Washington Just Announced the First Measles Death in the United States in 12 Years. What's Wrong with Us?

State Lawmakers Failed to Close a Loophole for "Personal Belief" Vaccine Exemptions This Session, Leaving It Up to Physicians to Somehow Get Through to Parents

Comments

1
Give the GOP types time-next year, they'll be saying we have to respect people's personal freedom to get scurvy, whooping cough, and the Black Death.
2
The reality is that American's as a whole fail when it comes to science. Look at the number of anti-vexers, the climate change deniers, the creationists, the anti -GMO crowd and the more recently the anti-HIV PreP crowd. They all hold to their uneducated beliefs based on a cherry picking of data to support their position. And it's usually an example of "Well, the vaccination doesn't prevent this or there is a slight change it could do this" or "Well it doesn't protect you from this or that!" (which the treatment isn't designed to do) and the list goes on and on.

And the worse part of this anti-science thinking is BOTH conservatives and liberals engage in it. It's embarrassing to say the least
3
it's because of the bullscript and lies published [Brownstone article] by the media that parents are apprehensive about vaccinating their children. How could they not be skeptical when you are constantly feeding them bullshit all while parading around waving a truth flag?

The mere fact that the media and the govt. deems it necessary to lie about the reality of the situation is a clear signal that something is wrong and if it really was as your ignorant ass claims, why the need to spread rumors?

A journalist concerned with The Truth; intending to empower The People with knowledge of it; would take the minimal effort to find out the number of people who have -- according to you -- a legitimate reason for not being vaccinated due to allegedly being im-mu-no-com-pro-mised and how few the number actually is. A real journalist would have the balls to say fuck the bought and sold out AP and print a story about the truth of how lethal measles really is along with how and why the govt. decides to demand vaccination or let it go with viruses such as chicken pox.

It's publications such as this piss poor excuse for publishing the "facts of science" which is nothing more than an attempt to ridicule those who have the courage to think critically and for themselves -- that some childish mocking can sway parents to overlook all the lies and simply vaccinate their healthy child just because you claim to know "facts" proved by "science"

The mere FACT that the media and the govt. exaggerates the truth to the point of lying is all some people need to know they should notblindly accept your demands on their and their childrens' bodies
4
@ Dipshit #3, please keep your children away from our children. People like you have brought measles back. We'd rather you not bring polio back as well.
5
My children are vaccinated Stupidfuck, and attempts to con and bullshit people into vaccinating only makes the problem of unvaccinated community members worse

But journalists are too stupid and/or too lazy to take the minimal effort of publishing the facts, especially when some idiot male leader of the heard believes it's too risky

It's dumb fucks like you that make democracies dangerous (uneducated, presumptuous sheep) and the media who dictates what your allowed to believe that is part of the problem instead of being part of the solution
7
I can't tell where you fall on this David, if you see it as just another chapter in the story of ignorant journalists disseminating more horseshit in order to program the masses whom they (asshole journalists) believe they have the right to make decisions for The People, or whether you believe it's OK to demand vaccinations to children but not adults, as banning a practice such as circumcision is not the same debate as demanding circumcision for children to attend public school.

It's funny how the AP and every shit sheep journalist who bows to them never mentions the extremely low mortality rate of preventable diseases such as measles. We are not talking about small pox or polio -- for which a case for mandatory vaccination is easily made -- we are talking measles, mumps, and rubella, and the ignorant, arrogant AP and it's obedient slaves speak as if it's on par with the plague

These assholes conveniently forget to tell you that the mortality rate of persons who have contracted measles is less than one out of one thousand people. As in for every thousand people who get the measles, one person ends up dying

It's actual facts such as these that tell you the whole bullshit story of a person dying due to measles in 2015 is a total horseshit story. And whatever doctor or coroner allowed his name to be attached to such a complete bullshit story is no scientist, he's just another piece of shit journalist who believes it's OK to abuse their right to free speech

The technicality of saying it was pneumonia doesn't mean shit when they know damn well associating the death in anyway to measles had one and only one manipulative motive, to distort the truth so that the media can effectively control The People so that they don't put their foot down and continue to be complacent while the self-appointed master race of males are allowed to commit atrocities against humanity

fuck those sheeple journalists
8
Wow, the only thing missing from Dumbshit @7 is all caps.
10
we love to joke about the Darwin award for people who die by stupidity (firework on their head etc) but maybe a few deaths from measles is also not the worst thing in the world, and actually makes the species stronger.
11
@10: except that often the victims are not the ones who refused vaccines, but those whose immunity is impaired and either can't get it or can't mount full immune responses even if they do get it. This is precisely what herd immunity is for.

