Holy shit OP. Know that you're not the one who is crazy, your partner is. Look out for yourself and DTMFA.
get out
get out
get out
get out
get out
Abortion if she's not against it was my thought, too. But she should save all the documentation she has about what this guy wants--emails, texts, etc., especially if she decides against an abortion and has a custody or visitation battle on her hands.

In any case, leave him. Please.
Abortion if she's not against it was my thought, too. But she should save all the documentation she has about what this guy wants--emails, texts, etc., especially if she decides against an abortion and has a custody or visitation battle on her hands.

In any case, leave him. Please.
OP, run as far and as fast as you can. If you keep the baby, be sure to do everything possible to minimize his custody rights.

Thanks Dan. Now I'm wondering what Jesus tastes like.
I've seen a lot of letters come in to Dan that infuriated or shocked me, but never, and I mean never, have I seen one that set off quite so many alarms all at once.

Dan is spot-on. This is a bait and switch. He was sweet for a while, then used the pregnancy to trap you. Now he's doing the classic abuser tactic of escalating commitment rapidly, trying to entangle finances and living space and suddenly whipping out terms he denied were part of the deal.

He's trying to make it hard for you to leave. And yes, if he's trying to trap you this hard, this is only the beginning. A Footlocker of other shoes are gonna drop, indeed.

Frankly, yes, get an abortion. You do not want a legal link between you and this guy. The only legal connection you want with someone like this is a restraining order.

Ugh. Yeah, I'm sorry FSA, but things have gone awry. You're not crazy. Just remember you get to decide who you live with, do business with, and have a family with. This guy does not seem like someone even to do the former with. As for the latter, seems painful but doable (much of pregnancy falls under that category though.) Maybe document this situation carefully in case you end up needing a lawyer. Good luck.
If you decide to have the baby, talk to a lawyer specializing in family law. Make sure you do nothing that would strengthen your boyfriend's rights in a custody situation and undermine your own (such as, God forbid, marrying the guy).
Abortion was my first thought, too, if it's something she would consider. Either way, she should document everything he's written--texts, emails, etc.--especially if she decides to have the child and has to deal with custody and visitation issues.
Sorry for the triple posts. Slog doesn't seem to want to publish promptly.

Anyway, I wonder about those two friends, too. I'm kind of skeptical that they would really want to be involved to the degree that the LW's impregnator seems to want. He seems like a special snowflake.
run, run run run run RUN!!! far away from this psycho.

And Dan is right - if you choose to keep this kid you will have to be involved on some level with this guy for 18 years. Given what you say in the letter about his behavior now, imagine what lengths he'll go to to legally keep you near, and in line, should you bear this child.


7 comments and I only see one. Curiouser and curiouser.

While I generally frown on revenge-abortion or regret-abortion (I'm a little conservative that way), in this case it's pretty much your only option. He changed the rules, in such a WTF way, that he negated the right to be a father to your children. Also, chest-tightening stress is not good for you, nor good for your pregnancy. His disregard for you is frightening.

I told him that before I make any decisions like that I'd need to get to know them first. He got really emotional and told me that if I didn't completely embrace their presence in my life then I don't love him. He basically said that they are his family and that if I'm not into sharing time and space with them in the capacities he's suggested then we won't be spending any time with them until I accept what he wants. He said that I was insulting him and them by needing to suss things out for myself because their relationship was special and that I should just trust that.

I think that this is f#@&ing crazy talk, Dan.

Holy neon red flags, Batman! Run, FSA; run fast and run far. That is indeed batshit fucking crazy talk. Demanding that partners have close relationships with long-standing family members that they have actually met and interacted with enough to know them isn't actually okay, because you can't force people to like each other (basic politeness is all that can be reasonably expected, though one can of course hope for better); this is so far beyond the pale that it might as well be on the moon. Like Dan, I strongly recommend ending this particular pregnancy; even if you are interested in procreating on your own, you can use a sperm donor who isn't a terrifyingly manipulative asshole to whom you will inevitably be linked in some capacity. Of course, it's your body and your call, but a deceptive, manipulative jerk is not a good potential coparent, even an occasional one.
Run away from this guy's machinations as fast as you can. There is a distinct possibility that he would try to obtain parental rights, whether you like it or not and whether you keep the baby or decide to place the child in an adoptive home. In either case, seek an attorney in family law waaaaaaaay in advance to protect you and your child.

