Comments

1
Great. Another "toolkit" to bog down the already glacial hiring practice.



Here's something to mull over: years ago, the city (or maybe it was just a City Light thing) had a program called "upward mobility". It was for people in lower-paying jobs to job shadow people in higher-paying jobs. If they liked the job, they could receive training to do that job. Many women took advantage of that, and it was quite beneficial for them. It was also practical, unglamorous, and note particularly photogenic for politicians, which is why we're not likely to see it again.


2
Is this native advertising or an editorial? Was there a point or perspective buried somewhere in that boilerplate political puffery?

@1 Your suggestion sounds so much better, but what wouldn't be better than another recruiter charged with collecting more EEO data.

I was looking for another reason to hate politicians because I really just didn't have enough. So thanks for that anyway.
3
@1-2 you both keep voting and advocating for king county leftist this is what you get
4
"The central cause of the "problem", however, does not appear to be within groups of employees doing the same work. Our city strives to compensate similarly situated employees—those in the same job class with similar experience and qualifications—equally regardless of their gender...."



There is no problem, fuckwit.



Males and Females are paid the same for the same work and experience.



In Seattle and everywhere else.



The "problem" is not a problem, it is a fact of biology.



Sit down, girls; prepare to have your world rocked.....

'

Males and females are; intrinsically, innately, biologically, emotionally, genetically different.



They have different strengths, needs.



That is reflected in the "Family". Moms and Dads are different. Parenting is not just throwing two adults into a household.



It is reflected in the workplace. Males and Females will gravitate to different occupations, will have differing skill levels at different occupations. Left to their own devices Males and Females will not work in the same occupations at the same levels.



Decreeing that the sum income of all women must equal the sum income of all men is an artificial, and idiotic, construct.



Which means the HomoLiberal Left will rush headlong into it until the economy is ground into a dysfunctional disaster.
5
Troll dear, to be sure, I would never vote for a Republican. But it would nice to be tempted once in a while. Instead, the GOP apparently has a never-ending clown car of petulant and ignorant candidates. That's fine for the sticks, and places like Bellevue, but not in the city. So instead of blaming "king county leftists", why don't you and your cronies mount some candidates that people can take seriously?
6
@1 that sounds kind of like the current "out of class" program that exists in at least some departments. I know a number of people (actually, all women now that I think of it) who have taken advantage of it to train and move up the ranks. It's pretty neat and it works well.
7
@4: It's a nice story, but it doesn't add up. Only about 60% of the observed wage gap can be explained by disparities in experience and similar factors. So tell me, O Wise Anon, why are men somehow better suited to be doctors than are women?
8
How about downward mobility. Have the pompous politicians and writers of news train with, learn from, and aspire to the lower class. Listen to DEVO. Mock DEVO. live the de-evolution.

Probably get a "been there done that" pompous response, but still worth a shot.
9
now Junior, if we spoon feed you you will never get any smarter.



here is a chance to use that expensive degree:



List three occupations men are innately more suited for and three women are. Discuss why.
10
Hernandez, out of class is just a labor designation, and they're doing it because the city budget office is hopeless. it's actually sort of cruel, and very wasteful.



Upward Mobility was a program that actually invested in employees, and worked with them to "better themselves" as they used to say.
11
@7, because so many of the women who want to be in healthcare chose nursing over MD ?

http://fox13now.com/2013/03/05/gender-pa…
In 2011, men made up close to 10 percent of all registered nurses.
12
@11



Same old bs from you by answering the question you made up instead of the one asked.
13
@12, you mean I didn't answer the strawman question about why men are better suited for a profession and instead pointed out that healthcare-minded women dominating a related profession might lead to fewer women MDs ?
15
@13: Women don't dominate nursing because they'd rather be nurses than doctors. They do so because, for literally centuries, professions like midwifery and nursing were pretty much the only medical careers that were open to them. Educate yourself.

Women in Medicine isn't a bad place to start:
Women's participation in the medical professions was generally limited by law and practice during the decades while medicine was professionalizing. However, women openly practic[ed] medicine in the allied health fields (nursing, midwifery, etc.)... through the latter half of the twentieth century, women had gains generally across the board. In the United States, for instance, women were 9% of total US medical school enrollment in 1969; this had increased to 20% in 1976. By 1985, women comprised 14% of practicing US physicians.


