Savage Love Mar 22, 2017 at 4:00 am

Curious Minds

Comments

1
That's it? Nothing more on Justin Trudeau? I thought EVERYONE was into Justin Trudeau.
2
In case no one noticed, Dan answered questions 6 & 7 with question 8, in a generic sort of way.

Oh, and I hope I'm still FIRDT!
3
Crap! That's what I get for thinking of others...
4
'I'm a bisexual 42-year-old female with an extremely high sex drive who squirts with every orgasm. How do I deal with friendsā€”even people at a sex clubā€”who think you're a freak because "women aren't supposed to be horny all the time."'

ITYM 'friends', and the answer is... erm... fuck if I know. Dose them with mythical-massive-aphrodisiac and tell them to deal? Get friends who don't shame you for having an actual sex drive? (The second is probably more viable; hell, I'm someone who's on anti-depressants _and_ dealing with his wife having cancer (FUCK cancer, no, really, FUCK cancer), and as far as I can tell from letters to Dan, even given that I'm dealing with that combination (and I know for a fact that the anti-depressants are fucking with (in the sense of eradicating) at least 90% of my sex drive) and I've never had to deal with that; whether that's the result of me being male (entirely possible, but honestly I've never paid much attention to sex or gender roles; give me a button which swaps my gender and I'd probably end up male no more than 50% of the time (depends on how bad periods are and just how good multiple orgasms are; I have trouble believing it would end up tilting in the direction of 'male' though)) or just me being lucky I don't know, but bugger anyone (ideally with Carolina Reaper peppers... I have Issues with people who judge others on their sex drives) who says there's anything wrong with you....
5
dstar @4 -- my periods are a lot worse than my multiple orgasms are good. (Generally orgasm #2 is about as good as #1, and then they get less interesting.) Cramps suck, and so does worrying about getting blood on my friend's couch or the car seat.

That said, I think I'd lean female (given a choice) just to not have to deal with that much testosterone in my body.
6
Also, FUCK cancer.
7
Agreed with EricaP on periods vs. multiple orgasms. The niftiness of multiple orgasms, although nonzero, is in no way a linear function of the number of them. Whereas it sucks a lot to have regular, multi-day moods in which you realize the world in general and your life in particular is much shittier than you thought.

Although I always thought testosterone sounded fun to be on. Not fun to be around, mind you...
8
Dan is quite the quipster this week.
9
These were all fun.

LW1, whoa. You and your husband are interested in a threesome. Fine. Then you flirt with someone and invite them to be your third BEFORE making sure your husband would be comfortable with that person as the third? Am I getting that right? You checked, first, with the third? Dan is right, take the hint. But itā€™s bigger than that. I bet the potential third has the sense not to step into that potential mess.

LW2, I disagree with Dan a little bit. If itā€™s a friend, yes you have to listen to them bitch about their relationships even when they do something stupid. You have the obligation, as a friend, to tell them when they are being stupid depending on how you think they will take it, etc. Be compassionate and be a good listener, and move the conversation along when you think it is beating a dead horse. As a friend, you absolutely do not have the obligation to worry about and/or seek advice for your friendā€™s sex life. Thatā€™s a little weird. Tell your friend you are concerned about her, then mind your own business.

LW4- NOPE. Dan is in a bubble. You do not purchase your sexually inexperienced Christian friend a vibrator before she gets married without talking to her about it first. This could range from a funny incident - even one that leads to the friend getting more in touch with her own pleasure- to a personally offensive friendship ending faux pas. What you do in this case is bring up the subject and ask the friend if sheā€™s ever used a vibrator or if sheā€™s interested in one. Do it in a way that is socially appropriate to your relationship. Then if her response is receptive, later on, buy the thing and present it to her with a ā€œI was thinking about our last conversation and I was near a sex shop and I thought Iā€™d pick this up for youā€ casual funny way or whatever. Donā€™t spring a sex toy on a friend with whom you are not having sex and for whom you have not discusssed it, etc.

4&5
Iā€™d be a guy for sure if I were given the choice before I was born which would be impossible since Iā€™d have to be me, here, alive now as a woman, to make that decision. Iā€™m by no means trans whatsoever. But yes, I think Iā€™d rather have been a guy. The periods are one thing, and if they are bad (and they arenā€™t for all women) they cause a quarter of your reproductive years to be painful and inconvenient. If orgasms persisted for a quarter of your year, then perhaps there would be some basis of comparison. My pain is intense for at least two days. The bloodflow- itā€™s getting worse with age. But thatā€™s not really a problem since itā€™s been this way basically forever and Iā€™m used to it so I wouldnā€™t trade away orgasms to get no periods- Iā€™d rather just have slightly fewer orgasms in exchange for no periods. But thatā€™s not it. Itā€™s the anxiety around pregnancy that Iā€™d love to never have to deal with again. BC doesnā€™t work for everyone, hormones, etc. Barriers are problematic for all the obvious reasons. Itā€™s expensive too. You can never just totally relax without an easy method, and there arenā€™t easy methods for everyone. So I wish a lot that I were a guy and could just fuck guys without having to worry about this crap. Multiple orgasms are really nice, but sex seems simpler for guys so I donā€™t know if the trade off is more pleasure. I mean, it appears that guys can fuck pleasurably just about anyone, and women, even the ones that orgasm fairly easily, arenā€™t going to do so in random encounter. But Iā€™m probably romanticising. My point is that my sex drive fluctuates a ton with hormonal and practical interference. And I've always thought how cool it must be to be a guy that just wants to fuck and so does. That's probably projection. None of us ever get everything.
10
Why is being a woman a choice between multiple orgasms and horrible periods?
Some women have both; some have neither. Some women have horrible periods and no orgasms at all. Some have multiple wonderful orgasms and easy-peasy periods.

