Savage Love

Just Drinks



LW1: Sounds like Mistress Matisse doesn't buy the story about bro only wanting a drink and convo. Whatever. You are being a good brother to help him out here.

LW2: Perfect answer from Dan, can't improve on this.

LW3: It's weird and old-fashioned I admit, but what's wrong with hitting up people you already know for one-time, NSA adventures? As a slender, fit, etc. woman, people already imagine you're getting it on with somebody, so go ahead and ask.

LW4 and LW5: Basically confirming the advice we gave to NAIVE in SSLOTD last week. Join groups that offer activities you love, meet lots of other people who love the same activities, and you will find joy, sexual and otherwise.
LW1, don't meet any potential escorts to screen them for your brother unless you're sure you won't get in trouble that way, either with a partner who doesn't trust you meeting up with escorts "just to help your brother" or because you might give into the temptation to arrange a private date over those drinks, just like we all assume your brother probably will.

But, if you can do that without getting in trouble, you'd probably be much more able than your virginal brother to judge who is someone safe for him to meet.
BTW, am I the only one wondering why CAW is on testosterone and why she mentions that in her letter?
@1 Capricornius: 1) Congrats on being first! and 2) Thank you for thoughtfully listing the LWs and Dan's once again spot on responses, along with fine comments of your own.
@3 dcp123: I am willing to guess that the testosterone is a prescription medication and CAW is possibly correcting a hormone imbalance (but please correct me if I'm wrong, CAW). I am over 50, and currently on progesterone.
By the way, nice shot glass, Joe! I want one!
As someone mentioned few weeks ago just key in (insert your city) and you can get a fairly good idea of what might work and with whom.
Be honest as who you are and what you’re looking for without getting into sexual details (“my brother has no dating experience,” “I’m interested in meeting younger people”)

MYBRO- Not sure if you plan on being present at bro’s encounter. If so you may consider leaving after 15-20 minutes or so, assuming things go reasonably well.

CAW- people advertising online often state their preferences. Escorts may be a good way for you to start exploring in a drama-free environment.
A tall, slender, attractive, fit, artistic, female 65-year old, taking testosteron- not that it matters in this case, as dcp pointed out- should also look into attending some open mic readings as well as other art events she finds interesting, and approach possible mates just as Capri the first suggested.
@4 dcp & @6 CMDwannabe: You're both right---CAW's mention of being on testosterone shouldn't really matter when advertising online.
@6 CMDwannabe: Good advice to MYBRO and CAW in addition to Dan's.
YMMV dramatically on the social dance thing, but it's a good suggestion. PLEASE, though, before you go:

1) bathe
2) don't douse yourself in cologne/perfume
3) find out the social rules for the venue you're going to before you start soliciting dance partners
4) don't go in expecting to treat it like a nightclub or other hookup spot

I say this as a woman who has done her fair share of social dancing and who has been creeped on one too many times, but it's not just men who do this. Expect to find a high percentage of odd ducks in this kind of environment. Your chances of meeting someone are better if you look like you actually enjoy dancing, though, instead of acting like it's a tedious step prior to getting laid.
@8: Yes to all that.

As a guy who has done plenty of ballroom dancing lessons, I'll make a few other observations...

Knowing how to dance is an impressive skill that will get you a lot of attention. It slays at weddings. You will learn how to lead a woman in dance as a general activity, which gives you moves at clubs that are not "walk up behind woman and rub your crotch into her ass". And if you dance well with one woman, every other woman in the place notices. So definitely actually LEARN how to dance. And dare I say it, it's fun. The dancing itself, and the being the guy in the room who actually knows how to do it.

If you can afford it, go to a dance studio that offers one-on-one lessons. You're probably in about $75/week for a 45-60 minute one-on-one lesson, and you'll get access to several group lessons/parties each week too at no additional cost. The key advantage to this is you will learn to dance a LOT faster with a professional instructor than just paired up with random people in a group setting.

If you are socially awkward or find that you have difficulty conversing with women, an added bonus is that female dance instructors have lots of clients like this, and are used to ignoring your social miscues, and it's their job to be nice to you and make you feel confident. DO NOT HIT ON THEM. They are still there to teach you to dance and they are not going to see you outside of the studio, so DO NOT ASK. BUT... I have seen tons of awkward guys come through the studio who had zero skills in talking to women become quite sociable over the course of a year or two.

Lastly, a dance studio is a Target Rich Environment. You'll definitely have couples trying to cram in dance lessons before weddings or other big occasions, but you'll also have more women than men, and a good portion of the men will be gay.

Short version, LW1 should skip the prostitute and start going to dance lessons.
DCP123 @3: Nope, that jumped out at me too. What is the relevance? Is she transitioning FTM? If so, why does she call herself "female" and a "lady"? Perhaps the testosterone gives her a masculine appearance, and she thinks that will put men off unless she pays them?

Oh wait! I've got it, the testosterone has raised her sex drive so that she's hornier than she's been in years.

Regardless, my second thought regarding CAW was, does Tinder have an age limit? If she wants men for "noncommital quick sex dates," there's absolutely no reason to have to pay for them. I'd also suggest a Fetlife profile. If the testosterone is relevant to her gender presentation, and if she's at all kinky, she may find some submissive women interested in a tall, androgynous-looking older woman.
@10 cont. Craigslist too. CAW will find plenty of men seeking casual sex there.
CAW is almost certainly just taking testosterone as a replacement and it's making her randy.

OkCupid has a "casual sex" option.

Or she could just put out on the first date then not text back.
First time commenter, I'd like to chime in re the dance lessons, as a lesbian woman learning to lead lindy hop. (I agree it is super fun, though I am obvs not doing it to meet a partner -- it's probably more likely to meet gay women at the local supermarket -- but, you know, to actually learn to dance.)
I'd love to see SL readers who take up partner dancing to help make it a more LGBT friendly environment. From my perspective, a few things that I would find helpful: Don't freak out if a guy wants to follow or a woman wants to lead. Suggest to your dance instructor to point out that these are roles and it's a choice (bonus points if they at least occasionally are flexible on pronouns when describing moves). If you ask someone to dance and it turns out they dance the other role, accept it and move on; don't make a fuss. (This has actually happened to me with the occasional guy, who usually and reasonably assume I follow). If there is a surplus of leads in a class, don't go to the female lead and suggest she follow for the evening (and vice versa).
Generally, I can only recommend to everyone they try out both lead/follow roles. It is super interesting and will make you a better dancer to have seen the other perspective.
And LGBTQ people reading this, lindy hop is a great option to start partner dancing, as it is less traditional/ formal than many other ballroom dances and at least in bigger cities should have a pretty open minded crowd. (And, it is amazing fun.)
BDF, biggie
I think most will agree that as described in the letter CAW is likely to find interested partners.
Yet being 65 and possibly newly single after many years, she may find that jumping right into the heart of the online scene can be a bit overwhelming for a novice her age.

