i don't get how the health dept. is cool with this.

Since most bars and restaurants do not allow people with their pets (and I have no problem with that), surely the anti-dog contingent can just fuck off to one of those hundreds of eateries and allow us happy pet owners this one option?

If a bigot doesn't want to see gay gentlemen dancing close, he can retire to any of a score of bars which are hetero and simply avoid the few gay options, and it's his right to do so. But if some GOP asshat strolls into the Blue Parrot and starts squealing about how there are GAYS in there, near his FOOD, he should be invited to mind his own business and leave. Likewise dog-haters and the few, few establishments that are dog-friendly.

Right?

Not every bar is for every body. Stories like this are great for comment-farming, but reveal something of a hypocrisy when held up to even basic scrutiny.

My comment above is aimed more at Mr. Savage's SLOG post than Ms. Clement, who is simply relating the circumstances of her visit. Mostly.

@3 Your "basic scrutiny" is a little too similar to bigots who are against gay marriage on the grounds that next we'll have people wanting to marry their pets. Dogs are not people. How the health dept is ok with this is a complete mystery to me.

Oh, for crying out fucking loud. Dog haters can go to any fucking bar in this city, any bar except this one, and enjoy a doggie-free environment.

Keep your fucking dog-hating hands off this landmark establishment, assholes. Go be evil where you're welcome.

Further logic fail @ 3 & 4 - dogs are (supposedly) a health code violation, gay people are not.

Good question @ 6 - is this bar bribing the health inspectors? I think some investigative journalism is in order.

For everything there should be a place. I for one don't mind eating soup 18 inches from a pug as long as the pug doesn't come any closer than that. Really folks the average human being eats over 50 insects a year by accident (more if you are a bicyclist or a ride a motorcycle.) Get over it.

@3: My sentiments exactly.

It is rare to find a truly dog friendly place, and when one finds such a place - especially one that is so clearly identified, it should be treasured by the dog-folk and any who have a problem with a canine presence should go elsewhere.

Being new to the area I am glad to hear that such a place exists and plan to visit soon - not just for the food, but for the community of other dog-people.

YOU! I wanna take you to a DOG BAR! DOG BAR! DOG BAR!

308 million people in the U.S.
855,000 human on human aggravated assaults a year in the U.S. That's a 0.28% rate.

4.7 million dogs int he U.S.
72,114,000 dog on human aggravated assaults a year in the U.S. That's a 6.52% rate. I imagine dog on dog assault would be even higher.

Conclusion: Dogs are more violent than humans. Call me specist but I do not feel safe in a room full of unknown dogs. (half joking)

Oh no, we need to ban dogs within 25 feet of an entrance to a restaurant or bar!

Go to another bar if this is a problem. I would hang out there as long as the dogs (and the patrons) behave well. This place sounds fun and I wish we had something like it in my neighborhood.

@13: I used to run the Viking Kittens "Gay Bar" all the time. Thanks reminding me of that odd little gem.

Oh noes!

.... stares at Dan ....

Seriously, one doesn't tend to see dogs very often in Norm's, and then usually outside or near the entrance.

Mountain meet molehill ...

P.S.: no pit bulls seen there so far

There are quite a few humans I don't want anywhere near my food. Can we ban them from eating establishments for health code reasons?

oops. i mean 72 million dogs and 4.7 million dog attacks.

Norm's has been a favorite watering hole for me ever since I moved to Fremont. I don't own a dog, but I do love them, and the fact that dogs are allowed is actually a big bonus to me. Now that I know Dan Savage will never eat there, I love the place even more!

More fun Norm's trivia: the place is actually named after a dog. There is also a menu item named after Beatrice, another canine.

They used to have specials on 40s of PBR Wednesday nights, but I'm not sure that is still the case. It was always fun to stroll in and see people drinking from huge bottles wrapped up in paper bags.

Norm's has excellent food, far better than you ever expect of an alehouse, and they pick great beers for the taps. Check it out, doglovers. Seriously.

And if you aren't a doglover, don't go. Simple enough, eh?

I will totally admit to being a dog person. I've always had a dog as a pet, and will probably continue to do so. However, I also don't feel most public indoor places should welcome pets. It can be dangerous, insanitary, and inconsiderate to allergy sufferers.

That being said, there's no harm in having designated "pet-friendly" bars and restaurants, as long as all customers understand what they're getting themselves into.

Did you know that the dogs who come to Norm's are mostly alien extraterrestrials waiting to star in the next SF movie?