Gains have been made in the last forty to fifty years, but it takes more time than that to overcome such a deep historical bias.

The same applies to any field that folks like you point to as "man's work" or "women's work." Historical gender bias has led to male domination of certain professions. By some strange coincidence, those professions also just happen to pay more than the professions where historical gender bias has led to female domination.
16
@13 you are dumber than a box of rocks.
17
@16
That seems really unfair, seeing as how a box of rocks can be extremely dumb. But I guess the truth isn't always fair.
19
"folks like you", "dumb as rocks", "computer algorithm" ?

Christ you're a surly, intolerant lot. If you prick me, I do bleed, assholes.
20
@19 If "folks like you" pricks you until you bleed, you must be one thin-skinned fellow.

My original edit included the words "moron" and "mouth-breather" but I took them out because I felt personal attacks would distract from my point. I see I needn't have bothered.

Care to get off the fainting couch, unclutch your pearls, and address my points @15?
21
@9: Men are on average better suited to fill jobs where the primary task is lifting heavy objects (very few jobs are like this) because they tend to have more muscle mass. Women are better suited to serve as wet-nurses because they can lactate and men generally do not.
Medical practice doesn't focus on heavy lifting or lactation. So tell me why it is that men are, according to you, better suited to be doctors than women are. Please don't try to avoid the question again; it makes you seem scared and pathetic.
22
I didn't suggest that men are necessarily better doctors. That's your straw man words.

Truth of the matter.... a significant portion of the division between nursing and MD probably comes from the differential in length of education, high cost of education, and the ticking biological clock women face. Nursing has a few more "pause points" along the career path that help accommodate pregnancy.
23
@22: Now you are just making shit up.
25
@22: Do you know what numbers are?
@24: I think I'll pass on reading your weird and creepy blog. Did you parents have any children who lived?
26
21



we never said anything about physicians.



you picked one very obvious physical trait related category of occupations per gender; a six year old could have done that.

have you already forgotten everything they tried to teach you about evolutionary biology?

list three occupations per gender that each is innately better suited by temperament and disposition to perform.
27
@23 No really, women get pregnant. It's true. You can look it up.
28
@27 Well, I suppose he had to get something right.
29
@26: Oh? You don't think that men are inherently more qualified than women to be physicians? Then explain why male doctors tend to be paid substantially more than female doctors.

As far as invoking evolutionary biology to try and make a case for men and women having meaningful differences in "temperament and disposition" goes, you're out of your league, kid. Here's some ACTUAL evolutionary biology for you:
Well first, actually, here's some basic biology. There is a gene on the Y chromosome of humans called SRY which acts as sort of a "master switch" for maleness. It activates a variety of other genes during embryogenesis, overtly changing some things like the genitalia and subtly changing other things like attraction and arousal centers in the brain. That is how embryos go from the female default to the male state.
Now on to the evolutionary biology. Gender-based differences within a species are known as sexual dimorphisms. Now, where do those sexual dimorphisms come from? Almost without exception SRY epistasis is involved in the manifestation of the male phenotype. That is, a single gene does not cause a male trait; rather, SRY's action or that of a gene downstream of it regulates the expression of a gene found in males and females. (The Y chromosome, excluding the pseudo-autosomal region, is the only part of the genome found in one sex but not the other. Sexual dimorphisms are typically not tied to genes on it other than SRY.) Basically, sexual dimorphisms are the result of autosomal gene expression being influenced by SRY in males, and not being influenced by SRY in females. Therefore these sexual dimorphisms must be different versions of the same trait, not the results of a trait-specific male gene or female gene.
In order for a sexual dimorphism to be evolved in a taxon, there must be some form of selection for it; the populations we're talking about here are large enough that we can generally ignore genetic drift. The selection is going to be sexual in nature for obvious reasons; if a phenotype didn't involve sexual competition or the differential strain of gametogenesis plus gestation over gametogenesis alone it would be equally advantageous for males and females alike. In order for such a dimorphic trait to be selected for in this way, it must have some bearing on reproduction. The sexual dimorphisms of humans make sense in light of this! Mate selection in humans has historically been determined by a male competition/female choice model, and so men have typically more muscle mass and heightened aggression. Childbearing is a substantial stress on women, so the female body tends to retain larger fat reserves to nourish a fetus, which it displays in the characteristic large breasts and buttocks of females as a sign of fecundity. There are more differences, of course, but the main point is made. Notice that apart from the heightened aggression of males, the differences are purely physiological; there is very little sex-linked difference in psychology! Notice also that our professions tend to emphasize thinking and acting rather than raw displays of physical strength, meaning that the differences in physiology don't actually make a difference.
Does that all make sense to you? If not, maybe you need to earn a degree in bioscience from one of the finest universities in the world, or possibly from any university.