Hunter @13, for women as for men, testosterone is the hormone that controls sexual arousal and libido. For women as well as men, the body manufactures less and less of it as people age - and since female bodies contain far less than male bodies anyway, many women find their sex drive dwindling or even disappearing after menopause. Low-level testosterone replacement "therapy" for women is an off-label use that has been shown to restore the sex drive in some (not all) women. However, it comes with occasionally nasty side effects and there is no FDA-approved safe dose - it's all trial and error, and quite possibly placebo effect.

I'm guessing that CAW included it in her letter to show that she is very interested in maintaining a good sex life as she ages, and now all she needs is a NSA partner.
CMD @15, I agree with you that online hookups are not a smart way to go for CAW, at least not until she gets her groove back. I got the sense, reading her letter, that she is newly single and not at all ready for a new relationship - hence the need for NSA sex at this transitional time in her life. But as you and others have pointed out, she doesn't have to pay for it, and IMO she doesn't need to go online for it. I'm sure she has a few secret admirers in her active, artistic life who would love to show her a NSA good time. If she is attracted to a friend or acquaintance, why not let them know? There's never any harm in asking - assuming she's not hitting on subordinates at work, her therapist, or any other inappropriate matches.
Hunter @13 A replacement for testosterone. Low testosterone levels can cause low bone density, a problem that many women that age already have. Some women do have lowered testosterone levels as they age, and also some medications can cause lowered testosterone levels. Since she's in her 60s, either could be the case. Or she could be taking it recreationally, like if she's trying to bulk up or something. Who knows. In any case, it's making her horny again.

Love all the ballroom dancing advice/stories.

@CMD and others- I agree about the brother. He might be too shy to tell his sister that he'd also like some time alone with the sex worker. Or the LW might be taking legal precautions by saying it's strictly social in print.
@17 Yes that's possible. But sometimes you want anonymity and no requirement to consider the other person beyond professional/ethical behavior. With a fuck buddy or a NSA hookup, you really do have to consider the other person's feelings and pleasure which is totally different than hiring a service. Also, it can sometimes be embarrassing to have people who know you in other aspects of life now know what you are like in bed. It can cause you to hold back a bit in bed (because of self-consciousness and vulnerability) and it can cause things to change socially between you afterwards. Finally, just speculating, she could want a young hot guy for her re-entry into sex life. At 65, she's less likely to get that in a NSA sort of way.
Re: testosterone for women.

I am 44, very fit and active. Over the last two years, I'd noticed a substantial decrease in my sex drive. I brought it up to my doctor, who prescribed the usual estrogen (birth control pills) in August. I hadn't been on birth control pills since my early 20s. They were horrific. I lost interest in working out, my running time increased 10%, my weight increased several pounds despite me immediately restricting calorie intake, it was tough to get out of bed in the morning, and I was so moody I nearly broke up with both my gym/martial arts studio and my boyfriend of two years. When my period came around, I had cramps so bad I had to use heating pads at night and I still had to miss a day of work.

Was I horny? Well, twice. Once while I was at work (which was unhelpful) and once several days after a mood swing that just wouldn't quit had led me to not want to be so much as in the same room with my boyfriend. So, also, no help.

I discontinued use and did some research on what else might work. Testosterone. So I asked the doctor about that. She said it wasn't legal to prescribe to women in the US, but she could tell me the dosage I'd need to take. I acquired that from Mexico (where it is sold over the counter as a gel) and began using it in October. OMG. It's the real deal. My moods have evened out, my sex drive has increased, my motivation and enthusiasm for life is up, my focus is better. Working out is a joy. I can lift more than I used to.

The only negative side effects I've noticed is increased acne. It's not awful, but at 44, I'd pretty much waved acne good-bye forever. Now I usually have one or two small zits. I'll happily take that trade-off.

It's been tested and prescribed for women in Australia and some other places. I don't see any reason why it's not an on-label application, except that 'quality of life', especially for women, is such a vague diagnosis. I understand that placebo effect is a big deal, but I went into the estrogen therapy with the full expectation that it would work. It didn't, in several measurable ways (weight, run time, physical performance - even if you discount all the self-reported emotional/soft issues). I went into testosterone therapy with a lot of trepidation, thinking it might be the same as the estrogen. I felt better and more revved up within a week.

I don't think it's a placebo. I think this stuff really works. The older woman might have been prescribed the stuff for bone density or other issues. But I'm sure she's listing it not because she's saying 'my hormones are out of whack' or 'I'm transitioning', but instead that 'Hey, I'm full of life and vigor and want to get laid again for the first time in 20 years!' It's *THAT* much of a game-changer for a woman. Enough of a game-changer that yes, it can redefine your whole approach to life.
I think MBTCG should say she's an artist and film maker, and she works at home writing. Actually, I really thought the question MBTCG was going to ask was what to say or do if someone he knows recognizes his girlfriend from her work.
@20 doseage, please...
Dosage: 5-10 mg per day, applied topically. Women in Australia go up to 20 mg/day depending on current T level and the effectiveness of lower doses. I've had such success with 5-10 mg that I see no reason to increase.

Male dose is much more dependent on actual/current level, so get a blood test and discuss with a medical professional. If my local city is any indication of the nation, there are tons of clinics out there standing ready to assist men in getting testosterone treatments, purportedly for erectile dysfunction, but there are so many other things it helps with.
So now that I've read the article Dan cited on, what's a good, safe way for a woman to go about finding a male escort? I guess I could go back to Fetlife, but all I found there was a bunch of weirdos who wanted to sext me but not actually meet for sex.
Emma @18: Just wondering if there was a reason why you thought "sister" rather than "brother" for the LW. "I want to hire a sex worker" just doesn't seem like something a guy would tell his sister.

