News Dec 8, 2023 at 3:05 pm

UW Students Aren’t Afraid Of Zionists, Cops, or Ana Mari Cauce

Hey, Cauce. You have company. HK

Comments

2

"So far
marches and
vigils, however moving,
have not stopped Israel’s genocide . . . "

"being on the
Wrong Side of History
constantly takes a lotta Courage."

--attributed to
George Costanza

3

kids-these-days can
See thru the Lies
they're told &
will Hold the
Guilty Acc-
ountable
one day
I pray

Israel
in the Name
of its People is
who's giving Israel
the baddest of Names

BiBi's
last-ditch
efforts to remain
Prisonfree just like
el trumpfster do NOT
Help Israel in any way
shape or form. the Hole
he's digging it may be Impos-
sible to dig Israel -- & gawd knows
Whom else -- out of the grave he's digging

the World will soon
Demand Cease Fire
or Whatever they
wanna call it or
maybe Nukes*
will be next.

who Knows?

it's
Popcorn:
Thirty already.

*Wee ones!
they're Containable!

4

Headline should be updated to “Activists promote anti semitism, terrorism and genocide on first day of Hanukkah”

Also most of them aren’t actual students, they’re just the usual red brigade morons who have nothing better to do now that Kshama has abandoned them.

5

Sadly @4 is correct

6

Good old undergraduate outrage.

7

These idiots have the collective brain power of a jar of vegemite.

8

If UW has any rules prohibiting hate speech, and those rules include "national origin" as a protected class, then calling for the dissolution of the state of Israel would surely qualify.

Who could have predicted that the speech restrictions you demanded might one day be turned against a cause you supported?

9

"A free Palestine will free us all"

I want to discuss this signage. What does that even mean? Who is "all"? Free from what? I can't make sense of it.

10

The antisemites aren’t fooling anyone - these groups are calling for an end to the state of Israel (but remember, it has nothing to do with Jews - Hamas loves Jews)

13

Direct action for human rights by a diverse group that includes Jews, a fact some commenters here have tried to obscure.

14

Hey Hannah and Stranger...nice antisemitic piece. Fuck Hamas and fuck you.

15

@13: Oh I'm sure. No group is monolithic, right? In addition, the Jewish group is perhaps the most ambiguously defined minority group. Ask Georges Santos.

Your factoid doesn't negate the experience and feelings of the majority of Jews so it remains just a caveat.

16

Hannah claims that the UWPD "originated in response to anti-war protestors during the Vietnam War." Her link, to the UWPD history page, clearly says UWPD's first officer was on the job in 1902. But he was gearing up for 1970!

17

"UW Students Aren’t Afraid Of Zionists"

Umm, racist much? Damn Stranger.
Maybe bring back some journalists and an editor.

18

Sitting out your ass for 9 hours and holding a sign. Probably shouting some recycled anti-war chant from the Vietnam era. Wow. Such commitment to the cause.
If they really want a free Palestine how about going to Gaza to fight the Israelis?
There are a bunch of Americans in Ukraine fighting the Russians.

19

Confinues to be bizarre how leftists are contorting themselves to support a right wing theocracy because Nasser aligned himself with the Soviet Union in 1957.

20

Let's say Israel gives Palestine all the land.
Do you really think it wilp be a utopia for the Palestinians, or do you think it will continue to be a shithole run by terrorists who use terror against their own people to stay in power?
Me thinks the latter.
Also still referring to it as a genocide. Adorable.

21

@20:
and then
were Israel to
END ITS BLOCKADE
on its open-air Prison might
Palestinian Lives then improve exponentially?

oh
kristo
it's just a
Silly Blockade!

silly
ME.

when most
of the World
calls it Genocide
or Ethnic Cleansing
& War Crimes can tS's
readership be far behind?

there I go
Again!

22

nyt:
Arab Nations
Condemn U.S. for
Vetoing Cease-Fire Resolution

The U.S. vetoed the resolution as senior U.N. leaders warned that without a halt in the fighting it was nearly impossible to get sufficient aid into Gaza.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2023/12/09/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news

get aid to
Gazans?

but HAMAS!

speaking of
Adorable.

wanna re-elect
El trumpfster?
we’re on the
Right path.

23

@4: For all of their bravado about fearlessly facing repression, exactly zero students are named in this piece. The only protester named is apparently no longer a UW student. So, great profiles in courage, kids.

Likewise, the protesters’ demand of the UW to stop “…suppressing pro-Palestinian sentiment from students and faculty” wasn’t accompanied by any examples of, you know, the UW actually “suppressing pro-Palestinian sentiment from students and faculty. ”

Finally, we have the utterly unsupported claim from the one named demonstrator, who said “advocates feel less and less afraid of Zionists' usual tactics of suppression.” Should we put these protesters (and the Stranger) on “Protocols watch”? I keep wondering when they’ll finally start actually quoting from that hoary Tsarist forgery.