Some are defined by many other things entirely.
11
@4: dstar, I'm sorry to hear about your wife's cancer.
12
Two guys, third, sisters as surrogates = No.
13
@4 dstar: I am sorry too, to read about your wife's cancer; agreeing with both you and EricaP @6 on FUCK cancer. My heartfelt prayers for a healthy recovery.
@10 nocutename: As you and most of the regulars already know, I have a sad history of less than great sex, resulting in fewer orgasms and truly horrible periods since age 12 1/2 until age 50. For me, there's nothing worse than being made to bear prolonged hemorrhaging on a monthly basis--up to 10 days before finally going away before the next horrid cycle--and having everyone else around me, including my mother (why she wouldn't admit having bad periods, too is amazing. Maybe so as not to draw attention to herself?) laughing and brushing my condition off ("It's all in your head"), trivializing my suffering. My body pain was equally excruciating. What a relief that my uterine ablation three years ago was such a success.
Anyone suffering from dysmenorrhea and dysmenorragia (sp?) has my deepest sympathy.
If Trumpzilla and its putrid cabinet full of swamp creatures ever went through what I have, there would a Planned Parenthood on every street corner and women's health issues wouldn't be such a bullshit political "issue".
14
Although it reads like a given, can I safely assume that the 31 year old wife and 47 year old husband asking separate questions are the same couple referring to each other?

@Hunter: I commented late in last week's column, re your @140 comment. No Wishful Kinking Week in Review? Hope your weekend went well while you were out of town.
15
"Dude? Trump? WTF?" I know. That's why I voted unflinchingly for Hillary. She is my 45th President of the United States.
I can hear mydriasis openly expressing how fortunate she is to be in Canada right fucking now.
16
LW2: If your friend won't break up with someone who won't give her an orgasm, then maybe her sexual pleasure ISN'T her priority? Why is it up to you what your friends' relationship priorities should be? Agree with Dan's advice -- if she's complaining to you but won't do anything to fix the problem, you're not required to listen ad nauseam, but if she's not, MYOB.

LW3: Humblebrag.

LW4: Yet another vote that "explore one's sexuality" means "do things one hasn't done before." Go to a sex shop with your friend and pick out something based on her preferences, not yours.

LW6/LW7: How sad that getting your husband off is "work." You're not required to push yourself past the point of exhaustion! Presumably he's able to get himself off quicker; when you're done, you're done, and he can hold you while he masturbates. Or he could accept that it's "normal" to not necessarily have an orgasm every single time you have sex. Perhaps he'd come quicker if he -- if both of them -- didn't insist on his coming every time.
17
DStar @4: Agree with Nocute @10. I've always seen baldness as the gendered trade-off for periods. Some men have multiple orgasms; some women don't orgasm at all. FWIW, my periods were always very light and tolerable and multiple orgasms are indeed the bomb (though there are, indeed, diminishing returns). I view my easy periods as compensation for nature's depriving me of boobs. No secondary sex characteristics for me! Testosterone I see as a double-edged sword. Yay for the sex drive; boo for the body hair, deep wrinkles and baldness. Though if you like rugged, hairy bald guys, there's no down side.
I'm sorry about your wife's cancer.

Emma @9: I don't think LW1 overstepped. She was sharing a cab with this friend; the conversation turned flirty; she and her husband had discussed having a threesome before; asking if Friend was interested, but then checking in with Husband before finalising the plan, sounds like the right approach to me. Shame he had second thoughts, but at least she got some practice asking, which can be really difficult to do.
18
BDF @17 - since Vennominon is no longer a regular contributor (and I miss him), I will channel Venn's spirit to point out that LW1 could just as easily be a "he" as a "she."

I also disagree with your premise that it's OK to ask the friend before asking the husband. This is a fairly significant choice that partners should make together, IMO. What if Hubby finds Friend not at all what he had in mind, after Friend has already agreed to join them for a romp and LW thinks it's a done deal? Better plan is to talk to Hubby about the great taxi ride home that got you thinking about Friend as a potential third, get his opinion on the subject, and THEN (assuming Hubby agrees) text Friend with an open invitation...including a dinner date for the three of you to talk it over some more, if needed. And if he ignores your text, then yeah, what Dan said.
19
As someone who only orgasms from oral and not PIV, I long had a policy of not dating/sexing guys who aren't into oral sex (this only ever eliminated one person, so I guess I was lucky) but I recently encountered this again and found a different solution that worked well for me. As Dan often advocates for marriages in which sexual desires are mismatched, opening up the relationship can be an option. In my case, this was an FWB who never attempted to go down. Because I was free to see others (who were enthusiastic about oral), I was able to enjoy the non-oral giving FWB without feeling deprived and often took the opportunity to roleplay immediate penetration scenarios.
20
I second BDF re:LW6/7, I'm definitely getting the sense that this couple might have a narrow definition of good sex (he orgasms) to their own detriment. My fiance is about to turn 45, I'm 30 with a high sex-drive, so here's some unsolicited practical advice: if the husband is masturbating solo on the regular, he needs to cut back or stop entirely if it's important to them that he gets off with the wife. If they are having relatively frequent sex, say 2-3 times a week, continue doing so, but don't make a concerted effort to get him off more than once a week. The other sexy times can be all about her or just having some fun together, but it sounds like he needs more build-up in order to get off without hurting/exhausting everyone. And no alcohol before sex, not even a beer. Focus on eachother, be present, and if you're lucky it becomes a non-issue. Wife: stop making it about you, you're doing more damage than good. Have fun and don't push yourself beyond your physical limits. Know when to tap out. Oh, and try morning sex.
21
Cap @18: You're correct, not all husbands have wives. Thanks for the correction.
However, I disagree with your "LW thinks it's a done deal." LW did not think it was a done deal; LW knew they had to ask their husband first, which they did. I'm picturing the proposition as more-or-less popping out in the heat of the flirting. Sure, in an ideal world LW would have asked Hubby first and then Friend, and sure, they'd have been a bit embarrassed to have to go back to Friend and say "actually, Hubby isn't into it, sorry to mess you about." But the world is a messy place. I reckon LW knows their husband well enough to make an educated guess on whether he'd be down to bang this friend.

FutureCat @19: If BF is too selfish to go down on Friend, I doubt he'd be up for opening the relationship. And if Friend is too lame-ass to ask for oral, I can't see her asking to see other dudes. Sounds like a good option, but probably not for these two.
22
Regarding the women with sore fingers, etc: I am surprised Dan did not recommend a fleshlight or similar masturbation toy. The women and use those on the guy without much stress on their hands.
23
I don't know any lesbians who are into astrology either.

