RACK is justifyably worried about criminal charges, but he could also face tort liability if his partner were injured or died. So even if he avoids prison, he might still end up in deep legal problems. And any legal problem gets expensive very quickly. So while Dan is right, and I cannot name anyone who has died from breath play, when women have asked me to engage in this, I've been very leery about taking choking beyond light pressure. That said, I know a number of women whose partners go further than that.
GONE, I think fantasizing about other partners during sex is wholly normal, and a release valve from actually cheating on a partner. But I have found that when fantasizing becomes more routine, and staying in the moment during sex required conscious thought, it suggests a lack of attraction to my current partner and a sign that I should end the relationship. You never said whether you are actually attracted to your partner, if not, your wandering mind isn't the problem. On the other hand, if this is primarily happening when you're on the receiving end of oral sex, perhaps your problem is laying back and receiving pleasure. Maybe instead of receiving blow jobs you would rather be more interactive and engage in 69 instead.
ACRONYM, Just because Dan suggested that CLIF's wife may have been faking orgasms all along doesn't mean Dan was saying YOUR wife was faking them all along, so you don't have to take it so personally.
@1 SublimeAfterglow: Well said to both RACK and GONE. Agreed with Dan.
Excellent, Dan, and @2 biggie, on reminding ACRONYM and his wife to enjoy each other as they are NOW, rather than bitch about what once was THEN. Imagine if more heterosexual couples did just that. Would there be a lot less breakups?
I once took home an incredibly HOT guy I didn't know very well and he choked me erotically without asking. At the time I was like, "WOW, that was intense! Hot!" and all was well, and it definitely didn't last long, but in the intervening years I've learned that he REALLY should have asked about that.
Once upon a time, GONE used to come with his focus on his girlfriend alone, and without fantasizing about other hot babes. Once upon a time, ACRONYM's wife, like CLIF's, could come through PIV. Our bodies and our relationships go through changes, and those easy, intimate-in-that-unique-way sexual experiences recede, and sometimes evaporate altogether. I think it is understandable to mourn, but important not to pine.
Also, P.S. Yes, if your dumb ass kills your partner cause you went too far with the weird sex shit, you go to jail. That includes choking, sneaking the both of you into the tiger cage for a dangerous thrill while you fuck, and boring them to death with your dirty talk. Safety first, people!
Mumbling coffee orders! Hilarious :)
NAMOS: Perhaps your ex just really liked your unusual name. At least you know that she doesn't hate you, or she wouldn't have chosen a name that suggests memories of you, right? Take it as a compliment -- on your parents' taste in baby names.
RACK should look into the documentation used by martial arts studios for their practitioners. I've been attending Brazilian jujitsu classes for nearly three years, and although I've never been choked unconscious or been in a class where anyone was, it's the sort of thing that isn't that unusual. Getting choked out happens, just like other incidents. I've broken my big toenail on one foot, hyperextended my big toe on the other, hyperextended a thumb, had rotator cuff issues, got two black eyes (one at two different points in time), a separated rib (twice - two different ribs), and a whole lot of other injuries too minor to mention. It's pretty normal. You have to sign a lengthy waiver at the start of participation acknowledging that you're aware martial arts are dangerous (up to and including deadly) and that you participate at your own risk.
I figure it's a little different when there's a dead body though rather than simply someone in the hospital. (A guy in our studio was in the hospital for a week last month after a mixed martial arts fight where he got kicked in the chest/ribs to the point that his lung collapsed after the match. No one got sued. The promoters of the event carried insurance for precisely this outcome.) There's precedent outside the bedroom for people agreeing to engage in known, dangerous activities. RACK should check that out.
Also, anyone into breath play (as a receiver or giver) really should try a month or two of jujitsu, or at least some private lessons, with a focus on chokes. The body responds differently to blood or air chokes, and there is a lot of information about pressure points and technique that would be helpful. The classic 'rape choke' grip, for example, is actually a lousy way to choke someone, but a good way to leave bruises all over them. So take some lessons, up your game, and hey, learn some self defense while you're at it.
NAMES, I think that in relationships our partners introduce us to all sorts of new things which we incorporate into our lives. Let's say someone introduces their partner to a cuisine, say Korean food, which they hadn't eaten before. Would you think it was noteworthy that after the relationship ended they continued to eat Korean food? Probably not. In your case, your girlfriend was introduced to your unusual name, which sounded really nice to her ear, and while she lost interest in you, your name (completely divorced from you the person) still appealed to her. This suggests as @9/BiFanDan said, your ex wasn't left with any negative feelings about you. On the other hand, I sense that you think this might have deeper significance, but the likelihood that she secretly regrets the end of your relationship and consciously (or subconsciously) revealed this through her child's name is remote enough that you shouldn't use this as incentive to reach out to your ex.
