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Comments

1
Up early for nightmare thoughts of American politics, eh?
I know the feeling.
2
It's 2 PM where I am!
3
She's dead Dan, just let it go. It's over.
4
Your lips to God's ear, Theodore dear. But I wouldn't be surprised to see her once again be the Green's candidate when they awaken in four years to scold us for not being bright enough to vote for her the last two times.
5
Name and shame, Dan!
6
@4 I figured he was referring to Clinton. If so, you can bank that comment for the next time he talks about the Clinton Foundation or some other moldy antiquity.
7
Alden dear, in what context would my comment be appropriate in any discussion of the Clinton Foundation?

And moldy antiquities not withstanding, the Clintons accomplished things in their lives, and the Clinton Foundation has a sterling reputation among those who choose to inform themselves about the world around them. Jill Stein, aside from her medical degree, has accomplished nothing other than running for President a few times and being one of the people who got to hold the talking stick at some affluent Boston suburb.

As far as The Green Party is concerned, they are a joke. Their list of elected officials is a depressing assortment of academics, town council members, and water district commissioners. They can't even manage to get someone elected to the Seattle City Council (although Peter Steinbrueck did flirt with it, and endorsed Ralph Nader).

It's time it either steps up or shuts down.
8
I wouldn't read anything into that dinner photo. Often at these events you don't know where you'll actually be seated.
9
@7

I believe @6 referred to @3 with the pronoun "he." In other words, save your observation for @3's upcoming comment about the Clinton Foundation or some other moldy accusation about Clintonian hypocrisy and/or corruption.
10
@8: You don't wind up at Putin's table at an event celebrating their propaganda channel by happenstance, Raindrop. Come the fuck on.
12
Some really dim bulbs on here today.

Here is a cool trick: when someone commenting on a post that is solely about one woman refers to a "she," chances are the "she" is the one woman the post is about, not one of the other 3.5 billion women on the globe.
13
@8: "Often at these events you don't know where you'll actually be seated."

This is why you're a Republican, Raindrop.

You're gullible and mind-bendingly stupid enough to believe someone can accidentally be sat next to Vladimir Putin. Seriously, you're either a troll or an idiot. Both perhaps?

@11: The Stranger is covering all aspects of Trump and Trump-kin.
14
@12: "Stein Stein Stein Stein Stein Stein Stein Stein Stein Stein"

< image of Jill Stein>
[Tweets targeting Jill Stein]


(Mentions of Green Party)


*runs up with outstretched finger*


Did someone say Hillary Clinton?!!!
15
I looked at her platform http://www.jill2016.com/platform . The ideas are good and achievable. Trump won because Democrats failed--not just in 2016, but since abandoning social progressivism. Demonize Stein. Fine. If you want change, look in a mirror.
16
@14: Hillary is often shortened to Hills, so if we just change one letter and drop the S, we get "Jill"

Furthermore, if we take the "H" we changed and break it apart, we are left with two "|'s" and one "-"

The "S" we dropped is the 19th letter of the alphabet, so if we re-arrange the two "|'s" and the one "-" we got from the "H," and put the 1 and the 9 in the front we get: "1 9-||"

Hillary and Jill Stein did one 9-11, as can be easily seen here. NO ONE DENIES THIS.

Hopefully they do not choose to do a second 9-11.
18
Although the statement made by Stein in regards to the senate vote seems wrong, there is some truth to the statement that we are in this current situation because Democrats serve corporate interests.

This goes back to the 1990s, with Clinton triangulating the party to the center by cynically using "welfare reform" to appeal to the Dixiecrats, and jumping on the corporate cash train. This continued during the GW Bush years, voting for the Patriot Act and the Iraq War, while often being fearful to stand up to the Republican bullies. Don't forget, Obama failed to prosecute both Wall Street and Bush Administration War criminals. In the early part of his term, when he had majorities in both the house and senate, he was tepid in his policies. Behind the scenes, he did everything in his power to keep the "public option" out of his healthcare reform. All of these things he let slide, including the sophisticated surveillance state, is now at the disposal of President Trump.

So while it's easy to bash and red bait people like Stein, Democrats are still failing to do any real soul searching about how and why we are in this horrible predicament.
19
Getting anything good (or even halfway decent) out of the Democrats requires constant pressure from the left. Here's hoping that Jill Stein and many, many others never let up.
20
@13: So sorry to have upset you.
21
#8 - Alex Jones called. He said, "Cool story, bro."
22
Darn Senate Dems. Should have voted twice.
23
I'm with Dan on this one. This Stein tweet is beyond gratuitous. I hadn't really considered seriously that she was an intentional right wing tool before, but ...
24
@20: It really goes beyond credulity. A one-time head of the KGB and dictator doesn't know who he is going to be sat next to?

