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Mar 26, 2014
and remember to be decent to everyone
all of the time.
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The reason you can't win this vote is that not enough Seattle voters share your contempt for low wage workers. And you guys are going to try to win a campaign where your hatred threatens to boil over every time you open your mouth?
It's going to be Mitt Romney's 47 percent video all over again. You know who caught Romney saying what he really thinks? A bartender that Mitt treated like a piece of furniture.
You guys have lost this argument. You've lost the voters. Nobody believes you, nobody shares your contempt and bile.
You know why nobody buys it? Facts.
and when unskilled fools like you get laid off, I will still be laughing all the way to the bank. You want to know why? Because I have marketable skills that are valued in the job market. You on the other hand, can only try and "vote" yourself a raise. LMFAO..loser. People like you are in the position you are in because you expect everything to be given to you - never once do you actually think to improve your lot in life by actually working for it.
face it: no skills = small wage.
Labor costs were 35% of revenue.
A 61% increase in pay - really closer to 65% once the employer match on Social Security taxes is also factored in - would have increased labor costs to more than 57% of revenue. That would have easily wiped out all of Dad's income - and a lot more.
If Dad had faced that he could have shut down the business - eliminating 24-28 jobs, plus his. Or he could have raised prices 22% to accommodate the increase in labor costs while maintaining his own income. Probably even more, as it wasn't the kind of town that would absorb a 22% price increase for an option like eating out, so he would have had to get even more money out of fewer customers. Or have fewer employees for the lower volume of business.
Of course, his hourly income would have been a lot lower than that of his lowest paid employee at that point.
That was only one small business. Different businesses vary. But it's why I'm skeptical of those who minimize the impact this will have on businesses and prices.
Americans need to learn more about how business works. Businesses are nowhere near as profitable as many think. They are not sitting on piles of cash. They only make a nickel in profit for every $1 of sales, not 50% as many think.
How about the people who want to earn more go start their own small business, start their own restaurant, instead of asking others to give them more.
No one is saying that airplane mechanics should make the same as fast food workers. We just think that anyone who works full time, in this country, should make enough to live on, and "but I want to make x-much more than service workers! my feelings will be hurt and I'll stop doing my fucking job, if I don't" is a pretty weak argument.
And as an employer, if your business model depends on paying people so little, you don't "understand" anything but your own inability to make a proper business model. If your business goes under because of the increase, good. This is Seattle. We have zero problem attracting businesses here, so this is purely your own problem.
The restaurant business is tough, for sure. But there are a lot of rich people in this city, and they all like to eat out. There's huge demand.
After the increase you could raise prices, just like a lot of businesses will, and remain competitive. Or, maybe your business model doesn't work even then, and you'll go under. The thing is, Seattle's workers can't wait around for every single person that wants to run a restaurant in this city can realize their dream. If you can't make it work, this isn't for you, too bad. Try something else. Not Seattle's problem.
Losing business to the suburbs makes it Seattle's problem.
Losing small businesses in Seattle will be everyone's problem. welcome to fast food nation..have fun working for the chains.
BTW we in the former confederacy have a much lower dole dependency rate than the Northeast, West Coast or Midwest. People cannot wait to move here.
Texas, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville even Louisiana with 5% unemployment are superior to Seattle in standard of living and upward mobility. Seems like even South Carolina, the heart of secession has taken a big deal away from Seattle.
Keep dreaming. Have a nice day.
BTW we in the former confederacy have a much lower dole dependency rate than the Northeast, West Coast or Midwest. People cannot wait to move here.
Texas, Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Nashville even Louisiana with 5% unemployment are superior to Seattle in standard of living and upward mobility. Seems like even South Carolina, the heart of secession has taken a big deal away from Seattle.
Keep dreaming. Have a nice day.
And here's the difference between employers and renters: people who have capital or access to capital can make choices that determine market conditions. E.g. at the moment you can choose to pay poverty wages regardless of how profitable your business becomes. No one (legally) has to care. You also have the option to alter your business model and pay decent wages, but until it's legislated, why would you bother?
This is the reason civilised societies temper market freedoms with protections for those who don't have the power that capital buys.
Lets start off with I employ 70 people> not 70 poverty wages as a majority of my employee's make more then minimum wage(75% or more) nice assumption there. As for driving the wage market lower what would you suppose is more pure way of navigating the wage market for those ex-cons, non-english speaking & often low skilled workers then the current system.
Your argument with Employers vs Renters totally missed the point. My point was that a 63% increase in cost( realizing here I am aware that its likely to be phased in) is an incredible increase in cost to absorb. Employers btw are renters not just homeowners as your biased narrative would imply & do not have access by in large to large sums of capital by in large.
