I'm glad the SPD is doing such a fantastic job of showing why they are the problem. Ricardo's expectation of having an offices cell phone is so discordant with our present mindset, but so obviously part of the community policing solution. Every public space needs a "mayor," that person who knows and is invested, be that a shop keeper, or a block watch captain -- and those mayors need immediate access to back-up they can trust. It's that trust that is missing.

With great frequency it seems to take six-eight police cars to manage one brown drunk in pioneer square. I hate the police a little more each time I witness one of these overreactions.

Free speech does not mean you can say anything you want without judgement or consequence.

But this is really just another example of police officers viewing the people they are supposed to be serving and protecting as enemies and inconveniences. That is the real issue, not that statements were made, or what they specifically were.

They could not have done a better job of proving Guarnero's "organic connection" observation.

Will it surprise anyone to learn that Officer Marion is a gung-ho christian?

When you see four police cars at a traffic stop it shows that three of them either have nothing to do or are shirking their jobs.

Don't let a few bad apples taint the reputations of all cops. We do need community policing that is human and humane. That's lacking in a few cases. I hope that's changed.

Can Chief O'Toole do anything more than say tsk tsk? Hell, I can do that.
She, on the other hand, has the authority to change the way that White Center is policed. So why doesn't she see this as a policing problem instead of a PR problem? Why doesn't she pay attention to the original concern? This response from her shifts the focus from where it belongs - how White Center is policed - to a distraction - what a bunch of internet trolls are working for the police department.

Comments on the post by Officer Christopher M. Gregorio #6827 include:
- Officer Glenn H. Osburn #6715: "I like how he blames the cops for getting busted serving to someone under age."
- Officer John T. Marion #6963: "This guy is sad, pathetic, lost, and self righteous all at the same time."
- Officer Jason R. Ross #7578: "This shop was in my old sector (frank).... All I can say is hmmmmmm... I've responded to a lot if calls in that area.... I guess I'm the one in the Kevlar vest ...wow just wow"
- Officer Michael J. Stankiewicz #6227: "Asshat..."
- Sergeant Alvin F. Little, Jr. #4843: "C'mon folks...you gotta love this. Somefrigginhow, they tied SPD in with Ferguson! And trust me on this, SPD will be blamed for Israel defending itself, the Isis issue and Ebola. Hahahaha...LMBAO!!!" "No Tom...it's sweet chocolate bro...you know that!!"
- Officer Derek B. Norton #6917: "Unfortunately this guy's attitude is all too prevalent."
- Detective Nicholus J. Bauer #5824: "What I recall about Chief Kurlyfries' first big event is that a kid, from White Center, was killed because we couldn't get orders to move and handle the crowd. A few of us later attended the dead kids funeral to apologize for not doing our jobs. If a tard is going to write himself some history, I wish he would refrain from gratuitous lying."

Gee, Officer Krupke,
What are we to do?
Says Officer Krupke:
"Krup you!"

2013 salaries:
John Marion: $111,182
Michael Stankiewicz: $106,209

2011 salaries (source lbloom):

Employee Name | Jobtitle | Department Name | Gross Pay | Regular Pay | Over Time | Hire Date
------------------------+--------------------+-------------------+-----------+-------------+-----------+-----------
Bauer, Nicholus J | Pol Ofcr-Detective | Police Department | 99026.46 | 92268.80 | 3260.46 | 8/31/1992
Gregorio, Christopher | Pol Ofcr-Patrl | Police Department | 97285.60 | 85734.23 | 9301.37 | 7/29/2004
Little Jr, Alvin F | Pol Sgt-Detective | Police Department | 119732.24 | 108430.52 | 7804.52 | 11/5/1984
Marion, John T | Pol Ofcr-Patrl | Police Department | 89963.00 | 77917.03 | 11495.97 | 7/5/2006
Norton, Derek B | Pol Ofcr-Patrl | Police Department | 93681.17 | 81977.76 | 8343.41 | 9/29/2005
Osburn, Glenn H | Pol Ofcr-Patrl | Police Department | 91172.16 | 88000.24 | 2231.92 | 3/19/2001
Ross, Jason R | Pol Ofcr | Police Department | 86820.74 | 81152.74 | 2206.00 | 9/4/2009
Stankiewicz, Michael J | Pol Ofcr-Patrl | Police Department | 85093.37 | 82430.04 | 2113.33 | 3/5/1997

@13

So, basically less than a senior IT contractor and with the possibility of ending up shot and dead.