Again, trolling or stupid.
25
@15: / @19: "Getting anything good (or even halfway decent) out of the Democrats requires constant pressure from the left. Here's hoping that Jill Stein and many, many others never let up"

They don't want better for themselves, the Dems, or America, they solely want the Dems to lose.

And ther rhetoric shows. Not that they have any clue of policy beyond a few shallow mission statements.
26
Riiiight, and your strategy of insulting every Midwestern voter you need to vote for the Democrat worked so well that you successfully stopped Trump's election, didn't you Dan?

Clearly, your political acumen is so much better than Stein's. Despite the fact that Clinton had spent twice as much as Trump, and hundreds of times what Stein spent, you couldn't stop the least popular candidate in American history.

And despite this, there's not a shred of introspection in you. You completely avoid asking yourself "Where did WE fuck up?" To you, its everyone else's fault. It's Bernie's fault. It's Sawant's fault. It's Stein's fault. Because it couldn't be YOUR fault, could it?

You know her you fucked up, Dan? You fucked up when you refused to listen to the people who you needed to vote for your candidate. Midwesterners opposed to free trade were never seen by you or your compatriots as people with a legitimate grievance. Just like you did when you grew up in Chicago, you looked down on those pathetic rurals as if they weren't even human.

And with all your sneering, all your derision, you alienated anyone who might have otherwise been moved by a plea for their vote.

In an electoral college system, which isnt going away anytime soon, you need those rurals. It doesn't matter if you win 3 million votes more, if you just stick to the coasts, you're fucked. And you know who fucked you over? It wasn't ill Stein. It was you. You fucked yourself.

Here's a piece of advice. Instead of whining about someone who carried less than 1% of the vote, start looking inward. Ask yourself what you can do to win back the House and Senate in 2018.

Or go extinct.
27
Is Rightwing a word? Shouldn't it be Right-wing? Hire an editor!
28
At this point, the only place is see Jill Stein mentioned is in "The Stranger."
29
Dan Savage is just a tool.
30
"Just this griping, bullshitty, grandstanding, fault-finding, purity-testing, holier than thou-ing, that we are all subjected to every four fucking years by the Green Party candidate." Love it. Substitute 'Liberals-In-General' for "Green Party" and you'll get why we Trumpers find this stuff such a hoot. You guys are cute when you're mad!
32
@24: Actually, we're not privy to the exact seating plans. It's only speculation on my part and yours.

33
@15 and others...

Warning! This is a rant!

Ever since Pres. Bill Clinton's nearly sole focus on the middle class, the Dems have essentially and progressively abandoned the unemployed, the poor, and working poor in their campaigns and promised legislation. That the Dems have adopted, without much of a fight, the GOP's corporate shilling was probably inevitable. That our Congressional Reps and Senators must spend several hours every day on the phone drumming up donations doesn't help. The fact that the GOP courted the evangelical right and other Christian conservatives and successfully convinced them that the GOP represented their moral, social, and economic insterests was a coup of epic proportions. That our current POTUS has taken steps to gut the Johnson Amendment, which "prevents tax-exempt organizations from engaging in political activities" is dangerous and not surprising. The election of 2016 should go down in history as the "Year the voters cut off their collective nose despite their collective face."

The GOP have had, for nearly a half a century, a better political machine than the Dems and the cohesiveness to change how the business of politics is conducted. Ever wonder why GOP politicians parrot each other to the press? Congressional GOP members have to sign a loyalty oath to the party. The GOP has partnered with corporate America as well as wealthy private citizens to legislate on behalf of those two main constituencies. Since campaign fundraising is a dominant part of the job, politicians have become beholding to their corporate and wealthy donors and are addicted to the largess of these two donor groups. The Dems "came late to the party" but don't have a cohesive backing or the will to adapt to or change the what has become the economic-political culture.

*we need campaign finance reform "with teeth" that prevents our elected officials from being in the pocket of their corporate and big money donors.

*we need a post-political-office blackout period in which our former elected officials may not take jobs as lobbyists.

*We need congressional term limits. Period.

*We need the Dems and Independent voters to show up and vote in their local, state, and Congressional elections.

*We need civics to be taught, without political bias, as a national standard, in public schools (oops, Betty DeVos might not like that) from at least 3rd grade.