Hey GONE, I have some great advice for you! Instead of imagining a different person when you're with your GF, see if you can imagine something different about the sex you're having with her--imagine you're strangers, or you're doing it in a back room while bar patrons mill around outside, or that her husband is paying you to watch, or that you're both spies and she's probably sucking you off as a way to discover your secrets. You might find a mental adjustment that allows you to be more turned on by what you're doing. You might even find one you can share with your GF, so you can have a better sexual experience and remain mentally present.
Gamebird @11, there's a big difference between accidentally killing someone at a martial arts event versus accidentally killing someone in private during sex games. You are much more likely to face criminal charges when there are no witnesses to corroborate your story.
A fairly safe way to do breath control would be to order the bottom to hold their breath, with painful consequences for breathing. People can make themselves pass out, but at that point they start breathing again. The top needs to keep the bottom from hitting their head if they pass out, that's probably the biggest danger.
Re: NAMES - I agree with most everyone here that most probably, she liked your unusual name and naming her son with it was likely more about the name than about you. I also agree with @13 that Offing was probably a typo or bad autocorrect for Effing.
GONE – Ever considered finding a girlfriend who can keep your attention? Either you're seriously ADHD or she's boring the shit out of you (I give it a 50/50 chance of being your fault as much as hers). This should be a letter from a long-time married couple, not a two-year relationship where BF/GF are in their early 30s.
NAMES – Obsess much? Time to get a life, muchacho. Who gives a shit what she named her kid? Be glad it wasn't NAMES Junior.
In looking over GONE's issue again, it does seem that he connects his mind wandering to when he is receiving oral sex, and not during PIV sex. I don't think GONE is alone in finding their mind wandering when receiving oral sex; I think intense pleasure can get your mind in a head space where you free associate among many pleasurable sexual thoughts.
GONE if you're interested in techniques to stay in the moment while receiving oral sex, I would recommend you start talking dirty to your partner while she is going down on you. Relate to her what you're feeling, what sensations you find particularly arousing, relate how you find the way she looks doing this to be sexy, talk to her about your sexual fantasies involving her, relate a sexual experience that you shared together that you think about, and if your partner enjoys it, direct her actions from time-to-time.
As I mentioned @1 above, you might naturally prefer to be more engaged with her physically and more engaged in her pleasure while she performs oral sex on you. First and foremost that includes 69. When you're brain is forced to focus on pleasuring your partner, you won't be able to entertain thoughts unrelated to giving and receiving pleasure. If she's not up for 69, she can still angle her body so that you can masturbate or otherwise touch her, which should also help keep you in the moment.
Here is the very fittingly lunch time story marilynsue @ 19 was referring to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armin_Meiw…
The German guy even had the eatie(?) consenting on video.
Few years ago there was a case in the US of a woman who came back home after leaving for few hours, and found her voluntarily locked in a kennel husband dead due to some medical complication.
She still faced some legal issues despite this ongoing, mutually agreed arrangement.
In other words, any pre-choking written consent is likely to prove worthless.
Following Ricardo’s and BDF’s glowing reviews I’d like to suggest that every new born baby boy during this week should be named Hunter.
Hunteress for girls.
CMD @ 26 - That would create an interesting dilemma for Hunter, as he could find himself flattered by it... and it might even become the high point of HIS life!
CMD @26 I will offer a friendly amendment to your excellent suggestion. "Hunteress" sounds a bit contrived to my ears, but either Diana or Artemis (aka the Huntress) would make a great name for a baby girl born this week. As would "Hunter."
Regarding Dan's advice to LW3, ACRONYM: So let me get this straight. We have medical solutions for almost every organ and joint dysfunction in the human body, at least for those with the ability to pay for them before ACA is repealed and replaced, but when it comes to a woman's sexual function and her ability to orgasm in the way she once did, the answer (even from FEMALE DOCTORS) is "Bodies change. People change. Life sucks, time to move on." What's wrong with this picture?
@29: We certainly do not have medical solutions for almost every organ and joint dysfunction. Nearly every solution to knee, hip, back problems is imperfect. Millions of people have to just live with chronic pain and reduced function. Aka "bodies change."
Now, more generally: the first LW is contemplating engaging in an activity that might KILL HIS PARTNER and he's a) still contemplating it and b) concerned not about, you know, killing another person, but about ... avoiding legal responsibility?
Dan, can you publish his name so I make sure to never, ever, ever accidentally go out with this guy?
Ha ha ha! I am thoroughly enjoying all the NAMES calling.
I'm with @28 Capri---Artemis or Diana for baby girls born this week sounds like a spot on
bullseye fit.