24

@23 - have there actually been any examples of the UW suppressing pro-Palestinian OR pro-Israeli sentiments? Unlike some other campuses I have not heard any of that happening here.

And demanding the UW cut ties with Boeing is laughable. Boeing has ZERO to do with any decisions by Israel. You can make the argument that the US government has not done much to calm the region down (vetoing the cease-fire resolution was REALLY bad optics), but Boeing is not a decision-maker here.

I see a lot to dislike on both sides of this conflict. Maybe calling a time out is the best way to keep a whole lot of people who have done nothing from getting killed.

25

'Maybe calling a time out is
the best way to keep a
whole lot of people
who have done no-
thing from get-
ting killed.'

--@24

brilliantly.

26

So, to recap, a hundred or so undergraduates staged a sit-in, called UW police insulting names, and were gently removed by said police. Truly a campus aflame with passion!

This may actually have made the Seattle City Council’s recent resolution look bold and effective.

27

@25
damn Shame
all them WMDs
going to Waste all
them chirrens NOT
Suffering all their Homes
not piles of Rubble still with
Families in them. a ceasefire'd put
a Stop to that but we've got Principles

to Uphold here.

& Whatabout
HAMAS!

join the
MORAL
WORLD
Israel - You
CAN DO IT too.

29

When the U.S. votes against cease fire and that vote is the only vote that counts, the UN is pointless. When ONE person in Congress can stop anything and everything from happening (like Tuberville blocking every single military appointment), Congress is pointless.

The United States has chosen to arm and fund; aid and abet; the genocide of the Palestinian people. President Biden is a war criminal as is every current member of Congress (with the exception of Rashid Tlaib who spoke out, demanding the recognition of Palestinians as human beings).

I won't vote for any war criminals. I won't vote for any Republicans. And I sure as shit won't be told that if I don't vote for Joe Biden that I am enabling the destruction of this country. This country is gone already. We are literally watching genocide in real time (there wasn't social media during the Holocaust) so there is absolutely no excuse for the United States' not to demand a cease fire. The United States is not doing so because it fully supports colonization and will arm and fund Israel until every single Palestinian is dead.

Whatever happens to this country going forward cannot be blamed on insane Republicans. The Democrats have chosen white supremacist terrorism, Zionism, and colonialism above everything else (AND THEY STILL EXPECT ALL NON-WHITE VOTERS IN THIS COUNTRY TO VOTE FOR THEM).
FUCK THEM.

I will not vote for anyone currently in power (or any Republican, ever). The cognitive dissonance happening in this country right now is incomprehensible to me.

30

And everyone commenting here about how people who support Palestine hate Jews are willfully ignoring the hundreds of thousands of Jews in this country nationwide who are also protesting and demanding a cease fire. Zionism is white supremacism. Zionism is colonialism. There are millions of Jews in the United States and worldwide who are loudly screaming NOT IN OUR NAME. Anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism anymore than Anti-white supremacism (or anti-fascism) is anti-white people (or anti anti-racist white people at least). No matter how loudly you say it, no matter how many times you say it, anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism.

What the Zionists in Israel are doing is genocide and millions of Jews worldwide do not support it.

31

@29: The Democratic Party’s candidate for president will receive Oregon’s electoral votes, no matter what you personally decide to do. So no one should care enough to bother telling you anything else about how you vote.

@30: Most Israelis were either born in Israel, and/or are descended from persons born in Israel (or other parts of the Middle East). Exactly the same can be said about Americans in America. If Israel is a colonizer, then so is the United States in America. Are you arguing for most of the US population to move elsewhere?

32

Zionism - "a movement for (originally) the re-establishment and (now) the development and protection of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel."

So if you're anti-zionism, you're anti-semitic because you don't agree that Israel is the Jewish homeland. Which it certainly is, going back to Moses.

At least be honest xina and admit to antisemitism if that's what you're saying.

33

@29 if you want to align yourself with Tlaib that’s all you need to say. We know exactly what she represents and none of it is good.

34

and if you
Align with BiBi
Nutnyahoo we Know
Whom you'd rather see Gone:

Israel
Assures
It’s Doing
Everything Pos-
sible To Minimize Civilians

TEL AVIV—
Addressing observers
about the toll of the nation’s
ongoing incursion into Gaza, Israeli
officials assured critics Friday that it was
doing everything possible to minimize civilians.