*we need the Constitution of the United States to be taught, without political bias, to middle and high schools students.

*we need national election laws that protect our right and access to vote, including but not limited to reinstating the franchise for felons who have done their time (and who had not been previously found guilty of treason), eliminating gerrymandering, standardized voting machines that do have a verifiable paper backup system, easy access to and increased numbers of voting sites, expanded early voting, and standardized requirements for voter verification that do not discriminate against the elderly or minorities.

* we need added to the short job requirement list for POTUS/VPOTUS the release of X# of years of personal and corporate federal and state tax returns, a minimum standard of business practices, a mental health screening (with certain diagnoses that would disqualify the potential candidate), and the ability to pass a basic civics test that shows an understanding of what is legal and how the government works.

*we need the voters to get on board with voting, calling, and emailing our elected officials to let them know that the environment, alternate jobs training programs for those who have lost their jobs, protections for the poor, immigrants, women, LGBTQ, and other minorities are priorities for us. We also must tell them that they work for us and, if they don't do their jobs, they will get a "pink slip."

*we also need to teach our kids that yes they are special, especially to their parents, but no more special than any other person or group in this country. Just because you previously enjoyed a perceived higher status than other people or groups doesn't mean it should have been that way. What ever gender/gender identity, race, economic or social class with which you identify, you and your status must never supersede the rights of others.

34
@26: "And with all your sneering, all your derision"

You appear to be talking to yourself here.
36
@32: It's not a charity ball for dowagers, it's an event for patrons and specific invited guests of one of the most powerful control freaks and intelligence personnel in the world.

Placement with world leaders is specifically based on granted interaction and what is to be given and received.
37
Dan Savage and his minions at the Stranger are corporatist Democrat tools.
38
@26 - I know this is weird, but columnists can't decide to change the nominee of the Democratic party to the one that you like the best. I guess you would rather that Dan decide to throw out the millions more votes that Hillary got and appoint Bernie as the nominee, but the candidates were the candidates. If Dan's "derision" caused people to vote for an unelectable fraud, thereby giving us four years of this maniac, then they are even dumber than they would be if they did it because they "are against free trade". Or, as the Stein voter from Ohio that I know stated when I asked how he knew Hillary was so bad if Obama, Sanders, and Warren endorsed her, "I guess you're just more comfortable with power-grubbing than I am." What a fucking juvenile idiot. A few thousand people voted their "conscience" and knowingly helped to destroy thousands if not millions of people's lives because they "knew better". They should be ignored. As should you.
39
So, her tweet (assuming it's real) is asinine. The rest of the stuff in this story approaches that same descriptor, but of the writer, not of Stein. For example....using a picture (from 2015) of her at a table with Putin as "proof" of something. You can find photos of pretty much all presidential contenders (and presidents) with assorted dictators, which is a far cry from being an endorsement of said leaders. Saying that Stein "backed Trump" goes beyond idiotic. So, anyone who finds anything objectionable about Clinton "backed" Trump? Have you heard Stein say "nice things" about Putin? I looked and found nothing that fits that description, other than a few "some believe" sort of attacks. So, by all means criticize her for soundling like an idiot about DeVos' confirmation, but how about restricting comments to the truth, Dan Savage?
40
@38,

Oh. I'm sorry, I hadn't realized you were so successful in electing President Hillary Clinton. Thank you for all you did to keep Donald Trump out of the Whiote House. You clearly did such an excellent job.

Allow me to congratulate you on your "victory".

Now, all bullshit aside, you know who won the Midwest states needed to win the general election? Bernie. And sure, she dominated the nominating process for a primary that in no way mirrors the general election. Which is why you fucking LOST in the general.

Hillary Clinton is a right-wing tool. As evidenced by her efforts to successfully elect the most right wing POTUS int he history of the Republic. And all of you who refused to listen to the rural voters you needed the votes from to win (including Dan Savage) are to blame. Not Jill Stein. You.
41
@33 No, congressional term limits is a horribly stupid idea.

It doesn't get you better congress members, it gets you inexperienced congress members who don't know how to read and write their own legislation (so they're more beholden to unelected staffers and lobbyists who are perfectly willing to provide some pre-written material). And it throws out the good legislators just as much as the bad (perhaps even more).

What part of the lesson of 2016 is that term limits are a good idea? If not for term limits, we might have President Obama right now.
42
@40 Bernie did not win Pennsylvania or Ohio. And the notion that his narrow victory over Clinton in Michigan proves he would win it in the general seems a bit pull-out-of-your-ass. You need PA as well for your argument to work.