True.

That's why they're so nice.

But also why you should never leave your food and beer unattended when you go to the restroom.

I'm a huge dog person. Have one, love him more than words. I've had a dog my entire life. However, I went to Norm's last week, and that place is a nightmare. Took a good 3 minutes to get to the bar, because everyone's dogs were in the middle of everything, leashes pulled in every direction, no one making sure their dog wasn't blocking an aisle (Seriously...aisles exist for a reason folks. What if there is a fire?). Dogs humping, dogs licking, dogs fighting. Loudly. Aggresively. Best part of the night, however, had to have been when some asshole's dog ATE DIRECTLY FROM OUR BOWL OF TASTY HOMEMADE POTATO CHIPS. His owner had to get real close to the special menu and couldn't possibly control his dog while he was figuring out what soup he wanted. The owner offered to replace the chips...but then of course didn't.
Good times. Why aren't there so many more dog bars?!

Millions upon millions of people own dogs (and yet more own cats), keep them in their homes, and eat food prepared there every single day. Dogs are permitted in restaurants and pubs in plenty of countries. Unless there are dogs running loose in the food preparation area, I see no reason why they would be more of a danger to people in restaurants than other people (who use toilets and don't wash their hands afterwards; shed hair and bits of skin; and carry diseases that are transmissible to other humans).

I want a bar with lots of turtles. Any turtle bars?

What's hypocritical is the Stranger crying about the injustice when the police enforce laws against gay porn videos in bars, or whining that the health department is hard on your favorite rolling roach coach. And then doing all you can to narc on bars that allow dogs. You want to give nightlife room to flourish if it is something you're into personally, but if nobody on staff digs it then you want the bureaucrats to kick in their doors and shut them down.

Also, how come Savage and Mudede constantly complain on their blog about dogs in bars, but they never complain in person to the management of the bar? It makes one look like kind of a pussy.

I've eaten in restaurants in France and Germany where people brought their dogs and... it was no big deal. The dogs sat quietly on the floor near their owners. On the other hand, on Tuesday night I had dinner in a restaurant where the next table was occupied by a child who screamed, jumped up and down, and threw toys under our table.

I'll take the dogs.

That said, dog owners need to know their dogs, and know when it's a bad idea to bring them, and keep them under control in public. If you can't put your dog into a sit-stay or a down reliably, you should never bring that dog to a bar or restaurant.

Wow, are some of you people ever uptight! Really, what's the big deal? I'm not much of a dog lover, but I think this is a great idea. It also sounds like a great place for dog owners to meet other people and hang out.

As for the health violation argument -- really? Do you really see this as a major health threat? Lots of families have dogs, lots of kids grow up with dogs. I'd guess it's more likely to toughen their immune systems than put them at risk. I don't support dogs in all bars, mostly because it's unfair to people who have allergies (and because dogs can be disruptive), but this one bar doing it sounds like a win-win situation.

Also hypocritical: Stranger potheads agitating to not enforce marijuana laws, because they like pot and don't care about laws. The list of contradictions grows longer the more you look.

Is there word for the political philosophy of libertarianism for me to do what I enjoy but having the nanny state invade the lives of anybody not like me?

Granted, Norm's has been letting in dogs for years and years and we all know how much harm has come of that. Next thing you know somebody is going to be reading off all the names of the hundreds of dead patrons who were killed by the unhealthiness of it all. What was it, like 480 patrons last year? A tragic loss, I admit. But even if 1,000 a year died from dog cooties, isn't it their choice to be killed doing what they love?

(Personally I hate Norm's but that whole other discussion.)

I love this dog bar debate because now I know where all the dog bars are. Dogs <3

@35- If only American dogs/dog owners were as well-behaved as European dogs/dog owners, I'm guessing the dog-in-bar thing wouldn't inspire much of a debate.

That being said, I love it when people bring their well-behaved dogs to bars. I grew up with dogs but don't currently own one, so it lessens my dog-deprivation a bit!

These little dogs are useless.

Wait!...I take it back. They can be tied to a long pole & used to dust windows.

This sounds totally gross and I'd never eat there, but I have no problem at all with such a place existing. My state still has a mixture of smoking and non-smoking establishments, and to me it's the same issue: a smoking restaurant is great for smokers, and I can simply choose not to go there.

After Dan's post I really love how all the straight dog lovers are now considering whether it's dirtier to lick a man's anus or let a dog lick their face.

the dogs don't bother me. if the bar was filthy that would. I'm not a dog owner. just don't like em enough. But i do like em a little bit.

