Savage Love

The One-Night Stand

Comments

1
Perhaps because I am a cis female and am being hetero-gynocentric, I didn't necessarily get from NOPENIS's letter that his one off definitely was with a guy. At the risk of sounding sexist, Buck Angel's perspective may not be as helpful if the LW's one night hookup was with a woman.
2
Re LW-1
Perhaps she needs to consider dating as a female within the kink community? Attend some fetlife-friendly functions? The FL-ers will be more open to TG dating I would guess. Just an idea.
Re friend
Oh! He is looking to be Mr. Buttinsky and start some drama. His lady- friend likes living on the edge;... he needs to allow her to go forth and stay out of the meddler role
.
3
Re: Anon's letter: Well, if I weren't in such utter agreement all the anti-Fox News sentiments, I might wonder why my favorite sex-advice column has begun offering non-sex oriented public service announcements. To which Dan might reply "Because I can." I wouldn't have a good counterargument in that case.
5
Agree with @1. Maybe it's in part of the letter that Dan edited out, but I couldn't tell whether NOPENIS's hookup was with a man or a woman.

If NOPENIS is into gals: welcome to being a dude, dude. We can go months-- even years-- without anyone showing any sexual interest in us, penis or no. Learning the straight man swagger (as perfected by the dearly departed Prince) is key to getting in on with gals as a dude. And feeling down on yourself can get you into a self-loathing spiral that sends women running for the hills.

There's an endless amount of advice on breaking out of that cycle, but it basically boils down to finding comfort with yourself, building a nice and fulfilling life, and then looking for someone to share that life with. Attempting to reverse that order-- that is, believing that you need to find someone to have a nice life-- generally ends in failure for us straight dudes. So you may need to take some time off from dating while you work on you.

Good luck!
6
My mother used to use a device that turned off just about any television to shut down Fox News on televisions in waiting rooms, restaurants, etc. She said it was pretty amusing watching staff try to figure out what went wrong and then finding that it shut off again. She's a pretty stealthy woman with a good poker face, so it wasn't hard for her to surreptitiously shut down Fox News repeatedly until people gave up and left the TV off. It was something like this thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TV-B-Gone
7
@1 I think the majority of his advice was good. Especially the part about finding comfort with your body. This isn't about the hookup it's about the LW's discomfort with themselves, and that's going to be the thing that kills their chances, not being Trans.
8
@4: Ah, back to human garbage and begging for attention with the rape jokes I see.
9
@6: nanoboy, I love your mom.
10
@1 & @5 - Same here. Where does NOPENIS say that his hookup/friend is a guy friend or a girl friend? Did Dan severely edit this letter?
11
@9: Oh, she's a character. If she was a Dungeons and Dragons character, she would have a chaotic good alignment. We got her an electric chainsaw for Christmas, and she's been delighted with it. She's a good mom.
12
LW 1- for good or bad, at some point we all have to accept that what we know is what we know.
Not to discount your experience, yet everyone is unique.

Once you make peace with yourself it is often easier to do so with others.
13
Dan---spot on advice, especially to FRIEND.
Oye vey---after half a century's worth of battle scars and fighting off too many meddlesome idiots stubbornly insisting upon reorganizing MY life only to suit their own selfish needs, I have long since learned to choose my own battles. Oof.
14
Dan, Anonymous, and everybody: I don't consider Fox news (perish the thought!), anyway.
I'm obviously doing something right (not right wing).
@6 nanoboy: I love it! We need that device on ALL TVs throughout the United States.
Imagine the Wising Up of America.
15
One more: bless you, Dan, and Buck Angel for wonderful advice to NOPENIS.
I'm still learning to love myself, Wile E. Coyote quirks, and all.
16
I felt the same Nocute when I read nanoboy's post. What a smart woman.
Electric chainsaw user as well.
Smart and epic woman.
17
Mr Nano/Ms Cute/Ms Grizelda/Ms Lava - I appreciate the sentiment, but Mary Whitehouseing from the other side isn't the answer. It's far too easy to approve of free speech only for those who agree with one. This sort of direct attack will only end up making the movable middle mistake the other side for Dr Stockmann.

I'll take a page here from Mr Savage, who calls being HIV + a superpower, and say that Fox News, appalling as it may be, serves an equally useful purpose - along with Mr Limbaugh and the rest. It doesn't make perfectly decent people into monsters. It simply shows us monsters who were already there, as unpleasant as it may be to admit it.

The deprogramming comments trouble me deeply. I don't like anything that hints of an enforced conversion. I've been through that.
18
nanoboy, nanoboy’s mother, formerly-known-as, lava -
I’m afraid you are way over glorifying the electric version. Even I can still manage the old-fashioned, hand-held, noisy, risky-yet-rewarding gasoline one.
As for TV’s- yes, intended- why spend your time and money in such places to begin with?
19
Mr. Ven: I won't patronize places that have a tv on--I don't care what channel it's tuned to. Anyone who's doing her part to reduce the amount of noise pollution in the world by turning off tvs is someone I admire. The fact that she's turning off brainwashing, vitriolic, bigotry is merely icing on the cake.
20
CMD, my son has been trimming trees with the electric chainsaw today. It's not a tool to be messed with.
21
@17 I agree Venn. I mean the uncomfortable truth is that we don't how people feel unless we tell them, and there are parts of their lives that we just don't see. I mean it's possible that Senko's Dad always felt that way and Senko just didn't see it or understand it till she was an adult.
22
LW1, why is your twat being neglected?
You got to love and embrace your own sex , then others will pick up the vibe.
I'm sorry you've feeling so low.