@Gamebird Thanks that was very interesting. I have no reason to take testosterone and don't like to play around with hormones, but I do lift weights and have always been curious about what it would do to my sex drive. How long did it take to feel side effects? I wonder if it's the sort of thing you can try for a week just for the experience?

@BDF Nothing so heady. I just made an assumption. Now trying to reflect on it, I guess two reasons. I'm a female with brothers so it's probably my default bias. But also, we are discussing two situations involving the hiring of sex workers written by two different LWs, and one is for sure a woman so there were a lot of "she" in the comments so it probably just got stuck in my head. As for bros not sharing things with sis, I think this definitely depends on the family and how you grew up. My bros and I would share nothing at all about our sex lives with one another in terms of details of sexual relationships, but for sure we talked about getting laid when we were younger (covering for one another with parents and helping one another arrange dates / playing wing man, etc) so it would not seem at all odd to me for this conversation to happen between siblings of different genders.
To clarify, we did not talk about getting laid in terms of details (yuck yuck) but more like "hey can you introduce me to your friend X" or "Let's tell dad we're going on a double date, but actually I'll drop you off at the mall while I go to Y's house" or "Would you mind not being home this weekend so I can bring Z home" etc. So helping to arrange a hookup would be totally normal after having shared an adolescence and young adulthood with mutual friends.
BDF @10, That's almost exactly my reasoning. She doesn't describe herself as FTM, which could be a reason for testosterone treatment and for feeling awkward about dating. As far as I know, testosterone is otherwise pretty infrequently prescribed to women. It certainly can increase the sex drive in both men and women. I got the feeling that she was trying to explain her increased sex drive and interest in men for sex outside of a LTR and was left wondering if she was taking it for recreational purposes exactly to give her that increased sex drive. Maybe the most likely explanation is just that she long suffered from an unusually low sex drive, was prescribed testosterone to address that, and is struggling to figure out how to satisfy her drive now that she has one again. The good news is that it isn't exactly hard to find guys looking for no-strings-attached sex with slender attractive women of any age.

I'll now read the rest of the comments and probably find out that somebody in this excellent community has already explained all of this to me.
OK. I've read now and learned. I didn't know that testosterone can also help women with bone density issues.

My mom has low-ish bone density and is about to start hormonal (estrogen agonist?) treatment to reduce the risk of recurrence of hormone-sensitive breast cancer that may make that worse. Maybe she should try testosterone. But, while I think it would be great if she could find joy from becoming active again after decades of non-sexuality (yes, I'm sure), I doubt that she would be at all interested in that. She's probably not emotionally well-equipped to explore that side of her life again.
LW3. You not heard of online dating? Or lesbian clubs? Or fetlife, where younger men are interested in older women? Is this an add for testosterone or just some sad lady trying to pretend the sixties are the new thirties. Believe me, it just ain't so.
@EmmaLiz, 26: About a week to be certain I was feeling effects beyond placebo. With the estrogen, I felt like crap the very first day, the first full day after the first pill, to the point that I thought at first I had coincidentally come down with a flu or similar that would explain the nausea, fatigue, bloat, and lethargy. All the testosterone gave me was the feeling I normally had on a really good day. But then I had that feeling every day, day after day with only slight variation, for as long as I've taken it. It's like instead of having some days where I'm dragging at 10% and others where I'm at the top of my game with 90%, suddenly all my days were 75% or higher.

But, ya know, results may vary, I'm not a doctor, etc. I can only speak to my experience with it.
I think this is the link to the article on that Dan referenced:…
@31 Wow that really makes me want to give it a try. I've had similar problems with estrogen. When I tried to take bc with estrogen, it reduced my range of emotions from cry-at-the-drop-of-a-hat to blow-out-my-brains. Everyone's different though so who knows. Testosterone makes you a go-getter. Makes others want to rip people's heads off! I'd like to give it a try though just out of curiosity. I feel that way about adderall as well though. Maybe some weekend I'll combine them both and see what I get done, ha ha.
Gamebird @20, 23, 31, it sounds like the testosterone therapy worked wonders for you with minimal side effects, and conversely you appear to be very sensitive to even minute dosing with female hormone therapy, since you reacted so negatively after the very first dose. Other women have exactly the opposite reactions - excellent response to estrogen-progesterone, very bad to testosterone. There is a lot that docs don't yet understand about sex hormone supplementation and its interactions with other physical systems, plus everyone's body chemistry is different and everyone's attitude about hormone therapy is different - making it very difficult to make generalized predictions about how women will respond to either female or male hormones for better sexual functioning. I have never before heard or read any peer-reviewed studies about testosterone as a treatment for low bone density. EmmaLiz @18, could that be a clinical trial that is still underway?

I would also caution the Commentariat not to regard HRT for low libido as a "recreational" use of the hormone, any more than its use for FTM transitioning is recreational. For those who respond well to it, more energy and a reinvigorated sex drive can make a huge positive difference in their quality of life, as Gamebird has testified. But many women have to monkey with their dosages or give it up entirely due to negative side effects, and very little is understood about the potential long-term effects of supplemental testosterone. It may or may not be connected to increased heart disease, cancer, and diabetes risk - the studies so far are few, and the results so far are mixed, which is why it's not FDA- approved for this use. Long story short, it's not the sort of drug you would want to try just for kicks. (Plus, with Gamebird being a notable exception, most women would have to be on the hormone for several weeks before it made enough of a difference in their body chemistry to be noticeable - by which time you might also start to experience unpleasant side effects, depending on your individual body chemistry.)
@PattyH, 32 - yes, that's the article I read. But it doesn't give me any information about which social media sites currently support escorts. I am wary of contacting non-professionals due to the weeding out process I think I'd have to do with non-professionals. My attempt at getting sex on Fetlife by openly advertising for it netted me thirteen respondents, not a single one of which was willing to meet in a public place. So I figured the next step was to find a professional and pay them, but I've been stymied with not knowing where to find such an individual.
Gamebird @35: If you want vanilla sex, I wouldn't have thought of Fetlife as my go-to site. Seriously, try Craigslist "Casual Encounters" or Tinder. I once placed a casual sex ad on Craigslist and had about 30 responses within the first quarter of an hour.
Great! Thanks!
Escort for brother--it struck me that the rules for working with an escort are the opposite of hooking up with a civilian woman, so I'm concerned the brother may get some counterproductive experience.

