Arizona is having another Mecham Moment(tm).
So let me get this straight, Dan: On the one hand you're all for painting ALL muslims with a broad brush as intolerant and violent, while on the other defending brown hispanics against a Draconian law that violates the 4th and 14th Amendments, as well as supremacy clause? Got it. Logic was never really your strong suit. Are you and Glenn Beck related? Both of you lack education and elementary logic skills.
The more a state's economy depends on immigrant labor, the stupider they tend to be about it.

Man, what the fuck.

But didn't you hear? The illegals are out here terrorizing us! I can't walk more than five feet without being terrorized!

In all seriousness, I live in Tucson. And I've been sick to my stomach for three straight hours now. Anyone up there have a room for rent?
Of course the President is not pleased. Obama is a corporate whore and corporations need cheap illegal labor to maximize profits.
And the Latino vote (fastest growing minority in the US, mind you) has been delivered to the Democrats for the next. 20. years.
"Papers, please."
Waste of time. States do not have a right to craft immigration laws. Even the right wing of the Supreme Court can't deny that.
Then our brown President should get off his brown ass and enforce Federal law.
Follow the link, fuckface. Our brown president is doing just that.
Obamma ain't got no papers eether! He'z form Ken Yah in Thailand! NO BIRTH CRETRIFICATT!

We're doomed. The current Supremes are going to love this law to pieces. They'll base it on the Hiibel case. National ID cards will probably be coming soon. Ironically, hard-core Western Goldwater conservatives like those who used to rule Arizona have always been dead set against the idea.
Crud! Arizona how I love your topography and all my family and friends, but this sucks!

Now I have a date to get ready for. Mr. Buddy Guy is in town.
@11 Your links are worth shit, dickface, because you lack basic reading comprehension skills. Get an education, faggot.
Arizona's house just passed another law requiring people running for the presidency to prove their citizenship. They are becoming the laughing stock of the nation a state runned by birthers and bigots. john mccain is no longer- was he ever- a reach across the aisles type of guy. Every Latino should boycot this state. Im writing the M's ( long shot) to move their spring training to Cali.
This is not a surprise. After all Arizona rescinded the MLK holiday when it first came into effect. It's infested with white retired paranoid racist fuckwads.

On the other hand it joins Colorado as a bona fide hate state.
@15 I actually LOVE that birther law in AZ. LOVE IT AND ADORE IT AND I WANT TO HUG IT AND CUDDLE IT. I want it signed into law YESTERDAY.


I *WANT* every candidate to provide the "Original" birth certificate. HELL YES.


Because then everyone will have to finally shut the fuck up when Barry gives everyone the middle finger while proving he was born in Hawaii. Nevermind the fact that he's natural born BECAUSE HIS MOTHER WAS A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN.
This mean-spirited maneuver can't be constitutional, can it?

I really hope that every Latino group can organize to assure that a republican has no hope of holding office in the future there (...or anywhere else, come to think on it)
This is fucking dumb. Of course they're going to target brown people. Who else "looks" like they're illegal? Hell, I'm Canadian (and legal, thank you) and very rarely have papers on me that state this fact. How much do you want to bet they'd never ask for MY papers due to my Wonderbread-white skin? Hooray for even more racial profiling!

You can always bet on Republicans to be on the wrong side of social justice.
@8 "I'd like to see your other license and registration, please."
@6 Except this does nothing to minimize illegal immigrants.
@17 i see your point, but if the fringe racking up legislative victories in different states, they can then go for more hateful laws targeting others. not a good wish.

this anti immigrant legislation was started by a white supremacist who 3 years ago was considered too fringe. now he is a leader in the Arizona house.
@22 as an aside, the passage of this immigration law and the inevitable--seriously, 100% inevitable--Federal challenge to it if the governor signs it will be the beginning of the tipping point. The election of a black man was the iceberg out in the water, that the United States was sailing through. The fact that it was not a Conservative black man--say, Alan Keyes or Colin Powell--made it more likely that the collision would be unpleasant when it happened. But it did, and this law right here are the rivets on the side that may get torn open in the next few months. If this law goes live you know that at least TX will come close to doing the same thing if not actually pass it.

The minute the Fed declares legally that they cannot do that, the sinking will begin. Like I've been saying on and off, our grandchildren may live to see the beginning of the next civil war or at least attempted coup de'tat.
I don't get any of this and people in Arizona who support this aren't thinking it through. I know because I was there yesterday and over heard four pale men discussing it and how anyone who speaks Spanish should be questioned. I asked them "What if the person speaks German?" The four were quiet for a moment when the ring leader said, "I guess them too." It has been almost 70 years since being German or Japanese was a problem here in the U.S. and of course being Japanese was far worse than being German.