Don't want to get vaccinated, either you or your kids? Fine. Just don't expect to be able to mingle with the herd.
12
@10
Also consider this, though deaths from measles is very rare in the US, worldwide is another story. In 2013 there were 145,700 deaths from measles. Vaccination rates have steadily increased in other parts of the world which has helped reduce the death rate. In 2000, there were over half a million measles deaths. In 1980, it is estimated that measles caused 2.6 million deaths. The majority of the deaths were children under the age of 5 along with those whose immune systems were compromised.

I believe the concern is coming because there are certain segments of the US population that has been grossly misled about vaccines. We are starting to see levels of vaccination decline in some areas. With measles there needs to be a 90-95% vaccination rate to maintain herd immunity to protect those who can not be vaccinated or are immunocompromised. As vaccination rates decline, the disease has more opportunities to gain a foothold.
13
@11, along these same lines, I think anyone favoring a 'biblical world view' and related un-scientific, proudly ignorant conceptions of the Universe should also be barred from access to any medical intervention -- that is, any medical technology beyond what was available prior to The Enlightenment, and the careful and patient findings of serious minds over the last few hundred years. C'mon, religionists -- have the courage of your convictions! You don't need vaccination, painkillers, germ theory, penicillin, etc., just your faith in Yahweh/Jesus/Allah/Zeus/Vishnu/etc. Same for the conspiracists -- you don't need mainstream medicine telling you how to live your life! Go ahead and trepanine yourself in the mirror, let out the Ill Humors, treat that cancer with ginseng! Go for it!

But your children, who do not yet have the legal agency yet to make these decisions about faith-based silliness, should not be made into martyrs of your clouded world-view. Your parental rights should not trump their civil rights to be spared from the consequences of the poor choices you impose on them!
14
I’ll just go ahead and say it: the PNW is weird, in a libertarian / anti-government / conspiracy nut sort of way, so it’s no surprise you have such shitty vaccination coverage. It's just part of the culture there. From an outsider’s perspective, Seattle is the lone beacon of sanity in a sea full of nutty white people with guns and regressive tax laws.
15
@6, I don't believe anybody anywhere is recommending forcible vaccination. There are no bills in the works saying kids must be held down and stuck with needles or else they, or the parents, will be thrown in jail. That is not on the table anywhere.

What is being proposed is that if you choose not to vaccinate your kids (without a good medical reason) then we're not going to pay to school that child and allow you to put everyone else's children at risk. When you want societal benefits (like free public education) you have to accept the responsibilities involved. In this case, the responsibility is to vaccinate your kid.

Or, you could always homeskul yer dum kid yerself.
16
Vaccinations are like unions: the world we live in now (in the US) is, in part, the result of both these things. People who don't remember --- or never learned --- what life was like before, now think they are not necessary.
17
@Dirt
Depending on access to health care, the mortality of measles may actually be less than 1:1000....but did you really just imply that 1:1000 death rate for any preventable is a GOOD thing? If 1:1000 children just up and died over the next month in the US that would be ~75,000 dead children. Simple statistics would tell us that the risk of death or morbidity from the vaccine is far less than 1:1000. Even if there are risks to vaccines, which statistics tell us there are not...at least not the kinds of risks anti-vax folks wail over, the reward versus risk is vastly tipped in vaccines' favor.

Let's put that 1:1000 number in a different light. If a person had a 1:1000 chance of dying every day, 1:100 people would be dead before their 28th birthday, 2:100 by their 55th birthday.

Your implication that 1:1000 is acceptable, when there is a far safer alternative, is obtuse. What you're implying, without saying it out loud, is that you believe there is in fact a definitive risk with this vaccination that is higher than 1:1000. Otherwise there is no reason why you would choose a higher risk for you or your child instead of the lower risk from the vaccine. If I offer you a 1:1000 chance of dying tomorrow versus a 1:10000 chance is there any compelling reason to pick the higher risk unless you have some tinfoil hat conspiracy theory behind your decision making?

Research time and time again has shown that all the fears about vaccine administration are unfounded. But if you still think that there are risks with vaccines that are worse than the diseases they help prevent, there's no convincing you at this point. Sadly, the research so far has also proven that point...no intervention has yet been discovered to convince folks like you that vaccines make utter and complete sense.