E.g., never talk about sex with the escort ahead of time vs ask first, and repeatedly, with a civilian.
You're just taking her out to dinner and she's going to fuck you vs buying her dinner doesn't mean she owes you sex.

Escorts seem better for an experienced person in a dry spell like our older lady, not a rookie who could draw all the wrong conclusions.
Hunter @39: Yes, that's probably why actual women do so well. Very little competition.
Fresh @38: If it's an experienced escort who knows her job is to guide Bro through his first time, ideally she can also give him some tips on how to approach and seduce "civilians." The girlfriend experience, I believe it is called.
Anyway, Bro would have to be pretty stupid to not realise you behave differently toward women you're paying for sex versus women you hope will have sex with you for free, because they want to.
LW2 - I think that answer rolls right into what kind'a films/videos do you do?!?!, if the person hasn't already figured out what an independent contractor doing videos at home probably means. I would work on that line and say something like "I work as an independent contractor with digital content, which really means I can be doing lots of different things/jobs in a given week." Then redirect. I think that's way better then what was suggested. :)
@MBTCG (LW2): I agree with reswin @42. Dan's answer invites immediate follow-up questions about what the videos are--everyone is fascinated by movies/videos and movie-making.
Reswin's answer is good, because it is honest yet vague and above all it's boring, which is what you want if you don't want people to pursue it. You want the answer not to be intriguing. But you don't want to be too mystifying, or people will ask more questions to try to understand, probably mostly just tying to be polite. So couch the answer in as boring a way as possible, predict follow-up questions and have equally boring answers at the ready, then redirect the conversation to something about the person who asked. Most people love to talk about themselves.

@Gamebird: If you are a woman looking for casual, not especially kinky sex, Fetlife is not the place to look. In addition to craigslist, I would suggest OkCupid, Tinder, PlentyOfFish, or AdultFriendFinder (which is considerably sleazier).
Good luck!
MBTCG's girlfriend could just blow off the question. "Oh, my job is really boring. Have you seen Rogue One yet / other distracting question?"
Gamebird - I'm also a bit confused as to what is it that you're looking for. Is it nothing but ordinary casual, or you have a special act/scenario in mind that you would rather test with a professional first?

Regardless, open a new email account dedicated solely for the purpose of meeting people for sex, and be aware that any craigslist post from a woman to men will attract hundreds of email if not more, many of them dick pics.
Capricornius @34, I think I was the one who brought the word "recreational" to the table. It wasn't my intent to suggest that anyone taking testosterone to boost their libido was doing it for recreational purposes. I had in mind more the sort of people who do not have ED, but take Viagra in the hopes that it will turn them into an unstoppable porn star. So, yeah, if your libido is low by objective standards or by your standards, by all means your treating a condition that bothers you. On the other hand, if you have no issue with libido, but just want to be proclaimed by all humanity as the Universal Sex God(ess) of the Universe for all Universal Eternity (tm), that would be something I'd consider recreational.

Apologies if my comments came across otherwise.
@10 & @11 BiDanFan: I never thought of the possibility that CAW is or could be FTM, which would explain her prescribed testosterone at age 65. Good point. How did I miss that?
My apologies to everyone who is among the transgender population. I really am naive on this subject and of your issues.
@18 EmmaLiz: Thank you for the reminder about low bone density after age 60.
My currently prescribed intake of progesterone helps equalize my hormone levels
(too much produced estrogen is NOT a good thing). I was wondering (@4) if CAW's
situation was anything like mine---correction of a hormone imbalance.
Bone density loss over the next 10 years will be something to ask my doctor about.
@49: Awwwww, rats! Sorry for my failure to indent.
Good luck, Gamebird, nocutename, and everyone out there seeking casual sex online.
You're braver than I am.
@51: Actually, auntie, I'm not seeking casual sex online these days, and wouldn't use craigslist, Tinder, or AdultFriendFinder even if I was. But I appreciate the good-luck wishes! I hope you make lots of music in the coming year--we need more in this world.
Cap @17
If she is attracted to a friend or acquaintance, why not let them know? There's never any harm in asking.

Apart from possibly ruining the friendship and/or becoming a subject for gossip in her circle of friends, of course.

It seems smarter to find someone outside her social circle.
@52 nocutename: You're most welcome, and thank you, too, for the good wishes in music in exchange, and bless you. Also, thank you for the forewarning and heads up about using Tinder, craigslist, or AdultFriendFinder for contacts.
About my current 2017 situation and life goals: I am looking into a VA voc-rehab-eduaction program (VA VRE) to see if I can earn my Masters in Music and /or teaching certification, and put my BA of Music to sustainable work. The humble news of NO certified teaching positions being open here in my community is indeed, a harsh reality. I have been told by the Mus Ed Dept director at my local university that she tells those who have the means to relocate upon getting certified and complete their student teaching credits to relocate. Current teachers in the public school system P-12 here have to die or retire first before there are any openings, and the competition is dog-eat-dog brutal. What to do? My performance in music gigs, along with my continual work composing new music--while not yet paying a lot, has been my salvation.
My therapist recommends that I start a quartet----I'm all for it!
I'm not looking for anything all that exotic - vanilla, penis in vagina sex with a man 20-30 years old who is not overweight, doesn't smoke, and whom I can accept or reject without regard to their feelings. (ie, I don't have to protect myself from a potential stalker, rapist, social censure, or random bad-mouthing because I turned them down.) One whom I can dictate condom use without having them complain that they can't get it up or keep it up. One who is capable of orgasm.

In the half dozen or so partners I've had in my life, I've never had the pleasure of having one like that. The live-in boyfriend I have now, and who is more than happy to be sexually available at any time, is 40 pounds overweight. I want, at some point in my life, to have sex with a man I can hug and wrap myself around, someone who doesn't outweigh me by half again or a third. Said boyfriend is fine with the open relationship we have, though having him in my bed has considerably slowed me down on pursuing the dream of, at some point, bedding someone closer to the physical ideal.

