Savage Love

Wishful Kinking

Comments

1
xdress = Victor's Secret. Love that site.
2
@BiDanFan, @CMD: I left you a comment on last week's DDD thread.
3
I'd love to see Brad Pitt in a Hanes underwear ad. I understand he used to model before his film career took off.
4
Oof! After checking out xdress--!! I'd love to see Brad Pitt lounging in a pair of xdress Speedos! It wouldn't surprise me if he already does.
Thanks for sharing the site, Dan!

@2 nocutename: I commented late back on last week's DDD too.
5
Good site Dan. Men in sexy fabrics like silk etc and lace, around their genitals is very hot.
Sure beats the saggy boxers a lot of men hang onto.
6
"Nothing outside of ultra-vanilla plain ol' two-person hetero sex within the confines of marriage is permissible,"

It's my understanding views on what sex is allowable vary considerably from Muslim culture to Muslim culture, but they usually (not always) treat sex-that's-not-approved a lot more seriously than the modern West. So, if you're actually going to a Muslim-majority country, it's worth checking what the laws and customs are in THAT country.
7
If "sex negative" = within the confines of marriage, then I guess Judaism is sex negative. Otherwise, I don't think it is accurate to label a religion that considers sex on the sabbath a special blessing and groups sexual pleasure alongside food and clothing as things that a man is obligated to give his wife as sex negative. As for ultra vanilla, just because people keep what they do private doesn't mean they aren't doing kinky things. They just aren't advertising it.
8
I agree with Dan's take on LW1's question about the hijabi women at the kinkfest. After that, our opinions diverge sharply.

LW2 - SHHH - no longer takes pleasure in BDSM play with a long-time lover in a poly relationship. Their deepening emotional connection has made it impossible for her to play an extreme sub role without taking the pain and humiliation personally, although she continues to enjoy similar play with other partners. Dan's says to "write a new erotic script" for their relationship, but SHHH already said in her letter that her boyfriend feels slighted because she no longer wants to play their favorite game with him, only with others. It's pretty hard to change the erotic script when only one partner has a problem with the existing dynamic - it's way more complicated than editing a few scenes in the movie version. If BF is hard-wired to only get off on extreme dom-sub play, I'd say that this is a clear case of DT-non-MFA. You can both be amazing, wonderful people, and still be totally incompatible as life partners.

LW3 - TMI - I interpreted as having a fetish for (previously worn) women's panties as masturbatory material, not as articles of clothing for himself. It's a lot harder to find women willing to accept and indulge the former kink than the latter.

I think LW4 - LISA - is totally for real. The writer is struggling with English translation and cultural barriers - most American adults would not use the term "sissy" to mean "gay" or "effeminate," and he has obviously sublimated his homoerotic urges into a desire to get his wife involved with the true love of his life - but his fantasy is specific enough that I believe him. It's not a classic cuckolding scenario - he doesn't want to watch them or even know for sure that they had sex, he just wants to be locked out of the house "dressed as a woman" and wait for his wife to let him back in after all bedroom activity has ended. In other words, he wants to be forced to appear in public dressed in women's clothing, and he is squeamish about watching his wife have hetero sex with someone else, even though he has urged her to consider it. It's quite possible that LW was assigned male at birth due to a micropenis, but cannot fully acknowledge his true nature in terms that his culture (and his own brain) can accept. Given that his wife comes from the same culture, she is likely to be less than GGG if he fully opens up to her about what he wants and needs to stay in the marriage.

9
I wouldn't think it would be all that unusual for people who came from a culture/religion that was very publicly sexually repressed or sex negative to be particularly aroused by transgression. And what could be more transgressive than women in religiously-ordained modest dress going to a big kink convention?*

Then of course, as Dan observes, maybe wearing the hijab and modest dress, in itself, is a fetish. Perhaps for both men and women.

*This, by the way, applies to more than one culture/religion that is publicly sexually repressed or sex negative.
10
@9 It could be a fetish, but it could also be that knowing there are somethings reserved to a couple is hot in itself. For instance, my husband finds my hair erotic, and he likes knowing that it isn't available to everyone to see. He likes that there are some things only for him.
11
I wondered why SHHH couldn't remove the humiliation play and see how that works? The beating might be harder to work around if that specific act is a problem, but humiliation play is a massive live wire -- it's hurtful to some people, hot as hell to others, and sometimes both to the same person in a complicated way. If it's her feelings that get hurt by the sort of play they used to do, why not see if the emotional tenor of the play can be changed without removing the kink? There are loads of dynamics out there to play with, and the erotic charge might not have to be lost just because the dynamic that used to work for you guys is too destabilizing now you're in love. If being beaten because you're trash is no longer working, how about being beaten because it's sexy and he thinks you're amazing for how much you can take?

Also: aftercare, loads of aftercare. Loving aftercare can be incredible, and vastly affirming to the emotional bond.
12
I don't know about Judaism or Islam, but Christianity itself isn't against sex or kink (barring, perhaps, non-monogamy or promiscuity), it just sets it within certain confines (marriage). There's nothing suggesting it's wrong to flog your spouse, pee on them, get pegged by them, or whatever, and in fact, it mentions the importance of regularly having sex unless there is some specific reason you can't or agree not to (I think it mentions period sex, but... I don't know, whatever).

