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Aug 12, 2014 at 1:16 pm
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1101 East Pike St. Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98122
1101 East Pike St. Suite 300, Seattle, WA 98122
Change "led" to "taken".
He had no choice in that action.
He was a prisoner of the mall security guy.
And the cop supported the mall security guy's authority to take prisoners.
All that aside, it broke my heart to read Wilford state "I've been treated like that all my life, so it kinda brushes off"
No one should have to live like that.
The smug expression of shirtless white guy walking away really pisses me off.
Wilford didn't do anything like that, he was seemingly assaulted...maybe just bumped...by random shirtless dude, then squared off to fight and kept pursuing it until he walked into mace wielding guard...who sprayed the most aggressive fighter, which was Wilford. Wilford kept engaging the fight ~30 feet right back to where the guard was. IF he keeps going to Westlake, nothing happens...and literally nothing is standing in his way, he's past shirtless idiot. Shirtless guy saw the guard with mace and split. He at least knew when to walk away.
Look at the photos, read his own statements:
"I was trying to avoid him because I heard him say a bunch of racial stuff," says Wilford, interviewed by phone from his home in South Seattle. It's not clear who bumped into whom or what started the altercation between Wilford and the shirtless guy. In the photos, they encounter each other and then square up in opposing fighting stances.
But there's no indication in the images, witness statements, or police reports that Wilford committed any crime. SPD's police report says "the unknown suspect"—the shirtless man whose name we don't know—"started a fight with him." Garland and Ayesh said Wilford did a kind of pump-fake move at one point, but didn't actually throw a punch. "I never hit him and he never hit me," Wilford says.
The security guard will face no penalty, for reasons outlined by poster @13
If this dude is used to descrimnation, then he should know damn well rushing a security guard or cop, even to tattle on some other dude is bad news.
How did he rush the security guard? He's standing pretty much right next to the white guy, and there's a reasonable distance between him and the guard when he gets sprayed.
Pepper spray/Mace whatever is considered a de-escalation tool. It shuts people up and stops fighting so you can sort out, or in the case of a individual, flee. Ultimately they cleaned the dude up and let him go, all you dummies yelling OMG ASSAULT need a better understanding of how the law works.
The biggest difference between the white dude and the black one, in this case isn't racial profiling its that the white guy knew to GTFO when the guard pulled out the can.
I have been thinking of writing something about this on my blog--because I do believe that it is a danger--especially to the spirit of our community--I think the solution is simple and that is that security guards need to have cameras on them and that their highest calling should be to protect the people--not the property or corporations--that simple shift will change everything.
I filed written complaints to both Westlake and Valor security, and never heard anything back. D. Cordova was the guards name and his badge indicated he was a supervisor. Wouldn't surprise me at all if this guy was the same guy... he looks familiar.
Yeah, and we all know how far that's going to go (nowhere.) The police union will see to that.
Yes...as everyone knows, we must wait until we are actually physically abused before we take any steps in our self defense.
WOW!
Here's ANOTHER example of The Stranger only telling their one sided biased version of the story.
What has happened to The Stranger? The previous report of this story was that one man DID confront the racist protesters (I notice that you didn't show any of the racist placards...), and a number of the protesters became physically violent with this man.
But, you'd know that if you DID YOUR OWN RESEARCH. Man, The Stranger no longer has reporters, they have propagandists. What a shame.
Dude...no. First, he didn't spar with the shirtless guy. Witnesses confirmed that no one actually hit anyone. Second...the shirtless guy did not know when to GTFO. If you follow the link to the complete gallery of photos...the shirtless guy is standing directly beside Wilford as Wilford is sprayed. He never leaves the area.
And seriously...Wilford should have stayed greater than 21 feet away from the guard? If he had tried to put 21 feet between himself and the guard, he probably would have been accused of fleeing the scene.
The guy was profiled and harassed. The two were standing right beside each other (and according to the photos seem pretty much done confronting each other), and the guard sprayed Wilford and didn't spray the shirtless guy.
Crucially, isn't it the case that when you invite people to demonstrate on the park side, it's one thing, but when you drift across the street you're subject to cries of "trespass"?
Kudos to Mr. Wilford keeping his cool under such trying circumstances. I once "pump-faked" during a standoff and it did not turn out well for me. She kicked my ass.
This is clearly sparring: http://thedignityvirus.files.wordpress.c… Dude was engaging shirtless jerk. At that moment he is no longer a bystander, hence he was not profiled, security guard didn't walk up on random non white person, he engaged the two dudes fighting.
No cop would ever arrest the guard for assault, because anyone with a tiny itty bit speck of legal understanding would be able to make this into a valid assault charge. no amount of "BUT THE WHITE DUDE!" will make up for that.
The fact that Aaron was not a participant in the ongoing political demonstration is irrelevant. The fact that Brad acted in a threatening manner to participants in the demonstration is irrelevant. The fact that Brad suggested the fight to Aaron is irrelevant. The fact that Charlie was wearing a security guard uniform is irrelevant.
