News Jul 26, 2023 at 9:30 am

Police Suspected the Man of Stabbing, No Update on Condition

The scene around First Avenue and Spring on July 18, when the cops shot the 39-year-old man. AN



Good. I'm glad they shot him. A danger to everyone around him. Who cares what his mental state was? Should they have trapped him in a soft pink fluffy cloud, only to release him later so he could stab someone else? Bring back involuntary mental health admissions and maybe this wouldn't happen.


I'm no SPD fan, but this looks like (failed) suicide by cop. Don't charge a cop with a knife if you don't want to get a bullet.


Don’t really see an issue.
Mental crisis or not, the guy was armed and threatened to kill the officer.


Wow, how on earth do police in other countries manage to handle a threatening person and not shoot them within a minute of the command to stop, or drop the knife, gun, club, whatever. It’s magical!


Unambiguously justified, despite the weaselly phrasing of how the officer neglected to warn how he was about to shoot, as if there wouldn't be a female officer with a knife in her neck within a second if he didn't.


Ah, are you trying to say police in other countries travel in packs of ten or more, or just maybe they engage the person with a weapon long enough for others to arrive? Seems like once the suspect is down, cops arrive in huge numbers pretty quickly.


@9: "Seems like once the suspect is down, cops arrive in huge numbers pretty quickly."

I recall the video. The suspect was still up and dancing around with the police even after an overwhelming number had him surrounded. It's nice to have the force necessary to overwhelm someone. More suspects would live if the cops had every situation totally under control.


@8 too bad American police have repeatedly disgraced themselves to the point no one wants to do the job. Seattle currently has hundreds of funded but vacant positions, and SPD entry level pay is great even without factoring in the various hiring bonuses the city has offered.


@5 (and @8, @9, @10): In the UK, weapons laws are so strict, my Swiss Army Knife* was not legal to carry there. Merely carrying a knife is therefore legal justification for the police to intervene. Here in the Good Ol’ U.S. of A., police intervention must wait until the person starts acting as if he’ll use the weapon. Police reaction times thus become shorter, stress levels rise, and chances of a bad outcome increase. (Also, countries with functioning health care systems don’t leave persons with mental illnesses wandering about the streets with weapons.)

*Yes, I’m an engineer.


There are always people who are going to think it's "over the top" to defend yourself with lethal force from someone on a stabbing spree. These people can be safely ignored.


@5 — wow, how on earth are you so wrong about what police do in other places?

Here’s London Police immediately shooting someone with a knife who had recently stabbed and killed someone:

And here’s London Police immediately shooting someone with a knife who had recently stabbed and killed someone:

So now that you know that your statement that “police in other countries manage to handle a threatening person and not shoot them within a minute of the command to stop, or drop the knife, gun, club, whatever” is incorrect, when can we expect your apology to be posted here?


@12 your parenthetical is 100% on point. In this country instead of an ounce of prevention we get a pound of "cure," and when that doesn't work electeds and certain media outlets demand the solution is yet more "cure."


So Ashley, how close should he have allowed to approach an officer with a knife after making threats to kill? Particularly after having already stabbed someone minutes before police arrived? He was shot but at least he was not involuntarily committed to a hospital for mental health treatment.


@11: in 2020, the Seattle City Council’s hamfisted efforts at “defund” created a hostile and toxic work environment for the SPD. When the people who control your organization’s budget loudly and repeatedly state they intend to take a meat-axe to it, expect those of your co-workers who have other options to head for the exits, and don’t expect outside prospects with other options to apply for open positions.

To fix this needless damage, first the voters will have to compete the job they started in 2021, flushing the progressives from the council, and replacing them with pragmatic liberals who take public safety seriously. Then, a few years will have to pass with a sane majority on the council, before good prospective SPD officers will take a chance on working in Seattle. Then maybe the police force can be rebuilt to adequate levels, along reform principles.