There seems to be some confusion re the sex this LW is attracted to? I'm reading he was into girls before the transition. Now he's into boys.
Just don't wait for others to give yourself attention, LW.
Have you spoken to your friend, let them know how you're feeling? If you just new to the world of being with men, speak up from the start. If they disabuse you, tell em straight. Few slaps around the head sometimes helps as well.
No, no violence.
23
@5 Why do you think it's different with women?
24
SNJ @1: Fair point - but excluding the bit about "hookups are typical for gay men," the rest of Buck's advice stands. Tinder's existence is proof that hookups are pretty typical for young straights too.

sb53 @2: Wow. A trans man should consider "dating as a female"???? No. Just no. Trans men are men.

Hunter @4: Not funny.

Wild @10 et al: Why does it matter whether NOPENIS hooked up with a guy or a girl? Or another trans/non-binary person? If someone doesn't like you enough to fuck you more than once, that's painful, no matter the gender of that person.

NOPENIS, maybe try thinking less along the lines that this person rejected you. They are just not sexually discerning enough to realise that repeat sex is far better sex than one-off sex. I'd suggest NOPENIS put a profile on OKCupid, which is trans friendly, and also draws people who are looking for ongoing relationships (as evidenced by the effort one must put in answering questions; this shows a far stronger commitment to wanting a person you get along with than swiping right or left). Bisexuals are NOPENIS's strongest target market; as his body is part male and part female, he'll be more desirable to those who like vaginas and hairy chests rather than tolerating one in order to get the other. Good luck, NOPENIS!
25
Ginnie @23: IHSN @5 seems to be arguing that it's different with women because women are hard to get and men are easy to get. Which is, for the most part, true.
27
RE, an interesting read. I always thought dick was in abundance, for young women. I always found it so.
This piece of writing has a difficult tone, then the world of Tinder is a particular domain. Denigrating male sexuality is as offensive as doing the same to women.
28
Interesting article, RE. Lava, I didn't take it as denigrating male sexuality, rather as denigrating male laziness and entitlement. The guys who made a (minimal) effort to see women as more than just a pizza to be ordered got lucky with the author, didn't they? Even some who behaved rather thoughtlessly. (I am feeling a bit better about having shagged certain people who showed up late or hadn't showered because I was just that horny.)

Casual sex is indeed a seller's market, and I'll partially agree with LateBloomer that women who want casual sex are lucky that they can easily get it.
29
Too easy Fan. Her tone was denigrating; hence the 'low value' in the quote she repeated.
And what's with the NaaNaa attitude. Now it's our turn to treat you like Many of you have treated us. What is advanced about that.
30
@25 Not where I'm from to be honest
31
Lava @29: If you'd received some of the typical messages guys send on dating sites, you'd be hard pressed to maintain any level of respect for them as a gender as well. Seriously, it makes one consider celibacy as an option.

Ginnie @30: So does that mean you find it hard to get men or easy to get women? If the latter, where are you from? ;)
32
Ms Cute - I can agree with reduction of noise pollution, although I can read through anything and probably notice it less. I suppose there's a point in a dentist's office, say, but not much more.

Mainly, though, that sort of thinking very easily operates from the other side as well, and escalates into such things as right-wingers spoiling or removing "objectionable" library books.
33
As for the first letter, it's probably another of those from the great editing well. I fear that Rumpole would not approve of Mr Savage, who is increasingly resembling the prosecutor who doesn't share all the vital evidence with defending counsel.
36
Wah, wah, wah, NOPENIS who had "difficult" parents and now has "PTSD" (labels make such good excuses...) While this letter screams not enough information! it's all we have to go on, so...stop blaming the world for your problems (real or imagined) and start taking responsibility for your own happiness! Easy to say, I know, but you're not the only starfish in the sea who had a less than ideal childhood, or faces life's numerous difficulties and gets bummed out. If you haven't already been in counseling for years, GET SOME, if you have GET SOME MORE, or get some that's more effective. Face it, you are different from the majority of folks in the world. That's not a negative, that's an opportunity. Learn how to make it work for you instead of crying about how unfair life is and I'll bet you'll see more dates that last longer. And, hey! Nothing wrong with a one night stand or two (or three) along the way. Enjoy them until something "better" comes along...at least one other person is finding you fuckable! So that's something to build on.
38
Hunter: There is no tv in my doctor's office, or dentist's office. While there is a tv running in the waiting area at my car dealership (not a garage, but the service department at the dealership), I don't wait there. If the time for service is short, I walk around the area and I bring a book and go to a (tv-less) cafe and read; if it's going to take the better part of a day, I walk home or get a ride home and go about my day until I can retrieve my car.

I guess I am lucky in that I live in a place where the ever-blaring tv isn't a staple of public life. There are sports bars, but I don't frequent those, and the bars and restaurants I go to (and I lead a fairly vibrant social life) don't have tvs in them.

When Harry Met Sally's faked orgasm scene was filmed in Katz's Delicatessen in New York's Lower East Side. The deli has been around since 1888, and is a classic. It looks like this and you can learn more about it here. I can't vouch for the lack of tvs in it now, but the last time I was there, in 2012, there wasn't one. It's not a "tv on" kind of place.
39
The waiting area of my local hospital's emergency room has a tv on at all times, and it strikes me that the very last thing people who are undergoing some kind of physical trauma need is to be unable to escape the noise and inanity. It seems like a poorly-thought idea.