I grew up Christian and became atheist, so I don't exactly have a rose-colored-glasses view of Christianity, but the idea that it pushes nothing but vanilla sex seems like the type of nonsense implications people dream up and assume it came from the bible.
13
SHHH's letter reads like a female and kink-oriented version of the Madonna-whore complex. The suggestion above to leave out the humiliation from the beatings is good, but might not work if the boyfriend's main kink is the humiliation.
14
LW 1: Yeah, that's just kinky people getting off by wearing religious garb - think Naughty Nuns.

LW 2: Well, you're poly, so there's a good chance that the two of you can agree that the kink stays in the other relationships.

LW 3: Just sex a guy already.
15
LL; I responded to you on last week's thread.
16
Nocute- Thanks for the sympathy. I have no illusions, actually just having fun.

Some related-or-not international observations:
It is my very own subjective one that the Moslem female attire is gaining some sexy popularity in the kink circles and beyond. Whether the people mentioned were genuine Moslems or genuine fetishists, maybe even both, is unclear.
I can relate to the “this feels so out of context” while experiencing a sexy vibe that keeps growing over time.

Some 10-15 years ago I read a news story about sex ed in Iran where newly weds were, maybe still are, offered government-sponsored classes dealing with contraception and beyond. One of the female instructors was quoted saying something like, “We have a long sexual enjoyment history and we want to make sure it is passed to the younger generation.”

Some 30 years ago I read a book about India and at some point a local man was discussing sex. “For you westerners it’s not so much what you do, but with how many partners. For us it’s doing it all with our spouse.”

17
@ 12 - In case you don't know, christian religions have a long history of a) not following what the bible says, and b) being very sex-negative, encouraging only PIV for the purpose of procreation.

It most definitely is not stuff that people dream up; it's what they've been taught by their religion.

Also: read saint Paul, the mother of all sex-negativeness. It's in the bible.
18
As for the cross dressing stuff:

Sissy husband sounds a bit incoherent, and indeed very possibly fake. Panty fetishist is likely to be genuine, and yet I’m wondering who the xdress.com site potential clients are.
Is Dan’s enthusiasm meaning gay men are or is he only after their bodies? And while it is absolutely wonderful that people embrace cross dressing and more, most people like myself would go exclusively with clothing items made for women regardless of the fitting challenges.

Do straight women find this particular attire exciting? And I don’t mean on the fit waxed models, but on their ordinary looking - hairy, a bit of a potbelly, and semi bald - men?
Do straight men share the excitement?

Most important: where on some Kinsey or any other scale are we going to be placed by our in-house classification expert???
19
CMD @ 16 - Over the years, I've had sex with at least a dozen married Indian men*, so no, it's not about doing it all with their spouse. That's the kind of lie people come up with to feel culturally superior.

*Only one of which was actually gay and had been forced into an arranged marriage. The others were happily bisexual... but didn't give much of a shit about what their spouse felt about their straying.
20
As for Christianity, or at least Catholicism, I find it very odd that men who supposedly never had sex in their lifetime are the authority to tell all others how to do it or not.
21
Cap @ 8 - "most American adults would not use the term "sissy" to mean "gay" or "effeminate,""

Most American adults who don't get off on denigrating gays as sissies, that is.

Also, if LISA truly were from South America, he most probably would have described his penis as being less than 5 centimeters in length, not less than two inches.

At any rate, if this is a true story, the solution is simple: he should get a divorce, and start living life as a gay man or with some degree of "transness', whichever suits him. South America is not necessarily hell for LGBTs, you know. From Wikipedia: "South America was the first continent to have a majority of its inhabitants living in a jurisdiction that afforded same-sex couples the right to marry."
22
@17: You're right that Christians have a long history of not doing what the Bible says. But don't credit fundamentalist or certain strains of RC sex-negativeness ("only PIV for the purpose of procreation") to Paul. No. It is much more complicated than that.

Paul in 1 Corinthians: "Do not deprive each other except perhaps by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control."

In other words: Keep having sex with each other, except temporarily and if you *both* agree. But don't stop having sex entirely, which is a terrible idea, because you will be so horny you will get into even worse trouble.

"I wish that all of you were as I am. But each of you has your own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that." In other words: I wish that all of you were celibate. But that's incredibly hard, and we're not all called to it, and a loving, full-of-sex marriage is perfectly fine.

"Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

One more time: not everyone is called to celibacy, so get married and have married sex, and there's nothing wrong with it, and unbridled horniness will get you into trouble.

Now, you may fault Paul for valorizing married sex over unmarried sex (which he absolutely does). You may fault Paul for his first-century belief that women should submit to their husbands (generally, not sexually). You may fault Paul for his understanding of marriage as male-female. But Paul explicitly told Christians that there is nothing wrong with married sex, and husbands and wives should realize they should be having regular sex with each other, and it's wrong to unilaterally withhold sex from your spouse (1 Cor 7:3). Paul also didn't give a damn about sex "for procreation." He thought the world was going to end any day!

In this sense (maybe it's his Catholic upbringing), I find Dan's advice to spouses with dead bedrooms to be very Pauline: there is nothing wrong with being upset that your marriage is sexless, and if you refuse to have sex with your spouse on a permanent basis, don't be surprised that your spouse will want and seek sex elsewhere. Now Paul and Dan certainly disagree on the solution to that problem, but they are in agreement on that.

The real "sex-negative" culprit in Christian history is Augustine, but that's another story.
23
@ 22 - "But don't credit fundamentalist or certain strains of RC sex-negativeness... to Paul"

That's not what I actually said.

