Savage Love

Virgin Territory

Comments

1
>>a thumbtack glued to the base of the [butt] plug will inspire your boyfriend to be more focused and precise.

SHRIEK

I don't even have one of those and my bits tried to retract in sympathetic horror, Dan. holy crap.

(I get why you said that... if the guy is accidentally-on-purpose trying to jam it in her ass with zero prep, it's quite painful, and that would be an effective deterrent, but... mercy!)
2
I suspect that VIRGN is more worried that he won't be vagina-blinded by the sexperience of being intimate with a woman. (Thanks, mom!)
3
My own personal sexperience with anal led me to doubt claims of accidental anal penetration, WHAT, as anal penetration always required focus, precision, and proper breathing techniques—in my own sexperience. But listeners of the Savage Lovecast schooled me in Episode 340, and I'm now convinced that accidental anal penetration is something too many women have sexperienced.
I believe that too many women have experienced "accidental" anal penetration, but I don't believe that anal penetration could be accidental (short of some clueless guy who reaaaaally doesn't know his way around female anatomy). A lubed, aroused vagina feel much, much different than an unlubed, cletched ass. But maybe some accidental anal penetrators can chime in with their stories?
4
Accidental anal penetration once? Okay. Twice by the same guy? Maybe, Just maybe. But why didn't he notice there was some resistance? Three times? What an oblivious jerk! Four times!?! WTF, what a dickhead! Either this guy has a penis with minimal girth that "slips" out of vaginas willy nilly, he is just slamming that dick in and might as well be having sex with any receptacle, and/or he can't learn from his experience (i.e., slipping out of a vagina and slamming into an unlubed anus). Or, is he secretly, passive aggressively, or unconsciously doing this because he really wants anal and she's not that interested? Are they having sex in the dark? Is he unfamiliar with anatomy?

If his poor ability to remain on target is innocent and if she stays with the guy, maybe they should change positions so that he could monitor his own dick placement.
5
So, I've been accidentally anally penetrated once, or maybe "accidentally," I don't know. But there was enough natural lube around from all the energetic sex that it wasn't really "slamming into an unlubed anus."

I will say that four times with the same partner seems like a lot. When I hear WHAT say "I can't help but cry" that also makes me wonder if her bf secretly likes seeing her cry, even though she says he feels super guilty. I don't think butt plugs (or thumb tacks) are the answer. But maybe avoiding the position(s) where it tends to happen, until you build more confidence in his intentions? I don't think I've ever heard of it happening in missionary.
6
As for WWWM, it's really no wonder that guys aren't generally willing to sign up for a monogamous committed relationship before assessing sexual compatibility. On the other hand, you can demonstrate a lot of sexual compatibility without PIV. Does she do enthusiastic oral on them, does she masturbate them to orgasm with skill and pleasure? Or does she think sex is nothing more than the guy sticking his dick in her?

I'm struck by her insistence that she has to "trust" these guys. What level of trust does she mean? Trust that they aren't a serial killer? You can figure that out over a couple of public meetings for coffee. Trust that they won't break her heart? That kind of trust you can never get, not fully, unless you only plan on dating machines. (I do like my vibrator...)
7
LW1- I'll be brutal, but only because Dan wasn't' clear enough: Still no sex at the age of 30+, some odd perceptions on sex and life in general, and you wonder why those guys run away?

Lw2- You and LW1 should realize that the best way to find a suitable match is by actively pursuing relationship/s. Find out what works or not and move forward accordingly.
I’m afraid I’m going to be brutal again: “She's special—we have tons of chemistry and she cares about me,” sounds very much like a virgin placing their extremely special assumed-lover on a pedestal, while the pedestalee is very possibly fucking others all along.

LW3- the bf likes anal sex. He has poor communication skills when it comes to discussing his preferences. You should bring it up and talk about what you both want and how to make it work and enjoyable for all involved.
I'll spare you the brutality, but considering what he's been doing to you for some time now he may not be the right person for you.

8
Accidental butt-fuck? Wildly skeptical.
9
LW1 - Stop it with the insufferable notion that sex always has to be emotionally significant. Find a nice guy who's attractive, respectful, and clean, and have sex with him on the third date.

LW2 - Why would she be devastated if she's your first and you break up? Isn't it usually the other way around? You're overplaying your hand here. There's nothing magical about virginity just as there's nothing special about never having gone skydiving. Just do it already.

LW3 - I'm trying to visualize the mechanics here to see if this is a realistic scenario and it seems very unlikely for all of the stars to align and make this an accident. If she were just getting poked in the ass that's one thing, but if this is actual penetration (i.e., "his dick went 2-3 inches into my ass") then I don't buy it. Maybe he wants anal but I think it's also likely that he enjoys her "surprise" reaction. Using a buttplug as a preventative measure seems excessive since this probably happens less than 5% of the time they have sex. I think they've got to discuss how they're fucking incorrectly such that this keeps happening and make modifications to positions and techniques.
10
I don't think Mr. Savage's advice to the first LW is that great. She said flat-out that she's invested in holding off on sex until she finds someone she likes and--this may have been buried--knows she can trust. Trust might be the most important issue. Jumping into something that diametrically opposed to her current strategy and values, sex with strangers, isn't likely to be something that this particular virgin will be willing to try. What EricaP recommends is more likely to be this LW's speed, activity-wise, maybe not oral but something more than kissing, but the real problem is one of two things:

Either this LW has a social or psychological issue that makes it hard for her to connect with people emotionally, and that's why the guys are leaving, or she's only dating guys who expect to have sex shortly, who interpret "she hasn't had sex with me in two weeks" as "she doesn't like me" or just don't feel like waiting for sex.

Problem #1 isn't going to be solved here. Problem #2: Meet guys from outside the hookup culture. Are you picking them all up at clubs? Stop. Are you picking them all up at the same website? Stop.
11
@6 EricaP, yeah serial killers, but maybe trust that he's being sincere, that not going to run around and tell all her friends and coworkers what a big slut she was or maybe trust that he's not just pretending to be nice to her so he can sleep with her and planning to drop her like a hot potato right after. Maybe she had a friend in high school or college who had a guy pull one of those; plenty of women do.
12
Once I got more into dating, my low self-esteem coupled with the fact that I've basically decided I want to be in a monogamous committed relationship with a guy before having sex, relationships just never happened.
I would not enter a monogamous committed relationship before having sex, and I don't know many people who would. WWWM may have a different definition of "monogamy" than I do, but for me it includes "not fucking other people." I think it is absurd to demand that someone not fuck other people when you're not fucking them yourself. That's like asking someone not to eat with anyone else, while not eating with them yourself. Or like asking someone not to dance with anyone else, while not dancing with them yourself. Sure a person can eat/dance alone now and then, but we're socially wired to want to do this kind of stuff with others.

Also, sexual compatibility is important. It's hard to commit to someone monogamously-- which again means not fucking other people-- when you don't know what the fucking is like. To make another food analogy: that's like agreeing to only eat at one restaurant for the foreseeable future, without having ever eaten at that restaurant. How do you know you'll like the food?

So I agree with Dan here. WWWM is operating under some misguided notions about sex and sexual exclusivity. There's nothing special or magical about sex, and the fastest way to realize that is to go out and have it.
13
This guy may well be a jerk, but accidental anal happens. Twice that I can remember for sure with me as the accidental penetrator. With a well-lubricated vagina, the anus is also often lubricated (depends on the woman, how long you've been going at it, how sweaty things are, etc.). Different anuses also have different levels of relaxation/"tightness" during sex.

With some women, maybe it never could be an accident. With others, if pretty easily can be. Hell, I once dated a woman whose bowels relaxed at the sound of my voice. She also lubricated well. I don't remember it happening by accident, but it could have and would not have been a big deal with her, so I don't rule it out. Also, if (after careful washing) you've switched to vaginal after anal, it can be almost hard to avoid if you slip out. That was one of my incidents. Some people just gape after anal and it can be a huge target.

The other time I can remember for sure I was suspected/accused of doing it deliberately. She was wrong. It really was an accident, but I understood her suspicion. Perhaps if I'd been sober, I wouldn't have missed, but if we'd been sober, we probably wouldn't have been having sex at all. She was probably a Kinsey scale 5.7 lesbian, who was trying to convince herself that she was bi to appease her parents. A lousy evening for all involved.