Also note, he sounds like the type to change his attitude and approach. Again. Be wary. As Dan says, you don't know him well or for very long.
FSA, your BF waited six months to even mention a couple who he first described as "friends" who he saw "from time to time," but whom he later "told [you] were actually his two closest friends" and that "their relationship was special," and indeed "they are his family." And now demands: (1) "they play a major role in your baby's life," (2) "wants us to start a business together," and (3) "buy a home together."

FSA, your BF is not the person he led you to believe. He asks for your trust, after being entirely dishonest about the relationship he wanted, and his lists of demands are unlikely to have been exhausted. You will soon find yourself under pressure to enter a quad relationship with this other couple who you've only met a few times. End the relationship now, and unless you can imagine being a co-parent with this triad (and whoever else joins them), have an abortion.

This is one of those letters where I started muttering DTMFA under my breath half way through.

LW - the only thing I'd add to Dan's excellent advice is to please think about a safety plan before you dump this guy (and please dump him). He may not become physically abusive, maybe he's just a non-violent manipulative jerk, but he's waving some big red flags there and I hope you make sure you're not alone with him during or after the breakup.

Slog's commenting is fucked up. Try clicking on the number of the most recent post you see and maybe the rest will pop up upon the refresh.
YAY! I love it when I can call the DTMFA before I read Dan's response!
FSA: What everyone said!

SLOG administrators: Why did the post indicate 14 comments but only showed me 9? Is it because SLOGgers are unfriending me?
OP get as far away as possible. Also read In Sheep's Clothing, by Dr. George Simon.
@11: "Anyway, I wonder about those two friends, too. I'm kind of skeptical that they would really want to be involved to the degree that the LW's impregnator seems to want. He seems like a special snowflake"

If they're a (surprise!) triad, I see no reason to assume that they're any was fucked up than him.
Yes to the abortion, or the single parent, the documentation, the lawyer, and the RUN!

Now allow me to rewrite the story in my head for a minute. I'm asking myself how I'd feel if Boyfriend had said: The pregnancy is unplanned but joyful. Let's get married. Thing is, I'm close with my family and always wanted to live in a multi-generational home. You'll love my parents as soon as you meet them. My mother will be a great help with the baby. I'll be going in to business with my father. This will be nice.

I can sort of see that. It's old fashioned, but it could work.

What I can't see is: Move in with my parents, but you don't get to meet and get to know them first. You have to accept my vision for the future, and you get no say in any other way to run your life. It's this or nothing.

(I have no problem with an abortion, but if you do, there is an alternative to having the baby and raising him/her on your own. There's closed adoption and open adoption.)

Xiao is right on. I have a weird sense that the BF is bipolar or has some other type of behavioral mental condition as well. If you weren't pregnant now, would you be comfortable with the idea of making a life/family with the BF in the future, given present conditions?
What the holy fuck. I'd say DTMFA, but "mother fucker" doesn't begin to capture the douchebag insanity at play here.

Run for your fucking life.
This seems like some out-of-nowhere crazy stuff. I have several friends in triads, and one in a triad with a joint kid, but last I checked a triad was generally set up between, ya know, people who wanted to be in the triad.

If she's too confused and entangled with the guy to immediately DTMFA and get an abortion, I would, if I were her, arrange a meet with one of the other couple--probably the girl--and sit down for a frank "wtf, explain to me the nature of this relationship and what *you* really want now" to see if the crazy is all in him or what. But I think it's likely that no matter how the conversation goes, DTMFA is going to be the answer.

Too bad about the pregnancy. But, thank god, it's still legal to abort here. You don't have to tie yourself to crazy if you don't want.
WHY is abortion or keep it the ONLY options here? Why not adoption? I am NOT saying she should not abort, I am absolutely pro-choice, but if she is against abortion, Adoption IS an option too. And she still won't have this asshole--and his entourage--in her life for 18 years!
Guess it's too late to scold about getting pregnant with someone you've only known a year, but hey! All you other girls out there! You don't have to get pregnant in this day and age! Take some precautions for gods' sake! And, LW...I'm with the crowd, run away! As fast as you can. This guy is a manipulative, ultimatum throwing prick. But, abortion might not be your only option if you have reservations about it...providing this asshole is willing to sign away his parental rights, legally and before the pregnancy goes too far – 'cause otherwise you're going to be tied to this dick for the next decade. As the father of two wonderful adopted girls, I can attest that there are a multitude of wonderful parents out here who would die for the chance to adopt your baby. So some good could come out of this mess. But only if asshole boyfriend plays ball, and does it fast (which I'm thinking he might because it would leave him free to fuck his friends to his heart's delight, and that seems to be his #1 priority. Get a lawyer and get it in iron-clad writing. Good luck.
#27 our posts crossed. She can't put the baby up for adoption unless the bio dad signs off on it. (well, she could but that's asking for a whole shitload of trouble down the line.)
I would not only have an abortion, I would move to a new city and probably also change my name--"Sarah Martin" is a good one to totally disappear into unfindability.
There will be other, better options to have a child.
@11: "I'm kind of skeptical that they would really want to be involved to the degree that the LW's impregnator seems to want."

