Features Mar 5, 2014 at 4:00 am

Why Is Seattle Such a Black Hole?

Kelly O

Comments

111
Araucania,

The facts all all there in the FBI data you provided. If you take into consideration the small percentage of the black population (13 -15%) when reading that data you can understand the crime level being committed by the black American population. I'm sorry you don't like it but facts are not racist, they don't have feelings or opinions. Unlike you who is void of logic and completely controlled by emotions to the point of blindness you can't interpret your own data.
112
Aracania,

Because of people like you who deny the problem of crime in the black community and shift the blame to others, therefore perpetuating the victim status of a culture and a people, the problem will never be solved as anyone who acknowledges it will be labeled as a racist an shunned from social circles. Like I said before, at the end of the day, it's up to the black community to tackle this and lift themselves out of the situation, no one can do it for them. Otherwise it will just keep going as it has been. 1st acknowledge there is a problem, then you can take steps to deal with it. It's no ones problem but the black community. If you use logic and not emotions to control your mind it's easy to see the issue and work towards a goal.
113
Why is it every time theres a child molester or cereal killer it's always a Caucasian male?
114
@113

Because you watch a lot of tv and movies.
115
1.Be Aracania, post data to prove that whites commit more crime then black.

2.Be Aracania, backtrack on the data that you posted, calling it 'racist data' once it has been proven to show a higher percent of crime activity in black community.

3. Be Aracania, attack the character of any poster who correctly interprets data calling them a racist.

4. Be Aracania, in last desperate attempt, post several articles from the media showing opinions and emotions and present them as solid facts. Anyone who denies these opinions from the media are 'racists'.
116
#113, because Caucasians love Lucky Charms & Captain Crunch.
117
@79 "Meanwhile black on white crime is an issue no one wants to talk about."

lmgtfy.com/?q=black+on+white+crime

Strangely, that seems to be something that a whole mess of people want to bring up, but I think you may be correct that they don't actually want to talk about it.

For instance, we know that black on white crime is punished the most harshly throughout our justice system, and yet you keep asserting that these crimes continue to happen at a higher rate; that would seem to disprove the deterrent or retributive effects of our system of punishment, correct? So, what criminal justice policy changes are you recommending?
118
@65 "please point out ANY [emphasis mine] of 'those laws' enacted in the 60s which have been 99% overturned and I will begin to consider the rest of what you wrote."

I am sorry that I don't see any evidence that you have actually considered anything that's been written.

Could you please describe what steps you've taken to meet this pledge so that we can continue to act as if you are speaking the truth as you understand it?
119
@112

You are jumping subjects like a leapfrog.

WHAT CONCERN IS IT of yours about crime in the black community? Per capita, there is JUST AS MUCH crime in the white community. Why arent you as concerned about that? As I already revealed (and you ignored), 98% of all crime is intra racial. So your little special focus on black crime serves nothing but to reveal your actual motivation. To inspire HATE and FEAR.

You are trying really hard and failing to create a narrative of justification for HATE of black people.

You claimed most crime was black. I proved you wrong. You claimed blacks dont face discrimination in employment and the justice system. I proved you wrong. You claimed black on white crime was common, I not only proved you wrong but revealed the opposite was more true statistically.

THEN you had the nerve to say "statistic and facts dont matter, what matters is white people are afraid of black people". When I shot down the logic of that, you finally rest on "why arent you concerned about crime in the black community".

How many justifications for HATE must I shut down? Youve shown, in every claim that you made to which I revealed was based on false presumption, youll just jump to something else.

What black man stole your mommy from your daddy that got you up in such a racist rage twist that you would deny every fact presented to you, change subject every time you were proven wrong or shown to have lied, that you STILL engage in this?
120
@112

Oh and did I mention you have yet to post a single link sourcing your claims, even though Ive now provided 10 for 9 different subjects you argued to show you were lying?
121
Araucania,

I don't have to post any links, you have been doing it for me.
122
When and how did juche go from making crazy racist statements to making crazy sexist statements? I completely missed the pivot.
123
@121

My links prove MY point. You keep switching to proportionality, even after I gave you no less than 3 links showing that offense race are roughly equal in proportion, its enforcement that varies. Enforcement invalidates proportion arguments, as with the drug disparity example (most users and sellers are white, most arrested and sentences are black or brown).

You keep ignoring this. What happened to you that you would hold such hate and rage against black people so close that you ignore all counter evidence and make up new excuses as you go?

@122

Yea, he did that a while back. Dont forget his homophobic comments earlier either.
124
@123 I see that now. I had sort of glazed over when I read his preposterous post about white genocide (in which the word genocide appears to be used as a verb).

And all this "aww shucks, I'm just an old-fashioned guy" schtick is insufferable. The fact that small-minded bigotry has a long history does not make it any more palatable.
125
'Enforcement invalidates proportion arguments' Can you prove it? Or just because you say so?

Most users and sellers are white because 73% of the population is white.

Your links, first the hard data from FBI proved that proportionately, there is higher crime in black communities, why can't you just accept this?

Your other links are opinions and feelings media. No one cares about feelings.

Go ahead and keep screaming racist! Homophobe! And whatever else you can think of to try and hide the fact that your argument can't hold water. All you want to do is make excuses for bad behaviors, shame on you, you are part of the problem.
126
Your trying to perform mental gymnastics just to avoid the simple fact that crime is an issue in the black community. Blaming others hasn't helped the black community so far, I wonder why you think it will help now?
127
@126 @65 "Your trying to perform mental gymnastics"

Perhaps because you, sir, are not?
128
@125:

I proved it three times with 3 different links that you STILL refuse to read. The UW/SU law academic study, and the sentencing project reports.

If you arent going to read my sources, why keep asking for sources?

At first I had you pegged as your typical cognitive dissonance racist troll. Now, I know you are just the run of the mill attention troll; seeing how you respond:

"make claim > :claim countered: > beg source > :countersource given: > ignore countersource and change subject > :new subject countered: > beg new source > etc"

You are basically just here to talk shit and not really argue. Another few posts and youll be crying and whining about the sky falling.

