Savage Love Episode 317


Hey Nancy, can you link us to the article? It looks like the link might not have come through.
Dan, Dan, Dan. I love your sex and relationship advice to bits, but you might want to look past the surface on economic issues. Number one, it is not that Hostess doesn't want to pay its laborers - it's that it CAN'T. There was some horrible mismanagement, they went to a bankruptcy judge and said judge RULED that they could (and indeed would have to) cut their employees' salaries as a measure to prevent their doors closing; but the union(s) refused to accept the ruling since apparently to their thinking it's better to have no salary than a smaller salary.
@3 Hey, union blamer:…

And remember kids, the CEOs and board of directors are ultimately responsible for a company's financial state, not the laborers.
@4 You'll notice I mentioned the horrible mismanagement. I'm not absolving the CEOs of responsibility for the situation - they're the ones who drove it into the ground - but the cold fact is that where the company stands now the money simply isn't there. They had basically two choices - cut their employees' pay, or close their doors. The union(s) wouldn't take the deal so now the doors will close and all those people will have no income instead of less income. Also, your link doesn't work.…

"This demand for entitlement has reached a peculiar stage. It doesn't matter if the money isn't there, those making demands still want their checks anyway. Where the money comes from isn't a concern, that the money isn't there in the first place isn't a concern, that the checks are written against an account that does not exist isn't a concern. Explaining the math to those making the demands does not work. Apologists for the Bakers Union are left saying that it is the responsibility of Hostess to provide a job whether it can be afforded or not."
@5 Alright, then, I will play back the other cold hard fact of capitalism: supply and demand works for laborers as well. If Hostess cannot supply, they can demand from someone else. Those workers have already taken numerous pay cuts to save that company, including when it filed for bankruptcy back in 2004. Some people still take their dignity over their basic survival needs. I say good for them.
This is unrelated to the podcast but I didn't know where to put this. Last night Dan came to Madison and talked. I briefly talked to him after and he was as charming as one could imagine. It's always nice to see when people live up to your expectation. Thanks Dan and keep up the good work.
Lol, gay larval stage.
Um...could it be that the outcry after the One Direction 'twink' comment was a homophobic reaction from their fans? Implying that it's defamatory to the band to insinuate that they might be gay? (As opposed to defamatory to young gay men to be called twinks?)
@9 I think that's probably it.
Is there a way we can support the young gay man who came out to his family so he can pay to go to school?
Dan, parts of your advice to Ben was difficult for me to hear but something I needed to hear. I hope you continue to stay in contact with how he is handling his 'hero's journey'. Also, I was genuinely touched by the final caller's comments. I really enjoyed this podcast. All the best to you and yours.
I just want to say that the last caller, the one that talked about how the people who really deserve the gratitude is the people that came out a generation ago, is spot on.

As a straight person, this is something I think about. I am not homophobic in any way, but I always wondered if I'd be that way if I was born 50, 60 or 70 years earlier than I was. I would have grown up not knowing any out gay people, being taught that homosexuality is a perverted sin and they deserved punishment and shunning. If a friend of mine would have come out to me then, would I have been able to accept that? I can't say for certain that I would have: I'm straight, so I would never be able to understand personally what being gay was like, and no one would have educated me about it either.

I am so, so grateful to all those brave gay people who did come out when it wasn't a safe thing to do, and taught us dumb straight people not to be hateful. The friends and family members I have that are gay have enriched my life more than I could possibly say, and I am so happy that I live in a society that taught me to love and accept them, instead of letting hatred and ignorance fester inside of me.

Also, Ben: every person listening to this podcast is on your side and is rooting for you. If you ever feel alone, remember that we are all out there, thinking of you.
Happy Thanksgiving, Ben!
OskarS. Very nicely put.
Thanks to the last caller, you are right, and it is great to hear that coming from a straight person: There is hope in this world.

PS. "Cohort" was a tad technical, that makes one think that gays may be your study subject. ;)
Dan, you make it sound like a lot of women in the USA would be into "kink" because of the high sales of "Fifty Shades of Gray". Well, let's just get some perspective here. Sure, 20 million sold, but with 100 million adult women in the USA, assuming sales were only to them, that's still only one in five women.

I took a personal survey including my wife, mother, mother-in-law, a female friend, and a few other women. Total numbering a little more than 5. And the results are about what you'd expect given the sales. Only one of the women had bought the trilogy. She thought it was a quick read, but not all that interesting. All the other women, including my wife unfortunately, wouldn't touch the book with a ten foot pole.

So these TV reports about housewives all in a group raving about the book, they're exceptions in a bubble, not the general female public. I wish it were otherwise.
I really enjoyed the interview with the lady who wrote the spanking fetish article for the New York Times. I´m just putting this out there: I´m a young queer kinky woman with a foot/shoeplay fetish which is huge. I could really relate to the writer of the article. Similar story, different fetish. Find me on fetlife, I´m desperationfan.
Well, gay people have the same rights like straight people.
There are many straight and gay websites like and once u are on, u just can't leave because u meet with very interesting people even if u are not gay.
Dan, I'm a huge fan, but I thought your advice to the man who "received a mysterious image of a woman's pregnant belly" was off, and contradictory. You just got through telling women that they should tell men who have gotten them pregnant -- there are too many men out there thinking they've never knocked anybody up, because the woman dealt with the consequences and never told them. Admittedly, this woman is going about it in a strange way, but he could respond with some human compassion and concern, rather than immediately jumping to asking for proof. Presumably he liked her enough to have sex with her (though he feels he was manipulated into coming over) -- and he doesn't say whether he used a condom. He can still be skeptical, but supportive and compassionate. Does she have anyone who is there for her? Is there anything he can do?
@20: What exactly do you want? "Honey, that so wonderful! I'm so proud for you!! Once the baby's born, I'll be thrilled to submit to a paternity test, and if it's positive, we'll get those child support checks rolling very first thing."

One way or another, a paternity test MUST be part of the resolution to this situation. If she thinks she can put him on the hook for child support for two decades, then she should be willing to go through the formalities herself.

And she has no right to get all bent out of shape at him for asking, either. It's not like they were in a monogamous relationship and he is accusing her of infidelity. She could very easily have gotten pregnant by anybody other than him at any time. For her to get so angry sounds like she has a thing for him, rather than acknowledging the one-night-stand nature of the event. The the way she is going about it, she sounds like an insane stalker.

Even if she isn't asking for money, if she wants him to be thrilled about being a father, she should provide better evidence than what was mentioned in the call, and he shouldn't worry about hurting her feelings by demanding it. It's not like she is being at all gentle with his sensibilities. Her presentation looks EXACTLY like what someone would be doing if they were trying to scam him.. On the off chance that she is on the level, if she can't understand specifically what about her presentation is giving that impression, she's pretty stupid.