Comments

1
Dan, you fucked up.

Yes, she has to tell him about the cheating, and then she has to face the consequences -- namely, that he'll almost certainly dump her.

Then she needs to figure out what her problem is. Hint: it's not that she can't be monogamous; it's that she can't seem to not screw over her partners.
2
she didn't necessarily fuck 14 guys. she said she's queer, and she fucked other "people". she's a cagey one, that.

if you love someone, set them free.
3
LW is CPOS, whose ideal situation is a partner who's into cuckolding, but her current partner isn't into this kink, and has made that clear. However, he is open to the idea of swinging together and/or other open relationship models, but rather than take her boyfriend up on his willingness for some degree of openness, LW decides this could be damaging to his self-esteem, and goes right on being a CPOS.

That is an amazingly self-serving course of action which suggests that LW doesn't want an honest open relationship, she enjoys cheating and/or wants a cuckolding relationship, and is willing to get one dishonestly if she cannot find one openly. Candidly, I suspect that LW enjoys eviscerating her partners' self-esteem.

LW stop being a CPOS. Show some modicum of decency and dump your boyfriend, then go out and find a boyfriend with complementary kinks.
4
I live in NZ and yes the population is small but not that small. There are plenty of people in open relationships here and I have dated a couple cucks and I'm 42yr old woman with 2 kids. Sounds to me like you're using NZ as an excuse to be an arsehole. Stop it, it's embarrassing!
5
LW is an asshole. She should come clean about the serious breach of trust, and use that to pull the plug on this relationship.
Hopefully she can start over with someone from a place of honesty, and hopefully he will recover from the blow to his self esteem.
6
@1 - I disagree. "Coming clean" is almost always for the benefit of the transgressor, and she describes a man that might be absolutely wrecked to know this. She should set him free in a way that minimizes the likelihood he'll never trust a partner again.

Also, can we all just repeat: there's nothing wrong with being single. Like 75% of LW's—Dear Dan, can I have permission to... YES, YES YOU CAN, but for the love of God have you considered just being single first?
7
Anemone @ 4
Don’t take it too personally, it seems like names and geographies are often edited in here regardless of the region-specific sites.

I think LW is struggling with the traditional monogamous relationship framework because this is the expected, counted for, and way more acceptable form of relationship in “New Zealand” and beyond.
It may not be the perfect analogy, but she should “come out” and live the type of relationship/s she wants despite the possible stigmas and other difficulties. I think she should certainly tell her bf the relationship/s she wants to have, though can delay the 14 guys for if and when.
And she should act soon before she feels obligated to marry the guy, have children, and so on.
It is my personal experience that vows to “stop this behavior once …” will only work for a short, limited time.
8
Dear CUCKEDHIM,
Your boyfriend deserves better and you need something different. Break up with him gently, take the time to figure yourself out, and make sure that your next relationship is an open one.
9
@2 is this two-women-cant-fuck's little cousin?

Anyways, her problem isn't with cheating, it's with honesty. She's essentially leading a double life.
Probably the best resolution for everyone is for her to proactively end things, with some lame excuse ("My father converted to Islam and no he says I can't be with heathens"). He'll be upset that he got dick-pulled by some flighty woman, but at least he won't spend the time between now and his next STD test scared shitless. It's the little things.
10
I'm not sure that finding someone into cuckolding is really what CUCKEDHIM wants. She says that's it. I think the thrill for her is the cheating, the power she feels. If he likes it, it's no good for her. (That's speculation. It's still what I think.) I recommend she go straight to breaking up with him, no conversation about opening up the relationship, no confessions about cheating or explanations about libido. Just keep it a simple "it's not you; it's me". Then stay single. Keep with the one night stands. There are plenty of men who would be glad to have no strings sex with her, maybe several times. Try that for a year, see if you're happy, and when you're not, get into therapy to get to the root of the problem.
11
LW _says_ cuckolding would be ideal then quickly dismisses it as too hard despite dan easier finding groups, couples, chats in NZ.