If you are going to make a claim, dont run when it gets shut down. If you are going to ask for sources, YOU BETTER DAMN WELL READ THEM before asking for them again/asking for new ones.
129
Also to repeat what I said earlier, that you conveniently ignored:

"WHAT CONCERN IS IT of yours about crime in the black community? Per capita, there is JUST AS MUCH crime in the white community. Why arent you as concerned about that? As I already revealed (and you ignored), 98% of all crime is intra racial. So your little special focus on black crime serves nothing but to reveal your actual motivation. To inspire HATE and FEAR.

You are trying really hard and failing to create a narrative of justification for HATE of black people.

You claimed most crime was black. I proved you wrong. You claimed blacks dont face discrimination in employment and the justice system. I proved you wrong. You claimed black on white crime was common, I not only proved you wrong but revealed the opposite was more true statistically."
130
Wow. Lots of comments of crazy. Kinda proves Danielle's point. On many levels.

White man's burden lives to see another day.
131
Five Ways to Make the City Better for People of Color
Why Is Seattle Such a Black Hole?

"Why Is Seattle Such a Black Hole?"

Worst...metahpor...EVER.
132
What is it with you people that think every time you post a link to someone's opinion or published story that somehow makes it an undeniable fact? Your link to the crosscut article is just the authors opinion on a subject, he is a journalist. Someone did a study on the subject of race and prison time and he wrote about it in his article, its his job to create a story and he did. He does not prove anything. His whole point, as he said is that 'race MAY subconsciously play into the decisions' he is talking about judges giving more times to non-whites. As the article states there are many factors to consider, one of those factors not mentioned is the criminal records of the said offender, obviously if a criminal is being tried for a crime and has a prior history he is going to get more time an we know from the FBI data that you so proudly displayed that criminal convictions in the black community are high, so Im not surprised to see that they are getting more time. If I was a judge, I would give longer sentence to someone with more criminal history. no brainer.

The UW study you keep talking about I cant find a link to, only that you claim it exists and proves without a doubt, just like everything you link to, that black people dont commit more crimes than white people. I guess I will have to say it again about the FBI data you posted. Look at it again and keep in mind that blacks are 13-15% of the population, whites are around 73% see how many crimes blacks commit even though their numbers are small, thats pretty impressive. 4000 murder arrests in one year from a population that only makes up 13-15%.... damn. **Who killed that guy? not a black man, he was framed by evil whitey**, is that what you are telling us??
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri…
133
#21
"In 1999 when the Makah were successful in hunting a grey whale, I saw exactly what Seattle was made of: Liberal hippy fucking racist bags of shit. And it hasn't changed."

THIS.
134
BTW sloggers, where's that beautiful mural of Dr Martin L King Jr? By the tone of these posts, too bad we can't take a collective bong hit and chill out. Or hug our neighbor. Or something else that's genuinely productive. Which was the whole point of this article.
135
Araucania,

Murder arrests in one year: blacks 4,149 / whites 4,000

Percentage of population: blacks 13-15% / whites 73%

Given the small population of black people in the United States, there is an unusually high number of murders and crime in general as shown in the FBI data you originally linked to. Explain how black people were framed by evil whitey for 4000 murder arrests in one year.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri…
136
Araucania,

You tin hat conspiracy theorists are a real piece of work. There is no conspiracy today to blame black people for crimes they did not commit. African Americans are more likely to commit crime then any other race in the United States, more likely to commit murder, rape, robbery as proven by your FBI data. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri… It's impossible to do anything to address this problem if people continue to pretend it doesn't exist. Judges and law enforcement officials are smarter then you and know how to do their jobs better than you do, that is why there are high numbers of arrests and convictions of crimes to African Americans. It's called justice. What should we do just eliminate the entire justice system because it's hurting some peoples feelings? Get real, no one cares about feelings or opinions. Facts and logic rule. You do the crime you pay the time. End of story.
137
#3 nailed it.

Short changed at home, where it all begins.

Stop having so many fucking kids. Jesus.
138
@136 @98 @56 "There is no conspiracy today to blame black people for crimes they did not commit."

You keep arguing against documented systemic discrimination as if it were the same thing as a conspiracy, and then blithely stating one does not exist. If you can not accept that these are fundamentally different propositions, feel free to actually prove that there is no conspiracy.

Show your work.
139
@138

I already explained why the opinions published in the media that araucania referenced are only opinions and not facts. Why don't you read them and explain to me what they undeniably prove? The author of crosscut never claims that there is fact in anything he wrote, he only presented a study, wrote about it and left the conclusions to the interpretation of the reader.

The other UW study that araucania referenced I can't find the link to it.

The FBI data that araucania originally posted still remains and is not an opinion or a media headline. It's just facts on crime and I stand by it until someone disproves me with hard evidence instead of opinion stories published in the media on studies that the author did not even perform himself.

140
@probably wasting your time

I already explained most of this in #132

I've already said everything I need to. All the references I needed were already provided by araucania's posts or the links that she made. I'm not interested in rehashing the same content over and over again. I agree to respectfully disagree with you all. This is a stranger blog after all. I didn't expect much.
141
I don't care if every OPINON publication in the world, tv and Hollywood movie in the entire the world portrays black people as the innocent victims of crimes that they did not commit. I am going to stick by the raw data published by the FBI that was referenced in the posts above if I want the truth.

**The media will sell any story that attracts the attention of an audience regardless of whether or not the content is true or false it does not care, it is there to attract attention to justify advertisement revenue, it is a business and should not be treated as an education system.** The media is a profit machine and could not care less if it causes a disservice to the community by publishing destructive lies.

The published FBI data is not gaining profit by publishing the facts as they are. It does not care about a controversial story, gaining readers or ad revenue..
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri…

142
This from the stranger:

The Stranger Reaches...
Stranger readers are affluent urbanites in their 20s 30s WITH IMPRESSIVE DISPOSABLE INCOMES and an appetite for everything the city has to offer. They see more live shows and movies, eat out and shop more, and spend more time online than readers of any other paper in town. Advertising in The Stranger cuts through the clutter to target Seattle's most active consumers. And now, with The Stranger's combined print and online readership, your ad will be seen by more people than ever!

http://post.thestranger.com/seattle/AdIn…
143
It's racist to read the FBI data. And this is compounded by the fact that the data itself is racist.