A pediatric orthopedic surgeon whose office I have visited has a tv monitor which is really a dvd player in it, that runs movies like Wall-E or Finding Nemo, etc., but the volume is low and the tv is situated such that it is escapable should watching the movie not be your thing.
40
Hunter @34: I never said GOOD men were easy to get.
And the privilege belongs not to women, but to people who like men. Want your dick sucked? Simples, join Grindr.
41
Now how about some advice on deprogramming the rabid social justice warrior in your life?
42
venn @ 33, so agree with that; wish he would let people speak for themselves without alteration, and if the letter is too long, then so be it. It seems that sometimes the letter writer's issue is compromised in favor of Dan making some tangential point. Having said that, I thought it was all good advice and funny too (FRIEND).

Hunter @4, are you trying to deliberately provoke trolls? Not funny.

Lava@27, re dick is abundant....I didn't read her message as "denigrating male sexuality". My abridged version is: There are countless (especially young) entitled men wanting to hook up, as long as it doesn't involve them doing any of the adapting or compromising involved. Young men who recognize that girls just wanna have fun but not necessarily do all the work are a much rarer breed. l feel no compunction in rejecting the former (gleefully) while seeking the latter.
44
@venn: It doesn't make perfectly decent people into monsters.

I disagree. My dad's a lovely, kind, generous, warm man, who was temporarily transformed into a paranoid conservative by Fox News, and even more so, by these viral emails that travel through the senior citizen network spreading outrageous, ridiculous lies wrapped up in a nostalgic, patriotic package specifically designed to manipulate the emotions of people like him.

He once include me on one of these group emails, and I took the opportunity to introduce him to snopes. We've also had some talks about Fox News. Apparently, some of his friends/peers have given him similar feedback on his sources. He only has a 10th grade education, but he's not an idiot, so he took the feedback. His bullshit detector now seems to be in working order, and he's settled back into his default apolitical stance.
45
Lava @ 20, nocute, nano-
Looks like Venn was very polite and avoided using one of his own best abbreviations. I saw those early comments of support as a clear cut YGG.
I was tempted to write something like, “Electrical chain saw is for sissies,” but I didn’t.
46
Dr Sean - You're describing the symptom, but I meant the capacity. People can be taken in, but it's a question of what they'll do while they are. Not everyone will be susceptible to hypnosis, or be able to be taken so far when under.

Of course, you probably have a higher general opinion of human nature than I do.
47
@BiDanFan: Tinder's existence is proof that hookups are pretty typical for young straights too.

Not really. YMMV, but on my Tinder, almost all of the female profiles explicitly (sometimes emphatically) state that they are not interested in hookups, and I'm pretty sure the rare exceptions I've encountered were hookers. Of the women I know who use Tinder, they all use it as a dating app, not for booty calls.

P.S. One of the more interesting experiences I've had was hanging with a couple of women while they swiped through Tinder. Main takeaway - if you're a guy, it really helps to have a boat.
48
Mx Wanna - We could make a case for this being an example of YGL (for Liberal), though I do think Ms Cute has a valid point about noise.
49
@venn: but I meant the capacity

That did occur to me.

you probably have a higher general opinion of human nature than I do.

I don't know. You're talking to a man who thought Lord of the Flies was overly optimistic, and Machiavelli too naive.
50
Sean @47: I admit I've never been on Tinder, so everything I know about it is anecdotal and comes from articles like the one RE posted and this one: http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/0…
Based on the general reputation of Tinder as being geared more for casual dating, do you think that many of the women on it are saying they don't want a hookup because they feel obligated to, but in reality, they're going into McDonald's and attempting to order something healthy?

Not even sure where the distinction between "dating" and "hookups" lies, anyway. Is it the intention of having a second date if the first goes well?

Googled and found this article, which, while it mainly reads as an advert for the app, does state that it's still mostly casual sex-focussed. I do like the idea that no one can message you unless you've swiped them right, though. Must cut down on some of the horrible messages we get on other sites, as RE's author discovered.
http://www.marieclaire.co.uk/blogs/54394…
51
To those who pointed it out...I reread Buck Angel's advise and I agree that other than the comment that "hookups are typical for gay men," his advice is solid and could pertain to anyone regardless of gender identity or gender-preference in partners.
52
Venn @ 48
"Valid point about noise" aside, I'm not sure nano’s mom could generate the same amount of sympathy if the L in YGL was a he. And the chain saw, electric or not, would have never been mentioned to begin with, let alone celebrated.
53
Hey NOPENIS, if you are reading these comments, I have two pieces of advice for you on your path:

First, welcome to being a dude. It has its perks, but you lose the allure that women have that basically allows them to have sex whenever they want to. Sometimes going long periods of time without sex is just something we have to deal with.

Second (and this may be odd since I do not actually know if you are into girls or guys), if you are looking to pick up women, nothing sends them fleeing more than a guy who is down on himself and has no confidence. They smell that stuff from a mile away and none of them want anything to do with it. I know media likes to claim women want emotional guys who are willing to talk about their vulnerabilities, but this is totally untrue in the wild.

Focus on yourself, not others. Get your self esteem up, make reasons to be proud of yourself, and everything else falls into place. Get some therapy if you feel that would help. When you are confident, people will respond.
54
@BiDanFan: Keep in mind, the article Registered European linked to is by a woman who's spent her entire life in the market for men. How would she have any clue about what the broader market for women looks like, on Tinder or anywhere else?

do you think that many of the women on it are saying they don't want a hookup because they feel obligated to

They say they are looking for relationships, not just fucks, and I have no reason to doubt them or think they are just being coy. I think they feel obligated to clarify their motives because of Tinder's reputation as a hookup app. In fact, some of them say as much.

Many of them have pictures of their kids in their profiles. Some of them mention their devotion to God. Sexy photos are very rare. Tinder really is nothing at all like Grindr, at least in Seattle.

distinction between "dating" and "hookups"

Dating is about relationships, hookups are about sex.