His emphasis is always that it's better to be celibate, though, and that (married) sex is acceptable because it allows you to avoid bigger sins. Is that not being sex-negative? I dare say it is. In his view, sex is never seen as good in itself (probably since he was deprived of it because he was deformed, and could not find anyone to have sex with him even in spite of his wealth).

"Paul also didn't give a damn about sex "for procreation."

I didn't say he did. I was talking about christian religions. It's the old "be fruitful and multiply" bit.

"He thought the world was going to end any day!"

If he truly thought the world was coming to an end, why did he do so much to set up and promote his religion, all the way to Rome? (Because let's face it, catholicism is his religion, not Jesus', since JC merely wanted to establish a new covenant for jews, not create a new religion.)

I also dare say Paul had posterity on his mind...
24
@22 Rocket Queen and @23 Ricardo: Paul reeks to high heaven for his known biblically misogynistic treatment of women (who, under his authority weren't allowed to sing in church among many other bullshit patriarchal restrictions in my honest opinion). He's not my favorite among Christ's apostles, for sure. If Paul thought the world was going to end any day, could he have long foreseen the disastrous rises of both Hitler and most recently Trumpzilla to corruption, dictatorship, and shameless abuse of power?
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.
25
Yeah, Paul's bad (I always read him a self-loathing gay man who finds it easy to be celibate where women are concerned because he has contempt for them and is not himself sexually attracted to them), but Augustine's worse. Full Christian sex-negativity is definitely a product of Augustinian teachings. Better to cut your hand off than to masturbate with it.
26
CMDwannabe@20 – THAT'S the one thing you find odd about Catholicism? How about the wafers & wine actually turn into the body & blood of Christ as you eat them. That is some fucked-up shit my friend.
27
Auntie @ 24 - I love the fact that you used the expression "reeks to high heaven"; if he reaks TO high heaven, obviously, it's because he's nowhere near there.

Having been shunned by women all of his life because of his deformity, Paul made sure women would pay when he managed to obtain some sort of power. His outlook on life - and, therefore, his religious doctrine - is (almost) completely a product of the frustrations he felt and the humiliation he was submitted to for being physically repulsive, and his stewardship of the nascent christian movement is (almost) completely owed to the fact that he had a lot of money.

And that's the catholic religion in a nutshell: money, humiliation and frustrations.
28
Nocute @ 25 - I perceive Augustine, he of the "Lord, make me chaste... but not yet" prayer, more as an example of catholic hypocrisy: "I had a full, sexually satisfying life, but you mustn't."

Jerome and Gregory of Nyssa, both contemporaries of Augustine, were even stricter in relation with the pleasures of the flesh.
29
LW 3 is definitely fake...it reads like a tumblr caption posited as a question.

As for the other stuffs, Dan's answers were cool.

The Muslim hijab honeys were a lil' bizarre though... If I was there, I'd be worried they were hiding bombs and going to blow up all of us sex- crazed godless infidels! 😂
30
@20 CMDwannabe: I second that---very odd indeed. What also stumps me is the belief that Catholics can supposedly "buy off" their sins. My older sister married into a Catholic family, fervently believes that greed is good, and that screwing family and friends before they screw you is even better. Yet she's managed to con enough people into believing she's lily-white that I'm glad I moved to another county from her. I just can't live or think like that.
@25: nocutename: Yikes about Augustine! Now THAT'S extremism gone way too far.
@27 Ricardo: "And that's the catholic religion in a nutshell: money, humiliation and frustrations." You nailed it. Beautifully summarized, my friend.
31
@28 Ricardo: I obviously wouldn't want to meet Augustine cronies Jerome or Gregory of Nyssa, either.
32
*sigh* about Catholicism. I'd much rather daydream about Brad Pitt prancing around in a pair of xdress Speedos.
33
Griz @ 31 - Don't worry, they're long dead. Brad Pitt, on the other hand, is still alive and officially available. Daydream on...
34
@33 Ricardo: Brad may well already have some lucky Hollywood lady by now. In reality I'd have to manage passing muster with Brad himself, his kids (he was awarded custody of all 6 in the divorce settlement from Angie), his parents, and bodyguards. If he has been dating, fucking, and marrying strikingly beautiful women like Jennifer Aniston and Angelina Jolie, he surely wouldn't be attracted to more average-looking gals like me. But I can still treasure Brad's role as J.D. in Thelma & Louise--"---yep, yep........that's him going......(drool) I loooooove watching him go..."
35
@33 & @34, continued: So I guess Brad fantasies are my Wishful Kinking.
36
Griz @ 34 - You never know. Jude Law cheated on picture-perfect Sadie Frost with a rather less model-like babysitter.
37
Sex, religion, culture, crossdressing- lots of good stuff this week.

Donny- I was referring to what I know as I’m not that familiar with Christianity nor the new testament.

In the old one though they fuck left and right. Abraham’s wife, Sarah, couldn’t conceive and told hubbie it’s ok to have a child with the maid, only to demand later to kick them both out. She was later visited by two angels who told her she will have a child. She already reached menopause and started laughing, yet ended up doing it with both angels on the spot.
Her son, Isaac, pronounced “Yitzhak” in Hebrew, means “he will laugh” after her initial laugh. The verb the bible is using for sex in that story and some others sound like a cross between laughing and playing.

Famous kings like David and Solomon fucked everyone in sight. David even had a male lover. Solomon gets the credit for writing the Song of Songs which has some nice sexual stuff in it.