144
@135

Did you not just see the 4 fucking articles I posted showing that BLACKS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE ARRESTED than whites when under arrestable circumstances?

Cop encounters black guy in situation A = will likely arrest.

Cop encounters white guy in situation A (same situation) = Less likely to arrest.

How is this not sinking in?

http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/03/02/us-dr…

http://crosscut.com/2011/12/21/washingto…

Also, you arent even using the fbi link correctly for your argument. Dont forget I gave you that link btw...youve yet to provide a link to anything youve claimed.
145
@139 @136 @98 @56 That is an impressive array of sentences; it is a shame that none of them actually address my question.

Again, when people point out documented, systemic discrimination, you attempt to counter that claim by stating that there is no conspiracy.

I've asked for you to acknowledge that those are not diametrically opposed propositions, but said I'd settle for you simply proving there is no conspiracy.
146
@144

Again you just parrot opinions in the media and display them as undeniable facts that your claims are true. By your logic if any opinion is on tv or in print then it must be true. Why am I not using the FBI data correctly? Can you do math at all? Am I talking to a special needs individual? http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri…

Blacks are 13-15% of the population and white is 73% read the FBI data if you have any reading comprehension. There is no way that black people were framed for 4149 murders in one year even though they only made up 13-15% of the overall population. Whites represented 73% of the population and had 4000 arrests for murder in the same year. This is just one small part of the FBI data that showS an unfortunate truth for you. By your logic and reasoning it is impossible for black people to commit any crime, justice should be given up altogether.

You are the David Icke tin hat conspiracy theorist for black people. If spike lee makes a movie about his opinion that black people are the perpetual victims of the world and should never be held accountable for their actions, does that mean it is undeniable truth? Am I suppose to ignore the raw data from the FBI which is NOT in the entertainment business or trying to make money with a story?
147
If we can't give our advice to POC, can we also not give our tax dollars? Because that's what you really want, our money but then to shut the fuck up.
148
@147 Are you aware of just how much money you have to pay in taxes before you're paying for anyone beyond your immediate household? Are you sure you make the cut?

Also, have you considered the possibility that maybe that your supposed problem isn't people of color? Perhaps your advice isn't worthy airing. Is it possible that you're just someone who should, by and large, just shut the fuck up?
149
@146

AGAIN, you are arguing proportionality, when I gave no less than THREE LINKS showing

1- The proportionality as judged the end stage (arrests, incarceration) is flawed, because police make the decision to arrest people more often if they are black.

http://faculty.washington.edu/kbeckett/a…

2- Black people are more likely to be arrested than whites for the same crimes, more likely to be convicted, and will receive longer sentences when convicted. For the SAME CRIMES.

Proportionality has nothing to do with it. White guy does X crime, he gets a year. Black guy does the same crime, he gets 3. How does proportionality figure into that?

Hence, most drug users and dealers in WA and Seattle are white, yet most arrested and profiled for drug use or dealing are black.

http://crosscut.com/2011/12/21/washingto…

3- There is NO correction between RACE and PROPENSITY for criminal offending Washington State or in America. Period.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2009/03/02/us-dr…

http://crosscut.com/2011/12/21/washingto…
(quoted in this article)

So again, wth are you even arguing?

150
@146

So lets narrow down where we are

Juche says black people arent discriminated against

Gets proven wrong

juche says black people commit most crime

gets proven wrong

juche says black people commit most rapes

gets proven wrong

juche says the real problem is black on white crime

given link showing 98% of all crime is intraracial, same victim and offender race.

juche says the US has the most protections against discrimination for racial minorities. As proof posts wiki articles on the word 'discrimination' and a short wiki list of gender/religion/age/disability/nationality/sexual orientation/race.

gets it explained to him that all of those categories are not 'racial'.

juche claims facts are irrelevant and statistics dont matter

gets called an idiot and a troll

juche uses an FBI UCR link given to him earlier to disprove a LIE he previously made to argue propensity with race

redirected to 3 different links showing criminal propensity and race do not tie. Also given link showing differentiation of police enforcement prevents direct ties of arrest and incarceration rates to actual offense rates.

juche ignores and going on ad hominem streak. Brings up murders the ONLY category with larger rate of black offenses (nevermind they account of .0002% of all known crime by his own link*

Poor poor juche. This has been enlightening though. There was once a time I thought most hardcore hatemongers were just demented, short minded ragaholics. Youve shown me you guys are just morons, incapable of absorbing information that runs counter to your self indulgent, anti-social beliefs. The very definition of Fanons cognitive dissonance.

And for that, Im a little bit happier after this exchange. Thank you juche.
151
@149

You have not proved anything yet.
152
You are precisely why there is such a problem araucania, unwilling to listen to someone else because you think you're the only one that has faced racism and you are unwilling to admit that racism is alive and well within the black community, the fact that you automatically dismiss my claims based on the fact that I am white shows how racist you are. You truly do have the mindset of a racist, someone makes a quite vaild claim and you automatically attack the character of the person making it solely based on the fact that he is of a different race.
You are the definition of a hypocrite.
I know, I know I'm evil because I called you out and black people have never done anything but try to make the world a better place but haven't been able to succeeded because of evil programs like affirmative action put into place by the man.

153
Your links to OPINON media and thought provoking studies by UW students have not proved a single thing so far except that you are desperately trying to hold on to any excuse you can find for bad behaviors in the black community. Anything that would help to face the problem, take responsibility for actions and work toward a goal is completely unacceptable to you. The only solution for you is to blame others. Your solution to blame others was not invented by you, it was started some time ago and has not helped the black community to improve its situation so far so I wonder why you think it will help now?

By your logic people don't need to take responsibility for actions, we can always blame someone else and never seek self improvement. By your logic there is no way that any justice or law enforcement can be carried out in the black community. You will degenerate the United States into something resembling martial law under the Marcos period in the Philippines.
154
" Are you aware of just how much money you have to pay in taxes before you're paying for anyone beyond your immediate household? Are you sure you make the cut?"

I wish I was a member of the 47% who contribute squat but I'm not.

