I'm glad this passed.
You should be too.
Now take a moment, or all the moments you need, to possess the fact that the U.S. is setting up an underground railroad for pregnant women and trans kids.
Soon enough it will need to include trans adults, and then every other LGBT person.
Meanwhile many parents no longer want to say " good bye" as they drop their children off at schools across the nation, it just seems so foreshadowing.
Parents now send their children to K-12th grade with the same sense of foreboding that an earlier generation of parents sent their (mostly) sons to the war in Vietnam.
Let that sink in.
Meanwhile books are being pulled from school shelves,
Younger generations are working longer and harder yet can't afford homes or families.
Be proud America
Glad it passed except for the "gender care" without parental consent for minors part.
@1: "..., and then for every other LGBT person"
Perhaps so, but this is an unforced error. Gay acceptance is staring to backslide for the first time in years. I wonder why. For decades now gay and lesbians have been safe from descrimation because of the fact that sexual orientation is innate and cannot be changed, giving us equal protection parallel with the immutable characteristics that define other minorities. This remains true. But now thanks to the gender in the blender cult, these protections will unravel.
They'll unravel not because we in the community understand the nuances between gender and sexual identity and expression, but because they will be twisted into even more disengious talking points by politicians with bad intent.
This is a great decision by the legislature! Makes be glad to be here instead of some of the other states I've lived in.
@2 raindrop Sacrificing some people's rights for the sake of others is never the right answer. We must be relentless in our commitment for all people to be treated with dignity. There will always be those who seek to divide us, then conquer us. Don't let them win.
Washington law says someone is not legally competent to consent to sex until they are 16. You can't vote until you are 18. Can't get a tattoo until you are 18. Can't smoke or drink alcohol until you reach 21.
Think back to when you were 13? Ever do something then you now regret? Think you were wise enough at that age to decide something that will affect your life forever, and can never be reversed?
Under Senate Bill 5599, a kid will be able to change their gender at 13, without their parents consent, or even knowledge that this is being considered, or know where their kid has run away to. Pubertal suppression and gender-affirming hormone therapy, which permanently alters you ability to have children, can start at age 13. Double mastectomies at 16, genital surgeries around age 17, including womb and testicle removal. And the people holding your kid don't have to tell you a thing about it. But your insurance will be billed, and they and you as a parent will be forced to pay for it.
This bill basically allows a group to kidnap and keep your kid away from you. And do what whatever they want to convince the kid change themselves forever.
This basically legalizes a cult to control your kid, to do what cults do best - fuck you up forever. And a parent can't do anything.
@4 forestwater Have you read the bill? https://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2023-24/Pdf/Bills/Senate%20Bills/5599-S.E.pdf?q=20230415113347
Here are some relevant portions:
"If there are compelling reasons not to notify the parent, the shelter or organization must instead notify the department. (...) When the department receives a report under subsection (1) of this section, it shall make a good faith attempt to notify the parent that a report has been received and offer services designed to resolve the conflict and accomplish a reunification of the family."
Here the "department" refers to Washington state's department of children, youth, and families. So no, they don't get to just kidnap children and not tell anyone, they have to notify the government, then the government notified the parent and mediates. And nothing in the bill repeals laws against holding people against their will. If the person expresses a desire to return home and they are restrained, it's still illegal.
There is a culture in this country which views children as the property of their parents. This essentially means that every person is playing the lottery as soon as they are born. I was fortunate to be born into an open-minded and loving family. When I was in High School, I knew people who were abused and neglected at home, then kicked onto the street at 18. Children have rights too.
@5: You're hanging your rebuttal on legalese that is widely subject to willful misinterpretation by zealous teachers, doctors, and bureaucrats with an agenda. Yes there are bad parents but most of them are good and love their children and their children love them and shouldn't be groomed into decisions they're not ready to make.
Puberty blockers are dangerous, period. Full Stop. Most effeminate boys and masculine girls are gay and lesbian and sort their "confusion" out during adolescence. Only a subset of the transgender population actually has gender dysphoria.
It's quite galling actually that so many are cavalier with the human body, expecting it to not have repercussions from drastic procedures. The voices of regret over transitioning are growing, especially over continued joint pain, atrophy and other pathologies. But these issues are far less of a worry for adults who transition who have a matured body with a well developed bone structure, muscle mass, and endocrine system.
That said, transgenderism can be a truly wonderful thing. As I've written before, I've seen great happiness in the transformation of a dear friend, but she did it as an adult.