“To those expressing apprehension about this war, just know that our troops are taking every effort to mitigate civilian life,” said Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu, explaining that he remained laser-focused on taking the necessary precautions to reduce civilians in Gaza or prevent them entirely.

“Let me be clear:
Our war is against Hamas.
We have explicitly instructed
our commanders that they should
take pains so there are as few innocent men,
women, and children in Gaza as humanly possible.”

Netanyahu then added that because of
‘the unfortunate realities of war‘
it was always sadly possible
that a few Gazans
might survive.

https://www.theonion.com/israel-assures-it-doing-everything-possible-to-minimize-1851085308

finally
a little
Truth* in
big Media

*more Truth in
One article @ the Onion
Than in ALL of FOX’s Entirety

35

“At least be
honest xina and
admit to antisemitism
if that's what you're saying.”

--@dewey
inexplicably

a quick Refresher:

“Anti-Zionism
is not anti-Semitism
anymore than Anti-white
supremacism (or anti-fascism) is
anti-white people (or anti anti-racist white
people at least). No matter how loudly you say it,
no matter how many times you say it, anti-Zionism is not anti-Semitism.”

--@xina above
Brilliantly
as Per
Usual

I'm
anti-
Nutnyahoo
and NO that does
NOT make me a Jew-Hater

I'm just not
into Fascists.

36

america
you have
a comprehension
problem. a Big one

which is why
"Republicans"'re
defunding Schools

and Overfunding
the Po-po. they
have your Car-
eers all Map-
ped out.

37

@35: I quoted the dictionary, xina just vented.

With all due respect @kristo, proclaiming Netanyahu as a fascist doesn't protect anyone from charges of antisemitism.

38

@33: I assume Rep. Tlaib does indeed care about Palestinians. Anyone who does should be the strongest denouncer of Hamas, not for anything to do with Israel, but because of Hamas’ thieving of international aid from Palestinians, Hamas’ infliction of misogynistic and anti-LGBTQ+ policies upon Palestinians, and Hamas’ nonconsensual use of Palestinians as human shields.

As a female elected official in our open and free pluralistic democracy, she especially should understand the threat Hamas poses to her own rights and privileges, and to the lives, rights and privileges of any Palestinian who is not in Hamas.

39

so
it's Not
a War Crime
it's not Genocide
it ain't even Ethnic Cleansing

is what Gazans
are going thru
right fucking
Now fucking

terrorism?

shuttled
endlessly
pointlessly
around a Tiny
little strip of land

unable to escape the
Two THOUSAND Pound
"Bunker Buster" Bombs hospitals
Bombed no Food no Water no fuel
for generators one HALF of their Homes
Blasted to Smithereens: 17,000 DEAD Palestinians

IS this
Terrorism?

or it is just
a little war?

40

@39: A little war on its way to becoming a big war. Thank you for asking.

41

@40
that'll be
a big Relief!

your
Welcome!

42

Apropos of nothing, Utah's leading department store used to be Zion Cooperative Mercantile Institution (ZCMI). It was founded by Brigham Young, and is part of Macy's now, so that whole Zion thing must have more to it than just what people are associating with Israel.

As for this whole awful mess, it just goes to show how religion ruins everything. My heart goes out to everyone who is not some dumb religious nutjob and who is just trying to live their life.

And as for the Angry Undergraduate crowd (like Our Dear Xina and most of The Stranger's writers), go ahead and abstain from voting or vote for some political whore like RFK Jr, Jill Stein, or Cornel West. You seem to have some sort of fantasy of living life in the second act of "Cabaret", so let's see what that brings.

43

so IS it
Terrorism?

or even Less
than that?

more
of your
so-called
Standand War:

"it's just what Nations
DO when belligerents run
The Show" Quite curious if
it qualifies for the Terrorism
def. I know fellow Schloggers're
Sticklers for the King's English [me
too!] in a vertically-stunted vernacular

but here we Are.

45

@39: To follow up on a point Sir Toby made in a previous thread: all of those children we blew apart with “blockbuster” 2,000 pound bombs, or burned alive with chemical incendiaries, some in their own beds — was it ok for us to kill all of those German children because their parents couldn’t overthrow a fascist totalitarian one-party state — one which had never attacked us? Was it just, right, good, moral of us to do that? Most Germans were never Nazis, most Gazans are not Hamas. What’s the difference between what we did then, and what we’re supporting now? Was what we did in Germany “war crimes,” or “genocide,” or “ethnic cleansing”? We had some outright atrocities, such as at Dresden, but mostly it was war, which is hell. If we’d been intent on killing civilians just for the sake of so doing, the death toll would’ve been even higher.