So mug me and then demand I don't complain.
155
"cereal killer it's always a Caucasian "

Captain Crunch?
156
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri…

"juche ignores and going on ad hominem streak. Brings up murders the ONLY category with larger rate of black offenses (nevermind they account of .0002% of all known crime by his own link*"

Araucania, my dear,

Almost every catergory in the FBI data is a bad reflection on the black community considering they only make up 13-15% of the population and whites make up 73%

Im sorry to keep bringing it up but it seems you dont have the mind to fathom numbers and percentages, however you have a very strong mind to blame others and ignore problems.
157
Araucania, what are you talking about?

"nevermind they account of .0002% of all known crime by his own link*"
158
So lets narrow down where we are

Juche says black people arent discriminated against

Gets proven wrong

WHERE?

juche says black people commit most crime

gets proven wrong

WHERE?

juche says black people commit most rapes

gets proven wrong

THE FBI DATA SAYS OTHERWISE, IF YOU CAN DO MATH.

juche says the real problem is black on white crime

NEVER SAID ITS THE REAL PROBLEM, ONLY THAT NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT.

given link showing 98% of all crime is intraracial, same victim and offender race.

HAVE NOT SEEN YOUR LINK YET, WHERE IS IT ANYWAY?

juche says the US has the most protections against discrimination for racial minorities. As proof posts wiki articles on the word 'discrimination' and a short wiki list of gender/religion/age/disability/nationality/sexual orientation/race.

THE UNITED STATES HAS MORE LAWS PROTECTING MINORITIES THAN ANY OTHER NATION, YOU HAVE NOT PROVEN THIS WRONG YET.

gets it explained to him that all of those categories are not 'racial'.

juche claims facts are irrelevant and statistics dont matter

WHERE?

gets called an idiot and a troll

SO?

juche uses an FBI UCR link given to him earlier to disprove a LIE he previously made to argue propensity with race

HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU MEAN.

redirected to 3 different links showing criminal propensity and race do not tie. Also given link showing differentiation of police enforcement prevents direct ties of arrest and incarceration rates to actual offense rates.

AND THANKS FOR THE LINKS TO OPINON COLUMNS BUT THEY DIDNT PROVE ANYTHING.
160
araucania,

Per cent simply means 'per hundred'. The symbol 25% is read 'twenty-five per cent' and simply means 25 out of 100.

Black people make up 13-15% of the population, white people make up 73%

13 goes into 73 about 5.6 times.

total crime numbers by white population 6,578,133
total crime numbers by black population 2,697,539

Black crime is roughly half of what white crime is but makes up 5.6 times less of the population of the white community.

Black people are roughly 4 times more likely to commit crime than white people. Its just data, sorry if you dont like it.

Please dont chimp out, dont disconnect your brain with racial pride, try to show responsibility and crusade against crime.

161
@154 How big of a dumb ass do you have to be to make an argument predicated on the idea that income tax is the only tax, in a state with no income tax?

(I acknowledge that the above question pretty much has to be rhetorical, but feel free to respond so we can at least get a baseline based on how stupid you are.)
162
@158 "NEVER SAID ITS THE REAL PROBLEM, ONLY THAT NO ONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT IT."

If I concede the two points in your quote there, will you actually discuss it?

@117 @79
163
Araucania,

Here is just another small sample of what your FBI data has to say about black crime. http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri…

Blacks are 4 times more likely to rape than whites are
5.5 times more likely to murder
8 times more likely to do a robbery

The data table has a very long list of crime numbers, hardly any of them reflect well on the black community. As you get into crime by people under 18 years old (table 43B) it just gets worse for blacks, not a little worse but a lot worse.
164
Why not mention all the nigger drones that perpetuate stereo types in the city. As an educated, "fashion-forward" black women, I have gotten more stares and harassment from black people while doing normal things... like sitting in the sun reading the newspaper or a book, admiring street art or riding my bike. Ignorant whites get a pass for being inappropriate but black people have no excuse. It does not take money to raise your children to behave properly. What happen to the good old days, when black youth cared about their public persona being seen as affluent and intellectual?
Seattle's cult mentality and extreme insecurity (in general, not just whites) cause people to want to place others in boxes and judge those outside their boxes limited perception.
165
Araucania,

Debunking the points you have made:

Looking At the FBI crime data http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cri… and remembering the numbers: black 13-15% of population and white 73%

I'm really not surprised that the white lady clutched her purse as you walked by.

I'm not surprised that a police officer would pay more attention to the activity of a black man under 18 years old then.. say.. a white woman in her 50s.

Or that a judge would give more time to a criminal that is more likely to re-commit a crime.

Or that black people get arrested more for drug charges.

Here is a hint.. The best way to reduce crime numbers is to stop doing crime.

The solution to fix crime that you are pushing for is to remove black people entirely from the criminal justice system. Don't arrest, convict or penalize if a person has black skin.

By your logic:

Black crime does not exist because some people in the media who are getting paid to create an attention grabbing story said so.

Black crime does not exist because a human rights organization said so, even though their pay checks are dependent on sustaining a crisis. Does it surprise anyone that a human rights organization can also be a private business, tax shelter or political deal making machine?
166
Justaperson,

Can you explain what you said?

"Ignorant whites get a pass for being inappropriate but black people have no excuse."

I'm confused by it. Thanks :)
167
Thank you Ms. Henderson. This is perfect and I have reposted it not to the choir but to the folks who need some edumacation.
168
Amerika was founded on racism:you crush racism,you destroy Amerika.Don't kid yourself. http://www.akpress.org
169
@juche:your definition of "crime" is sooo racist:what about KKKorporate Welfare?Redlining?Forcing Persons of Color to live apart from each other ?(so as to prevent consolidation of voting power).Grandfather clause?Sundown towning?Restrictive covenanting?Most Blacks who were slaves here were born here,not Africa,and they began to work at the age of four at the latest,and they worked on average of sixty hours per week,every damn week:where's all that money?Environmental racism?Your race brought them here,not to "be all they can be",but to be exploited as long as they are here. --- http://www.blackagendareport.com , http://www.noi.org
170
USA = Socialism for ENOUGH Whites:if not,then there'd be a revolution starting withing a fucking HOUR from now.(Racial Wealth Gap,anybody?Pfft!!! ---- http://www.inequality.org ).
171
@168

The world is racist.