@30 gatoverde: That was my biggest concern, too, after reading LW1 (BREATHLESS).
Um, ick.
Erica@18, While no one thinks that a waiver is a complete legal defense against negligence, etc., I agree with Gamebird that if the lw wants one to show that the person knowingly consented to engage in risky activity in the event of an accident, that the ones martial arts schools use is a good reference for what one might include. I also agree with the idea that if you are going to choke someone, some education on techniques and the effects of those techniques, with hands on training on willing partners, can only be a good thing. In my world it is inconceivable to make an argument for less education...
Gato @30, you're right that these medical solutions don't work for everyone, but they do work for many. And at least these alternatives are offered to people when they ask for them. If you have developed a bum hip that keeps you from playing a sport you've always loved, no doctor is going to shrug and say "Hey - as long as you can still walk, there's no physical issue."
I just now got the joke of Joe's cartoon this week. Choking the chicken...
Sublime @23: Good suggestion of talking dirty while receiving oral. As a giver of blowjobs, feedback is fantastic. Nothing to make it feel more like a "job" than someone silently lying back (and fantasising about other things, eek).
Perhaps GONE could try fantasising more about his girlfriend while he masturbates, too -- get himself into the habit of picturing her during horny times instead of his mental collection of randoms.
@4 - Jay is well known in the kink community as an over conservative alarmist. He tends to take rare and unlikely medical events and portray them as very likely.
I have saved a detailed takedown of Jay's essay from 2011 on the now defunct tribe.net site. Thank you anonymous user "Dale" who I'm stealing much of this from.
The basic principal is this:
if someone has a risk factor, like cardiac problems, poor health, drug use, then their risks are elevated and they probably should consider not engaging in breath play.
---- (stolen directly from Dale)
Sudden cardiac arrests (SCA) can happen at any time with little or no warning. Any exertion which raises your heart rate can induce an SCA.
*”Retrospective and cross-sectional data suggest that vigorous exertion can trigger cardiac arrest”*
[Triggering of Sudden Death from Cardiac Causes by Vigorous Exertion new england journal of medicine]
The exertion doesn’t even have to be vigorous, it can be moderate or light. Hell even normal vanilla sexual activity can trigger cardiac arrest.
[Physical activity as a trigger of sudden cardiac arrest: the Oregon Sudden Unexpected Death
Study. Int J Cardiol. 2009 Jan 24;131(3):345-9. Epub 2008 Feb 21.]
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18206253)
In spite of these facts, people participate by the millions in activities which have been known to induce SCA.
Why?, because most people don’t stop doing activities they love because there is a one in a million chance that they may die. Having sex, gardening, hauling a deer out of the woods, going for a jog, dancing have all induced cardiac arrest in thousands of people. People don’t lug around automated external defibrillators while engaging in these “dangerous activities”. If you follow the logic of some BDSM “experts” everyone should have am AED in their bedroom.
------
Looking at blood chokes, we can look at Judo and suspects placed in police choke holds.
(Dale did some pretty amazing analysis but I'm going to shorten)
In over 100 years of Judo choking, at a rate of 12 million chokes per year, there have been 0 documented cardiac arreests.
The deaths associated with police choke holds are often pointed to by anti breath play experts without considering the following:
1. suspects are frequently not in the best of health.
2. suspects may be hopped up on some form of drugs.
3. Police are taught to subdue until completely unconscious and beyond.
[1] Deaths allegedly caused by the use of "choke holds" (shime-waza).
J Forensic Sci. 1987 Mar;32(2):419-32.
Koiwai EK
[2] Cardiac Arrest in Patients Who Smoke Crack Cocaine
American Journal of Cardiology Volume 99, Issue 6 , Pages 822-824, 15 March 2007
Priscilla Y. Hsue, MD, David McManus, MD, Van Selby, MD, Xiushui Ren, MD, Priya Pillutla, MD, Naji Younes, PhD, Nora Goldschlager, MD, David D. Waters, MD
[3] Effects of alcohol on the heart
Current Opinion in Critical Care: October 2001 - Volume 7 - Issue 5 - pp 337-343
Spies, Claudia D. MD*; Sander, Michael MD*; Stangl, Karl PhD; Fernandez-Sola, Joaquim PhD;Preedy, Victor R. PhD§; Rubin, Emanuel MD; Andreasson, Sven MD; Hanna, Eleanor Z. PhD; Kox, Wolfgang J. PhD
[4]Acute phencyclidine intoxication: Incidence of clinical findings in 1,000 cases
Annals of Emergency Medicine Volume 10, Issue 5 , Pages 237-242, May 1981
MD, FACP Margaret M. McCarron, PharmD Bernd W. Schulze, PharmD Gregory A. Thompson, BA Meta C. Conder, BS, MES Walter A. Goet
[5] Unexpected death related to restraint for excited delirium: a retrospective study of deaths in police custody and in the community.
