2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
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Don't give him grief about it, do give him a little sympathy when he gets home. These people tried to break you up, and treat other people like crap. You're not obliged to spend time with them.
As a fan of morning sex myself, I don't see why Dan caters 100% to the husband's preference. Maybe as a night owl he can stay up till 3am on occasion and fuck on his way to bed, when she's getting up? Maybe on the weekends he can text her from bed when he wakes, to let her know to come back and play?
If sex is that bad, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it. Either in the situations or the people involved. Or perhaps not at all.
SHUTOUT – Like it or not, this is the family YOU CHOSE (via your choice of a husband). They'll be part of the picture probably forever, so YOU AND YOUR HUSBAND should do your best to solve this problem sooner, rather than later if possible. Agree with Dan's advice except it should be the husband who delivers the "keep things civil, hate-free, and non-biphobic or we will get up and leave" warning to his own damn family. And then, as Dan says, FOLLOW THROUGH and leave if they can't stop dragging their knuckles on the ground for the short time you are there. Hopefully they'll get the message.
This is especially true if/when they have kids. Kids love grandparents (usually) and she doesn't get to decide if her kids get to have a relationship with their grandparents. She can certainly correct any obnoxious things her odious in-laws try to inculcate in her kids though.
What is it that people here often say about partners who try to isolate you from your friends and family? I'm pretty sure most agree that it's not a good thing.
Marriage isn't "about family". It's about what the people in the marriage agree it's about. It can be about family--it can be about breaking away from the bad examples your family of origin were, and making a new start.
Where did you get the impression I advised her to isolate him from his family?
@1 clashfan: I like your suggestion for SHUTOUT's husband to take his mother out separately on Mother's Day and to go for pie on Thanksgiving and Christmas without his wife's having to participate and suffer needlessly. Amen to starting one's own family traditions!
I don't make any effort to communicate with them, my communication with my sibling is limited, and I send presents to their kids and maybe talk on the phone twice a year.
If your inlaws are horrible people who go out of their way to make your life miserable, they haven't earned respect or any of your time. Your husband can see them on his own, in limited doses, and you can point to all the very valid reasons that you're not going to waste another moment of your life on people who deliberately tried to break you up.
Otherwise, if you get home before she does, try getting some of those chores done for her. Knock that list down to size, and see what happens. Also, have you tried asking your wife what she thinks of this situation?
I did everything I could to openly accept my ex's family as they were, but it was impossible. Our differences proved to be irreconcilable. Despite my ex's and his family's parts in aggressively pushing for us to have children, that was the only thing during my disastrous marriage that I did right--stand my ground, and insist on remaining childless. My divorce was still ugly, but it would have been a nightmare if children had ever been added to so toxic a mix.
Even if the in-laws can get their behavior under control and practice good manners now, SHUTOUT and his/her hubby having kids may ratchet up the tension even more. As a parent, sometimes you feel that you can put up with stuff you'd eschew as a single person for your kids' sake. Other times, you decide you don't want to expose your kids to toxicity.
I would recommend, rather than prescribing a certain level of contact or number of visits, that SHUTOUT and hubby say "This year we would like to spend time with you on these occasions: X, Y, and Z. We would appreciate this kind of behavior on your part: A, B, and C. In return, we will do P, D, and Q. If this year goes well, we might have more visits next year. If not, we may have fewer." They can always cancel visits, or add more, depending on what happens. But it could relieve some of the stress to be able to think "OK, one down, we survived this one OK, two to go."
I too was puzzled by the idea of someone being both a morning person and having insomnia. Surely insomnia means one can't get to sleep at night? So she's lying awake at night and then getting up early in the morning? Dude, did you marry a vampire? I agree that some compromise is necessary. For instance, Wife could wait until Husband wakes up naturally, perhaps make him coffee or breakfast in bed, and wait for his wakefulness and libido to catch up with hers. Or she could realise that if sex is important enough to her to try to wake someone up, it's important enough to put aside her chores and projects for while her husband is awake, as Dan says. Surely there must be times when they are both awake; they should both make the effort to have sex then, instead of each of them only seeking sex when they are horniest, if their natural rhythms are so out of whack.
Holmes @4: Sadly, they weren't joking.