Even if all this isn't true and they don't ALSO want their hands in the family pocketbook (all going into business together) that the boyfriend thinks all this is happening and is demanding for it to occur is enough of a GTFO moment for her, before literally every decision she makes is being out before a couple she's never ever met. Your suspicions pale before every other red flag put up.
What am I missing here? It says on the main page there are 21 comments, but I can only see two?
This letter is serious nightmare fuel. LW, everyone is right. You need to get out and you need to get an abortion. A guy who's sending up this many red flags shouldn't have access to you and he sure as hell shouldn't have access to a child.
#9 beat me to it, but I feel like it needs to be called out. If you decide that you want to have the baby, despite the adjacency to this clusterfuck?


Your boyfriend has already demonstrated that he's not acting in good faith and that he's very good at keeping his actual intentions and plans secret from you. You cannot trust that he will keep any verbal agreement he offers with regards to custody, visitation, and the involvement of his other two lovers. If despite all that you decide that you're keeping the pregnancy, lawyer the fuck up post haste: any deal you make with these idiots, you want in writing.
@ 27 - Because giant red flags. Adoption, like DonnyKlicious said, requires the consent of a guy who has just demonstrated himself to be super controlling and crazy manipulative. He could very easily run out the clock on her until she can't get an abortion and then refuse to sign off on the adoption in order to use the kid against her as leverage.
Why the hell is she getting preggers a year into a relationship. Was it really a "whoops, I'm preggers!"? I want to know more about the type of woman who is all "yay preggers after a year!!"
What a nightmare.
She might also want to check self for STDs.
@18, Thanks. Refreshing the page also (occasionally) works.

I wasn't suggesting that the possibility that the bf is misrepresenting the friends is a mitigating circumstance that should make her consider what he wants. I brought that up to suggest that he may be even more messed up than she thinks.
@11 & 22 I also have a morbid curiosity about whether the couples knows, or even wants to be part of the boyfriend's grand-plan. I'm sincerely hoping, for the sake of my faith in humanity, that they're just as confused and frightened as the LW is.

Sorry LW, ending this pregnancy seems to be your best bet.
@28 & 36 it's entirely possible the dude fucked with her contraception. Not everyone woman can use, or afford, hormonal birth control, or wants an IUD. And considering how manipulative this guy has been it's easy to see him poking holes in condoms and 'forgetting' to use spermicide.
#36 when people feel like they're ready to have children, a year can actually be enough for them to feel comfortable with their current partner. Usually works out rather OK too - given that most people are not as crazy as LW's partner.
I am so pro-abortion that if I ever got pregnant I wouldn't even consider another option. But I don't think it's the right choice for this LW. She's been involved with this guy for only a year; if abortion was an option for her, she'd have considered it as soon as this surprise pregnancy was discovered. She's already talking about "our baby." She's not thinking of this as a group of cells, she's thinking of this as a human being, and pushing her to abort is pretty heartless under those circumstances. I'd advise her to either give the child up for adoption or lawyer up, as it's going to be a long crazy ride with this dude.

Condoms, people. CONDOMS.
Actually, now I am unsure. The timescale here is very short. She "just" found out she's pregnant, and "a few days later" he drops the package deal demand on her. The thing that's changing my mind is that "he was happy about it." If she chooses anything other than abortion, she'll get him trying to block the adoption or stay in her life (with these friends) for the next eighteen years. It IS still just a group of cells; get rid of it now while you still can.

The other option, if she has, like, eight months until the birth, is to take the next one month and actually get to know these friends. If she's confident -- or was, until now -- that he's someone whose judgment she can trust, why not give the friends a chance? Maybe BF is freaked out a bit by the prospect of being a dad and that's why he's handling things so poorly -- but it actually doesn't sound like a terrible setup. (Think, two extra people to help take care of your kid!) Perhaps LW should immerse herself in this friendship and then make her decision.
+1M to Dan's, Dan's Friend's and @1's & @2's response. Get out NOW. Do not have the baby.

