News Nov 15, 2022 at 5:10 pm

Prosecutors Allege Routine Teenage Fight Led to Ingraham Shooting

If we're going to put kids through the criminal legal system, this is where they belong. WC

Comments

1

"punish rather than to rehabilitate."

Once someone has crossed that Rubicon and killed another human in cold blood they are beyond rehabilitation.

2

You write this like the gun just appeared from thin air “if not for the gun being there…” - the little gangster wannabes brought it and then decided to use it. Yeah, it sucks that they had it but that was their intention and choice. Let’s not make it sound like they were all hanging out chewing gum together.

3

Just want to point out there is a whole lot more impact than ‘two empty chairs’ at Thanksgiving. Everyone who witnessed this was traumatized, I know families considering pulling their students from Ingraham High, and everyone’s general sense of safety has been rattled. I’m not arguing in favor of trying as a child or adult, but this portrait painted here leaves out half the stakeholders.

4

Will hole argument is based on the premise that had the teen not been able to get that gun, they wouldn't have gotten a knife or baseball bat, and been just as successful. "But for the gun" is always a straw man fallacy.

5

@4 that's why they made guns, because they can't kill anyone more quickly or effectively than the blades and clubs people had already been using. Same reason stabbings in countries with stricter gun control result in death at the same scale as shootings here. Right? (Spoiler, UK had 235 deaths by knife in 2021 vs 17,727 gun deaths in the US so far this year not counting suicides)

https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/
https://benkinsella.org.uk/knife-crime-statistics/

6

There are a lot of unanswered questions here for me, and the whole matter is inflamed by either Will's fundamental ignorance of statistics or deliberate misuse of same.

1) OK, black kids are 14% of the population but 35% of the defendants in Juvie? What if black kids are 2.5x more likely to do the shit that gets you in Juvie? Is it still racism, or are they just more prone (for whatever reason) to criminal mischief? We don't know the answer here. Either there isn't enough data or Will is choosing not to share it.

2) 52% of Juvie cases involving black kids get transferred to Adult Court. It's safe to assume these are serious felonies. Are a similar % of non-black defendants accused of similar crimes being transferred to Adult? Once again, either Insufficient Data or Will is deliberately choosing not to share (because it won't fit the 'Amerikkka is racist' narrative?).

3) It is clear that this was not a fight to get control of a stolen weapon to turn over to authorities. One group of punks brought a piece to school, another group of punks wanted it for their own (presumably nefarious) purposes. Why would Gangbanger gang #1 be bringing it to school in the first place?

4) Do any of these kids have priors? If they do, are they priors for violent conduct? If so, why the hell are they allowed in school with kids who aren't thugs? Do our schools exist to educate and prepare kids for the future, or are they Day Care for punks?

Rather than making everything about race, would it make sense to figure out how to protect our kids in school from gang violence, and maybe the first step would be to remove gangbangers from the general student population?

7

With tragedies like this going on, and SPS more concerned with how 'woke' they look rather than concentrating on making sure each kid reaches their potential, are you surprised that everyone who can is either (a) decamping to better school districts, or (b) putting their kids in private schools? At this rate, the only kids left in SPS will be the poor, the dim, or the ones whose parents are okie-dokie with their offspring being someone else's Social Justice experiment.

8

These 14 and 17-year olds may be someone's "Babies" but they played a grown-ass man's game when they brought the gun to school. Play a man's game, receive a man's consequences.

There can be that measure of justice while continuing to work on the root causes of these crimes.

9

It wasn’t a lack of “impulse control” that had this criminal make a premeditated decision to bring a stolen gun (possession of which, anywhere, is Crime #1 here) to school (having a gun on campus is Crime #2).

Before he pulled the trigger he was already a criminal worthy of prosecution. Now he’s a murderer - premeditation or impulse-control be damned.

10

@6 -- You mentioned "gang" or "gangbanger" four times. I don't see it mentioned it at all in this, or other articles. What makes you so sure that this was gang related? Imagine this took place in a rural town, where guns are more common, and those involved were white. Would you be writing the same thing? Of course not. Yet the same thing could easily happen.

You write about how the statistics don't show a bias, and then turn around and demonstrate bias yourself. You can't help yourself but weaken the very argument you are trying to make. You took the time to carefully write out an argument about a lack of systemic racism, then also wrote a racist statement and then expect us to believe that racism just doesn't exist at a more subtle level. You gotta be fucking kidding me.