And yes, FUCK CANCER.
24
BDF @ 17 - "I've always seen baldness as the gendered trade-off for periods. "

Then it's an unconditional win for men.

From personal experience, I can say baldness (even partial like mine) is really practical: you save time and money on haircuts (I shave whatever hair I've got left off in ten minutes every two weeks or so), you get up in the morning and you don't have to comb or style your hair (more savings on time, gel and other hair products), you never have to worry about which hairstyle you want or if you should change it, you never clog your drains... Truly, for a lazy bum like me, it's a blessing.
25
I have a feeling that, for some reason (aggressive facebook meme marketing maybe), non-Canadians are a lot more excited about Justin Trudeau than Canadians.

What gives, rest of the world? JT is just a promise-breaking handsome puppet of the Liberal Party (after they were desperately looking for one since the 90s)
26
Ricardo @24: Well, I guess the number one downside to baldness doesn't really affect you -- namely, being completely unattractive to the likes of me.
But hey, I'm on Micronor birth control and haven't had a period in years, so I think we both unconditionally win :D

Doot @25: "What gives, rest of world?" I'll tell you what gives. Look who WE have leading us, and tell me Justin Trudeau wouldn't be an improvement.
27
Justin Trudeau isn't "leading" anyone or anything. By himself, he's an insipid, shallow nothing that the Liberal Party picked to trade on nostalgia Canadians have for his father who was the best politician Canada has ever had.

Seems you think the USA is "the rest of the world". Yes, JT would probably be better than orange monster, but only insofar as he could be an effective and handsome insipid placeholder for whoever's really running the show.
28
LML @22: Wouldn't prolonged Fleshlight use still wear out one's biceps? Unless she just holds it steady while he thrusts? (I have no experience of such things.)
29
Doot @27: No, I don't think the rest of the world is the USA. JT would be better than Theresa May, by leaps and bounds, as well.
30
BDF @ 26 - I realized young enough that there's no point in wanting to attract people who just aren't attracted to you, especially since you'll always find tons of people who appreciate precisely what turns the others off. If baldness is a turn-off to you (and I'm sure plenty more people), it still is a turn-on to many, many a man (and perhaps quite a few women, I wouldn't know).

And yes, there's no doubt that you're a winner too!

Doot @ 27 - "he could be an effective and handsome insipid placeholder for whoever's really running the show"

That's still way better than an ineffective, ugly and way too colourful (as in: orange) placeholder for whoever's really running the show.

31
but, really, other than he's better than Donald Trump (pretty much anyone fits this description),

What's good about JT?

He's approved two massive trans-contintenal oil pipelines
He's broken most of his key electoral promises (no pot reform. no electoral reform)

That's just off the top of my head.

What's good about him?

Actually, nevermind. I already know. Sharable memes.
32
Doot @31: Young Mr Trudeau had me at "Because it's 2015."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLk2aSBr…
33
exactly... sharable memes. an easy platitudinous, mostly meaningless snippet that's sharable and makes you feel good.
34
Doot @ 31 - "What's good about him?"

Abolishing the visa requirement for Mexicans.
35
Actually, the previous government did that. This one will probably reverse that.
36
Doot: Please explain. The visa requirement was lifted December 1, 2016.
37
sorry! I stand corrected. The Liberal Party was regretting their decision publicly so much these months that I got it mixed up in my head who spearheaded the idea in the first place.

Canada has more Mexicans in immigration detention since January compared to all of 2016. Same with Mexicans turned back at the airport.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/mexican-…

They'll put visa restrictions back on Mexicans before the next election.
38
Doot @ 37 - "Canada has more Mexicans in immigration detention since January compared to all of 2016. Same with Mexicans turned back at the airport."

As the article you linked to says, that was to be expected once they stopped asking for a visa. Besides, it's better to expel Mexicans at the border than for them to make a refugee claim that is later rejected, since they don't spend a year or two in Canada at the government's expense. If Harper's real motive for putting that visa requirement had been to prevent false refugee claims, he could have simply enforced border controls (or made the refugee process stricter).

"They'll put visa restrictions back on Mexicans before the next election"

Perhaps, but the costs in terms of tourism are rather high - especially now that most Mexicans who can afford to travel are not going to go to the U.S. - so they might want to think about it twice before they do that. Also, it would be very bad PR internationally, whereas that's the one thing Trudeau is really good at.
39
For the LW with the sexually repressed Christian friend-- Can we be sure the friend is sexually repressed? Did she say as much? Might she just be either inexperienced or intensely private? Me, when I was younger, I wanted to jump into the sex game and was disdainful of anyone who didn't or wouldn't. As I've gotten older and more accepting of more ways to live, I'm not as judgmental of anyone who chooses to wait until marriage, or who considers asexuality, of doesn't wish to discuss masturbation even with close friends.
41
@40: Hunter, don't ever change.
42
@40 Hunter, "naked"? Should anyone who wants oral sex walk around without clothes, or just the women?
43
Hunter @40: If women want to forget about how they're not getting oral because they're distracted by freezing their butts off, they should go naked.
How strong WAS your cousins' weed??
44
Re: Wife who is tired of sex before hubby comes: My Miss N ordered a "tenga flip" for our toy box to give me a toy to play with. I am abit ambivalent. On one hand flattered that she has thought about my sex life (surprise! after all these years) but at the same time worried that she wishes to outsource her involvement. Experiments to follow and a report to be made.
Re Final letter
Mismatched libidos. This is usually a man writing about this condition and I thought that our dear Dan has banned these letters from SL.
45
Fichu@39 ... can we be sure the friend is sexually repressed? " Speaking as a kid who grew up Baptist (on the surface, some of the most sexually repressed people I've ever known) once you get those "good girls" between the sheets the gloves come off. And it generally wasn't that hard to find one who would fuck your brains out. Rebelling against "the man" I think.

Stranger@42 I vote for "just the women." It's counterproductive for men to randomly get naked and then expect sex.

Or so I've been told.

Time after time after time.
46
BiDanFan @17 "Testosterone I see as a double-edged sword. Yay for the sex drive"

That's actually why I wouldn't want it. I like being more or less at ease with myself whether or not I have a sex partner. I gather the need for sex feels like an intense hunger to many men, a hunger they can't satisfy without another human's participation. That sounds unpleasant, overall, especially for people who aren't good at getting along with other people.