I think that as religions evolved the clergy realized that one way to manipulate the masses is controlling sexuality.
It’s interesting that the Talmud was written more or less at the same time as the Kama Sutra, so while we keep debating they’re busy multiplying.
38
Aunt Zelda-
"Speedo" is your assumingly straight interpretation of that site. Those hunks wear "panties," or at the very least "men's underwear with a feminine touch."
39
The "burkha thing" reminds me of a cultural oxymoron. The Muslim world is supposed to be so chaste and yet there is the very sexy belly-dancer tradition. How can their culture support both of this opposing ideas at the same time?
40
Oh yeah, Jerome. What a piece of work.
42
Hunter @ 41 - You mean to tell me that "sissy" has been reclaimed and I didn't know about it?

Is there a plot to make me lose my gay card by letting me go uninformed of such important developments?
43
sb53 @ 39 - In my opinion, cultural oxymorons exist precisely because a given culture is so prone to doing something that may be to its detriment, or simply not to the liking of its authorities for whatever reason, that it eventually becomes strictly forbidden. In order to avoid revolutions, though, said authorities allow for the enjoyment of the mildest, most innocuous forms of the prohibited behaviour. Belly dancing is basically just a way for men to let off some of the abundant steam accumulated by preventing women from showing any bit of flesh.
44
You guys have read the bible and remember it?
I think the microdick person is also fake. Good catch Ricardo, calling his dick in inches.
Though i worried what they'd do if the woman stayed out all night or it rained.
45
@18CMD. I'd have to see lingerie on a man as you described before making a decision. Re pot belly etc. The man has to be into it, and with soft fabrics, instead of three thousand times washed boxers, it would be much more inviting to play with his genitals thru the fabric. That's my fantasy, as I've never in the flesh been with a man who wears lingerie. And so the models on the site work fine for my purposes.
46
Worrying about what a bunch of glory seekers wrote zillions of years ago is so tedious. Why do so many people hang on to these religions with their bullshit rules delivered by men.
And it's time Kinsey was put to bed too. The sexual/ gender landscape is way past what he could try to qualify.
47
Lava @ 44 - I read the bible 40 years ago, age 11 (one of many boring, rainy summers in my hometown), and promptly declared myself an atheist, as I realized it had clearly been written by men with a serious mysogynistic bent, twisted family values (Lot and his daughters, anyone?), and political ambitions. Not to mention the total disregard for science or history that has only come to light since, well... since we have science and history to show that it's all lies.

In the last 10 years, I've read various books that studied and analyzed how the bible had been mistranslated, manipulated, and modified by the catholic church over the course of centuries, etc. That's a lot more fun, and that's what I mostly remember.

"i worried what they'd do if the woman stayed out all night or it rained"

They'd look very, very silly.
48
Lava, Ricardo- Bible stuff and rain
I grew up in a secular community and we studied parts of the bible as possible history while-surprise, surprise- debating much of it.
Even when you read the bible in its original language it’s not always clear what is really going on, hence the many interpretations. And for every glorified quote of this or that person there are few contradicting ones by other biggies.

As for Lot, I felt at the time that this is an attempt to smear the folks that supposedly originated from the famous cave shenanigans and have settled in what is now southern Jordan. Interestingly few months ago I attended a reading event in which someone alluded to the story. I approached her once it was over and after presenting my conspiracy theory she said that this is exactly what people from that geography have been claiming all along.

As for staying out in the rain, this may be part of the deal in some situations and very possibly also appealing to some.

49
@18 CMD, as lady who likes to sleep with men (bi, but who's counting), I'm actually a bit sad that this is the first time I'm hearing about xdress.com. I must be their target audience. I'm definitely going to ask the fiance if he's down. He's long, lean, muscular (and hairy, but only because I prefer it). However, I think the look would be just as much of a turn-on, maybe even more so, with a larger man. But I have a particular thing for larger men. Even more of a thing for big, butchy men who dabble outside of gender norms. I dated a beautiful 300lb Nordic blonde who used to flirt constantly with my best male friend (looked like a young Meatloaf) just to tease me ... now, those two in some xdress lacy underthings... hoo boy. Maybe there's not a huge audience, but I can't be the only one who's very into that.
50
CMD @18, I agree with lvg @49, cross-dressing can be a very exciting component of straight lovemaking - and no, you don't have to have a model-perfect face and figure to push all the right erotic buttons. It's super-hot IMO if you can don your partner's undies (perhaps with a few extra pieces of clothing on top, so you can surprise them when you undress), although obviously this requires partners who are reasonably close to each other in size. If that's not an option, I agree with CMD that authentic items designed and sized for people with female parts are much more sexy-looking and sexy-feeling than the crap lovely lingerie designed specifically for cross-dressing men at sites such as xdress.com.
51
Crap, I mean to intentionally strike through the word "crap" in my comment @50. It worked on the preview....
52
@38 CMDwannabe: Excuse me---they looked like Speedos when I visited the xdress site. At least the bright, less lacy ones did. I guess I'm thinking of my U.S. Navy days. But I see what you mean--they're made to look and feel more feminine like panties (a.k.a Victor / Victoria's Secret).
@39 sb53: This sorta reminds me of the 1960s I Dream of Jeannie controversy: Barbara Eden dances, turns on astronaut Larry Hagman, folds her arms and blinks in a sexy pink harem costume-----gasp!--BUT!!!!---she couldn't DARE reveal her navel! Otherwise the TV censors would have gone batshit crazy and likely have cancelled the show.
53
@47 Ricardo: That's largely why I haven't read much in the bible over the last few decades, either.
So many printed versions, yet so few accurate and non-hypocritical translations. At the risk of my becoming redundant, my older sister boasts of being so exemplary a Christian, but rarely ever practices what she preaches. When she does it's like she deserves The Congressional Medal of Honor and a bronze statue of her likeness in the town square.
54
Cap @50, Yes. It would be ideal to see a man in my own undergarments since I buy what I like, but I'm a dress size 4, S or XS bottoms. Even a very slender guy would probably stretch the fabric beyond repair... and then there's my penchant for the fuller-figured.
55
@36 Ricardo: So Jude dumped Sadie for a plainjane like me (envision a 52 year old Daria Morgandorffer from 1990s MTV--glasses, long, straight, auburn hair, jacket & boots, but in yogas instead of a pleated skirt and a broader, V-shaped upper frame). I'll have to think about that.
I'm going to have to watch Thelma & Louise again tonight----one sweet thing about fantasies---they're entertaining and can't possibly hurt.
56
Lava Girl @5: I'll have you know that those "saggy boxers a lot of men hang onto" are, in fact, hanging onto me. So there.
57
Ricardo @21: Good catch on the cm-vs-inches thing, although Dan may have edited the letter since so many Americans are hopeless with metric conversion. I gotta say, the letter still rings true to me. I don't see how a troll comes up with the locked-out-of-the-house-in-drag scenario.