BTW, in the anal-back-to-vaginal-back-to-accidental-anal incident: No, I didn't think the first switch was a good idea and it didn't turn out to be. I don't recommend that you try that switch at home unless there are condoms involved. UTIs are no fun.
14
Unless you're sure the guy's doing it deliberately, a tack seems excessive. Maybe just some coarse sandpaper stuck to the end of the butt plug would do the trick. They even sell self-adhesive sandpaper to make it easier to apply.

Seriously, avoiding positions where this can happen is probably a better solution than a butt plug, with or without pins or sandpaper.
15
@13 your points are all well and good but the LW said it happened 4x. They have been together for over a year. It's a logical assumption that they've had PIV more than the 4x he's slipped out of her vagina and "accidentally" penetrated her anus. At this point, having told him she doesn't really like anal and the fact that he should be familiar with all the anatomical landmarks, he is being, at best, inconsiderate and not taking care to avoid anal penetration and, at worst, purposely jamming his penis where it was not invited.

She didn't mention if they were under the influence any or all of those times but if they were, that "accidental" anal penetration might have had a sobering effect.

I don't think it's a far stretch to assume that the LW and her boyfriend are relatively young. Perhaps they are even victims of an educational system that does not include SexEd or perhaps one that fires teachers for using the correct anatomical terms for genitalia (eg, Battlecreek, MI). However, no matter what their ages or the extent of their SexEd, they probably could both use a refresher in the definition of "consent."
16
Been thinking about WWWM. Maybe she'd do well in a situation in which she could get to know guys for long periods outside of a romantic relationship before suggesting they enter one (meet guys at a volunteer organization or join some kind of athletic group that's mostly guys), but that makes me wonder about a female version of Nice Guy syndrome. She'd basically be pretending to be just a friend (or actually being a friend and pretending not to be anything else) while surreptitiously evaluating guys for Mr. Right-ness.

Thoughts on whether it'd work? Thoughts on the ethics of it?
17
LW1: Guys are waaaaay overrated. What you need are some cats.

18
LW2: I've dated enough and had enough fun to continue being a happy, normal, socially competent guy, much to the disbelief of my various knuckle-dragging, vagina-blinded pals.

Sorry, I'm going to have to side with your pals on this one.
19
Anal sex is NOT to be entrusted to 'whoops!'

The notion that anal is an ordeal to be endured by 50% of the participants is 100% toxic. The writer needs to
a) be secure in not having any 'surprise' pokes
b) have a chance to develop an erotic sensibility of her own, such that...someday...she may be ready to ASK her partner to fuck her ass, AND be ready to do so safely and pleasurably.
20
WWWM - These two problems, that your relationships end after a few months, and that you haven't been able to trust a guy enough to let him massage your insides, are likely related... either you are not attracted trustworthy guys, or you can't trust trustworthy guys. Can you get yourself off, can you explain to guys how your body works, what you like? Does manual sex work? Dry humping? Oral? If you don't do any of the above, and no PIV... do you think you're asexual? There are asexual guys out there.. Also sexually skilled guys who would find devirginizing you an interesting challenge.. not to be confused with the guys who think virgins are so naive that they'll put up with bad sex.. Maybe you have to identify why you are so afraid to have sex (STIs? pregnancy? church family or social stigma? other?) and confront that fear head on before you can make a plan to have sex? If not with depressed-guy, with a hand-picked devirginizer you've advertised very specifically for? And.. I can't figure out if you're happy or sad that you waited.. there seems to be both self pity (low self esteem) and pride (not going to take a leap now after all the hard work of waiting) about the decision.

VIRGN - Not only am I concerned about her feelings if things don't work out, but I'm also concerned that I might become vagina-blinded
Don't make her decisions for her. She can decide if she wants to risk being penis-blinded or not. And kudos for the love-caution.. Love can make people fools.. Just like any other source of dopamine.. the good feeling feels like it's good for you even when it's hurting your life.. but, if you can successfully exercise some control over porn viewing.. if you can take breaks or stop for awhile and otherwise not let it take over your life.. you're already exercising the exact same sort of self control that will prevent you from doing stupid shit just because you're getting off with a woman.. a real live person can be a little more intense is all..

WHAT - Accidentally-stick-it-in-the-ass once, shame on him. Accidentally-stick-it-in-the-ass twice, shame on you. Four times? Sorry, but you're a doormat or masochist. Dump guys who can't be considerate about sex, or you'll start to hate sex with everyone, not just him. Although you might like to fit in with the media-driven "women hate sex" norm, I really doubt it's much fun.

Does it really slip out for other women during good sex? I know I get a death grip when I'm excited and it might be hard to stay in there, but the guys I've been with have seemed to dislike the interruption of slipping out and figure out how to correct for it.. also I don't think I've ever seen a guy masturbate by taking his hand the whole way off his penis each stroke... they seem to like constant contact (as do I)... I am having a hard time seeing how this could be accidental, although I tried to give the benefit of the doubt by assuming incompetence instead of maliciousness. (I've never had this happen but I think a sharp jab in the ass would be well matched by a sharp slap across the cheek, should it happen in the future)
21
@3 I've accidentally entered a woman's butt after slipping out a couple of times, when there was lots of lube all around and I was too eager to get back into the action after slipping out. I did immediately realize what was happening as soon as I started to enter and pulled right back out and apologized. So it's not hard for me to imagine others making a similar mistake. However if the guy doesn't immediately realize he's entered the wrong hole, or it keeps happening, then I would start to get suspicious that it's intentional.
22
No!! WWWD don't go there with depressed guy! If he's depressed there are probably other issues there that will also attach themselves to you if you screw him.
Do what YOU are comfortable with, and you don't have to conform with what other people's ideas of normal are! :)
23
WWWM-- It's not just your experience. In the world at large, there are 2 extremes. There is, on the one hand, this idea that one has to be in the ultimate committed monogamous relationship, marriage, before one can do any sexual exploration at all, and there is, on the other, this idea that one has to be willing to jump straight to penetrative sex from the get-go before getting to know one's partner emotionally in some friendly, trustworthy way. No wonder women get drunk before hooking up. I'm going to give some advice to help you negotiate a middle ground that works for you. You mentioned having been kissed, and you mentioned being a virgin. You haven't said what, if anything, you've done between those points. My advice is to go in steps from kissing to as far as you (and he) want.

First, you've dated 30 guys. Give yourself some credit for that. Don't see that as 30 failed dates that didn't progress. See it as 30 wonderful chances to get to know people and to get some experience. Count those 30 as on the plus side.

Like Dan, I can't possibly know why those guys didn't ask you out past the 2nd month, but I'd guess it was either that you came across as too needy, too interested (in the whole commitment/relationship shebang), or that they didn't sense that you were interested enough; you showed no enthusiasm (for sex). Did I say either? Could be both.

So switch things up. For that first part of the date while you're talking over dinner, emphasize how independent you are, how happy you are with your single status. Don't do this overtly. Just reference the fun things you've done with your friends, how fulfilling you find your job, the enjoyable things you do in your spare time. Mention dogs. Dogs are good. Also physical sports type things you enjoy like biking or swimming. You want to come across as confident and happy, like you're fitting him into an already good life, not like you desperately need him or anyone to complete you.

Now for the sex part: wear something reasonably revealing. If he accidentally touches you, make sure you don't flinch or pull away. At the end of the night, if goes to kiss you, kiss back. Move towards him. When you're alone, reach towards him, above the waist first. Move a kiss on the cheek to one on the lips. Then try kissing down his neck to his chest. Naturally you have to be aware if you're getting the vibe that he wants out of there. You don't want to do anything without consent. He should never be in a position where he feels he can't gather up his shoes and shirt and walk out the door. Rub him. It sounds funny to put this so explicitly, but feel his chest, the muscles in his arm. Use varying amounts of pressure and watch his reactions. He'll probably communicate what feels good. Also, while you're being fairly forward, wait for him to progress things also. Does he take off his own shirt? Great, then take off yours. Let him reach to take off your bra or to unbuckle his belt. You don't have to do all this on the first date, but you should do some of this on the first few dates. Nothing wrong with taking it slow.

I'm not suggesting that this advice is the magic needed to win you that perfect trusting relationship. (If I had the magic for that, you can bet I'd be richer than I am and wouldn't be hanging around comments columns.) But this might help you lose your virginity. And you probably know this, but first experiences aren't usually wonderful, or they're not as wonderful as they're going to get later, but you have to jump in somewhere.