Food for thought: How does manufacturing fair in Seattle if they sell goods and services to a global market(ie;not the newly minted $15 dollar Seattle consumers you speak of). Let me guess they should just leave right? and their workers just a casualty for a dignified ginned up moral cause.
Renters have choices as well they could raise revenues(prices) by getting a 2nd/3rd job. Or get a roommate ect. But just like business owners they may choose to leave due to the burden of the new cost.
Do you really care about folks about the folks at the bottom of ladder? Have you done anything lately about it. Or this an intellectual sim city conversation that tickles moral background.
I have no idea what you mean about "a more pure way of navigating the market". This has nothing to do with how employees navigate the market. The state needs to provide basic wage protection for those people so that business owners don't exploit them. Simple.
For you it is not a 63% increase in labor costs, is it? It's only that much for 25% or less of your workforce. Is that a make or break difference for you? I have no idea, but I do know that with the current system, once you get profitable enough that it's no longer make or break, there's nothing to stop you continuing to pay poverty wages. Do you think that's fair?
Access to capital is generally what allows people to start in business. I'm not saying you're a billionaire, I'm just saying you very likely had that choice, and the majority of minimum wage workers do not.
I think its fair to pay minimum wage as you note for someone who would otherwise make nothing. But if Cost of living keeps going up as it has been for 30 years what makes you think $15 is going to cut it. "Minimum" means your skills dictate you get the minimum.But everyone across the board gets a wage bump.
Looking deep down inside I want my employee's to live happy,prosperous lives.Which is why i pay more then minimum wage to the majority of them.But there is some very lowly skilled people I employ purely because of the minimum wage. So yes my business model should a needs to change as you pointed out. Once passed those lowly skilled people who make sense at 9.32 are gone @ 15. 70 now becomes likely 60 or 63. And guess what poverty doesnt come down abit.
What a perfect summarization! Grand slams
the argument for the $15 minimum wage
right out of the park.
If we did that, would we get our country back?
Also unclear about whether you are going to respond to a higher minimum wage by a) closing shop and firing all 70 people (dramatic!) b) firing 7-10 people whom you only hire at poverty wages for charitable purposes anyway and keeping everyone else's wages the same (not too much profit lost there), or c) raising all 70 workers' wages by 63% and hoping for the best (generous! but scary!). There's one more option you might not have thought of: d) raising your minimum wage earners to the new minimum (and keeping them on because they do work that you need), making smaller upward adjustments to next bottom tiers of your salary scale, and absorbing the costs through a combination of adjusted profit margins, adjusted prices and possibly expanded sales (if as predicted this helps stimulate the economy). Radical suggestion, but it is at least worth considering, isn't it?
And no, it had never occurred to me that people can increase their pay by getting more education/skills. You literally just blew my mind.
Seattle's economy is thriving, and has no problem attracting people or business. A slight increase in restaurant and retail prices will have little if any effect on this.
And all of the minimum wage jobs in Seattle are going to disappear overnight, forcing restaurant workers, baristas, many hospital workers, cashiers, shelve stockers, janitorial workers, daycare and elder-care workers, and many others to go to the suburbs looking for work? Because Seattle, a city of 634,000, will have zero need for workers like this when the minimum wage increases? Sounds legit.
But hey, go ahead and vote yourself that raise you feel so earnestly entitled to, minimum-wage workers! Just remember that your much-deserved raise will be paid from the wages of the guy that is let go, and you are now responsible for doing his job as well! Good luck with that, bro!
We do agree on a few things.
1. I will have to raise prices and test the market( not a threat just an economic reality)to see if customers are willing to pay them. I have tried it in the past when I expanded my labor force and their is an elasticity to demand even with a 1% increase.
2. I will let certain people go who are underskilled (7 on the shortlist currently)for $15 and likely replace them with some automated equipment which doesnt make sense at 9.32@ 1120 hours per month but does 15@ 1120 hours per month.
Do we agree that the idea of the "minimum wage" is to help poor workers make a better living?
Will some of these workers get $15...yes!! Will some be laid off yes!! Will it cause inflation in cost of Goods yes!! Will the cost of living be more affordable in Seattle for the poor?
After all San Francisco is often referenced as a great comparison for Minimum wage(27%)is the 2nd most expensive city in the United States.How many people making $15 could live in the confides of San Francisco or Seattle for that matter.
No one btw has answered about what happens to Manufacturing in Seattle. Seriously? These type of business dont derive any economic benefit from more Seattle-lites having discretionary income. They often sell globally. So their costs go up and no offset..