You know where Bernie didn't win? Virginia, which was also a must-win state. And he lost it by a bigger margin than Clinton lost any Midwestern primary. But I wouldn't state with any certainty that Bernie would've lost VA, because as you say yourself (immediately after citing it as evidence!), primaries don't have a strong connection to the general election performance.

I'm not saying Bernie would've lost. But your argument is stupid and doesn't prove that he would've won.
43
@16 "...did one 9-11". That's the funniest thing I've read all day.
44
Ugh. Here's one Midwesterner who's tired of the Midwestern Trump-voter apologists.

Here's some truth straight from the horse's mouth (rather than the horse's ass who's decided to speak for us): "Rurals", as we've been dubbed, didn't vote for Trump because of his economic policies. Rurals voted for Trump for his social policies. Dan espouses (and probably more!) the diametric opposite position of what Trump voters want socially, so I don't think it's his fault Trump won.

Old wounds, ignorance and fear are why Trump won rurals over. Not because of the economy, which is better here than I remember even back in the 90's. And not because Bernie didn't get on the ticket.
45
My guess is that if the vote had been closer, Murkowski and Collins would not have voted against her because the consequences would have been too great. Don't know why Stein blamed Democrats; without a senate majority, there's no way to block De Vos
46
@45: "Don't know why Stein blamed Democrats; without a senate majority, there's no way to block De Vos"

Because her shtick is to attack the Dems, never the GOP.

@39: "You can find photos of pretty much all presidential contenders (and presidents) with assorted dictators"

http://www.newsweek.com/russian-green-ac…

This was September 2016. You may not know this, but she was and is not President.

"Saying that Stein "backed Trump" goes beyond idiotic."

She's actively tweeted that Trump would be better for the US than Clinton. It's her words, if you're looking to point the idiotic finger, look at Stein and her stupid enablers.
47
Here's a picture of John Kerry having dinner with Bashar Al-Assad.

THE IMPLICATIONS ARE CLEAR!

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/arch…
48
@41 "@33 No, congressional term limits is a horribly stupid idea."

I didn't state what those term limits should be. If two terms is the limit for POTUS and we have only three constitutional requirements for that job, we certainly can impose an as yet undetermined limit on the number of terms (consecutive or otherwise) any elected official can serve. Term limits + a blackout period after leaving office when the former congressperson cannot take a position as a lobbyist might help to prevent our Congress from being used as a stepping stone into the pockets of corporations and for personal economic benefit.

And BTW, another four years of Obama as POTUS wouldn't be so bad but I am sure you made that statement to egg me on and so you could rail against that pipe dream.
49
RE: @48

"Might help to prevent our Congress from being used as a stepping stone into the posckets of corporations" ^(if they aren't already in their pockets)^ "and for personal economic benefit."

50
I agree with #26
Instead of whining about Jill Stein and wishing we had four more years of neo-liberal Republicrat H. Clinton, do something practical to resist Trump. Join with 350 Seattle or the NW Immigrant Rights group or the Neighborhood Action Coalition or Indivisible to prevent the unfolding fascist coup. Shut up up already about Stein and the Democrats and how Hilary should have won. Nobody cares.
51
Dan, Dan, Dan,
You're falling into the Republican trap. Stein isn't responsible for the Trump win by any stretch of the imagination. All of us right now who oppose the Trump/Bannon/Ryan agenda need to figure out how to work together and have discussions or disagreements about strategy and tactics without making permanent enemies of each other. Because the real "malignant bullshit" is coming from that regime, not the little old Greens. I agree that we need to work locally to elect more progressive candidates. I don't care whether their party labels are Democrat or something else (in some communities alternative parties actually do win local races).
52
@ 50 - "Nobody cares"

So how do these threads get so many comments, then?
53
I understand Democrats are angry. Their losses are huge. It is a party that has lost it's leadership: Reid's retired, Obama is out, Hillary is never going to be President, and the Debbie W S is out of the DNC. Both houses lost. Governorships and state legislatures, too. The longer the party blames everyone but themselves the longer it will take to rebuild the party.

