Between 1994 and 2010 Seattle's police chiefs were outsiders. Stamper came from San Diego and Kerlikowske came from Florida via Buffalo. Maybe they were the best of the applicant pool, maybe not. But those 16 years were when the rot set in at SPD, when the problems that led to the DOJ consent decree became widespread. An outsider is no silver bullet, no guarantee that we will see the change we want, just as an insider brings their own shortcomings too.

I don't wholeheartedly trust a damn thing SPD has done in response to the DOJ so far. Not Pugel's fault, and in the weeks since the election he has taken strong steps to try to show good faith with the reform effort.

But compared to a force I might trust, SPD remains a mucky shitshow, and politicos know voters don't know who if anyone to trust of the current players at SPD. I sure don't.

So electeds very well should be as fucking nervous as they are. Often that does trigger a clean sweep, since pulling from outside might spur voters' tendency to give newcomers the benefit of the doubt (at least maybe through the 2015 elections, as you note).

I like what Pugel's managed to get checked off the list, though it's weird all those action items got done not before McGinn lost but after.

But I don't have anywhere near enough information to decide, and hope the effort by city hall and its consultant to gather more is sincere. I couldn't help but wonder if the consultant telling Pugel he was out of the running was a test, to see who leaked and what the response might be. Of course, I've had much coffee this morning.

Well, I'd consider it a consequence of the SPD's failure to police itself and effectively discipline or remove the bad apples. The taint lingers long and deep.

I find the fact that the current Interim Police Chief Jim Pugel was Dominic Holden's babysitter both hilarious and astonishing.

Hiring from outside when trying to make changes in a corrupt system is a standard practice. Hiring Pugel or anyone from the existing system is a stretch unless he can be shown to have been fighting tooth-and-nail for reform from within. You don't make that case.

First for me here. First time I have ever unequivocally agreed with Dominic Holden. Thoughtful and well put-together.

If we keep Pugel the 1970's era ordinance requiring assistant chiefs to come from SPD ranks really needs to be repealed. There's got to be some new leadership introduced somewhere in the chain of command and there's got to be a way to provide an career path to officers without becoming completely inbred.

Based on my own observations and on the informed opinions of people I trust (including but not limited to Dominic's), I think James V. "Jim" Pugel #4696 of has been doing a fine job as interim chief of Seattle Police Department, and that he genuinely supports the need to do things differently than his group has historically done them. But it's probably too little and it's definitely too late.

Every one of SPD's upper-level management is guilty of standing by through a decade or more of regular misconduct followed by regular white-washings by the internal investigations group Kathryn Olson led. Unless there is some strong indication that any of them tried to blow the whistle on their abusive coworkers, I think we should exclude them all from further leadership duties.

Do we have any indication that Mr. Pugel spoke up about the abuses that occurred in the time during which the United States Department of Justice found 20% of all SPD employees' use of force to be unconstitutional? I am aware of none.

"If you see something, say something," should be the new mantra at SPD, and those who were near the top of the hierarchy should not be excused now for their failures to do so in the past. To break down the blue wall of silence, I think we should refrain from allowing those who built it to lead the organization.

"a member of Murray's transition ream"

Danke Freud

Dominic, you're a nice guy for supporting a friend but you're pretty much in the dark on this. It's not news to remind you that Pugel had been a back bench Assistant Chief under several Chiefs. He and Kimmerer are political show horses, not work horses. Pugel is best known for his ridiculous homeless video which he "bravely" released before it was done for him. When it comes to the really tough work of leading and reforming a police force, Pugel has been a nowhere man. His incredibly transparent move to demote chief Reid and Chief Metz was to create a window into his and Kimmerer's souls. If anyone deserved demotion it was Pugel himself and Kimmerer...neither has done anything substantive with DoJ or the national police organizations to actually implement reform. They've been non-players. Those who know Pugel and Kimmerer understand that they are concerned about themselves, and are neither temperamentally capable nor intellectually honest enough to lead other men and women. Pugel lost the rank and file - and other management, citizen groups and concerned and knowledgeable politicians - with his demotion of Metz. He's an amateur player who's not fit for chief nor ongoing employment at SPD.

How in the world can Pugel even be considered to in the running to be the real chief of police? The guy has been an assistant chief since 2001 while the Department deteriorated into the current mess. He was sitting in a command position and didn't see what it took a short investigation from DOJ to find, namely that 20% of the use of force by officers was unconstitutional. If not for DOJ, do you really believe this same Pugel would be doing anything to make reform changes? He is only doing it now because the reforms are being forced upon him and because he thinks it will help him get the real job.

Pugel has helped create the culture in the Department that resulted in DOJ having to step in to protect citizens' constitutional rights. Now why in the world would we want that guy to be chief of police? He has has 12 years to show leadership and courage, and he did nothing. Now after the mayor who appointed him interim chief he starts making some moves, and this writer wants to claim he is the right man for the job. That's ridiculous given Pugel's track record of over a decade of doing NOTHING!!

Move him out as soon as you gain power Mr. Murray! He has had his chance many times over.

A good one on one interview the Seattle Channel did with Pugel this spring.
http://www.seattlechannel.org/videos/vid…

Stamper was probably the best multi-year chief in the last 50 years.

NO police chief could be effective under 2013 laws and politicians and judges. Why? Because the US Constitution as written was designed for WASP Americans who, in theory, at least wanted to be good neighbors and live in peace with each other.

No large multicultural city of hyphenated-Americans can live in peace under the US Constitution as amended. All large American cities need a semi-official red light district that is run by the police.

Consider Seattle before the grand jury investigation. Our red light district was semi-officially First Ave down town, Pike and Pine from the water to the top of the hill, and Chinatown, evening until bar closing. Everyone knew it. No one had to go there. It was safe to walk down town at midnight.

Now it isn't safe down town at noon. In the old days the police ran the city and kept it under control. Maybe in one arrest out of a hundred the wrong person got thumped on. Which court or judge has a better record of not screwing up?

"Now it isn't safe down town at noon. In the old days the police ran the city and kept it under control."

Have you been downtown lately, at noon or any other time? It's packed with people not hiding behind their keyboards bemoaning about the demise of downtown. I've worked downtown for more than 25 years and lived here for 12 years and have never felt myself in danger. Sorry you do bro.
I do have to agree that Stamper was the best police chief in forever, and was forced out way too soon.

@16
Yeah I bet that seems fine until you're the one in a hundred(actually way higher percentage) that got beat up by cops for no reason.