Savage Love

Virgin Territory

Comments

1
Yes we would all lick/suck/etc our own genitals if we could. Even if we didn't do it all the time, I would be shocked (shocked!) if people don't do it at least once. Sometimes I try to lick my own nipples and I'm always disappointed that no, still can't do it.
2
YUCK: "Would most guys suck their own dick if they were able?"

Oh, hell yes!
3
But we wouldn't swallow.

Or probably come in our own mouths at all.
4
"There once was a man from Nantucket..."

I'm pretty vanilla sexually, but this doesn't seem to me to even qualify as mild kink. It's just one of those fun and goofy post-ejaculation things that some people do. But since it bothers LW3, she should absolutely ask BF about it and allow him to explain his motivations, or lack thereof. If she is super-bothered or disgusted (rather than just very surprised since he is her first partner to do this), she should tell him that, too, and ask him to try not do it when she is around.

I wonder if LW3 realized how hilariously this sentence read: "At first I was worried my aversion might be rooted in some deeply buried homophobic beliefs, but we've discussed the idea of me pegging him, and that I can get behind."
5
YUCK: I think there’s a chance that your boyfriend is trying to tell you that he’d like you to lick the come off his fingers. He wants the conversation.
6
LW1 (TVWBFAWLJNITGW): I am so sorry to read about what you have gone through!
Wishing you all the best and good luck. We're rooting for you.
re YUCK: I don't think I've ever heard of a guy who HASN'T dreamt of autofellatio (sucking his own dick).
@4 Capricornius: Yep--I was just thinking about that old familiar rhyme, too.
By the way, this is so last week (SL: Get Out), but did you ever read my responses
to your comment @100? I was agreeing with you, but couldn't see my comment.
Were there complaints to anything I posted, or is Savage Love now limiting comments
to 100 per week?
7
@6: Awwww, !@#$--not again! Sorry, Dan and everybody. I thought I'd indented properly.
8
"About 25 percent of the time after he ejaculates, he briefly licks some of his come off his fingers" sounds like quality control testing to me, checking in on taste and texture. Maybe to keep aware of the situation when she gives blowjobs, or because he wants the conversation as @5 Blue Texas suggests. If that's the case, I think it's just as likely he wants to come on/in her and then lick it up himself, as he wants her to lick it off his fingers.
9
Okay----thanks, Dan and BiDanFan, about what happened with comments after @100 in last week's Savage Love (Get Out). I'm glad we now have a Page 1 and Page 2 for every 100 comments. Bless you---I was getting worried that I'd been banned from Savage Love.
10
YUCK ~ "I wouldn't go around shoving my fingers inside my pussy and rubbing the results all over my face..."
But I (and I'm willing to bet, a substantial portion of the straight male population) would love to see that! Please reconsider!

I think that "boyfriend" may be a bit of a narcissist. Or maybe he thinks it's sexy and turns you on in a "women like gay porn" kind of way. Where have I heard this before...use your words and tell him it creeps you out. We don't all have to like every little thing our partners do. If he's considerate, he'll knock it off. It's not like you're asking him to change his entire personality, just stop doing an annoying habit.

BTW, Griz, et al...comments are still glitchy...I posted afresh on the "new & improved" page two and it still didn't show...
11
@11 DonnyKlicious: I noticed that, and it happened to me too, when I went back to SL: Get Out to respond to your comments @102 and @104. I'm just grateful not to have been yanked. I thoroughly enjoyed your AACK-OOP. Thanks! I wish Bill and Opus were in the White House----they'd do an infinitely better job---despite plumbing problems.
12
Or maybe YUCK's BF likes it? I find it kinda hot, myself. Rather fond of ordering my partner to clean up his mess. I haven't heard any objections so far.
13
As opposed to what some may have told you here not all penis-havers would be so delighted to suck on their very own even if they could.
Some may lick their fingers; others wipe their hands and wash right away.
Some will suck on a penis that just exited their vagina and/or ass, while others wouldn’t. Some rim, some don’t.

sanguisuga @ 12
I’m glad it works for you and your partner, and my guess is you’re right that YUCK's BF likes it and is probably trying to tell her something.

Some like it hot, some others don’t. Hot is in the eye of the wannabe holder.

14
Capricornius @4: Yup, I added a "fnar fnar" after YUCK's "that I can get behind" as well.

If I could detach my own head, damn right I'd lick my own pussy. Who'd need a partner then?

My first thought was that Mr YUCK had simply got some spillage on his fingers and was cleaning it up in the most efficient way possible. Or he wants to show he doesn't have an irrational, homophobic attitude to his own bodily fluids (see comment @3). Or he wants to encourage her to lick it off by showing her how tasty it is. She should, firstly, decide whether this bothers her or just confuses her, and secondly, open the conversation with an open mind ("I've never seen a guy lick up his own spooge before. Are you doing that for my benefit?"). If he's hoping to turn her on, he should be told it's having the opposite effect.

YUCK, if his explanation satisfies you -- if his reasoning doesn't involve his ego -- I suggest you give snowballing a try. It's hot. (Perhaps that's what he's hinting at?)
15
Concerning YUCK, I'm wondering if it's the visuals of her bf licking his semen off his fingers that's at the root of her discomfort / aversion. If Mr. YUCK was incidentally ingesting his own semen, for instance going down on YUCK after ejaculating inside her pussy, YUCK might not be so turned off. But Mr. YUCK appears to want to eat some of his semen, and YUCK is of the mind the we ingest the the sexual fluids of our partners, but not our own, at least not for its own sake. What came to my mind was the Kentucky Fried Chicken tagline, "It's Finger Lickin' Good," and YUCK is turned off by the idea that Mr. YUCK finds his own sexual fluids so demonstrably tasty.