18
Now we know the value of a single human life. Saving the life of an adult who voluntarily goes into into harm's way once every 12 years is worth violating the civil rights of 8 million people in WA. At that rate, motorcycles, skiing, mountain climbing, sky diving . . . should also be banned. Also booze, pot, bicycles, ciggy butts . . . maybe bacon, ice cream.
19
There have be several anti California pieces on Slog recently, but you can now suck our dust on mandantory vaccines, you anti vaxx barbarian state.

20
@ tempo36,
I agree with your argument but your mathematical reasoning is off. You say that for someone to choose not to vaccinate the likelihood of death from the vaccine would have to be higher than the 1:1000 chance of dying from measles.

Since "everyone" gets vaccinated but only a small percentage of people (even unvaccinated people) get measles it's a little more complicated. If we assume that there are 1 million people, all get vaccinated and 10% get measles then 100,000 people got sick and 100 people died. Then, if the death rate from the vaccine itself is greater than 1:10,000 it would be riskier to get the vaccine than not to, counting just death, not the general unpleasantness of measles. Of course it's more complicated than that since even vaccinated people have a risk of contracting the disease but it's a little closer to accurate.

Fortunately "From 2006 to 2014, over 2.5 billion doses of covered vaccines were distributed in the U.S. according to the CDC. 2,975 claims were adjudicated by the Court for claims filed in this time period and of those 1,876 were compensated. This means for every 1 million doses of vaccine that were distributed, 1 individual was compensated." http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/…

So, even if you assume a very low likelihood of getting measles and a very low likelihood of dying from measles, it's still vastly more dangerous than the vaccine itself.
21
@18, you have to work on your math way more than 17.
22
@18 How pray tell are vaccinations a violation of anyone's Civil Rights? Good luck taking that one to court. We enact laws all the time that cover the public good. As soon as your actions have the potential to harm others and not necessarily just yourself, your argument falls flat. It is why we have laws, for example, that prohibit smoking in bars and restaurants. Another would be, you can drive your motorcycle but you can't legally drive it 100 mph through downtown.
23
@14 it's like the joke about the 1st Thansgiving - the table was tilted , so the nuts rolled West, and the Turkeys stayed East!
24
Tempo, the research has time and time again shown that vaccines are safe for adolescents, but when you are talking children < or = 5 that is not the case.

The is always a small percentage of children who will never completely recover from the affects of vaccination at such an early age. While it's true that number may be close to zero, but the number is NOT zero, and when you're talking about people making an informed decision, they should know numbers, and they should be presented with numbers that are not intended to have a dramatic affect.

But you never see articles published that compare the minuscule risk with the minuscule risks of contracting the disease.

You never see articles published the viruses more on par with this not very dreadful measly mealses

the media throws numbers out there, but conveniently doesn't mention how many more people die from the common cold

The media is not interested in publishing the facts about the origin of the infection, or whether or not vaccination would have prevented it, they want you to buy their horseshit without thinking about it.

It's pretty fucking pathetic

you fucking idiots can post all your ignorant insults as they mean nothing, you fucking morons wouldn't know real science, or understand basic individual rights, if it bit you in the ass
25
@24 Love to see your research on this. It seems to be very unique, so it must be very interesting!

(Hint: You can locate Caps Lock on the lefthand side of your keyboard.)
26
@24 - Would you care to enlighten us with the "real science"?
27
1 in 68 children is autistic. good thing the government is doing something about that.
28
@27 hmm...seeing that there are absolutely no connections between autism and vaccines, perhaps you'd like to elaborate....
29
fuck you painless,

If the media was publishing real science data, every relevant number would be there, such as who these people are that children waiting to be vaccinated are putting at risk?

How many people cannot legitimately get vaccinated, for this -- again not very deadly -- communicable disease?

Why did Washington State deem it necessary to publish this horseshit "Death by Measles" story, and who was the idiot who officially said Measles killed them?

was it nobody?

I am not anti-vaccine you fucking moron, I am anti-manipulative media because they (you all) are evidently to stupid to understand that when decide to begin thinking critically, your blogger mentality and media-pseudo science, and other slanted attempts doesn't help the situation

you make it worse

and gross invasions of privacy such as the sophisticated "marketing" research by companies like GM will only cause backlash. The media still doesn't fully comprehend that The People's minds are no longer theirs to control. Retooling search engines cannot hide the Truth from critical, independent thinkers. Only reporting the data you choose as oppose all the data collected is not science

People are far more intuitive, and becoming more so, than the idiot male gender is smart enough to comprehend. We live in an age where science is coming damn near the point of revealing all, The Truth cannot remain hidden, which is why it's best to begin practicing it, because if you don't, and refuse to respect it, males will cause any species to go extinct once they begin living in cooperative colonies, the smart orders choose to bannish them so that the Hive to live.

