Good Lord. And what's one percent, may we ask? 10, 100, 1000, what? We really don't know. Nobody knows, just a "one percent" is a catchy retort. The fact is there are people suffering. Do you care Viv?
Where else in medicine are people have a bad time with it treated so negligently?
You'd think that the goal would be sufficient counseling and follow up so that an "I wish somebody could have saved me from myself" never occurs. How hauntingly chilling that is.
These are life changing decisions. Childhood is a time when mistakes you make aren't permanent. If we're going to allow gender care for minors, we got to make sure EVERYONE is cared for - even the ones who change their mind.
But you can't really go back, right? That's right. So that's why the "one percent" need care and not just thought of as a right-wing talking point.
The UK and scandinavian countries have put the brakes on puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for minors. Are these "Republican" countries?
"The specter of gender regret haunts differently. Ironically, the focus suggests living in a body intolerably marred by gendered characteristics is a unique horror. The very thing gender-affirming care seeks to remedy."
Yes, gender dysphoria is its own unique horror. But so are the horrors of lifelong medical issues for the "1%".
Regret is an argument against any elective medical care. More people regret having knee replacement surgery than gender transition let alone the reversible treatments available to trans youth. Trans people are far more likely to regret waiting to transition but your concern does not extend to trans people beyond the fact they exist.
I said knee replacement but whatever. The regret rate for both can be as high as 5–17%.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34838410/
OTOH the flip side to the 1% regret rate for gender-affirming care is 99% being satisfied. Which number is bigger, phoebe?
Why does their satisfaction with their medical care that has no bearing on your existence as a cisgender man not factor into your concern? Why does your concern for medical regret not extend to people who have had any other kind of elective surgery, all of which come with a much higher likelihood of regret? I would love to hear your answers to all of these questions.
People who regret the knee surgeries and are vocal about it aren't ostracized from the knee surgery post knee surgery community. Facing such social pressure may be a contributing facture in keeping quiet about regrets.
To my mind, Tennessee didn't make a compelling case that the legislation doesn't run afoul of equal protection. Another aspect of the oral arguments that may sway Gorsuch was the discourse between Kagan and Prelogar was Prelogar's citing the West Virginia law as an example of how states can regulate care with out banning it out right and avoiding the higher scrutiny of equal protection. Never know but Roberts could find that pervasive as well.
Fun fact: your responses to research survey questions about your medical history are not publicly disclosed.
People who detransition are not ostracized but people who actively work to deny consensual medical care to the vast majority of people who are satisfied are treated as pariahs regardless of their gender identity.
Actually, x is unimportant at this stage. More important are children and adolescents who may have gender dysphoria, are autogynephile, are homosexual, bisexual, simply don't know, or who are confused and seeking relief to their anxiety, depression, childhood sexual abuse, normal childhood turbulence, peer pressure, or any other influence. How are they being handled? The overwhelming goal should be that just having one slip through the psychological counseling cracks into regret is one too many - - especially since the risks of being sterile or abridged sexual pleasure (or the issue of having a shortened urethra for MTF or the issues of testosterone and pregnancy for FTM) are among the lifetime-impacting considerations to put it mildly. I hate to be blunt, but being able to pee without worry a good thing. Even with the best surgeons there is risk. These are adult decisions to make.
It's amazing how adults, teachers, and even parents have mostly forgotten how impressionable, gullible, and fickle kids are, as they were themselves. There is nothing magical about the age of 18 that says that the body has reached maturity in mind and body, one could argue it should be 21 or earlier to 16. But at least it's the legal age in our society for which we can say that anyone younger should be protected from their own decisions in making. There are transgender people who agree with me on this. This is a multi-faceted issue we should all be able to discuss without insults alluding that one is transphobic.
@9, That’s terrible reasoning and a ridiculous amount of words that don’t answer my very simple questions. Hiding behind the tiny minority of trans people who agree with you doesn’t address my questions either.
99X will always be bigger than 1X. Denying everyone access to a safe, reversible medical intervention in case anyone regrets it is not how we have ever made these kinds of decisions as a free country that respects people’s autonomy.
Do you think it’s Big Government’s responsibility to keep potential hip replacement patients from consenting to medical care they have a double-digit-percent chance of regretting? Do you think these surgeries should be heavily regulated or even outlawed entirely?
@11 You say that as though you ever would have when you’ve already declined to do so several times, but my ridiculous questions are just applying your logic to medical interventions with far greater regret rates and far less gatekeeping that don’t involve gender transition. If you’re telling me my questions are ridiculous then you’ve more or less answered them (hint: it rhymes with cransphobia).
What those on the left don't understand is that 99% of voters don't give a s**t about all of this nich politics. All of this pearl clutching from progressives is getting a little tedious...
Trans people control the weather. Don't mess with us.
"The 1 Percent"
Good Lord. And what's one percent, may we ask? 10, 100, 1000, what? We really don't know. Nobody knows, just a "one percent" is a catchy retort. The fact is there are people suffering. Do you care Viv?