In any event, I think YUCK needs to discuss this with Mr. YUCK. YUCK finds watching Mr. YUCK lick his semen off his fingers gross, and I suppose whether it's irrational or not, she can be entitled to ask him not to do that one thing. But perhaps she would find it less of a turn off if Mr. YUCK licked his semen off of her stomach, breasts, or face. And if Mr. YUCK really needs to do this, he can still do so when flying solo.
16
Why is it
17
"I think it's more that this smacks of a certain egotism I find frivolous. Like, I wouldn't go around shoving my fingers inside my pussy and rubbing the results all over my face."

She hasn't really made a convincing argument on why either scenario should bother their partner.

What, you prefer him to wipe his hands on you or the bedspread?

I don't get the claim of "narcissism".
18
@15: "But perhaps she would find it less of a turn off if Mr. YUCK licked his semen off of her stomach, breasts, or face"

Oh, I doubt very much that this scenario would make her any less annoyed and judgy.
19
So what if it does involve his ego or some macho virility thing? I don't see why that's bad (or makes him a narcissist, really?!) so long as he's not egotistical that way in real life. If this is about his ego, he'd certainly not be the first guy to feel like his dick was an amazing thing or that his semen was some amazing stuff. Let the dude enjoy himself if he likes it. If it creeps the LW out, that could be a problem. I guess it depends on how creeped out the LW is whether or not it's worth unpacking. When things are harmless and not a problem in other aspects of life, I tend to think it's better to just not overthink things.
20
Also, doesn't sex generally involve egos and frivolity? It's an indulgence, right?
21
My heart goes out to the first, inexperienced LW. One thing I'd say is that perhaps his father wasn't so revolted by his having sex as he thinks. 'Penile lobotomy' implies his father can see him having sex, because he's young, attractive and so on--but it would be a bad time, probably because of the family's poverty. The LW clearly has a complex, chequered past, but maybe his father wasn't only scary.
22
I once dated a woman who liked me to go down on her after I came inside her because the thought of me tasting my own come turned her on; I pretended to enjoy it for her sake. Dan is spot on with his advice for YUCK - ask him about it in a non-judgemental way.
23
@20 - Excellent point. My current partner and I like to fuck in the bathroom sometimes because there's a large mirror in there ... 100% ego and frivolity and 100% enjoyable for us both.
24
Liberal @23: Perhaps that's the difference: Fucking in front of a mirror is an ego-indulgence for you both, while Mr YUCK's licking his own semen is a (perceived) ego-indulgence just for him. Is YUCK feeling left out? Does she like the taste of his cum? Perhaps she'd prefer to be the one licking it off him? Or is she just grossed out by cum generally? She says she understands swallowing is "a common turn-on," but how does she feel about it?
25
"I wouldn't go around shoving my fingers inside my pussy and rubbing the results all over my face..." Can you tell me where this policy is written? Who told you this? Pussy face is the new rage.

You need to watch the first ten minutes of the movie "Rid of Me".
26
Apologies for the fragment. I signed up and didn't expect it to automatically post.

Why is it a given that YUCK's discomfort with their partner licking his semen off of his own fingers should mean that it has to stop around YUCK? I understand why it is an option. I understand why should be considered. I don't understand why it is just implicit that, if YUCK doesn't like it and their partner does, YUCK's discomfort takes precedence.

I admit that I am projecting or something similar, but I consider GGG to mean that you consider letting something like this slide. I can't really see how it imposes *even if* YUCK is bothered at first blush.
27
Entity, I agree but I suppose the logic works like this. If something causes you pleasure and your partner pleasure, great. If it causes you pleasure and your partner indifference, great. If it causes you pleasure and your partner displeasure, then which should be prioritized? Generally I think it's not GGG to say the partner should grin and bear something that actually causes them displeasure (rather than just something they could live without).

But in this case, yup I agree that it's not like the LW is being asked to grin and bear something that she actually causes her displeasure, just to visually witness something she thinks is gross. I was wondering why she just doesn't look away. But then the answer is that it is bothering her on a psychological level. She is disturbed by it. And she's trying to unpack why- why it bothers her and why he seems to like it. To me, it seems better not to go down that path. Just let it be and look away. If she can't do this - then it's really bothering her in some deeper way, then that probably has more to do with her because it's a minor thing here, not like she's being asked to do something she doesn't like.

As far as being GGG, I agree with you in this case, but I do think generally someone else's discomfort (rather than just indifference) does take precedence over the partner's pleasure. We all do things from time to time that don't work for us because they work for our partners, and probably we all do things we don't really like (a position that requires more effort than fun because the other person likes it, etc) but to do something that actually causes discomfort- I don't think it's GGG to expect someone to do that. The question is how you define discomfort, and I suppose that's highly individual.
28
Granted we are gay but my partner and myself eat each other's semen and our own all the time. To each their own but I think it is totally hot when my partner sucks me off and then makes out with me with his mouth still full of my semen.

I get the sense that YUCK finds semen and vaginal fluids gross in general ("Like, I wouldn't go around shoving my fingers inside my pussy and rubbing the results all over my face") which IMHO is an issue she needs to deal with. Like I have no special affinity for semen in general, like I don't eat my own when I jerk off but it's the inevitable product of something I enjoy doing so given how often and how much I enjoy putting mine in my partners butt, mouth and on his face I think there is something sexy about getting a taste of my own medicine so to speak.