Humans are the idiot swarm, that's not hive mentality, and idiot swarms go extinct
30
Yes Doug,

Real science doesn't give a shit about anything but the truth. Scientists don't attempt to sway people's minds (unless you are talking about psychology, which last time I checked is an arts and letters degree)

Real science is above the bending of truth in order to influence personal beliefs, that's bullshit psuedo-science and it's what "The Church" engages in as well as their idiot mirrored image nemesis "Dawkins et al"

Real scientists don't contaminate their work with biased bullshit, they have no iinterest in furthering any belief other than that know as The Truth.

A real scientist tells right wingers, sloggers, and the media all the same thing. I amount to fuck you or the jist of go fuck yourself (Not necessarily you Doug) but anyone who is stupid enough to justify stretching any truth for cause or effect. To do so set's the ball in motion to commit the first casualty that begins every war
31
@29
hmm...no science. Well darn!

Just a friendly tip:
Don't tell anyone, but I hear that the Government can't trace your posts if you use all caps. You should try it.
32
Pneumonia is not a separate disease really, it's a symptom of a very serious infection, and can occur from probably hundreds of different types of microbes. In this case, pneumonia was a side-effect of the Washington woman's measles infection. As is typical with viral infections that overwhelm the body, the lungs get infected, fill with fluid, and one essentially drowns in lung secretions. So yes, this woman died of measles, even though it's true that the proximal cause of death was that the virus overwhelmed her respiratory system.

http://www.lung.org/lung-disease/pneumon…

http://reason.com/blog/2015/07/08/immune…

33
10 million+ Americans are immune compromised. That number does not include people taking immune-supressing drugs for chronic diseases like RA and IBS (like the Washington woman under discussion). I couldn't find the numbers on that population but I suspect its at least millions more.

http://thebulletin.org/growing-number-im…
34
it's* (I hate when I do that)
36
@28 where did i claim connections between vaccines and autism?
37
FUCK YOU PAINLESS

and bullshit Sandiai, it's not simply the number of the total immuno-compromised, but the number of unvaccinated immunocompromised.

And the story is horseshit, I am sure a woman died, I am sure that while she was on deaths door to begin within, suffication from liquid in her lungs delivered the final blow, and the media being the media, sloggers being sloggers, some idiot journalist decided to twist it.

there's nothing new here

A real journalist, as opposed to tabloid blogger, would get the details before they ran with it, but they don't give a shit if it's true, they only care how they can use it to further a cause. Any Cause worth supporting shouldn't have any trouble sticking to facts.

and most idiot sloggers aren't interested in facts, it's witty quick painless insults, all show and no go pseudo-intelligent, although pseudo isn't the right word, it's whatever word describes someone who only cares to appear intelligent, real intelligence isn't loyal to the idiot swarm.

I am not anti-vaccine, I am against assholes who stretch the truth to sway beliefs. Very few labs have the capability to diagnose an acute case of rubeola, and the "the science" behind whether or not the vaccines do harm or not has been a grey area.

FUCK YOU PAINLESS

for years SSPE (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis was a neurological disease that typically took 7 years to develop (either from natural measles infection or vaccination) the science on what causes it is not definitive, and when I was in school I was taught the reason they went with the natural infection as very carefully claimed the vaccines didn't cause it, was due to a decrease of SSPE after introduction of live-atenuated vaccine.

That is not science, it is not definitive and it is stated as an assumption.

"...a decrease in frequency of SSPE in the United States, suggesting that the vaccine virus either did not cause SSPE or is involved at a very low incidence.."

"Atypical measles syndrome occured in children who had been vaccinated with multiple doses of formalin killed measles vaccine and subsequently exposed to wild type measles virus... The syndrome has little relevance today, but the experience serves to emphasize the safety concerns that should be addressed by those wishing to develop alternative measles vaccines or to explore alternate routes of vaccine delivery..."