Maybe the LW just likes the whole deception, being a jerks part of it? Maybe if it were all honest and out in the open she just wouldn't get that same thrill?
12
LW's SO needs to DTMFA for being an irredeemable CPOS. Hopefully he'll find this article and figure it out.
13
I cannot and will not disagree with everyone who is advocating that the LW find a way to live honestly. There is such a thing however as too honest. I don't think the LW should tell the boyfriend about the 14 one night stands she's had during their relationship. Good god, he doesn't need to know about that shit. Let him go gently, not with 14 bullets in the face.

Making a stab at going deeper... some people have a need for intense experiences. It sounds to me like the LW is one of them. I know I am. I've gotten that intensity in different and more or less healthy ways at different times in my life. It's easy to get into a rhythm of intensity that is harmful to the people in your life, yourself or both. It might not always have to be sex that gives you the intensity you crave.
14
Really Dan, stuff all those people down the memory hole, I don't think so. What would be the number she'd reach before you'd say she's got to come clean? NZ is only a small country after all, of course she could pop over to Australia when she runs out.
15
Fichu @10, good solutions. Yes, she ends it now without mentioning her escapades. She's ripped the poor guy off enough.
16
It's painfully obvious that LW is the insecure one. Half the letter sounds like projection. The pattern of unstable relationships, risk taking, compulsive lying and deep insecurity leads me to believe we have a borderline on our hands and not someone struggling with old patriarchal relationship models. If LW wants to stop being an asshole, she should DTMFA herself and ghost the ex (for his sake) then invest in some serious counseling.
17
Sportlandia @9 re “her problem isn't with cheating, it's with honesty.”
On a different thread and just four hours earlier you wrote: “@bidanfan since when are we entitled to honesty? Where did you grow up, Happyville USA?
http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/10/… @ 84

That said, I liked “My father converted to Islam” and “got dick-pulled by some flighty woman.”

18
OMFG. To be fair, it's a Monday night and I'm tired and two glasses of wine in, and while I read the letter, I have not yet read Dan's response nor any other comments b/c LW makes me want to pull out my hair and scream. I'm so over entitlement and dishonesty. NO- you don't get to take away all your partner's agency and cheat on him repeatedly because it makes things easier for you. That is obnoxious and insensitive and unethical to the point of being psychopathic, shit like this pisses me off so much.

But a more minor point that I think might get to the root of things to help the LW: there is a difference between being in an open relationship and being into cuckolding, and the LW seems to conflate the two in a bizarre way. There are plenty of people out there who are happy to have committed emotional and sexual relationships with one partner who are likewise fine with that partner having NSA encounters with other people. So you can get the thrill of the chase without lying to your partner repeatedly. Your current partner might even be into that (sounds like no) but you wouldn't know because you've been lying to him all along, and by this point, he should dump you and you should take some time to seriously reflect on how little you value other people.

BTW there is nothing wrong with being into the thrill of the chase and losing interest thereafter- if you can figure out how to do this without lying to your partner (a DADT thing would probably work well for you). But you do not get to compromise his bodily autonomy without his consent and carry on in a situation in which he is making life choices with incomplete info because you are a lying coward. Figure out if you are lying because of shame or because of cowardice or because the thing you are into is controling and manipulating and lying to your partner.
19
Philosophy, I am one of those people too, and as such I'm sympathetic. Like the LW, I'm also the sort of person that on the outside appears perfectly content with unextreme situations most of the time (she has been in a relationship now for this many years with the apparently believable presentation that it's monogamous). I can relate. The vast majority of time I'm a pretty boring person, but a few times a year I find myself thinking "I can't fucking believe that I'm doing this..." and it's the combo of fear and transgression and risk and thrill and adrenaline and arrogance that makes it all work out. Like you, this is not always sexual -(or even most of the time recently).

And obviously the LW is into that or else she wouldn't keep focusing on cuckolding- the key there being that the partner knows and supposedly disapproves (while actually enjoying or approving)- she doesn't go on about the partner being OK with a DADT NSA thing and she's obviously bragging in parts of her letter. So yes, I think you hit a nail on the head.

