Comments

1
I think the pot store should protest the church and call for the church's shutdown.

The pot store is contributing to the economy and the well being of the country. The church is a drain on resources and a waste of space.
2
What Do You Call a Group of Local DUI Attorneys?

Human parasites.
3
Oh tee-hee Christopher, you got a little sophomoric prankster fun with your Mercer Island and Ebola lead-in.

Oh, I suppose I should lighten up. But you're the current editor. I guess I'm too much of the old school.
4
Having a legal pot store will reduce the illegal street sales which obviously have no age restrictions. So the church folks ought to at least rejoice that this is an effort to control drugs to the underage as well as get other at risk folks out of the business of illegal drug sales. or is it entirely a matter of appearances, back-alleys be damned, for this righteous community?
5
And Paul Revere died.
6
Good for SCOTUS, 30 down 20 to go.
7
Also with the pot store, I liked the end comment if you don't oppose the liquor store can't oppose the pot one. Be consistent
8
churches, mosques, temples, etc. don't have to pay taxes. we pick up the slack for their bullshit religions with our tax dollars.

so churches, especially storefront churches, can STFU.
9
because nobody that goes to church enjoys pot.
10
I was expecting a bigger Slog reaction to the US Supreme Court decision this morning.
11
Oh yes, and enthusiastic thumbs up for @1.
12
Same sex marriages are starting in VA in 35 minutes at 1PM.

Some great analysis of what the Supreme Court did today and what it means for marriage equality throughout the nation:

http://www.scotusblog.com/2014/10/many-m…
13
@ 10, ever since Washington passed same sex marriage, Slog has been rather "meh" about the progress of marriage equality. I expect them to make a big deal out of universal marriage equality when it finally happens, but they otherwise don't seem to care too much.
14
15 year old shot in the chest in Spokane. A group of teens were playing with a gun. No adults present.

No charges will be filed because none of these things are against the law. Just an accident.
15
@1. People who participate in church, mosque, or synagogue are less likely then the general population to commit suicide. These institutions also provide other measurable social benefits, and cost reductions to society. You don't have to like them or participate in them, but to say they contribute nothing is factually incorrect.
16
Justin over at Capitol Hill Seattle yesterday put up a great post covering the bejabbers out of the church protest. This is really great work, and on a shoestring! http://www.capitolhillseattle.com/2014/1…
17
Re: SCOTUS decision on The Gay
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/a…
Seattleblues can kiss my shiny metal ass.
18
Some churches scream about LGBT people et al getting "special rights", yet they get special land use and zoning privileges.
19
@15,
Your first sentence is a correlation.

As for churches et al. contributing to society. I'll give you that. Many of them do contribute. However, I can think of many other businesses that would contribute far more than a church. A pot store is one. In the battle between pot store vs. church, if there can be only one, the church should lose every time.
20
The pastor wants his cut.
21
Also, register to vote. If you don't vote, you're part of the problem. So get your shit together!
22
Great Bruce Lee quote on 94.9 on Saturday morning, "empty your mind, be formless. Shapeless, like water. If you put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle and it becomes the bottle. You put it in a teapot, it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend.”
23
Jews should move from Spokane? So how many MORE places do Jews need to flee from? STUPID Stranger!!!!
24
Funny how the church doesn't have any objections to the nearby liquor store.
25
@23: Get a grip. What was said was that Spokane is maybe a little too close to uncivilized areas of our nation.
26
@14. I read a more detailed account at the Spokesman Review. Based on that there are a number of charges that could be filed. Criminally negligent homicide for one. The trigger puller violated a fundamental rule of handling firearms. The teens then concocted and colluded to create a cover story. That is obstruction and aiding and abetting the homicide perpetrator after the fact.

The parents can't be charged for allowing unsupervised access to the firearms (that was tried in the Bremerton case where an elementary school girl was shot by a classmate who brought an unsecured handgun to school in a backpack), but they can be sued and should be. We also should look to a new state law on the subject.

We charge people for criminally negligent homicide when they don't properly use a vehicle in a prudent manner. We sue them to. Firearms misuse should be no different.

What the penalty should be for the teens involved is an open question in my mind. Current state laws on juvenile sentencing don't focus enough on rehabilitative justice and focus too much on incarceration. That said, the teens all need to be charged and judged for their actions.
27
@17 The canon is "bite," not kiss.
28
funny how the church never seemed to be up in arms about the open air drug market that was at this same corner for many years ...
29
@19. In the short-run, and focusing on one municipalities revenue, perhaps. But you could also make the same argument about the hospitals all over First Hill. They are net consumers of tax-dollars, not producers. Many of them are non-profit and exempt from many taxes, but if you look more broadly at it, would we conclude we would be better off without the people they treat and return to being productive, tax-generating, employees in our communities? Churches, Synagogues, Mosques, and the like do likewise by treating the soul, bringing people into community, creating expectations that members act morally and put their innate selfish nature aside and focus on the needs of others.
30
@29,
That's a good point about hospitals.