Be white and move to any non-white country therefore becoming a minority, see how many special considerations or negative pre-judgements based on the color of your skin are made. There will be no affirmative action laws, minority protections from hate crimes or NAACP to look out for you.

It's funny when white liberals pretend they are smart by insisting that race does not exist. The rest of the world has enough wisdom to know better.
172
@169

Guess who else was involved in the slave trade besides white Christians? Jews, higher classed African tribes and Arabs.

I'm with you that free slave labor helped the American economy, mostly for rich, established white families in the south which made up for some of the white population at that time, but the majority of white Americans today are not descended from slave owners. Historians agree that less than 1 million people immigrated to the USA between the 17th and 18th century, gradual increase begins around 1840, the largest immigration of white people to the USA (30million) came to America between 1850 and 1914, (Slavery abolished in 1865) the majority of them poor laboring refugees who were born into generational surfdom in Europe and Russia which is much like slavery. They came here in mass not as rich people but as refugees escaping poverty, the rise of the red army and other terrible conditions. They came here seeking a better life and they had to work for whatever they got, they were not slave owners.

You guys think the entertainment industry is also the education industry and cling to theatrical movies like 12 years a slave and Django unchained.

173
This article pisses me off, not because it's poorly written or wrong, but because I see this all the goddamn time. I'm a young white man living two blocks from Garfield high school, and I hear this stupid, racist bullshit way more often than I did back where I came from. I know it's a free country and you're allowed to be as stupid and ignorant and loud as you want, but the fact that you make people in my community uncomfortable makes me want to brick you in the fucking mouth. And the fact that just because there are racist pricks out there who I share a skin color with makes me look bad pisses me off.

Sorry, this was ranty. Yes. Seattle is a shockingly racist city. I thought better of it before I moved here. I still love this town, but we need to sort this shit out.
174
Good grief people - some of you need to get out and travel the world a little more. America is one of the least racist countries in the world!

America, is, and always has been a melting pot. Even when the Irish and Italians first came to America, they were discriminated against. Guess what? Eventually, they integrated with society.

Think America is racist? Go spend some time in Asia.

Even though Europe is supposedly the model for social equality, I never heard some much racism coming out of people's mouth whens I was in England. Hell, people in London talk trash about their neighbors the Welsh and the Irish!

You know what the number one predictor of poverty is? Single parent families. The number of black children born in wedlock is currently 72 percent! Yet I never hear discussion on how fix this root cause of poverty in any of those social inequality discussions.

The other issue is that blacks only make up around 14% of the population but are responsible for half of the murders. This is mostly black-on-black violence. Am I supposed to believe that whitey is framing these people for murder?

These are some serious issues that the black community has to address head on and stop playing the victim. Harping on nonsense like "white privilege" does nothing to help your cause, incites hate towards whites and actually turns the people that could help you against you.

Why don't we see these same issues with Asians and Hispanics? Starting a new life in a country with no connections or government assistance while speaking a foreign language isn't easy!

That being said, it's time to decriminalize drugs. So many poor young men fall into this trap, get a record and then they are screwed for life.
175
Actually you dont need to test into AP programs, all you need to do at many school, such as Garfield, is a willingness to do the work.
APP and AP are completely different things.
176
I know this is comment number 176, so anyone reading it needs a life, so I guess I need a life too because I have time to write these words. Not the words coming up, just the words I've written up till now. (including "up to now"), and the words, "including up to now" (in parenthesis) Intended words: THERE ARE WAAAY TOOOO many white dudes with dreads out there doing exactly what the article was talking about!!!
177
Slavery abolished in 1865. If an African American person today is 35 years old, they could easily be separated from slavery by 7 or more generations.

"Your definition of crime is racist" Media voices like the stranger would love to continue to blame things like high black crime rates on white people but how are whites suppose to change it?

The inability of white people to change the black community is painfully apperant over the course of history, no matter how much responsibility and blame is placed on white people to make life better for black people It's up to individuals to take responsibility for their own actions and change their own lives, all the tools to do this are freely available to anyone. No one can do it for them just as whites can not change high black crime rates by making it 'racist' to arrest black people.

Slavery has passed by over 7 generations, do you know how much people can change over 7 generations? How much do you have in common with your ancestors passed by 7 generations?

If things continue this way as it has been, in 300 years from now people will still be blaming high black crime rates on white people because of slavery that happened 465 years ago.

178
^ the same thing applies to low test scores or AP placement. It is not "racist" for black people to have low test scores or placement in AP programs, as the author Danielle Henderson suggests in paragraph 6 in her piece of garbage opinion article which SHOULD be titled "how non-colored people can change people of color".
179
@177 Back when you raised this argument @48, juche, you seemed to acknowledge that there were a few things that may have impeded black progress since the end of slavery; if things continue this way as it has been, in 100 posts from not, you'll be arguing that black people have been in the Americas since at least 1502 and it is an unholy blight on their character that they haven't pulled themselves up by their bootstraps since then.

Also, revisit #96, etc.

@178 There are numerous studies and work being done in the testing community around the fact that there is racial bias in the SAT and other tests. Have you given any thought to my suggestions (#105, #118) that you stop holding such ill-informed opinions?
180
@179

Explain how an SAT test can have a racial bias.

I'm pretty sure your solution is lowering test standards just to make sure that tests are not "racist". Great idea, he American public education system is already the laughing stock of most the world, why not continue to lower the bar?
181
Just a thought on black crime..

People like Araucania insist that the only reason black crime numbers are so high is because they are being accused of crimes they did not commit by a systematic racial conspiracy against them.. Consider what happens in the black part of town when this type of thinking is wide spread and accepted as fact, police will avoid that black neighborhood altogether and leave them to their own devices as they are incapable to carry out justice without being tried as a racist by the NAACP, the result is that when an outsider sees a black neighborhood it appears as though it is another third world country or suffering from some apartheid against them by the white community. For a black person, seeing this difference between their own black neighborhood and the white one across the way only galvanizes what they have heard, that evil whitey is purposely keeping him / her in a state of perpetual slavery.
182
@179

Injustices can and do happen to black people, just as they can happen to all peoples. It rains on everyone in planet earth. Most of the people who work in the education and criminal justice system are just normal people like you and me who want to do their jobs well and go home at the end of the day. They are not interested in creating "racist" SAT tests or making "racist" arrests, convictions or sentences.
183
No, Seattle is not racist..it just has the same percentage of morons, sociopaths, etc...as any other major city. The problem here is that the author somehow got it into her head that folks around here are "better" than people in other parts of the US...like Georgia, Texas, etc...