I don't disagree with your suggestions on the best ways for LISA to solve his problems. However, I think your WIKI entry failed to account for the strong influence of the Roman Catholic church in South America, which may be affecting LISA's choices significantly. I haven't been down there on business for about a decade, but the people I met were all devoutly religious...or at least they appeared to be, to a frequent visitor. It doesn't matter if the LGBT community has been granted equal legal rights, if you truly believe what you have been taught by the Church - that engaging in "unnatural" sexual activity is a mortal sin. (Even just THINKING "impure thoughts" is a venial sin that requires confession and forgiveness, if you are a pious Catholic. It's one of the many reasons I left the faith decades ago.) That's the cultural double-bind where LISA may be feeling stuck and frustrated. I think that may be why he's trying to express his gay and/or trans nature by proxy, urging his wife to have sex with his best friend rather than pursuing the desired friend himself.
58
Ivg, Capri

I’m delighted you’re into this kind of stuff and that it’s also likely to work for you!
I know it works in some m/f relations, yet what I perceived as Dan’s source of enthusiasm, and enhanced after the fact by Auntie’s “speedo,” made me wonder how many may find the idea somewhat appealing because of the attractive models, but far less so when it comes to a real life partners.
Here’s another company you might like, an Australian one that emphasizes m/f relations and also has some videos:
http://shop.hommemystere.com/

That said, unless you already have lots of other sexy stuff happily going on I would urge folks to refrain from introducing cross dressing to their partners by surprising them with wearing something that belongs to them. This may add another level to the possible anxiety, making them worry their partner was wearing their clothes all along without their permission.
It still sounds like a fun idea and I trust Capri that it could/did/will work for them.

59
CMD @58: I'm too shy to provide personal details - but I can assure you that it could, it did, and it will. I have never experienced anything other than sheer pleasure and intense arousal, for both myself and my partner, when revealing such delightful "surprises." But then again, my partner doesn't mind if I occasionally borrow items from their wardrobe without their express permission (and vice versa), and you are probably right in thinking that this might create anxiety in other relationships.

Also, as I pointed out @8, many straight women - even those who are not intensely turned on themselves by the visuals and the touching, as many are - will tolerate, or even facilitate, their partner's interest in cross-dressing. As kinks go, this is fairly common and therefore among the easiest to be able to find a GGG partner, or cultivate a new sexual pastime with the partner you already have. A rarer kink, though still not way-out-there, involves sniffing and jerking on previously worn, unwashed women's panties as a masturbatory or lovemaking aid. That was how I interpreted LW3's query to Dan.
60
@56 saxfanatic. Hit a truth did I?
I've always found male genitals clothed
in their briefs/ boxers to be very erotic.
Not long ago on a train in Brisbane, there was a mob of people who got on the train in their undies. It was undies day or something. Don't ask me, I've never heard of it. City people, they are so cute.
So this group of them come into my carriage, seats flip up section, and they are all standing about. One young man got my attention. His genitals nicely housed in a cute pair of boxers. I was tempted to cop a feel, I resisted.
Underwear matters!
61
CMD @58, Oh! Why, thank you for the link! I like that there are less full-body shots of the models.. makes it easier to picture the wearer in mind.
Cap @ 8&59, maybe I'm running in the wrong circles and the typical size differential with male partners would make such a sexy surprise impossible. In my 5-year stint as a stripper I met dozens of (paying) lady's underwear sniffers and only one known wearer. It's probably just the venue, but until now I assumed the former was more commonplace and had the same take on LW3's question as you until I read Dan's response. Do you find the fetish is more common with men and women are likely to oblige because of it's innocuous nature?
63

@39 While I agree with what Ricardo says in part, the sexualization of Middle Eastern dance that so many people associate with belly dancing comes in large part from Westerners overlaying their orientalist erotic fantasies on those cultures and their traditions. Certainly the 2-piece bra and belt costume was a Western invention that was then adapted back into Middle Eastern culture in large part through films.