24
LW 3: I would just say dump him and find a better sex partner. Four times?! No, it's not accidental at that point, he's being manipulative and selfish and does not care about you at all. Do you also have kind of crappy sex? Does he also tend to not help you finish during sex? He has made you scared of sex! What has he done to make you feel better? Dude, get out of that relationship, there are definitely guys out there better at fucking than this selfish douchecanoe.

I do think that the concept of anal sex as something women just "tolerate" or whatever is at play here. Anecdotally, I've enjoyed anal, and although I've had partners mention it as something they would enjoy, it has always been my call to 1) initiate and 2) to guide (more lube, what angle, how fast, etc). And every single one of these guys enjoyed it as well, certainly part of it because it felt good, but part of it also because these were guys who derived pleasure from seeing how much pleasure they gave their partner. If that's the kind of sexual relationship you want, dump this selfish assbutt who is at best only using you as various holes to put his dick into and at worst deriving pleasure from your thoroughly nonconsenual pain and find one of those guys instead. I swear they're out there, I've found a whole bunch.
25
@5: It's happened to me in missionary, more than once.
26
I can totally understand accidental buttsechs, if he's using a jackhammer motion. More likelihood of slipping out, more likelihood of inadvertent penetration if you're pumping hard and fast with long strokes.

31 year-old virgin, you're kind of stuck in a Catch-22. Tell guys you're a 31 year old virgin, and many will get understandably nervous at the prospect of being the one to deflower you after all that build-up. Don't tell guys you're a virgin, and they'll think your reticence at going to bed is a sign of disinterest or that you're using them (dating for dinner or what-have-you).

Late-20's virgin, why the heck would she be more devastated by a break-up if she knew you were a virgin? Projecting, much?

I think Nike has a slogan that's applicable, here.
27
P.S. In missionary, the thumb tack would Jan him in the balls. In doggy style, it would hit him in the pubic bone. It's not encouraging good aim. It's a deterrent for sex altogether.
28
Accidental buttsecks happens to me quite a lot, but never for so long or with so much force that it hurts. Using a buttplug could be avoided by the boyfriend learning better control. Or avoiding that position. If the LW's boyfriend has been telling her these two other options aren't feasible, I'd move straight to the thumbtack.
29
Virgin #1 has a great deal of faith in Mr Savage's powers of divination. That just feels significant here, for some reason that hasn't crystallized yet.
30
Fichu and Philiphile both offered good advice, I think. Some middle ground would probably leave WWWM better off. Probably her dates too.
31
@23 Good post about extremes. I think it's a shame we've abandoned the "bases" of kissing, making out, and petting with a new partner instead of jumping right to intercourse.
32
WWWM: How can you be monogamous before having sex? It's an oxymoron. I'm not the tiniest bit surprised that 30 out of 30 guys have made it no longer than a couple of months before realising that no sex was forthcoming and jumping ship, harsh as that may sound. And waiting for someone "she knows she can trust"? You can't ever know you can trust someone -- though I like DRF @11's interpretation of "trust." I'm sure WWWM wrote to Dan because she wanted someone, anyone, to overrule her upbringing and tell her it's okay to just get laid already. Hope she takes his advice, and hope the lucky guy is kind to her.

VIRGIN: Your girlfriend will be flattered she was your first, and years from now, after you've both moved on, she'll treasure the memory. She won't be "devastated," trust me on this. And how to avoid doing something impulsive in a moment of "vagina blindness"? Speak with her and agree to no big commitments until (at least) the two-year mark in your relationship. See, I didn't say five. :)

WHAT: I'm with @4. It's plausible that he has a small penis, she makes a lot of lube, and he goes at it jackhammer-fashion with his short cock going all the way in and all the way out on each stroke (she says "passionate sex"). It's also possible her anus is unusually close to her vagina. As to "how would he not notice," I'm sure she screamed in pain on the first thrust, before he even had a chance to notice. Yes, it's also possible he's a rapist douchebag, though WHAT says he feels "super guilty" (rapist douchebag actor?). Changing positions and slowing down the "passionate" thrusting may help.
33
IHSN @12: "There's nothing special or magical about sex"
Oh, I couldn't disagree more. But that's the argument FOR having sex, not against!

DRF @16: Hmm, I don't think a strategy of getting to know people really well as friends first and then approaching them to take things further is the definition of "Nice Guy Syndrome." With your advice, WWWM would get to know men and then ask them out once she decided they were dating material. In Nice Guy Syndrome, the guy continues to act friendly long after he knows he wants more, but lacks the courage to do anything about it -- and, crucially, develops the expectation that the target of his unspoken affections owes him affection in return. If the guy (or girl) takes rejection on the chin and continues to be friends, I think that's just the normal course of getting to know people. I agree if trust is important to WWWM, she's a lot more likely to find it by turning friends into lovers than by joining Tinder.

Chandira @22: Good point! Someone who's depressed probably can't be "trusted" in the way WWWM wants someone she can "trust," just because their disease can spur them to do things like withdraw emotionally, or prevent them from being able to support her when she needs it most. Choosing Depressed Guy as her first will probably be a recipe for a very stormy first relationship and exactly the kind of emotional scarring she's avoided for the past decade.
34
31-Cynara-- We should start a movement to bring back bases!
A question for everyone. (I'm using pronouns like I'm talking to straight men, but I hope others will weigh in.) Would that work for you? Assume you're out of your teens and dating. You hope to find someone for a long term relationship that certainly includes sex but also is romantic, friendly, etc. For the first several dates, the woman seems to be into you, but she's only willing to kiss you goodnight. After that, she wants to stop after fooling around above the waist. And so on.

What do you think? Do you feel teased and conclude she's psycho? Do you wonder what's wrong with her and guess that she's maybe hiding a problem? Do you assume she'll never want to have sex with you, give up, and move on to someone else? Or does anything about this schedule seem okay to you?
35
WHAT - Physically, I don't think that whole-way-out, then back in sex can work unless she is gaping and bored, thinking of England.. in or out feels about the same. I mean, I think all vaginas get grippy when they are excited, impeding that sort of technique. So the guy is bad at sex. The only way guys get good at sex is when a woman opens her damn mouth and says "it's not going to happen unless it's good for me". So I changed my mind.. DON'T DUMP HIM! You created that monster, don't fob him off for the rest of us to fix now. Just.. y'know.. do that other female norm of pushing for a sexless relationship if you don't want tearful sex I guess. If you're used to bad sex, sexless appears to be a step up.

Re: befriend guys until you find a match... I think this ignores WWWM's fear of sex. She wants to have sex. But something unnamed is holding her back. The only thing she mentions is being unable to trust guys, but since a lot of guys like to have mutually enjoyable sex, I think that says more about her, that she has other fears preventing trust... maybe she is afraid of being obsessed with penis and becoming a doormat? Sometimes simply naming your fears can be difficult, but it's the first step to overcoming them.
36
35- Philophile-- But does WWWM fear sex? She says she has low self-esteem and wants to be in a committed monogamous relationship first. She doesn't mention fear. I don't get the sense that she's afraid in the sense of a phobia. I think that if she's afraid, it's the way any of us combine fear and excitement. Maybe I'm projecting my own feelings from when I was a 17 year old virgin and guessing her feelings as a 30 year old virgin must be similar. I wanted to feel love for my first time. I didn't know much about attraction beyond my wild--and silent-- crushes. I was apprehensive about stepping out into something so new, but I had no solid idea of what I was afraid of. In the end, nothing horrible happened except that the experience, while exciting in the sense that yay!-I-did-it, that great feeling of having taken a step towards adult life, was a let down.

The difference between me and WWWM? I can name some things about guilt, parental and societal expectation, but mostly I was lucky enough to have a (teenage) boy who kept pushing in a way that turned me on but who stopped when I gave a solid no. WWWM has guys who ghost her after 2 months.
37
F @34 Seems wonderful to me.
38
LW1 is looking at her life story like she's stuck at this one step. Hang on, shouldn't I be married by now, why are these boys just not getting on board here. Scratches head.
She has a good career etc, maybe until she can shake off all those layers of shoulds, that's perhaps where she focus her energies.
39
I've experienced accidental anal penetration once. It was absolutely accidental, and happened in a semi-missionary position during serious hard thrusting associated with a forced-sex scene (meaning I wasn't exactly holding still while he aimed). It hurt like hell, and he noticed immediately my pain (although he hadn't noticed why--I'm not sure it's *always* 100% obvious if there's lube and the thrust is fast) and stopped the scene (good man); I explained, he apologized, we recovered and continued.

