I’m glad this passed - seems like an excellent use of land near major transit hubs (and the canard that somehow housing mere blocks south of multi million dollar housing never rang true). And as much as I support unions, we really need to look at automation to move containers between the docks and railways (like most modern ports around the globe).
So is the takeaway that this is terrible because of Sara Nelson and Chris Hansen, but wonderful because people can grow Chai in SODO?
As far as "industrial lands" go, that doesn't really start until south of Holgate. North of Holgate (and east of Utah Ave) is taken up by the Amtrak yards, the Metro Yards, The City Motor Pool Maintenance facility and what appears to be a stalled Vulcan (?) development around where the Salvation Army used to be.
South of Holgate, the future of industry in general seems uncertain. Alaska Copper moved many operations to Kent, the brewery and Boiler Works are long gone, Ardaugh Glass closed its facilities here and in Houston. OTOH Prologis (logistics and warehousing) has been building like gangbusters. And aren't they putting in another cruise ship terminal down there somewhere?
Nah, it’s either “all of the above” for building our way out of the housing or not — urbanists can’t have it both ways. We either believe in free market/deregulated zoning to build housing or we don’t, not picking and choosing depending on whose idea it is.
The Stranger and “progressives” are pro-housing unless Sarah Nelson wants housing and/or someone will make money off of it? Got it. Good lord, the far left has lost the freaking plot over and over again.
Also, if you are aligning yourself with the Port on land use issues… yikes.
Reading through this and seeing some of the usual suspects complain about this on social media only reinforces my believe that the housing crisis in Seattle is as much about building housing as it is about remaking entire neighborhoods to fit activists bizarre belief in "housing justice". They hate SFH and label is as exclusionary and classist but generally it comes down to envy. Basically if they can't have it they want to destroy if for everyone else. Thankfully they continue to expose themselves by complaining about opportunities to make progress but not the progress they want.
So it is OK to destroy industrial jobs but we can't possibly have a zoning code as liberal as Spokane's. Because our single-family neighborhoods are special. They require huge lots and density limits to keep out the riff-raff. Oh, you can build a big house, but it better not be an apartment.
@6 there are no industrial jobs being destroyed Ross. As has been noted Hanson already owns the land and was planning to put a stadium there. I didn't hear any complaints about that from urbanists. Fight the fight on SFH if you want but don't shit on the prospect of building more housing because its not in the area you want it be in. Either we have a housing crisis or its more about getting back at those who think they are special in your mind.
@9 wrong.
Hansen lost the fight to put a stadium on his speculative investment. He lost, and we redeveloped Key Arena instead.
As a result of the decade long process of compromise, Hansen had the right to out hotels on that land. Not a stadium.
Hotels are not permanent housing and don't require the amenities and necessities of life, like noise reduction, pollution reduction or additional resources like schools, libraries, pharmacies, grocery stores, etc.
That was the compromise. Hansen wanted a do-over now that he had a more friendly council.
The article states, seemingly as established fact, "Half of any residential units in the project would be required to be affordable. Proponents of the Maker’s District say it would support small businesses and artists, add much-needed affordable housing to the mix..." But what does this actually mean? Affordable to whom? Why accept empty claims from proponents of this giveaway? A giveaway not just to hedge fund short-seller Hansen, but to the developers who get city tax breaks for this bullshit.
The actual legislation
(read it for yourself: https://seattle.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=13670864&GUID=64FC9887-3846-45C3-BCF1-FD179FFC137B )
states "Occupancies of dwelling units are voluntarily limited by the building owner to support the availability of housing that is affordable." Note the word "voluntarily."
Now note the specifics (which appear to be voluntary):
"A minimum of 50 percent of the dwelling units are made available at affordable rent or affordable sale price... to eligible households with annual incomes at or below 60 percent of median income for SEDUs, 80 percent of median income for studio and one bedroom units, and 90 percent of median income for two-bedroom and larger units."
So, 50% of units are a mix of so-called affordable, including SEDUs which are apartments with a minimum of 220 sq. ft, TOTAL (i.e., including bathrooms, cabinets, closets, appliances, and structural features). So, it is possible for a developer to have a substantial portion of their "affordable" units be these tiny apartments, the only apartments priced to supposedly be affordable to folks making under 80% of AMI. How much would these ridiculous units cost? According to 2024 AMI they would cost $1,386/mo. So that is the claimed affordability. And who would rent these? Almost certainly wealthy out-of-towners wanting a place to hang for business or sports events.