Some caveats:
* My filter has a lower bound of 35 years old. Things may be different among the youngsters.
* When I was in Belgium and France, I didn't see any disclaimers about hookups. My match rate was also waaaaay higher, which is interesting, because the personal statement on my profile is just one word: "Mischief!"
55
I hope that NOPENIS gets into therapy, if he's not already in it.

A lot of people, cis and trans alike, gay, straight, and bi, mono and poly, don't have the love lives we want. Sometimes a one-night stand buoys our confidence and sometimes the one-night nature of it makes us feel worse. If NOPENIS is looking for love and a committed long-term relationship, and if he knows that having casual sex without the promise or expectation of a repeat makes him feel worse about himself, than I'd suggest he focus only on getting what he really wants and not settling for something that will make him feel unloveable.

It might be hard to find love, NOPENIS, and not simply because you are a man with a forlorn underused twat who is dealing with PTSD from difficult parents and Irish Catholicism in your background. But take a look around at all the people who are equally challenging partners and have managed to find love. It's possible.

In the meantime, surround yourself with things and people that make you feel happy and appreciated. Find things in life that you believe in and do them. Feel a sense of purpose. Make some new friends with non-romantic potential. Do at least one new thing you've never done or tried before at least once every two weeks. Volunteer in your community. Pet dogs at the local animal shelter. Read more. Take a dance class. Join a cycling club or a gardening club. Try to get the most out of life you can get, and while that is no guarantee that you will fall in love or be loved, it will be a good in its own right, and it will make you a zillion times more attractive to other people. And get out there--no one is going to come knocking on any of our doors out of the blue to tell us they love us.
56
Sean @54: "How would she have any clue about what the broader market for women looks like, on Tinder or anywhere else?"

Well, there was this paragraph: these men surmised that women were so dense as to not even know the purpose of Tinder and took to the internet to complain about the gaggle of prudes who disappeared them into the abyss or went silent on them. One tweet reads, “My findings show that about 80% of women don’t know what Tinder is for.” Another reads, “I always get the girls on Tinder who act like they don’t know what Tinder is for smfh."
Which indicated to me a general understanding of Tinder being for hookups.

Dating is about relationships, hookups are about sex.

But the purpose of relationships is sex -- sex with the same person instead of with random people. So you haven't drawn a distinction, or at least, not one that's different to the one I made -- dating is about repeat sex, hookups are not.
Either that or the relationship I had which ended in marriage was a nine-year hookup.
57
Or you could say: Hookups are sex without the dating.
58
Last PS, other than to note that @56 and @57 are tongue-in-cheek and meant as personal observations rather than judgments on anyone's dating/hooking/relationshipping experiences but my own (since some people take off-the-cuff remarks quite personally), I also was under the impression that Tinder was largely for the under-30 crowd, another reason I deemed myself not the target market.
59
@BiDanFan: But the purpose of relationships is sex

Most people seem to view relationships as being more than just about sex. I feel a little funny about speaking on behalf of these women, so here they are in their own words:

"I'm hear (sic) looking for the real deal"

"Need road trips, food/cocktail adventures, cinema-music-book fiend."

"I love the outdoors, shooting, all sports, and being on the water. I am looking for a relationship, not a 'hook up'."

"Not looking for a hook up... if you are emotionally available and interested in allowing a relationship to grow naturally send me a message."

"I'm looking for that person who just 'fits' with me for a meaningful relationship."

"Looking for more than a hookup. Friends first and let's go have some fun."

"I am not interested in a hook up but I am interested in a great friendship."

"I would love to share my life with someone and maybe you're that guy."

"Looking to meet someone fun with similar interests who enjoys exploring all that Seattle has to offer"

"Mental and physical connection is a must"

P.S. Now that I'm actually counting, there are a lot of profiles with no text at all (maybe they are into hookups), and 2 of the last 20-30 I just swiped through stated they were up for casual sex.
61
BiDanFan - I've now tried two dating apps. First, I tried Tinder. Had a positive experience. Interacted with 4 guys, met 3 of them, had some virtual fun with the 4th. Each was looking for something unique. One was seeking a monogamous thing and we did that for a while. It was nice. Then I tried OKC, thinking I was ready to move more in the direction of dating vs. hookups. Hated it. Bombarded by hundreds of messages, many of which were gross. Like a sexually explicit message from a dude with a single picture of his hairy torso, accompanied by a username that was a jumble of random numbers and letters. Very discouraging. Since then, I've talked to a couple Tinder using guys about this and they told me they don't think there's an expectation of an immediate hookup when using Tinder. That kind of surprised me. Maybe the expectation depends on the person more than the site.
63
@BiDanFan - Oops, should have realized you were joking, didn't.
64
LW1 - I'm a cisgendered woman, but I relate to your comment on a deep level. Every sexual encounter I had before I met my husband was a one & done deal, even though I wanted a steady sex partner. My sexual encounters were very few & far between (years and years would go by before I would find a guy who wanted to have sex with me...and then they were gone after one time.)

I have a lot of self-esteem issues and self-hatred around this. I've taken all that disappointment at not being able to find ANYONE to have sex with and turned it inward, which is not healthy. It's also become an identity in a strange way - I'm the ugly woman who no man will touch. Anything outside that doesn't make sense to me.

I can't speak to being trans because it's outside my experience, but I can say that if you can get into therapy with a trans-friendly therapist, it may help you from using your sexual disappointment as a weapon against yourself. Dan is right - you didn't do anything wrong. You just haven't met the right people yet. Please don't do what I've done and make your relationship with yourself a nightmare.
65
@futurecatlady: Interesting. Tinder removes some anonymity by requiring you to use your Facebook profile, so that might explain why men behave better.