Ricardo @30 "it still is a turn-on to many, many a man (and perhaps quite a few women"

*raises hand*
47
Erica @ 46 - "I gather the need for sex feels like an intense hunger to many men, a hunger they can't satisfy without another human's participation."

Yes. Masturbation just isn't enough by itself.

"That sounds unpleasant, overall"

Only when you're at work or in other situations that make it impossible to quell the urge.
48
Erica @46 Yes, there is a strong urge:.. an actual drive to share intimacy with someone else. If the drive is ignored I become unstable. I cannot think properly, certainly cannot sleep. Every day interactions become sexualized;..(That caused me problems!)
When too much time has gone by, THAT is when "taking matters into my own hands" becomes mandatory. Horny or not I need to go to work every day and that is impossible without sleep.
As a young person, I belonged to a church that categorized self-pleasure as a mortal sin. After some long sessions of celibacy where I embarrassed myself, I decided myself to take care of my needs and "let the chips fall where they may on the hereafter" (Thank you George!) I left the church at 17 and never looked back.
49
Erica @ 46 - the need for sex feels like an intense hunger...
I don't know if I would call it "intense hunger" for me, but if I have gone three or four days without a role in the hay or jerking off, it is definitely on my mind more and more. I look forward to when it's going to happen and that anticipation makes it better when it finally does. I have been thinking about what I'm going to do with Girlfriend, "planning ahead" (pun intended) and when I finally get to do it...yeah!! She doesn't anticipate it like I do, for her it's more like, "Oh, sex now? Yeah, let's go for it!"
50
Erica @46: "I gather the need for sex feels like an intense hunger to many men"

Not just men. *raises hand*
This is why I view testosterone as a good thing. In men. It means they're keen to have sex with me. Like Ricardo says, it's not something that can be satisfied on my own.
I view testosterone as a bad thing -- in men -- because it makes them more masculine in physical appearance.
So yes, the irony. The more likely a guy is to be physically attractive to me, the less likely he is to be able to match my sex drive. Ah, testosterone, you double-edged sword you.
52
I was once dating someone whose former college friends were openly dismissive of me, for no good reason other than being snooty.

So I convinced boyfriend to give them a Hitachi wand vibrator as a wedding gift, "It's for sore muscles, too -- they're athletes!"

Never had to deal with that couple again.
53
LW13 - Next time she brings up her transition, ask about how it might affect comfy bicycle seats.
54
EricaP,

for me there is an emotional toll going on when i go over a week or so without sex:

1. I self doubt my attractiveness
2. I withdraw from my wife gradually getting more engrossed in solitary stuff much to her chagrin
3. I start masturbating 2 to 3 times a day
4. My wife finally asks why Im in such a mood and I tell her my horniness is killing me.
5. Since my wife had expressed guilt over our increasingly mismatched labidos and is going through perimenopause, I rarely assert my sexual desire for her and I resent her for not being proactive or cognizant of this cycle. I solely carry the burden of sexual frustration which has its own knock on effects.

The dumbest thing is that if I wasnt so vain and prideful and just bit the bullet asking for what I want when I wanted it I likely wouldnt go more than a week without having sex and not get inside my own fucking head so much but Id always be bugged by the niggling doubt she just did it to shut me up and get back to what she really wants to be doing - things that I genuinely enjoy about her pursuing them.

Yes Im neurotic.
55
@BiDanFan, @Doot, and @Ricardo: Although many Canadians may feel differently about JT, to me, Justin Trudeau looks, acts, and sounds like Pope Francis compared to Trumpzilla and its equally putrid swamp creatures. Viva la Revolution!!

@50 BiDanFan: I can certainly commiserate about the double-edged sword of testosterone. Having too much estrogen in my system didn't help my sex life, either. Progesterone has luckily made my life infinitely better, though, over the past 4 years. Hormones: aren't they fun?

@40 & @51 Hunter: Glad you're back. That must have been some strong weed and an intense weekend party back in Ohio!
56
@44 & @48 sb53: Toys can make a difference. I'm glad to read that things are going better for you and Miss N. I'm looking forward to your upcoming report (aforementioned in @44).
57
@sb53: This is veering off-topic, but for some animated diversion, I recently found a three DVD set of classic Warner Bros. cartoons, featuring Bugs Bunny, Foghorn Leghorn (that is), and Wile E. Coyote vs. The Roadrunner, et. al. for when life gets too overwhelming. It's good to get a few laughs in. That was always the beauty of Saturday mornings for me way back in the days of three TV channels.
On an even more positive note, I may well be on my way for a one-year certification music program online while progressing on my second symphony. More later.
58
Griz's Question of the Week: Who will be our lucky Magic Number winner this week?
59
And just like that, the timer resets. The power of asking.
60
@59 -- yay!

"The power of asking."-- indeed.
61
Hunter @51: Ah, that does make sense. And yes, that strategy works for both genders. No one wants a mouthful of pubes. Well, I guess some do...

No Excuses @59: Congrats! As for your wife "just having sex to shut you up when there are other things she could be doing," I'm sure maintenance sex wouldn't take more than a half hour to an hour out of her busy schedule. If she's some sort of weirdo, er, woman with no drive of her own, she may be like Donny's girlfriend, and well up for sex even if it's not preying on her mind like it does ours.

So, can any other bio-females here corroborate my experience which mirrors the men's, or am I just weird? I suspect that I may produce more testosterone than others of my gender, or perhaps it's just less estrogen (see: light periods, tiny breasts). I too experience a "cycle" of sexual frustration that goes something like:
Day after sex: Yay, I got sex!
Day 2: If sex is an option, I'd be down, but if not, I'm not fussed.
Day 3: I could really do with some sex now, it's been three days. I'll probably masturbate.
Day 4: My body starts demanding some sex. Masturbation doesn't really help.
Days 5-8 or 9: Crawling the walls. Starting to think about having sex I wouldn't even enjoy, ie casual sex. Possibly surfing Craigslist whilst feeling like a total loser for doing so.
Days 10 onwards: Body finally accepts that it's not getting any. Raging need subsides to a dull ache. Masturbating every other day or less.