Charlie assaulted and kidnapped Aaron. I know it's a bit strange to think of this as kidnapping, but it fits the definition. It is unlawful for one person to do that to another. Officer Christenson should have attempted to stop the crime he witnessed. Instead of protecting the victim, Aaron, Officer Chriestenson assisted the perpetrator, Charlie.
Instead one Raymond Wilford, a 25 y/o black male passerby with no investment in the peaceful protest, was placed in a hostile situation by simply trying to pass through the area where the agitator was still being confrontational. Wilford did not touch the guy but somehow was the one who was pepper sprayed and detained. Shirtless jerk was allowed free reign to be as disruptive as he wanted to be in both the public and privately owned parts of Westlake Park.
I saw this from the opposite corner and saw the agitator from up close. As for all you armchair attorneys who think you know the legal definition of sparring or self-defense or non-engagement, you simply are imposing your belief system (BS) on a set of events that might as well have been on a TV cop show. You weren't there. It still doesn't detract from the peaceful protest - but this selective and preferential enforcement of law and abuse of power has becomes the backdrop against which this ongoing protest for peace occurs.
Anyone trying to deny that this is a clear example of both racial profiling and a gross abuse of job as a security guard is either being willfully obtuse or just plain dumb.
I dont know how to pad this for you, but you're wrong. I know people in the security industry, and while the cops will sometimes look the other way, this is definitely assault. Being a security officer on private property does not give you the right to spray and detain people unless you can prove that they committed a crime on the property. Some folks have lost their jobs over it. Honestly, if Wilford had hit the guard after being sprayed, and had an attorney, he could hit the guard and get him sent down for assault.
PS if you are in the late-night, drunk version of the industry, all bets are off. Cops back the bouncer.
Are you out of your mind? Being a security guard gives nobody the right to assault and/or seize anyone under any circumstance. Regardless of one's employment, self-defense is sometimes an affirmative defense to the crime of assault, and a citizen's arrest is a citizen's arrest, regardless of one's employment.
You know, Friedman's such an emotional and incoherent nut that I have no idea what he was trying to say @26, other than that the Stranger sucks.
How might this be used to pressure the mall into compensating Wilford, firing the guard, and reforming their policies about how to treat the public between now and when the Christmas tree goes up on their property?
Yeah youre right, thats why I used the words "does not".
Unless you meant that security could not intervene in the committing of a crime. It depends on how provable and what category the crime is, and honestly, in practice, how drunk the defendant is.
Extreme example for distinction:
1) a guard cannot mace you for putting your gum under a table
2) a guard can mace you for hitting people
As for racism in the Pacific Northwest, Malcolm X long ago said he'd rather deal with the southern rattlesnake than the northern copperhead because at least you can hear the rattlesnake coming.
As for private corporate mercenary security cops, Spokane is dealing with the insidious and growing jnfluence of these private security force, many wanna-be cops, former military, and off-duty police. In much of the world these private police forces double as death squads. Short of that, these corporate mercenaries operate in a legal space between people free speech and free assembly rights and the law. They harass, intimidate and threaten people on behalf of business interests without oversight of police ombudsmen, civil oversight groups, and the media. The "policing" done by these private police forces often violate civil rights and verge in vigilantism.
I am thankful this man survived this private policing incident gone bad. I am deeply disturbed by the proliferation of these for-profit cops in our libraries, welfare offices, public transit facilities, etc.
It is time to direct much more attention to these domestic mercenaries.
As for racism in the Pacific Northwest, Malcolm X long ago said he'd rather deal with the southern rattlesnake than the northern copperhead because at least you can hear the rattlesnake coming.
As for private corporate mercenary security cops, Spokane is dealing with the insidious and growing jnfluence of these private security force, many wanna-be cops, former military, and off-duty police. In much of the world these private police forces double as death squads. Short of that, these corporate mercenaries operate in a legal space between people free speech and free assembly rights and the law. They harass, intimidate and threaten people on behalf of business interests without oversight of police ombudsmen, civil oversight groups, and the media. The "policing" done by these private police forces often violate civil rights and verge in vigilantism.
I am thankful this man survived this private policing incident gone bad. I am deeply disturbed by the proliferation of these for-profit cops in our libraries, welfare offices, public transit facilities, etc.
It is time to direct much more attention to these domestic mercenaries and human rights abusers.
They are not the same chemicals. They do not have the same effects.
Because pepper spray has been shown to be both more effective and less harmful than Mace, no law enforcement or private security forces issue Mace today.
The ridiculously uniformed security guard in these photos is clearly using pepper spray, not mace (Mace is never dyed orange).
The canister looks like the overpriced "5.0" "law enforcement" line sold by Sabre.
Never. Ever. Spending money in Westlake Mall ever again.
As for racism in the Pacific Northwest, Malcolm X long ago said he'd rather deal with the southern rattlesnake than the northern copperhead because at least you can hear the rattlesnake coming.