66
@seandr On Tinder, there's also the benefit of only being able to message people if mutual interest has been established via two right swipes. On OKC, a user can message anyone. Mutual interest is not required. And yes, I like the safety feature of Tinder being linked to Facebook. I'm sure there are workarounds, but it's a nice feature. I also like that the username is the person's real first name. On OKC, the username is an alias of the person's choosing.
67
So much for chain saws…
The more I think about LW2 I get the impression that this is not a “friend,” but rather some Savageville sinister act of aggressive passivity.
(And if I may, I’ll ask Dr. Sean to give the general public his own assessment of this particular phenomenon.)

I hope Mr. Savage did some editing to the letter since I know someone who may fit into the history as described. That said, I don’t think she’s boring and closed-minded and the guy she’s been dating for some time now seems decent.
No marriage plans were communicated to me, though I do wish them the best.
68
Wow thank you for sharing the letter about the "Faux News" dad. I can really relate...except it's not Fox that is creating the anger...I hate to say it but it is one of the more liberal news networks. Myself and my parents are pretty liberal all around and my mom and I have always enjoyed talking politics. We are both TeamHillary!!!! So you wouldn't think we would have any disagreements. But I can't deal with 24hr network news most of the time. Especially, when it is showing the large heads of a older white men ranting away. Even the liberal news gives way too much airtime to a certain candidate. I've noticed my mom become angrier and more aggressive in the past year or two and can only attribute it to the amount of angry network news she watches. The only fights we have had have been when I am visiting her and refuse to watch these channels. Why can't we just watch PBS and Gwen Ifill's claiming presence? Anyways, it seems like it is more then a Fox News problem but all the networks trying to be like them.
69
@CMD: I did wonder why LW2 would consider such a person a "friend".

I'd feel obliged to warn anyone who was about to unknowingly tie the knot with a psychopath. I'm sure we'd all warn a woman against marrying a guy with a history of battering women. I may be in the minority here, but I'd feel equally obliged to warn a man against marrying a lady with a history of ruining men. I don't find anything entertaining about watching predators prey upon people, or people dying in car crashes for that matter.

Not that such warnings are going to be heeded. I was once warned not to get involved with a woman by a mutual friend of ours. He said that underneath her beauty was a "very dark person". I got involved with her anyway, and eventually came to understand exactly what he meant.
70
@28/BiDanFan: "Casual sex is indeed a seller's market, and I'll partially agree with LateBloomer that women who want casual sex are lucky that they can easily get it."

Ok, during a conversation about the so-called "One Penis Policy," some months ago, there was considerable back and forth as to whether women had an easy time finding casual sex, and you took the position that women had a more difficult time than men getting causal sex. But now you're agreeing, "partially," that women, in fact, can easily get causal sex.

So have you changed your position, and if so, why?
71
@69: That confused me as well, I can't be friends with that level of trainwreck, they're going to affect my life in negative ways and exist only to drain others. Why keep them around? Is it a townie "I've known them for so long" sort of thing? I don't get it one bit.
72
I look forward to the day when "I watch Fox News" is treated w/ the same reaction as "I'm a Scientologist."

I wonder about FRIEND's friend's fiance. Did Dan make up the kink about diaper fetishism or was that part edited out of the letter? Either way, perhaps one of his kinks that FRIEND didn't find in her snooping is cuckolding. It could be the case that he feels he's hit the jackpot with this marriage. Dan's advice is still spot-on, although his interpretation of what's going on might be off.
73
@17 vennominon: I must agree with nocutename @19 and nanoboy's (@6) mom on avoiding the brainwashing, ignorance, hatred and bigotry so pathetically over-used on Fox TV. Once again, I am SO glad I don't have a TV, myself. Wiley's cartoon, Non Sequitur, offers the sassy Flo, proprietress of The Offshore Diner, where she has a strictly enforced rule: no political issues. Period. Violators will be trapdoor-dropped outside to the pier from their booths and into frigid waters below, and they have been kindly warned with a smile and a cup of coffee.
What right-wing extremists insist is "the truth" really isn't, and if it's forced, how can such brainwashing be construed as free speech if repeatedly violent and suppressive?

74
Pity no trans* men have come on to comment. i don't know Fan, saying the LW is partial male and partial female is not how I see it.
This person is all male. He just has a vagina.
75
Hunter @62: Exactly. Without sex, the relationship is a "friendship." The difference between a friendship and a relationship is that in a relationship, you're having sex.

Sean @63: Only half joking. I meant what I said, but what I said applies only to my own approach to "dating."

Sean @65: The fact that Tinder links to your Facebook profile horrifies me.
I think men behave better on Tinder because they CAN'T just message random women. They can't message you unless you've swiped them in the right direction. I do like that aspect of it. And I killed the onslaught of inappropriate OKC messages by hiding my profile from straight people. It was bliss. (Though I admit most people on OKC probably do want to meet straight people, so that strategy won't work for everyone.)

Sean @69: I once had a friend approach me and say, "You used to date XX, didn't you?" My immediate response was, "RUN!!!"
She didn't. She lived to regret it too.
76
Sublime @70: You have misstated my position. I never disagreed with the assertion that it is easy for women to get casual sex (with men; not with other women). I disagreed with the assertion that women are "lucky" to have this ability. Most women look at the ability to get casual sex easily the same way (thank you Roma) a vegetarian would view a generous gift voucher to a butcher shop, or a carless New Yorker would view a AAA membership. Being able to get something we don't want is not "lucky" in any way. Most women want relationships (versus hookups, see above), and getting casual sex instead is disappointing at best, traumatic at worst. (See L1 and @64 - NOPENIS and Uggo do not consider themselves at all lucky.)