If you do the calculations a family of 3 would now be charged $2,673 for a 2 bedroom apartment, the rents being much higher when built. How is this affordable? How is this helping low-income or minimum wage folks? How does this even marginally solve the housing crisis? Of course it is not. Yet at council yesterday councilmembers repeatedly used, interchangeably, affordable housing, low-income housing, and worker housing.
Let's be clear: the term affordable housing in Seattle is a feint that sets housing rents and sales at ever increasing levels because they are based on AMI (Average Median Income) which keeps on increasing as low-income and working folks are pushed out of the city and higher income folks flood in because they are the only ones that can afford these rents, creating a positive feedback cycle of increasing AMI and increasing "affordable" rents.
@10 — “Hotels are not permanent housing and don't require the amenities and necessities of life, like noise reduction, pollution reduction or additional resources like schools, libraries, pharmacies, grocery stores, etc.”
This is such a bullshit reason to not build housing there instead of a hotel. All of the things you listed have had closures, are closing, or are threatened with closure right now. A way to reduce or reverse these closures is to add housing and have more people! That way you can keep the things you listed open rather than having them close.
The link below purports to show the extent of the "district". If true, I don't know why anyone is worked up about this. It's basically First Ave S between S Royal Brougham and S Holgate, along with the vacant lot to the west of Lumen Field. I don't know how much housing they can squeeze in there.
@14 — “If true, I don't know why anyone is worked up about this.”
We know why The Stranger’s worked up over it. Anything that Sara Nelson supports is self-evidently bad, even if the thing she supports is something The Stranger has previously loudly supported. Can’t wait for Nelson to say something really egregious like “cookies are good” so we get 10 Slog posts about how anyone who likes cookies is a sociopath.
ALL of the property Hansen bought was in a “stadium overlay district.” That is how the City Council itself zoned this property. Then when he actually wanted to build a—you know—stadium, they freaked out.
It was a travesty.
Please wait...
and remember to be decent to everyone all of the time.
I’m glad this passed - seems like an excellent use of land near major transit hubs (and the canard that somehow housing mere blocks south of multi million dollar housing never rang true). And as much as I support unions, we really need to look at automation to move containers between the docks and railways (like most modern ports around the globe).
So is the takeaway that this is terrible because of Sara Nelson and Chris Hansen, but wonderful because people can grow Chai in SODO?
As far as "industrial lands" go, that doesn't really start until south of Holgate. North of Holgate (and east of Utah Ave) is taken up by the Amtrak yards, the Metro Yards, The City Motor Pool Maintenance facility and what appears to be a stalled Vulcan (?) development around where the Salvation Army used to be.
South of Holgate, the future of industry in general seems uncertain. Alaska Copper moved many operations to Kent, the brewery and Boiler Works are long gone, Ardaugh Glass closed its facilities here and in Houston. OTOH Prologis (logistics and warehousing) has been building like gangbusters. And aren't they putting in another cruise ship terminal down there somewhere?
Nah, it’s either “all of the above” for building our way out of the housing or not — urbanists can’t have it both ways. We either believe in free market/deregulated zoning to build housing or we don’t, not picking and choosing depending on whose idea it is.
The Stranger and “progressives” are pro-housing unless Sarah Nelson wants housing and/or someone will make money off of it? Got it. Good lord, the far left has lost the freaking plot over and over again.
Also, if you are aligning yourself with the Port on land use issues… yikes.
Reading through this and seeing some of the usual suspects complain about this on social media only reinforces my believe that the housing crisis in Seattle is as much about building housing as it is about remaking entire neighborhoods to fit activists bizarre belief in "housing justice". They hate SFH and label is as exclusionary and classist but generally it comes down to envy. Basically if they can't have it they want to destroy if for everyone else. Thankfully they continue to expose themselves by complaining about opportunities to make progress but not the progress they want.
So it is OK to destroy industrial jobs but we can't possibly have a zoning code as liberal as Spokane's. Because our single-family neighborhoods are special. They require huge lots and density limits to keep out the riff-raff. Oh, you can build a big house, but it better not be an apartment.
Seattle Left: More Housing!!!
Provides more housing
Seattle Left: Not like that!!! You have to f*uck over the middle class too!
So, yay housing!, right?