Third parties do not owe our votes to the Democratic Party and we are not required to save a Democratic candidate who can't seem to win without us, but who is awful to us as this article is. You want us? Win us. Or get out of the way.
54
Wandering stars wins.
55
I saw a response to this Stein tweet: "Shut up, Tofu Palin."
56
Pffft, is Dan Savage dating John Podesta these days? He's repeating old anti-Stein slanders, not even new, like a parrot yapping what its master told it to repeat. Go to an island and do psylocybin with a band of gypsies for a few days before you start yapping political talking points again, fading propagandist. Enjoy your dowfall while you're not at it. ;)
57
@38 - "Hillary Clinton is a right-wing tool. As evidenced by her efforts to successfully elect the most right wing POTUS int he history of the Republic." Ah, you are a troll. Now I see why you are a fan of Stein's.
58
If Stein's a right wing tool she's been in deep cover for a long fucking time: http://popcrush.com/jill-stein-band-some…
59
The Green Party is funded by Republicans. We've known this since Nader. Why do people keep falling for their horsesh*t? They only exist to throw elections.
60
This is such a petty ridiculous take. I'm constantly surprised at Dan's left-punching proclivities. His political thinking is shallowly conventional and trite. Up is down, right is left, Stein is right? Dan is captive and collaborator of the corporate degeneracy that has warped the Democratic Party and turned into a parody of itself.
61
I love all the Stein supporters here saying Dan needs to avoid "infighting." Jill Stein is the one who attacked "corporate Dems" for failing to vote against DeVos when literally every Dem voted against DeVos.
62
Wow, Jill Stein got 1% of the vote. Yeah, that was *so* damaging! Much worse than Comey, or even Gary Johnson, who got 5% of the vote. Yep, Dan, you really nailed the horrible threat to America. In fact, we can forget about the 24% of the population who voted for tRump, or the 46% who chose not to vote at all. Those are just distractions. It's really Jill Stein, the evil mastermind behind it all!

In upcoming articles by Dan: Why Brazil Started WWII, How the Use of Food Dye Causes Global Warming, and The Real Cause of the Great Depression: Sears & Roebuck.
63
You describe Jill Stein as pretty much "destroying" Clinton's chances at becoming the POTUS and facilitating the Trump's accession to the presidency. As you stated in your blog yesterday: "Jill Stein is a Right Wing tool". My humble opinion regarding those who share your perspective on this matter is; keep blaming the one that got a negligible percentage of votes on November 8th, 2016, rather than facing the painful reality articulated in this article by Glenn Greenwald (https://theintercept.com/2017/02/09/tom-…). If this foolish and misguided denial of the dire need for true revamping of the democratic party continues, do not be surprised if the downward spiral continues to our own demise. A big part of being an adult is to accept painful truths and to have the courage to change things without engaging in this unproductive childish whining behavior: "she did it, not us".
64
LOL, oh Dan- shes just like you. Oh sure, the nazi-like tactics may be the same and just different ends of the spectrum, but lets face it "politics and strange bedfellows" are to political theatre as just peanut butter and jelly and "rich white homos" to Dan Savage commentaries. Funny how you, of all people, miss the connection that the rest of us clearly see.
65
Stein knows she'll never peel away anti-abortion, anti-LGBT, 'social values'-leaning conservatives from the GOP. So instead, she tries to convince strong environmentalists, anti-income inequality and anti-foreign interventionists that the Democrats are just as bad, or worse, than the GOP on all those issues... so they shouldn't vote Democratic.

Which is why Stein mostly gives the GOP a pass and tells Trump-tastic lies about the Ds: "Hillary Clinton's foreign policy is much scarier than Donald Trump's" Oct/16, "Trump will have a lot of trouble moving things through Congress, Hillary Clinton, OTOH, won't… Hillary has the potential to do a whole lot more damage" Sep/16 http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/pol…
66
As if Savage (and other millionaire media gatekeepers) shilling for corporatist New Democrats didn't play a significant part in electing Trump and losing all control over the federal government and most state assemblies. Once again Dan Savage is taking the pro-establishment side in the fight for control of the Democratic party by pretending the Greens actually mattered compared to the millions who couldn't be bothered voting for his dismal candidate.
67
@56 "He's repeating old anti-Stein slanders, not even new, like a parrot yapping what its master told it to repeat."