If I can afford it, it isn't going to create problems for me, and it's available, then I want to try it.
@55 Gamebird: Truly, you have my sincerest, heartfelt wishes of good luck in finding what you are seeking, and I hope you do. Millions of women like you have the same dream / goal. I once did, too, way back when.
@55 Gamebird, Part II: Hopefully your current boyfriend is not my ex-husband.
@34 I know next to nothing about hormone replacement so I have no idea how common it is to prescribe testosterone replacement for women or if it's ever prescribed for that. I was responding to Hunter who asked what the testosterone could be replacing. I said she could be taking it to replace testosterone itself for reasons similar to men (deficiency caused by medication or age, bone density). Or she could be taking it recreationally (body building for example). I'm sorry if it sounded like I was saying something definitive- I was trying to add to the conversation speculating about why the LW was taking it. But your question got me curious and here are two interesting articles about it.….…
Neither are particularly recent so I'm sure a lot has changed since. I was not claiming that I knew of some studies that are still in trial- ha ha- but thanks for the generous benefit of the doubt.

I said "recreational" regarding body building. @46 The people I know who take testosterone for those reasons buy it online or at Walgreens whatever, not with a prescription.

I agree with your caution about taking hormones. Every time I've taken them (various hormonal BCs) I've had awful side effects. But I'm curious to experiment with it at least short term though maybe that's not wise. I don't know if I'll do it for realz though. I've been wanting to experiment with adderall for years and haven't actually done it, and opium is on my bucket list. In real life I'm rather sober.

@54: Dang it! Please excuse the typo: I meant: "....voc-rehab-education....VA VRE....."
re: MYBRO. I'm curious as to why he wants "just drinks and conversation" and the background about his virginity. Is he (PC alert) "atypically socialized" ie has no game? Does he have a medical condition or other scenario that makes him an unlikely sex partner off the bat? Are you recovering mormons? If he's basically so awkward that he has difficulty socializing with women, I hate to say it but maybe something akin to a "pick-up class" might help, moreso than an expensive evening of cocktails with a partner who is ESPECIALLY closed up, in the emotional sense. By 2017, there have to be alternatives out there that aren't, like "here's how to bang hotties" but are closer to Toastmasters for Wannabe Daters, right?
Sporty @ 60
Or maybe just too shy to tell sibling he wants to pay for sex. This is why sibling should leave shortly after escort arrives.
Online hookup safety tips for women and all others:
-Open a new email account strictly for play, just in case your account is being hacked, under a fake name
-If possible avoid opening this account at home to avoid disclosing your IP address, sand be careful at the work place as well. The nearby Starbucks or book store or bar should have a free wifi.
- You are likely to get lots of responses, and are not obligated to answer all of them.
-Screen applicants carefully, as you are3 likely to get lots AND LOTS of responses.
-Don’t send any pictures you don’t want to see published elsewhere. In fact, you may play your cards and avoid any clear face pics if any at all. No nude pics that show face or disclose your place (furniture, decoration, pets, etc.)
- State what you’re looking for and make sure all involved understand this is all about you.
- Tell the guys you are married/dating, your man knows and will be present incognito in the public place where you will meet first as well as the adjacent motel room if and when.
- Meeting prior to action in a public place is a must. You meet them no later than 7-8 pm and tell them in advance that if all goes well you will fuck another day, not right away.
- You first meet in a place away from your neighborhood, where no one in the bar/bookstore/coffee shop is likely to know you.
- You ask to see his legal ID and avoid showing yours unless he’s insistent on it (which he has a right to.)
-You look for a rental room outside your hood, you tell him generally where it’s going to be, and text him 30 minutes before the designated meeting time with the exact location and room number.
- As he enters you knock on the wall to let your husband who’s in the other room know he has arrived even if you don’t have a husband and there’s no one in there.
-You are having lots of fun.
-You will not make men over 45 be invisible from now on just because you can fuck a hot 25 yo guy.

@29: she (your mom) is going to take an estrogen ANTAGONIST, which can indeed make bone density loss worse.
I would be cautious about taking any hormone (testosterone) without discussing with her oncologist.
LW2 is looking to pay someone, and as sex work is illegal in the US, may I suggest she have a holiday to OZ or NZ. Down here it's legit and some very nice young men around.
No worries, mate.
No. that's LW3. Please though, don't go looking on Craigslist. Best just visit the local pub, if a sex trip is not possible.
RE @53: I find it very sad indeed that telling someone you find them attractive could "ruin a friendship." If your friendships are that flimsy, you need better friends.

CMD @62: Great list of tips, thank you.

Lava @65: Hah, I don't think there are any men under 30 without beer bellies at my local pub. Besides which, in a pub you can't just announce to everyone present "Hi, I'm in an open relationship, looking for casual sex with a hot young man, who's game?" On the internet you can.
Sportlandia @60: I would be okay with mixed-gender classes for awkward daters. That would solve the problem of PUA/misogynist attitudes and also give opportunities to role-play flirting with actual opposite-sex people, getting feedback *from them* about what they respond to, rather than promoting ridiculous transparent "strategies" like negging and inappropriate touching. If the number one "strategy" for guys to improve their chances with women is "treat them like people," having some female people in the room would surely allow for practice to make perfect here. Not to mention the obvious opportunity to take the flirting out of the classroom if you hit it off with someone.
BDF @66 Well, the LW is looking for someone to have casual sex with, which goes somewhat further than just "telling someone you find them attractive". The proposed friend may very well have a "oh, so you have just been faking a friendship to get into my pants?" reaction.

I don't know if my friendships are flimsy but I would find it pretty uncomfortable if someone I saw as a friend propositioned me for casual sex.
RE @68: LW is 65. Chances are these friends have been friends for decades. I don't think anyone would think someone whom they've been friends with for decades, who becomes single and then makes an advance, has been "faking" friendship. I suppose it depends on whether LW has ruled out all but casual sex. Certainly saying "I'm looking for someone to use and throw away, I reckon you'll do" won't go over well. But "I've always found you attractive; now that I'm single, would you be interested in taking this friendship to another level?" would be difficult not to take as a compliment at worst. Particularly if she's as attractive as she says.
RegEur @68 and BDF @69, I have been on both sides of the "ask and ye shall receive" equation and it has always been taken as a compliment, even when the prospective FWB answers with a firm "Thanks, but I'm not available/not willing to sexualize our friendship." I have not lost any friendships this way, regardless of whether the answer was yes or no. I do agree with BDF that it matters whom and how you ask...and if in fact you HAVE been faking a friendship just to get into their pants, a proposition would make that pretty obvious.