CMAJ. 1998 Jun 16;158(12):1603-7.
Pollanen MS, Chiasson DA, Cairns JT, Young JG
[6] Mortality associated with the use of upper-body control holds by police.
Violence Vict. 1990 Fall;5(3):215-22.
Mercy JA, Heath CW Jr, Rosenberg ML
-----
tldr:
* Police chokes are not a good reference by which to condemn properly executed blood chokes.
* A blood choke where the pressure is released before or *immediately* upon passing out is very low risk unless the user has elevated risk factors.
Breath play is fun, those who wish to do it should be careful and enjoy it!
@18 While holding ones breath is technically more of a breath play than the blood choke most people associate with breath play... I can't think of a single person I've ever encountered who would prefer that over a blood choke. Additionally, most of the people I have played with in this area actively dislike breath play that involves not breathing.
They're two different things and the experience is different. I wouldn't call your suggestion "wrong" just that it one that would make most of the people I know say "no thanks, I'd rather not".
@41 OK, I used a wrong word that's still close enough that people understand what I'm talking about? What about the part in my copy pasted section where the original author wrote am instead of an?
The internet is a worse place due to pedantic stuff like this.
I made a spelling mistake. One that did not fundamentally change the content of my message. Would I have rather not made that mistake, sure! I do pride myself on clarity of communication and understanding the difference between they're, there and their as well as the difference between you're and your. I even know the correct usage of it's and its!
But, can you please enlighten me as to how picking on a minor word difference (which anyone would understand the usage of) actually furthered the dialogue or did anything other than making you look like a pedantic jerk?
Seriously, if you had a problem with my premise and we had a disagreement about it, I'd consider it a difference of opinion. I'll admit that I hold an opinion on breath play that is widely privately held to be correct by (in my experience) the largest majority of kinksters while also being publicly considered incorrect due to the fear that someone could just drop dead from the activity. Something unlikely to happen from a garden variety flogging.
So, please, pick apart my argument but why waste time on inconsequential trivialities?
@Sportlandia, tachycardia, ciods, and BiDanFan, I wrote what will be my final words on the discussion over at "Grindr Etiquette." I really hope Sportlandia reads.
Monkey @ 44 - "why waste time on inconsequential trivialities"
A) Because it's fun.
B) Because I can't help it: language is both my work and (one of) my passion(s).
C) Following from B), Because I have some linguistic pet peeves that simply drive me up the wall, and I sometimes need to vent. In English, it's the lack of distinction between principle/principal and affect/effect, and people who say "I could care less".
D) Because this sort of nitpicking is common in Slog threads, and people usually take it less seriously than you did.
E) Because "pedantic" is my metaphorical middle name.
F) Most importantly, because all of us commenting here are in a way participating in a circle jerk where we're really only chatting with one another, with no actual impact on the world at large; in other words, whatever we say here is, by definition, an inconsequential triviality.
What exactly is breath play, in this context? I've had a few partners that have expressed a desire to be "choked out" during sex, but I'm personally only comfortable with a "stern hand around the throat" but mostly for safety reason. I've tried "just" restricting the bloodflow by holding the sides of their necks, but it's a little too "technical" and not nearly dominator-y enough to get the desired effect, and while I think it's safe enough, i dont know that it's totally safe. I'm more concerned about crushing a windpipe or whatever.
@Dan, @13:
I'm too lazy to look it up rn, but NAMOS sounds Greek, or Greek-ish, which might tie in to their assertion that their name is uncommon.
Also, re: breath play. I discovered that holding my own breath is fabulous for increasing the power of my orgasms (think pressure cooker, with only one small, urethra-sized escape valve).
Maybe the GFs should do that, and Mr Dom could pretend to choke them...?
"breath play"? what the fuck is up with all this namby pampy bullshit coded language. grow a fucking pair and call it what it really is...CHOKING. your lady friends are into being CHOKED, not into "breath play".
fuck, I feel like i'm surrounded by a bunch of fucking children.
tachycardia @34 - I am not a lawyer but I've been warned that writing down what one intends to do just makes the prosecutor say the crime was premeditated.
MonkeyFetish @38 - Jay makes good money testifying in criminal cases where someone ended up injured or dead. Maybe everyone with a choked-to-death partner intended to kill them, or maybe some of them happened by accident. It's clear auto-erotic asphyxiation kills people. Take the risks you choose to, but there's a reason most people don't recommend choking your partner.