So I believe it can happen, and I believe it can happen accidentally, and I believe it can happen in missionary, assuming some serious momentum is going on. Four times does seem like a lot, but maybe they have an (otherwise) favorite position/style that just lends itself to that. I'd be curious to hear if it has always been in the same position, during the same style of sex. If so, the answer seems obvious. If not, then I'd start to have question marks floating around.
40
Ms Fan @32 - Was "lucky guy" just a turn of phrase, or do you really see something in the letter that suggests ample compensation for whoever manages to jump through V1's collection of hoops? Whatever the gendre or orientation of such a LW1, I'd guess that the applicable sentiment to such a person's first partner would be gratitude over "taking one for the team".

As for Mr Savage's response, I think that just shows the limitations of his basic philosophy of erring on the side of the b*** ***.

But I have come up with what I shall call the Bennet Award, recalling Elizabeth's giving Jane leave to like Mr Bingley, "...You have liked many a stupider person." She goes on, "Oh! you are a great deal too apt, you know, to like people in general..." and later clarifies, "...With your good sense, to be so blind to the follies and nonsense of others! Affectation of candour is common enough - one meets it everywhere. But to be candid without ostentation or design - to take the good of everybody's character and make it still better, and say nothing of the bad - belongs to you alone." (That's the first time I can recall making a reference to that passage.) I think I ought to bestow the first Bennet Award retroactively on Ms Cute.
41
Crinoline [36] - I think that if she's afraid, it's the way any of us combine fear and excitement.
Like when you are getting ready to ride a rollercoaster? The difference is, she keeps hopping out of line, or standing still while the rest of the line moves forward. Her restraint (fear) must be more than her motivation (excitement about romance). And she seems to crave traditional, sexual romance; she is not advertising for asexuals.

I have lots of guesses. Maybe she's attracted to jerks so she has no problem saying "I won't have sex with you but you can't have sex with anyone else either." Maybe she is sending the same kind of mixed messages that permeate her letter, in her relationships.. I want sex.. but I don't.. I can't explain further.. just hold on.. and after a few months they get sick of being played the fool.

I think it's teasing if you seem to be promising what you cannot deliver... slow progress is fine if it doesn't stop or go backwards...

I guess I would specifically advise that she a) take out an ad for a devirginizer and try to have sex with the best respondent or b) keep dating but give the next guy a specific time when she's willing to have sex up front on the first date... 2 weeks.. or 3 months (so it's her longest relationship).. then stick to it or break up and stop dating until she can conquer her fears.

I also loved your advice about how to start walking around the bases so that you're comfortable having sex with a guy you like. Read a bit like a romance novel.

And.. even if she has bad sex, at least she can tell the next guy "I don't like it when guys do X" with confidence, instead of the tongue tied cluelessness she's stuck with now.
42
Fichu @34: As a non-straight non-man, I don't like the idea of going back to 1950s style rules for how far people can go on dates. So we're on date two or three, I want to fuck, he wants to fuck, but we have to stop after some breast fondling and each go home and have a frustrating masturbation session instead? Because... someone like WWWM isn't comfortable having sex without establishing some really high level of "trust"?

I don't like the idea of imposing artificial restrictions on desire. I vote have sex when you are ready to have sex, generally or with that specific person. If Person A wants sex a few dates in and Person B wants to move slowly through the bases, then they're probably not compatible anyway. They'll end up being the married couple where one is writing to Dan because their sex drive is so much higher than their spouse's and they're so frustrated they want permission to cheat.

Philo @35: I can't tell whether the end of your first paragraph serious or joking.

Venn @40: "Lucky guy" was more a turn of phrase, but I feel most people (of all genders) would feel honoured to be somebody's first sexual partner. Despite the near guarantee that a virgin is probably going to be a pretty crap lay. :)
44
@Fichu: We should start a movement to bring back bases!

The bases seem to be alive and well among contemporary Seattle middle-schoolers.

What do you think?

I don't think there's any mystery why people would quickly lose interest in dating someone who doesn't want to have sex.

If she simply wouldn't go past 2nd base with me and offered no explanation, I'd eventually become bored, annoyed, figure she was either not into me or had some serious hangups about sex, and stop returning calls. (Actually, I'd ask her what was up, but most men probably wouldn't.)

If she shared with me her ideas about sex, I'd definitely break up with her because we're fundamentally incompatible - she might as well tell me she's Christian or a Republican.

Also, most 31 year-old women could write the book on how to seduce a man as well as how men can please them (you had a very nice paragraph in your first post). They've gotten over their inhibitions, they know their sexual power, they know what they like, and they've gotten over any paranoid or kooky ideas about male sexuality.

The LW, in contrast, has no experience, is full of Catholic guilt, she's sexually inhibited, likely has a low libido (or it would have won out by now), probably doesn't even masturbate, and harbors archaic ideas about the value of her sexuality. She sounds to me like the type of woman who's just going to lie there. Why would a grown man wait around for months for that kind of sex?

I do like your advice about taking the initiative, and I think it would work if she could get over her hangups and follow it.
45
It seems like female virginity is always framed as voluntary, and I don't like that. I'm a 28 year old female virgin, and it's not by choice. It's not because I want to find some special guy. I've pretty clearly pursued some guys who were attracted to me. I even considered sleeping with a guy who said he only wanted to be my fuck buddy because he's desperate, and he's not attracted to me because I'm obese. I'm not scared by men, I have a lot of male friends. However it's hard to find anyone who is attracted to me and the older I get the more likely it is I'll be alone forever.

#NotAllFemaleVirgins
46
@WHAT - While I am also skeptical of the possibility of 'accidental' anal penetration, perhaps you guys should try switching to a different position? Some body configurations make the butt more accessible, some less... maybe you could try being on top (and therefore more in control of speed/direction) for awhile. Maybe table the position that brings about these 'accidental' penetrations for a couple months until he gets the picture, that the positions he likes best are a privilege, not a right, and if he can't handle them carefully and responsibly then he doesn't get 'em.
47
TLC @45: I'm sorry to read your story. There are a lot of guys out there who are into big women, seriously. I'm sure there are dating sites for chubbies and chasers, there are dating sites for every other preference! Good luck!

Jade @46: This has happened four times in a year, so tabling a certain position "for a couple of months" is likely to result in the same frequency of accidental anal as she's experiencing now. I'm pretty confident it won't happen with her on top, but like most heteros, they probably like to change things up a bit.

If she's willing to wear a butt plug, maybe she'd be willing to do some more (solo or partnered) anal exploration so that if the problem isn't easily solved, it won't be quite as painful when it does happen?
49
Brutality revisited
LW1&2:
Your expectations and the way you deal with them are at a very immature undeveloped state.
The road to a reliable long-term relationship/s is paved by trials and errors, no way around it.
And make no mistakes, everyone has issues: religion, mom, and so many more.

It’s ok to be happy and content about your non-action decisions. Yet telling us how it makes you superior to others, especially in LW2’s case, tells me mom is not the only issue.

There’s still hope though. You came here asking for advice, not the Catholic Church nor mom, and I suspect you are looking for a straightforward one.

Again, the only way to wash that thick layer of cow’s manure you and others wrapped around yourselves can only be achieved once you jump in the water and start swimming.
50
From last week, @203 sb53: You're never too old! You're a kid like this Roadrunner-legged, ultra-maroon. Ahhh.... the blessed insanity of Warner Brothers and Cocoa Puffs--quite the Saturday morning prerequisite way back when I once had no worries about reading the labels (who at our age did back then?).

Thank you, Dan, LWs, and commenters, for another week of Savage Love and Virgin Territory.
51
Sean @44: I'm with you. If someone (regardless of gender) persistently didn't want to have sex with me, I'd conclude that either they didn't like me or they didn't like sex, either of which is a dealbreaker.

Fichu @36: I can think of another huge difference between you and WWWM. You were 17. She is 31. "Teenage boys" are (rightly or wrongly) brought up expecting their girlfriends to need some persuasion, and I'm glad your boy was good enough to take "not yet" for an answer. I'm assuming WWWM isn't dating teenage boys.
52
My impression is that Fichu's "bases" idea does not mean "persistently not wanting to have sex" but rather "build up to it slowly". Which to me sounds nice.
53
WWWM - you need to lose your virginity and start a sex life ASAP. Forget about having any kind of a serious relationship until you first do that. Here's my guess at why you've never had a serious boyfriend: at 21 when you had your first kiss, most of the guys you were dating were already sexually experienced and unwilling to commit to someone who wasn't sexually available (or at least not sexually available without a bunch of relationship oriented strings/preconditions). As you have gotten older this problem has only gotten more extreme. At 31 you are most likely dating men 35 and older. Almost nobody that age is going to be willing to deal with the emotional baggage of being your first sexual partner in the context of a committed relationship where the commitment must come first and the sex second. Get over the idea that your first sexual experience must be in the context of a serious relationship & just get started with some NSA sex.
54
I think that WWWM, VIRGN, and TheLastComment @45 are all placing a high level of importance on virginity and on the mystical status of losing it and "first times," which is not totally unexpected or unusual, given our culture. Part of me wants to tell them to not place so much importance on it, because at this point, still being a virgin has become a part of their identities and not one that is bringing them any happiness. I think they've invested virginity and the loss of it and who should be the one to make that happen with so much significance that it's getting in their ways.

