Savage Love Episode 272

Comments

1
Hey Dan & team,

I'm a big fan of the show and want to thank you for what was an informative and surprisingly not depressing episode that was largely devoted to pedophilia.

After years of listening to the podcast, I get a little annoyed at people who call in and spend 20-30 seconds telling you/us how fantastic their relationship is, only to say "BUT..." and then finally get to their problem. I understand the necessity to provide context, but I wish that callers would get to the juicy stuff more quickly instead of rambling on about how happy they are (except for this one major thing that they are really unhappy about).

I think that we as the Savage Love community can generally agree on what a healthy and happy romantic relationship looks like. Is there any chance we can all agree on an acronym or 1-3 word phrase to describe that?
2
Good episode - I wanted a little advice/clarification on the issue of young gay men inflating their age online etc. to hook up with guys that would be normally adverse to it. I'm on Grindr and a few other gay social apps and websites, and, from time to time, a message pops up from a boy who in his profile claims to be 18-20, but is CLEARLY younger than that - some of them look no older than 14 or 15. While I have never engaged them back, I wonder if that's doing a disservice? Should I be, you know, trying to help? Saying "what are you doing here young man? Don't you know someone could take advantage of you!?" even though that's exactly what they want? Should we (the "elder", "responsible", "not-creepy" gay dudes) be giving these mis-representing teens a heads up about what kind of guys they're gonna be meeting out there? Thus saving them some potential trauma, and some dummy who actually believes them a potential sex-offender registration.

Thoughts?
3
This reminds me of a local case where I live. There was a pedophile that was in group therapy and he admitted during one session to fantasizing about some children he saw in a park. Somehow some government officials found out about this and banned him from the parks. My first couple of reactions:
1. This is just going to stop other pedophiles from seeking help when they find themselves experiencing urges.
2. Do they really think that a park is the only place he could see children?
4
Wow, there was a whole lot going on in that podcast - glad I could be a part of a bit of brevity at the end. In case anyone is interested in the sexually transmitted allergen stuff, I put up some links here.
5
Thanks for the mushroom info Dan and Kevin, now let us never speak of it again. ;-)
6
Dan, after your reaction to findhisporn.com, I am surprised you are not bothered by couples snooping into each other's email accounts. I would consider reading my husband's email just as much a violation as trying to find porn sites in his browser history.
7
Thank you Dan for presenting this balanced view about pedophilia. Sadly to a lot of people revenge (aka. punishment) is more important than protecting the lives of as many children as possible.

Don't get me wrong: Once somebody molested a child or financially supported the producers of child pornography (which will lead to the "production" of more child pornography and therefore the molestation of children) they should be punished accordingly. But a lot of pedophiles and hebophiles don't want to molest children and they need all the help we can give them.