Like suspects subdued by the police, one's partner may also not be in the best of health or may be hopped up on some form of drugs. It's not super uncommon for older guys to die during sex, but it's usually clear it wasn't murder. Adding serious choking to the fun may mean prison time if something goes wrong. You're welcome to view me as a prude.
Serious choking play---nope. I'll pass. That reminds me of Robert Walker as degenerate Bruno Anthony in Hitchcock's "Strangers on a Train", crashing the Senator's private party and initiating a game of "murder".
@60: Completely irrelevant. You spend your time on these threads, to play the shocked naif? Why bother slumming it with "degenerates" and tut tutting?
@53: Blah blah "snowflakes and safe spaces" blah... the framing indicates the seeking of consent/control/safety and that it's not all violence. Nobody is being led astray here.
NAMES: I would take it as a compliment and let it brighten my day on the few occasions I thought about it. She probably does value your relationship, and perhaps is even feeling a bit guilty for cheating. Move on.
#61. Snowflakes? Safe spaces? Give me a fucking break. I'll throw down liberal cred with you anytime, anywhere. I don't go for all this coded happy feely bullshit. A choke's a choke, dope.
@63 - Coded happy feely bullshit? It's just a term that those of us in the kink community use to describe a particular fetish/kink. Breathplay could be a hand across the mouth and pinching the nose closed. It could be a hand or arm across the throat, it could be a belt, or it could be more of a mindfuck as described by EricaP. There are many more ways to restrict someone's breathing than just 'CHOKE THAT BITCH OUT', ffs. I really don't understand your ire.
@63: Don't forget to whine about political correctness when you're having your snotty shitfit.
@64: Yeah, I don't get it either. It's a fairly neutral term chosen by the Fet community to cover a well-understood category of activities including but not exclusive to "choking".
The "happy feely bullshit" language is endemic to the lifestyle, if you don't like its existence stick to whatever shittycollarmedom Tumblr what spawned you, because you'll find prettified terms and phrases whenever people talk about sex acts. It doesn't change the nature of the acts, just the framing and emphasis on safety and "play" over less (ultimately) respectful concern for the partner(s) involved.
@59 BiDanFan: That would be more fitting, wouldn't it? Or Stranglers on an Out-of-control Carousel, or Stranglers in the Love Canal (at an amusement park). Hitch loved to shock his audiences.
Woof @68: Yes, that's a point. I'd say that either the father never knew his now-wife was cheating on NAMES, or feels guilty for having been the other man, or is evolved enough to just accept that a really cool name is sometimes just a really cool name, with no undue significance attached.
re @56: All kidding aside, though, I'll never be into serious choking play--ever.
Strangulation was my ex's attempt at murder which, fortunately for me, failed.
I think ol' Alfie and Rod Serling, the Son Hitch Wished He'd Had would have
had fun heaping a shitload of devilish cat-and-mouse-play upon Griz if this was
still the b&w sci-fi '60s, I'd been a generation older, and wanted to be in pictures.
Griz @74: Yikes! I'm glad the attempt failed. I too have zero interest in breath play. I'd do it if asked, but like SarahMN @5, I once had a partner try choking me without asking. UNLIKE Sarah, I did not find it hot at all, but fortunately it was an established partner rather than a potential-murderer rando (I'd be dialling 911 in that case; good thing that guy pulled Sarah and not me), and I was able to put an immediate stop to things and instruct him that this is NOT the kind of thing one tries without asking! *Shudder*
@76: Of course, by "I'd do it if asked," I mean "I would very carefully apply pressure to someone's throat if they were into that," not -- never -- "I would let someone choke me."
Monkey@44
Ricardo @46
I have a degree in English, have worked as an English teacher, have published in small mags, and have had side work in proofing and editing, BUT I make it a point not to point out spelling, vocabulary or grammar errors, either in person or on the internet, for the following reasons:
1-Anyone can make a typo, when your fingers hit the wrong key.
2-Anyone can make a homophone mistake, when you choose the wrong spelling even if you are aware of the correct one.
3-Autocorrect can mess things up,
4-Many people have suffered at the hands of a substandard US education.
5-Many people have dyslexia or other processing issues.
6-Many people do not speak English as their first langiage.
In any of the cases above, the speaker or writer still has the right to communicate without being harrassed, and no one is asking or paying me to correct their errors. Yes, you also have the right to offer unsolicited corrections, if you like, , but in my opinion, it creates a hostile vibe in an otherwise friendly community forum.
@76 & @77 BiDanFan: You're lucky to have had an established and non-psychotic partner. Yikes is right! It must have been understandably frightening for you at the time and quite possibly still, when reflecting upon the incident. Fortunately for both parties there were no fatalities, and your partner knew from then on that choke play wasn't going to be on the table--ever. I share your *Shudder*.