I'm trying to figure out the right words, basically it comes down to this, I really, really like it when my partner sucks my dick until I have an orgasm, the inevitable outcome of that is he gets a mouth full of my semen. I can't take a negative view of that and still enjoy getting blowjobs, the mouth full of my semen is part of the deal and if I thought there was something gross about him sucking my dick that would seem kind of degrading to him. Instead I view it as hot and by extension if it is hot for him to have a mouth full of my semen why shouldn't it being in my own mouth be hot as well?
29
Undead@17, Emma@19 ...I don't get the claim of "narcissism"...
That was a bit of a stretch – grasping at straws, maybe, "I love myself so much I'm gonna continually eat my own come – can't get enough of me!..." as I said, a bit of a stretch. Not like I haven't swallowed my own come for fun, but not continually/always...but that's just me. The problem here is that she doesn't like it.

entity@26 – As EmmaLiz@27 said, if you are causing your partner discomfort, it is up to you pay attention to his/her distress (real or imagined) and take reasonable steps to assuage said discomfort. That is the caring thing to do. Now, that doesn't mean you have to stop the behavior. Maybe you can reach a mutually agreeable compromise that allows both partners to get some of what they want. And, while I think it's the do-er's responsibility to fix the problem, in a healthy relationship you both work it out. Hopefully, just like learning to like the taste of beer, she'll grow to accept it a bit as "just one of those things" that makes her partner happy.
30
I disagree with both ent @26 and Emma @27. Ent @26 because GGG does not mean simply saying "OK, not ready for that, but I guess I can get into whatever you're into!" regardless of what your partner likes or expects in bed. Emma @27 because YUCK is highly unlikely to find comfort in simply looking the other way, "La la la, aren't we just having a great GGG time here!" while BF continues to suck his own semen with obvious relish.

This message is for everyone, but especially for non-assertive people out there who are potentially being coerced into unwanted sexual activity for fear of being labeled as non-GGG. If you have ANY objections, fears, worries (especially if you're inexperienced or unfamiliar with the practice), undesired pain, or just a major squick factor regarding any sexual activity proposed or initiated by your partner, you have an obligation to USE YOUR WORDS (Dan's term, so applicable to so many situations both sexual and non-sexual, for ages 3 to 103!) and let them know that it bothers you. You may find yourself able to engage in GGG sex after hearing what partner has to say about it, or after agreeing to trust them to lead you without exceeding your limits; then again you may never get there, despite wishing you could do it if only to please them. It's up to you to set your own hard limits and say no, that's just not OK with me. You can also set soft limits and say I'm not comfortable with this now, but I'll think about it and maybe we can try again in the future. You are ALWAYS entitled to determine your own boundaries as to what you will or won't do with your body, and you should not engage in sexual activity with anyone who tries to convince you otherwise. (Unless, of course, that is your self-chosen kink.)

Ent, Emma and I are all in total agreement that finger-lickin' is really no big deal - but we are not YUCK, and she is obviously bothered by it. BF deserves to hear that, and then they can decide how to move forward from there as a couple. When she does open up, BF's reactions will tell YUCK a lot about his feelings for her. Does he care about her concerns, and encourage her to tell him why it bothers her so much? Is he willing to change his habit, or at least be less obvious about it, if she still feels uncomfortable about it after their discussion?

32
@30 But I don't think she has a valid concern, I think she is being very irrationally sex negative, she even expressed disgust with her own vaginal secretions.

It's his semen in his mouth, if it bothers her she shouldn't look but the bigger problem is that implied view that semen is somehow gross and it's not. Does she not blow him? Does she not want him to go down on her? Do they use a condom for all vaginal/anal sex?

Semen is the inevitable product of sex, period. If there is something gross about it going in his mouth the obvious implication is that it isn't any better in her vagina or butt or mouth.

She really needs to work on why she finds semen so gross, I can't imagine a reason that isn't very sex negative.
33
Weird. I not only enjoy watching my partner lick her own pussy juice off of things (her fingers, my fingers, my cock, etc), I like making her do it.

Sounds like YUCK is telling herself an unhelpful story. Change the story.
34
John M @31, "sex-negative" is in the eyes of the beholder. It is not up to a committee of one's peers to determine what practices should be in everyone's standard sexual repertoire. YUCK deserves to be able to feel comfortable with her partner in bed, and if that means she has a serious squick issue with BF's semen-licking, that's just the way it is. You and I have no right to judge her about it, or try to shame her into being more tolerant, just because it's a non-issue for us. Sex is notoriously not a one-size-fits-all proposition, or even a one-size-fits-most.

Would you want to be labeled as sex-negative if you couldn't be GGG about a kink you found distinctly unsexy, to the point of being downright disgusting? The difference between YUCK's distaste for sucking one's own juices, and your own for an outrageous (to you) kinky behavior, is negligible. What we like, and what we emphatically do NOT like, will always be highly personal and highly subjective.

I think it's quite possible that YUCK will be less concerned about BF's semen-licking after they talk about it, or as the two of them gradually become more comfortable and relaxed in their sex play. But I don't see any benefit in telling her now that it's not a valid concern, and she should get over it already.
35
Umm, that would be John M @32, not 31. Also, I should add two important caveats to my comment @34, which may be obvious to some but perhaps not to all. First, each of us is entitled to our own set of sexual likes, dislikes, and boundary lines, but it's never a good idea to think of our own preferences as being the morally or culturally superior choice for anyone else. Second, I hope it's obvious that if your partner has sexual limits that strongly conflict with your own personal desires, you can either adjust your expectations to accommodate partner's preferences, or find a more sexually compatible partner.
36
I took issue with the sense that a partner's discomfort just wins as a rule. I realize that I did, especially at the end, deem the issue 'not a big deal' which muddied my point.