Still Thinking @16: It occurred to me, too, that SHUTOUT might be male -- but then the bigger issue wouldn't be his bisexuality, but the husband's homosexuality. Trust me, bigots like those would not be primarily concerned that a bi guy would leave their nice gay son to find some woman to go start a family with. That's a different kind of bigotry. I agree with Donny and Clashfan: SHUTOUT married this guy, not his family. They're making zero effort and she's not required to make any more effort than they are.
a) Waking someone for sex isn't inherently "horrible." I don't mind; ManxsomeFoe's partner doesn't mind; and INSOMNIA doesn't seem to mind -- it's just not effective for them.
b) Which is why I suggested alternatives that were still in the AM hours -- as you did too. I was confused that Dan seemed to think she should do all the compromising, when possibly her afternoon chores & errands involve other humans, rather than just sweeping the kitchen. INSOMNIA didn't say explicitly that her tasks could all be moved to 3am, so it seemed an odd thing to assume.
I think Dan suggested that Mrs INSOMNIA compromise because INSOMNIA is the one who's normal here, and Mrs INSOMNIA's schedule is unreasonable.
@18 (re your thread with EricaP @3 on INSOMNIA): I agree. Mrs. INSOMNIA's compromising by being awakened at 3 am for sex sounds unreasonable to me, too--that's nuts! Mr. and Mrs. INSOMNIA should find a time for sex when they're both awake and want it. I like your enticing breakfast in bed idea.
I strongly agree with Donny @5 that it is your husband, not you, who needs to tell them to cool it when anyone starts spewing racist or homophobic garbage. Not only will they accept the message better coming from their own kid, it is his marital duty to stand up for you, your relationship, and your shared values, if and when anyone in his birth family starts putting you down. And it will make you feel a little bit better about the visits if you know that he will always have your back, should the conversation take an uncomfortable turn.
That said, 3am is a bit hard for a lot of people's natural rhythms. 5am seems much more reasonable. But if he's been up quite late, that might feel like the middle of the night to him. In my experience it's easier to turn a night owl into a morning person than vice-versa; maybe he could work on slowly adjusting his schedule closer to hers, by getting up slightly earlier each day? At first he won't be tired any earlier, but after a while he will as his body asks for more sleep.
Failing that, it sounds like weekend sex for these two.
I'd like to say Bother and Sibling's married name is the Bickersons, but sadly that's not the case.
Most of our suggestions for compromises are incompatible with raising young children, so I'm going to reiterate that I think they'd be better off not having kids together unless their bodies get more in sync and/or their joint problem-solving skills improve.
I like the idea from ciods @27 that INSOMNIA start training his way toward a 9-4 or 10-5 sleep schedule, which is what most farming families in developed countries and virtually everyone in the rest of the world live on by necessity, and is most likely the approximate schedule that his wife keeps. Everything we currently know about human biorhythms indicates that more awake time during daylight hours is healthier and leads to longer lifetimes than burning the midnight oil, and his wife might actually sleep better (i.e., longer) if their sleep schedules were more synchronized...which would give INSOMNIA a better shot at a willing (and fully awake) partner for the evening sex games he craves.
These different hours bull is masking them not really enjoying each other sexually.
This letter is similar to my experience. We married young and I was from a Long-term FDR Democratic family. Her family is right-wingnut Trumpians, but also right -wing Lutheran. (like the RCC there are strains of lutheranisms) In the face of decades of negativity and judgey behavior I simply show up at family functions and soak up their goofy stories to be replayed when I am with my family for laughs. I try to not take it personally, I simply remind myself that they love their daughter as do I;...we have that one thing in common. I learned to bring cigars to leave their house to smoke when it gets too bad. I do not normally smoke but it is delightful to have this reason to excuse myself. Like Bill Clinton, I do NOT inhale ;-)
But yeah, sounds sketchy how difficult sleep vs sex is for INSOMNIAC...Newlyweds, but they may have dated for years before tying the knot, so he's bored of her or she is.
@34: Thanks again, Bi.
@29 slinky: Bothers-in-law. They're something else, aren't they? Mine are The Duke of Squander and the Queen of Denial.
@40: If she's being awakened from a deep sleep, whether she truly wants it or is just going through the motions to appease her spouse, it's a damn inconvenience.
@40: I speak from previously unhappily married experience. Nuff said.
Intimacy teaches if a nighttime tap will wake up a snarling or cheerful partner.
In this case it's not working because he doesn't really wake up, not because he's grouchy. With consent he could try waking her when he comes to bed and seeing how that goes. Because of her insomnia, though, I'm not hopeful.