I had a FWB whom I'd see roughly every other week, which was how often he wanted sex, and tried to explain that my "cycle" meant that once every two weeks was my least optimal frequency because by the time I got the sex I'd been craving, I was largely over the frustration, and getting laid would kick it off another cycle of "Yay I got sex! Let's have some more sex! What, no sex? AARGGHHH!"
62
Nope, BDF. I think women's hormones are more complicated and it affects sex drive. I tend to range from 1) not on my mind at all to 2) sure, that would be nice but not a priority, to 3) really horny. Best I can tell, it's a part of my monthly cycle though that has been getting less predictable in recent years.

When I'm at 1 or 2, I'm still down for maintenance sex and I'm still eager for affection, so I don't usually have long periods without it at all. But honestly if I didn't have it then, it wouldn't bother me. Even when there is an urge, it's not like an overwhelming drive. It's just something I'd enjoy if I had the opportunity, but it's not a priority and if it were just about me, I'd choose other activities most of the time.

Then - bam- 3 happens and suddenly I'm really horny all the time. And yes I relate to the experience expressed above about starting to have to remind myself not to behave inappropriately in public, especially towards really beautiful men. When it' warm, usually my first indication that I'm entering a few days of intense horniness is that it's actually difficult to get into a good rhythm on my run because of the disproportionate number of extremely good looking well toned men running shirtless in the park and if it were safe and appropriate and ethical and it were a perfect world where pregnancy and STD and drama didn't exist etc, I could get down with each and every one of them. During this time in my cycle, I could have sex multiple times a day and never really be satisfied though I'm not frustrated either.

So no, there is no reset for me and no on/off switch. Either I'm horny in which case I'm still horny after sex but tired. Or else I'm not horny in which case sex is still nice with my husband though if it were entirely up to me, I'd prefer to read a book. If anything, the frequency of sex increases (not decreases) my horniness because I can move between 1 (not on my mind at all) to 2 (sure, that would be nice) with very little encouragement when the sex is easy and frequent but if I'm honest I think it's the intimacy and affection I'm craving then. It feels different from when I'm horny. It only works with my husband- not those hot guys in the park.

Also none of this has anything to do with how often I masturbate which I do a lot regardless but haven't considered if there is a pattern.

63
Emma @62: Wait... you masturbate when you're not even horny??
No wonder so many women need toys to make it work.
64
EmmaLiz@62 ā€“ ...sex is still nice with my husband though if it were entirely up to me, I'd prefer to read a book...
While I've heard that type of thing from more than one woman, it's a concept that my man-brain from Mars has trouble grasping even though I know it's true. I just imagine the situation reversed where Girlfriend says, "Hey! Let's do the horizontal bop!" and my dick doesn't immediately perk up and look around..what? What! SEX?! OK, yeah, but I'd really rather vacuum the dishwasher or something."
66
@61, the niggling doubt is just me being neurotic, I admit.
67
I sometimes wish I could have a man-sized amount of testosterone for a month or so, just to try and really get it: to feel that sense of being at the mercy of my libido. It sounds baffling to me.

I am a woman who loves sex. I like to think about sex. I write about sex. I often want more sex than the men that I date. I masturbate when I get the opportunity (which is not necessarily daily, given the circumstances of my life and the fact that I don't/can't rub a quick one out in the bathroom silently), even if I'm not feeling particularly horny (more about that word in a moment), because I know I'll like it when I get there and I know I need to take advantage of opportunities when they come along. I write and publish erotica. And still, I have no idea what that feeling is like that I've read described here by the men and BiDanFan. If I know that no sex or even masturbation is going to be possible for a prolonged while, it's as if a switch in me just turns quietly to the off position and I put all my libido on ice until such time as I can resume and I tend not to think about it too much. I may get annoyed that I'm doing without, but that's more of an intellectual annoyance ("geez! it's been 2 weeks since I've been able to masturbate. But in two days, I'll have the chance. Okay!"). As far as I can tell, I don't get cranky or frustrated when I don't have the opportunity to orgasm, and I never experience that need as a need for "release," as if pressure is building up inside and needs to be relieved or I'll explode. This is the way I've heard of others talk about it. If I can't have sex or masturbate, my sleep is not affected, nor is my mood, and I am capable of focusing on other things. I don't get antsy.

I like having sex with a partner in a totally different way than I like having solo orgasms through masturbation, but I have to say that I don't feel like an orgasm or three via masturbation just isn't "enough" for me. I'm single, and though I have a few FWBs, I see them infrequently and I feel grateful that a masturbation session is enough to satisfy the physical urge, even if I prefer partnered sex.

So I don't know if I ever feel "horny" (which is a word I just really and inexplicably detest) because I hate the word itself, or because I start wanting to have sex if I'm capable of getting it, and in its absence, I'm in hibernation mode. I don't like the idea of "looking for pussy," partly because I don't want to be reduced to my genitals, and partly because I never, ever think of "looking for dick." What I want to do is connect sexually with a person.

And I have to like him or enjoy talking to him to want to have sex with him. This doesn't mean I have to go on a zillion dates first; I've often had sex on the first date, sometimes within an hour or two of meeting someone. When I hear about someone looking for pussy, it sounds to me as though they're just looking for a human fleshlight and it bugs me. When I'm around someone I'm attracted to and if we're already in a sexual relationship or if we're working toward it, I can't keep my hands off him. I frequently initiate sex. If I read or write erotica or see an erotic image (not porn--I also hate porn), I start thinking about sex and kind of stoking my own desire level until I can masturbate. That's fun and I enjoy the build-up--and the orgasms are almost always stronger and more plentiful when there has been that build-up. So maybe I just think of the word "horny" differently than everyone else does but my actions would sound familiar to others. I don't know. At the moment, I feel like a frigid, sex-negative freak, reading these other comments.

@64: But DonnyKlicious, there's a vast, vast difference between an activity like vacuuming or washing dishes and reading a book. I enjoy reading a good book as much as I enjoy having sex (in a different way), whereas housework just needs to be done.
68
I rarely feel a strong physical urge to have sex; that may be because I generally get sex at least once a week. But at times when I've gone without for six months because of work travel, I didn't feel deprived.