WWWM seems to want to lose her virginity to someone for whom she feels something special, who seems to be planning on sticking around in some sort of a serious, committed boyfriend-y way, and I can understand wanting that, but perhaps she should consider what she means when she says "I've waited this long, so I'm not going to jump into the sack with just anyone without knowing that I can at least trust them." What does she have to trust them to about, how long does it take to establish that trust, and what does a man need to do to earn it? DRF's ideas @11 are good guesses, but I'd challenge herself. Okay, so what if all he wants is to fuck her? If she's viewing her virginity as burdensome, maybe it would be a good strategy to screen for psychos and pick someone who doesn't appear to be one with whom there is some mutual attraction, and just jump in the sack. She might be so relieved at having gotten that Big Moment out of the way that she can relax.

55
While I was dithering, Robby was writing a way better comment than I came out with.
Yes, that's it, exactly.

WWWM, virginity isn't such a big deal. It isn't a "gift" to be given to someone special. It's just a state of being. You've done it. You can be through with it.

Sex is fun and worth having just for the sheer fun of it. It doesn't have to be an expression of love;it doesn't have to mean anything.
Although you should be prepared that the first few times you have sex are not going to be the way sex feels/is later on. This is something that gets better with practice. So start now, not with Mr. Depressed, but maybe a friend of a friend, or someone you meet online, and start getting some practice under your belt.
56
Letter #2 made me laugh. It is so funny when guys who can't get laid rationalize it as some intellectual endeavor, and demean guys who are getting what they want, but can't have.

I guarantee you that guy's friends want him to get laid so bad so he will stop talking about his sanctified dry dick and how woke he is for not ever getting laid.
57
53-Robby-- I want to like your advice, but recall: In her letter, she says the guys ghost on her some time before they've been dating for 8 weeks. Some part of the problem is that she's waiting for that good monogamous relationship with trust. The other part is that the guys are bailing. Or things are fizzling. I do like the idea of just choosing someone who's not crazy and going for it, but how is she to do that if he doesn't take the lead and she doesn't know how? She does need to communicate that she wants some NSA sex. Fine, many guys will go for that. Then she also needs to communicate that she's inexperienced and expects him to do all the work of turning her on-- except she won't be telling him what turns her on because she doesn't know. This is a situation where one needs experience to get experience.

The letter strikes me as so sad. WWWM doesn't sound any more neurotic than I was as a teenager. Being that neurotic (scared, undecisive, not knowing what I wanted, a new crush every day, being both forward and coy) comes with the territory of teenagerhood. I said before that I got lucky, but if I hadn't, I could be writing that letter. (Except WWWM sounds way more successful and independent in her work and living on her own.) It's like some of us are saying that because WWWM was unlucky once, or maybe her luck is a result of her own bad decisions when she was still in her teens, it's all over for her and she can never turn things around.

I'd like to reassure WWWM that friendship after sex is possible so Somewhat Depressed Guy might be a good bet.

I want to recommend porn for her, but that gives wildly unlikely images of what first sex is like. Does anyone know of some sort of guide that could help, some sort of remedial sex primer? So much of sex education is about how NOT to have sex. Is there something she could read, some romance novel, that would go into detail on sexual exploration for beginners?
58
WWWM – Let me add to the chorus advising you, all from our own experience, to stop building up your First Time as some magical unicorn made of koalas; almost nobody gets this.
You can congratulate yourself if you land a nice fella who'll be sensitive to your virgin status, you should get that 'and we'll have a true connection and a monogamous relationship that's going somewhere!' right the fuck out of your head, or into a time machine, back to high school, when many people did indeed think that way. Feel free to ask a few how that turned out.
(In my Archer voice) – Look, Mary, you gotta listen to me.
Unless you're insanely hot, or one of just a couple of women in an isolated mining town or something, you have a big hill to climb with the low-self-esteem virgin thing, which as others have noted likely comes with a raft of other...conservative viewpoints. Asking a guy to make a monogamous commitment beforehand makes this hill damn near vertical. Why the fuck would he? By their 30's, most people have been in, then out of relationships that didn't work (at least in part) d/t the sex, and you're asking him to buy a pussy in a poke? GTFO.
If you're bone-jarringly attractive, and maybe give a blowjob with some prostate-tickle action that makes him scream like Jason's chasing him with a chainsaw, you know, draining those batt'ries/filling him up on bread and sides, well, you might have a shot at it. Is that the case? Do you give dynamite head? Do tell us more...
When I was a younger guy, part of the allure of older women, around 30 or so, was that you didn't get a bunch of the bullshit that you got with young girls; Seandr did a nice sum-up in #44. By the time we got to our thirties ourselves, men and women, the idea that losing one's virginity would be an epic occasion had almost universally become a source of amusement, not quite like believing in Santa but up there.
So, you're not to blame for your upbringing, but your current ideas will not serve you well. If you check out any of the numerous 'I was/we were virgins on our wedding night, and here's where it all went to hell' that have posted to SL, you'll get a glimpse of where you're heading.

LW2 – If you can, at any time in the future, produce a woman who took your sterling virginity and was emotionally freighted by the act, I will in turn produce a yeti.
They say the people you pass on the way up, are the ones you'll meet again on your way down. In other news, those you mock for their sex-having ways before you get any yourself, will be the ones splitting their sides at the news of your wedding, “A six week engagement? Man, Virge was one thirsty motherfucker!”
59


Fichu @ 57
I suspect her non-developed attitude towards sex is also the case with other aspects of dating and relationships in general.
“The letter strikes me as so sad.” Same here.
60
@54 I'm not invested in my virginity and it's not part of my identity. Like I said I've actively tried to lose my virginity and I was so desperate I almost slept with a guy I don't even like and who doesn't like me, out of mutual desperation. Of course I didn't actually do this but the fact that I was willing to consider it is proof enough to me that I don't really want to be a virgin. I just want someone who likes me and who isn't a rapist.

Like I said in my last post, I'm frustrated by the idea that female virginity is voluntary. Maybe it is for most people but not everyone was raised Catholic and wants to be deprived.
61
Fichu @57: Recall: Some of the two-months-tops relationships end because the guys ghost her. Some fizzle and some mutually don't work out. Sounds pretty par for the course as far as dating goes.

"She does need to communicate that she wants some NSA sex. Fine, many guys will go for that. Then she also needs to communicate that she's inexperienced and expects him to do all the work of turning her on-- except she won't be telling him what turns her on because she doesn't know."

This doesn't make much sense to me. A virgin is incapable of being turned on? Sure, people differ, but there are a few basics that pretty much work on most people. It's not as if there is some magic word he will need to guess. He could start with the vanilla basics, and if she's not digging whatever he's doing she can speak up and say so. It's not rocket science.

I don't think NSA sex is the way to go here; I do think she's better off having sex with someone she actually likes, she just needs to lower the bar a bit on "someone I can trust" and stop acting as if her virginity is a Ming vase. It's sex; most people do it. It probably won't be that great the first time. But without a first time, there won't be an amazing 20th time.
62
Hate to break this to you, WHAT, but he'll be getting off on the buttplug thing too. That *was* his idea, yes?