If we hadn’t taken out that regime by force, it might still be around. Would that have been morally better?

What separates Hamas from fascists? A “holy” text? Hamas is a reactionary right-wing organization which fetishizes violence and death, loots from the innocent, has high-living leaders feeding off the looting, hates gays, believes women should know their inferior place, uses rape as a weapon in warfare — and those are just some of the easier similarities. If we could in good conscience kill all of those innocent Germans to stop a fascist gang, why should the Israelis not now have the same agency?

It’s easy to make cheap moral judgements from far away, especially after you’ve granted yourself the indulgence of not having to answer any of the tough questions.

46

so Is
what Israel's
doing to Gazans
[& to the West Bank]
IS that or is it Not terrorism?

your
constant
Demand for
linguistic Exacatitude
requires you to answer that

without
worming
your way
Out Of It.

the
KKK
practiced
Terrorism.

is what
BiBi's doing
terrorism? or not.

47

To quote another - I'm create a new religion and I'm going to take over the most expensive apartments in Manhattan and do everything I need to do to make sure I get what all of my friends and family rightly own, so sayeth the lord >>> and if that doesn't work out, say after over 60 years, then I'll just turn all of those apartments into dust and no one will get anything, ever.

That's what Israel is doing right now.

Anti-Zionism is not Anti-Semitism. Anti-Zionism is Palestinian Lives Matter.

This country may believe it will only exist under white supremacy, but it is so wrong. There is a reckoning coming and it's coming with a relish.

It's like men who kill someone who doesn't like them back or leaves them "if I can't have them, no one can!"

48

@47: Do Israeli lives matter xina? If you say yes, then you're not an anti-zionist.

49

That the author is obviously in favor of this kind of drooling stupidity is another sad moment for "journalism". The modern left continues to be a deep skidmark in the boxer briefs of society.

What possible good do these drooling idiots think they're doing? Netanyahu isn't going to care about vacuous wastes half the world away...nor will the UN...nor will anyone but the police that hopefully find charges to truly punish these clowns for messing with the college and the many lives involved.

They wanted attention, but if they're like the vast majority of tools I've debated this mess with... it's all about the optics games of themselves, just more social media narcissism. Nothing defines the modern left like APPEARING to know/care about a trending topic....

50

@46: So, what we did to German and Japanese children in 1945 — was it terrorism or not? Of course you won’t answer, and making you show you won’t answer, making you dodge that question again and again and again and again, repeatedly making you display your abject moral cowardice for all to see, is the only valid reason for anyone to ask it. Thanks for playing.

@47: You forgot the part of your analogy wherein the adherents to your new religion already own half of Manhattan, which they’d inherited for generations. Other than that, your analogy rocks. (Too bad that little fact destroys the entire point your analogy existed to make, hm?)

@49: “Nothing defines the modern left like APPEARING to know/care about a trending topic....”

Bingo! There’s really nothing else to say about the Stranger and its supportive commenters on this topic … or on any other political topic…

51

Kristo, you best take a good hard look at Hamas. You try to deflect by only showing concern for Gazans but Hamas is the real culprit. This whole thing seems to go totally against the Stranger's commitment to feminism as well as socialism. One need only look to Iran, Hamas's fearless leader and banker. Just recently Iran denied permission to the late Masha Amini's (remember her) family to fly to France to accept a Humanitarian award, The Sakharov Prize. Masha was murdered by the Iranian morals police for not wearing a head veil in public. Is that what you want for Gaza?

52

"The modern left continues to be a deep skidmark in the boxer briefs of society."

So what, CAMartin dear, are the positions of the "modern right" on this matter? Who should we ask? Donald Trump? Lauren Boebert? Franklin Graham? Stephen Miller?

If the modern left is a skidmark, the modern right is a chronic loose stool.

53

@52: ‘So what, CAMartin dear, are the positions of the "modern right" on this matter?‘

Who cares? If they start passing meaningless resolutions in City Hall, and lazily staging sit-ins at out-of-the-way office buildings at UW, all the while calling such sitting-on-their-ass sessions “fighting*,” then maybe we’ll worry about them.

If we have to speculate, then we’ll say our right-wing friends who are only moderately racist enjoy watching a Western democracy bomb a bunch of (insert horribly hateful epithet for “Arabs” here). From this, it follows our right wing friends of the more-racist variety really enjoy watching a bunch of (insert horribly hateful epithet for “Jews” here) bomb a bunch of (insert horribly hateful epithet for “Arabs” here).

*Sawant, Silverstein, and our modern left seem to have a misuse-of-the-word-“fighting” fetish like our right-wingers have gun fetishes. Same idea, only costing less to indulge, and involving (quite regrettably) a much smaller chance of Darwinian self-elimination.