Yes. Use your words if you are are made uncomfortable by something that your partner likes. They should pay attention to you and your feelings. You are entitled to comfort. Your partner is as well. We tend to frame the negotiation in terms of discomfort that will not and cannot be altered or lessened. So often, the statement is "decide if you can deal with it" and "they decide if they can live without it."

That just doesn't seem tenable. Folks will need to work in both directions.
37
I'm surprised by the number of people seem to think it's more important for YUCK to ask her boyfriend why he does this than to ask herself why it bothers her so much. The latter seems more relevant and a more productive inquiry to me.
38
Ent @37, I get what you're saying now, and you're right - both partners have to be willing to venture beyond their ideal preferences in order to settle on what they both need to be sexually satisfied. However, I still have a big problem with over-generalizing "GGG" as anything your partner really wants and pushes you to do for them. It's a slippery slope from there to sexual coercion, in which you accede to your partner's wishes from a place of feeling pressured, resentful, and possibly fearful that they will walk out on you if you say no, rather than from a place of generosity, trust, and openness to mutual experimentation and accommodation. GGG behavior should feel joyous and voluntary, not like it's a grudging payment on a partnership obligation.
39
@38 She isn't being asked to do anything, it's his semen, his finger and his mouth and a natural product of sex designed to go into an orifice and be processed by the body.

The root of this issue is that she thinks there is something offensive about semen and vaginal fluids, it's part of sex and if she can't deal with it then she doesn't have a healthy view of sex. His mouth, her vagina, what difference does it make?
40
@31/John M: I think you're reading too much into YUCK's letter. Although it's ambiguous as to whether she allows Mr. YUCK to climax in her mouth, I understood her to do so (or at least find this to be a non-objectionable practice in her view). Indeed, YUCK seemed to suggest that she understood that for many men, seeing a partner swallow their semen is an import part of a blow job.

As I wrote above, YUCK seems to be of the belief that imbibing one's own sexual fluids, other than incidentally, is gross, at least in so far as Mr. YUCK's licking it off his fingers, like barbecue sauce that his dripped off his food. I know many people who broadly fall into this camp: willing to taste their partner's fluids, uninterested or adverse to tasting their own in any quantity.

In any event, there is something about what Mr. YUCK is doing that seems to turn YUCK off. In part, it may be a simple hang up about sexual fluids, but it may also be this particular visual. Here, I'm of the view that if this is a real turnoff for YUCK, then Mr. YUCK should refrain from this activity during sex with YUCK. That said, perhaps during the conversation everyone seem to agree should occur, YUCK may come to some understanding that allows Mr. YUCK to enjoy what he does about this act, without turning off YUCK.
41
@13 CMDwannabe: Some like it hot.......forgive me for going a bit off-topic but that gives me fond memories of Tony, Jack, and Marilyn. As you, Dan, and everyone else can see, I watch a lot of movies.
42
I can relate somewhat to YUCK. When sexually active while dating and married, I never really liked the taste or texture of sperm, either. Instead, I found myself more fascinated when my BF and later husband (now ex) would jack off after a blowjob, watching his fully erect cock erupt like a volcano. The thrill then has long since worn off, though.
43
@42: For those curious, my ex-husband did come in my mouth before, several times. He wanted to come in my mouth way back when, and, to be GGG, I relented. I wish the experience could have been more pleasant and pleasurable for both us, though. I had to insist on stopping; he was too aggressive in my mouth, and I felt like I was gagging.
44
Does YUCK want to get back with this man because she has affection for him, that's the first question she needs to answer. Does she want this enough to trust this man can dial back his kinks.
Sounds to me like these two are not sexually compatible and I don't see why Dan doesn't see the danger here, for the future.
45
@44 LavaGirl: Good points made regarding YUCK.
46
I'm surprised anyone here is surprised at the guy licking up his own cum. A quick look around Tumblr would show that this is very common.
47
Please disregard @44. Totally got it arse over tit.
YUCK is about finger licking and the daily thread is about kinks.
YUCK, the man is probably short on protein and you deny him a ready source.
48
You're as out of it as I am Grizelda!
49
@48 LavaGirl, re my comments @42 & @43: Okay. I guess YUCK's situation is really about kinks. So you're right, my story doesn't relate. I am admittedly quite the prude.
50
@49: Correction---what you said was right, (re @47) Lava: YUCK's situation is about finger-licking, and the comment thread is about kinks.

Okay--Griz is shutting up now.
51
One last thought: maybe past experience, as described in comments @42 & @43 is what consequentially made me a prude now.

Okay. Seriously----next commenter.
52
No Grizelda, I wasn't referring to your story. To you backing my comment, which was for the daily thread. All good girl.
53
BTW, I apologize if the solution to this has been covered already, but I also can't get past comment 100 on last week's column...what am I missing? I see no "page two" option...
54
As for the LW everyone's focused on, I don't get why "would most guys suck their own dick" is even part of the question. Sucking your own dick doesn't seem to me to be related at all to wanting to taste your own come. Or maybe I'm projecting, but at least on my end, the joy of dick-sucking is unrelated to (or even in spite of) the taste/texture of come--which I will and do swallow, because screw it, it's only a few seconds, but which I would be fair pressed to say tastes good. If offered to me independently of an action that directly turns on my partner, I would have to decline.
55
Honestly, my bet is that he got some on his fingers so he's licking it off because licking off your fingers is a thing that comes naturally to some people, and they don't think of it as gross, or think of it at all, really. Same as if he was cutting an apple and got some juice on his fingers, or eating a cookie and got a little chocolate chip melt. Other people would wash their hands in those circumstances.