It's past the witching hour and Griz is once again "comfortably numb" (as Roger Waters might phrase it), but----!! I needed another movie night, and The Graduate (1967) once again kicked serious ass! Here's to you, Mrs. Robinson---and your hairdresser!
I honestly hope that predatory first letter writer is prosecuted and jailed for his actions. I don't care if his sex partners are self-harming, he is abusive and he gets off on abusing people.
Ten years on I pray she selected your name as the kid's middle name because 1. She saw it in some stupid baby name list AND 2. It fit from a "first letter" and syllable perspective AND 3. She has no animus toward you so figured why not? Especially if it's uncommon but not weird.
GONE, I think fantasizing about other partners during sex is wholly normal, and a release valve from actually cheating on a partner. But I have found that when fantasizing becomes more routine, and staying in the moment during sex required conscious thought, it suggests a lack of attraction to my current partner and a sign that I should end the relationship. You never said whether you are actually attracted to your partner, if not, your wandering mind isn't the problem. On the other hand, if this is primarily happening when you're on the receiving end of oral sex, perhaps your problem is laying back and receiving pleasure. Maybe instead of receiving blow jobs you would rather be more interactive and engage in 69 instead.
Although, maybe she was.
Excellent, Dan, and @2 biggie, on reminding ACRONYM and his wife to enjoy each other as they are NOW, rather than bitch about what once was THEN. Imagine if more heterosexual couples did just that. Would there be a lot less breakups?
http://www.jaywiseman.com/SEX_BDSM_Breat…
http://www.jaywiseman.com/SEX_BDSM_Breat…
In short: it's more dangerous than you think.
Um that's the end of my humblebrag/PSA.
NAMOS: Perhaps your ex just really liked your unusual name. At least you know that she doesn't hate you, or she wouldn't have chosen a name that suggests memories of you, right? Take it as a compliment -- on your parents' taste in baby names.
I figure it's a little different when there's a dead body though rather than simply someone in the hospital. (A guy in our studio was in the hospital for a week last month after a mixed martial arts fight where he got kicked in the chest/ribs to the point that his lung collapsed after the match. No one got sued. The promoters of the event carried insurance for precisely this outcome.) There's precedent outside the bedroom for people agreeing to engage in known, dangerous activities. RACK should check that out.
Also, anyone into breath play (as a receiver or giver) really should try a month or two of jujitsu, or at least some private lessons, with a focus on chokes. The body responds differently to blood or air chokes, and there is a lot of information about pressure points and technique that would be helpful. The classic 'rape choke' grip, for example, is actually a lousy way to choke someone, but a good way to leave bruises all over them. So take some lessons, up your game, and hey, learn some self defense while you're at it.
A fairly safe way to do breath control would be to order the bottom to hold their breath, with painful consequences for breathing. People can make themselves pass out, but at that point they start breathing again. The top needs to keep the bottom from hitting their head if they pass out, that's probably the biggest danger.
NAMES – Obsess much? Time to get a life, muchacho. Who gives a shit what she named her kid? Be glad it wasn't NAMES Junior.
GONE if you're interested in techniques to stay in the moment while receiving oral sex, I would recommend you start talking dirty to your partner while she is going down on you. Relate to her what you're feeling, what sensations you find particularly arousing, relate how you find the way she looks doing this to be sexy, talk to her about your sexual fantasies involving her, relate a sexual experience that you shared together that you think about, and if your partner enjoys it, direct her actions from time-to-time.
As I mentioned @1 above, you might naturally prefer to be more engaged with her physically and more engaged in her pleasure while she performs oral sex on you. First and foremost that includes 69. When you're brain is forced to focus on pleasuring your partner, you won't be able to entertain thoughts unrelated to giving and receiving pleasure. If she's not up for 69, she can still angle her body so that you can masturbate or otherwise touch her, which should also help keep you in the moment.
The German guy even had the eatie(?) consenting on video.
Few years ago there was a case in the US of a woman who came back home after leaving for few hours, and found her voluntarily locked in a kennel husband dead due to some medical complication.
She still faced some legal issues despite this ongoing, mutually agreed arrangement.
In other words, any pre-choking written consent is likely to prove worthless.
Hunteress for girls.
Now, more generally: the first LW is contemplating engaging in an activity that might KILL HIS PARTNER and he's a) still contemplating it and b) concerned not about, you know, killing another person, but about ... avoiding legal responsibility?
Dan, can you publish his name so I make sure to never, ever, ever accidentally go out with this guy?
I'm with @28 Capri---Artemis or Diana for baby girls born this week sounds like a spot on
bullseye fit.
@30 gatoverde: That was my biggest concern, too, after reading LW1 (BREATHLESS).