54

@52 -- thankfully the modern left doesn't control one of the two major political parties the way the modern right does. What's bizarre is that the far left over and over again has done everything in their power to help the far right win elections, when the right would never do the same. Heightening the contradictions, I guess.

55

@52: But who would have thought just a couple of months ago that the antisemitism from the left would be spewing out like from a broken sewer pipe?

56

@54,

You don't think far right wingers like Trump, Gaetz, MTG, and plenty of others too numerous to mention, have thrown a significant number of would-be GOP voters to third-party or Dem candidates? Because I can assure you they have.

57

@55 anyone who has been paying an iota of attention to what has been happening on college campuses and progressive cities like Seattle could easily have predicted this. Sawant hosted a few anti semitic events during her time in office but it just flew below the radar.

58

@56 -- MTG and her ilk are terrible, which has resulted in Democrats winning elections because rightists are awful. MTG and other crazies are not arguing that you should not vote for Republicans like Donald Trump.

Leftists have explicitly argued against voting for Democrats, like when Kshama Sawant argued against voting for Hillary Clinton, which has resulted in Republicans winning elections. Leftists are directly saying you shouldn't vote for Democrats.

See the difference?

59

@58: “Leftists have explicitly argued against voting for Democrats, like when Kshama Sawant argued against voting for Hillary Clinton, which has resulted in Republicans winning elections.”

And they’ve been doing it for decades, without remorse for the tremendous damage they’ve been doing. In Florida in 2000, if less than a thousand votes for Nader had gone to Gore instead, the latter would have won the election outright, and W’s father’s appointees on the Supreme Court would not have been able to appoint him president.

But somehow, it’s not fair to note any of this.

61

I do not in any way support Zionists as I do not in any way support White Supremacists in the United States. I stand with all of the Jews decrying Israel's actions. I stand with all of the innocent Palestinian civilians. If you believe all Palestinians support Hamas (and their terrorism), you believe all white people in the United States support white supremacists (and their terrorism), and you believe all Jews support Zionists (and their terrorism).

Continuing to pretend that anti-Zioninsm = anti-Semitism is pure ignorance in the name of perpetuating the myth of white supremacy and refusal to acknowledge your approving of all violence being committed in the name of perpetuating that myth.

63

@61: “If you believe all Palestinians support Hamas (and their terrorism),”

Who here has written this? We’ve said Hamas uses Palestinians as human shields, which is why the death toll is so high in the conflict Hamas initiated by (among other acts) raping, mutilating, and murdering women in Israel. Hamas is the primary reason civilians in Gaza are dying, and we’ve merely recognized this fact.

64

@61: You steadfastly are conflating Zionism with white supremacy, where as most definitions of the word are along the lines of "Zionism is the movement for the self-determination and statehood for the Jewish people in their ancestral homeland, the land of Israel."

Enlighten me how you extrapolate white supremacy from Zionism, if you please.

65

@64: Because she does not believe Israel has a right to exist, and therefore Zionism is an imperialist land-grab. That’s what her incomplete analogy about Manhattan @47 told us. It’s based on the baldly contra-factual claim that Israel was founded mostly by persons not native to Palestine or the Middle East.

@62: And the Stranger has reported on Progressives chanting even worse demands:

‘The protesters made their demands clear in their rallying chants: … “There is only one solution, intifada revolution,” and, “We don’t want two states, we want 1948,” in reference to Palestine’s borders before the violent expulsion of three-quarters of Palestinians, an event known as the Nakba.’

(https://www.thestranger.com/news/2023/10/16/79212000/as-a-ground-invasion-looms-thousands-in-seattle-protest-for-a-free-palestine)

Commenters noted how this eliminationist hate rhetoric should not have been reported without condemnation, but the Stranger simply doesn’t care.

66

@63 Raindrop, as usual, is trying to win a war of morality using semantics. His reliance on words is all he has. Words have no meaning when there is no truth, facts, or reality behind them. He has stated clearly that anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism. Hamas exists SOLELY due to Zionism.

67

@58,

The ONLY reason those RWNJ fascits weren't advocating against voting for the GOP nom in 2016 and 2020 is because the GOP nom was himself a RWNJ fascist shithead! Do you really think if John Kasich or some other relative moderate had won the nom they'd have not disparaged and advocated against him? Far right wing shit-brained idiots just ousted Kevin McCarthy, himself(!) a far-right, fascism endorsing fucking nut job, just not nutty enough for those in power. So no, I guess the answer to your question is I don't see the difference. Can you maybe do a better job of explaining it?