@3 most Muslim terrorists will speak with an accent and have skin with brown tones. Therefore the terrorists would be targeted by this law, too. Not to mention that Dan's call to exercise our freedom of speech rights is not in direct contradiction to the arguement that this law is wrong.

I am not sure which rules of logic you are applying to imply that if you believe in freedom of speech within the limits as determined by Brandenburg v. Ohio you cannot logically believe that a law that violates the 4th and 14th amendments is heinous.

Or are you saying that because Dan believes in Freedom of Speech he has branded all Muslims as intolerant and violent? Or am I missing something within your arguement?
"f this law goes live you know that at least TX will come close to doing the same thing if not actually pass it."

I don't think so, Joe. The other boarder states have very large Latino populations, and these people vote. This is not the case in AZ. The Latino population in AZ, while large, is quite small as a registerd block of voters. The politicians in TX know where their bread is buttered, and they are not going to offend an important political constituancy. Look for wholesale mobilization of voter registration and voting by Latino's in AZ.
Dan, will you withdraw your column from Phoenix New Times?
Wow this week Arizon leagalized concealed carry, Demanded the president show his birth certificate and passed a law against illeagals. With all the kalifornia and east coast trash (not to mention the trash from south of the border) that has been pouring in to my home state of Washington I just might move.
Should we expect and demand the Seattle Mariners to cease their support of baseball in AZ?
@14: Obama's having this giant turd of a law looked at by the Justice Department to see if it's constitutional. Any questions?
And you think Dan's reading comprehension sucks.

@27: The kind of kalifornia, east coast, and south of the border trash that can spell decently, I presume you mean. Seriously, hit F7 once in a while and spare us all.
Yep, most AZ Republicans are racist or have ties to white supremacist groups. The Maricopa County Sheriff's department is already infamous for unlawfully harrassing or arresting US citizens for no reason other than their skin color. No authority except the feds seems to oppose Sheriff Joke. The new legislation is unenforceable unless we start requiring citizens to carry ID at all times (in addition to being unconstitutional and blatantly racist). Most illegal immigrants have already left here because of existing employment laws. The rental housing market has collapsed in the Phoenix metro area, many rentals are empty or offering crazy deals.

AZ has tried its best to destroy its economy by harassing and arresting undocumented residents. As a consequence the economy has cratered due to the departure of workers who had taxes deducted from their pay and were renting and spending in the local economy. AZ now has the priviledge of having the largest state deficit in the nation as a percentage of its GDP. It makes the California state government look positively flush with cash. AZ did this to themselves.
Finally ONE state stands up to the Canadian menace!

I assume they'll righteously demand papers from anyone they hear saying "eh?" to irradicate these maple-sucking, moose riding snowbacks from our glorious shores!
Joking aside, I'm married to a pasty white Canadian. I'm Hispanic/Native American. Which one of us do you think will have to worry about bringing their birth certificate if we ever have the foul fucking luck to accidentally drive through Arizona?

This is fucking sickening.
Comment #26:

Why would Dan withdraw from the the Phoenix New Times. If you've read that paper just a couple times, you'd know they in no way support this bill in particular or Joe in specific.

Again, why would Dan want to withdraw?
According to John McCain (on the O'Reilly Factor, no less), this law is a good thing because among other reasons:
"illegals...are intentionally causing accidents on the freeway"
@30 - so true. And Russell Pearce, the Mesa Mormon legislator who dreamed up this KKK wet dream is good buddies with J.T. Ready, a white supremacist who can be seen in photos at a Neo-Nazi celebration in Oklahoma.……

The Arizona I grew up in was not like this. We got rid of Mecham, another racist Mormon - collecting more signatures in the recall than he received in votes - only to have him impeached for being crooked (funny, for someone who claimed to be so pious, said he spoke to God, and that it was ordained he become governor - sounds like a former president....). Yes, immigration reform is needed. But not this. This is legislated racism, despite those who claim it is not.
And for a state whose economy is already down in the tubes, the last mess with Mecham cost the state several hundred million dollars in lost revenue - a Superbowl that was moved to Pasadena, hundreds of conventions and concerts that were cancelled. I'm sure the NRA and the KKK, as well as the national GOP'ers (R = racist) will want to go to AZ now, but it was bad news last time and it will be bad news this time. Just wait for the lawsuits to begin - Joe Arpaio has already cost Maricopa County hundreds of thousands of dollars in lawsuits. They can't even repair the roads or have their rest stops open because there is no money. I feel bad for my fellow Arizonans who are not racist - and there are some there - but the have been canceled out by those who have moved in from the midwest and Texas.
At least I'll save some plane fare by not going home for a long, long time....
@34: makes sense to me. This is so they can vituperatively avail themselves of our world-class health care system, of course.

