I really doubt she was 14-15 months pregnant as that is medically impossible.

15 months?

@1 @2 Thanks, corrected to "weeks."

@3
It still says months.

I refreshed the page, and it says weeks.

@4 it says weeks now.

@5/6 - jinx!

Had she put down the knife as directed by the police officers she'd have no bullets in her body.

@9 we'll never know. Lots of people holding no object of any kind have been killed by the police.

And after the shooting, one of the cops called the dispatcher and told them Ms Lyles was dead and asked what to do next. The dispatcher said to first make sure she was dead. Silence and then a gunshot was heard. The cop came back on the line and said "Ok, now what?".

@11 you don't have to hate cops to point out the obvious. Takes less than 5 seconds to google 'cops shoot unarmed' and see just how remote the possibility is. But if I hate cops then @9 must hate black people right? That makes sense.

Rest in Peace, Miss Lyles....if only the police had tasers, which is what one of the officers yelled out for,,,Non lethal technology is here and well tried and tested,,,

@12 never happened,,,there are actual tapes,,,

@11 ask Christopher Sean Harris just how remote the possibility is that the King County sheriff will fuck you up for standing on a street corner not doing anything.

I woulda thought all the gun suckers out there would fall all over themselves rallying in support of a woman getting shot while defending herself *in her own kitchen* against jackbooted agents of the gub'm'n't.

"If someone were coming at you, or another with a knife, in a confined space, less than 10 feet away, would you use a weapon only 73% effective in stopping the attacker "

Yes. I would. And have. An that attacker wasn't half my size, a woman or pregnant.

Not sure what the continued effectiveness percentage of my own hands and leather coat is, but so far it was 100%.

But then again I kind of have a thing against murdering pregnant women.

SPD has zero credibility. Body cameras now. Disband SPOG.

Two undisputed facts seem to make it clear that the two officers involved are clearly at fault for the homicide.

First is that neither had a Taser and one of them left behind it behind ostensibly because it wasn't fully charged. They should not have been so unprepared, and it seems difficult to believe that there was truly no way to have avoided that. But even so, the officers didn't communicate what tools they had available until the interaction was already taking place, leading one to call for Lyles to be Tased and apparently panicking when they realized that wasn't available:
www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/…

The second fact is that although two other officers /were/ able to successfully de-escalate a similar situation with no loss of life, their behavior seems like it could easily have resulted in her death as well. Two trained peace officers with firearms should not reasonably fear for their lives against a woman half their size holding household objects. So when your training consists of 'compliance or death' and the person you want to comply is physically incapable of making reasonable decisions, it seems unavoidable that you're going to kill that person, like telling someone with the flu to stop coughing or you'll shoot.

Being stabbed is not fun. It can severely injure someone. But there is a very small chance it will result in death, especially in an urban area where hospital services are quickly accessible. Shooting someone seven times or more is almost certainly going to kill them.

@18 and @20, thank you,,,, yes lots of variables to consider. In the reporting of the incident, the female officer is reported to have yelled out "tase her!!" to her partner, who said later that he didn't put it on that day. So shooting wasn't the female officer's first instinct. A few years ago, I was a close up witness to the tasing of the mentally ill man who was slashing people with a knife across the street from the Broadway Walgreens. The SPD responded with massive force, cars and bikes from every direction that kept coming and coming. They surrounded the man who was in a covered doorway. They yelled at him to put down the knife over and over and over and then he lunged forward, knife pointing at them, and one officer instantly tased him and wham, he was down on the pavement. There are indeed deaths from tasers, usually heart related. I just think it's a tool to use before shooting guns, if possible...because it's less lethal...

Seven shots for two men to stop one woman armed only with a knife? It appears they didn't just want to stop her, they wanted her dead, dead, dead.

Note to self: do not call police when unstable relative is having a nervous breakdown.

@24 two male officers,,,sorry, i don't know where I got a man and a woman team,,,,maybe lozenges,,,

What gets me is why these cops are such pussies. This was a tiny little woman who weighed only 100 pounds, even though she was pregnant! Yet neither of these cops seemed capable of handling the situation with their band hands, let alone their batons. It boggles the mind.