And in fact, because "ability to get casual sex" goes hand in glove with a lot of things that are bad for women -- such as threat of rape, objectification, street harassment, generally being treated like walking sets of boobs -- most would gladly give up this ability in order to be rid of the downsides.

What I'm partially agreeing with now is that "ability to get casual sex" makes someone lucky if they are among the minority of women who want casual sex.
77
Lava @74: Thanks for the opportunity to clarify. NOPENIS is male. He is a man. His body is part male and part female.
78
@70/@76: Aha! I've now realised where your misremembering of my position must have come from. I said it is easier for men to get casual sex with women than it is for women to get casual sex with women. I stand by that. But it's far easier for women to get hetero casual sex than it is for men. That's an obvious truth.
80
Mx Wanna - I care nothing for chain saws unless they are activated in my immediate vicinity. I try to reserve YGG for a clearer case. Here, I think Mr Nano's father's sabotaging Fox channels would likely have received at least as much support as his mother's sabotaging... MSNBC?

*****

Ms Grizelda - I've no quarrel with a No Television line of argument, or No Politics. The people who unilaterally censor Fox today next week (metaphorically) will unilaterally censor CNN. Censors like to keep censoring. Arbitrarily censoring Fox is treating the symptom and not the disease. Perhaps it's necessary in some circumstances, but to be effective one would want to shrink the reasons for the network's popularity.
81
@73: "how can such brainwashing be construed as free speech if repeatedly violent and suppressive?"

They've suckered people into thinking that known lies are more important than the truth, and criticism is anti-free speech. That area where "rugged individualists", "independents", and "libertarians" all claim that millenials or lib'ruls all want to destroy free speech because we want that cancer to become less malignant. It's a brilliant effort of marketing on Fox's end, when you role up the rubes, they feel it's essential to the world.

I don't think I could ever find a news agency truthful enough that it would be essential to my survival, or at least not that couldn't be replaced with another. That's the brilliance of Fox. The breathless fans see it as an ideological need, they don't realize that any piece of shit talk radio star could replace its content. There's no breaking news, just trash infotainment with hate speech and racist tidbits here and there. Talk shows.

But am talk radio garbage will last as long as the cockroaches when we're all irradiated and doomed.
82
I was 180 degrees off on nopenis letter. I assumed he started out as a man and had surgery to transition to female. Ok I see now that he started as female and is now male. Got it. (I am older than most of you so don't snicker)
My advice is largely the same except I would also add that he should experiment with group activities where there is a mix of sexes. Kayaking Volleyball, an "old car" club. Someone there will respond to his wonderfulness and excited vibe, and off they will go discovering one another. This after all, is the job of the Universe. We just have to jump in and allow her magic to work in our lives, IMHO.
83
Hunter @79: It sounds like you did the right thing. The couple did not lose their livelihoods; they just lost the opportunity to run your friend's bar into the ground. After you warned Harry, it was up to him what to do with the information, and he seems to have used it wisely.
84
Maybe we can take a cue from Utah, and have Fox News declared a public health crisis.
85
I dunno, I think Dan leans towards 'butt out' too hard sometimes, and in the case of FRIEND there are too many unknowns to tell if Dans read of the situation is correct. Just because the guy is on fetlife does not mean that he's cheating, just because the friend expresses horror at BDSM does not mean she isn't actually into it etc. etc. He could be a blameless sap being taken advantage of, we don't know. Personally, I'd let the guy know and stop hanging out with such a drama-generating 'friend' if I thought so little of her.
86
@69 seandr: Congrats for hitting the magic number this week.
@80 vennominon: No arguments about censors / censorship. My focus is really on avoiding unhealthy propaganda, TV, politics, and right wingers altogether, and I feel that cartoonist Wiley and his waitress, Flo are onto something by promoting the return of common sense reasoning over bullying and scare tactics.
@84 jackalope: Utah's onto something!
87
ok. Ok. I'll have a look at the deprogramming stuff. It seems a lost cause with my family, but maybe there are some out there who will hear this message. I don't even need them to be liberal, just intellectually honest. I hate this stuff in my fam.
88
The Fox News answer was amazing and incredibly important. Thanks, Dan.
89
@Uggo 64: My experience was somewhat similar to yours, and for several years I concluded that I must be extremely ugly, because no other explanation, as you say, didn't make sense. (Although the "ugly" hypothesis didn't really fit the evidence well either.) But about 10 years ago a friend told me she thought I had Asperger's, and I've found that hypothesis explains my experiences, in romance as in many other things, much better than the hypothesis that I'm ugly.