The link where he says:
"Our failure to act responsible at the federal level..."?

The link where he says:
"...if we continue to fail to act at the federal level..."?

The link where he says:
"In fact, I've instructed members of my administration to closely monitor the situation"?
"Closely Monitor".
That's the Federal version of "Let's have a townhall meeting! blah blah blah."
It is not enforcing Federal Immigration law.

The link where he says:
"... and examine the civil rights and other implications of this legislation."?
Dicking around Examining Implications is not Enforcing Federal Law, either.


The President is NOT enforcing Federal Immigration Law.
He knows it.
And, now, so do you.

Of course! Which is why so many Arizonans go down to Mexico to get health care - particularly dentistry...

At least Utah is happy now. In the words of a Salt Lake Tribune commenter:
"It's good to know that Utah doesn't have a monopoly on idiots in the legislature."
@37: Seriously? Really, Alleged? I've seen you make a right old horse's ass out of yourself before, but this just takes the cake. Let me break this down for you, and I'll do my best to use little words that you have a chance at understanding.

"Our failure to act responsible at the federal level..."
"...if we continue to fail to act at the federal level..."
These quotes are talking about what will happen if they don't do anything about the new immigration law. Obama thinks that the new law is bad and that the government needs to check if it's Constitutional or not.
"...I've instructed members of my administration to closely monitor the situation and examine the civil rights and other implications of this legislation."
This quote is talking about how Obama wants to see if the law will be used for the police to be racist. He's having his people watch to see if people do get arrested just because they're Hispanic. And if that does happen, he'll know for sure that it's a bad law.

There is no mention of Federal immigration law (or the enforcement of any law at all) in the passage quoted. Not to mention, the law that the President is criticizing is a STATE law. You here are just as dumb as your earlier incarnation at #14. I believe you are the fuckface.
Let's go feed the little fuckers, fuckface:…
I give it an "E" for effort in that they are trying to protect their jobs, especially as a border state. Constitutionality, well ... as an illegal immigrant you have limited constitutional rights ... maybe ... but Dan's right, it's sadly, and pathetically, totally unenforceable. You can't enforce this law without potentially harassing and discriminating against the legals. If we are THAT concerned, maybe we should just fuck it and get national ID cards (and apparently national birth certificates as well.)

Of course that is less kosher on the civil liberties front ...
A democrat from Phoenix indicated that in order for the police/gov't to avoid racial profiling lawsuits, and in order to at the same time comply with state law, the police would have to start asking EVERYONE for proof of residency. So state ID cards may become mandatory in AZ in 90 days, even for the white people in some places.

Yup. Papers, please.
Umm.... the jobs that most of the illegals have are not jobs that anyone else wants, so they're really not protecting any jobs. I have a friend who runs a landscaping business in Phoenix. He has been shorthanded since the crackdown began. He advertises weekly for workers, but gets few to no takers. He doesn't believe there are all that many people out of work despite what the AZ or U.S. gov't proclaims; either that or all the white ones are afraid of good hard physical work. So he ends up picking up Latino workers outside Home Depot each day so that he can fulfill his contracts and keep his business running. The other people who have been hit hard are the farmers - especially the smaller, independent ones who can't find pickers, thus crops are rotting in the fields.
StuckinUtah, that's just stupid. If someone told me of ways to make under the table cash while collecting unemployment, looking for the job I went to school for (and have the student loans for) ... seriously SIGN ME UP. It's more productive to actually do SOMETHING than NOTHING AT ALL. I could do labor just fine. I guess ... the other thing ... it's intimidating as all hell as a white nonspanish speaker to take a job I'm terribly overqualified for and spend long days with people take me out of my element.

And honestly, the stigmata is on both ends. Nobody wants to hire a doctorate in Organic Chemistry for anything other than organic chemistry.

Even though I wanted money, we are cultured for "professionalism".
how, how did everyone miss the most important part of this post?!?! Right at the end, on the CNN ticker tape thingie at the bottom: Archie Comics to Get New Gay Character!

Now THAT is news.

@44 I've read your post far too many times over and it STILL doesn't make sense. Are you pissed you can't get a job doing menial labor or pissed that someone would actually make you do it? No one wants to hire you to pick fruit, or you're afraid to pick fruit because you don't speak Spanish? I'm honestly not getting it.

I don't think anyone asks to look at your doctorate in anything when you apply to these jobs, so I'm failing to see what the "stigmata on both ends" is. Unless it's something you've made up for yourself.