I get it, they fucked up. Rather than deescalating the situation, and preventing things from getting out of hand, the situation got violent, and she picked up a knife. But even if she had a sword they should have been able to handle the situation without a gun or taser. Holy shit, isn't that what they teach you at the first day of self defense class? How to defend yourself against an attacker with a knife? Distract her, break her knee (or tibia) then when she is lying on the ground screaming, step on the arm that has the knife. Do they even train these bozos in self defense? Put it this way, if a crazy 100 pound pregnant woman attacks two unarmed Marines, don't you think the Marines can handle themselves?

Never mind a Marine (who obviously has been trained), what about a couple dudes from a tough neighborhood. Wander into East Saint Louis and find a couple guys that are just hanging out. Now try and hold them up with a knife. Neither one will pull a gun, but you are getting your ass kicked. Now imagine that the person causing the problem is a 100 pound pregnant woman, that both men realize is nuts. Chances are they disarm the bitch, give her a black eye, but don't kill her. Because they aren't wimps. These cops are.

I'll say this as someone who both hates police officers an pretty much all levels regardless of the justifiability of their use of force:

When trained to shoot in self defense most people learn to shoot in bursts, normally three round bursts. If you watch any video of a gunfight ever recorded you'll see this time and again. If the situation was imminent than I'm sure there was no opportunity to communicate who of them was to shoot and how many rounds was appropriate to fire. Training kicked in and they acted. Seven shots sounds like par for the course with two shooters.

A person with a knife, regardless of size, can be extremely dangerous in close proximity if they have the intent to do damage. Cops are not super humans or immune to knives.

I hate cops for their decision to become members of an incredibly oppressive institution at all. But criticism of the level of force used when they're actually (as opposed to delusionally or dishonestly, which is often the case) exposed to imminent danger by someone with a deadly weapon, is often incredibly asinine and shows a general lack of experience with the realities of violence.

@27

I'm sure many people possess the ability to defend themselves against a knife attack. But I very much doubt that many would opt not to use a firearm if they had one available. Very few people would be willing to take a greater risk of being severely injured than they absolutely had to.

Another thought:

In Northern Ireland, all police officers carry firearms. In the rest of the United Kingdom, the majority of police officers do not carry firearms; that duty is instead carried out by specially-trained firearms officers...

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_use…)

These are the cops that shouldn't carry guns. Or maybe they just shouldn't be cops. If you can't handle a 100 pound pregnant woman without resorting to violent force, how the fuck are you supposed to break up a bar fight?

Hey #31, I've not seen a dog pull out a knife or pistol and shoot at an officer. Officers are daily put in situations that require them to be marriage counselors, drug enforcement officers, mental therapists and driving law enforcers. Oh, and if there is a terrorist in the neighborhood they need to immediately be able to handle that, and bank robbers, and kidnappers, too. It has been stated time and time again that a taser in this close of a proximity is not what is recommended. Should the one officer be in trouble for not having his, yes. But even if he'd had it, procedure says he shouldn't have used it. And the point that gee, these two other officers were able to deescalate the situation, why couldn't these guys? Well, the situation was entirely different. There had been a fairly normal conversation in this instance. The officers were gathering information from the woman. She then suddenly, while being within a few feet of them, pulled a knife. Kind of a different situation.

Charleena Lyles was shot by taserless SPD officers 7 times---SEVEN times. Because they "didn't have a taser"?!? This could have been prevented. Charleena's four children are now without their mother, and her parents, siblings, relatives, friends and loved ones are without a family member, neighbor and friend. Condolences to all who knew her, and rest in peace, Charleena.
@30 Ross: "These are the cops that shouldn't carry guns. Or maybe they just shouldn't be cops. If you can't handle a 100 lb. pregnant woman, how the fuck are you supposed to break up a bar fight?" Spot on target. I nominate you as winner of the thread.

How many SPD officers are still like Patrick Saulet?

