that would make her a martyr that people could rally behind. The conservatives in this country already venerate Reagan as the president who could do no wrong. Do you want Sarah Palin idolized in much the same way?
No, I think her living to a ripe old age and having to live with having been Sarah Palin is far crueler. When she's telling her great-great grandchildren (and it looks like she may actually live to see them, if the family trend continues), it will be that much sadder, coming from the bitter, wretched husk she will no doubt become. The tragic story of the most mocked and most hated beauty queen/college dropout/politician/hockey mom/pit bull/trend-setter/author/pundit/"reality" TV star/mama grizzly/has-been that you ever heard. And she would be more than happy to share the story with you any time you meet her at the old folks' home. She doesn't get any visitors anymore.
BTW, those are not crosshairs or surveyor's marks. They are badly done symbols of the BMW! Everyone knows that liberals drink chablis and drive beemers...right?
You're a hypocrite and an idiot. The Left has engaged in as much *or more* violent imagery and actual physical violence as the right. Just take a scroll through this page: http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the…
And then repeat what you just said to yourself in a mirror.
"She deserves it." She deserves what? To be shot? Pot to Kettle: You Are Black.
Here's my issue. With both parties I catch shit for having views that aren't in lockstep with the entire platform, ergo I don't consider myself to be either Democrat or Republican. Initially I liked the idea of the Tea Party until it was apparently hijacked by the GOP and subsequently marginalized if not outright derided by the Democratic contingent.
But I digress. The issue here is with a psychopathic murderer. While we are trying to pigeonhole him into the Republican camp maybe we should also say that since hs is a white male, his actions represent the ideals of all white males, Or maybe all twenty year olds, or maybe everyone in Arizona. The fact is he acted apparently alone and of his own volition and *that* is what needs to stand before the court.
Ignorant and clueless is not a great way to run a paper.
Good for me, because I know what a rag it is, but to your readers...a disservice.
Stupid mother fucker.
Osage
I DO NOT like Sarah Palin, Sam-I-Am, but I would neither shoot her nor vote for her (yeah, RIGHT!)
Has the entire universe gone nuts???
R.I.P. Common Sense.
The only thing to add is a shout out to all the gun toating monkeys out there. If packing armor makes the world safer then why didn't you shoot the MFB? Leave your guns at home boy. Don't take your guns to town. :(
To use speech which by allegory, metaphor or outright hateful bigoted words on the public media carries with it the responsibility of free speech to not yell "Fire", it's not there to exploit an agenda, the guy wanting to burn the Koran in public is another example of where to draw the line, "cross-hairs" is over the line, except to tyrants and totalitarians ... I have a new campaign slogan for sweetie Sarah: Prison for Paulin!
The Palin pic is inexcusable. Period.
If she was shot today, would you run an apology for it? Maybe the media should take on more responsibility than Sarah.
Maybe that is also how crazies see gun scopes on photos. They may not be intended to incite violence, but if that's how they are defined....
99.9 percent of the world would agree.... those are crosshairs. .01 are surveyors.