Rather than considering whether this makes her homophobic, or sex negative, I'd just put it down to having been raised with slightly better table manners.
56
ciods @54, for a short while there were two pages to the comments, but now the second page seems to have disappeared again. I did notice that there was a spammer comment at the end of the second page, so maybe in the process of scouring that dreck away, they took all the legit comments with it.

agony @55, I agree! But YUCK is unlikely to resolve her concerns until she talks to him about it.
57
I wonder if YUCK's perception of her BF's predilection would change if he were to 'clean up' some of the semen left behind in other areas in a similar manner. Some women really appear to appreciate the effort, IMO.
58
Despite risking my sex-positive cardholder status I wonder what this jihad on YUCK is all about. Further risking it I would also question the commonality of this phenomenon as presented by her.
Some local jihadis framed self-consumption in the context of a partnered play of some sort, which is also how I learned about it. Yet here we have someone doing it totally voluntarily and in a very casual manner.
This is neither judgmental nor shaming, just describing the assumed situation.

And regardless of how common this may be, I personally wouldn’t take corresponding images on the web as a clear sign of popularity, it is new to YUCK.
She may change her mind in the future, but right now she doesn’t like. Yes, she should discuss it with bf, but she also has a right to have her own preferences.
A similar behavior that comes to mind, though not sexual, is putting your finger in your mouth right after it came out of your nostril. Yes, your stuff and your mouth, but some times it may be better to keep your habits to yourself in consideration of others.
59
CMD @58 that's the same point I've been trying to make throughout this thread. YUCK is entitled to set her own boundaries around what she thinks is OK and what is not, even if she may change her mind in the future. I doubt it would constitute an enormous sexual sacrifice on BF's part to suppress his finger-lickin' habit while in her company, if she continues to be squicked out about it.
60
Or scratching your bum, picking your nose and then putting it into one's mouth. Triple YUCK. You are being very considerate, CMD. Then she should just tell him. Why write to Dan about something that could easily be dealt with in situ.
Women writing in here seem to often balk at being up front, like they worry there is a thing they should know about before they give their response irl.
61
LW 1:
* Get some exercise. Heavy, vigorous exercise. It's great for mood, and losing weight will increase both your self-confidence and your potential dating pool. (Plus, the better shape you're in, the better at fucking you'll be.)
* Become interesting. Seriously. Interesting people attract interesting people. Get really good at something, or a couple of somethings. It doesn't matter what (well, at least one of them shouldn't be video games.) Rock climbing, needlepoint, chess, DJing, postcolonial literary theory, swing dancing, it doesn't matter.
* Learn how to cook. And well. Again, the primary beneficiary is you (among other things, learning to cook healthy yummy food will help with your goal of getting in shape and having lots of energy) but if/when you invite women over, damn if that's not a serious point in your favor.
* Learn to give amazing head. I'm of two minds on the sex worker thing: my only worry is that they'll feel pressured to fake it/etc rather than giving you honest feedback (full disclosure: I've never hired a sex worker, and as far as I know nobody I know has worked as such.) Seriously, if you make a woman cum so hard she passes out, it's hardly relevant at all whether your dick is doing what you want it to, or whether it looks the way you want it to.

*Finally: stop seeing yourself as a bundle of liabilities. This is absolutely the hardest, which is why I'm listing it last: it may take a good while of getting in great shape, learning to cook, developing your guitar-playing/bookbinding/robot-engineering skills, before you learn to really see all the wonderful things about yourself and see yourself as someone who's right for some other woman out there. Nobody's right for everybody, but there may be someone who meshes very well with *you.* However, if you see yourself as a big old ball of liabilities (sorry), then you won't find her. Nor should you.
Here's predicting that within a year or few, you're a salsa-dancing, furniture-restoring, crazy-good cook dude who makes women's toes curl and is happily wading into the mess of finding women to fuck/love/be disappointed by/explore/possibly settle down with. And that you're enjoying the messy process.
62
Gato @61 - Well said, this is excellent advice for LW1. Bravo!
63
@52 LavaGirl: No sweat. It's all good.
@61 gatoverde: I second Capricornius's bravo on excellent advice for TVWBFAWLJNITGW (LW1). I could not have said it better.

@56-@60 re YUCK: Yeah---yuck is right about all the squicky stuff (open butt-scratching, nose-picking inn front of someone else, etc.) out there. Some things are best left kept private or not at all.
64
Tick, tick, tick......
65
re @10 DonnyKlicious, @53 ciods, et.al: I know this is from last week (sorry, Dan and everybody), but---now I can't find Page 2 from Savage Love (Get Out), either. Unless last week's SL is now closed and not accepting any more comments.
Moving right along.....?
66
Entity @26: I enjoyed your initial, existentialist post @16 ;)
My advice was not "he needs to stop doing it," but "she needs to understand why it bothers her, ask why he does it, and if she can get her head round his reasoning, see if she can't learn to like it too."
But generally, if something bothers a person, being a considerate lover does entail not doing that thing. If said thing is prerequisite to one's own enjoyment, either reserve it for situations that don't involve the partner (ie when he's masturbating), or accept that you are incompatible and break up. Don't force a turn-off on a partner.

John @28: "I get the sense that YUCK finds semen and vaginal fluids gross in general"

Bingo. She also says "I've been with more than a few dudes, so I obviously understand that a woman eating their come is a common turn-on." For them; not for her. She seems completely baffled by the concept of sex fluids being a fun part of sex.