Um, ick.
http://nypost.com/2017/05/23/murder-susp…
I just now got the joke of Joe's cartoon this week. Choking the chicken...
Perhaps GONE could try fantasising more about his girlfriend while he masturbates, too -- get himself into the habit of picturing her during horny times instead of his mental collection of randoms.
And how do we all know RACK is male?
@4 - Jay is well known in the kink community as an over conservative alarmist. He tends to take rare and unlikely medical events and portray them as very likely.
I have saved a detailed takedown of Jay's essay from 2011 on the now defunct tribe.net site. Thank you anonymous user "Dale" who I'm stealing much of this from.
The basic principal is this:
if someone has a risk factor, like cardiac problems, poor health, drug use, then their risks are elevated and they probably should consider not engaging in breath play.
---- (stolen directly from Dale)
Sudden cardiac arrests (SCA) can happen at any time with little or no warning. Any exertion which raises your heart rate can induce an SCA.
*”Retrospective and cross-sectional data suggest that vigorous exertion can trigger cardiac arrest”*
[Triggering of Sudden Death from Cardiac Causes by Vigorous Exertion new england journal of medicine]
The exertion doesn’t even have to be vigorous, it can be moderate or light. Hell even normal vanilla sexual activity can trigger cardiac arrest.
[Physical activity as a trigger of sudden cardiac arrest: the Oregon Sudden Unexpected Death
Study. Int J Cardiol. 2009 Jan 24;131(3):345-9. Epub 2008 Feb 21.]
(www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18206253)
In spite of these facts, people participate by the millions in activities which have been known to induce SCA.
Why?, because most people don’t stop doing activities they love because there is a one in a million chance that they may die. Having sex, gardening, hauling a deer out of the woods, going for a jog, dancing have all induced cardiac arrest in thousands of people. People don’t lug around automated external defibrillators while engaging in these “dangerous activities”. If you follow the logic of some BDSM “experts” everyone should have am AED in their bedroom.
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Looking at blood chokes, we can look at Judo and suspects placed in police choke holds.
(Dale did some pretty amazing analysis but I'm going to shorten)
In over 100 years of Judo choking, at a rate of 12 million chokes per year, there have been 0 documented cardiac arreests.
The deaths associated with police choke holds are often pointed to by anti breath play experts without considering the following:
1. suspects are frequently not in the best of health.
2. suspects may be hopped up on some form of drugs.
3. Police are taught to subdue until completely unconscious and beyond.
[1] Deaths allegedly caused by the use of "choke holds" (shime-waza).
J Forensic Sci. 1987 Mar;32(2):419-32.
Koiwai EK
[2] Cardiac Arrest in Patients Who Smoke Crack Cocaine
American Journal of Cardiology Volume 99, Issue 6 , Pages 822-824, 15 March 2007
Priscilla Y. Hsue, MD, David McManus, MD, Van Selby, MD, Xiushui Ren, MD, Priya Pillutla, MD, Naji Younes, PhD, Nora Goldschlager, MD, David D. Waters, MD
[3] Effects of alcohol on the heart
Current Opinion in Critical Care: October 2001 - Volume 7 - Issue 5 - pp 337-343
Spies, Claudia D. MD*; Sander, Michael MD*; Stangl, Karl PhD; Fernandez-Sola, Joaquim PhD;Preedy, Victor R. PhD§; Rubin, Emanuel MD; Andreasson, Sven MD; Hanna, Eleanor Z. PhD; Kox, Wolfgang J. PhD
[4]Acute phencyclidine intoxication: Incidence of clinical findings in 1,000 cases
Annals of Emergency Medicine Volume 10, Issue 5 , Pages 237-242, May 1981
MD, FACP Margaret M. McCarron, PharmD Bernd W. Schulze, PharmD Gregory A. Thompson, BA Meta C. Conder, BS, MES Walter A. Goet
[5] Unexpected death related to restraint for excited delirium: a retrospective study of deaths in police custody and in the community.
CMAJ. 1998 Jun 16;158(12):1603-7.
Pollanen MS, Chiasson DA, Cairns JT, Young JG
[6] Mortality associated with the use of upper-body control holds by police.
Violence Vict. 1990 Fall;5(3):215-22.
Mercy JA, Heath CW Jr, Rosenberg ML
-----
tldr:
* Police chokes are not a good reference by which to condemn properly executed blood chokes.
* A blood choke where the pressure is released before or *immediately* upon passing out is very low risk unless the user has elevated risk factors.
Breath play is fun, those who wish to do it should be careful and enjoy it!
They're two different things and the experience is different. I wouldn't call your suggestion "wrong" just that it one that would make most of the people I know say "no thanks, I'd rather not".
https://www.dropbox.com/s/b5z23l9if7ir04…
The internet is a worse place due to pedantic stuff like this.