The 8th edition of the Manual of Clinical Microbiology editor in cheif Patrick Murray published by ASM press

FUCK YOU PAINLESS THANKS FOR MAKING ME HAUL OUT MY OLD TEXT BOOKS

I am not saying don't vaccinate, I am saying people have a right to know the facts, and you all mother fuckers are the types of misery loves company, if this was small pox or polio, I would speak out pro-vaccine, but it's fucking MMR, and it is extremely hard to vaccinate against and proving impossible to erradicate, as even in populations well above the 92% rate still have outbreaks, it's why they have to give multiple shots to people spaced out by years after the disease popping up in virtually complete vaccination scenarios

Just because I took the vaccine and my kids had it, if the science is iffy, I don't think others should be forced or peer pressured into it,

you dumb fucks want others to do it because you blindly did it and took a risk, well fuck you

Oh, and you may be right, the person may have died from measles, as now that I go back over texts books I haven't looked at in several years, THE SCIENTISTS, fuck you painless dipshit, say that reoccurring outbreaks are inevitable

"Given the widespread international travel, measles will continue to occur even in highly vaccinated populations "

they say that in 2005 the WHO added to the list to attempt to eradicate it, and the science on whether or not it can be done is not cut and dry, it's not definitive, it's guess work.

Do you know the reason the three viruses are combined into the MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) because clinical differentiation to distinguish between measles and rubella has become increasingly difficult. "The paucity of measles cases in the US and other developed countries has led to a decline in diagnostic acumen..."

so it could have measles, outbreaks are to be expected

you fucking assholes mocking people claiming it's all cut and dry don't know shit, and the only thing the laymen has to know is that you assholes aren't above resorting to it, so fuck your opinion

and fuck you, ignorant low life pieces of shit =)
38
^citation needed
39
everything was from "The Manual of Clinical Microbiology" volume 2, 8th edition, Patrick R Murray, Ellen Jo Baron, James H Jorgensen, Micheal A Pfaller, Robert H Yolken

it's not as cut and dry as what idiot ignorant sloggers that are parroting shit they know nothing about claim.

If it was something more deadly the rubeola and rubella, I might be less understanding of abstainers, but I wouldn't go mocking people claiming they are ignoring science when the dipshits who are mocking them don't know jack shit about science

fuck sloggers, just a bunch of bullshit bloggers, idiot swarm central

fuck um
40
^ Oh hey look, I think that was what the young internet savvy kids call a "flounce." I'm so glad I actually got to see one in real life.
41
LOL. Ouch.
42
Shit--I guess my decision NOT to ever have kids was spot on.
43
this painful idiot I know spocan, whom my foul mouth is too much for seems to forget that it's never as clever as it sounds when spokane by an ignorant fool who believes hisself to be knowledgeable

none of you ignorant fucks is knowledgeable enough to mock others, excepting your holy grail of bullshit and control of the internets by brilliant savvys
44
oh! my bad, you were talking about real news, you fuckwits were discussing e-measles, boy you sure showed me, seeeing as we're talking about two different things, I can always a new computer and plug it into a new network, fuck your measly coded rubyola language

people who are part of the problem are all just idiots who are part of the problem, idiots are idiots are idiots, and it's all sloggerville (like springtucky) to me
45
@44... the stupid is strong with you.
46
@37
Once again not really sure what your point is here. Is it, "I hate journalists, they are all stupid!" or "stupid scientist are stupid because they're not definitive. And they're stupid!" or "I hate slog because it makes me mad!" or "The evil government is plotting vaccine mind control!" ? See if you look back through your posts, you really don't make any sense. And as long as you stamp your feet and yell into the ether, no one will take you seriously.

Oh, a couple things.

Atypical measles syndrome was an issue with MMR - 50 years ago. It is why MMR was modified in The late 1960s.

WHO says that a 95% immunization rate is required for defective herd immunity. A pretty tough standard to maintain. But still worthwhile to attempt to eradicate.

SSPE is exceedingly rare. It averages 10 cases a year in the US. So, I imagine it would be difficult to study. But as you stated, it is not thought to be caused by MMR. MMR is thought to have reduced incidences of it.

Not sure how all of this demonstrates a lack of knowledge or diligence on the part of immunologist that you seem to suggest. All I know is you sure do hate them. No question there.

Lastly, if you are not anti-vaccination then perhaps you do not want to use the word "sheeple." This is anti-VAX talk for people that do not agree with you.

I do feel that you perhaps have some sort of mental issues demonstrated here. In all seriousness, perhaps seeking out help is warranted. But hey, if having crazy word salad rants on slog keeps you from hurting yourself or someone else that's always a good thing. Please, have at it. And Don't forget the all caps!
47
*definitive herd immunity -not "defective"

You'll probably like defective better anyway.
48
@Root

I chose small simple numbers to make a basic point but intentionally left out the more complicated points of transmission rates, vaccine failure rates, incidence, etc. But as you noted, the point stands that the risk of vaccines is lower.