I masturbate for fun or as a way to help sleep come when I'm stressed, but the strong physical drive for sex or orgasm just isn't something I experience.

This mode is where I usually am: "sure, that would be fun!"

I also initiate: "Hey sexy, wanna have sex? Or would you rather cuddle & watch a movie?" I'm offering fun suggestions for our time together, not stating a craving.

Insofar as I get strong cravings, they're more for beatings & pain than for genital contact or orgasm. I suppose that says something about me.
69
Nocute @ 67 - The way you've heard of others talk about it is pretty much on target. Women should, indeed, get a man-sized amount of testosterone for a month or so, just so that they can get it (and men should have a woman-sized amount of estrogen for a month or so, too, just so that they can get it). From what the women here have described, it really seems like a totally different experience.

70
Griz @ 55 - By that you mean that he's just as much of a hypocritical liar as the pope?
73
@63 BDF - Yeah it's more a relaxation thing. Like a glass of wine in a bubble bath with lit candles which I've never actually done, but in movies that's what women do when they need to unwind before bed. Same effect, same motivation, less complicated setup. I dunno- masturbation to me has nothing to do with sex. Being horny to me means I want to have sex. I never thought about it before really but surely this can't be that uncommon? We learn a lot on this site! I masturbated as a child though, I remember doing it really young. Then I remember getting older and hearing people say that masturbation was wrong or making fun of other kids for doing it, and I joined in because I had no idea what they were talking about but I realized it was an uncool thing to do. It wasn't until I was even older that I understood what that meant, and it's something I'd been doing my entire life, even as a small child. I can't remember a time when I didn't. And I certainly wasn't horny as a child and had zero conception of sex or sexuality at least as it relates to being horny or interested in people etc. So sex and masturbation have never been linked in my head.

@64 Donny- Wait a minute. I didn't say I enjoyed CHORES more than sex. I said that when I'm not particularly horny, I find sex with my husband to be enjoyable. But if it were entirely about me, in that moment I'd prefer a different enjoyable activity like reading (which I like and do a lot) or any various hobbies of which I have many. It's not just about me though of course, and sex is perfectly pleasant even when I'm not horny. But as to your larger point about getting hard whenever your partner initiates, yes, I think this is one of the ways that men and women are (typically, based on my experience) different.

@ No Cute Thanks, I can totally relate to a lot of that though I don't feel the need to really know a person all the time (though intimacy is its own thing and very nice). I certainly have moments where it's the dick I'm craving so I can understand people who say things like that. I can also understand being uncomfortable with the objectivity- what woman can't? And yes as much as I'd like to just bone random people when I'm really horny, in real life you need some chemistry and trust or else it's really awful for the woman. At least in my experience.

@68 Erika Ditto exactly the feeling (except without the beatings) that I have most of the time. You describe it perfectly. But the week before my period I'm usually raging horny. I wonder how this is going to change as I get older. I think I'll miss it if it goes away altogether.

@Hunter How do I find the feminist legislators and how do I enforce their laws? B/C I can think of a lot of shit that I think should stand trial in feminist court.
74
Ricardo is this week's lucky lucky winner @69.
75
Lava @ 74 - And I hadn't even noticed! I'll celebrate by enjoying that position later tonight (I hope).
76
@EmmaLiz: I like intimacy, but that's not what I was talking about. I'm perfectly capable of having great sex with a virtual stranger. And I like to be objectified (only by someone who knows me as a subject and agent first, however).
But I have to like the person to want to have sex with him. His physical attractiveness isn't enough if I get a sense of an unpleasant personality. I have to be able to make conversation with him. I often get the feeling that men will be quite interested in having sex with a woman despite not having anything at all to say to her or even if they don't find her in the slightest likable as a person; after all, she has a vagina, right? That's what I mean; that's the way I interpret the phrase "looking for some pussy," and the like. I might look for some dick, but I have to think that the man it's attached to is not someone I'd dislike if I knew better.
77
@76 Ah, thanks for spelling it out for me, and yes now that I see what you mean, I agree with you almost entirely. I don't necessarily need the conversation so long as the person isn't saying something offensive which would be a turnoff.
78
I feel like I relate to men in some ways and women in others.

I can reach a state of wanting sex so bad, I literally scream and cry in the shower. No amount of masturbation will make that go away. I can reach a point of feeling totally mentally unbalanced, agitated and depressed from a lack of sex. At the same time, even if there are 10 guys I know would be open to fucking me, if I'm not super into them, I have no desire to contact them for this purpose. Having sex with them will not satisfy this urge. It MUST be someone who I am super attracted to for whatever reason. My frustration is linked to not having someone I highly desire fulfill that need that can only be fulfilled by such a person.

At the same time, being with the same person for a while, no matter how much I'm attracted to them, can ultimately sap that drive and lead me to either want to have sex less often or to want to find a brand new person who turns me on to that degree.

I've also had the sexual hibernation thing happen. I'll feel intense desire that makes me feel crazy almost every day for a few months and then get used to not getting laid and coast on that for a while until for some reason (hormones?) my desire goes nuts again.

I would say I masturbate *more* when my sex life is very active because my mind is more focused on sex. It's not a release related to lack of sex as much as it's a release from the constant fantasizing about the person or people I'm sexually involved with who are not there at that specific moment. It's sentimental and anticipatory.

79
Nocute @ 76 - I don't know if it's typical of men, but even though I find it easy to have sex once with someone who may potentially be totally unlikeable as a person, if I do find out that he is an asshole, it makes it extremely difficult for me to have sex with him again*. Still, the first time, the urge for sex is so generally so strong that I don't even consider that possibility.