@18 except SPD didn't get defunded at all. Are you saying cops and potential cops are all sensitive souls who can't handle the public and elected leaders criticizing their work? Because that's pathetic


@19 — out of nowhere the council reduced the salary of the first black woman to be the chief of SPD. They never did that when the chief was a man or a white woman. Would you expect a black woman being treated similarly in any other profession to not take note of that kind of treatment? If a black woman who is the CEO of a major company had her salary reduced after a parade of white male predecessors never did, do you think employees who are members of minority communities may get the message and decide to seek employment elsewhere?


@19: Per Seattle’s population size, the SPD has approximately half the officers it did thirty years ago, so from a public-safety perspective, the SPD has effectively been defunded. You’re correct in that the Council failed to save any money via their radical (and unwanted by voters) reduction in the size of the police force, but the Council had been told that from the start.

I already explained @18 how the Council’s threats concerning defund drove officers out of SPD. The entirely predictable result of reckless threats by employers to cut budgets is a workforce-wide decline in both quantity and quality of employees. Wanting to remain employed need have nothing to do with any other feelings.

@20: It wasn’t quite out of nowhere. In their reckless pursuit of defund, the Council had simply ignored a key limit on their powers: the city has binding legal contracts with police unions, and cannot simply abrogate those contracts. Once the Council slammed into that hard stop, it flailed around for some way of cutting the police budget. The Chief of Police is not represented by a union, so they cut her salary. That doing this just so happened to contradict all of their pronouncements on equity, justice, and so forth didn’t matter, because all of that was mere performative bullshit anyway.


@20 do you have any evidence to back your assertion they've never before cut the chief's salary? Also did you know the whole SPD command staff got salary cuts? Were they all Black women too? You're either a rube or you think I am.

@21 I guess all those ex-SPD went to work in the private sector where employers never threaten budget cuts and your job is always safe right? Your argument is even more transparently nonsense than 20's


@22: It doesn’t matter what the nature of the work is, nor if the organization is government or private. If the persons in charge of the budget start loudly talking about how half the budget should be cut, workers will probably start leaving. The Council should have thought about that reality before they started talking defund.

The resultant departure of SPD officers to other towns and cities in the area was well documented, so I don’t know why you’re asking. Even the Stranger started whining about it,


@23 weird that's not what the cops who left said themselves


@24: I thought we had agreed that the SPD’s lower-ranking officers did not have their salaries reduced? I did not claim they were leaving over (real or potential) pay cuts, but in reaction to the Council’s reckless talk of suddenly throwing half the SPD out of work entirely.

From your link:

“Approximately 42% of the police officers exiting Seattle cited local government as the main reason for leaving, with the city council,”

Thank you for validating my point @18.


@25 none of them say they felt their job was in jeopardy, the complaints about government had to do with them not getting enough "support." These weren't business decisions these cops quit because their feelings got hurt. Which was my point @19


@26: Yes, as your link showed, the departing police officers had left because they felt they were not getting enough support from local government, starting with the city council. They were correct in feeling unsupported, because the city council had threatened to throw half of them out of work for reasons unrelated to job performance. When the bosses devalue the workers, the workers may quit and go elsewhere. There’s not much of a mystery in that.

You keep asserting, with no evidence, that their feelings were hurt, when in fact, their feelings were correct for the situation the council had created: a hostile and toxic work environment for the SPD. (Here’s a hint: when the only evidence you cite supports the direct opposite of your point, you might want to stop and examine whether you have a valid point.)


@27 no evidence their feelings were hurt? Here's a direct quote from the article: "The leadership made people in patrol feel as though we were insignificant." Maybe you didn't read that far.

And if we're to read 'support' as 'job security' please explain this quote: "The homeless and drug addicts get more support than the officers/detectives get." That one's in the second paragraph so you couldn't have missed it.

All that said, you're clearly incapable of reflection so I won't bother to reply again. Best of luck in all your endeavors


@28: You’re going to hold the police completely responsible, and furthermore, you’re going to belittle them for having feelings (which I explicitly stated they had, right there in the second sentence of @27) appropriate to any workers on the city payroll who were receiving the Council’s abuse. You also won’t admit this problem originated with the Council’s abusive maltreatment of these city workers. Blame it all on those city workers if it makes you feel better, but they were not the cause of the problem here.

And since you simply won’t recognize those realities, I agree we have nothing further to do here.

Please wait...

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