Here's why abortion is the right answer: this bf has revealed himself to be a manipulative crazy person. That means you want to shed him. 100% shed him. No lingering attachments, no ongoing link...and a baby - even one you put up for adoption - is potentially a link. Yes, if she's adamantly opposed to abortion - even at this early stage when a medically induced miscarriage is still an option - then she could go off someplace crazy BF couldn't find her, omit his name on the birth certificate and have a blind adoption. But that's a lot on her. She should really just DTMFA and get an abortion. He should go buy a house and start a business with his BFFs/Family, the rashness of which predicts great success and long term stability to me.
BiDan@46 I'd say that given the odds of this relationship (or any relationship), and this triad/friendship (or any triad/friendship lasting for the next twenty-plus years of child-rearing, and given the questionable behavior of BF (hiding this significant triad for a year, throwing ultimatums) the time to get to know everyone is either a year ago, or after the abortion/adoption makes it a moot point. Anyone can be on good behavior for the next month.

And, hedgehog@44, a year might be enough time to make decisions like this (might) depending on a whole host of circumstances, especially age. If you are 35 and have been around the block a few times not 22, if you generally have your shit together in all other aspects, etc...but its still an iffy proposition. Kids are a lifelong commitment. Be damn sure you're doing the right thing before you start down that road.
Get an abortion, and then get far, far away from this dude, then use birth control religiously.
@46: "The thing that's changing my mind is that "he was happy about it."

Same here. It's a very new pregnancy (I think?), and as long as she keeps it she's got a legal tie to someone she should never allow any ties with.

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea to take the time to get to know the friends--the "You must trust me without question while I unilaterally (and totally) rewrite our life plans" move is one of the biggest DTMFA flags I can imagine. Even if his friends were the nicest people imaginable,* he's looking exactly like an abuser. Staying with him would probably be the biggest mistake of her life (or anyone's).

*This seems unlikely.
Props to Dan for not saying "He wants to be poly, so you have to be poly. Only poly people get to have preferences because I hate monogamy."
I have a very vivid imagination. At first I thought, well, he's this dude in a triad that wants to expand but he wants to ease her into the idea. Possible. But he's being way too manipulative and that leads me to a scary idea. Perhaps, a baby is all this triad wanted and could not have themselves? How easy for one of them to form a relationship with another girl, get her pregnant, push her into a living arrangement, "business" (really?) and other things that would tangle her life to the point it would be hard for her to get out? or WORSE, maybe she moves in, has the baby and the couple disappears with it? Even with the best case scenario, this guy is no one to have a baby with. They're not married, which helps some in her rights vs. his, but, yes, if she's very early pregnant and willing, I would counsel having an abortion. It isn't a great solution, but the only one unless she wants to live with the stress of always worrying what this guy is going to do with her baby every time he goes off with it, which he will be able to do with legal visitation. Or, if she can, put up a good fake front and plot carefully to abandon everything and move somewhere else, hoping he won't track her down.
I like @45/BiDanFan's comment about how FSA's attitude toward having "a baby" has shifted to thinking about "our baby," and what that implies about her thinking.

By all means, FSA should contact a lawyer, however, I would point out that getting a lawyer isn't the end of a decision tree, but in so many ways just the start. FSA needs to think about how much fighting for sole custody will cost, and how much in the way of resources she would need to fight her BF (assuming he wants parental rights). Things she might want to know, including what does the legal process entail, how long can each step take, what are BF's rights, can he slow down the process, will I need to hire an expert witness, what are the likely outcomes, etc. If BF wants parental rights to his baby, he may also get a lawyer, and he may have more resources to expend fighting than FSA, and FSA needs to understand that he may be successful in asserting his rights. So if FSA isn't o.k. having a connection with this man into the future, an abortion is the only way to ensure that outcome.

As for those who suggest adoption is an option, that may not be possible if BF seeks to assert his constitutionally protected paternal rights. In many jurisdictions, adoption requires the consent of both parents. To gain his parental rights, including the right to object to adoption, BF would have to establish paternity and demonstrate a commitment to parenting the child. I know that Dan has been down the path of adoption, and I assume he was advised by a competent lawyer, and as a result has an understanding of the adoption process, which may be reason that he didn't propose alternative.
CleoGirl @17 and Fresh @30, yes, I was also worried about his reaction when she tries to walk away. A good book on assessing potential danger is the Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker.