@6 there are no industrial jobs being destroyed Ross. As has been noted Hanson already owns the land and was planning to put a stadium there. I didn't hear any complaints about that from urbanists. Fight the fight on SFH if you want but don't shit on the prospect of building more housing because its not in the area you want it be in. Either we have a housing crisis or its more about getting back at those who think they are special in your mind.
@9 wrong.
Hansen lost the fight to put a stadium on his speculative investment. He lost, and we redeveloped Key Arena instead.
As a result of the decade long process of compromise, Hansen had the right to out hotels on that land. Not a stadium.
Hotels are not permanent housing and don't require the amenities and necessities of life, like noise reduction, pollution reduction or additional resources like schools, libraries, pharmacies, grocery stores, etc.
That was the compromise. Hansen wanted a do-over now that he had a more friendly council.
@10 and how would having apartments there impact jobs but a hotel would not?
The article states, seemingly as established fact, "Half of any residential units in the project would be required to be affordable. Proponents of the Maker’s District say it would support small businesses and artists, add much-needed affordable housing to the mix..." But what does this actually mean? Affordable to whom? Why accept empty claims from proponents of this giveaway? A giveaway not just to hedge fund short-seller Hansen, but to the developers who get city tax breaks for this bullshit.
The actual legislation
(read it for yourself: https://seattle.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=13670864&GUID=64FC9887-3846-45C3-BCF1-FD179FFC137B )
states "Occupancies of dwelling units are voluntarily limited by the building owner to support the availability of housing that is affordable." Note the word "voluntarily."
Now note the specifics (which appear to be voluntary):
"A minimum of 50 percent of the dwelling units are made available at affordable rent or affordable sale price... to eligible households with annual incomes at or below 60 percent of median income for SEDUs, 80 percent of median income for studio and one bedroom units, and 90 percent of median income for two-bedroom and larger units."
So, 50% of units are a mix of so-called affordable, including SEDUs which are apartments with a minimum of 220 sq. ft, TOTAL (i.e., including bathrooms, cabinets, closets, appliances, and structural features). So, it is possible for a developer to have a substantial portion of their "affordable" units be these tiny apartments, the only apartments priced to supposedly be affordable to folks making under 80% of AMI. How much would these ridiculous units cost? According to 2024 AMI they would cost $1,386/mo. So that is the claimed affordability. And who would rent these? Almost certainly wealthy out-of-towners wanting a place to hang for business or sports events.
If you do the calculations a family of 3 would now be charged $2,673 for a 2 bedroom apartment, the rents being much higher when built. How is this affordable? How is this helping low-income or minimum wage folks? How does this even marginally solve the housing crisis? Of course it is not. Yet at council yesterday councilmembers repeatedly used, interchangeably, affordable housing, low-income housing, and worker housing.
Let's be clear: the term affordable housing in Seattle is a feint that sets housing rents and sales at ever increasing levels because they are based on AMI (Average Median Income) which keeps on increasing as low-income and working folks are pushed out of the city and higher income folks flood in because they are the only ones that can afford these rents, creating a positive feedback cycle of increasing AMI and increasing "affordable" rents.
@10 — “Hotels are not permanent housing and don't require the amenities and necessities of life, like noise reduction, pollution reduction or additional resources like schools, libraries, pharmacies, grocery stores, etc.”
This is such a bullshit reason to not build housing there instead of a hotel. All of the things you listed have had closures, are closing, or are threatened with closure right now. A way to reduce or reverse these closures is to add housing and have more people! That way you can keep the things you listed open rather than having them close.
The link below purports to show the extent of the "district". If true, I don't know why anyone is worked up about this. It's basically First Ave S between S Royal Brougham and S Holgate, along with the vacant lot to the west of Lumen Field. I don't know how much housing they can squeeze in there.
https://seattle.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=13670865&GUID=93687E19-EE7B-45AB-9BE3-9A2EA72831AB&G=FFE3B678-CEF6-4197-84AC-5204EA4CFC0C
@14 — “If true, I don't know why anyone is worked up about this.”
We know why The Stranger’s worked up over it. Anything that Sara Nelson supports is self-evidently bad, even if the thing she supports is something The Stranger has previously loudly supported. Can’t wait for Nelson to say something really egregious like “cookies are good” so we get 10 Slog posts about how anyone who likes cookies is a sociopath.
ALL of the property Hansen bought was in a “stadium overlay district.” That is how the City Council itself zoned this property. Then when he actually wanted to build a—you know—stadium, they freaked out.
It was a travesty.