If you are upset about this, please sign a petition to help get WA intitiative 940 on the ballot next year. It would mandate more deescalation and mental health training for police officers.

God bless ‘Murica!
Do any of you “boys” even get it that the problem is that the USA is awash in guns?

Ever watch TV shows in the UK? The coppers don’t carry guns. Yet in good ole ‘Murica the cops have their guns out just checking out a home.

In 35 years in my home state I have NEVER seen a gun. Not one. Less than 5% of the population of Hawai’i even has a gun permit. That includes all the military: USMC, USA, USAF, USN, USCG. You are not allowed to carry a gun on base..unless you are the military police. The rest of the guns are locked up in an armory.

To get a permit 1) You must choose a specific gun in a gun store like a Glock 19 at Sam’s sporting goods. (Good luck finding a gun store) 2) Fill out a 2 page application for that specific gun after waiting 4-5 hrs at a DMV. There are TWO DMVs in Honolulu for a population of one million on this one island. 3) The DMV holds onto the application for a minimum of two weeks. IF okayed (The state has a “may” give a permit NOT “must” give a permit. If you had a traffic ticket 20 years ago, they can say “Sorry Charlie! No!) If you pass go back to the gun store and hope that specific model is there.

You have a gun permit for that one gun...not for any other. While other states pass more lax laws, Hawai’i passes STRICTER laws each year.

No one worries about getting shot. The cops aren’t worried about being outgunned by M289 Light Machine guns.

If we get rid of all the fucking guns. People won’t get shot! Other countries think we are NUTZ and they are right. Make it like Japan--a felony to possess a gun. Shut down all gun manufacturers. It’s an outdated product of NO USE!

You like guns? Then buy a dang Sig Sauer, a Kalashnikov, an AR-15, and come with me to Somalia, South Sudan, Syria, Mosul, Kabul, Abbottabad, or the Israel/Palestine border. Stand with me for 24-72hrs in a concrete bunker with a minimum of surgical supplies and help me sew up kids shot in the constant madness of war. You get so much blood on you that it just won’t come off despite scrubbing with wire brushes. Listen to the cries of a four year old boy as you amputate both of his legs that were struck by .50 caliber rounds from a gas propelled Desert Eagle or a Blenn 10.

Come with me on my next trip with Doctors Without Borders. You can help by scrubbing the floors so we don’t slip and fall in the ankle deep blood.

Let me tell you how many times I’ve shot a gun of any type. Zero. Nada. They’re toys for SMALL boys who never grew up.

@36?
A knife never runs out of ammunition. It IS a deadly weapon. One slash inside your upper arm through the brachial artery can cause an arterial bleed where you lose consciousness in 30 seconds PLUS with the same slash, you can cut through the major tendons and ligaments and your arm is useless.

@38 -- You are missing the fucking point. As @36 said, unless she was willing to throw the knife, she was not a threat unless she was next to the officers. Call me crazy, but I don't think she knew how to do that. That makes her less dangerous than a dude with a rock.

She only posed a danger when right next to these men. This is a 100 pound, pregnant, deranged woman we are talking about. Why the fuck can't these cops handle her without killing her? Holy shit, take your average, run of the mill MMA competitor and ask them to handle this bitch without any weapons, and s/he will break her legs, take her knife, and then ask what the number is for Medic One ("Sorry, I just got hired. I'm new to the job"). But these paranoid, wimpy ass losers forgot that this type of shit is what they were handled to do. Not break up the Brinks Robbery, not solve the Son of Sam murders, but break up this kind of shit. Try to calm things down, and when you fail, wrestle the mother fuckers to the ground. If you end up beating them up a bit, or breaking a few bones, so be it. But shoot her seven fucking times? As @24 said, they wanted her dead, which is just fucking crazy.

If this is true-- if two six foot tall policemen felt so threatened by a woman half their size that they felt compelled to discharge their side arms a combined seven times into her-- then it's time for Ed Murray to send Kathleen O'Toole back to Boston. She was brought in to change the putrid and corrupt police culture that made barbaric acts such as this one typical of the SPD. Clearly, things haven't improved. Apparently, O'Toole has been too busy writing frankly bad Irish poetry to do the actual work of police reform.