The dance itself has a long, complicated and often unclear history, but one thing to keep in mind is that there is a huge difference between the dance as performed by professionals and non-professionals. People all over the middle east dance what could be called "belly dance" at parties, weddings, etc. Dance and music are beloved parts of the culture for many people and this dance is simply a way for people to express and share their enjoyment with each other. Often women will dance together at all-female parties where no men are even allowed.

However, professional belly dancers are pretty much viewed as prostitutes in Middle Eastern countries, and this is where I would agree with Ricardo that in that case, they are so popular with men precisely because the cultures are so sexually restrictive. Watching a belly dance performance is a way, in this case, for them to "let off some steam". Basically, everyone loves belly dance but god forbid their sister or daughter should ever become a dancer!

The situation in the West is a whole different story but for anyone who is interested in the cultural and historical aspects of belly dance, I highly recommend this website by the dancer Morocco as a good starting point: http://www.casbahdance.org/musings/artic…
64
Hmm I don't know what happened to the link, but it should say articles at the end
65
Cap @ 57 "the people I met were all devoutly religious...or at least they appeared to be"

Yes. Do not mistake ostentation with actual observation of dogma. From my experience in Mexico (which is not in South America, but is a Latin-American culture nonetheless), people worship the symbols of catholicism and, more importantly, the virgin of Guadalupe (which is actually a pre-columbian era deity that was coopted by the catholic church). They put up altars in their homes and on street corners, and on religious holidays, they go to church carrying a statue or frame depicting the relevant saint.

But the fact is that they live their lives pretty much according to a different set of values, mother worship and the family being its main features. They're mostly unaware of the actual precepts of their religion, and they mix it up with all sorts of other beliefs, like the Santa Muerte, or Holy Death. They have their brujo/bruja (witch doctor/clairvoyant/whatever) - which they all assure me is very good - and they trust them more than their priest. Many times, I have quoted Jesus' (alleged) better known declarations to Mexican catholics who really didn't have a clue what I was talking about.

So although no one is going to say that they want a gay child, they still accept them a lot more than in other, supposedly more tolerant societies in which I've lived... because they're family, and that trumps religion.

I know this is merely a personal conclusion derived from anecdotal observations of a proportionally small sample of Mexican gay men, but still: out of a few hundred gay men who've told me about their family life (as they are wont to do), nearly all of which were out to their family (the others belonged to an older generation that didn't talk about those things, but it was obvious that everyone knew), only ONE of them had been rejected by his... although he was quick to add: "But that's because I'm jewish" (which in Mexico is generally shorthand for "from a richer family with a reputation to protect").

So yeah... don't believe the hype.
66
Ivg @61, lol, I don't have an expert opinion to offer on this. Half the time I can't figure out the motivations that drive my own relationship preferences, let alone those of other couples!

As a size 4 with a preference for BBMs, you can still get that sexy surprise you crave. Take his waist measurement, then go shopping for him in plus-size lingerie shops for the styles, colors, and fabrics you like to wear yourself. Most of the materials used today have stretch built into them, so they will mold to his physique when he slides them on. Give your purchase(s) to him on his next birthday (or yours), and invite him to surprise you at a future time of his choosing!
67
Ricardo @65, thanks for the additional insight regarding Latin American culture vs. the Catholic faith. Family love and unity is ultimately more important than the religious dogma - sure would be nice if more people in the USA felt that way. Heck, most days I'd settle for "I'll just mind my own business, and let you mind yours."

I'm not sure this sheds any more light on whether LISA's letter was fake or not, though.
68
CMD @ 48 - Your explanation of the Lot story is very interesting. Thanks !

Cap @ 67 - "I'm not sure this sheds any more light on whether LISA's letter was fake or not, though"

Actually no, it doesn't. I just went off on a tangent. But the ultimate point of this is that we shouldn't project our vision of how religious a nation is as an explanation of all the problems everyone in that country can have. Because remember that from the outside, the U.S. is one of the most religious and intolerant countries on earth... and I'm pretty sure than in actual fact, religion is not the root of all the problems Americans face.
69
In fetish circles, "sissy" isn't used synonymously with "gay." It refers to men (generally self-described straight) who are into "forced" feminization -- men "forced" to dress in drag. Sometimes pegging, cuckolding, or "forced" bisexual activities are included, but it varies.
70
Kevin @ 69 - Thanks for that info. So now we (the uninitiated) know what we're talking about. (And congrats for getting the magic spot this week!)

That makes me question even more the authenticity of LISA's letter. I seriously doubt someone from Latin America would know all the specialized Anglo-Saxon lingo.

The use of strap-on, pass out and nighties also make me doubt that this man is South American. So does the structure "who I am very attracted to", since it would be in the active voice in Spanish - que me atrae mucho -, a language that doesn't put prepositions at the end of propositions. It would therefore probably be written "who attracts me very much" by a true Spanish speaker, or even "that attracts me very much" if he struggled with English, as Capricornius suggested @ 8.

The whole letter feels like a native English speaker who tried to insert a few clumsy structures to pass for South American, but whose knowledge of the linguistic characteristics of other languages is too weak (i.e. nil) to succeed at it.
71
Kevin @ 69 is right on the submissive sissy phenomenon. I think many crossdressers/transwomen of any shade are on the submissive side due to the ongoing guilt associated with the secretive, shameful, and often sexualized aspects of our early (and often beyond) dressing up habits.
It can be also related to some traditional roles that women are/were often associated with.