I don't know about your situation at all, and this suggestion may be obviously wrong. But if you were Aspergery too it would be consistent with your experience as described in your post.
90
@BiDanFan 76: For me, my inability to get casual sex has gone hand in glove with my inability to find romantic relations and not having the option of having children. These things are not coincidental, they are so closely tied together as to be different sides of the same coin. I take your point that it's a mixed blessing, but I also think that it's associated with upsides that you take for granted.
91
I'm a cis, hetero female, deeply in love with my trans fiancé! We met on Okc, and he came out to me on our first date. It wasn't something I had thought about before, but it wasn't a deal breaker for me and I wanted to see him again. We took things slow physically, but fell in love quickly, and I love every inch of him! I'm sure there are people that wouldn't be into him, but I'm so glad that I gave him a chance, he is by far the best sex I've ever had, and the most amazing, wonderful person I've ever met.
92
Zoot, nice one.
Old Crow; my expartner tried that label on me, once we seperated. Per kind favour of his new partner. He latched onto the Aspergers label so tight, the kids now know how to stir me up.
Social/ sexual relations are hard. Not something I found in my younger days, now though I'm very very specific.
If you not attracting women, then work on those parts of yourself that will attract them.
Self confidence, being in one's life; reasonably healthy body.. If one does these things for oneself, it just becomes a little more relaxed.. which will also attract women. Non clinging ones I mean.
I think a lot of men show aspergers type symptoms, I also think this comes from their not being trained, as women usually are, from birth.. In the art of empathy. Which also can develop one's ability to read cues well.
It's not a biological thing, as male therapists do it. They learn to read others closely, nonverbally, and respond with the appropriate emotion and words.
If , as I've read on my new favouite reading space fetlife, that sex is 95% mental and 5% physical, then you can see how important a developed interpersonal mind is.
People send each other non verbal clues all the time. I'm sure women have done this to you, and you may just not have noticed. Then they stop if you don't pick up on it.
As Nocute pointed out, people don't knock on our doors and tell us they love us. We got to get out there.
And as Justin Baby Beiber reminds us, we got to love ourselves.
93
Many more men than therapists develop empathy.. I should have corrected myself above.
The article RE linked, the girl
making fun of these clunk- ish males.
I reacted to it because it is rude and it doesn't help. These boys go on these sites because they are hookup sites. Then they fumble with how to connect.
94
It's good sex that is 95% mental; just to clarify.
95
I don't know what to say to lw. I wish I could introduce him to this 63 year old guy I know. Short! Clever though. Attractive but no great shakes but gets the gals, wow. He's tried his Don Juan on me and I see why. Confident and charming. Willing to wine and dine and honest where he wants it to go. Had I been unattached i'd ridden that pony even though he's twenty years older than I am.

Of course, I like casual sex so. ...

Lw2 is no friend. Ugh. She just wants to spike that woman, so no. Unclean hands. I hope none of my friends talk about me like that. I don't believe a malicious bone in her body.

Re sex. I dunno. Should we all whine about how easy it is for a guy to get a long term relationship with someone who wants to be monogamous? I know I am lucky as a female that I can get a one night stand, although for the best sex you usually have to get to two or three. But I'm only lucky because I happen to like casual sex and won't go crying when he doesn't call me in the morning.

If I am like lw1, and having casual sex makes me feel like poo, I wouldn't really lucky that I could get all of it like I want.

In other words, luck is in the eye of the beholder. I really wish some of you posters would get this.... it kind of drives me nuts because the underlying implication is that us ladies just don't know how good we have it, all that hot random dick to sample.

No YOU commentator values the casual sex so you would be lucky to get lots of causal sex.... but if lw values a relationship (and does) all the casual in the world matters not. I felt like shit about one night stands, much like lw1, as an early twenty-year old. Now, heh. Nope.
96
Old Crow @90: Good point: inability to get casual sex can also be inability to get the sort of sex that does lead to a relationship. But if children and a good co-parent are what you want, one-night stands are not the way to get them. My point addresses the view some men have that "women are lucky, they can get casual sex anytime they want." What they don't take into consideration is that the kind of sex we can get "anytime we want" is, generally, one-night stands with men who we don't even find attractive and who will probably slut-shame us for it. That's not "lucky."

Zoot @91: Mazel tov! :)

Lava @93: The boys on these hookup sites fumble because they expect a dating site to be like Amazon. You click a button and you get what you want. There is no appreciation that the women on the site are human beings with their own feelings and desires; they show no respect. People who show no respect aren't entitled to it back. I think the author's reaction was entirely appropriate.

DarkHorse @95: "Should we all whine about how easy it is for a guy to get a long term relationship with someone who wants to be monogamous?" -- Wins the thread.

Happy Friday everyone!
97
That is my point Fan. Males who haven't learnt to empathize.
I still think her comment that dicks are low value, is as offensive as the boys' lack of finesse.
Ditto your words to old crow about the availability of casual sex for women. One can walk into any pub, on any night and walk out with a male patron. Some sad sack, desperate to find a woman to enter and cling to. Real rich pickings.
98
That's how it stands for a woman my age. The younger women can attract a less desperate type. And if it's casual you all want, great.
It always played better in the mind, fucking strangers, than it did in reality,
for me.
99
LG @98
It always played better in the mind, fucking strangers, than it did in reality, for me.

That often applies to sex in general. Hot in theory -- awkward in reality.
100
@93: "The article RE linked, the girl
making fun of these clunk- ish males.
I reacted to it because it is rude and it doesn't help. These boys go on these sites because they are hookup sites. Then they fumble with how to connect. "

People "make fun" of them, from afar, as a coping mechanism for their disdain for the people they treat less than equitably, not because they're trying to reach these people directly.
101
@100, Undead
indeed, that's how I read it too. I'm shocked nobody pointed that out. I mean, someone is basically insulting our whole gender treating us as stupid because we dare to exercise our right to decide who we want to sleep with, and we're supposed to do what? curl in fetal position and cry? apologize for not wanting to have sex with someone who wants sex with us?. I think that mocking is the healthy way to deal with the outright fear that some of us feel when we are confronted with the outrageous contempt and entitlement men feel towards our bodies and our lives, and the vitriol we are often subjected to if we reject or ignore them.
102
@101: I'm totally empathetic of people too frustrated to deal with navigating dating sites, I offer to vet friends' dating profiles (in similar ways to how I help with resumes) but why should someone empathize with people who actively dehumanize others? Accepting their humanity is not an endorsement of how they treat others and lash out, passively-to-actively.
103
@95: "Should we all whine about how easy it is for a guy to get a long term relationship with someone who wants to be monogamous?"