I'm not going to make your arguments for you. What makes you think that men are more innately qualified to be doctors than women are?
30
29



So, if we get a degree in bioscience from one of the finest universities in the world do you think we might score a job in the stockroom with you?



.



We admit, that is an impressive pile obfuscating bullshit. We dearly hope you cut and pasted that drivel and didn't waste your time making it up.



We don't know if you are just trolling or really are ignorant of the fact that men and women are intrinsically fundamentally different. (you should try spending some time with normal girls. Even if you have to pay them for their time....)



Here is a brief survey article to get you pointed in the right direction.



from WebMD.....



How Male and Female Brains Differ

Researchers reveal sex differences in the brain's form and function.



Research highlights a long-held suspicion about the brains of males and females. They're not the same. So how does the brain of a female look and function differently from a male's brain, and what accounts for these differences?



Disparities Start Early in Life

Scientists now know that sex hormones begin to exert their influence during development of the fetus. A recent study by Israeli researchers that examined male and female brains found distinct differences in the developing fetus at just 26 weeks of pregnancy. The disparities could be seen when using an ultrasound scanner. The corpus callosum -- the bridge of nerve tissue that connects the right and left sides of the brain -- had a thicker measurement in female fetuses than in male fetuses.



Observations of adult brains show that this area may remain stronger in females. "Females seem to have language functioning in both sides of the brain," says Martha Bridge Denckla, PhD, a research scientist at Kennedy Krieger Institute.



Consider these recent findings. Researchers, using brain imaging technology that captures blood flow to "working" parts of the brain, analyzed how men and women process language. All subjects listened to a novel. When males listened, only the left hemisphere of their brains was activated. The brains of female subjects, however, showed activity on both the left and right hemispheres.



This activity across both hemispheres of the brain may result in the strong language skills typically displayed by females. "If there's more area dedicated to a set of skills, it follows that the skills will be more refined," says David Geary, PhD, professor of psychological sciences at the University of Missouri.



As a whole, girls outperform boys in the use of language and fine motor skills until puberty, notes Denckla. Boys also fall prey to learning disabilities more frequently than girls. "Clinics see a preponderance of boys with dyslexia," Denckla tells WebMD. ADHD also strikes more boys than girls. The symptoms displayed by girls and boys with ADHD differ, too. Girls with ADHD usually exhibit inattention, while affected boys are prone to lack of impulse control. But not all differences favor girls.



Boys generally demonstrate superiority over female peers in areas of the brain involved in math and geometry. These areas of the brain mature about four years earlier in boys than in girls, according to a recent study that measured brain development in more than 500 children. Researchers concluded that when it comes to math, the brain of a 12-year-old girl resembles that of an 8-year-old boy. Conversely, the same researchers found that areas of the brain involved in language and fine motor skills (such as handwriting) mature about six years earlier in girls than in boys.



So, do these sex differences even out over time?



Females and males maintain unique brain characteristics throughout life. Male brains, for instance, are about 10% larger than female brains. But bigger doesn't necessarily mean smarter.



Disparities in how certain brain substances are distributed may be more revealing. Notably, male brains contain about 6.5 times more gray matter -- sometimes called 'thinking matter" -- than women. Female brains have more than 9.5 times as much white matter, the stuff that connects various parts of the brain, than male brains. That's not all. "The frontal area of the cortex and the temporal area of the cortex are more precisely organized in women, and are bigger in volume," Geary tells WebMD. This difference in form may explain a lasting functional advantage that females seem to have over males: dominant language skills.