She's aghast and demoralized to find IT AIN'T SO! People around here are just the same as anywhere else. Reality really shakes some people to the core.
184
@180 "Explain how an SAT test can have a racial bias."

lmgtfy.com/?q=SAT+racial+bias

Some of it should be pretty easy to see, for instance, each of the words "regata", "cotillion" and "quinceanera", would favor certain groups over others for natural affinity. (Although as almost any debutante can tell you, that third one wasn't on their SAT).

Further, the SAT tests questions before using them for scoring, and only uses questions that statistically fall within established scoring patterns, such that they have a history of rejecting questions where black students out performed their current deficit compared to white students.

You can see how this might work similarly with reading comprehension questions, with a topic like Benjamin Banneker failing, or how you keep turning systemic bias into active conspiracy no matter how it has been written in this thread.

Math should be better, but word problems and written instructions can have the same effect.

Mind you, this is not the only way we fail black students, but this is an issue that does put black people at a significant disadvantage, the sum of such can explain various short falls on several metrics.

@180 You're making three extraordinary claims there with no attribution and only emotion to back them up.

1) That there is not now, nor has there been since slavery ended, any significant or coordinated efforts to actively damage black people.

Anyone who presenting this as true historically is simply not dealing with established facts; the only possibly tenable argument is that it is no longer significant or effective.

2) That only by conscious effort can anyone disadvantage a minority.

You said @165 that it should be expected and accepted for white people to clutch their purses when black people are around, but seem unwilling to acknowledge that when that translates into a smaller likelihood of hiring, renting to, or what you have you, that such is a serious disadvantage economically.

3) That the only difficulties that black people could encounter at a greater rate than other people are driven by individual actions, and not the way the system is designed and implemented.

This could be anything from the FHA and VA adopting rules that kept black servicemen from receiving the same benefits as their fellow WWII veterans, to harsher sentencing guidelines for crack cocaine compared to powdered given socio-economic proclivities, to removing early voting days that were used in higher concentration by black voters or anything else that with intention or not, simply stacks the deck against black people. There is a lot of this in America and it seems that you are being purposefully obtuse here.
185
Oops! That should have been:

@182 You're making three extraordinary claims there with no attribution and only emotion to back them up.

1) That there is not now, nor has there been since slavery ended, any significant or coordinated efforts to actively damage black people.

Anyone who presenting this as true historically is simply not dealing with established facts; the only possibly tenable argument is that it is no longer significant or effective.

2) That only by conscious effort can anyone disadvantage a minority.

You said @165 that it should be expected and accepted for white people to clutch their purses when black people are around, but seem unwilling to acknowledge that when that translates into a smaller likelihood of hiring, renting to, or what you have you, that such is a serious disadvantage economically.

3) That the only difficulties that black people could encounter at a greater rate than other people are driven by individual actions, and not the way the system is designed and implemented.

This could be anything from the FHA and VA adopting rules that kept black servicemen from receiving the same benefits as their fellow WWII veterans, to harsher sentencing guidelines for crack cocaine compared to powdered given socio-economic proclivities, to removing early voting days that were used in higher concentration by black voters or anything else that with intention or not, simply stacks the deck against black people. There is a lot of this in America and it seems that you are being purposefully obtuse here.
186
@153

Links to OPINION?

Did you READ ANY OF THEM? (I know you didnt)

http://crosscut.com/2011/12/21/washingto… - This article SUMS up the report HERE : http://digitalcommons.law.seattleu.edu/c…

The preliminary report on RACE and CRIME in Washington, by the Washington Supreme Court Judicial Committee, Seattle University LAW SCHOOl and UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON law school.

Sure, opinion right? How about this one?

http://faculty.washington.edu/kbeckett/a… -: University of washington report on drug use, arrests and race in Washington by 3 different University of WA professors in TWO different departments, and the Street Outreach services.

Sure, thats totally opinion. No academic research involved there either. I mean youve provided SO MANY sources to peer reviewed academic material backing your racist claims. Too bad mine are just opinion based.

Like these:
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hat…
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hat…

Crime data on hate crimes from the Uniform Crime Report by the FBI. TOTALLY OPINION. No fact there.

Also, dude, dont bother with your dup accounts. I dont respond to dup trolls. Youre lucky Im responding to a hate troll.
187
Also, anyone else notice 'the artful dodger' only seems to comment on threads related to race (to disparage minorities?) You know we can all just click your name and see this.

And 'justaperson', dude juche, why even create these fake accounts. This account was created during the run of this thread, and has only commented in this thread, and is giving hilariously ridiculous claims:

"Im a black woman and I dont dress hip hop so all the blacks stare at me...black youth dont care what people thing of them, there all criminals..."

Sure buddy. Next well have a fresh new commenter come in and say how he or she agrees with racism against blacks, and just happens to be black themselves.

I know that part of the goal of hate trolling is disinformation, and when that disinformation gets disproven, ignore it, fill the page with separate comments one after another (juche) then create fake handles to agree with you. Im afraid that only works on people dumb enough to take what they read on the internet for fact. Meaning right wingers. So you are basically pandering to the choir preaching racism towards blacks. No one else buys it.
188
185,

Like I said before, bad things can happen to black people. Bad things happen to everyone. There is no organized conspiracy today to hold black people back more than others. Of course there is always an exception to every rule, I'm sure you can find some article somewhere where joe blow black man was purposely injusticed because the color of his skin was black, with some research anyone could find an intentional injustice done to anyone because of their skin color no matter what that color is.

There is always the exception to the rule but it is a small percentage and does not represent the overall picture. How much of your perception on race issues in America is made up entertainment from paid Hollywood actors or media headlines that are created to turn heads and spark outrage just to grab the attention of the consumer? The content you subscribe to and take seriously is on the same tier as Milley Cyrus twerking.