I've known managers at Taco Bell who are cool with hiring a doctorate in "whatever you couldn't get a job in, can you push the button for Chalupa?" so I'm really not getting how you're being so goddamn opressed by your "professionalism."
@44 if you were being sarcastic, I apologize on the behalf of some super delicious gin and tonics. If you weren't, go fuck yourself.
@32 Thank you for this heads up, Karla. Like your husband, I try to blend in as much as possible when traveling (no flannel shirts, leave the malamute at home, wipe the Tim Horton's doughnut crumbs off my iPod) but one ill-timed "Sore-y!" to a State Trooper in AZ, and that'll be all she wrote... :)
@48 Sore-y is the reason I'm still married to that filthy Mounty lover. It's impossible to maintain a fight (much less a straight face) when someone goes "I'm sorey." Bwahaha.
@44 - There's not a lot of white people willing to do unskilled manual labor for minimum wage outdoors here most of the year. I've seen very few white people doing landscape work for others. 30+ years ago some crop picking was done by college students on break, but ASU students of today would turn up their noses and take unpaid internships instead.
@49 Noooo, you've finally guessed our super polite strategy for world domination! And Mounties are ADORABLE, what's not to love??
This is such fucking bullshit, goddamn.
70% of Arizonans are not racist morons. 50% of the population is Hispanic and I seriously doubt they'd knowingly vote for a bill that would make "driving while brown" a crime on purpose. I can see the ossified, lily-white geezers fossilizing out in sun city voting for this crap (ironically enough most are from the mid-west and north east) or the bat-shit crazy LDS break away cults up in the north country....but anyone else? I don't see them voting for this purposely. Most white people here (the other 50% of the population) are related in some way to somebody who's non-white and the odds are that person is Hispanic....yes, even some Mormons.

I don't recall these two bills being on the ballot. Neither does my mother who is an Arizona voter....which makes me suspect that 70% of voters approve of this. The only bill we recall is something to do with identity theft. Since Arizona has a terrible problem with identity theft, I can see how legislation regarding that would be really popular.

That being said I think Jan Brewer will be serving another term.
Edit: Jan Brewer will not be serving another term. She's not very popular.
AZ's economy was based and flourished upon the labor, tax reciepts and spending of undocumented residents coupled with cross boarder trade with Mexico. That quickly changed when conservative political elements within AZ state government began to focus attention eliminating the undocumented residents who were contributing to the state economy. The result was the largest per capita state budget deficit within the 50 states. It is massive. This new law, weather or not it is enacted, will continue to contribute to that deficit. The current AZ state govenment has no clear idea how to extract themselves out of their revenue issues; they have PO'd their major trading partner to the south who is now threating economic boycotts and they have guaranteed few companies will want to invest in AZ if they think their employees will be harassed, and the political environment is unpredictable.

They (AZ) really screwed this up. This is a state that is completely out of control.
Karla, maybe a little bit of both.

Organic Chemistry, back in 2004 was almost a universally an in for a six figure job. This is before we started to jettison R and D to foreign countries. Now, there is a collective wtf on the science front. There is plenty of science that needs to be done, but no one is sure what the role is for Ph. D. scientists right now. As far as industry goes, we are "overqualified" to be techs and underqualified to be managers even though we really need only small amounts of training.

It's just very very confusing. Will things recover? Will they not recover? Can afford to pay back my student loans doing manual labor? Will I have the opportunity to advance? Will they hire me KNOWING that if the research economy recovers, I will just quit and do what I was I trained to do. Seriously, I would NOT have gotten the Ph. D. in organic chemistry had a I know I would be flipping burgers for the rest of my life. I would have gone to trade school? or something? I make PLASTIC and DRUGS for a living, christ neither seem to be going out of style, and jobs making either in the states are scarce.

Yet, you still need to live, I spent more time bitching to companies that I owed money to for my education, which some could be viewed of as investment. I didn't give up my 20's to be bitched at by embittered old single men JUST so I could have financial insecurity for the rest of my life.

So what do you, well, I finally found a job, in Georgia of all places ... and I guess for now this is where I belong.