Kevin @37: I think she needs to consider both in weighing whether this is something she can get over.

Griz @43: Thrusting into my mouth and gagging me is, for me as well, a great way to not get any more blowjobs. Some people do like that sort of thing, though. I'm happy to swallow, when that situation, erm, arises, not just because that seems to be most recipients' preference, but because otherwise it goes all over everywhere, including such inconvenient places like in my eyes and in my hair. If you swallow, you don't need to clean up afterwards. (The taste ain't great, but it only lasts less than a minute. Keep some fruit juice close by!)

Agony @55: Table manners! LOL.
67
LW1 don't know if you'll see this but hope you do. Lost one of my balls as a teenager and was afraid to have sex again until 24. I lost six whole years due to my own insecurities. A good therapist smacked me upside the head (psychologically) and, long story short, got me wcive again. A couple guys I dated were turned off by it, one (strangely) found it interesting but most didn't care. When you get intimate with someone your mind goes to a good place and you're thinking much more about getting of and them getting off than you are about some unusual thing on their body (unless they have a gross hygiene problem). I've been with the same guy now for 10 years and it's not an issue. Put yourself out there. Some people won't find you attractive, possibly even many, but some will.
68
Just because this is the kind of guy I am, I'll set it up for someone else... :-)
69
@67 and everyone else who left comments for LW1, thanks. That's me, and the advice is helpful. I've been making a few changes since I sent that letter in, notably I've stopped drinking soda and I've been getting more exercise. Upon re-reading what I sent in I wanted to add a couple things for context.

First of all, I do have positive traits, I'm a tremendously talented writer and despite my physical shortcomings, I am actually a pretty handsome dude. I'm nerdy as hell, but it doesn't define me and even if it did, my life is full of examples of nerds who are getting it on the reg, so I'm not hung up about that or anything. I'm well aware that even being a gentleman of gravity isn't a total dealbreaker. I mean I've been this weight my entire adult life, and I have had opportunities before, just never success.

All that said, yeah, I'm still very much working through a lot. I lost a whole lot of muscle mass during my cancer fight so exercise has been difficult to do. Still, I'm getting back out there, slowly. I'm not gonna go hire a sex worker or anything, not right away at least. I've got nothing against it, I just wanna get right with myself before I take such a step, and who knows, perhaps I'll have tripped and fallen headfirst into some pussy by then.

In any case I wanted to thank you all for your advice and words of encouragement. Even if my asshole brain keeps me isolated sometimes (my disability is a real motherfucker of a circadian rhythm disorder, leaves my sleep irregular at best, half the time I'm awake no one else in the time zone is) it makes a huge difference knowing people are out there rooting for me.
70
@69: magicisworking, thanks for writing in. There were a whole lot of positive, encouraging, and possibly helpful comments when your letter was the Savage Love Letter of The Day, so if you didn't read that comment thread, you should go back and read it.
It sounds like you're on a good path, and I hope you write back sometime down the road and let us know that things worked out well for you.
71
Beautiful set up, Donny, and the LW benefited. @69 already falling headfirst into metaphorical pussy - hardly satisfying but still fortuitous. Good for you giving up the soda. Years ago (late teens even) I stopped drinking anything regularly other than water, black tea/coffee and alcoholic beverages. No juice or sodas or sports drinks or smoothies or dessert coffee Starbucks things or milk, etc. It's amazing the number of calories you can eliminate just by getting this crap out of your diet. I haven't had a cavity since then either and I had several in my teens before that. Best of luck.
72
Oh hey, I got the sex number comment, nice! Didn't even notice at first.
73
@17 some people assume that, if they aren't the focus, it's because someone else is narcissistic.
74
Aunt Zelda, sent you something re movies the other day.
75
Re: YUCK

You don't need sex-negative parents to get started doing that as a teen, sleeping nude and not wanting to get out of bed and dig through the laundry is enough.

Re: WORM

Dan, she's sort of right. Look at your husband, there's a faggot and he is yours. I like responding to stupid comments at also make the your/you're error by taking them as written, you get to insult the twit twice for the price of one.
76
magic - you can't possibly be the only one in the world who has the same or similar disability as you do. Why not date w/in the disability if that's limiting your prospects? Example -my sleep cycle constantly shifts - I hang out w/ other people in the middle of what should be my sleep time or just use the areas of overlap. Like people w/ jobs where they travel/are constantly jetlagged do, 'cept w/o the inconvenience of travel. Sacrificing sleep isn't necc a problem if the benefit is good enough or necessary enough (if it precipitates physical or mental disorders, yes, problem, see a doc), if you have friends that's evidence you can handle social interaction w/ your disability, relationship not any different (if you don't have friends, shrink is #1 priority, will help game plan this out w/ you). People date and marry one working day shift, one night. I assume you've done the usual medical chores - psych screen and CBT for sleep, sleep studies multiple times, orange filters in the right wavelength for screens (or wearing goggles at night), maybe even trying split sleep or elimination of artificial light (even less fun than it sounds!) aka camping to reset, etc and come up w/ nothing. Maybe you're lucky enough to have a clear brain scan or genetic diagnosis so you can skip all that and just go straight to learning the workarounds. Chronic insomnia/extreme owls are not rare (owls are 1/5 of population). You can date w/in that group if that helps.
77
MagicSwordKing - Thanks for writing in, and congrats on the magic number! There were lots more comments for you on the SLLOTD thread, which is here in case you missed it:
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/06/…

Good luck to you!
78
Re: Yuck
I used to see a sex worker who was pretty amazing. She would try all kinds of different things during our times together. She saw the hour we had as a sort of "creative-energy time", she called it.
Some of the time she would get aroused and I would help her reach climax.
One time we shared a bubble bath.
One time after she gave me a blow job she beckoned me close and then planted a deep French kiss on me but during the kiss injected my own cum into my mouth and insisted I swallow it.
It was unnerving, unexpected, and I was very conflicted about the experience, but amazed that she would have thought of doing this. I had never even read of this practice let alone expected to be it's subject.
She has passed since those days, but I still wish we had talked about that incident more.
79
@LW 1: Been there. Done this. Got better.