One of the reason we are fairly well represented in the kink community is because this community is one of the very few to accept us over the years. Drag shows are also an acceptable outlet.

72
I didn't find LISA to be especially fake. He comes off like any other number of dudes that enjoys being humiliated. Other than the fact that he's apparently gay, I don't know that anything ticks off my BS detector.
73
@70 Is that Marsupilami? Asking because I love, love LOVE Spirou et Fantasio! I mean, I was literally in love with Spirou as a kid, hee.
74
Iseult @ 70 - Yes it is. He was my favourite character in the Spirou et Fantasio comics - although I might have been lusting a bit for Spirou, too !

The book I like best is QRN sur Bretzelburg. Maybe I'm showing my age, there.
75
@73 I also think LISA is fake, he has a micro penis and doesn't get turned on by women at all, yet he is married to a woman! He's turned on by men and lived with, shared a bed with, and seem to have been in love with his male "best friend", yet says he did the "women's work" while they lived together. And he wants to be cuckold and locked outside in women's clothing while his wife has sex with his "best friend" whom he has the hots for!

I've never met a gay man who'd denigrate house work or cooking - I'm assuming this is what he was referring to - as women's work, and implies a belief that wearing women clothing is humiliating! Of course that doesn't mean they're not out there, but these are usually hetero men's anti-women tropes. Added to that the micro penis and the calling himself a sissy - things that hetero men who are homophobic are always spouting! Sounds more like the Gropenführer's goose-stepping troops than someone who'd write to Dan for advice.

76
@74 They've finally translated some of the S & F books into English now, so lots of American kids are probably reading them. I used to have to buy them from Canada or Belgium, or get my dad to send them from France, the p&p was appallingly high since I only wanted the hard backs. Never could understand why we had Tintin, and even Astérix were available here, but not Spirou et Fantasio!

True fact, I went into science because I wanted to find an animal like Marsupilami, hee hee!
77
I mean @72, not myself in my #75 post!
78
Iseult @ 76 That's brilliant! It's time American kids get enlightened. Hopefully they'll translate Gaston next. And Asterix... I hassled my mom so she would teach me to read when I was 3 or 4, just so I could read my brother' and sisters' Asterix books. The strange thing is that it was translated into so many languages when its full of impossible-to-translate wordplay and adult jokes (that I only understood on my fifth reading or so, as a teen). But even though I didn't get all of it the first few times round, at least it introduced me to the concept of orgies at a very early age.

If for no other reason than the French and Belgian comics of my youth, I'm very happy French is my mother tongue.

@ 77 - I was beginning to think you had a (drug?) problem there.
79
Yes Iseult, what a good reading of the sissy boy LW. My doubt was raised when I saw the name of his bf printed, Ricardo, and thought it a play on our man here, The Ricardo.
Coming out of the cracks now, the cockroaches.
81
Shit you're right hunter. Not often that is said around here. I read it as Ricardo.. my mind is slipping. Maybe it's the similarity that struck me, along with the rest of the ludicrous story.
82
CMDwannabe: Please forgive me for mislabeling xdress panties as "Speedos"---I only meant (in @4 & @32) that the brightly colored, snugly fitting ones in particular looked like Speedos----in a complimentarily sexy way. My use of "Speedo" wasn't meant as a slur.
@69 Kevin_BGFH: Congrats on scoring this week's lucky number!
@80 Hunter and @81 LavaGirl: I know LISA is a LW--confusion about the BF's name? If the BF's real name is coincidentally Ricardo, did Dan fictionalize the BF's name to Roberto (possible protection and anonymity of the LW and BF) and sparing us misguided association with The Ricardo (@78 et. al)? Good you caught and clarified that.
83
@82: Okay. Now I'm up to date after going back to re-read Wishful Kinking. Jesus, I can't believe I totally missed LISA's letter! It reads like a soap opera. Even Dan wonders if it's fake. Obviously I was too busy drooling over xdress.com panties and Brad in faded, unzipped Levi's this week.
84
Maybe I'm reading too much US politics.
I'm seeing conspiracies all over. How do you guys deal with it? And what's the plan re massive increase in defence with trump's first budget.
No Grizelda, Dan didn't change the name in the letter. It was my mis remembering. Though when I read it, with cross dressing and how crowded with images and story lines, I jumped to the conclusion it was someone taking the mickey. It's the sort of letter some of our trolls might think up.
Then again, like I said, I'm seeing stuff that may not be there.

85
@75 iseult: I agree--now that I have read and given LISA's letter more scrutiny, it really does sound made up.
@84 LavaGirl: I realize that now that in LISA's letter no name-changing was needed (it's Roberto, not Ricardo. I made the same mistake--sorry, Ricardo!!). I think you're right, too, that the LW is quite possibly one of our overdramatizing trolls at play.
86
Aunt Zelda- nothing to worry about, I never saw it as a "slur," just wanted to make a point as I explained earlier. Besides, there are no eggshells :)

87
@86 CMDwannabe: How about coconut shells instead (I couldn't resist)?
88
@87:....I meant, to go with the xdress.com panties?
89
"Islam is another one of the blatantly sex-negative Abrahamic faiths."

And yet somehow there are Christian sexy people and Christian kinksters.