It would be more accurate to say "how easy it is for a guy who is already dating a woman to get a long term, monogamous relationship with that woman." I certainly agree with the modified sentiment-- I can't think of many guys I know who have had offers to close or deepen the existing relationship turned down (maybe two?). And I know lots and lots of women who have been frustrated at their inability to get their guy to commit, whatever "commit" means to them.

But! Getting into a relationship in the first place is a hurdle for a lot of straight guys. At my middle-age, I can think of five guy friends who would love to be in a monogamous relationship, but can't get a date for various reasons. I can't think of any women friends who wanted to be married and were not married-- though some did need to kiss a lot of frogs. And whether they stayed married is another question. :/

Still, I take your point. I'd much rather be turned down for a date by ten someones I barely know than have my girlfriend-- whom I may be falling for-- say that she'd rather keep her options open. TBH, I'd rather be turned downed for dates than have to turn people down for dates. In my cuter single youth I was blindsided by date offers before, and it was exasperating to suddenly have to navigate a difficult conversation when I just wanted to drink my beer/ go to sleep/ pay attention in class/ etc. So I think straight guys have it better than straight women. Just pointing out that there are some downsides to being a straight guy, which NOPENIS may be new to.
104
@103: Our worlds would seem to be the obverse of each other
105
@DarkHorseRising: Should we all whine about how easy it is for a guy to get a long term relationship with someone who wants to be monogamous?

No one likes a whiner.

But, if finding good LTRs is something that causes a lot of women angst, we should all be interested in hearing about it, and we should do our best not to respond defensively by denying their experience or turning it into a competition of who has it worse.
106
Lava @97: What did you mean by
"Ditto your words to old crow about the availability of casual sex for women."
What about my words was offensive? I mean, you seem to agree with them, judging by the comment below:

"One can walk into any pub, on any night and walk out with a male patron. Some sad sack, desperate to find a woman to enter and cling to. Real rich pickings."

The point was that yeah, it's easy to get casual sex if you're not picky. But most of us (male, female or otherwise) are. Getting casual (or any) sex with the sort of partner you actually want to be spending your time and sharing your body with isn't so easy. Which is why so many of us, of all genders, are single and unhappy.
107
TY BiFan.... Now if I could get the magical 69.

So I read the "Dicks are Low Value" article.

1. Substantively, I very much agree with her argument. People - men and women - who aren't the least bit interested in engaging the person they approach thoughtfully, even if it's just for a one night bang, are low value.

2. Women do have to fend off some seriously obnoxious behavior online and there is an underlying strain of entitlement I don't like. I am not really very photogenic. I am attractive but not traditionally so.* Yet, even I would get bombarded when online dating. And I also do get angry at some of the nice guy memes out there, where the alleged nice guy gets so angry because the girl he really wants won't sleep with him. Holding my door open doesn't earn you a roll in bed sweetheart.

So I do like what the writer is saying - get comfortable with the word no, don't feel guilty saying it, and end the contact when you decide you don't like the way the communication is going. Because there are a thousand fish in the sea.

I don't necessarily like the implication that men themselves are discard-able penises (penii?). They too have emotions, feelings, and thoughts. But women usually have been trained from an early age to have care around men's feelings, just from a safety standpoint.

3. But if the objectification makes you feel uncomfortable, then think about that the next time some man buddy of yours starts engaging in the MRA stuff about women.

4. I don't care that she mocks the men that were nasty to her in the article. Seriously? A guy freaking lies his butt of about his age and then facebook stalks her. Ug. There are tools. I am sure you've met a few. Really she's offering very good advice. It isn't just about looks, it's about showing yourself considerate and kindness to another human being you want sexual relations with. How is this shocking? I like casual sex. No way I'm doing some dude who treats me like an inanimate sex toy. I am a person. I have fee fees too. And I need to trust you enough to let you in my pants!!! Men should feel the same? Wouldn't want a woman laughing at Mr. Happy if he won't spring into action.

5. I get... nervous... about a line of conversation to which we tread closely. For a long time, a woman couldn't say no, especially once they were married. No marital rape laws. Of course divorce was expensive and financially devastating. Yes, things have changed over the last forty years. You are right. I can hear you from here. Things have also changed about racial equality but there sure is still some racism out there and the KKK still exists. Everyone's body is their own. And everyone should have the right to say no and not feel pressured or guilted over it. Our bodies are our own. And I know what it feels like to feel pressured into sex you don't want, and how bad you feel afterwards. So I get antsy over the sex question in marriages/relationships. What do we owe one another. I don't want to see women pressured into sex as if by marrying a man she loses her bodily integrity. Ehhhh.....

Complicated and very grey.

Now final question, and I am afraid I am going to raise a djinn by saying it, but I haven't seen Euda in a long time. Did I miss something?

*None of this is woe me. Get me undressed you will have a different and much better opinion. And I like being the surprise.

108
@105. I agree, so how about a little more circumspection about some of the men here who lament all the time that women are lucky because they can get causal sex. I am not turning it into a competition, and I asking a subset of people - who admittedly are feeling very frustrated by something that they want very much - to engage in a thought process about why what they would construe as lucky is not considered so lucky by the recipient.

It's not a competition and it helps improve empathy.

I know I have grown far more empathetic to men stuck in low sex marriages who lament to that here by engaging in the same effort to walk a mile in their shoes.

@103. YMMV. Shockingly enough, there are women who have trouble getting casual sex as well. I of course was speaking to the stereotype rather than the mean little outliers, of which we are all. ;) I wish your friends luck.