Hunter @40: It's not a sin to want cock at 3am. It's not a sin to want to throttle somebody. It's a sin to do it. She's more than welcome to fantasize about cock at 3am, or to use a dildo at 3am. If she's a decent human being, she'll let her husband sleep. Because her husband does not want pussy at 3am.
[Griz @41: Clarification: INSOMNIA is the male letter-writer, his wife is the 3am sex pest.]
EricaP @43: It doesn't matter whether you're happy to be woken for sex. It doesn't matter if 90% of the people in the world are happy to be woken for sex (which these comments indicate is far from the case). INSOMNIA does not want to be woken for sex. Therefore Mrs INSOMNIA shouldn't do it.
If you want to be a Catholic, then you are obliged to recognize that same-sex sexual activity is sinful, that monogamy is required, etc., etc. But, the mere fact of being gay or lesbian or bisexual isn't in itself sinful, only the acts are. My guess is that you're not all that interested in being a Catholic, so the Catechism doesn't apply to you.
It does apply to your in-laws, however. So the next time they treat you disrespectfully, you might helpfully offer them some guidance for something they might want to discuss in confession.
@46 BiDanFan: Ooops! Thanks for the clarification, and sorry for the misinterpretation Hunter [@40] and INSOMNIA.
@51 Hunter: Bi, myself, and several other people have already suggested that better communication for sex needs to be negotiated between Mr. and Mrs INSOMNIA.
@INSOMNIA: Good luck negotiating sexually with your wife, and hope you can both get some sleep.
Dan the Man and everybody, forgive me---I'm still celebrating Dan's spot-on victory re NAWT from last week: "you already made the dog mistake--get out before you make the child mistake." I might still be a few days behind in the current thread, mentally.
NO. The "assumption" is NOT that a co-habitant is REQUIRED to provide sex whenever their partner wants it, whether they are ill, asleep, stressed, or otherwise not in the mood. CONSENT is required even with a wedding ring.
When someone is asleep, THAT IS AN UNSPOKEN "CLOSED" TIME.
"Forlorn"? Seeking clarification is "forlorn"? I don't understand how you've read "forlornness" into my question. I asked because I suffer from insomnia, meaning that it takes me at least an hour to fall asleep at night after going to bed, and is consequently difficult for me to get up early in the mornings, as I haven't had as much sleep by then as I would like.
I do admit bias in that I do not like being woken up for sex, and I do not find sex enjoyable when I am not fully awake. But guess what? That's not clouding my advice; the LW has stated the very same dislike. I am not endorsing that Mrs INSOMNIA respect my wishes, I'm endorsing that she respect her husband's wishes.
All y'all who like sleepy sex are more than welcome to enjoy. SO LONG AS YOUR PARTNERS DO TOO.
And both people don't need to like being woken for sex. God knows that me being happy to wake for a nursing didn't create a symmetrical need for me to wake my infant! So as long as A is happy to be woken for sex, their partner B can go ahead and act on that, even if B has communicated that B doesn't want to be woken for sex.
I think you missed my post where I suggested that INSOMNIA ask Mrs. INSOMNIA if it's okay if he wakes her when he comes to bed, so they can find out if that leads to good sex. But as I said @43, I'm not hopeful for that as a solution because she's the one with insomnia and probably won't find it easy to fall back to sleep.
Sportlandia @56: The behaviour you described is abusive. Abusers are the wrong people. I'm glad she's now an ex, but you seem to accept that your perfectly reasonable choice to say no to sex is "ammo in the argument gun" as a given worries me. No one, regardless of gender, should be "quarterheartedly fucking" someone as a preferable alternative to reprisals.
BTW, I agree with those who say this asshole brought the liquor in the first place as leverage. You don't have to accept that gambit from him. Either provide your own liquor as host, or make it clear that there are no special privileges when it comes to maintaining the comfort level of all present. Act like a skeevy bastard even once, and you're gone, and your investment in liquor is forfeit. (But seriously, just provide your own liquor. A shit like that is likely to have spiked his supply.)
Hosts should have a taser, and not be afraid to use it if the asshole doesn't leave immediately and contritely. Fuckwad can enjoy explaining to the police the reason why he got tased was because he put his fingers in the ass of someone who already told him no penetration, so he can have a rape charge added to his evening.
But the rest of the rules I mentioned above should work even for people that you know well.
Congrats in advance to whomever hits the lucky magic number this week!
Not even reaching a hunsky?
@65 BiDanFan: This was a rerun?