Your solution to black problems is much like Danielle and Aracania who are in favor of total anarchy and lowering public school test score standards. Why? Because it's racist to arrest a black person and it's racist for a black person to receive low test scores.

Let's all just throw away the entire criminal justice system along with any hope of a functional education system in public schools because it's hurting black peoples feelings. Black people are so precious and everything they do is white peoples fault for all eternity so let's just destroy the whole country. I'll be happy to sacrifice any chance my child can receive a decent education, I'll be happy if my child is assaulted by a black child who is beyond the law and can't be held accountable for his actions.. Why? Because 8 generations ago some small percentage of white people owned slaves... Makes perfect sense, I can't wait to live in this brave new world you are fighting for.
189
Araucania,

Your funny, I've never posted here under another name. I actually enjoy an honest debate and I have no reason to swarm here with multiple names. I actually enjoy writing about thinking about what to write next.

I've enjoyed out conversation so far. Thanks for coming back I was getting lonely here. Btw, I've been interracially married for over 10 years.
190
*i actually enjoy writing and thinking about what to write next*
191
I already read the crosscut article several times and commented the hell out of it like 50 posts ago.

Your link to the Preliminary Report on Race and Washington’s Criminal Justice System is 50 pages long of course I'm not going to read it all, did you? I read the intro and summary. This study was performed by independent, for profit groups and is basically study with the summary as the high profile opinion which proves to them that race is taken into account within the criminal justice system.

Same thing with hate crimes and drug charges, already been there, already answered these questions. Mostly I keep answering the same questions with you and "probably wasting my time" don't you have anything new to bring to the table?
192
Aracania,

Nice strategy to silence the opinions of anyone who disagrees with you. Insist they are trolling and all multiple accounts from the same poster. It's obvious you are losing the debate and resorting to desperate measures. "Justaperson" did not even say what you quoted them as saying, you completely changed her words.
193
Araucania,

Hate crime laws were designed to protect minorities, mainly blacks. Am I suppose to be surprised that it is invoked more often protecting the people that it was designed to protect?

Just look at the posters over this thread who claim that it's racist for black people to be arrested or receive low test scores. Of course I'm not surprised that black people also invoke hate crime laws more often then white people do, they are abusing those hate crime laws and it's not helping them. Please see my post #181
194
It is beyond question that the people who call themselves "African-Americans" or some such, whatever their skin tone, have been at the bottom of our food chain have been at the bottom of the US food chain since the end of WW 2. Why is WW 2 an important marker?

Because Japan bombed Pearl, The US put all West Coast "Japanese" people in gulags, confiscated their property and did our level best to hate and kill Japanese people until we dropped the bomb and Japan surrendered.

Now, almost 70 years later, our Japanese-Americans are respected citizens who are at the statistical top of the food chain every social measure of civility and acceptance.

100 years before WW 2, after, the transcontinental railroads were finished, most. all Chinese people in Washington State were put into ships and deported to Canada. When I came to Washington State in 1962 Chinese people were not allowed by law to own real estate. Yes, the law was ignored same as the freeway speed. limit is ignored.

My question, why do Washington State citizens favor Chinese-American and Japanese-American people but African-American people are still at ythe bottom of the food chain?
195
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hat…

Araucania,
I stand corrected, but, You read FBI data incorrectly again. Black people are more likely to commit a race hate crime.

"In 2012, race was reported for 5,331 known hate crime offenders. Of these offenders:

54.6 percent were white.
23.3 percent were black."

Out of 5331 known hate crime offenders 54.6% white and 23.3% black.

Remember that white people make up 73% of the population and blacks make up 13-15%

There are about 5.6 times as many white people as black people in the USA.

Black people are about 5 times more likely to commit a race crime than a white person.

196
Bilwald,

You asked "It is beyond question that the people who call themselves "African-Americans" or some such, whatever their skin tone, have been at the bottom of the US food chain since the end of WW 2. Why is WW 2 an important marker?"

Why is WW 2 an important marker?

I think it is because of the ideology of communism and cultural Marxism started to gain traction in the USA since the end of world war 2. This has been a powerfully destructive force to true equality which was disguised as good intentioned and helping people of lower classes. The same thing occurred under the Bolsheviks who turned Russia into a bloodbath starting with the Russian revolution that was supposed to bring equality to people in serfdom but ended up killing millions and spreading to China and Vietnam. Even nazi Germany didn't kill so many. It's hard to estimate exactly how many were murdered as they didn't keep such good records under communism but many estimates say 30 million.
197
Araucania,

Can I touch your hair?
198
@199 "Mostly I keep answering the same questions with you and "probably wasting my time" don't you have anything new to bring to the table?"

I agree that you keep providing the same answers; it is a shame they have little to do with the questions.

@188 "There is no organized conspiracy today to hold black people back more than others."

You sure missed a lot of #185, but we can start with the easy stuff. The KKK's existence is an established fact and they are actively conspiring to the detriment of black people. I'll concede that they are hardly the organization they were during reconstruction, the 1920s or the 1960s, but they still exist.

I bring them up because they are one of the more visible, documented and outspoken groups, but there are plenty of others, all of which speaks against the first part of your three incorrect claims.

Now, just like bias in the SAT, this is not the only impediment to black success, but racist hate groups have put black people at a significant disadvantage, the sum of such can explain various short falls on several metrics.

@188 "Your solution to black problems is [...]"

Actually, you have no idea what I'd suggest.

You've been so busy opining against reality that the conversation has not progressed to discussing any solutions other than my suggestion that you could quit holding such illinformed opinions on racial issues, and honestly, I don't know if you noticed that one.

It would help, though; consider it.

@188 "if my child is assaulted by a black child"

Has your child actually been near any black children? Does your child go to school with any, share classes with any?

Also, it might help if you stop holding such illinformed opinions about racial issues; consider it.
199
@198

What are your thoughts on the hate crime data brought into the light again by araucania @#195

200
I'm laughing at those here who call others racist and say that some of these comments are the exact reason for this type of article. As if this place is littered with a bunch of anti black statements. I haven't read one yet.

If anything the comments are PRO black - stop having babies you can't take care of, stop dropping out of school, and stop committing a disproportionate number of violent crimes. Doing those things will HELP black people.