@24
No data set has ever shown the risk you're claiming. Whether it's <5 year Olds or teenagers or anything else. There are real medical reasons why folks shouldn't be vaccinated, but they're almost never the reasons why you people "think" they are.
49
one immunosuppressed patient died from a disease which she was vaccinated against.

?what's wrong with 'us'?
50
the whole premise of this slog is strange. vaccines don't have 100% efficacy. even if they did you can give all the vaccines you want to an immunosuppressed person and their chances of creating the antibodies needed to fight disease with a weakened immune response are greatly reduced. so you can point the finger at 'us' but what is really wrong is that the woman wasn't able to fight off infection due to being immune compromised

i guess it's a big deal because she died from measles but if she had died from a staph infection or the flu what kind of article would you be writing. can't vaccinate against staph and about half of all people get flu vaccines, which are only 18% effective this year

from webmd
"Feb. 26, 2015 -- It’s no secret this year’s flu shots didn’t work as well as doctors had hoped. But the news got worse Thursday when the CDC revised its estimates of the flu vaccine’s effectiveness downward even further, from 23% to 18%.

That means for all ages, getting vaccinated cut the risk of needing medical treatment for flu symptoms by just 18%."
51
Public shame folks. My kids are grown and out. But if you have young kids, put the word out that no unvaccinated kids are welcome at your home and you won't send your kids to theirs. No birthday parties, play dates and more.

And work on getting our legislature to adopt a no tolerance law. How quickly people forget about the havoc and misery that preventable diseases cause.

Someone murdered this woman, by putting her in touch with the unvaccinated kids or selves. Collectively we all did.
52
@51 how do you know the person that gave her the measles was unvaccinated?
53
No loopholes for "Personal Belief" period, and that should include tax exemption.

But If they insist on exercising their personal belief with this issue we should quarantine them to protect the public from these diseases physical and mental. They like self segregation, it is a win win situation.

The audacity of these religious groups to hold their religious laws above the laws of the people and to carve out loopholes in our laws for themselves never ceases to amaze me. Laws are for everyone for a reason. CLOSE ALL THE RELIGIOUS LOOPHOLES! They are unfair and undeserved and undermine our justice system.

http://states.secular.org/states/washing…
54
Thank You Stringent,

At least you had the courage to upfront, and clearly state what this is about, a very deserved bitterness and backlash against religious persons.

I don't blame you one bit, as it was definitely the church creeping into govt policy which was directly responsible for the govt sponsored bigotry again families that are headed by same sex partners.

I can understand being weary of any legislation that allows for loopholes due to religious belief, and it was the far right zealots and church leaders who actively and successfully -- until just recently -- fucked over LGBTQ people but still successfully fucking over Poly people.

I have no trouble respecting direct, honest opinions

Painless, you are an idiot, and an asshole. You are ignorant about how science works, yet arrogant and the most dangerous type of idiot is the arrogant -- like yourself -- whom consider themselves knowledgeable.

You mistakes are the same as the media campaigns which are NOT based on science, but a twisting of scientific results based on using different words.

Science to the media -- and ignorant fucks like you (typical sloggers) -- is the practice of how two identical sets of results could have opposite affects on public opinion depending on the write up of the same results or even two different write ups of one experiment.

That is not science, it's psychology, and it's why universities who preform the research for reputable academic journals have all dropped their subscription to Nature and it's two other subsidiary journals, because they are no longer peer reviewed. The journals were bought by publishers and now have control over the printed content, as opposed to scientists and peer review being in control of what gets published.

Park Place, you are well within your rights as a citizen to do exactly what you are asking of people to do, you might want to educate yourself on which communicable diseases and their risk of said diseases being contracted, as well as how bad actually contracting the disease would actually be, before you go and call on society to labor to exclude theses people,

while you're at IT, perhaps we need to redefine to re-emphasize the difference between personal private spaces and how they differ from public spaces, as I would sure appreciate POS violators to respect private places and properties.

so to reiterate, fuck you painless, you ignorant fuck, to park place, maybe re-evaluate your position lest you become like painless

and just to remind stringent, there are people whom are simply questioning the govt policy of specific vaccination, particularly the MMR, because there are many documented cases which have no cut and dry, no black and white scientifically examined data to rule out cause nor effect. The "suggestions" of the data that were used in order to make definitive statements which idiots like painless ignorantly parrot, is not and are not actual science.