*To be clear: I can't remember one instance where I had sex with someone I already knew was an asshole
80
"is generally so strong", not "so generally so strong". Sorry!
81
@59 No Excuses and @60 EricaP: I was hoping Ricardo or one of you would win the Magic Number spot this week. That's why I asked. I think it's fun to see who gets the lucky number.
@69 Ricardo: Congratulations on hitting the Magic Number this week! Yaaay! And enjoy the fruits of your victory tonight.
and @70 Ricardo [re my comment @55]: Wait---what?...No, I like Pope Francis and respect him as much as I do former President Barack Obama, the Clintons, Gores, Jimmy Carter, FDR, JFK, et. al About Pope Francis I see no hypocrisy. I may have made an error in the comparison. I admit I don't know a lot about Justin Trudeau, but as for blatant hypocrisy Trumpzilla and its apologists offer Mack truck sized shitloads and need to be removed from the White House in an industrial size garbage bag.
82
@81, continued, re @59, & @60: For me, seeing who hits 69 each week on Savage Love is like a fun call-in radio promo contest (i.e.: 10th caller on KZOK) because of that number's sexually related significance.
83
@82: Rats! I don't think my explanation came out quite right. No sexual relation to radio station KZOK, but that there is a rapid time limit, and the winner is selected randomly. But I thinkk you all knew what I meant.
84
The typos are what Griz gets for staying up late watching movies. At least I don't have a hangover.
85
@45 Donny, I don't know, the idea of people (whatever gender) going about naked in an attempt to hint they'd like some attention has a humorous side plain old grooming doesn't match.

@51 Hunter, @61 BDF, the "mouthful of hair" thing confuses me. I've been down on full bushes (and many guys still don't trim much themselves) and I've never got hair in my teeth. It just doesn't seem to grow that close to the crucial parts.

Then again, I've apparently got a male-ish libido on similar lines to BDF (46) and futurecatlady (78) but usually find men don't keep up, so apparently my experience is generally atypical.
86
StrangerMyself @85 I get hair in my mouth all the time giving oral, but it's my own damn hair from my head.
87
@86 EricaP Hah! OK, in that sense, I've got hair in my mouth giving oral, too, but for this I figured the lord gave me hair accessories and short cuts.

@1 Fichu, the trouble with JT is if you're into minds, his Dad's was so much sharper.
89
Griz @ 81 - While Pope F. publicly declares that there should be no clemency for sexually abusive priests, he reduced the sentences of priests who were convicted of having sex with minors, among which Mauro Inzoli.

He was also accused this week of having (while archbishop of Buenos Aires) defended a priest, Julio Grassi, who had been found guilty of sexual abuse, and having pressured the judge, Carlos Mahiques, so that he would free Grassi. It's pretty well documented. He had a counter-investigation done that essentially blamed the victims, and used that 2600 page report to lobby the judge.

One of the victims, "Gabriel", a boy who was raped at age 15, now lives in hiding because people have broken into his home to steal documents that would have been useful in the trial, and he's received numerous threats.

In other words: Frank's not a good person. Sorry to burst your bubble.
90
@89 Ricardo: yes he has protected Cardinal Pell, one of our Catholic bosses who got a job with the Vatican just about the same time our royal commission into child abuse started a few years ago. Then when a few men accused Pell of not only covering up abuse but also being one of the abusers, nothing. Pell still supported by the Vatican.
91
Lava @ 90 - A common tactic. As soon as they're in hot water, they get a job at the Vatican, a sovereign country from which it is then impossible to extradite them.
92
@89 (& @91) Ricardo, and @90 LavaGirl: *sigh* Well, rats! No, Pope Francis is not a good person. And after his lauded, highly publicized stands on universal healthcare for everybody, climate change and global warming, I thought--FINALLY---a pope I could really like. What IS it about religious celibates having the power to advise others to or not to have sex---and then abuse those under their supervision? And now, Pope Francis is in the Vatican where he's untouchable for any crimes committed. Sounds very much like the RepubliKKKans currently stinking up the White House, SCOTUS, House of RepubliKKKans, and Senate.
I am sorry for my poor comparison. I'm sure Justin Trudeau has his faults, too (no one leader is absolutely perfect), but maybe Mother Theresa of Calcutta would have made for a better, more virtuous comparison. Infinitely better than Trumpzilla. My apologies, too, for not being better up to date on Pope Francis or Justin Trudeau.
93
@92 One more correction: plenty of RepuliKKKans stinking up do-nothing Congress, too.
94
@85 & 87 Stranger Myself, & @86 EricaP, [re Hunter @51 & @BDF @61]: Hair in one's mouth. Just an occupational hazard of GGG sex, right? But for me, that was a double-edged sword. A thick mound between my ex's legs was supposed to be no problem, but I'd be damned if he got any of my pubic hair in his mouth, even after a bath or shower.
and Hunter, I never answered your question if I have ever 69ed, so I will now: Yes, I have. I did everything I could to be GGG--within reason when I was sexually active.
95
NoCute @67: Agreed, reading a book is enjoyable. Housework is not. They are not comparable substitutes for sex.

I've now come to the conclusion that periods, baldness, and multiple orgasms are all irrelevant. Ability to switch off one's libido, now that makes a person lucky.

No matter how horny I get, I never go "looking for dick/pussy." If I were "looking for dick,"[1] I could just use a dildo, right? It's not a dick that I want, it's a warm attractive body. With a dick or pussy attached.

During these horny periods it's like I have on one shoulder a little devil saying "Sex! I want sex! I don't care who it's with!" and on the other shoulder is an angel saying "But I have STANDARDS!" Part of this is ego, part of it is the knowledge that getting naked with a body I find repulsive will not be satisfying in any way, and part of it is, yes, internalised slut shaming. As this discussion has shown, "women don't behave this way." Women don't get horny; women don't seek out sex for its own sake. This discussion has shown me that those messages, sadly, aren't wrong; that there is something wrong with me. Great.

Ricardo @69: Congrats! And I agree, men should have to experience at least one period. The bleeding, the cramps, the mood swings. I highly endorse your plan, and hope you were able to celebrate your 69 in the appropriate way.

Emma @73: "the week before my period I'm usually raging horny" Yes, this. My body is saying "Last chance! Do it now!"

[1] Yes, when I get horny I exclusively go "looking for dick," rather than pussy, because I know the odds of successfully finding a man to hook up with that same night (delayed gratification is no consolation to the raging libido) are astronomically higher than finding a woman who's up for immediate sex.
And then when I do end up going home with someone, who's probably going to ghost me afterwards for the crime of being as horny as they were, I feel like a chump for letting the little devil win. @76, I have been so horny that I went home with someone without actually caring what their personality was like. (Obvious assholishness, no; but knowing very little about them and being okay with keeping it that way until after the sex, fine.) My little angel was severely disappointed in me for that, too.