Any language is worse off due to the flippant attitude you (and countless others) display about it.
I made a spelling mistake. One that did not fundamentally change the content of my message. Would I have rather not made that mistake, sure! I do pride myself on clarity of communication and understanding the difference between they're, there and their as well as the difference between you're and your. I even know the correct usage of it's and its!
But, can you please enlighten me as to how picking on a minor word difference (which anyone would understand the usage of) actually furthered the dialogue or did anything other than making you look like a pedantic jerk?
Seriously, if you had a problem with my premise and we had a disagreement about it, I'd consider it a difference of opinion. I'll admit that I hold an opinion on breath play that is widely privately held to be correct by (in my experience) the largest majority of kinksters while also being publicly considered incorrect due to the fear that someone could just drop dead from the activity. Something unlikely to happen from a garden variety flogging.
So, please, pick apart my argument but why waste time on inconsequential trivialities?
A) Because it's fun.
B) Because I can't help it: language is both my work and (one of) my passion(s).
C) Following from B), Because I have some linguistic pet peeves that simply drive me up the wall, and I sometimes need to vent. In English, it's the lack of distinction between principle/principal and affect/effect, and people who say "I could care less".
D) Because this sort of nitpicking is common in Slog threads, and people usually take it less seriously than you did.
E) Because "pedantic" is my metaphorical middle name.
F) Most importantly, because all of us commenting here are in a way participating in a circle jerk where we're really only chatting with one another, with no actual impact on the world at large; in other words, whatever we say here is, by definition, an inconsequential triviality.
I could go on for hours, but I've got work to do.
For folks who are into it, what are they doing?
Back to the topic, it'd be nice if he was as concerned about the well being of his partner as he was about the results of her potential death.
Friend, you know the answer to these questions will never satisfy. There's always someone with more time on their hands than you on the internet.
I'm too lazy to look it up rn, but NAMOS sounds Greek, or Greek-ish, which might tie in to their assertion that their name is uncommon.
Also, re: breath play. I discovered that holding my own breath is fabulous for increasing the power of my orgasms (think pressure cooker, with only one small, urethra-sized escape valve).
Maybe the GFs should do that, and Mr Dom could pretend to choke them...?
I think Nomos might be the word I'm thinking of.
Still too lazy to look it up tho.
fuck, I feel like i'm surrounded by a bunch of fucking children.
MonkeyFetish @38 - Jay makes good money testifying in criminal cases where someone ended up injured or dead. Maybe everyone with a choked-to-death partner intended to kill them, or maybe some of them happened by accident. It's clear auto-erotic asphyxiation kills people. Take the risks you choose to, but there's a reason most people don't recommend choking your partner.
Like suspects subdued by the police, one's partner may also not be in the best of health or may be hopped up on some form of drugs. It's not super uncommon for older guys to die during sex, but it's usually clear it wasn't murder. Adding serious choking to the fun may mean prison time if something goes wrong. You're welcome to view me as a prude.
@53: Blah blah "snowflakes and safe spaces" blah... the framing indicates the seeking of consent/control/safety and that it's not all violence. Nobody is being led astray here.
@64: Yeah, I don't get it either. It's a fairly neutral term chosen by the Fet community to cover a well-understood category of activities including but not exclusive to "choking".
Just consider it a lack of imagination on his part.
Griz @69: Congrats!
Strangulation was my ex's attempt at murder which, fortunately for me, failed.
I think ol' Alfie and Rod Serling, the Son Hitch Wished He'd Had would have
had fun heaping a shitload of devilish cat-and-mouse-play upon Griz if this was
still the b&w sci-fi '60s, I'd been a generation older, and wanted to be in pictures.
Ricardo @46
I have a degree in English, have worked as an English teacher, have published in small mags, and have had side work in proofing and editing, BUT I make it a point not to point out spelling, vocabulary or grammar errors, either in person or on the internet, for the following reasons:
1-Anyone can make a typo, when your fingers hit the wrong key.
2-Anyone can make a homophone mistake, when you choose the wrong spelling even if you are aware of the correct one.
3-Autocorrect can mess things up,
4-Many people have suffered at the hands of a substandard US education.
5-Many people have dyslexia or other processing issues.
6-Many people do not speak English as their first langiage.
In any of the cases above, the speaker or writer still has the right to communicate without being harrassed, and no one is asking or paying me to correct their errors. Yes, you also have the right to offer unsolicited corrections, if you like, , but in my opinion, it creates a hostile vibe in an otherwise friendly community forum.
"2-Anyone can make a homophone mistake,"
I'm an ESL and wonder if I miss something.
Yup, "helpful" suggestions are rarely offered in good faith.