That said, what an ethical person who doesn't actually get off on destroying another person's emotional (or even physical/practical) life does is figure out how to get their kicks without stomping on others. Which is why I said she needs to figure out what it is that is REALLY getting her off. The thrill of the chase is part of it, sure. But is that it? Because if so, then she's just being a coward about not telling her man or finding one that could accommodate. If it's really just about novelty and the thrill of the chase, then this is not such a unique thing to accommodate- she's just looking for a primary partner that is cool with NSA stuff on the side- it could be someone with a cuckolding fetish or someone that is poly or someone that is fine with a DADT thing, in any case there is a wide variety of open men who are down for that. She's not telling him, why? She's not asking for what she wants, why? It could just be that she's a coward or that she's entitled. I suspect it's more than that, but that's because I tend to be generous to people's motivations because cowardice pisses me off. She could be the sort of person that gets off on thrills and transgressions and she just needs some guidance for how to do that ethically, but then that doesn't excuse the lying all this time. Or she could be the sort of person that gets off on controlling and manipulating others because she feels entitled to whatever the fuck she wants which is what it sounds like.

I know we are all supposedly living in a world in which cheating like this isn't any big deal, but I honestly don't know how an empathetic human who loves someone could spend daily life going through the joys and pains with that person and then lie to them- not once about a fuckup here or there- but repeatedly over years and years- every few weeks about something that affects the person you love's life, health, mental well-being, etc. Fuck people like that, seriously.
20
Dan's response was really good. Now that I've read it, I feel happy and order in the world has been restored, and I'm three glasses of wine in. Sorry if I sound sanctimonious as I'm a horribly flawed person too, it just so happens that dishonesty in sexual affairs is not one of them and so it really bothers me in others. It's just not that hard to say what you want and find it, (especially when it's a woman wanting an open relationship with a man). CMD's advice is also really good - please don't settle down and have children since things have been easy for you under lies so far. It will come to the surface eventually and you will damage many people. Fichu too +1.
21
You "think" you might be okay with him fucking around on you openly? And he says he isn't really into the cuckolding thing but would be okay with swinging -- and your response to that wasn't to take him up on it, but to back off that idea, so he stays nicely monogamous on you the whole time you continue to fuck around behind his back?

It's crystal clear why she wants cuckolding to be her solution of choice: it's because she can't handle what she's been dishing out. She can't handle the idea of her guy having sex with others. She wants a cuckold because they don't have permission to have sex with anyone other than the person cheating on them. She gets to fuck around and he gets to lump it (supposedly getting off on lumping it, but still), and he doesn't get to fuck around, so she doesn't have to lump it. And she theoretically wouldn't have to face the risk of being kicked to the curb for cheating by an angry boyfriend, just like how she's avoiding risking it by keeping him in the dark now.

That isn't "for simplicity's sake," it's pure (I almost said "unadulterated") selfish hypocrisy.
22
Huh, a situation in which everyone in the comments section - and Dan - agrees. You're being a selfish asshole, LW - don't try and blame this on a fetish. You want a boyfriend that is 100% physically and emotionally devoted to you, while you get to sneak around behind his back and screw whoever you want without any care for his feelings. Stop getting into monogamous relationships if you're not going to be monogamous.
23
Max @2: I caught that one too. Statistically, at least a couple of a self-described queer female's other partners are probably female. Or not. In practice, fewer women are into one-night stands, and CUCKEDHIM does say "if I tell him that I want to fuck other guys too won’t that make him feel inadequate?"
Perhaps it's only men that she feels morally OK with using for cheap sex.

CMD @17: Not sure I needed a link to Sporty's latest diatribe. Sportlandia, you're clearly a troubled individual. I hope you get the help you need; we armchair analysts here at SLOG are obviously not helping to improve your outlook towards relationships. In the meantime perhaps you should find a new outlet for your bile.