I'll skip my own tale of sadness and self-sabotage (unless you really insist, but misery is not a race, no need to one-up one another here). Just here to tell you that Dan is right on the money, dude in #61 is even more correct, and you can throw in Louis C.K.'s "on dating"-stand-up routine into the mix (youtube/Netflix. For extra hilarity and good stories about bouncing back from dark places you may want to add some Christopher Titus:).

For starters, spend your next vacation travelling solo to some far-off place. Do some interesting stuff. Socialize as much as you can handle. Stop obsessing about getting laid. Stop obsessing about NOT getting laid. The best advice to pick up anyone is: be interesting, relax... and always be ready to walk away and not to give a damn.

Your past experiences and fears are less and less realistic, because you are not 20 anymore, and so aren't your potential partners. Things which were valid criteria for the choice of mates back then are getting more and more unimportant, and downright silly sometimes (no, that face like a boysband singer won't cut it anymore, bro). Other things take their place. focus on them. Keep your own game sharp, get your shit together, and you'll be good and dandy in no time. OK, maybe not "in no time", because it takes some work, but ther are some good times ahead.
80
sb53 @78: That is called "snowballing." It's a thing. (This should clarify my post @14 for those Savage Love readers who were similarly unaware of this act.)
81
@79 extremely good point re age/maturity of partners now vs younger. Makes a big difference. Lots of things once thought important won't be anymore and who you are as a person counts a lot more. Also, lw, you can be totally inept at going down on women at first, not injuring someone is ideal (but hey, just don't do it twice, and make sure they feel comfortable enough to tell you), enthusiasm is critical and I very much imagine not a problem for you but taking the time to learn what that specific person wants, asking them what they like and really paying attention to their response -approaching the whole thing as a blank slate isn't really as much as a liability as you think, if it even is one at all. An openly inexperienced but curious and into it guy who not only asks for but eagerly accepts input is so much better than an experienced guy who thinks he knows what he's doing but is wrong, or isn't into it, or doesn't try. That guy is so much worse and so much more common. I'll take a guy who knows nothing but is teachable any day of the year. since we can't see down there, truly I could not tell you what works but you could surely tell by my response and encouragement and maybe afterwards feedback (during if able to speak). Approaching it as a scientific experiment w each new partner is kinda fun, and man, even experienced partners can learn a LOT this way. Even about themselves!
82
Dan, your a funny guy... (evidenced by worm...)
83
For our gentleman That Virgin: I find it hard to believe that at least one of your doctors hasn't brought this stuff up, but in case they haven't, talk to your doctor! If you're worried about only having one ball, there are testicular prosthetics and I bet it's a piece of cake to pop one of those bad boys in there. And a plastic surgeon or urologist with the right experience might be able to offer you some reconstructive procedure to deal with scar tissue or other deformities left from treatment. I wish you all the best. Love, a med student and aspiring oncologist
84
@no @76
>maybe even trying split sleep or elimination of artificial light (even less fun than it sounds!)

I eliminated all artificial lights past dusk (including screens), just for the hell of it--an experiment--and I totally love it. Wake up feeling great early each morning. I will probably only do it seasonally, since winter days are so short, but for my money, it was worth it (and not no fun after the first three or four days of adjustment).
85
@69 magicswordking (LW1): Thank you and bless you for writing in and joining us! So many of us are rooting for you--I sure am. Congrats, too, on hitting the magic number. I'm confident that this is a sign of oncoming changes for the better in your life. Wishing you all the very best.
86
@66 BiDanFan: Gagging is definitely a deal breaker for me, too, and particularly why I have never liked or trusted dentists very much.
@68 DonnyKlicious: Thank you for so gallantly helping bestow a fitting honor upon LW1, magicswordking, joining us. Another reason why I backed off at @65 when nobody else was commenting at the moment--I was blessed with the same honor last week and felt someone else should hit the lucky number this time. Great for the "69" Award to go to LW1!
@74 CMDwannabe: I need to check my emails! Thanks!
87
@86 (re @66): It probably didn't help that both my ugly stepsisters Driscilla and Anastacia, Dear were dental hygienists. Eeeesh!
88
Whaaa-at?!? We're only at 86 comments! Why aren't my pasts showing up?
Dan? Anybody?.............wtf???
89
@88: Um.....o-o-o-kay. Never mind...I just didn't see them for a minute.
90
@88: "Pasts"? Good grief! I meant posts. *sigh* And I haven't had a drop of alcohol in the last 2 days. Movie night after LogicProX studies.
91
No @81: Very good advice about asking for cunnilingus training. This goes for any sex acts and does not apply only to the inexperienced! I would suggest (no bias here, no siree) that Virgin would get better training from older women, just because it takes us years of experience to learn what it is we like (due to, as you say, not being able to see what's happening) and to gain the confidence to be able to ask for it without fear of crushing a guy's studly ego.