Another possibility is that he isn't happy about the pregnancy and this is a weird con job to persuade her to have an abortion so he's not on the hook for child-support. That doesn't change the advice though.
@46: "The other option, if she has, like, eight months until the birth, is to take the next one month and actually get to know these friends. If she's confident -- or was, until now -- that he's someone whose judgment she can trust, why not give the friends a chance"

Literally zero chance that someone who immediately demands these people rear the child + get into business with ten + buy a house with and live with them all at the same time will turn out well. At the very least she's just been impregnated by a crazyperson and needs to divest from him, let alone the two mystery people.
I mean, as if she's had the option to not "immerse herself". Literally these people will be a part of her life and live with her and she has no say in the matter. Which, again. In isolation these things could be worked out. In total this is DTMFA territory.
Run for your life. This is not hyperbole. Run for your fucking life, because the next step after getting you pregnant* and manipulating you into entangling your living situation and finances with him (and two people you barely even know, which is a whole extra level of clusterfuck) is to make it impossible for you to leave, up to and including isolating you, stealing your documents, and physically abusing you. I mean, the whole thing with the friends he has a weird ambiguous relationship with (and has pretty obviously lied to you about) and the way he wants to make them deeply involved in your lives without prior negotiation and is totally opposed to you getting to know them on your own terms - all of that is really fucked up and totally unacceptable behavior, obviously. But I think it's also a red herring. I think all you really need to know is that as soon as he found out you were pregnant your boyfriend tried to radically alter the terms of your relationship, in a way that included making massive, very difficult to untangle financial commitments with him, and when you tried to talk to him about it he refused to compromise or negotiate with you and was really cruelly manipulative at the same time. This is page one from the domestic abuser's handbook. Don't stick around to find out what's on page two.

*given how incredibly manipulative and pushy this guy is, I think the odds are very, very good that this pregnancy was deliberate on his end.

What has Dan ever said in the past to lead you to believe that that would be something he'd need props for not saying? Or course he's not going to say that.

I'd like to repeat, if LW has any thoughts about trying to get to know these people before deciding whether to abort - "Anybody can be nice for a month".
If she's confident -- or was, until now -- that he's someone whose judgment she can trust, why not give the friends a chance?

Because the friends aren't the issue--he is. He's planning out get entire life for her, making massive commitments on her behalf, and gaslighting her!

She already suggested the possibility of getting to know the friends: "I told him that before I make any decisions like that I'd need to get to know them first." As sudden and unexpected as his proposal was, she was willing to consider it!

His response was to pull the "if you really loved me you'd do as I say" card, say she couldn't have any contact with the friends short of the full move-in commitment, and accuse her of insulting them because she wanted to get to know the people before moving in with them!

It's not the proposed quad arrangement that's objectionable. It's his manipulative, emotionally abusive tactics to try to coerce her into the arrangement.
Oh, and he topped it all off by calling her jealous, insecure, and close-minded...all for wanting to think it through.
And baby makes five? And a "business?" Never mind the triad, the BF seems to be trying to start a cult and the LW is to be captive labor.

By now, even without her reading the column, I would hope the LW has realized that this isn't a question she needed help answering. She might have questioned the possibility of making it work when she first started mulling it over, but seriously? The answer is pretty obvious. Nothing about this sounds anything like a way to spend the rest of your life.

My first thoughts were along the same lines as everyone else's (Abortion! DTMFA! run!)

But then I thought, maybe we're giving this guy too much credit. BF's behavior is so creepy and deceitful that I would not put anything past him - not poking holes in a condom, not switching out her birth control pills, and not having methodically plotted this farce of a relationship from the beginning. It's just all too convenient. It's not just that he springs his "family" on FSA a few days after she found out she was pregnant. He LIED about even having this family. Not even a lie of omission, straight up committed the lie, restricted her access to his "family" during the past year (yeah, of course they were traveling), and then refuses to let her get to know them unless she has already committed to starting a business and raising a baby with them. He waited until he thought he had her trapped and vulnerable, then his friends are suddenly back in town and an integral part of his life. And how dare she stand up for her right to make her own choices (or even ask questions). Dan's right - this is just the start of the crazy if FSA doesn't extricate herself immediately. Of course he will try to get custody of any future child(ren) because he planned this all along.
Looks like some other commenters beat me to the "he planned this" punch (comments still aren't all loading). The idea that it sounded kinda like a cult occurred to me too.