Yawn. A couple of cops made some mean comments on Facebook. Oh dear! Let them get their aggression out there instead of on the streets. The worst part of the comments is the offhanded r-word (for which the officer should receive a scolding for being an insensitive asshole). Of course cops are going to call you an asshole if you directly criticize them like this. No surprise. It isn't something to get worked up about.

What matters is how SPD leadership responds to the essay. From what I can tell, they haven't, nor do they care other than how their officers are violating their social media policy. The problem here isn't that cops are mocking a business owner on Facebook. The problem is that the SPD under Kerlikowske engaged in vindictive and retaliatory behaviors (which is no surprise to anybody).

I used to work for Ricardo, back in 2006, around the time this was taking place. I was witness to a couple of occasions where SPD showed up and harassed him and his business partner/girlfriend.

I worked the morning/day shift, and didn't see as many of the regular problem causers, but I'd also work the Friday night music events, when there were a lot more people involved. Cops would stop by and harass them over their alcohol barriers, claiming they needed to be permanent, despite the fact that almost no businesses have permanent barriers on their patios for special events.

We served bottled beer and house wine to world music performances. It was hardly a rowdy crowd; people in their 30s, 40s, and 50s mostly. They hosted community organizing events, and local artists on a regular basis. There were beginning Spanish courses offered on weekends.

The place wasn't perfect, it was slow and the business wasn't pulling in profits, I'd have to call before depositing my paycheck to make sure it would clear. Despite the unsteadiness of business, money would be moved from their personal accounts when necessary to cover my check. I was willing, at the time, to wait a couple of days. I never once doubted their honesty and dedication to improving the community.

It's do befitting, that like a gang of thugs themselves, SPD officers harass Ricardo online over a post critical of their practices. Shit, the people he called out don't even work for SPD anymore. The Justice Dept. DID order organizational changes, because of their policies and lack of accountability. They successfully have driven home his point that they have absolutely no connection with the community they serve.

I'd love for someone at The Stranger to do some research into whether any of these officers were on the clock when posting online. Can one get a public records request on scheduled shifts? If so, cross reference those with the time stamp of the posts. They're assholes for posting what they did anyway; but if they're on the clock, they have to be in violation of some internal policy, right?

@14: as well as sheltering from any responsibility for harming or killing people on the job--a job with less liklihood of death of the worker than that of roofer

Speaking of odd comments...does anyone remember back when Publicola was its own site, just before the tunnel vote. There must have been 100 different anonymous accounts with people browbeating anyone who wasn't pro-dig.
Whatever happened to all those "people"? They couldn't have all been cops, and why would a cop necessarily support a tunnel. Who were those guys?

@17

Well, they DO get to get stalked by a creep like you as well.

Wonder why SPD officers see the whiny girly men citizens they patrol as the problem? Inexplicable how being passive aggressively hated (you don't have the balls to say any of this to an SPD officer, do you buddy?) makes you feel like the citizens you help keep safe are really the problem.

But hey, tough guy, keep anonymously attacking good men and women doing a job you're wholly unfit to do. It helps the few decent citizens in Seattle know with whom to side.

@14 being a cop is one of the safer occupations, in fact. Much lower risk of death than logging or fishing or flying airplanes or even taxi-driving, farming, roofing. And the most common cause of death for police officers is not getting shot but getting in a traffic accident.

@19, the only "whiny girly men" in this story is the steroidal twit John Marion and his ridiculous buddies who need three squad cars to scare away a homeless dude.

What I really object to is the fact that John Marion "likes" Ted Nugent. That says it all right there.

Oh silly SB. You're still shamelessly peddling your fake machismo and invalidated worldviews, reminiscent of Brits pining for the empire or Japanese soldiers fighting WW2 into the 70s? Hahahahahaha

@19: I'm hardly anonymous, and I'm not stalking anyone, just repeating their comments that were made publicly and referencing public records about their jobs as public servants.

@ 23, remember - when you take the public comments of public servants like that, the reactionary nature of their opinions makes it HARASSMENT. If they were progressive, it would be just, especially if you also distort and alter their quotes to make them loom bad.

The Seattleblah code of ethics is clear. It's bad if his side looks bad, but good if it makes his opponents look bad. Jesus said so!