Min wage is for unskilled labor, and not something that should be long term. It's more for high school and beginning college kids. If you think it is suppose to be a livable wage, you are kidding yourself. If livable wage is $20 and you're making min wage, get a room mate or 2, that way you're splitting livable wage 3 ways (give or take a bit for food and stuff) so you can live of the current min wage.
In all, if you raise the min wage, every thing else is going to go up to follow suit.
The only way to even begin to fix the issue, is lower the cost of living. Living downtown in ANY major city is expensive, and if you think making min wage and living downtown is ever going to happen, dream on. As I said before, if you plan on LIVING off min wage for long term, you are gonna have to get roommates and live in the outskirts of the city, like Everett or further north. Instead of spending money debating this issue, spend the money in Schools or Public transportation so the people can get an education and get a higher paying job, or live in the cheaper areas and be able to commute to their job without having to pay for a car (gas, insurance...).
What Ph'nglui conveniently left out was after that increase Seattle's inflation dramatically increased and was well above the national average. Here are the CPI #'s for Seattle for 88' & the years after. 88'-3.3 %, 89'-4.7%, 90'-7.4%, and 91'-5.8%, 92'-3.7%. The 3 years immediately after I-518 are the highest CPI increases in Seattle in the 25 years since 88', when supposedly not a "ripple" was caused.
I am not suggesting that the raise in wage was the only cause of this spike in inflation in Seattle, but to suggest that raising wages doesn't cause inflation is just ignorant. Unless of course you think the shareholders at Starbucks will take the extra costs out of their profits. (Not Likely) Or that the local coffee shop or bistro has such large margins they won't have to raise prices to remain profitable.
I worked at Pacific Coast Feather Company for over 3 years. I worked in a role that was lets say administrative and required a 4 COLLEGE degree. The pay was barely above the proposed minimum wage increase he is supporting. I find it funny that Mr. Hanauer wants to give someone flipping burgers a 200% raise increase. Yet his CEO instituted a wage freeze and laid off over 1/3 of his workforce from the Seattle corporate office over the past 2 years. This was after it was reported that the company had its highest profits in three years at last years corporate meeting which his brother Adrian attended. You might want to look in your own backyard before you start touting the benefits of raising the minimum wage sir quite honestly you come off as a moron. It seems that you don't have a clue whats happening to the company that built your family fortune. Or it could be that you just don't care or this is a jump point into some kind of political career. Pacific Coast Feather is KNOWN for underpaying its employee's just look at glass door. The people who worked and are currently working there didn't and don't deserve it.
— Unemployedandbroke
More money in the hands of workers means more demand and more jobs. If raising the minimum wage cost the loss of jobs those lost jobs will be starvation wage jobs which replaced the living wage jobs large corporations shipped overseas along with the money they are avoiding paying taxes on.
We don't want starvation wage jobs being the norm in this country! We need investment in public education, transportation systems, the things that historically create wide based prosperity and progress in America!
Short term corporate profits on the backs of low wage workers who can't afford their own food or education is a bad bet for America. These corporations are multinationals with no stake in the success of our communities. Time to protect our own. That takes setting a standard of decency in the work place.
Thanks!
More money in the hands of workers means more demand and more jobs. If raising the minimum wage cost the loss of jobs those lost jobs will be starvation wage jobs which replaced the living wage jobs large corporations shipped overseas along with the money they are avoiding paying taxes on.
We don't want starvation wage jobs being the norm in this country! We need investment in public education, transportation systems, the things that historically create wide based prosperity and progress in America!
Short term corporate profits on the backs of low wage workers who can't afford their own food or education is a bad bet for America. These corporations are multinationals with no stake in the success of our communities. Time to protect our own. That takes setting a standard of decency in the work place.
Thanks!
Second. Why stop at $15.00? Why not $20.00 or $25.00? Heck I know how to make it so Seattle is home to only the wealthiest people in the world, you make it $50.00 an hour!!! Viola problem solved no poverty.
Now add this into the equation. WE HAVE EXPERIMENTAL DATA AS TO WHAT HAPPENS WITH MINIMUM WAGE VERSUS NO MINIMUM WAGE!!!
It is in Europe. Look at France. Their minimum wage is $12.50 an hour. Their youth unemployment averages between 22% and 24%. In the USA at $7.25 it averages 12% to 14% and finally the economic powerhouse of Europe, Germany. Its minimum wage is... $0.00
That is right Germany has no minimum wage. Their youth unemployment rate is... 8% on average.
oh well whatever.