Last thought: Don't tell him if you do decide to get an abortion (or a lawyer), FSA. Tell him you're thinking/coming to terms with what all of this means for your future together. None of us wants you to be a test case when the triad tries to assert a legal claim over an embryo.
I'm a big Dan fan, and a big fan of Slog commenters in general, but I'm a little disturbed by all the calls to abortions. While Dan is an avid feminist, I don't like the idea of any cis dude telling any woman that an abortion may be her best bet. It would have been better wording to say something like, "there were certain circumstances in place when you decided to have this baby and those circumstances have been thrown out the window. It's probably a healthy decision to reconsider with all the new circumstances in mind." But, although he later said she may not have to do it, to include the wording "'Get an abortion' is the only right answer here, isn't it?" is nothing more than arrogant and ignorant when it comes from a cis guy who will never be in that position. Women don't need men telling women what to do with their bodies--whether they're pro-life and pro-choice, and I am certainly the latter.
Two people you don't know raising your child, meddling with your income through co-ownership of a surprise business, living with you 24/7, and all of this being imposed on you by the father of your child? It's not like she has a choice in this immersion. It's all or nothing.

This doesn't sound like daycare, it sounds like a cult.
Oops, cached page made me think the last posts hadn't been published ;(
@thevictator: Nobody is ordering her to do anything, so she can choose to disregard as she sees fit, especially considering she's probably not reading the comments. Not suggesting it as an option is misplaced politeness. Her decision is her own, fully divesting from an unstable individual at her level of ability is certainly good advice.
Oh LW.....Get an abortion, dump the horrifyingly scary sperm donor, and then....consider spending a week or two at a nice sunny resort somewhere far, far away. Long enough for the inevitable screaming and crying (and quite possibly destroying her stuff) to blow past.

In the meantime, block. Block on your phone, block on social media. Send a "do not contact me again" via email, and then send everything he tries to email you into a special folder labelled something like Cthulu. If he tries to financially entangle you or gets into your business, you need every character of documentation you can.

Consider temporarily disabling your Facebook and LinkedIn.

Definitely change all of your passwords.

Run run run run run.
Heads Up: Make sure you guys are using AdBlock because some of the ads served up here have been riddled with Malware.
Ah. Here is what's happening. Apparently there has been a burst of Malvertising in the last two months.…
Would a transwoman have a more valid opinion victator, despite ya know, not being able to have an abortion? Why throw cis in at all?
@ Brooklyn Reader (whose #0 is much rarer than #69!)
I was just about to suggest the cult possibility too. I'm getting this vibe that he and his triad cohorts will be the leaders over whatever random people (especially women who can make babeez) they can attract and influence. If the LW doesn't have an abortion and this creep manages to get shared custody, I could see him and the others doing their best to indoctrinate the kid into the lifestyle to the eternal consternation of the LW.

I'm constantly amazed to see the vitriol some people can spout at their partners while expecting everyone to believe that they love them. Run, LW, run.
Please get away! I speak from experience: it took 1.5 years for me to realize that my last LTR partner was batshit crazy, manipulative, and abusive to boot. The shoes just kept dropping with the female friends who weren't just friends and the lies...OMG the lies I actually cannot count them. They're in the triple digits. GET OUT NOW because it only gets harder to leave as time goes on...your desire to leave won't change when the person is manipulative.
Abortion: it might be the best bet, but that depends on the LW. I happily have a wonderful kid, but having that kid means that kid will also be forced into relations with these manipulative, lying, at least partially crazy people..ok at least the daddy-to-be is all the aforementioned. Seriously, you have to consider the health of the environment you're exposing your kid to. If you really love and want them, give them the best possible opportunity you can. If you know they'll be forced into an emotionally unhealthy situation for their life that could seriously fuck with their future, it may be better to find a sperm donor and have a little one that way. Then YOU are the only one who decides what's right for the kidlet, not some manipulative lying asshole who will surely subject your child to trauma.
The sex stuff in this is a MacGuffin. This guy would be DTMFA material regardless of whether he used to bang these people; he's showing all the manipulator/abuser warning signs at worst and just being a tremendous jackass at best.

There's nothing wrong with him having people in his life he cares about, or even saying "look, these people are super important to me and one way or the other they're going to be part of my life." But every way he does it here is shitty. And quite honestly it's hard to think he's not this shitty about lots of other stuff, but LW is still in enough new relationship glow as to not be seeing it yet.