(That said, I think cosplay is pretty likely what he saw.)
91
Aunt Zelda,
Based on our conversation with Ricardo few weeks ago I assume we all agree that the body parts nesting in those speedos/ “feminine inspired men’s underwear” are indeed on the "eggs" side. Hopefully no shells involved.
One can always think bigger (and fuzzier) regardless.
92
Hunter @ 90 et al. - I can at least guarantee you all that it wasn't me. I don't have a best friend with a 5 cm penis who I slept with for two years (with or without having sex with him) and who is now married to a woman. And as everyone here knows, I'm not straight (not that it needed repeating).
94
@ 93 - Actually, nowhere is it said that Roberto did anything more than let the LW do the "women's work" and tell him that he had small, feminine hands.
96
It’s been awhile since we passed the 100 comments threshold by the end of Friday, so here I am doing my share:
Some people are extremely eager to define others’ sexuality, arguing almost as passionately as they would while discussing women’s hair styles and split ends.
97
Hunter @ 95 - It's typical of any country where people are too poor to buy beds for everyone. I've seen or heard of such arrangements in Mexico, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, Cuba... and of course, in poorer times of the past, in the U.S., Canada, and various parts of Europe.
98
Greetings all from sunny holidayland. I haven't read this week's comments, but just wanted to let Nocute @2 know I've checked last week's thread and thoroughly agree. My thought was "I bet you also believe the Earth is flat, right?" Lost causes indeed.

I read LISA as fake as well. Congratulations, bored troll, you got Dan to print the most ridiculous letter you could think up. Well done you!
99
Hunter78 @95: Your geography is as poor as your understanding of sexual orientation. Mexico is not in South America.
My reading of LISA's letter improved greatly when I pictured Ricardo as "Roberto." The "queen-sized bed" was a clue that the whole thing was made up by someone mocking a typical Dan LW. Two "straight" male friends who could afford a "queen-sized bed" could afford to sell it and buy two twin beds. South America is not that impoverished a continent.

As for SHHH, I can understand her dilemma. I too think that they could explore forms of D/s that don't involve humiliation. Or, as they're poly, she could go on dates with other lovers and perhaps that would reactivate her inner desire to be called a dirty slut by her partner. Or they could bring in a second man to team-dominate her. I wish them luck.
100
Whoops, my assumptions about South American sleeping practices are disproven by Ricardo himself @99. (See how easy it is to back off a ridiculous assumption when corrected by someone with far more knowledge of a given topic than oneself?) I still think LISA is fake though. How did he get a wife? Smells as fishy as the paella I enjoyed on the beach last night.
101
All hail BDF! We're officially over 100 and it's only 2 pm in Savageville (aka "the eternal sun-less holidayland.")
102
BiDan@98 – "you got Dan to print the most ridiculous letter you could think up.
Only about a 4 on the ridiculous scale, though if they score much higher they don't get published. As opposed to my college letter to Penthouse Forum about my trip to the zoo where I accidentally fell into the tiger pit and was forced to fuck the tiger until I could be rescued. Best cat sex I ever had! And roughly on par with the rest of the PF letters for believability.
103
BDF @ 99 - Don't blame Hunter (this time, at least). Since he was talking to me, and I made a comparison earlier in the thread between Mexico and South America (since they're all part of Latin America), his comment about Mexico was just a reference to what I would know of a somewhat similar situation.

As for your assumption @ 99... this hypothetical guy could be from Venezuela, for example. That's impoverished enough.

The funny thing is that it's the only part of the letter I have no doubt about. I've seen this sort of arrangement between straight students sometimes, who have to study away from home and rent a room that's too small for two beds. They can't afford a room of their own, so they have to share. But even if the room were bigger, they'd rather spend their money on an iPhone than an additional bed.

But since you live in Britain, you are perhaps not unaware of the ridiculous price of accommodations in London. When I lived there, a long, long time ago, I shared a 2 bedroom flat with 6 other people in Shepard's Bush for a while. Two straight guys did sleep in one double bed, as there simply was no other possible arrangement (I, being the last to come into the flatshare, slept on cushions on the floor). And yet, Britain is a rich country...

What I find more dubious is the thought of a straight guy who shares a bed with a man he knows to be gay and regularly passes out drunk on it. In Mexican culture (perhaps not South American), that's an invitation for the gay man to at least suck his dick, the alcohol being the perfect excuse for the straight guy to pretend he doesn't remember a thing and thus keep his straight credentials intact while enjoying regular blowjobs.
104
Donny @102: Obviously the most ridiculous letter some losers could think up pales in comparison to your talent :)

Ricardo @103: It was the "queen bed" bit that rang strange. That detail just struck me as odd.
105
Indeed - reading your London story confirms that if they were poor, it would be more likely a double bed, and he'd have just said "we shared a bed."
London just has ridiculous property prices. You'd blanch at what rents are like these days!
106
BDF @ 104 - Yes, the fact that he specifies it was a queen bed sounds odd, but since they call it a "cama Queen" or "cama Queen size", it's not really that odd. It might simply have been the bed that came with the rented room, or he just wanted to throw the word "queen" in there, in keeping with the sissy theme.

As for London, I dare not set foot there again. The last time I was there, ten years ago, I went to Camden Market, where I used to buy all sorts of really great clothes real cheap in the late 80s/early 90s, I was quite taken aback by how it had become gentrified and thoroughly expensive in 15 years. And I also lived in Hackney for a while, which at the time made me the social equivalent of a leper, and from what I read, it's totally trendy and (of course) unaffordable now.

Gone is the London of my youth, indeed.