Nah, There are plenty of new batshit insanity from Dr. Jill Stein not to delve on her past batshit insanity.. Dr. Stein has stated some crap that as cagey and pandering to her base as many politicians, from immunizations to wifi.. Those are not defamatory, they are actual statement written or said by Dr. Stein.
68
@67 Far from me to defend Stein on everything (like her sitting through a luncheon along with Putin for example) but to claim she made anti-vaccination statements is clearly defamatory. You should be ashamed of yourself for regurgitating that tired clintonite smear for the umpteenth time.
69
Yeah, not absolute bollocks from Hillary sheep per usual. Democrats have sold out. How many have approved some of his appointees? Warren has on some. Cory Booker and 12 others voted against Bernie's Canada bill. And how long did it take some of them to get behind lgbt rights? Hillary only started this decade. The DNC is corrupt, and the majority in the party are wall street puppets. Glob forbid she call them out on it. Because we all know the Republicans are terrible already. Oh, here's an irrelevant photo to make you get emotional because I have nothing logical or rational to say. Right, RT is owned by Putin. Just like snopes is owned by Canada and Al Jazerra is an Islamic thing. She didn't back Trump, she ran against him. Your savior Hillary did that. Hillary is a terrible person. That's a fact. When the country is being choked by special interest groups, and the two party, how can they? The media gives zero coverage to them. Not how voting works. Hillary got 2.9 more than Trump and still lost. Blame non-voters and the fact Hillary ran a terrible campaign. Update: Bull.
70
@68 " but to claim she made anti-vaccination statements is clearly defamatory.

She has made anti vaccine statements, like this...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post…

"There were concerns among physicians about what the vaccination schedule meant, the toxic substances like mercury which used to be rampant in vaccines. There were real questions that needed to be addressed. I think some of them at least have been addressed. I don’t know if all of them have been addressed."

There isn't "rampant concern", and the only people concerned are the paranoid left, and couple Naturopathic Doctors who make a living feeding on this paranoia.. Anyone with a partial IQ can read studies showing that Mercury Thimerosal is safe as a preservative for vaccines..

https://twitter.com/drJoshS/status/75911…

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressive…

Dr. Stein panders to her base like any politician. Her base is as paranoid and rabid as Trump's base. Much like her licking the toes of anyone who believes in quackery like homeopathy..

I await Dr. Stein's defamation suit against me..

71
Politics is this thing where everyone claims to have all the moral authority and maturity in the universe. They then resort to slagging each other like high schoolers, and then blaming their losses on everyone other than themselves.

If you had any real maturity or moral authority, your first question would never be "What did THEY do wrong?" It would be "What did I do wrong?"
72
@70 This is all you have got for claiming she is anti-vaccination. Pathetic.
73
@44 It really depends on where you are. I know some "rural" Michigan types who are struggling. Many formerly not-impoverished-but-not-wealthy suburbs and exurbs have seen a decrease in their quality of life.

These are the types of Midwestern voters who resent Bill and NAFTA. And they just plum didn't show up.

These voters didn't believe a word coming out of Hillary's mouth and they figured Hillary would just sell them down the river if the opportunity presented itself. She didn't help matters by barely mentioning Flint's water problem after the Michigan primary, and releasing the most mealymouthed statement on the Dakota Pipeline in the October scuffle (the one where she told protesters to make their case in Free Speech Zones where they could be safe and out of the way of contractors).

Some people went over to Stein, but that number was insignificant. Most chose not to vote for president. And a couple went to Trump.

There are many Trump voters who voted for social issues (racist or sexist religious belief structures, for instance). Maybe even the majority. But, I'd argue, that a not insignificant number voted against Hillary Clinton and a not insignificant number voted because of the economy.
74
@72

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soLYq1sF…
http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/0…

Dr. Stein acts like any good politician, she has stated ambiguous cagey statements. She also stated the same "I am pro vaccine" statements followed by the paranoia and fears of the looney anti vax crowd. All her arguments are pure quackery, like corporate control of FDA and the vaccine process..

Face it, she is sucking up to her paranoid base...
75
@74 The same strawmen attacks don't improve you case. Especially since despite your hippy-punching claims, regulatory capture is NOT a conspiracy theory:

Corporate Capture of the Rulemaking Process Elizabeth Warren | Jun 14, 2016
76
@75 "The same strawmen attacks don't improve you case. "

Dr. Stein ran on anti Science platform. She pandered to those in Alternative Medicine. I gave examples of her anti vaccine rhetoric, even while she is pleading she isn't anti vaccine..

The only thing you posted had nothing to do with FDA regulation on drugs or vaccines, just on Food Safety, so tell me who is using fallacious arguments?
77
The Green Party of Russia has condemned Stein for her coziness with Putin and begged the US Greens not to nominate her. It is absolutely not a coincidence that she sides with Trump on every pro-Putin thing he does.