They do have every right to give their opinions. It's just that their tendency to troll the internet, including here, with sophomoric comments makes us really question their judgment. They are actively trolling for any negative comments on the SPD and instead of challenging them with any sort of facts they resort to name calling.

A peace officer, especially being paid over 100K, should really be much more professional.

Since I believe 99% of them are, why can't we just rid of the few that aren't.

The Onion today: Unpopular Police Officer Thinking About Committing Racially Motivated Offense For A Little Support

http://www.theonion.com/articles/unpopul…

@19

Of course nobody in their right mind would actively talk shit to a cops face. But it's not because individual officers are badasses. It's because it will never, ever be a fair fight. The cops have endless resources and backup leaving an individual citizen totally at their mercy, no matter how big of a coward or weakling the individual officer might be. Your point in moot.

@14 And a helluva lot more than most folks who have truly dangerous jobs.

The interesting point of Guarnero's thoughtful piece is maybe getting lost here. It's NOT a hipster anti-cop diatribe; in fact, it's solidly pro-police -- but a certain kind of police. Community-based, non-militarized, concerned with the welfare of the populace, friendly but firm in defense of the law and the citizenry.

What he's objecting to is the SPD model, which is the exact opposite of all of those things, which treats every member of the community as if they were a dangerous criminal and human garbage, who regard the pleas of law-abiding people and business owners for help with contempt.

The SPD has a deep sickness inside itself. It's been there for a long time. Everybody knows it; most SPD officers know it. It's been in the public discussion for several years now, but it's getting worse, not better. I wish I could say that I believed Chief O'Toole was going to be able to do anything about it, but I don't.

You have a real crisis of confidence in your officers and your department, Chief O'Toole.

@19: Phil M is only more anonymous than any of the staffers here because you're too lazy to go find one of the posts he signed with his full last name. On the other hand, you're the epitome of anonymous grousing about other people. If the dress fits...

What Fnarf said.

We don't need a military mindset in our police, but it's what we've got here in Seattle judging from the comments that we get from the police here and from their union reps.
SPD needs to focus more on, dare I say it, a customer service type of mindset. Of course they should be busting criminals, but interacting with the general public should not be this adversarial relationship. Maybe getting the cops out of their cars occasionally and getting to know the people in the neighborhood would be a good place to start.

The power of the police officers Guild here is a frickin mess. Given the aggressive mindset and ideas of the thugs on the force, and their significant numbers, I'm at a loss to see how the SPD can be changed. It wouldn't hurt if the half to two thirds of the apple barrel that isn't rotten stopped covering for the others, but between the blue line, and the obvious vindictive thugishness of the rotten apples and the Guild, I don't expect we'll see much activity there. We haven't seen it so far.

@33 I don't think Marion and the many like him are reformable. Sorry. The Guild has taken pride in their "occupying force" mindset for so long, I'm sure all these guys laugh when they read shit like Chief O'Toole's comment. Chiefs have come and gone for years, and no one has been able to shift the gang. This doesn't need a DOJ civil rights investigation. It needs DOJ RICO laws investigation.

P.S. Free speech laws and union agreements won't protect someone in the real world from being fired for publicly attacking their employer's customers. But evidently the standard for police behavior in the United States right now is a free pass as long as the behavior is not worse than a violent urban street thug. I think police should be held to a higher standard than that.

Shit, just go to the anonymous (ie police officer) comments to see how infantile these grown men are. The other one half to 2/3 of the force must have to maintain a constant state of denial to keep themselves from being in a chronic state of shame.

I challenge anyone to direct me to another employer in King County that allows employees to regularly present themselves publicly as such total infantile assholes, whether on or off the clock.

@36: We , the Citizenry, are the coppigs' ultimate employers, and the pigs have been fucking with Persons of Color, Leftists, and the Lower Class since Day One!

Marion isn't the biggest, whiniest loser on the force, he's just the most visible thanks to his sheer idiocy.

@1: Waaahhh!! Freedom of speech isn't freedom from the consequences of speech! Waaahhh!!

@15: "Of course cops are going to call you an asshole if you directly criticize them like this."