As for private corporate mercenary security cops, Spokane is dealing with the insidious and growing jnfluence of these private security force, many wanna-be cops, former military, and off-duty police. In much of the world these private police forces double as death squads. Short of that, these corporate mercenaries operate in a legal space between people free speech and free assembly rights and the law. They harass, intimidate and threaten people on behalf of business interests without oversight of police ombudsmen, civil oversight groups, and the media. The "policing" done by these private police forces often violate civil rights and verge in vigilantism.
I am thankful this man survived this private policing incident gone bad. I am deeply disturbed by the proliferation of these for-profit cops in our libraries, welfare offices, public transit facilities, etc.
It is time to direct much more attention to these domestic mercenaries.
The cop involved, Officer Thomas Christenson, stood by and watched it happen. "Let him do his job," Christenson barked menacingly at would-be rescuers as the assailant placed the victim in hand restraints and led him off the public property and out of view.
Also, my heart broke once I got to that picture of Wilford being arrested and the shirtless man just smugly walking away.
I am planning to move to Seattle, early next year. Should I be fearful of the Popo, the racism, the profiling. I was hoping to move to a better place, currently in Florida.....and we all know the deal in Florida.
Can someone please tell me, that there is something good there and it is worth moving there.
That there are good people there, that racism and prejudice are not the norm.
This is very upsetting to me, and hope that someone will respond to my post.
I need knowledge of the area now, need to know what to look out for and where not to go.
I hope that all are safe.
Be blessed all.
I am planning to move to Seattle, early next year. Should I be fearful of the Popo, the racism, the profiling. I was hoping to move to a better place, currently in Florida.....and we all know the deal in Florida.
Can someone please tell me, that there is something good there and it is worth moving there.
That there are good people there, that racism and prejudice are not the norm.
This is very upsetting to me, and hope that someone will respond to my post.
I need knowledge of the area now, need to know what to look out for and where not to go.
I hope that all are safe.
Be blessed all.
1) First off, Wilford has a right to defend himself. And he had NO DUTY TO RETREAT!! Look up "WA W.P.I.C. 16.08 No Duty To Retreat" so, you can kinda stuff your entire argument #13
2) Self defense is NOT assault. So you can kinda stuff your argument #15
4) Mutual combat is PERFECTLY LEGAL in Seattle, so that should double-down on whether or not this young man is within his rights to square off with an aggressor.
The security guard, however, acted without assessing the situation and without listening to the witnesses on the scene. He got a report for a shirtless white man, yet he maced and arrested the shirt-wearing black man that he WASN'T called on. This is pretty much an open and shut lawsuit here.
#13, I advise you to brush up on Seattle's self defense statutes before you ever, EVER, comment on what is legal or not.
Bankers break the law with securitized mortgages and crash the economy? HEAD FAKE! Foreclose on poor peoples homes.
Saudi terrorists fly planes into a billion dollars of Manhattan real-estate? HEAD FAKE! Invade Iraq.
Crazy shirtless white dude picks fights at the mall? HEAD FAKE! Pepper spray the first black dude you see.
Like I needed another reason not to come in or near this place.
"S. HINDS
ASST. DIRECTOR"
There are four photos of that in the gallery.
And then I noticed there was a number missing from the sequence in the filenames. It seems there was a photo in the middle of the sequence, numbered 2931, that Alex Garland omitted from the gallery. But he (or she?) left the actual image file on the server. I've retrieved that file, and taken the liberty of copying it to imgur on the off chance that Alex decides to delete it in addition to omitting it from the gallery.
Here it is.
Why did Alex remove that photo from the documentary sequence?
Two men were involved in a conflict on some combination of a public sidewalk and the semi-public area outside of a downtown shopping mall that is visually indistinguishable from the surrounding public property: Stuart Hinds, the aggressor, a contractor for General Growth Properties as an employee of Valor Security, assaulted victim Raymond Wilford with a chemical weapon. We've seen photographs of this. Officer Tom Christenson (#5665) of Seattle Police Department showed up shortly thereafter. He observed while Hinds bound Wilford's hands and forcibly took Wilford away against his will. That's kidnapping. Onlookers protested, but were threatened by Christenson, who apparently believed that kidnapping was Hinds' job, that he had no duty to intervene by stopping the crime, and that he should prevent others from intervening. We've seen video of this.
It might be "the least interesting part of the story" for someone with a political agenda that has no room for the question of whether or not a security guard ought to do something about someone who starts throwing punches at a demonstration.
For people who do not have such an agenda, this bout of fisticuffs, and the photo in which it looks quite a bit like the annoying counterprotestor has just taken a punch from Wilford (and which photo immediately precedes the pepper-spraying in the photo collection), is hardly the "least interesting" part of the tale.
The lighting in that photo is not noticeably worse than that in other photos in the series. Surely there's a more plausible explanation for activist photographer Alex Garland removing that image from his photo document?
Hinds works for the mall, not for the people of Seattle. He has no more authority to attack and detain someone than you or I do. Ought you or I do something about someone who starts throwing punches at a demonstration? Maybe. Pepper spray, handcuff, and drag inside? Absolutely not. That would be assault and kidnapping. We shouldn't do it, and it would be unlawful for us to do so.