It might be different if most of my friends strongly disapproved of casual sex, and I risked becoming ostracized (or worse IMO, the subject of gossip) for seeking partners within my social circle. If this is the case for RegEur, I can totally understand why pursuing a more anonymous hook-up would be preferable. But if you truly are good friends with people, I would think you'd already know which ones might be open to the idea and which ones are definitely not.

DCP @43, you can't legally buy testosterone in the US without a prescription, regardless of gender - and women wanting it for low libido have to travel to other countries to purchase it, since it is a controlled substance here and only available for FDA-approved uses. The OTC products you see at Walgreens are so-called testosterone "boosters" which, because of the natural-products loophole, are entirely devoid of any government oversight or regulation.
On dancing: I agree with what 8 and 9 have said, and also:

Use deodorant and brush your teeth. Adults should not need to be told this, but that's not the world we live in. Additionally, especially if the class/session is after dinner, pop a breath mint or chew some Doublemint beforehand: even formal dancing is closer than most conversational distance, and if you're the taller person, your partner is going to get a pretty good idea of what your breath smells like.

Don't criticize your partner's technique during the dance. If it's a class, that's what the instructor's for. If it's not, and you have a specific tip, offer it later and politely--"Hey, I think you might be taking an extra step on this turn?" Also, don't try to show off by leading a technique you don't think your partner can follow - this should be a cooperative activity - and don't get annoyed if you think your partner can follow something and they can't.
@BiDanFan: I have to say I agree with RegEur on this and that I can't imagine your scenario working for a lot of middle-aged or older people, which is what the lw is.
I stay friends with people for decades. I have several FWBs, but they began that way, met through a dating site, and have stayed, becoming genuine friends. None of my non-FWBs is poly; and I am currently single. I'm straight and all my straight male friends who aren't already FWBs are married or exes of mine. There is no way I could tell one of my (presumed to be) monogamous married male friends that I find him attractive and would be interested in having casual sex with him.

It would most definitely kill the friendship. Every wife I know would be furious with me. The gossip would be ferocious. The man would be awkward. Not to mention that there aren't any of my existing friends I want to have sex with that I'm not already having sex with.

I know you're poly and presumably you hang out with a lot of people who are also poly; many of us don't.
Nocute @72: Absolutely, if you hit on someone else's monogamous partner that would be a friendship-killer. I am talking about friends who are both single. I didn't think I would have to spell that out.
Nocute @72 cont'd: I find your implication that I don't understand how non-poly dating works a bit insulting. I have been monogamous or non-committed (ie casual only) for most of my dating life, thank you very much. I'm not some alien from Planet Poly who's completely oblivious to the fact that Just Fuck Whoever You Want is not how most people do relationships.
BiDanFan, I didn't mean to insult you at all, and looking back, I see I was responding to both you and Capricornius, and perhaps more to what they initially said than to what you said.

The original comment was made by Capricornius @17, who said: "I agree with you that online hookups are not a smart way to go for CAW, at least not until she gets her groove back. I got the sense, reading her letter, that she is newly single and not at all ready for a new relationship - hence the need for NSA sex at this transitional time in her life. But as you and others have pointed out, she doesn't have to pay for it, and IMO she doesn't need to go online for it. I'm sure she has a few secret admirers in her active, artistic life who would love to show her a NSA good time. If she is attracted to a friend or acquaintance, why not let them know? There's never any harm in asking - assuming she's not hitting on subordinates at work, her therapist, or any other inappropriate matches."

It was responded to by Registered European @ 53, when he said:
"Apart from possibly ruining the friendship and/or becoming a subject for gossip in her circle of friends, of course.

It seems smarter to find someone outside her social circle."

It seems that you didn't enter this conversation until your post @66, in which you replied to Reg Eur by saying: "I find it very sad indeed that telling someone you find them attractive could "ruin a friendship." If your friendships are that flimsy, you need better friends."

That led to the exchange @ #s 68 and 69, which is where I chimed in.

I am sorry if I insulted you by appearing to misunderstand how poly relationships work. Sometimes it seems to me that commentors in Savage Loveland lead lives substantially outside of the mainstream and some of their suggestions occasionally seem impractical for most of us. That's what I meant.
For the record, I don't think of my friendships as flimsy.

I don't know how many single men the lw has in her circle of acquaintances or whether she is genuinely attracted to any of them and just hasn't acted on that attraction. So many assumptions of that original post of Capricornius' seemed so unlikely that I felt that we must be living in different worlds, if they can just count on the lw having available secret admirers in her social circle to whom she's also attracted but just hasn't asked out. If everyone is single and attracted to each other, I'm pretty sure they would have asked one another out by now.
Nocute @75: I didn't read your comments as "appearing to misunderstand how poly relationships work." We weren't talking about poly relationships. Unless someone specifies they are poly, I assume they are not.

It appears that you, RE, Capricornius and I all pictured our own friends groups in response to Cap's suggestion that CAW seek FWBs among her existing friends. Of course, if her existing friends group does not include any suitable single or available candidates, that idea would not work. I thought that Cap's "or any other inappropriate matches" would obviously include "such as those who are not available."

I interpreted CAW's "now without a partner" to mean she is recently single, which would explain why she hasn't already connected with the people in her social circle. Also, some people view friends as friends and lovers as lovers and never the twain shall meet; I read Cap's suggestion as opening her mind to seeing things differently.

FWIW, my friends group includes lots of bisexual, poly women and it never seems to occur to them that they could be dating each other.
Nocute: Picturing your own friends groups, if one of the men in it divorced his wife, and after some length of time told you he fancied you and proposed that you two get sexy together, even if you didn't fancy him would that ruin the friendship? That's what I meant by "flimsy."
Congrats Fan on getting the magic no this week.
BiDanFan: With few exceptions, many of the straight men in my friends group who are not already FWBs are married to women who are my primary friends. If one of the men in my friends group divorced his wife I would likely not hook up with him mainly because that would case pain to my friend who would be his former wife. Divorces can be messy and people often have strong feelings. Having a fling with one of my friends exes would be an act of extraordinary insensitivity.

So I'd have to start with the presumption that he were widowed.