But she is probably going to get the sack by next January, no matter what Ed Murray does. Neither of the candidates in the mayoral runoff has been reticent about police brutality and the need to civilize Seattle's police. One of them, as a U.S. Attorney, was instrumental in putting the SPD under the federal consent decree. As mayor, I'd imagine Jenny Durkan''s chief goal will be to get the consent decree lifted. But if the SD doesn't change, that won't happen. And a police chief who refuses to do the hard work necessary to make it happen won't be tolerated.

Many of you are responding to this without having the facts. There is no refuting that she was indeed very close to these officers. No need to throw the knife when you are standing next to the officer while having a conversation. Come on people, read the report. And to call out the officer's manliness by saying "threatened by a woman half their size" come on. Someone half my size with a knife is still a serious threat. Of course this is a horrible situation. But to immediately blame the officers is pretty ridiculous. Easy for you to say how easy it would be to have responded differently from the comfort of your keyboard.

God what a bunch of know nothings here. First of all, if you have never encountered a person, up close, with any kind of a dangerous weapon who is also not mentally stable, you have no business commenting on how you would react. I have and it's scary, scary like you get in a heartbeat there's no talking down that person who intends to hurt you and you need to protect yourself and others. Secondly, and MOST importantly, she had a serious record of negative interactions with the cops and it was well known that she had mental instability. So, why would her housing provider, Solid Ground, who is in charge of her case management, not have an arrangement with the cops to make sure any interaction with the police would also include someone from Solid Ground there to mediate?! Now think about this. There's a number of other housing nonprofits in town housing folks with mental illness. And those properties have issues with their residents and the police. Guess what. They don't have lethal interactions with the cops. Why? Because those organizations have qualified staff to work with their residents. A lot of blame needs to be placed at Solid Ground for not adequately protecting their client when they knew she had problems. Their negligence attributed to her death. We all want to just blame the police but come on, there were a number of times before this time that she could've been protected and people just didn't do their jobs.

"male fetus" - I've never seen fetus sex mentioned in a murder report before. Is this the racist POS version of virtue signalling?

@15:

Seriously, you've never heard a version of that joke before? Usually, it involves hunters not cops...

She was shot seven times because cops are trained to keep firing until the threat is clearly over, which usually means rapid-fire until the suspect hits the ground. Just listen to the audio from the dash cam video of the shooting of that Native woodcarver a few years ago -- several shots in rapid succession. There were two cops present and firing at Lyles -- each one probably fired around four times. Not every shot was likely to have hit her -- one or two misses in stress-fire situations is quite common. Sometimes, if someone is highly stressed and completely untrained, they miss with every shot. It happens. Also, the two shots that went through her back were probably because people who are being shot tend to spin -- sometimes from the bullet impacts, sometimes from an instinctive reaction to turn away from the gunfire. Murder victims have even been known to put their hands up to try and block the bullet. It's instinctive. They don't think about the fact that the bullet is going to punch through their hand, they're just thinking about doing anything they can to not get shot. I'm not commenting on whether or not the police were justified in deploying their sidearms in this case, I'm just trying to maybe make it easier to understand why she was shot seven times and twice through the back for people who might not have any experience or training in firearms.

A mentally unstable women with multiple kids already and pregnant with another one? Her trajectory was bound to end badly, either by cops or by one of the biological fathers. Hopefully some of her brood will have a better shot in the foster system, though that seems equally as bad.

As I understand it, she had a paring knife. To hear the SPD apologists, you'd think she was brandishing a katana or something. Did the crime lab even test to see if the paring knife was sharp?

She had a knife -- TO DEFEND HERSELF because she had called the police to report a burglary.

Do you know how much time passed between "drop the knife" and pumping her full of bullets?

The police knew her, yet didn't call for any mental health professionals. They also weren't carrying their mandated tasers "because they weren't comfortable."

The police murdered this woman.

Apologists here are grasping, and it shows.