How the left has turned those into bad things is beyond me.
201
@199 I think that the crime data does not address any of your three ridiculous claims I asked you to source @185.

I think that hate crime legislation is an important protection for targeted groups, especially disadvantaged ones, but that white people benefit too.

I think your point regarding the racial breakdown of known hate-crime offenders compared to population percentage @195, is bullshit given that nearly a third of offender's race is unknown and inconsistencies due to the difficulties around determining the motivation of unsolved crimes.

I think your discourse on it reinforces your claim that @56 that you do not like reading things that do not agree with your prejudice.

I think I have no idea how the hell "the category called crimes against society, which includes drug or narcotic offenses, gambling offenses, prostitution offenses, and weapon law violations" could be anything other than bullshit.

I think it is another point against your argument that no one wants to discuss black on white crime @79, but does leave me wondering why you didn't follow up on my questions @117.

I think the numbers are interesting, but without proper context and detailed analysis are more likely to be used for bullshitting, rather than as a productive part of any meaningful dialog.
202

I made a chart to help you guys understand that this is serious.

http://www.use.com/supersize.pl?set=3f76…
203
Here is the raw data used to make the chart From the FBI and the Census:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic…

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/hat…
204
Let me know if you want some rape, murder, theft and other crimes made into charts.. Whatever helps you guys.
205
What about all the great people of color who reached out to make life better for those who are treated unfairly and oppressed? Martin Luther King, Malcolm X, Frederick Douglass, Medgar Evers, even Jimi Hendrix and Bill Cosby for instance. Often times, baby boomers may have a little fear of uneducated black people based on the experiences in the 70's. I recall being part of the original busing program, and was the only white guy on the school bus that took us to the annexed building from Garfield High. There were many available seats but no one would let me sit by them. They would shove me away, calling me a mother fuckin' honky. I was also threatened and beat up several times that year(1976). Obviously, this is peanuts compared to the horrific racism against blacks during Jim Crow nightmare, etc. but it should be considered in some cases of racist whites. They don't hate blacks, they are just afraid of them. I believe speaking in a more articulate way , making eye contact, smiling , being outwardly friendly at a job interview is not being a "house negro". Claiming that blacks are not educatable is in itself racist towards blacks. I think Martin L. K. and Rosa Parks and many others stood up to racism so that future generations would be respected in society.How many young blacks folks even know who Medgar Evers is?? Did Mr. Evers waste his life? Did Rosa Parks risk her life for nothing?
206
"My question, why do Washington State citizens favor Chinese-American and Japanese-American people but African-American people are still at the bottom of the food chain?"

It has nothing to do with favoritism. The Chinese and Japanese people have strong family structures, are fiscally conservative and share a culture that encourages their children to educate themselves, respect their elders, save money and compete.

That's why they are ahead.
207
Dear Danielle Henderson,

Instead of picking the low hanging fruit, why not challenge yourself and write an article titled "Five Ways People of Color can Make the City Better for Everyone."

Sincerely,

Someone sick of your whining.
208
@199 @188 @182,181,177,158,146,139,136,98&56

One of the ways that black people can be disadvantaged and that has significant bearing on crime statistics is in jury selection. As juche has stated there is indeed racism.

Clearly, this was a much larger problem for earlier generations of black people, although there are laws today in many jurisdictions that increase or perpetuate black underrepresentation in jury pools.

This is a study of recent data that shows how jury composition can increase black conviction and decrease black conviction rates:
qje.oxfordjournals.
org/content/early/
2012/04/15/
qje.qjs014.full

"Specifically, in cases with no blacks in the jury pool, black defendants are convicted at an 81% rate and white defendants at a 66% rate. When the jury pool includes at least one black potential juror, conviction rates are almost identical: 71% for black defendants and 73% for white defendants. The estimated impact of the racial composition of the jury pool on trial outcomes is statistically significant and leads to three main conclusions: (i) there is a significant gap in conviction rates for black versus white defendants when there are no blacks in the jury pool, (ii) the gap in conviction rates for black versus white defendants is eliminated when there is at least one black member of the jury pool, and (iii) conviction rates for white defendants are significantly higher when there is at least one black member of the jury pool (versus all-white jury pools). The estimates are robust to a number of alternative specifications, such as the inclusion of other case and defendant characteristics interacted with jury race"

Now, just like bias in the SAT or hate groups, this is not the only impediment to black success, but increased conviction rates and underrepresentation in jury pools have put black people at a significant disadvantage, the sum of such can explain various short falls on several metrics.
209
I don't know why you have to make things so complicated. Reducing black crime numbers would effectively change the perception that blacks are criminals. If you are black you can actually do this by abstaining from crime and doing a favor to your own race. Or you can make a big fancy high level study that is 50 pages long and proves what we already know - that black people are being perceived as criminals. - we have already seen raw data from the FBI proves blacks are more likely to commit the majority of crimes by such high numbers that suggesting they were framed is nothing short of suggesting a systematic conspiracy by whites to hold black people back. Basically everyone employed in the criminal justice and education system is involved in this conspiracy, hates blacks and is holding them back on purpose. Everyone we know in criminal justice and education is an evil racist by your definition.

The USA is 73% white so I'm not surprised a jury could end up being mostly white. We live in a democracy and pay taxes to be represented by our "leaders" and people the state employs. If you want to destroy democracy, then change all the laws to benefit special interest groups which do not represent the majority.
Black people represent 13-15% of the population.
210
Btw, plz show your facts and raw data that black people are less likely to be convicted of crimes when there are more black jury members.
211
@210 I included the link (some assembly required) in #208:
qje.oxfordjournals.
org/content/early/
2012/04/15/
qje.qjs014.full

@209 "Reducing black crime numbers would effectively change the perception that blacks are criminals."

Again, as I quoted from the study @208, an all white jury convicts black defendants at a higher rate, and white defendants at a lower rate, where a mixed jury convicts defendants of both races at the same rate.

If you are as interested in addressing this racial criminal disparity as your post count might indicate, insuring mixed jury pools looks like an easy and concrete step.

So, rather than making this overwrought, purely emotional protest against this bullshit strawman you keep constructing, why don't you address these simple facts with a little reason and logic?

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