Griz: Yes, sometimes the posts don't show up for a while. That's how we often end up with double posts and embarrassed posters.
92
Virgin - I have to disagree with Dan, I recommend self-education before further attempts, to undo any porn education. I'm sure there are hookers who could give him some good advice on sex technique. But I think it's important that he take some initiative to learn about mutual pleasure based sex and healthy relationships first. Scarleteen is a great resource. Even makelovenotporn.com might help. Otherwise yes, a sex worker could definitely help with first time jitters and erection anxiety, if you can find a kind one you can afford who isn't trafficked or jail bait.

Next.. are you inviting rude women to bed, or are you doing something, like frantically jacking off if you go soft with a woman, that might invite rudeness? It's important to learn from your mistakes. Either better judgement in women, or better communication with sex (if you go soft, keep attempting partnered activities just try to guide each other verbally if you can.. or suggest a break to get a drink and reengage. That's how I deal with it when I'm getting out of the mood at least.)

Friends are good. Women friends are the first step to a romantic relationship with a woman. The next step is learning how to get a woman off well so she wants to have sex with you more than once.

YUCK - The weirdest thing about your letter is that you don't want to talk to your boyfriend about your feelings. That is something to work on; either getting comfortable sharing your preferences, or choosing a partner it feels safe to share your preferences with. It is good to be worried that you not shame him for his preference of spooge licking either, try to keep to "I" statements; "I'd really appreciate if you could only lick up your spooge in private, I'm a bit squicked by it, I hope that's not a big ask for you?" instead of "You're gross when you lick your spooge". Whatever you like is perfectly fine, you sound like a level headed person. A caring partner will show they care about your preferences too, just as you are caring that he has a good time. And consider his interest in your request: he probably wants a turned on partner instead of a repulsed but polite partner.
93
To the sex negative shamers this week:
Why don't you enjoy going down on your woman just as much or more when her cooch is bleeding? Vaginas and period blood go together just as often as penises and semen. Why would you let a little harmless period blood hold you back from giving a woman an awesome oral orgasm? If period blood squicks you out as much as semen squicks this woman out, maybe you're the crazy freak who should be ashamed of yourself and start munching monthly red wings unless you want the rest of women to call you a sex-negative vagina-negative wimp. Yay guilt tripping!

To the "semen is great" crowd. You might be remembering that semen is a byproduct of male orgasm, and men tend to think it's pretty great once they start producing semen with their own orgasm. But maybe you forget, it can also get women pregnant. So women tend to think it's kinda scary once they are able to get pregnant. I don't see any other reason it's much different than blood, spit, sweat, snot, or otherwise harmless, sticky, healthy-to-lick-up-unless-they-are-infected body fluids. Still, children are taught to clean their body fluids up, and not eat their boogers in front of others, so I think YUCK has more of a precendent to ask her boyfriend (politely) to refrain from licking up his spooge when she's around.
94
@91 " that Virgin would get better training from older women, just because it takes us years of experience to learn what it is we like (due to, as you say, not being able to see what's happening) and to gain the confidence to be able to ask for it without fear of crushing a guy's studly ego. "

Seconded on the older women thing (personal bias? sure. You get a younger woman, have her watch Wonder Woman right beforehand and I think she'd do just fine), I still don't know what's happening and never will (test your own knowledge by attempting it yourself sometime and feel sudden acute sympathy w/ that first bf who looked so intimidated), and yes to the fear of ego crushing - LW, make sure you address and get rid of her concern about your ego, demonstrate it by showing you're not bothered by input and you will be better than most quite quickly!

95
@93 "Why don't you enjoy going down on your woman just as much or more when her cooch is bleeding?"

Chunks. For starters. I could go on, but I don't wish to discourage the enthusiasts.

MUCH appreciated but not required gentlemen. There are times when even I would hesitate, and it's mine. That said, period blood plus semen tastes like fine steak, so I'd recommend the combo far more than either ingredient separately (Surf and Turf? Can we get Dan to name this?)????

I do however love the idea of requiring any guy who is even mildly requesting a gf eat his cum that he eat her out on the rag as GGG reciprocity. Nothing fixes cramps like orgasm. Maybe even the LW could get behind that exchange (slightly altered - you can eat that in my sight if you eat this too. Disgust all around? Fun times.).

Curious - what's the lesbian community's take on red wingin' it?
96
@93 "I don't see any other reason it's much different than blood, spit, sweat, snot, or otherwise harmless, sticky, healthy-to-lick-up-unless-they-are-infected body fluids."

Because it is the most, let's say acquired, taste of all of those. You have to learn to love it. No foods flavored like it for a reason. Ok, ok, exception: https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Harvest-c… (the other items that came up were also ??? "Marvoll Unisex Lycra Fullbody Penis Costume Without Hood for Kids and Adults", "Putin Na Medvede (Putin On Bear) - Action Figure / Decorative Statue of Vladimir $89.99" and "Semenology - The Semen Bartender's Handbook" which just makes more sense. Aromatic bitters indeed.). But no semen syrup at Starbucks. We hope.
97
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98
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99
@93 - I do think guys should offer. But I also think it is reasonable to request accommodations, ala

https://www.me-luna.eu/MeLuna-menstrualc…

or as available in actual civilizations, the sex tampon

https://www.me-luna.eu/epages/63898218.s…

And a quick wipe of the undercarriage is all you really need. For those blessed w/ the 3 tablespoons or less that is average, just go for it. You keep the fluid exchange amounts equal, that's fair, right guys?
100
The LW's obvious solution for her protein deprived boyfriend is to get in there and eat it herself before he gets a chance. Everyone's happy and her reflexes improve as does the shininess of her hair.
101
@91 BiDanFan: Oh, shit. Now I've been haunted by my pasts---in more ways than one.