I am actually surprised that this comment section isn't jammed with a "lynch mob" who complain about your treatment of this topic.
8
@1: Don't you notice what happens when someone says that their relationship is great, doesn't provide any information on its greatness, and then describes a problem? Maybe Dan just shouldn't care, but SLOG becomes full of comments saying to dump the person just for that problem, even if the problem is relatively minor. If people don't explain their great relationship a little, other people assume that the relationship can't be all that great if there's a problem.
9
I'm surprised by how wrong the guest got US mandatory reporting laws. I am a psychologist and am required to report past or ongoing abuse of a child (or the elderly etc) or if my client identifies a particular person or persons s/he plans to harm. I am not obligated to report a person having impure thoughts about someone else. I think a major disservice was done to the "gold star pedophiles" out there who now believe that they cannot admit in treatment that they have unacted-upon pedophilic urges.
10
@Dr. M:
True that. It's a shame Dr. Cantor did't talk about scenarios in which treatment is perfectly available.
Still, the distinction you make between a "plan to harm" and an "unacted-upon urge", might be not so clear to unprepared/fearful therapists.
It's not an easy path to find treatment, I'm sure Dr. Cantor could've enlighted it if he wasn't so urged to paint a depressing scenario.
11
True, Micht, that it would be hard to differentiate "plan to harm" from "unacted upon urge," but if there is no identified potential victim (like in caller one's boyfriend's case), there is nothing one can report. In fact, a therapist could be in danger of losing a license over breach of confidentiality for disclosing the client's THOUGHTS (as opposed to actions).
12
"Kiddie porn"? Let's see, teen and pre-teenage girls in the buff, and 8-10 year old girls who were clothed, but in "provocative" poses (but not engaged in sexual activity). What, exactly, is pornographic about any of that? There's nothing illegal about children posing, nor taking their clothes off.
13
I was a little concerned about the woman who called in saying her boyfriend had pictures of little girls in bikinis - did she mean something like the "Toddler and Tiara" glamour shots? I would like to know what the doctor thought of that show and the whole kiddie pagent phenomenon.
14
For the guy with depression at the end, please seek therapy and get help right now while you have a job... Do what you need to do get the strength to find a job you can live with. It won't get easier as you get more burnt out. Do it now! You CAN do it. Best of luck.
15
I too would like to see some clarification about therapists' obligation to report. I know someone who is probably a pedophile, and has never offended, yet he won't go to therapy because he's afraid of what might happen once he talks about his attractions.
16
Hmmm, I like reading porno comics with young girls in them. I have no interest in kids or younger people irl. I guess I also have a daddy dom, so it might be that I like it from identifying through the girls?
Idk, am I a pedophile?
17
@2: To be fair, just as a 14-year-old can look 17 or 18 as the psychologist clarifies, an 18-year-old can look "no older than 14 or 15." Just take it from the 21-year-old who people regularly assume (because I don't wear make-up and have a slight overbite) to be 4-5 younger, and has had to endure tons of condescending looks from potential employers and bartenders who assume I'm lying about being over 18/21. I wouldn't be surprised if people have jumped to the same conclusions on dating sites. At least I'm in a relationship now and don't have to worry about that anymore!
18
A friend of mine got a visit from the cops - they said it had been reported that someone was acting inappropriately sexually with an underage boy. His short, slight, not-really-THAT-breastless 28 year old girlfriend was not amused.
19
·What the hell can be done? ·

Well, first stop cursing. Second, realize that pedophilia IS a sexual orientation, and not a 'fetish' or a 'paraphilia'. Sure, some people might have a stronger attraction to children than others, some might only want a sexual relationship while others might want a romantic and loving relationship, etc... But doesnt that variety of different kind of loves, emotions andfeelings show you that is actually a sexual orientation?

Third, why should you do anything about it? Live and let live. Pedophilia is a normal and natural sexual orientation. Accept it or shut up.
20
The doctor had some interesting information and it is a shame that they can't do more research on the topic. But OTOH, I understand law enforcement's wanting to protect kids from harm.

Should Dr. Cantor be a guest again I was thinking of a couple of questions I would have asked. 1.Why are pedophiles mostly men? You almost never hear about women molesting kids. 2.If he is theorizing that pedophiles are born that way, does he think it is something that happens in the womb or that it is some sort of genetic thing?
21
@19: "why should you do anything about it?"

In a word: Consent. Eight year old children cannot consent to romantic relationships or sex. I think we can ALL agree on that. Also, please don't reinforce the trolls out there who argue that allowing gay-bi-poly relationships/marriage will lead to a slippery slope ending in child rape.
22
C'mon, Starry Night, you had to have known we'd get at least one NAMBLA troll in here.
23
@Brie
Thank you for your comment. I have sought out therapy and found a better job that I like (so far) :)
24
There needs to be more money put into research on the topic of pedophilia so that these people can get help. Allowing them to live in silent misery and then throwing them in jail when they finally break is not the way to handle this.
25
To the 20-year-old woman who likes posting pictures of herself online:

I'm sure there are listeners who would be curious (or excited) to see them. Post a link here, if you are so inclined.
26
What is the best way to get professional help for someone struggling with sexual attraction to inappropriate sex partners, be they children or other; without causing undue panic?