Screw this guy.
Caretaking has removed me from the dating pool for quite some time now but I don't remember romance being the viper's den full of deceptive emotional terrorists that Dan's letters have been suggesting lately. Jesus.
@thevictator: I'm a bio woman, and I've had an abortion. Am I permitted to speak on this matter by your eminence, the privilege police?

She asked for advice. She got a recommendation. Tiptoeing around the dreaded "a" word treats her like a helpless child. It's far more sexist to be squeamish about straight talk for fear of hurting the delicate sensibilities of the unique feminine flower than it is to give an outsider's opinion.

Sometimes, one is too close to a situation to see clearly, or personal experiences charge and taint perception of an issue. For that reason, outsider opinions are often valuable.
"Nothing about this sounds anything like a way to spend the rest of your life."

Most importantly because it won't be her life, it'll be his life and his friends lives and the baby's life as dictated by the rest and she won't have any control over anything to come. She wasn't asked and she wasn't given an option for any of these scenarios.
@XiaoGui17: I really don't understand how someone could only be pro-choice when they can't handle anyone suggesting one choice or another.

It's the sort of clammy false-evenhandedness and feigned objectivity that helps no one.
BiDiFan you are giving this guy WAY too much credit. He was dishonest about his relationship from the start, portraying it as something that was over and now basically saying that he wants to be in a poly relationship. And how long do you think he'll be okay with things being platonic?

Not to mention you're also assuming the friends are *totally okay* with raising a complete strangers baby. Never mind that they don't know her either or might have their own plans for reproduction in place that don't involve either the LW or her boyfriend.

This guy changed the rules so fast, do you really think this is the only time he'll pull this? That he won't keep pushing and moving the goal posts to keep the LW off-balance as abusers do?
Ooof. I hope you have some good friends and family to be a shoulder to cry on here, LW. You need a support system that is not crazy and manipulative. If it were me, I'd have an abortion. I would seriously consider doing it under the radar and telling the bloke it was a miscarriage because of the potential for this craziness to go downhill fast and end in worse manipulation and abuse. Hang in there. I hope your exit from the relationship goes as smoothly as possible, all things considered.
@thevictator, I read that as "get an abortion is the only right answer" for Dan to give, not "the only right answer" for the LW. She asked for his advice. He put himself in her shoes and gave it. He stated the other options, but all seem to come with considerable risk to the LW's mental and likely physical health and ability to escape this situation. Yeah, it was blunt, but it's also pretty arrogant to say that a cis man can't bluntly discuss a woman's options with her when she's asked his advice.
@thevicator -- She *asked* Dan for advice. That is what gives him the right to give it, regardless of his cis-ness or male-ness.
To the vicator take the SJW stuff and cram it. People here aren't telling the LW to get an abortion because we're all Het Men who hate Babies, we're telling her to get an abortion because the situation she finds herself in is dangerous, to both her and the baby. And having a baby with this guy has consequences they'll both be dealing with for the rest of their lives.
First, bring in the people YOU trust the most to have YOUR interests in mind. Next, GET A LAWYER. IMMEDIATELY. Secure your rights and the rights of that child if you intend to keep them. Hell, I'd push for a way to invalidate his parental rights before that child is even born just because he entered into a relationship based on fraud.