After four times: he's into anal sex, and he's not into consent.
64
Haven't read the thread - or clicked the link - so excuse me if I'm repeating things others have said or exposing my own ignorance. But seriously I have a really hard time understanding how an anus can be accidentally penetrated. Accidents do happen during vigorous sex, and sometimes a penis will withdraw completely from the vagina and slam into the butt. Maybe I have the butthole of steel (who would have guessed?) but this has happened to
me more than once and the penis in question has always bounced right off. Don't get me wrong - it's uncomfortable and elicits a loud "Ouch! Be careful!" In the moment, but it has never resulted in actual anal penetration. Conversely, when anal penetration is what we are going for, it always requires a few minutes of deliberate relaxation on my part and a fair amount of patience (and lube) on his. I am willing to believe that accidental anal penetration happens occasionally, but it strikes me as likely that many (or most) of those incidents are "accidental" in name only. Tell a motherfucker to get control of his cock or it's not coming anywhere near you again.
66
@60 TheLastComment: Have you considered hiring a male escort? Seems an easy way to get rid of the big V and make sure it's a pleasant experience. Note I said "escort" and not "prostitute": someone who takes you to a nice dinner, talks about how sexy you are the whole time, then takes you home and fucks your brains out. Or whatever series of events you'd like.

This is not in any way a ding on your fuckability. There are lots of guys into heavier ladies who would *love* to nail you. (Seriously: do a search on BBW porn. It's made for a reason!) Those guys are just harder to find, and it's even harder to find one of those guys whom *you're* into. Hiring an escort can streamline that whole process. It's a decision of convenience, not necessity.

Anyway, just something to consider.
68
Mary, you might have been a bit put off by the tenor of SL commenters, so maybe we can give you some perspective into your situation that's a little less 'drop them draws and get on all faws.' I give you

Maiden in the City
Now in Glorious Panavision!

Our scene opens with our plucky heroine in the offices of the Goodheart Placement Agency. Charles Goodheart, white-haired, avuncular man in his sixties, sits behind a desk, the Manhattan skyline behind him.

Charles – So, Mary, you're looking to start work. And not just any work, I see, but starting at the executive level!
Mary – Why, yes Sir! I was brought up on stories of young Horatio Alger in the mailroom, and the president of the company comes through that day, and says, 'Young man, I just now met you, but I like the cut of your jib, sir! How does a corner office sound? And here is my beautiful, accomplished daughter! Say hello, my dear...'
And I feel like I can go right to the top, sir, right off the bat! Why wait around?
Charles - (looks down at hands on desk- Well, yes...but...Mary, those are more stories than reality...you see, most companies tend to promote from within, and they're not likely to make you an executive right away, unless you have a truly outstanding resume...
Most companies have found that when they've promoted too fast, just to get someone in that slot, it doesn't work out well.
Now, pardon me, but it says here, that you're adverse to doing..public speaking? That you refuse to do it 'until it feels right, which may well be for more than two months.' And that once hired, you wish them to stop all hiring for your position?
Mary – Sir, that's correct.
Charles begins cleaning glasses with silk hankerchief, – Mary, you must understand, that having a...regular public speaker is one of the main reasons that people hire within this field. They will feel highly constrained not being able to release their information, and most of them will expect an experienced orator.
Mary – I do believe that once I start, I'll pick it up quickly.
Charles – Well you might, my child, but there are, especially here in the Big City, a finite number of companies that you might wish to work for, and the better ones usually have many applicants, most of whom are used to working a microphone. It is simply a function of our modern age that this is no longer an exotic skill, so you must ask yourself, why they should select you for this position, especially since there will be no-one else to fill the demands that you will not supply.
Mary – Doesn't the bond between myself and my employer trump all that?
Charles – Not when information wants to be free...
Mary – Then I should wrap my lips around any dirty microphone that comes my way?!!
Charles - rocks back in chair- Heaven forfend, Mary! A dirty mike is worse than no mike! But you must not think in such stark terms! And above all, you must divest your future speaking career of such gravity, when speaking is really, such a common thing...none of us would be here, but for speaking...
But I'm afraid, my dear, that based on the past work history you've supplied here indicates Mary's papers, that the Fates have spoken. So many jobs, held for so little time! Once, twice, twenty times, you might have had bad luck, but thirty? I see that you must either change your qualifications, or simply apply for a different kind of job.
Expecting to simply walk into the executive suite of an up and coming company on the strength of future achievements...well, it would break my heart to see you in this same position twenty years from now.
Fade to black

Tune in next week, as Mary hits the town! In
Karaoke!
Angel's Harmony, or Satan's Siren Song?
70
BDF [42] - Philo @35: I can't tell whether the end of your first paragraph serious or joking.
Uh, you would take occasionally painful sex over no sex? I got this horrible vision that she LET HIM KEEP GOING as she was crying from pain, I hope I'm wrong. Anyway, your hierarchy must be different from mine: painful sex, selfish sex, inept sex, no sex, no-turn-offs-pretty-good-sex, great sex. 'Cause at least I can hope the next sex might be great, if I don't keep fucking in the first three categories. And of course I want her to keep this inept or sadistic guy off the market where I might run into him.. she'd just do the same thing to the next guy anyway I'm sure... if she's not getting great sex, it's because she's not demanding it, because she thinks crap sex is acceptable, and that will mess up every impressionable guy she gets with about sex too.

Now that I've been thinking about it, guys never seem to admit when they are virgins, until after they've had sex. The only virgin I didn't give a second chance to, took years to tell me that I took his virginity. After he had had sex a second time and got pregnant :)

WHAT - I've written an ad for you because I'm so goddam nice.
Title: Mummy fetish

I want to wrap you in toilet paper and a condom. You will lie completely still as I climb on top of you and take my pleasure. When I'm finished with you, I will give you a chance to top me too, if you'd like.

(If you want a second date, you should probably tell them that you were a virgin immediately afterward, unless your hymen is still around and they figured it out from the blood...)

TLC [60] - Of course I didn't actually do this but the fact that I was willing to consider it is proof enough to me that I don't really want to be a virgin.
If it's so (of course, obviously, well duh) self evident.. did you really seriously consider it?

I think IHSN struck gold @66. Although it still isn't easy to find straight male escorts.. This agency seems to be nationwide and associated with a reality tv show so pretty legit..
http://www.vice.com/read/meet-the-man-re…

Not as on-topic but I thought this article was more interesting:
https://www.vice.com/read/a-female-sex-w…
71
That was for WWWM, not WHAT. Also she can practice beforehand.. with a dildo.. or pillow or couch arm or bouncing on a horse or whatever made your hoohah feel good as a little kid...
72
@15, That's why I said this guy may well be a jerk. I was trying to address the question that had been raised of whether accidental anal is possible. It is. I really wasn't trying to say that this guy isn't a jerk/rapist.

If I was going to guess, I'd say that he was deliberately poking without aiming either because the idea of risking accidental anal turned him on or he was actually hoping to achieve anal penetration with plausible deniability of intent. My next guess would be pure deliberate non-consensual anal. I don't think it's likely that he's doing his best to avoid hurting her, although it's probably possible.

But all of that's just speculation on my part. I really only wrote in to address the issue of is it possible to accidentally anally penetrate a woman, not to guess whether this guy did so on any of the 4x he apparently claims he did.
73
Thanks CatB. mary doesn't mean to not notice relationships are messy. Feelings too. It's all just so complicated that believing life can be played by numbers is just so much easier on the brain.
74
@TheLastComment: I'm sorry I misrepresented you.
75
I forgot to speak up about the excellent sex reference, Scarleteen. (Thank you Seattle)
For virgins:
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/relati…
For people who like sex or want to get better at it or more completely understand basic sexual response:
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/bodies…
When sex is a bummer:
http://www.scarleteen.com/article/relati…

I feel like I was so sloppy @70. I don't begrudge a guy any pain that I ask for or explicitly consent to. I'll try to get used to the pain of a large girth if it seems at all possible, and forgive ineptitude with virgins (they can at least be enthusiastic, and one was pretty amazing straight out of the gate too). I try to be reasonable about unusual circumstances and all that, those categories are just a rule of thumb that works well for me. And as for WHAT&Co, they seem like a couple of bad stereotypes already, and the sexless relationship thing is already in the works: I love sex, but I'm kind of scared every time we have it now. Yet she's still doing it with him anyway. I don't think it's all that funny, but reality is not all roses and ice cream... nevertheless refusing to accept reality can hurt ya.
77
Re WHAT: As a female who enjoys anal, I don't buy for a second that what your boyfriend is doing is accidental. Maybe he tried it innocently once and found you didn't enjoy it, but now he's continuing to penetrate you anally without your consent. This is far beyond his being a selfish jerk. Forget the plug and end this relationship.
78
Philo @70: My vision was: He's pounding away vigorously, so vigorously his cock slips out and goes back into the wrong hole. She reacts by screaming and crying. He responds by saying oh my god, I'm so sorry ("I know he feels super guilty each time"). Either the sex stops or it continues at a gentler pace. This is scenario I deemed most likely with a couple who have been together for a year. In your scenario, if the first time it happened she screamed and cried and he kept going, I doubt we'd be reading that this is a thing that happened four times.