And such declarations would never be accepted as conclusions for any scientist to make in any legitimate experiment published by a reputable academic journal.

furthermore many of the suspect side effects have occurrences that are greater than the number of cases of the disease itself. With measles in particular, the SSPE version of measles (the sickness of catching the measles just a little bit) can be far worse than the disease itself.

Oh, and painless, I didn't say the vaccine doesn't cause it, I quoted one of my old course books and made it a point to state that careful wording that the scientist used, as scientists report the truth, and that's what he did, some media evaluation and politicians get to the final say on the CDC's official public opinion, so while they may have claimed the vaccine doesn't cause SSPE, the scientist made sure to say the truth, that it only looks like it may not be directly responsible for it, OR if it is responsible for it, it is responsible for very few cases of it, probably only a dozen or so a year.

go fuck yourself
55
oh! and the quote by "one law maker" of "We thought these diseases were eradicated, and now they're back in our midst."

no dipshit, we know measles wasn't "eradicated" because not every disease has the same characteristics, some diseases can be effectively eradicated, and others it is not possible, sort of like measles mumps and rubella may very well prove to be

I and not saying we should do away with MMR vaccine, I commend those who have the courage to question whether or not we should continue, and don't believe that parties who are willing to twist the facts should be part of that discussion.

It's not wrong to have opinions, it's wrong to lie about them, it's why stringent and park place deserve to have their opinions respected, and ignorant fuckwits like painless and the articles parroting author, can go fuck themselves
56
Oh no! It seems I have irritated some piss poor rumor mongers in “the industry” as there is a drastic difference in results yielded from search engines when you go looking for measles statistics, there is also a rash – no pun intended – of stories being published in the media by these whore mongers attempting to use words to paint a different picture other than reality.

The media really should stay out of publishing anything health care related, until they learn to report the unvarnished truth. Whatever politician thought it was a bright idea to hire media to publish information about vaccines for the CDC is far from the sharpest knife in the drawer

Case in point, though unrelated particularly to Measles, search the web for information about the suspected thimerosal which contains Mercury, instead of addressing The People's concerns, some idiot looked to the media to write an explanation in order to calm peoples nerves. The best way to do that, is to make the vaccines safe, not bullshit people to put their mind at ease. Bullshit published claims there is a big difference between methylmercury and ethylmercury, and then makes vague claims about the safety of one over the other.

Bullshit, the EPA's recommended levels of acceptable exposure is to Mercury, and not one form of Mercury but all compounds with Mercury, and especially not two nearly identical molecules containing mercury.

The methyl and ethyl is simple molecular nomenclature, which is counting the number Carbon-hyrdogen chained atoms linked to the molecule. Meth=1 , Eth=2, But(pronounced “butte”)=3, Prop(pronounced “prope”)=4

the difference is one CH2 chain link, methylmercury is C-H2-Hg whereas ethylmercury is C2-H5-Hg

both forms bio-accumulate and neither are good for the body to ingest or acquire, compound such as lead and mercury, and other “heavy metals” do harm people, just because the EPA lists a level that is deemed acceptable to expose humans to, the complete avoidance of any exposure to heavy metals is what you should try to do

The Media doesn't care about the facts they are writing about, they only care about how those facts can be stated, in order to control your point of view

so while you are out there media newspapers, magazines, blogs, and for fucks sake even CDC publications, just remember that the whole measles shit storm, is little more than backlash towards the religious right for fucking over same sex couples and illegally withholding your rights Declared centuries ago by the Founding Fathers. The Media is too stupid to understand that it's not a “religious” objection, and it doesn't mean shit nor does it set any precedence towards the wedding industry to discriminate against LGBTQ and Poly people.

It's not wrong to rail against those who fucked you over for so many years, I am not criticizing any backlash, just quit spreading misinformation as the facts and belittling people about Science, when you yourself don't know jack shit.

None of the measles articles get the facts, none of the measles articles care to ask what tests were run to comnfirm the cases of where people allegedly contracted “measles”. Because knowing the media, they are likely calling any suspected cases confirmed, and again, there are a lot of bullshit “confirmations” as the tests for diagnosing acute measles is extremely lacking, nowhere near as accurate as other medical tests, and so flawed that if measles were a disease treatable with drugs, there is no way that todays tests would be viewed as acceptable reasons to begin drug treatment, because the tests aren't reliable nor accurate

any media agency who bows down to the Associated Press and the attempts to own your reality, needs to go fuck themselves
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Dirt. While you are kind of amusing with your vague comments about how people are blowing this out of proportion while not really offering data of your own, you utterly list credibility with "the methyl and ethyl is simple molecular nomenclature [sic]"

Anyone with basic chemistry knowledge would never suggest that a tiny change like a carbon group makes no difference. It's the difference between isopropyl alcohol, ethanol, and methanol. It makes an entirely different substance!