DTMFA, run as fast as possible in the other direction, and find a way to get him away from you and that baby ASAP.
@43 msanonymous
That's exactly what I thought when I got to the bottom of the letter and it was so apparent how crazy and manipulative he was: Did he poke holes in the condoms? Was this pregnancy perhaps not the happy accident the LW supposes??????
LW, did you talk with this man about you getting pregnant? The way you talk about it, doesnt sound like it. So did you guys not use contraception, did you trick him into it or a contraception mistake happen?
Having a child is a big deal. Not to take away from this man's bizaar response. It may however be him freaking the fuck out. Maybe he doesn't really want a child and he thinks he has to say positive, supporting things to you.
Just the freaking out bit has lead to his over the top demands.
Dan, can you please save this poor woman's email and make sure she's ok in a few weeks? This letter is terrifying and it gives me a panic attack just reading it. You don't have to update the readers, just makes sure Mr. Cuckooforcocopuffs hasn't killed her or something.
Not disagreeing with most of the advice here. This is all pretty messed up!
I just have another (non-cult) theory about what might be going on here and what the bf is so desperately trying to accomplish with his emotional blackmailing tactics.
My guess would be that the MMF relationship he told her about wasn't just a casual, friendly thing. He fell in love with one or both of them, perhaps rules were broken, who knows what, but the couple's absence from his life when he started dating her (downplaying their significance) sounds like it was more of a break-up than anything. I'm willing to bet he's been talking to the couple (or one of them) for a while about getting back together and the reason they are ok with it is because he's not single anymore (and therefore less of a threat to their primary relationship). He probably misrepresented things when speaking to them as well, making them believe the LW was all aboard with everything. In the meantime, he was either planning on trying to convince her to go along with the plans and dreams he had with the couple, or just milk her ignorance for as long as possible and maybe conveniently break up if she stuck to wanting to be monogamous. Her becoming pregnant brought everything to a head, he's been lying to everyone and now he's panicking! This would explain why he can't let her speak to them until she's agreed to go along with buying the house together and all that.
LW, you need to get away from this man, now. He has become unhinged, whatever the cause. You need to decide for yourself of course, how to proceed re the pregnancy. Having a child with this man involved is not an option.
Find this couple on your own and talk to them. Tell them of his demands.
Also, you could suggest to him to see a therapist. Maybe the pregnancy has set him off and he needs to find out why.
Don't let his madness define you.
I would update the comment: ".. If you don't want to be tied to this person for the next 18 years, " to 21 years at minimum and possibly more. Many states have child support commitments continue up until 21 if the child continues their education. Even if you no longer have to communicate directly with each other. You'll still be the child's parents until well, forever. So RUN!
I'm wondering why everyone thinks the woman would have to deal with the baby daddy on some level for a period of only 18 years? What happens after that? I get the legal part, but the fact of the matter is, as long as that child and/or the other parent is alive...she will always have to deal with the guy in some way. My sister's kid is in his early 20's now and it's still going on. So if the girl plans on keeping the baby...she should consider that she'll have to deal with the guy indefinitely...till someone dies.
Holy shite. OP, I know it sounds callous, but if you are not opposed to abortion, it IS your best option, because eighteen years anchored to this unstable liar will make your life hell. And if you decide to go forward, yes, get a good lawyer NOW.
Victator....every single detail of this entire situation reeks of abuse. As long as LW is pregnant, she is tied to this person. The first, quickest, and smartest thing she can do is remove all ties, including the pregnancy.

You don't need to be cis or het to see that. You don't need to be a woman to see that staying pregnant and staying in a relationship with this person is a danger to health and sanity. You don't need to be cis, het, straight, or female to see so many red flags flying here that it looks like Moscow in the 1940s.
Wow. I can tell you from having made the mistake of having children with a man with a severe personality disorder, to whom I became entrapped to for (really) the rest of my life. My kids are now 22 and 20, and I have lived through a purposeful and willfully aggressive unpleasant co-parenting situation and severe parental alienation. When I left him the oldest was 5. I truly regret having kids with a monster. I barely knew him when I got knocked up. I had the legal option to chose abortion, and goddess only knows I shouldn't have believed his lies. Hippy dude turned into conservative Bush voter. Seriously, he misrepresented himself, and yours sounds like he's doing the same in his own way. I am a really awesome mom. My parenting story is just really super sad. I won't tell you what to do, but girl I wish you the very best. I do wish you'd wait to have a kid with someone you would actually enjoy the rest of your co-parenting experience with. Go to and read some of the posts from the people who are co-parenting with a disordered person and visualize into your future. Again, good luck. I'll be keeping you in my thoughts.
Crazy is as crazy does and this dude is crazy. Concerned about his reaction over an abortion. If she does it, she should tell him she had a miscarriage, and then use it as an excuse to reevaluate the relationship and BREAK UP AND DON"T LOOK BACK. For God's sake use this mess as a learning experience not to get in so deep next time before realizing you are with a nutjob (and pregnant!!!!).
Holy shit. Run. Run now. Run yesterday.
One has to wonder if the mystery couple aren't out of town all the time because they ALSO decided that this guy was crazy and they wanted to get some space from him. I think poster #91's theory is pretty plausible. Regardless, I hope this poor woman gets away from this nut!

oh god

this guy is every poly nightmare made flesh

keep that baby if you want to, but be prepared to fight in court to keep this impossible lying Mephistopheles son of a bitch out of your life and your child's life. don't have that baby if you can't afford a damn good law firm.

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