As for churches treating the soul and encouraging people to act morally, that's kind of a subjective assertion. One person's vices are another's virtues. Although I agree with some moral teachings from religious groups, I rarely agree with all of them (the focus of this discussion... this church morally objecting to this business, is a perfect example).
Further, I don't feel it's the business of the church to teach morals or focus on others or bring community together. I would much rather have a non-religious group do things to foster community. A community center or something.
31
@16 shoestring? No expense spared
32
Friends just got gay married in Salt Lake. They were in line the last time when the narrow-minded religious asswipes who run the state shut them down. Now the LDS faithful - in particular the hate-filled group of old white men at the top known as the Quorum- just met Karma. And of course, Mike Lee is now saying the decision doesn't matter because the Supreme Court justices are not elected. What a prick. But watching the collective head explosion across the state should be fun.
33
@26

It's very misleading to talk about "fundamental rules of firearms". Treat every gun as if it were loaded. Never point it at anything you don't intend to kill. "Rules", really?

There's no law against violating these "rules". You aren't required to know these "rules" before you buy a gun. If you kill somebody violating these so-called "rules", it will be ruled an "accident" and no charges will be filed.

There are no "rules" of firearms. They're suggestions, at best. The NRA has taken a very clear position on this. Suggestions only. Just some kindly advice. Not something anybody must do.

There's actual rules for things like swimming pool covers or child car seats or having a sturdy enough lid on your trash to keep out raccoons. But guns? Ain't no gun rules. Only suggestions.
34
@15 georgeingeorgetown - "People who participate in church, mosque, or synagogue are less likely then the general population to commit suicide."



*than ...

But in all seriousness... REFERENCES PLEASE, because that reeks of ass (as if you're just speaking out of yours).

Especially since it's been found that religion doesn't make one more moral; http://goo.gl/TysxFM
35
The pot protest on 23rd and Union reminded me of a fight here in DC some 8 years ago when a gay bar tried to open across the street from a church in a gentrifying area of the city. Here is a link to the story when it was happening:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con…

The bar opened but has since closed.
36
@29 Religion is and was the cause of great suffering throughout history. That a few "focus on the needs of others" is debatable. The focus is on money and finding a way to bring others on board. Whether that be by flattery or force, is neither here nor there.
37
@29 georgeingeorgetown - "Churches, Synagogues, Mosques, and the like do likewise by treating the soul, bringing people into community, creating expectations that members act morally and put their innate selfish nature aside and focus on the needs of others."

Again... SOME churches may do that, but that doesn't mean all do, nor does it mean that members actually follow their advice.
Because again... it's been found that religion doesn't make one more moral; http://goo.gl/TysxFM

So as Urgutha Forka correctly states in #30, that assertion is totally subjective so not all all universally true.
38
@27: GYAHH! Should have Googled first.
39
@30. There is no such thing as a "non-religious Group". Every group and individual has a view about the nature of man, whether God or gods exist (e.g. humanists make each human their own god because morality, right and wrong, flow from within them) or who that is, whether truth is absolute or relative, etc. Agnostic is described as "the most neutral" religious point of view. It is not neutral. If you don't believe God exists you are an Atheist. Those are all religious points of view and there are organized churches and organization representing all the points of view I have alluded to.

A non-religious group is a myth. Their may be groups like a bicycling club that organize around that activity, but even then every person that is part of the group has a religion, and if you aggregate those views together you will have a, at least in part, set of views and positions informed by a religious points of view.
40
@39,
Ok, let me say then that I don't want an organization who's primary purpose is the spreading of a specific religious viewpoint, serving as the community center.

Yes, everyone has their own opinions and beliefs about different faiths and religions. And yes, those will often manifest themselves in people's decisions and behaviors. However, the community centers should be non-religious affiliated and run like every other secular business. No religion is shunned and no religion is elevated... in a sense, leave religion out of it all together.
41
"...leave religion out of it all together." Better said than done. The papist Scalia is proof of that.
42
Islamic law forbids alcohol but not marijuana. Use of hash is traditional in the Middle East. I doubt the mosque will object to that new pot store.
43
@5



Not again.
44
From the comment thread at capitolhillseattle.com, it appears that Mount Calvary Church isn't a very good neighbor:

Gilberto Hedges_Blanquez on Monday, October 6, 2014 - 1:15 pm said:
I have lived in the Central Area around the corner from the Mount Cavalry Christian Center since 1989. When we first moved into our neighborhood; the corner of 23rd and Union was a drug haven for dealers. Many of our neighbors were older residents that had been shut in by all the drug traffic. My family decided we had to do something in order for our son to be able to play outside without having to fear for his safety by drug dealers and drive by shootings which were happening every day. We set out forming a block watch group with the neighbors who were living here already and the new neighbors that were moving into the neighborhood. With the help of the City of Seattle and Seattle police we were able to get street lights, traffic circles, and assistance in our clean up ventures. We did neighborhood walks around the neighborhood in which we were able to let the drug dealers know that it was our neighborhood not theirs. Our monthly clean-up crews cleaned up Union, 23rd (in front of Mount Cavalry Christian Center), 21st, 24th, and up and down Pine and Pike streets. We passed out flyers to the neighborhood business’ and churches (we went in and talked to the pastor of MCC) to assist with our clean up and block watch walks. During all this we did get help from business’s but never heard or received assistance from Mount Cavalry. The only thing that Mount Cavalry has helped our neighborhood with is illegal parking and traffic problems. Problems that we have lived with and have accepted as part of our neighborhood. Most of our neighbors may not all support marijuana or other drugs use, but after living thru hell trying to clean up the neighborhood from illegal drug dealings we are comfortable with Uncle Ike’s Pot Shop setting up in our neighborhood. Like every business they have to follow the laws set up by the state. And since they opened the area around their building has been clean of garbage and illegal drug dealing. So I say welcome to our neighborhood.

45
@42: IIRC, certain Islamic writings mention Heaven to be a place where you're given wine that doesn't make you drunk.
46
@39:
A non-religious group is a myth. Their [sic] may be groups like a bicycling club that organize around that activity, but even then every person that is part of the group has a religion, and if you aggregate those views together you will have a, at least in part, set of views and positions informed by a religious points of view.
That does not, in any conceivable sense, make that bicycle club a "religious group". If religion has nothing to do with whatever a group has organized around, then it is a non-religous group.

By your rationale, churches are cycling groups as well, and book clubs, and gardening clubs and mountaineering clubs etc. ad infinitum. Your assertion is so preposterously wrong I can barely critique it.
47
@26 Manslaughter is defined in the RCW as "recklessly causing the death of another." "Recklessly" has a commonly understood legal definition that includes failure to act as a reasonably prudent person would or with disregard for another. So those firearms "rules" come into play because they have bearing o what it means to act "recklessly".
48
@40, The values, even at the community center, are coming from somewhere, and I guarantee you they are religious. They are humanist, theist, agnostic, atheist, etc. They have a view about who or what is God, the source of moral absolutes, whether morality is totally relative (humanism, "I am God"). The trick is tolerance for those with differing gods than yours. That said, somebody's religion's point of view is prevailing to create the rules and norms of that community center.
49
@48:
The values, even at the community center, are coming from somewhere, and I guarantee you they are religious. They are humanist, theist, agnostic, atheist, etc.
No, they are not (necessarily) religious. Humanism is not a religion. Atheism is not a religion. "I don't believe in any gods" is not a religious statement any more than "I didn't see it" is a movie review. It may be a statement about religion, but that does not make it a "religious statement".

You have this weird desire to see everything as some flavor of religion, when in fact it is possible for some things to have absolutely nothing to do with it. Your lens through which you look at the world is telling you "something in everyone's life must play the role of God, so if someone says they're a humanist, that means they see themselves as God." No. I am an atheist, and I suppose you could call me a humanist, but I do not believe that "the role of God" is filled by me, or by people, or by anything else. There is no role to be filled in the first place. People are people, no more and no less.
50
Webster's disagrees with you. Agnostic is stated to be "the most neutral religion". You attempt to win the argument by "definition" which is a rhetorical fallacy.

There are humanist churches, there are atheist "churches". They have a beliefs about God, the nature of mankind, etc. They have faith in something or someone as the ultimate power.
51
@50: Wait...so trying to win an argument "by definition" is a rhetorical fallacy, but your argument is that Webster's disagrees with me?

I stand by my point. You see morality in a religious framework, and this colors your perception of how everyone else thinks about it. I know that many people derive their morality from religion, but I do not, and my thoughts on it are consequently not religious.
52
51, What I am saying is that the way you see morality is through no less of a religious framework. Since every framework has a view about God, its religious. There is no religion neutral viewpoint. Atheism, the non-existence of god, or gods. Agnosticism, the view that one can't know if God exists. Values come from within? Humanism. Can't get away from it.

You are non-religious? Nobody is. Whatever viewpoint you are coming from has a view about god, non-god, and an organized group to support like mined individuals. Sounds like religion to me, and the dictionary agrees. You can't arbitrarily re-define terms just to make something so.
53
'@51, "A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence." - Wikipedia Do you know a human being that does not have a "collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence?"

": a cause, principle, or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith" Merriam-Webster's on line free dictionary. No anybody who doesn't have a system of beliefs?




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