11

@9 Are you saying that a 14-year old should be sent to adult prison for possession of a fire arm? Get real. The only reason they are thinking of treating this kid like an adult is because he pulled the trigger. Someone could have handed him the gun and they would be doing the same thing. It isn't clear at all at this point if he had any intent of actually using it until he was teased. The might have been just trying to show off ("look at me -- I'm bad ass, I have a gun"). This type of thing happens all the time for 14-year olds. Based on what little we know about the situation, lack of impulse control had a lot to do with the shooting.

12

Where did he steal the gun? It’s a criminal offense to not secure deadly weapons.
Negligent parties (often parents) are increasingly being held to account in these cases, and rightly so.

13

@11: “Are you saying that a 14-year old should be sent to adult prison for possession of a fire arm?”

No, @9 described two premeditated crimes which had already happened before the trigger was pulled. These two pre-shooting crimes were opportunities to intervene with mandatory counseling before anyone died. Now it’s too late.

@10: “Imagine this took place in a rural town, where guns are more common, and those involved were white. Would you be writing the same thing? Of course not.”

You’re absolutely correct: the Stranger would not be hyping the race angle if everyone involved was white, and therefore readers would not be commenting on it.

14

We never hear about stuff like this happening at Seattle Prep, Lakeside, Blanchet, Holy Names, and schools like that.

I doubt they have metal detectors, cops patrolling the halls, or platoons of counselors/social workers either.

What do you suppose they're doing different?

I'll wait.

(Hint: it just might have something to do with setting high expectations for their kids, and expecting same to live up to those expectations, rather than catering to the Lowest Common Denominator. Maybe they set and enforce standards of conduct, demand respect for authority, and rules, etc. Or maybe this is crazy talk)

15

@6 Wow. Hard to know where to begin here.

1) OK, black kids are 14% of the population but 35% of the defendants in Juvie? What if black kids are 2.5x more likely to do the shit that gets you in Juvie? Is it still racism, or are they just more prone (for whatever reason) to criminal mischief? We don't know the answer here. Either there isn't enough data or Will is choosing not to share it.

"Black people are more prone to criminal mischief"- That's your way of saying that people of color are different than white people, fundamentally. Straight up white supremacy there.

16

“Prosecutors Plan to Charge the Child as an Adult”

Why does this worry the Stranger? After a felon sprayed gunfire at 3rd & Pine during rush hour, hitting seven persons and killing one of them, the King County Prosecutor’s Office, supervised by Leesa Manion, bungled the case into acquittal on all counts. Now that Leesa Manion has — with great assistance from the Stranger — failed upward, prosecution of this suspect’s alleged crimes should bring not merely swift acquittals on all counts, but a multi-million dollar settlement against King County for the emotional suffering he and his family endured during prosecution.

17

Guns absolutely need to be regulated. And a gun turned a adolescent boy fight (which have happened since time immortal) into a death and a whole school traumatized. But this article is trash. Will is so focused in scoring points by using ‘child’ at least once per sentence, he forgot to include the part where school staff repeatedly observed the 14 year old to be in agitated state that morning. Their negligence in not intervening was a factor in this tragedy. Maybe they didn’t want to intervene for fear of getting criticized for “profiling”.

18

private school or bust it

19

@15: Sorry Sparky, you got your sums wrong. I'm simply pointing out that when you 'cherry pick' your statistics without offering them in fuller context you can open the door to a LOT of hypotheses, and some of them will be unpleasant. If you had read my post with a wish to understand rather than looking for an opportunity to self-righteously virtue-signal like you did, you'd note that I followed what was clearly a hypothetical with the caveat 'we don't know the answer here'.

For the record, no particular race is inherently more predisposed to criminality than another. There is ample evidence to show it's nurture, not nature - in other words, culture, not color. If you have the intellectual courage to venture out of your 'Safe Space', you may consider reading "Black Rednecks and White Liberals" by noted academic Thomas Sowell (who's also black, BTW). Mr. Sowell offers some truly compelling evidence to support this thesis.

But hey, you do you, Chief. This is how you Cancel Culture Cretins roll. When you're a Social Justice (tm) hammer, I suppose everything looks like a racist nail.


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