What a great way to connect with the community whose trust they've already lost! What a bunch of losers. Let them cry about that. At the end of the day, they're still supposed to be the adults here, and they have yet to prove that they can behave as such. It doesn't matter if civilians are a little mean to them sometimes. They either need to learn to let the criticism roll of their backs, or they need to take it to heart and start doing better for the community they claim to serve. The correct answer is NOT for them to turn around and act as childishly as they perceive the community to be. That's completely unacceptable.

@19: The anonymous commenters on this rag of a dump site actually ARE better suited to defend the community than this humdrum gang of losers. Deal with it.

@40,

A far more apt comparison would be a teacher going online and trash talking parents and/or students. That does have consequences, by the way. I've heard of teachers getting fired for that shit.

oh gods.. wait till you look at the facebook page for the SPD guild.

https://www.facebook.com/seattlepolicegu…

there is.. a lot of interesting comments in there.

Dominic is a dick, he probably had it coming.

Sheriff Steve Cox set a standard that nobody in the SPD can match...and unfortunately they're not interested in trying to.

The SPD officers effectively confirmed the comments of Ricardo Guarnero with their belittlement of him.

The culture of the department needs to change. Building trust is hard...but it can be done and as Ricardo Guarnero noted, one Sheriff DID it. It's not the $40, it's the talking to people, respecting them, listening to them. That allows you to proactively police and work at preventing the crimes from occurring rather than reacting when they're done.

Everyone wins in the proactive prevention scenario...nobody is 'winning' in the law enforcement world of the SPD. The citizens are victimized, the officers job is more dangerous when they're not trusted, the perpetrators become more bold, commit bigger crimes and are caught less frequently. Seattle loses, everyone loses.

Several comments lamented why young people don't want to be SPD...well of course not. They see how SPD behaves, see how others view them, why would you take a position where you would be hated and disrespected? It's a bad 'company' to join and it needs to be fixed.

Us vs. them - how police like these view their jobs.

These cops need to take an IQ test because they're obviously not too bright, judging by their oblivious use of Facebook.

@34: Gee, you're surprised that folks who grew up in Seattle don't want to work with a bunch of cops who dislike Seattleites? Imagine that.

I should have said this many times previously, but I'll say it now: Thanks, Phil M.. As a white guy, there is still a part of me that is surprised that in the U.S., in Seattle, it takes more than a little courage to point out police misconduct. The new chief said it right, police culture won't change until we figure out how to recruit to SPD people who understand their role as public servants. Thanks, Phil, for helping to shine the light into the dark corners of policing in Seattle.

And @15, no, how the SPD administration reacts is not the only important thing; it's extremely important what the beat cops do and say. Someone making over $100K to act as protector of the community better damn well do that instead of mouthing off like a ten-year-old on the net.

Until the "good" cops start publicly condemning the actions of the cops who clearly have nothing but contempt for the people and the constitution they have sworn to protect, they are all Officer Birk in my book.

In particular, I hope to never come across Officer Christopher M. Gregorio #6827, Officer Glenn H. Osburn #6715, Officer Jason R. Ross #7578, Officer Michael J. Stankiewicz #6227, Sergeant Alvin F. Little, Jr. #4843, Officer Derek B. Norton #6917, Detective Nicholus J. Bauer #5824, or Officer John T. Marion #6963 in my travels around the city. But if I do, I will make sure they know just who exactly is "sad", "lost", "pathetic", and a waste of our tax dollars.

To answer the question of why intelligent young people in Seattle don't want to be SPD: The pay is not great, at all. The pay figures posted here by other commenters include a TON of overtime. If you look at the actual hourly wage (not OT, straight pay) to work rotating shift work (which really sucks) in a job where you get spit on, feces chucked at you, bottles thrown at you, etc. Why would anyone want to do it? I make more than an SPD cop working a clerical position for the city, and don't have to change my life every 3 months for rotating shifts, or have to work 16 hour shifts to get enough OT to make enough to not have to commute from Yelm. Cops can't afford to live IN Seattle with families, unless they work insane amounts of OT. That is why I, personally, wouldn't work for SPD. OT might seem great, until you're 45 or older and 16 hours in a car followed by 8 hours off then 16 more, becomes hard on the body and soul.

@57: Bullshit. My comment @13 shows numbers for gross pay, regular pay, and overtime pay, of SPD staff.

The officers at topic here were earning between $78,000 and $108,000 of regular pay three years ago. That's nothing to sneeze at, and it's significantly more than the majority of people who live in Seattle earn.