69

@66: "Hamas exists because of Zionism" - Yes, that is actually correct. Hamas wants to wipe Zionism from the face of the earth. Considering you're an "anti-Zionist" logic dictates that you are essentially anti-Israel.

You even refused to answer my question whether Israeli lives mattered, after ingratiating yourself with "Palestinian Lives Matter" (@47).

I have no more questions for you on the conflict.

70

@39: You asked me a direct question, and I attempted an indirect answer. I apologize. Here is your direct question, followed by my direct answer.

“is what Gazans
are going thru
right fucking
Now fucking

terrorism?”

Indirectly, yes. Israel is responding to Hamas’ terrorist attacks on Israel by trying to prevent the future attacks Hamas has promised. Therefore, responsibility for civilian deaths in Gaza rests primarily with Hamas.

Directly, no. Israel is fighting a war in Gaza. The civilians dying there are caught between Hamas, who is cowering behind civilians in Gaza, and Israel, who is trying to prevent Hamas from realizing its promise to attack Israel again. Responsibly for civilian deaths in Gaza therefore rests primarily with Hamas.

@68: “Freedom here refers to the fact that Palestinians have been denied the realisation of their right to self-determination since Britain granted the Jews the right to establish a national homeland in Palestine through the Balfour Declaration of 1917.”

Then that slogan is based on a lie. The legal basis for Israel comes from the United Nations in 1948, and went into effect after, and only after, the British Mandate in Palestine ended that year. Saying Israel is based on the Balfour Declaration is a bit like saying the United States exists because of the Treaty of Westphalia, instead of the peace treaty Britain signed at the end of the American Revolutionary War.

71

nyt:
A Fraught Question for the Moment:
Is Anti-Zionism Always Antisemitic?

From the halls of Congress to
America’s streets and universities, a once
largely academic issue has roiled national discourse,
inciting accusations of bigotry and countercharges of bullying.

Yet some critics of Israel say they equate Zionism with a continuing project of expanding the Jewish state. That effort animates an Israeli government bent on settling ever more parts of the West Bank that some Israelis, as well as the United States and other Western powers, had proposed as a separate state for the Palestinian people.

Expanding those settlements, to Israel’s critics, conjures images of “settler colonialists” and apartheid-style oppressors.

Many Palestinians and their allies recoil just as fiercely: The equating of opposition to a Jewish state on once-Arab land — or opposition to its expansion — with bigotry is to silence their national aspirations, muffle political dissent and denigrate 75 years of their suffering.

Laila el-Haddad, a Palestinian activist and author, called it “a chilling attempt to punish and silence voices critical of Israeli policies.”

But perhaps nowhere is the question more fraught than among Jews themselves. Younger, left-leaning Jews, steeped in the cause of antiracism and terms like “settler colonialism,” are increasingly searching for a Jewish identity centered more on religious values like the pursuit of justice and repairing the world than on collective nationalism tied to the land of Israel.

--by Jonathan Weisman; Dec. 10, 2023

more:
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/us/politics/anti-zionism-antisemitism.html

continually Bombing
your open-air prison’s
not gonna win you a lotta
support in the Long Run, BiBi

but it Will
keep your ass
outta Prison. for Now.

END the Madness.

and Save Israel
and Palestian Lives
from the Reactionaries.

72

@68

"That chant doesn't mean that to the leftists chanting it.

They want Palestine to be free and self ruling without being in an apartheid society.

They don't say it as a mutually exclusive decree for the end of Israel and its right to exist.

That's what the people accusing them of antisemitism say it means to fit their narrative."

Bingo.

73

“@70: You asked me a direct question, and I attempted an indirect answer. I apologize. Here is your direct question, followed by my direct answer.

‘is what Gazans
are going thru
right fucking
Now fucking

terrorism?’

Indirectly, yes.”

then let us be Direct:

“There
is no justify-
cation for terrorism. Ever.”

tensorna on December 8, 2023 at 8:44 AM

well
at Least
we Agree
on One thing:

reigning Terror
on Palestiians
CANNOT BE
JUSTIFIED.

end the
madness

while
Israel Still
has a Chance.

74

@73: Yes, Hamas’ terrorism, and their pledge to continue their terrorism, is the root of the current conflict. When Hamas renounces terrorism, the current conflict can end.

I’m glad to see we agree on this.

75

Hamas and Bibi: a plague on both their houses

76

@75: No, Just Hamas. Blessings to Bibi!

77

@74
(& 76)

so you Support
Eradicating
HAMAS to
the Last
Gazan.

got it.

the
World
will NOT
stand for it.

buckle up
buckos.

78

Hamas can end this today.

Release all the hostages.

And surrender.