I studied her platform carefully during the campaign. A large number of the things I liked didn't seem achieveable. But a distressing amount of it was either batshit crazy or grossly irresponsible and dangerous. For example, she listed the number of foreign military bases she wanted to close, which I looked up and it happens to be ALL of them. (In re-reading her platform just now, she was more explicit than I remembered about indeed planning to close every single foreign base.) I am very much NOT a hawk, but even I can see what a terrible idea that would be. Might as well abolish the UN and turn over Europe to Putin. Oh, wait, maybe that wasn't just naïveté on her part.

Given Russia's history (particularly Putin's) with kompromat, it's hard not to speculate what Russia may have found out about her during her stay, or through other means before her visit, and what private discussions she had with them. While it's conceivable (barely) that it's innocent, all of her actions suggest she's as much pro-Putin as Trump is. Every mention of Russia in her platform is positive.

Oh, and what's NOT conceivable is that she was coincidentally seated at the same table as Putin. This was an event thrown by Putin's personal propaganda outlet. You better believe Putin himself had a hundred percent control over who sat at his table.
78
@76 criticizing the regulatory environment and its control by corporations isn't equivalent to making anti-vaccination statements no matter how many times you or establishment technocrats desperately want to smear Stein with it

You asserted that Stein and her followers were "paranoid" (cue for conspiracy theorists), apparently for invoking regulatory capture at the FDA. I showed that according to Elizabeth Warren, regulatory capture is as common as apple pie, which contradicts your blind faith in the FDA being magically above regulatory capture ( I mean beside all the circumstantial evidence they are doing exactly what industry want them to do)
79
"which contradicts your blind faith in the FDA being magically above regulatory capture ( I mean beside all the circumstantial evidence they are doing exactly what industry want them to do)"

hmmm about those "Strawmen arguments" you are so sensitive about?

I don't have "blind faith" in the FDA, given it is a huge regulatory agency that can succumb to huge amount of political pressure..

I do know that immunizations and the Advisory Board on Immunizations are made up of both Pediatric specialists and Public Health Specialists, as I pointed out in this article...

http://scienceblogs.com/insolence/2016/0

Here is the list of the actual FDA Vaccine Advisory Board, so who do you object to? Who is in the pocket of the Pharmaceuticals?

http://www.fda.gov/AdvisoryCommittees/Co…

Steins followers believed in conspiracy theories, don't trust the status quo, and are skeptical of science based medicine and science in general. Dr. Stein did the voting recount in three states mainly on conspiratorial grounds..

Get with the program, Sparky.. Tell me who on the FDA Vaccine advisory board is in cahoots with Big Pharma, and which one has no qualifications to be on the board?
80
@79: These dipshits are happier with Stein and Trump deregulating the FDA and crystal magick rather than science based medicine.
81
@68: "to claim she made anti-vaccination statements is clearly defamatory. You should be ashamed of yoursel"

Go fuck yourself, seriously. The words posted by Stein to her official twitter weren't posted by Hillary.
82
@79 "I don't have "blind faith" in the FDA, given it is a huge regulatory agency that can succumb to huge amount of political pressure."

In other words, you want to have it both ways. On the one hand, you label people leery of the fda being independent from industry as being conspiracy theorists even though the revolving door is pervasive and leaves no doubt about how close they are to one another. And on the other hand, you attempt to claim not being blindly trustful of the agency. Nice spin but to tell you the truth, your rhetoric isn't consistent.

"Stein did the voting recount in three states mainly on conspiratorial grounds"

The above is blatantly false. Computer science experts asked the Clinton campaign to demand a recount. When Clinton refused to secure the vote, Stein stepped in: Look at the Ballots. Stein pursuing a recount puts your disgusting personal attacks against her in proper perspective.

83
More evidence that Jill Stein voters are the only 1% that liberals are willing to stand up to.
84
I have a hard time taking these words seriously from a man who once advocated the drawing of a Green Party U.S. Senate candidate for having the audacity to run in a free and fair election (that's what we call them, at least).

And Jill Stein is right, by the way. If not for the dead weight at the top of the ticket, decent candidates like Jason Kander and Russ Feingold might've actually won their elections. There was no reason the Democrats couldn't have taken back the Senate in 2016. It was entirely due to incompetence and their insistence on nominating Clinton, Inc. Worse was their and the media's hubris, which allowed the GOP to advocate for their candidates as a check on the "inevitable" Clinton Presidency.

They couldn't even beat Little Marco and his 30% approval rating because they ran a lying corporatist sleazeball who got knocked out of the race by the first negative ad.