I doubted your post was serious because in the sentences
"DON'T DUMP HIM! You created that monster, don't fob him off for the rest of us to fix now. Just.. y'know.. do that other female norm of pushing for a sexless relationship if you don't want tearful sex I guess. If you're used to bad sex, sexless appears to be a step up."

A, you referred to "pushing for a sexless relationship" as a "female norm," and you're not LateBloomer, and B, you appeared to advise misery for this woman (and her partner) as a solution to her problem. Really!? Oh, and C, you blame her. Brilliant. Had to be a joke. Didn't it?

You seem to have put quite a lot of thought into this hierarchy thing. Mine, I suppose, would be: Good sex, work towards improving the sex, break up.

I'm also not sure how serious Hunter was about his "Rape!" comment. I suppose it's rape culture that's causing me to second guess someone I "know" who confesses to having committed rape. Sure, affirmative consent would require express permission be obtained before going in through someone's back door. However, this woman clearly didn't object to it, and I know that personally, if someone's penis even attempts to broach the "wrong hole" I'm perfectly capable of correcting him.

Philo @75: "I feel like I was so sloppy @70." Indeed. You referred to a guy getting pregnant!
82
It's also becoming more common to confuse "its" with "it's" but that doesn't mean it's accurate!
83
Cont - I did get that Philo probably did mean the "we're pregnant" construction, but, I'm sure Lava will back me up, he is not pregnant. She is pregnant. They are having a baby.
85
Hunter @84: Hmm. So, using "it's" incorrectly is fine because it's common, but using an apostrophe-S (which is so common it's got its own name, the "grocer's apostrophe") to form a plural isn't fine, because it bothers you?
Sorry, but wrong is wrong!
(I will shut up now because this is not a grammar nazi forum!)
86
The "we're pregnant!" thing also bothers me. Why not say "We're expecting a child!" if you want to include both partners; that at least would be accurate.

This is where I will not jump in with a rant about usage.

That said, I absolutely will recommend that everyone (in the English-speaking world) read Authority and American Usage by David Foster Wallace, available in the nonfiction collection Consider the Lobster. Best thing ever.

Really, go get it:
http://www.amazon.com/Consider-Lobster-E…
87
Back on topic: TheLastComment, a two-second google turned up this, a review of the top 10 BBW dating sites: http://www.bbwdatesites.com/
I was also going to suggest FetLife, because people into BDSM often aren't as picky about size as vanilla folks. But that seems an option for once you do have some, er, sexperience. Good luck!
88
LW-1 As a product of 8 years of R.C. nuns pounding R.C. philosophy into my head I take exception to her blaming the nuns for her being squicked -out by "digusting sex" (my term as I interpret her feelings). One of the key things I was taught was that I am %100 responsible for my behavior and actions:..no blaming my leaders.(i.e. I vas chust following orders) .
When she hit puberty she was supposed to look at where she was in life and decide if she was a sexual creature or not and then choose to explore that or not.
She has gone 31 years as an asexual person.
There is nothing wrong with being asexual, but whining that "I can't find a partner" when she has not done any personal exploration of what she is about/likes well, that is wrong by to my lights.
Miss LW-1 simply needs to find men who are asexual and willing to become committed to her. Admittedly a small group.
My approach is better than LW-1 PRETENDING to be all sexified in order to get married and then drop that whole act and decide to BECOME asexual and judgey. I am now switching from Caffeine to water as of ....Now.
89
@88: I didn't get that WWWM picked up the "sex is disgusting" idea from her Catholicism, so much as the "premarital sexual activity is sinful." But I could be wrong. I also don't have enough evidence in the letter to label her asexual, though of course she could be.
90
For WWWM:

I was single pretty much my whole life, lucky to date a guy for a few months before it went no where.
In 2nd half of my being 32, i started a relationship with a man who I've been with since and we got married last year. (together over 3 years now)
91
BDF [78] - A, you referred to "pushing for a sexless relationship" as a "female norm," and you're not LateBloomer, and B, you appeared to advise misery for this woman (and her partner) as a solution to her problem. Really!? Oh, and C, you blame her. Brilliant.
A) women rejecting sex with their partners is a bad stereotype which is alive and well in this forum. I don't think it's a coincidence that guys who care more about getting serviced than servicing are also a bad stereotype that thrives here. Similarly, faking orgasms to cut the night short.. all seem common and related to me.
B) I don't think that I'm advising any more misery than she's already created for herself. Again, I don't think the guy matters when she can't demand good sex.
C) I think you're the weird one if you don't hold people responsible for their decisions. (Shout out to SB53's brilliant Nazi analogy!)

Your first response seems to be the warmongering (see Eudaemonic) "best defense is a good offense". Have you ever tried out Mr Miyagi's "best block, no be there"?

Lava - I'm sorta interested.. gonna scold me for saying a pregnancy is the couple's, instead of the woman's?
92
I assumed that Philophile's partner was a transman.
93
Philophile,

The pregnancy may be the result of two people's actions; two or more people may be invested in the outcome; but only one person is actually pregnant.

The person who vomits, who is constipated, who can't breathe deeply, whose legs swell, who becomes diabetic, whose heart is subjected to extra load, who feels a fetus' feet kicking and jamming under her ribcage, who is delivered of a child and who might die in the process, who is under the care of an obstetrician - that's the person with the uterus. The british commonwealth might all be affected by the birth of Charles's heir, but only Kate was pregnant.

There can be an expectant woman, an expectant couple, but if your ex became pregnant the second time he had sex, he's a transman.
94
Quick $0.02 on "we're pregnant": Agree with everyone saying men do not get pregnant, and it belittles women's far (FAR) greater load by pretending otherwise.

My wife and I just said "we're expecting"... which is true. We were both, singularly and collectively, expecting a(nother) child and preparing accordingly.
95
Alison [93] - No, I'm not going to adopt your usage of "pregnancy" because you like it better. I like my way better. Although it was an interesting dose of irony that you'll easily discard the biological definition of sex&gender, but the biological definition of pregnancy is your windmill of the week. I do appreciate irony. You haven't swung this controlling nonsense in my direction for awhile. Feeling something difficult you need to talk about or explore?

I've never needed to explain that I'm not a football player when I say "We won the Superbowl again boo yeah!" or explain that "Thank God we kicked German ass that time" does not imply that I served in WWII (no I don't believe gods exist either). Similarly, I haven't needed to explain that when a het couple says they're pregnant, only the woman carries the child. No one needed to explain the usage to me, either. But you don't have to do it my way. To each their own.
96
Oh god that's not accurate either. You're right, a transman can carry a child through pregnancy.
98
My dear sweet persecuted Phiilophile,

There is no biological definition of gender. It's a social construct. Before 1955, "gender" referred pretty much exclusively to grammar.* In 1955, evil sexologist John Money invented a new use for the word to apply to social roles as distinct from sex, which is the observable body.

These days, people don't like to say "sex" so they say "gender" instead when twenty years ago they would have said "sex." So an infant's birth certificate may have a "gender" field, even though technically "sex" would be more accurate. Sure, that's the natural evolution of language, but it's not particularly useful except to let people sidestep the S-word if they are uncomfortable with it.

For the umpteenth time my sweet, you can use whatever language you want. You can use "hippopotamus" to mean "pumpkin pie" if you like. I make no effort to control you at all. But if you want to communicate clearly, I share information about how other people use words so that you can make an informed choice. I understand that you prefer to be idiosyncratic and true to yourself, and that's fine, but it's also why I often skip your comments because the way you use language means I am likely to misunderstand you. I know this is fine with you - you aren't writing for me, you prefer me not to read what you write - and that's fine with me.

But I really did think that you meant your ex was a transman. Not that it makes any significant difference to the story.

* See Mark Twain's account of gender in German at http://www.kombu.de/twain-2.htm. Every noun has a gender, and there is no sense or system in the distribution; so the gender of each must be learned separately and by heart. There is no other way. To do this one has to have a memory like a memorandum-book. In German, a young lady has no sex, while a turnip has. Think what overwrought reverence that shows for the turnip, and what callous disrespect for the girl. See how it looks in print -- I translate this from a conversation in one of the best of the German Sunday-school books:

"Gretchen: Wilhelm, where is the turnip?
Wilhelm: She has gone to the kitchen.
Gretchen: Where is the accomplished and beautiful English maiden?
Wilhelm: It has gone to the opera."
100
It's such a shame people are cursed into putting so much value in their first sexual experience. The last time one had sex is so much more interesting and informative than the first time one had sex.