Where else in medicine are people have a bad time with it treated so negligently?
You'd think that the goal would be sufficient counseling and follow up so that an "I wish somebody could have saved me from myself" never occurs. How hauntingly chilling that is.
These are life changing decisions. Childhood is a time when mistakes you make aren't permanent. If we're going to allow gender care for minors, we got to make sure EVERYONE is cared for - even the ones who change their mind.
But you can't really go back, right? That's right. So that's why the "one percent" need care and not just thought of as a right-wing talking point.
The UK and scandinavian countries have put the brakes on puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones for minors. Are these "Republican" countries?
Be scientific Viv, not political.
"The specter of gender regret haunts differently. Ironically, the focus suggests living in a body intolerably marred by gendered characteristics is a unique horror. The very thing gender-affirming care seeks to remedy."
Yes, gender dysphoria is its own unique horror. But so are the horrors of lifelong medical issues for the "1%".
Regret is an argument against any elective medical care. More people regret having knee replacement surgery than gender transition let alone the reversible treatments available to trans youth. Trans people are far more likely to regret waiting to transition but your concern does not extend to trans people beyond the fact they exist.
Hip replacement? That's a ridiculous comparison as is your playing the transphobia card.
I said knee replacement but whatever. The regret rate for both can be as high as 5–17%.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34838410/
OTOH the flip side to the 1% regret rate for gender-affirming care is 99% being satisfied. Which number is bigger, phoebe?
Why does their satisfaction with their medical care that has no bearing on your existence as a cisgender man not factor into your concern? Why does your concern for medical regret not extend to people who have had any other kind of elective surgery, all of which come with a much higher likelihood of regret? I would love to hear your answers to all of these questions.
People who regret the knee surgeries and are vocal about it aren't ostracized from the knee surgery post knee surgery community. Facing such social pressure may be a contributing facture in keeping quiet about regrets.
To my mind, Tennessee didn't make a compelling case that the legislation doesn't run afoul of equal protection. Another aspect of the oral arguments that may sway Gorsuch was the discourse between Kagan and Prelogar was Prelogar's citing the West Virginia law as an example of how states can regulate care with out banning it out right and avoiding the higher scrutiny of equal protection. Never know but Roberts could find that pervasive as well.
Fun fact: your responses to research survey questions about your medical history are not publicly disclosed.
People who detransition are not ostracized but people who actively work to deny consensual medical care to the vast majority of people who are satisfied are treated as pariahs regardless of their gender identity.
@6: Nancy Pelosi was on my mind.
1% of x? What is x?
Actually, x is unimportant at this stage. More important are children and adolescents who may have gender dysphoria, are autogynephile, are homosexual, bisexual, simply don't know, or who are confused and seeking relief to their anxiety, depression, childhood sexual abuse, normal childhood turbulence, peer pressure, or any other influence. How are they being handled? The overwhelming goal should be that just having one slip through the psychological counseling cracks into regret is one too many - - especially since the risks of being sterile or abridged sexual pleasure (or the issue of having a shortened urethra for MTF or the issues of testosterone and pregnancy for FTM) are among the lifetime-impacting considerations to put it mildly. I hate to be blunt, but being able to pee without worry a good thing. Even with the best surgeons there is risk. These are adult decisions to make.
It's amazing how adults, teachers, and even parents have mostly forgotten how impressionable, gullible, and fickle kids are, as they were themselves. There is nothing magical about the age of 18 that says that the body has reached maturity in mind and body, one could argue it should be 21 or earlier to 16. But at least it's the legal age in our society for which we can say that anyone younger should be protected from their own decisions in making. There are transgender people who agree with me on this. This is a multi-faceted issue we should all be able to discuss without insults alluding that one is transphobic.
@9, That’s terrible reasoning and a ridiculous amount of words that don’t answer my very simple questions. Hiding behind the tiny minority of trans people who agree with you doesn’t address my questions either.
99X will always be bigger than 1X. Denying everyone access to a safe, reversible medical intervention in case anyone regrets it is not how we have ever made these kinds of decisions as a free country that respects people’s autonomy.
Do you think it’s Big Government’s responsibility to keep potential hip replacement patients from consenting to medical care they have a double-digit-percent chance of regretting? Do you think these surgeries should be heavily regulated or even outlawed entirely?
@10: Given my said terrible reasoning and ridiculous amount of words, I'll pass on replying to your ridiculous questions.
@11 You say that as though you ever would have when you’ve already declined to do so several times, but my ridiculous questions are just applying your logic to medical interventions with far greater regret rates and far less gatekeeping that don’t involve gender transition. If you’re telling me my questions are ridiculous then you’ve more or less answered them (hint: it rhymes with cransphobia).
@12: If you want to claim to be the winner of this discussion, be my guest.
Ahh - that worked!
What those on the left don't understand is that 99% of voters don't give a s**t about all of this nich politics. All of this pearl clutching from progressives is getting a little tedious...