I was talking to someone about this last night, it's simply turf. I don't speak spanish (well) I don't live in that culture. I just think doing day labor, would have been, unfortunately, an uncomfortable position for all. My co workers, myself, and my boss. It's not enough to be willing to work, you kind of have to ... well fit in. I remember my last construction job before I moved to the west coast to be an organic chemist, I kept getting asked to make meth ...

yeah ...
I know I live in a veeery liberal state that would (hopefully) never do that, but it's reasons like this that I started carrying my green card everywhere. I'm pale (reasonably, depending on how much I've tanned that summer), but I speak with a slight accent and listening to the news has made me *paranoid*. (My favorite is when I try to use it as proof of age and people don't accept it as a "legit government-issued form of ID").
If the feds don't want to protect the states from illegal activity, states have to protect themselves.
I'm not opposed to any legal immigration, I'm only opposed to illegal immigration. The feds stopped building the fence along the border a few weeks ago. They sent another signal to states, it's up to you to protect yourselves.
There is a distinct cultural shift taking place in Arizona and the other border states, and it is understandable that the Arizona voting population (older whites and those gueros who consider themselves white) is reacting to it. It does not help that, nationally, our standard of living has also been steadily declining; people are going to make a connection between the two. Is there a real connection, or is this conflation? Who knows?

California just went over the 50% latino mark last year, and over the years we have had similar responses from those who feel threatened. The difference probably lies with California's younger, and more liberal population. However, even in California there was a law passed about ten years ago (struck down by the state court days later) to have teachers report the presence of undocumented students to immigration officials. The same kind of uproar happened then.

The reality is that in the poorest sections of Los Angeles, Phoenix, Tucson, Santa Ana and other southern cities more than a third of the population is undocumented and incredibly poor and uneducated. It is estimated that the total number of undocumented immigrants living in the Los Angeles metropolitan region is 1.5 million. What kind of culture is brewing there and in Phoenix? Should the voting populations be concerned?
@35 - You! We need people like you! I moved back and registered to vote just so I could vote against Joe. I grew up here, part of me wants to hang around and make it better, but most of me just feels like I'm beating my head against a wall. I'm wondering what happens when they pull over my Mexican bf (legal citizen for over 20 years). Or me, with my Irish skin that's been in the sun all week. Another month and I'll look as Mexican as he does.
@44, What is "stigmata on both ends?" Both hands and feet bleeding? Bleeding feet and forehead from crown of thorns?
@43 Why in the world would anyone want to do the jobs of the illegals when instead, you can sit at home on your ass and collect unemployment? Stop unemployment and you'll have people lining up to do those menial jobs like landscaping, picking fruit, etc.
@62: You have to prove to the government that you're making an honest effort to get a job if you want to get unemployment benefits extended past the first month or few. Dumbass.
@63 Obviously you've never been in a business and had someone come up to you and say, Can you sign this form saying I came in here looking for a job but you aren't hiring so I can keep getting my unemployment?
It's as simple as that to keep on the dole.
And thanks for making it personal with the name calling which was unnecessary and rude. But why should I expect anything else?
@64: "Dumbass" was not name calling, Just Say No. Rather, it was an honest appraisal of your knowledge on the subject.
See, unemployment benefits can only be extended for 13 weeks maximum over the standard 26 weeks you get when you lose your job. And in order to collect unemployment benefits at all, you need to demonstrate a willingness to work; this generally entails applying for positions that the Job Service suggests and then accepting the job if you get it. Freeloading off of the government isn't nearly as easy as you think.
Wow, then I guess those guys must be printing out their own forms and trying to get me to sign them for no reason whatsoever. A very interesting tactic.
Go back to your Wii, honey.

It's pretty easy; the government does not have the resources to really keep tabs.
@66, 67: Well then, the solution is not to get rid of unemployment benefits, but rather to enforce the laws better.
Also, Just Say No, laws vary from state to state. I checked the basic stuff for Virginia (your state, apparently), and people are required to show that they are indeed searching for jobs while they receive unemployment benefits. However, the Virginia unemployment office does not always send people specific job leads, which would explain why you may have been seeing such attempted fraud. The official government PDF also states that you may be given benefits from 12 to 26 weeks only. There is a law allowing for extension of benefits, but this is used only "during periods of prescribed high national or state unemployment levels". And to get unemployment benefits again after they run out for you, you have to hold a job for at least a month and then lose it through no fault of your own. So if you think that you can just live off government handouts in perpetuity, you obviously don't know what you're talking about.

I'll assume the "dumbass" comment was meant for @66, not me.

I'm not advocating getting rid of unemployment benefits; I've received them. I'm just letting you know that, at least from my experience, your statement that "in order to collect unemployment benefits at all, you need to demonstrate a willingness to work" is based on the naive and incorrect notion that the state governments actually have the capacity to keep track of what unemployed people are doing to find work.

Believe me, I'm far more concerned with welfare given to corporations and banks than I am about welfare given to the little guys (and gals), but being liberal and being cynical about the little guy's motives are not mutually exclusive.

Oh, and being more on topic, I don't think this law is a good idea.
@69: Agreed. No offense intended.

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