If I didn't fancy one of my straight male, widowed friends, and he came on to me, I can definitely see how things would be or could become awkward. Not maybe for all my friends, but the more traditional ones, for sure. Things might get more comfortable later, but I don't think there ever wouldn't be a weirdness that hadn't been there before. I would have rejected him and rejection is painful. But I still don't think that those friendships are "flimsy" except insofar as I am primarily friends with these men's wives anyway.

The straight, single male friends I have are largely ex-boyfriends, or ex-husband, and if we're no longer having any type of sexual relationship, that's because the sex we used to have didn't work for one or both of us. I maintain 3 fwb relationships: 2 with married men in open marriages (and I've become friends with one's wife), and one with a friend I began dating as a potential boyfriend years ago who didn't work out as a love connection--for one thing he is dedicated to vigorous non-monogamy in a way I don't want in a romantic relationship--but whom I love a lot as a dear friend and sometimes have sex with.

The fact is that I'm not attracted to most of my married, straight male friends, nor do I think they're attracted to me. I am attracted to one who I know is attracted to me and he--not his wife--is my primary friend (and their marriage may not be long for this world, to boot), but from what I know of him, our sexual styles would be incompatible. And even if they were divorced and I am more his friend that his wife's friend, I think she and his kids would see his and my hooking up as being the result of a longer-running affair that was brewing while he was still married (which is not the case, but I know they would be suspicious that it was so). So there would be anger and pain and feelings of betrayal and that alone would make me say "no."

I think you're right that Cap and RegEur and you and I have all been thinking of our own friend groups.
@79 in continuation (some of what I wrote didn't make it):
I already know that my married straight male friend has a crush on me. If he propositioned me post-marriage and I said "no," it would indeed make things awkward. I would pull back from the friendship for fear of appearing to be teasing him or leading him on, as we both know how he feels about me. Right now, the fact that he's married to a woman who insists on monogamy and my refusal to consider becoming part of a cheating relationship keeps the issue from becoming too prominent, though he has made his feelings and desires clear and I have told him that despite their being a mutual attraction, I don't think we'd be compatible. If that obstacle were to be removed, the rejection would take on a different cast, and I don't know that it would even be fair of me to talk with him or see him as frequently as I do now.

Sorry if that makes my friendship appear "flimsy" in your eyes.
Sorry for all the typos and homonyms in the last two comments. I'm really too busy to be writing, and have foregone proofreading; I shouldn't be doing this.
stc @63, Actually, the reason I mixed that up is that I'm a bit hazy about whether she will be taking tamoxifen, which supposedly acts as an antagonist in some tissues (helping suppress her cancer) and an agonist in others or another drug that only acts as an antagonist. In any case, it will be an antagonist for the receptors in breast tissue or it won't be any help at all.

In any case, I only commented about her taking testosterone because I was amused by thinking about her having a reawakening. That would be great in concept, but probably wouldn't work for her at all in reality. She won't be taking any unprescribed hormones at all.
BDF @66, Well, I think you COULD walk into a bar full of young men and say ""Hi, I'm in an open relationship, looking for casual sex with a hot young man, who's game?" but it might cause a riot or other undesired consequences, so it wouldn't be a great idea. You'd probably get quite a few volunteers though.
Capricornius @70 and anyone else who thinks I may be about to interfere in my mom's cancer treatment by scoring her some black-market testosterone for recreational or other purposes, fear not. I was only amusing myself by thinking of her getting some silver lining from her cancer in the form of a beneficial side effect from a drug that some here said may help with bone density. Given where she is psychologically, increased libido wouldn't even be a benefit for her. I also don't know if testosterone even helps with women's bone density and am aware of other drugs that do, which she has already discussed with her oncologist and will probably try if her low-ish bone density goes down during treatment.

Sometimes I'm just talking here, not being entirely serious.
It's not true that there aren't any quality review sites for providers. The best one is The Erotic Review (known in the provider/hobbyist world as TER): An emerging quality site is Nightshift: The best of them, by far, was Red Book, but unfortunately that was shut down for tax evasion, not specifically for prostitution/trafficking. I obviously know of what I speak, and I have one final suggestion: if you find a quality provider through one of these channels, there's no point in "just" meeting for drinks. A provider told me a story about a similar situation and said she told the guy, "Really, you don't need to start there. I'm a sure thing."
BiDanFan and Capricornius: I assume that the lw took stock of her acquaintance--who she knew was available, whom she was attracted to, how her general social circle views casual NSA sex--and made the decision to go with finding someone online to hookup with after that consideration.
@83. dcp123. Sorry to hear your mother is sick.
Not sure going into a bar full of younger men and voicing one's desires is the way to go. There is such a thing as picking out a guy a woman fancies physically, then flirting. Ryan Gosling got it down to a fine art in some movie. I suggest this is way better than picking up random creeps on Craigslist.
@69 BiDanFan: I second LavaGirl @78: Congrats on hitting the lucky number this week!
Bless all participants of the Women's March on Saturday, January 21, 2017.
This event is all across the United States--not just Washington, D.C; there is even one
in my own town and I'm marching in it, dammit! Sad to find out that the pink Pussyhats are not for sale--they're made specifically for the D.C. event, but I'm glad at least to take part, share my own experience, and music. If anyone is interested, I can offer my website link.
@dcp123: I hope your mother is feeling better soon.

Everybody stay warm-----and well.
Nocute @79/@86: Well, I didn't expect that people would picture their actual friends. I mean, very long-winded point taken, "she may not have any available friends." But I wouldn't have thought someone like you was incapable of picturing a hypothetical situation in which a generic you, not NoCute you, had friends who were available, as Cap described, and what would happen if you made a respectfully phrased pass at them. If such a hypothetical, single friend would not be able to politely decline and remain friends with you, that's what I meant by a flimsy friendship.

Of course mileage may vary with real people and individual baggage. But not everyone's friend group consists entirely of established couples. I guess if yours has been that way for long enough, it's difficult to picture things being different?

You assumed "obviously she doesn't have any suitable friends"; I assumed "obviously she'd rule out the coupled friends." We all know what assuming things accomplishes. ;)

Lava/Griz: Thanks!