So yeah, when you lose elections, it's your own damn fault. When a few million people who voted for your party last time simply don't show up, or vote for a clinically insane groper, it's your own damn fault. Jill Stein is nuts and frequently wrong, but not about this.
85
All you fucking assholes - including Dan Savage the Emotionally Disordered One - who are blaming Jill Stein and those of Us who 'voted' for her this past November , need to go to Hell WITH THE TRUMPSTERS. --- http://jampac.us & https://www.blackboxvoting.org
86
Facts: The primaries were NOT like the general election: You Hillbots COULDN'T stop ENOUGH No Party Preferenceers - such as Myself - from voting . . . . -- https://www.gregpalast.com . ;D
87
Hey! Dan! The D.N.C. is STILL being sued by more than one group of voting-rights group . . . .
88
Dan, you ignorant slut. While you obsess on Jill Stein (still), and a political party with, as you rightly point out, no real power, the latest Gallup poll shows the Democratic Party has lost about 15 million people since October, dropping from 31% to 25% of voters. The GOP has gained a point, from 27-28%, and independents have gone from 40-44%. Aside from a few deep blue urban counties with a high concentration of well-heeled neoliberals like yourself, there's not much of a constituency for a "left" party that's owned by Wall Street and corporate donors. And now, because of the infernal internet machine, they can't hide it anymore, hence their particularly poor rating among millennials. Folks like you can keep on clutching your pearls every time Jill Stein farts, but that isn't doing anything to fix the real problem. Its hard to inspire outrage against Trump's Goldman Sacks cabinet, when faux liberals like you said nothing about Obama's Citibank chosen cabinet, which was also stacked with Goldman alums. The only people who don't see that contradiction, are the people who still get their news from hacks like you and the embarrassment to journalism that is MSNBC. But that's a dying breed. Literally. People under 45 are laughing at you, Dan. Remember Morton Downey, Jr.? He ended his career ranting in tents at county fairs. I hope you like the smell of cow dung Dan, because in ten years, that's where you'll be. Maybe you and Maddow can work out a magic show. They like magic shows at those things. Start practicing.
89
"I have a hard time taking these words seriously from a man who once advocated the drawing of a Green Party U.S. Senate candidate for having the audacity to run in a free and fair election (that's what we call them, at least)."

I think defeating a Senator in the Republican Leadership, who had some of the scariest views out there plus compared homosexuality to pedophilia and bestiality has to be defeated at all cost. If Rick Santorum won in 2006, he was planning to run for President in 2008. His views on social issues and environmental issues were scary.

When a candidate runs and the best projections are they will get about 1-2% of the vote, it becomes a vanity campaign.

I am a registered Green Party member, I have been for years, I am about to change, because I didn't realize how batshit insane and idiotic most Green Party members in the US are coming across.

I believe in what the Green Party has done in many European Countries. I don't believe in whining to advice columnist on how the party self defeats themselves, and wants to draw voters from the Democratic Party. The Green Party should be about strong comprehensive ideas that should shape our future.. It shouldn't about fallacious arguments, whining, and pandering to the batshit insane, who think Wifi causes cancer, 9-11 was an inside job, and vaccines are not safe, because we can't trust the FDA. It should be about combatting AGW, clean water, protecting the environment and bio regions, sane transportation plans, sensible education, healthier Americans.

The people whining about what Dan said during the 2006 Pennsylvania Senate Race, remind me of the same dumbasses and batshit insane people like Andrew Breitbart, who complained about Dan voting in the Iowa Caucus. They can't let things go, besides we have bigger problems now.

Stop acting like shrews, stoping eating those closest around you, and work constructively to make a better America.
90
Dan is right. Those who say it's over are wrong. The Trump'nStein monster is not dead. After Jill Stein got more votes than the margin of difference in the 3 key states that decided the election, she continued her long series of rants praising Trump. I hope the public finds out how much Russia paid her for her lies to hand the nation to Trump and Putin. And this will replay in 2018 and 2020.
91
Dan Savage is the biggest TOOL, so fuck you and all your adolescent bullshit rant here little Danny!
93
Dan's a fool, tool and $hillary SUCKS! https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4624521/j…
94
@78: Stein claimed that the jury was still out on the safety of vaccines, despite the overwhelming body of evidence showing that serious complications are rare as hens' teeth. When you throw out all that is known because of MUH REGULATORY CAPTURR, you're not a free thinker but rather a denier.
It's no different from the nutbars who insist that we can't be sure that human activity is causing the Earth to warm, because after all NOAA and the EPA and the UN are super biased and part of the conspiracy.
95
Fake news. Sick of you fake ass so-called journalists bashing third parties when the system is rigged against them. Every single word is a lie. Wake up sheeple!!!!!

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