There, problem solved

79

@77:

“ so you Support
Eradicating
HAMAS to
the Last
Gazan.”

No, I support eradicating Hamas to the last Hamas terrorist.

If the world wants this war to stop, it can start demanding Iran and Qatar defund Hamas, that bankers and governments freeze Hamas’ accounts, that every country harboring Hamas’ terrorists hand them over for trial. The world can also demand Hamas disband, as @77 implied.

Hamas is root of the problem here. All else is just details.

80

@78

so you Support
Eradicating
HAMAS to
the Last
Gazan.

"No,
I support
eradicating Hamas
to the last Hamas terrorist."

ah, Yes.
the olde
Distinction
without a Difference.

81

@80: It’s Hamas — sorry, the Gaza Health Ministry — which, in the casualty figures the Stranger has unquestioningly accepted, draws no distinction between Gazan civilians and Hamas’ terrorists. So, you can take that up with them.

If we want to save civilian lives in Gaza, we need to shut Hamas down. Let’s flood the streets with people demanding that resolution to this conflict.

82

if we need to Save
Palestinian LIVES
we need to shut
down BiBi Nutn-
yahoo and End
his Desperate
Keep-Outta-
Prison gig

if not for Gazans
who cannot be Actual
Human Beings if Israel's
allowed to Slaughter 17,000
of them in Retaliation for their
Unforgivable Terrorist Attack on Oct/7

then for
Israel's sake
whose War Crimes
are turning the Planet
stupidly irrationally against

Israel.

for how Long will
the Ethnic Cleansing
be Allowed to Continue?

the Planet's
Patience is
wearing
Thin.

83

@Will
sorry @80
shouldda been
directed @ tentsey.

84

@82: “…Israel's
allowed to Slaughter 17,000
of them in Retaliation…”

What is your evidence for this? That you say so? That you want to believe it? If the IDF was targeting civilians In Hamas in retaliation for Hamas’ attacks, then that would indeed be barbaric and inexcusable. (And the death toll would be far, far higher by now.) But that is not what is happening.

Israel is attacking Hamas, to prevent the repeats of 10/7, which Hamas has explicitly promised. Hamas is hiding behind the civilian population of Gaza. Hamas is using the civilian population of Gaza as human shields. That is why the civilian death toll in Gaza is as high as it is.

Therefore, if you want to reduce the death toll, demand Hamas surrender. Demand Iran and Qatar defund Hamas. Demand an international freeze on Hamas’ assets. Demand countries which harbor Hamas terrorists or leaders hand them over for trial. Demand sanctions on countries and leaders which refuse to take the above actions.

85

@69 I didn't answer the question? I have stated more than once I DO NOT IN ANY WAY SUPPORT ZIONISM. Just as I don't support white supremacists. Just as I don't support any white people on the face of this earth that believes they have more of a right to life than any other people on the face of the earth. You keep pretending you have somehow tricked me into saying I am an anti-Semite. I am not. Nor are the millions of Jews worldwide (including those who chained themselves to the fence of the White House this morning) demanding a cease fire, because they, too, do not in any way support Zionism.

No matter how many times you say it, your words do not mean what you believe they mean.
Anti-Israel, Anti-Zionism DOES NOT EQUAL Anti-Semitism. Not now. Not ever.

86

@84 One can demand all those things and still believe that Israel is behaving in a way that will prove severely detrimental to its own security, material interests, international standing and national character.

That said, I think The Stranger should remove the word "Zionists" from the subhead of this article. As these comments illustrate, its meaning (like that of "terrorists") is far too contested and emotionally fraught to be useful in journalism outside of pure opinion pieces. Many people who consider themselves Zionists are aghast at this war.

87

@86: Sure, but the point is the protesters demanding a cease-fire either don’t understand how this situation developed, or they don’t care, or both. A cease-fire simply gives Hamas time to recover and steal more aid, and then this all repeats after Hamas’ next attack. (75 years into this overall conflict, I doubt anyone’s minds will have changed much, once this is no longer the topic of the moment.)

The Stranger should learn what the term “genocide” actually means.

88

I'm always confused by protests like this that target someone with absolutely no ability whatsoever to make change. It makes it seem like the location of the protest was selected solely for the convenience of the protestors, rather than to maximize the impact of their message.

89

ok. a little
Levity:

The House recently passed a Republican-led resolution declaring that anti-Zionism is antisemitism. The Onion asked politicians why criticizing Israel should be illegal, and this is what they said.