Just because ethyl and methyl mercury share a Hg atom doesn't mean you can in any remote way make claims of toxicity of one based on the other. You can swear and insult folks as much as you like, but you're just trying to smokescreen your own opinion and lack of facts with rhetoric.
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Tempo, if you think methylmercury bio-accumulates and ethylmercury does not, that your body is able to deal with ethylmercury any better or allows it to passes through any better -- at all -- than methylmercury, then you have no business even participating in discussions about the harm of either.

You should visit your local university and speak with a biochemist, ask them about the difference between being exposed to ethylmercury and methylmercury. Yes they are different molecules and that one Carbon-hydrogen chain can make a huge difference, but in terms of mercury toxicity to humans and wildlife, that one carbon chain means absolutely nothing.

All I am saying is that bullshitting the public is a dumb idea, it leads to situations which we are now experiencing, people saying fuck you and your vaccines, whereas an honest track record is THE ONLY THING that will dispell unnecessary concern about vaccination safety

And to those is does not, you won't be able to sway anyway, People deserve to know the Truth, and are actually fairly wise to take a "fuck you" stance when they are not allowed access to truthful information
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Or, ya know, you could look at actual data that shows that ethyl and methyl mercury DO get absorbed and excreted differently. Turns out that extra CH2 actually does make a difference.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles…

The study didn't even say that ethyl mercury is safer or not (but I'm posting it anyway...because it's science which isn't always cut and dry). But your ridiculous implication that one chemical is somehow equal to another just because you want them to be is absurd. Course we are also not mentioning that thimerosal isn't even in childhood vaccines (except flu) anymore. Nor that it's been proven safe time and time again...
60
thanks for illustrating my point tempo, one would think that a site like NCBI wouldn't leave publication duties to idiots, yet here it is that some idiot is able to produce a meaningless bullshit html page from a URL from the ncbi domain (I don't even want to think what would have happened if I clicked on your link)

if it was legit, the author would have known that mercury doesn't bioaccumulate in blood, so how in the hell any real experiments could be done using blood samples as data is any journalist's guess, scientists wouldn't print bullshit, they'd actually preform real experiments and be looking for actual answers instead of trying to persuade the public about anything.

Heavy metal exposure is NOT good, but unfortunately most of the worlds waterways and oceans have been contaminated. There are real studies that produced results that appear that ethylmercury may be slightly less harmful than methymercury -- methylmercury being the heavy metal that most Pacific Northwest rivers and streams have been contaminated with as well as showing up in small amounts in many ocean harvested fish like tuna -- there is a real reason for people to avoid exposure and ingestion of anything containing mercury, including vaccinations that contain them, people who abstain from vaccines with thimerosal have a very valid, legitimate concern despite all of the biased articles that hail their relative safe use

My point was that all of the info the media uses as "scientific facts" in order to belittle those weary of certain vaccinations, are far from facts. What they claim are unbiased articles, are extremely biased versions and extremely biased reviews of legitimate science research.

I am not against hard lined policies without any loopholes that exclude unvaccinated kids from school

I am saying allow parents to have access to actual facts regarding unbiased science. Let them make an educated decision and then they can choose whether or not to suffer the consequences.

As it stands we have concerned parents who may make the wrong decision for their children, thanks to the media and their willingness to publish biased opinions and one sided reviews disguised as unbiased factual reports.

In many cases parents are directed towards completely fabricated bullshit stories presented as real academic, scientific journal entries as a place to gather important info needed to make the right decision

and that is fucked up

there is no right or wrong decision, yes or no answer to vaccinate will vary from parent to parent, but when the actual facts are not readily available its damn near impossible for any parent to make the right decision for themselves. They make the "right" decision for the media, and their extremely slanted view of the world

It's not wrong to exclude unvaccinated kids from school

it's wrong to obfuscate facts and then allow parents to make decisions based on bullshit
61
Dr. Opel is right, if we relied on science, the question of gun control would be a slam dunk. Tens of millions of people own and use firearms every day without incident, and thousands if not millions of times a year people successfully use them to defend themselves and their loved ones from being victims of violent crime. Less than 1% of legal firearms in the USA are used in crime. By "science" there is no sound reason to infringe on the peoples' natural and inalienable, Constitutionally enumerated-right to keep ends bear arms.