Lava @87: Picking up random creeps in a bar is better than picking up random creeps on Craigslist? At least on Craigslist, you don't have to worry that the cute guy you picked has a girlfriend who's going to emerge from the bathroom and glass you. Or that he won't be interested and you'll feel embarrassed in front of everyone. Or that the next guy knows the first and you look like a desperate cougar (isn't that your worst nightmare?). Or that you'll spend an entire evening out and there won't even be a cute guy. It's also much easier to gather up the chutzpah to approach someone from behind the safety of a screen. I guess this is a generational thing. Mine is used to ordering up things we want off the internet, and why should cock be an exception? :)
You have no faith Fan. For a start one would take him back to one's place, and one doesn't flirt unless some non verbal signals have occurred showing mutual interest, and who said it would be done in front of ' everyone'? And you forget the power of scent and alcohol mixed together.
You're right though, it could be a generational thing, and coming out of a thirty yr marriage and the dating/ hook up game had changed completely.
BDF: So is the hatchet buried?
Because generally I'm in agreement with you and it felt weird to be so out of sync. I guess it does come down to us all thinking of our own friend groups, though it occurred to me that CAW, the LW3, knew before writing to Dan that she didn't want to look within her own friend group for whatever reasons. Since she is quite clear that she wants NSA sex with no romance ("I'm not sure how to go about engaging in noncommittal quick sex dates. I don't know of any escort services for the ladies, but I would be interested."), I can understand why she is excluding her social circle.

I thinks there are advantages and disadvantages to both the real-life bar (or elsewhere) pickup and the online dating or hookup site routes.
In the real world, you both can see first if there's a mutual attraction and then build on that. But meeting a stranger while both have been drinking and going home with them that night has some potential for ugly, awkward, embarrassing, or dangerous scenes. Also, the chances that you'll find enough suitable partners who are both interesting to you and interested in you in any given bar on one night may be slim if you are more discerning, less conventionally attractive (which for women can also mean "over 40 years old"), or if the bar is not a popular one or one that caters to a clientele predominately out of sync with you in terms of presentation.

In the website or app world, you can look though hundreds or thousands of potential partners, giving you much more options. You can look for people who possess exactly the qualities you want (or appear to). If you make a better first impression through your words than your looks, or you are shy about approaching strangers in person, you might benefit from this technique. Writing or texting or even calling on the phone before meeting gives more chance to get to know each other than a drunken conversation in a dark and noisy bar. The downside is that is is impossible to gauge whether or not there'll be chemistry until you meet in person, and that it is very easy to misrepresent oneself online, in terms of how old you are, or how you look in general. I've had a lot of meetings with people I've connected with online at which there was no attraction whatsoever..

So neither technique is perfect and both sometimes yield great results. You pays your money and you takes your chances.
NoCute @93: Oh, absolutely. I just wouldn't have assumed that it had obviously occurred to CAW that her friends could become FWBs, because that might not occur to everyone, and that's why Cap suggested it. I just felt a bit dismissed by your "well you're poly, what would you know," when I wasn't viewing it in that context at all. (Unlike Dan, I don't think nonmonogamy is the solution for everyone!)

I agree with your observations on the advantages and disadvantages of bars versus online. Lava, I wasn't blowing off your suggestion of going to bars, just saying that if spending hours in a noisy bar full of drunks isn't Gamebird's cup of tea, the internet is an efficient -- if admittedly imperfect -- alternative.
And yeah -- I'm doing a NoCute and assuming the obvious option of "meet men in bars" has already occurred to Gamebird, and didn't work so well. Hence her seeking alternatives.
I know full well I am going off topic here, again, but may the GOP ROT IN HELL AND DECOMPOSE TO RATS AND MAGGOTS!!!!! Fuck you, Republicans, your dupes, lawyers and lobbyists, AND I HOPE IT HURTS ALL OF YOU IN SPADES!!! Fuck you, Paul Ryan, for laughing during a Congressional session when a Democratic representative spoke out in protest the Russin interference with the election, and questioning the electoral college, to which Joe Biden WTF, Joe? Are you now a Republican, too?) banged down the gavel, cutting her off, saying "It's over." Fuck all you Republican PIGS!
When the New Fascism under the Trump Evil Empire takes over and those who blindly bought all their corrupt propagandist bullshit.
Planned Parenthood, long targeted by the charter GOP pigfuckers along with Obamacare (what in 8 years---69 attempts to repeal Obamacare and other obstructionist filibuster?!) are to be gutted.
Big Polluters will be given a free reign of unchecked regional, national and global destruction for the Almighty Dollar.
I have NO sympathy for those in blood red states who blindly believed that Trumpzilla, during his year-long campaign of lies and hatred, will bring back their jobs in the coal and fracking industries. They will pay terrible consequences, economically as well as environmentally for their choice of a word leader, starting now. People in southern states as well as the rest of this divided country are now suffering from severe weather conditions. Major freeway accidents; people running to the stores in desperation to stock up. And---surprise!----none of these southern states seems equipped with snow plows or other emergency vehicles with which to clear roadways and fix long neglected infrastructure.
Burn in Hell, GOP, and fuck you.
Once again, I have posted--this time with multiple typos due to commenting out of pure anger.
Corrections: 1) "spoke out in protest about the Russian interference with the election..."
2) "....for their choice of world leader.."

Holy FUCK, and I haven't had any alcohol yet today, either. But I AM participating in the Women's March, and I want a knitted pink Pussyhat whether they're for sale at the event or not. I would wear one proudly in protest of the shameless monster taking over the White House and its cronies.
@96 & @97: In retrospect, maybe I was half right regarding one typo: Orangeman won't ever be a word leader, much an effective world leader--but more of a word manipulator.
Roast in hell, GOP pigs!
@98: Fuck----!!! Correction #3: "Orangeman will never be a word leader much less a world leader----but more of a word manipulator."

Sorry, Dan and everybody, about my rant and multiple angry posts. Let the Revolution begin!
One's too many and 100 ain't enough.
Dan, Joe, SL commenters--I really could use a shot of something strong right now.
And The Seattle Times is folding?? I know the printing industry is rapidly declining, but WTF?
No more comics, horoscopes, and puzzles? What to do when anything goes offline?
Anyone know what's truly weird? I just realized that today is / was my ex's birthday.
I am so relieved not to have any contact with him. He's a die-hard working class
Republican, fueled by anger, violence, and hatred propaganda. I'm sure he's gloating
about the truly rigged national election right now. So to drink alcohol any today
would be like raising a glass to my ex. Ugh. Perish the thought!
I'll wait until midnight---when January 8th starts instead, to imbibe.