Such a shame.
101
No Philo, not cross with you. The Patriarchy, those it serves, have often thru the Millenia talked as if female achievements were theirs. A man saying we're pregnant is just such another example.
Much more appropriate for the male to label himself as the pregnant support team. The one who attends to the one doing the heavy baby making lifting. To absorb her weird and wonderful moods, with a smile and a foot rub.
102
2nd or 3rd time with a girl, I have her bent face down over the arm of the couch. It's kinda dark, and I'm just starting to try to get my cock into her pussy.
She: "A little higher"
Me: "There?"
She: "higher"
Me, pushing in a bit: "Here"?
She: "I don't want to do butt stuff!"
Me: "Whaaa? I was aiming for your pussy! Why were you saying 'higher'?"
She: "I meant relative to me!"
Me: "???"

The evening ended up lovely from there, I aimed a bit lower, and found her pussy to the satisfaction of all. But I still maintain that toward the ceiling/sky is "higher" and blame our incident on the air traffic controller giving faulty direction.
103
Philo @91: "B) I don't think that I'm advising any more misery than she's already created for herself. "

How has she created misery for herself? By liking sex? That's a bit slut-shamey, don't you think?

WHAT says she's been with her boyfriend for more than a year, and that she loves sex. So let's estimate that these two are the typical couple and average having sex twice a week. In a year, that is 100 times. Four out of these times it's gone in the wrong hole, resulting in a painful end to the sex. So you suggest that she voluntarily forgoes 96 good fucks as a solution to the problem that occurs 4% of the time? Sorry, but that's creating far more misery than she's currently experiencing. I don't think a decision to stay with someone who gives you good sex 96 times out of 100 is a bad one. I think staying with that person but trying to solve the problem is a good decision, and that's exactly what WHAT is doing.
104
@10: "Jumping into something that diametrically opposed to her current strategy and values, sex with strangers, isn't likely to be something that this particular virgin will be willing to try"

She asked why her current strategy isn't working, Dan is explaining why. His advice is good, her ideas are not. Her "values" are holding her back from what she does want, a healthy relationship. They don't have to be respected at all times, and they can change to allow for actual happiness versus the "no sex until marriage" lie. This is a problem and enabling it is not going to help her. If she wasn't writing in because she knew something was wrong this wouldn't be a concern and her perspective could be this respected by not needing to bother. But it is here and she wants to be told what is wrong. And her premises about how to find a "good man" are sadly wrong.
105
@98 THANK YOU for the wonderful reminder for me to read more Mark Twain. God that man was a genius. So funny. John Updike and Mark Twain helped me get through being a teenage boy with my big schnozz and kinky hair.
To this day, when life starts getting me down I know I can go the bookshelf and pick up one of M.T.'s books and see the world as it should look again.
"where is the maiden?"
"It has gone to the Opera?" Ha!
Re: WHAT
As an owner of one of those troublesome cocks, I have, on occasion, (usually due to overly-imbibing in the fruit of the vine) "slipped out" .
My Miss N would gamely assist in correcting the error but NEVER did I enter the "exit door" as it were.
On the rare occasion when she was wanting that sort of exploration (ah yes, my 30's) she was most graphic about where she wanted me to penetrate and had specific direction about every aspect of the activity. I do NOT buy Boyfriend's "OOPs" explanation.
107
I've skimmed the responses.....

(1) I disagree with DS a bit on this. Perhaps the direction he proposes will snap LW out of her dry spell, but I think the first question - is there something wrong - so massively overshadows getting laid at this point. Sex is more the red herring in this. Something bigger is going on. And that elephant could jump (okay, lumber) one of two ways. Either getting some nookie will give her the needed boost to get over the relationship hump because it will remove a substantial anxiety point (happened to me); or she could have really sucky sex the first time (the first time is rarely any good) and feel like a triple serving of ------ and make the situation worse.

Frankly, I think she needs a counselor at this point (sex positive). A trusted older friend? I had one older lady that gave me a lot of helpful guidance. Someone who can unpack whether this is just overwrought anxiety over sex and now the big V has transfigured into an insurmountable myrmidon or another issue that is preventing LW from being a good mate choice.

I tend to lean a bit toward the latter. There are plenty of guys who are willing to date a girl exclusively for two months before consummation, so long as it's trending that way (some hot and heavy stuff). They aren't the most common, but I'd be surprised if LW isn't visiting some of the places they exist. I certainly have known of several.

(2) Ug. You are just too precious and I don't mean that as a compliment. Stop worrying about saving the universe or your girlfriend - women are not little delicate fee fee flowers - and stop thinking about your mother when it comes to sex. I don't think you should be a knuckledragging jerk like your friends - don't use people and don't treat your girlfriend like your personal sex toy - but don't sweat about protecting her from some speculative possible future where she will feel ever so hurt if you have to break up (like 99% of couples.)

By the way, I married the man who took my virginity. OMG was I stupid.

(3) Eh. Yes can slip out. Yes can slip in the anus. But she sounds really effing tight - all the tears etc. - so that doesn't lead me to the conclusion she's one of those girls where it's easy to slip in. Don't use that position, LW, and take a good hard look at your boyfriend. Make sure this really is a mistake.
108
@106. Me, but they're crotchless. Does that count?
109
@catbro. Love Archer.
110
Alison [98] - Interesting, I didn't know how or when gender became synonymous with sex. But, since they are, and sex has a very specific biological definition based on gametes, it's technically incorrect to call a trans man a "man". It's simply polite to do it, and it acknowledges the gender norms and societal discrepancies faced by most men and women, at the expense of accurately describing our reproductive status. When we say that trans men are men, we are saying that men can (and do) absolutely share in the direct physical risks of gestation.

Some information in exchange.. pregnancy does not always mean gestation in current times. To some people, it means the onset of parenthood, with many associated culturally-expected responsibilities... not just financial support, but planning in every way to care for a child for decades. This Time article says it best imo..
"during a time when more dads are stepping up and heeding the clarion call for added involvement, I’m not sure striking “We’re pregnant” from the expectant-parent vernacular sends the most productive message. If you have a supportive and doting partner, is this really the hill you want to die on while quibbling over semantics?"
http://time.com/2866582/yes-mila-kunis-w…
Although the article does dismiss trans men by claiming that only women can be pregnant.

BDF [103] - How has she created misery for herself? By liking sex? That's a bit slut-shamey, don't you think?
Still at the insults, I see. Now, according to you, I'm a slut-shamer. Because you apparently didn't bother to read @76:
She says, "I love sex, but I'm kind of scared every time we have it now." Yet she's still doing it with him anyway.

That is her decision. She's entitled to it and all repercussions, including her current fear of sex. If she'd rather use a butt plug or try to get used to unconsensual anal rather than demand good sex, that's her choice. Likewise, it's my decision to let you know that I consider your comments to me to be insulting and devoid of useful information. I'd appreciate if you'd stop trying to pick fights with me. It's your choice to channel your aggression towards me, or towards tackling problems that may improve your life, and I absolutely hold you responsible for your decisions, too.
111
Edit: Although the article does dismiss trans men by claiming that only women can gestate.
112
I'm not going to die making a stand for this, but "we're expecting" is totally accurate (and exciting); when I hear "we're pregnant," I'm doing the inward eye-roll.
Many people can have something to do with the conception and birth of a baby. In addition to the person or people who raise the child, there are the person who provides the sperm, the person that provides the egg, and any doctors or other medical personnel who assists in bringing that sperm and egg together and maybe transferring the resultant embryo into a womb. Only one person can be pregnant, and that person is the one whose uterus the fetus grows in.

The only legitimate way that a couple of people can utter the phrase "we're pregnant," is if both of them have fetuses gestating in their respective uteruses. Period. The end.
113
First of all, learn English. What you have been is "celibate" together, not "monogamous."

Second, maybe the fact that you view men as potential dicks that may someday stick themselves into you should clue you in to your problem with finding a LTR.
114
Philophile, have you given Eudaemonic your password? "That's a bit slut-shamey" is a critique of your advice, not yourself. It's not an insult. "You're a lying shitstain" is an insult. I disagree with you, and I have the right to tell you why I disagree with you. There is no aggression here, other than on your side. Anyway. You have the right to be just as judgmental and wrong as you wanna be and you won't be logicked out of it, I see. I'm done discussing it with you. Have a nice day.