“Well, really, criticizing anything that has power should be illegal.”
--Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX)

“Making it a crime to criticize Israel should be obvious. What we really need to do is make it illegal to criticize a guy for covering up sexual abuse while acting as the assistant coach for Ohio State’s wrestling team from 1987 to 1995.”
-- Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH)8

“It is my belief that criticism of anyone should be illegal.
Criticism in general is just plain mean.”
--Rep. Seth Moulton (D-MA)

“Because it’s anti-Sem-
itic, duh. And why is it anti-Semitic?
Because it’s criticizing Israel. See how that works?”
-- Rep. David Kustoff (R-TN)

“Hey,
whatever it takes
to keep dividing Democrats
like this before the 2024 election.”
--Sen. Mitch McConnell (R-KY)

more:
https://www.theonion.com/politicians-explain-why-criticizing-israel-should-be-il-1851082190/slides/11

one more
Two more:

“Criticizing anything
that gives us an ethnostate arm-
ed with nuclear weapons smack dab in an
oil-rich region should be punishable by firing squad.”
--Sen. Tommy Tuberville (R-AL)
&
“If pro-Palestine supporters
want free speech, they can
form a corporation.”
--Rep. Elise Stefanik (R-NY)

she’s smarter
than she looks

90

from: Notes From The Edge
Of The Narrative Matrix:

Israel Apologists Are Psychopaths

I refuse to conflate the Jewish religion with the criminal activity of a government and its military, and I think it’s dangerous that people insist that I should.

Israel apologists are such psychopaths. In the last few days I’ve seen two separate articles attacking the idea that there are innocent people in Gaza, one from The Times of Israel titled “Innocents in Gaza? Don’t be naive” and another from Town Hall titled “There Are No ‘Innocent Palestinians’”.

Just as disturbing as seeing the endless stream of dead babies and children’s bodies blown apart by military explosives on my feed is having to read so many of my fellow humans defending these horrors in the most sociopathic ways imaginable.

One of the most braindead responses I get from Israel apologists all the time is “Just tell Hamas to surrender and this whole war ends.” Like that’s a thing.

Like Hamas are hanging on my every word and they’ll be like “Hang on you guys, one more white westerner just said we should surrender! Let’s wrap it up, fellas.”

Like even if you accept the pants-on-head moronic notion that these horrors are 100% the fault of Hamas and 0% the fault of Israel and everything it’s done since October 7 and prior to October 7, and even if you ignore

international law which says Palestinians have a right to defend themselves against hostile occupiers while Israel has no right to launch an attack to “defend” itself against people it is occupying, this argument still makes no sense.

Hamas, unlike Israel, has no political responsiveness to the demands of the west. They have no reason to listen to anything we say.

Westerners putting political pressure on our own governments to stop facilitating this nightmare absolutely does have an effect, and we’re seeing more and more signs that both Israel and its western allies are getting very nervous about the mounting international pressure from the public.

Pretending the same is true of Hamas, who has no motive whatsoever to heed western governments and their electorates, is just evading reality to advance an agenda.

And Israel apologists know this. They’re just throwing up every distraction and red herring they can think of to try and drag opposition to Israel’s mass atrocities off course.

“Tell Hamas to surrender” just means “Stop criticizing Israel’s actions. Look over there, not over here. Shut up. Be silent. Go away.”

The problem is not the words and phrases people use when protesting a genocidal massacre of civilians, the problem is the genocidal massacre of civilians.

If children are being slaughtered by the thousands in a horrific massacre and someone tries to make the conversation about what words and phrases you’re not allowed to use when opposing that massacre, the correct thing to do is to tell that person to shut the fuck up.

--Caitlin Johnstone; Dec. 11 2023

more:
https://www.caitlinjohnst.one/p/israel-apologists-are-psychopaths?

91

A “free Palestine” would be a brutally oppressive, Islamic theocracy totally ruled by men.
Women’s rights would be non-existent.
Abortion would be outlawed.
Being gay would likely get you killed.
Music, literature, film and all other media would be severely restricted.
No separation of religion and state.
Renouncing Islam carries a death sentence.
Mocking Islam carries a death sentence.
Etc. Etc. Etc.

92

@91

perhaps.
but we'll Never
know if they're Never

given the
Chance.

END the
Genocide

& Maybe we'll
find Out.

93

These campus kooks must be the new face of Nazism?

Such is the intellectual and social rubbish heap of the American Left and the scrambled academic egg heads who lead these children astray.

Why do the Democrats and these spoiled suburban students align themselves with the Satan-worshipping heretics of Hamas and its Iranian enablers?

The cause of Israeli sovereignty is just, and they were attacked first, so America should stand up and fight for these noble people, who apparently represent a sober anti-communist threat to the namby-pamby, morally adrift progressives.

America should be forever grateful to Israel for representing democracy among the pig-fuckers of the Arab world.


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