I wouldn't mind them in bars as long as they were well behaved. I'd rather see smoking banned than dogs. And that includes banning smoking from patio sections.

Business owners have the right to admit or deny access to their premises to anyone, and that includes canines. My dogs eat in the same kitchen I cook in and I'm all right with it. Anyone that doesn't like dogs can take their business elsewhere. In Europe this subject doesn't even come up, dogs go most places with their owners and no one is getting distemper over it. The U.S. is a country of whiners.

I don't really care if a bar is "welcome to dogs", if you don't care for it go else where. No biggie. I am a dog person but would prefer not to eat at a "dog friendly" bar. It just seems cruel to the dogs.

"sit there and watch me eat!!"
very unkind

@48 "I can't actually just walk to another nearby bar because there isn't one."

http://tr.im/normsbawww

Next thing you know anon will tell us he can't actually walk because he has no legs.

george & dragon, nectar, 9 million in unmarked bills, the red door, the ballroom, sinners and saints and the high dive were the first seven establishments within stumbling distance of norm's that popped into my head after reading 48.

maybe you're too shitfaced to notice, but fremont is kind of a big nightlife spot.

#9: No investigation needed. They simply pay fines if there are any, but finally, the health department has better things to do, like worry about swine flu and people who call them because someone was smoking 24 1/2 feet from the entrance of a business.

#13: You cracked me up.

Datajunkie: Seriously? Have you been to Norm's? The people that go in there usually live in the area, and if they walk by it with their dogs, their pooches make a beeline for the door because they love it and have other poochie friends there. l've never, EVER run into an unfriendly dog there, and l've been a regular there for almost nine years. Exactly how do you justify quoting a bunch of statistics and making such a judgment if you don't frequent the place? The people are regulars, the dogs are regulars, and their owners are smart enough not to bring in animals that don't play well with others.

#17: Say what? You don't see dogs in there that often? Have you been in on a weekend brunch? You seem to be defending this issue, but l'm just sayin...the dogs at Norm's is precisely why l love the place so much, since l don't own one myself. l would HATE to be a server there, but fortunately, that's not my problem.

#28: People aren't likely to make plans to eat at a restaurant they haven't researched to some degree first, especially if they think they might need reservations. lt's quite clear that Norm's is a dog bar even with the most minimal research. There's no reason they should have to advertise it further. They have paws on the outside of the restaurant for Chrissakes. DOG BAR! lt's a fucking dog bar, kids. Leave them be. Again, if it's not for you, don't go there.

#29: WORD!

Elenchos: Why do you hate Norm's? Just curious, not contentious.

#43 and #48: Read my lips, hon: THE DOGS ARE NOT OFFLEASH AT NORM'S. Therefore, while valid, your annoyingly redundant point about letting dogs run around free is utterly moot. So is your 'take your business elsewhere argument is lame' one, since there are at least ten other places to drink in Fremont besides Norm's, as two others have pointed out. You are a moron; please at least research the things you are discussing so you can actually participate in a discussion with some reasonable credibility. Thank you.

#47: THANK YOU! l was going to mention a bill that was up back in 2007 to allow dogs in bars, and leave it up to the owners to decide. l can't seem to find anything to confirm it passed, but l did have a conversation a year or so back with someone who also goes to Norm's, and they seemed pretty sure the law no longer prevented it.

#49: The dogs love being able to hang out with their owners, whether their owners are eating or not. Generally, dogs are trained not to beg for food; eating around them at a restaurant is no different than eating around them at home. lt beats the fuck out of being tied to the post outside in the middle of winter, which IS cruel.

It was horrible. We came in and asked the waitress if we could watch MotoGP on Speed TV in the back, about 15 minutes before the race was going to start. All the TVs in front had football on but nobody was sitting way in the back on the far side of the bar. The waitress consulted with the bartender, then they came back and told us we could.

So we sat down, ordered cocktails, and then ordered food, watching the pre-race BS. Then our drinks came. Then, 30 seconds before the start, the waitress came up and said somebody else asked for football on that TV too, as the other like 4 TVs were not enough, so we were SOL. Sorry. The place was only about 1/3 full, if that, by the way.

We should have walked out without paying right there, but we were hungry and there was no chance of seeing the race anywhere at that point, so we ate our bitter food and drank our bitter drinks. And that's the real reason Norm's sucks. I don't recall seeing any dogs there that day.

Fuck Norm's.