Most of the bad decisions I've ever made have been my libido's fault.
96
There's nothing wrong with you Fan @95, or are you being facetious?
It's good your desire is still so strong, it generates heat in your body and it contributes to you staying healthy.
How do you proceed to deal with the desire? You're a grown woman, do what you want to do safely.
97
. I know my desire in marriage got a little dulled. Being a single woman, it is much more intense.
Women are different Fan, and marriage and kids can take the sparklers off, as we so often read about in the letters.
You are forging a different path and your desire mode is staying along for the ride. Why not? "This looks like fun. Where is this chick gonna take me to(o) next."
98
Married people who play together, enjoy kink together, this scenario must help keep a woman's desire on the boil.
100
Lava @96: I suppose, rereading LW3, I may be atypical but at least I'm not alone.
102
@95 BiDanFan: "Most of the bad decisions I've ever made have been my own libido's fault." Bingo--me too. Been there and can well relate.
103
@94: Further evidence of my once having an abusive ex: he INSISTED on my shaving my pubic hair bald while he remained hairy. Finally upon his last attempt to strangle me 16 years ago, I'd had enough and dumped the abusive asshole already (DTAAA). Bi sums up beautifully [@95] on why I stayed with him nine unhappily married years too long.
104
Re: dick/dildo comment, slightly off topic BDF, but this is something I've heard a lot of bi and trans people say lately- that we can't be attracted to genitalia, we must be attracted to the person it is attached to or else a device that is shaped like genitalia would be the same, etc, and some variation of that idea. I wonder if perhaps this is a misunderstanding that comes from people who have a wider range in their sexuality.

Absolutely a dildo would not satisfy if I'm craving dick for the simple fact that a dildo is not a dick. And obviously as well, a disembodied dick that floated about in space would not satisfy if I'm craving dick because a disembodied dick floating about in space does not exist and my desires are primal and urgent, not fantastical. It simply is true that sexuality for many people is focused on genitalia, and while that sort of objectification and craving is not all there is to sexuality, it is a big part of it for a lot of people. Usually, of course, when I'm craving dick, I want to fuck and you can't fuck a dick by itself- I want the sweat and smells and pressure and full body experience. But I absolutely want the dick and it's a necessary part. And not just for penetration but for its own responsiveness. I want it in my face and on my body etc. This is a very common experience, or else glory holes would not be a thing and no one would get off on giving head for any reason other than altruistically enjoying the other person's pleasure, but obviously it's more than that. Of course in reality, dicks are attached to men, and men (like anyone else) are sometimes assholes or selfish in bed or dangerous or disappointing or violent. And so, like NoCuteName, in reality I require the dick to be attached to a person that I'm pretty sure is not going to be a complete asshole, but that has far more to do with my own practical concerns tempering my desire for dick than it does with a desire for a body the dick is attached to , if you see what I mean. Saying I'm attracted to the person and not craving the dick attached to that person is a massive over-simplification. I love my husband more than any person on this planet many times over, and if he were to suddenly not have a dick anymore, I would not stop loving him. But certainly our sex life would take a massive blow and if it were able to continue at all, it would only be because I already love him and want to find a compromise in which we can continue to be happy. And yes, that would require that I find other dick (that happens to be attached to hopefully-not-asshole-men), not dildos and not strap ons, but dick.
105
@ #20 lvg - solid advice. My sweetie is in his mid 40's, and although we try for orgasms for both of us each time we get busy, he probably gets there 5 out of 6 times, compared to my 9/10. More often than not, he will have gone through a couple cycles of getting erect, and I (or at least my jaw) will be ready to quit through soreness/exhaustion, and on the verge of giving up, when he finally comes. Some reasons I don't quit sooner: I have a bit of an oral fixation and I like giving head; he insists on me coming first; he rarely, if ever, gives up.

On the libido question - I have a reasonable libido for someone in her early 50's. I'd be happy with sex two or three times a week if I could get it, but am limited to weekends only, and so usually get full-on sex once a week. I usually masturbate a couple of times a week to relieve tension and feel good, or sometimes to get to sleep faster. I experience surges of libido at what seem like random times, sometimes strong enough to make me wish I wasn't in public.

Conversely, I have also experienced very low-libido periods of couple weeks to a month at a time, especially during periods of high stress or significant depression, when I have been completely uninterested in any kind of sexual activity.
106
Emma @104: Like LW2's friend, my surest route to an orgasm is via oral sex. When sex takes the typical hetero route of 1. making out -> 2. groping -> 3. oral -> 4. PIV, the point at which I come is generally Step 3. Sometimes Step 2, and sometimes again at Step 4, but Step 3 is the crucial one. Since Step 3 (and Step 2) do not require a dick, or even anything approximating a dick, I can happily have dick-free sex and feel satisfied. While I, too, "want the sweat and smells and pressure and full body experience," I can get all that with a person who has a pussy.
If there's a dick there, I will generally want to fuck it. Among other fun things one can do with genitals of various descriptions. Because they're all fun, even if they are not directly orgasm-inducing.
However, some dicks are a turn-off even when I like the rest of the person.

Still @105: External factors like stress and overwork can affect my libido as well. I've heard it's typical of men to want sex when they're stressed and women to be put off sex when stressed -- another way in which I'm a typical bloke -- but my exception is when it's my partner who's the source of the stress. Then I just want them, and anyone else, to stay away from me.
108
Hunter @101: As a non-monogamous person, I disagree that LW15's situation justifies seeking a DADT hall pass. She says she'd like a bit more sex, not that she's going crazy with frustration. Masturbating seems to be sufficient to serve her sexual needs; she's only perplexed by the gender role reversal in her relationship. All she needs is to understand that not every male-female pairing fits the stereotype of the man being hornier, and that masturbating is OK for partnered women. It's almost certainly better for this relationship, which she seems happy with otherwise, than asking for a pass to go cheat.
111
Hunter @109: What's there to think about? He's got a lower sex drive than she does. This happens all the time with couples. It's okay when it's the woman, it's okay when it's the man. She's not being "deferential," she's respecting that he's different, and finding a way to work round it. That's how sex drive variances work. (In other words: It's differential, not deferential.)

You're creating problems that aren't there. Again.

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