How Males and Females Use Mental Skills

Geary suggests that women use language skills to their advantage. "Females use language more when they compete. They gossip, manipulate information," he says. Geary suggests that this behavior, referred to as relational aggression, may have given females a survival advantage long ago. "If the ability to use language to organize relationships was of benefit during evolutionary history, and used more frequently by women, we would expect language differences to become exaggerated," he tells WebMD. Women also use language to build relationships, theorizes Geary. "Women pause more, allow the other friend to speak more, offer facilitative gestures," he says.



When it comes to performing activities that require spatial skills, like navigating directions, men generally do better. "Women use the cerebral cortex for solving problems that require navigational skills. Men use an entirely different area, mainly the left hippocampus -- a nucleus deep inside the brain that's not activated in the women's brains during navigational tasks," Geary tells WebMD. The hippocampus, he explains, automatically codes where you are in space. As a result, Geary says: "Women are more likely to rely on landmark cues: they might suggest you turn at the 7-11 and make a right at the church, whereas men are more likely to navigate via depth reckoning -- go east, then west, etc."

While the brain allows us to think, it also drives our emotions. It may not come as a surprise, then, that the ability to identify and control emotions varies between sexes.



"Women are faster and more accurate at identifying emotions," says Ruben Gur, PhD, a neurologist at the University of Pennsylvania. Studies have shown women to be more adept than men at encoding facial differences and determining changing vocal intonations.



Women, as a whole, may also be better than men at controlling their emotions. Gur and colleagues at the University of Pennsylvania recently discovered that sections of the brain used to control aggression and anger responses are larger in women than in men.



Researchers believe brain variations between sexes are for the best. "Most of these differences are complementary. They increase the chances of males and females joining together. It helps the whole species," Gur says
31
Wiki has a whole series of articles on "Sex differences in humans"
32
@30, venomlashh is not only copying and pasting, but he is copying and pasting words that have been altered for the purpose of manipulation



the string where he pasted



"....That is how embryos go from the female default to the male state...."



is more than adequate proof you'd be better off not reading any of it, because what ends up happening is; even if you are smart enough to parse the truth from fiction in venomlashes words there, you won't walk away with truth without it coming with the biases the manipulative words intended it to have



So even the truthful there is not the truth
33
29



what is the obsession with female doctors?



the doctor at the clinic should not have mocked you tiny wee wee but you have to move past what she said....
34
@30: Differences in brain structure are by definition PHYSIOLOGICAL. Do you know what "physiological" means? It's really not my fault if you're too ignorant to understand what is written.

Differences in how men and women interact with others or use language have strong societal components due to the imposition of gender roles by family and society and can't be realistically attributed to anything innate. If you don't know that, well, that's too damn bad for you.

Male and female doctors with equal experience and seniority don't get the same treatment; women tend to make substantially less even when all factors besides gender are accounted for. Why should that be? Either show me the innate differences between genders that explain why men inherently make better doctors than women, or admit that there actually is gender discrimination in pay.



@31: Yes, there are sex differences in humans. They are overwhelmingly physiological, LIKE I REPEATEDLY SAID.



@32: If I'm copying and pasting, please tell me what I'm copying and pasting FROM. It may be surprising to someone as nutty as you, but it's possible for some people to actually know this stuff if they spend several years studying it.

The stuff about SRY's influence and the determination of gender physiology is perfectly factual. Everyone starts out looking pretty much female. It is the action of SRY which sets of gene expression/regulation pathways and triggers the development of a male phenotype. That is a FACT.
35
34



you didn't read the nice article from WebMD, did you.



Liberals are trying to use cultural pressure to force males and females to behave the same. That flies in the face of what women and men innately are, and will fail.

Males make shitty women. feminizing males, making soccer moms out of them, is bad for them, their wives (who soon lose sexual attraction to them), is bad for their kids.

Females make shitty men. It doesn't make them happy and it does not benefit society.



Your ability to ignore the science and plunge along where your prejudices carry you is impressive, however.



Free your mind.

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