Yes saffronsnail, children have rights too. They have the right to make adult decisions for themselves when they're adults. Don't rob that from them.
Oh, and you misread @3 and @4.
Yes, only a small subset of the population has gender dysphoria. And yes, puberty blockers have consequences. So does puberty. It would be great if we could just wait and see, but nature won't wait for our age of consent laws.
We typically don't do this kind of legislation about specific medical procedures. The executive branch created the FDA because these are complicated topics that require medical expertise and consideration of the unique circumstances of the patient. Legislation that seeks to overrule the administration tasked with handling these matters is irresponsible. Saying "(t)he voices of regret over transitioning are growing" might make for a good social media post, but it's junk science.
@7: Understand that I am against legislating prohibitions against medical procedures. Worse thing you can do is drive this underground. But what we're talking about is the assault on parental consent which is an add on to this bill that also covered abortion. Inslee should line item veto this out.
There are no adverse biological and medical consequences to humans going through puberty, in fact totally the opposite as is true for the rest of the animal kingdom. Psychological and emotional for those who have gender dysphoria, I'm sure. But not life threatening. [Please don't play the suicide card.]
But you're foolish if you don't resect all aspects of "gender fluidity", right? Do you really think everybody charts the same path? Transition includes detransition. Indeed "trans" itself an inherently bi-directional prefix. Not junk science - it's basic facts and math.
TRAs should be welcoming and cultivating detransitioners' input and experience instead of treating them like adversaries. I'm not saying detransition negates the need to transition, but please let's be realistic about these matters.
Take Detransitioners Seriously
I'm not saying that de-transitioners don't exist. I don't think it was unreasonable to infer from your previous posts that you supported the legislation banning trans health care. De-transitioners do matter, but most of the time when I see people saying things like "(t)he voices of regret over transitioning are growing", they are building an argument in favor of banning trans health care. The statements that we make are situated in the context of general discourse, and this has to be taken into account. I agree that these procedures are not risk-free, no procedure of this magnitude is risk free.
I will say though, that calling it "the suicide card" isn't actually an argument. We (as in, American culture in general) have a tendency to consider psychological and emotional harm to be somehow "lesser" forms of harm than physical harm. They're not.
@9: Well, that's why I clarified. I don't think are differences are that wide actually, except we disagree on the parental consent part. This is a super tricky and hypersensitive topic to discuss, as we know immediately after clicking post how things could have been worded better.
Great. But who pays for all this? Abortion, particularly drug induced, is cheap. So, no problem. But the surgical procedure? Not so cheap.
Gender affirming care: Not cheap at all. There's drugs (puberty blockers, hormones, etc.) some of which might be a lifetime expense. The reassignment surgery isn't inexpensive either.
The kids coming here from Idaho aren't going to be bringing their parents' medical coverage policy with them. Not that this sort of thing is likely to be covered. But there's the procedures on the monthly statement that will have to be explained. And then, one way or another, mom and dad are likely to find out anyway. So these trans kids are likely going to become permanent refugees. When we can't even house our own homeless population.
Have someone run the numbers and come up with a bottom line figure. Because, like all the other altruistic stuff that our state commits us to, pretty soon someone will have to go looking for the funding.
@10 raindrop Yeah, and I totally get your concern. I don't agree with the way you're weighing things, but your position seems reasonable to me. Unlike the whole "ban healthcare by short-circuiting the FDA" nonsense that's going on elsewhere.
Also, to be clear about the FDA: it is a bloated administration that is too cozy with industry. I don't automatically trust everything they say. But the bills aren't trying to fix anything about the FDA, they're targeting one particular minority group to be treated differently than everyone else, and that's a massive red flag.
This bill will enable a child seeking gender affirming care to run away and come under state care. There is nothing in the bill that states "it is specifically intended to reunify children with their families."
According to the bill final report, Washington state "Must offer services designed to resolve the conflict and accomplish a reunification of the family." That can mean a lot of things. The report also states that Washington state authorities (Dept. of Children, Youth and Families) must be informed within 72 hours but does not provide a time frame for parental notification.
You can read the final report here:
The bill will enable a child who disagrees with their parents about their treatment for gender dysphoria to disappear from their care, or threaten to. This is a central element of the bill. Yet there are reasons to question whether a medicalized, "gender-affirming" approach is always the best trajectory for people under age 18.
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