As for CUCKEDHIM, I dunno what to say. If she wants to have a string of one-night stands, that seems incompatible with having a relationship that is not openly open. The only thing that prevents me from saying she should just stay single is her high sex drive. Has she thought about becoming a sex worker? Or getting one of those sex robots? I for one am looking forward to the possibility, once suitable male models come onto the market.
24
Emma Liz 18-- Thanks for pointing out the weird conflating of cuckolding and an open relationship. Now I'm seeing other disconnects too.

She says she likes the thrill of the chase but struggles to maintain a lasting relationship. Then she names all the ways she doesn't want a lasting relationship. Maybe the thing to tell CUCKEDHIM is that it's okay not to be in a committed relationship.

She says she has a high libido and has trouble getting enough sex, but she's female and likes multiple partners. How is a chase even necessary? Any dating ap, any bar, hell, any street corner. Just make it clear you want sex with a man, and the men will show up. What sort of chase does she like? The one where she gets the guy to express interest that's MORE than just sex, one where love is mentioned, and then she fucks and discards them? That's a wild guess. I really don't know.

She says her current boyfriend won't make eye-contact during sex so she doesn't feel connected with him. I can't begin to figure out what she's talking about with that one. But she is in a pretty good relationship with him. Huh?

She's doing all these things to hurt the ego of the man she's in a relationship with, a man she doesn't know well enough to know how he would react if she brought up her sexual desires, except that she does have a pretty good idea. Then she brings up what would be "morally sound."

Then she numbers some irrelevant questions at the end when the real question is stated at the beginning: How do I stop being an asshole?

No wonder the comments are all over the map.
25
"It might not always have to be sex that gives you the intensity you crave." Yes, so much. I wonder if LW would be helped by finding another outlet that allows her to 'chase'. Maybe rock climbing, or martial arts, or hustling/salesmanship? All of them involve aspects of reaching new peaks.

"Half the letter sounds like projection." I agree entirely.

The way I see it, she's had 14 'successful' relationships in the last three years and one that she's been consistently dishonest in. I presume she was honest with the one-night stands. I agree with the commenters prescribing simple serial dating. That seems to work fine for her (14 times out of 15). Maybe with a roommate or companionate relationship to go home to?

Also, I know this is 2017 and we're all futuristic and stuff, but she really needs to be getting regular screening for STDs and using protection if she's frisking around so much. There's no explicit reason to think she isn't, but someone who lies all the time to her main partner might do the same to all the one-night stands. Or to herself, about the risks. Honesty is tough to prove in a short-term relationship.
26
Does CUCKEDHIM want to be with her current partner or not? Does she care for him, and does he care for her? There's some evidence she cares for him in her not wanting to damage his self-esteem by being blatant in opening the relationship up--or in telling him about all the people she cheated on him with. Commenters have seen an element of her being self-serving in this--and sure it's there--but I would also think that it shows she does care, too, in some way.

I would think first she has to think whether he's the guy she wants to have an 'anchor' relationship with, and then move to being honest about chasing, swinging, having sex with multiple people.

I like Dan's advice about being honest about her own needs, rather than 'fessing first over past wrongdoing. If he's going to say 'no' to her giving herself to the thrill of the chase every three months or so, why expose him to the pain or shame of having been unwillingly cuckolded?
27
Fichu @24: "She says she has a high libido and has trouble getting enough sex, but she's female and likes multiple partners. How is a chase even necessary? Any dating ap, any bar, hell, any street corner. Just make it clear you want sex with a man, and the men will show up."

Yeah -- ugly men. Asshole men. Men with nothing in common. Men you don't fancy. Meeting a man you DO fancy is a lot harder, and does involve at least some some element of pursuit. 14 men in three years may sound like a lot, but 14 men in three years sounds to me like she has at least some level of pickiness, as most of us do, whether we're looking for partners to keep or only to keep in the "wank bank." My guess is she's going only for "quality" men, however she defines "quality," as these guys are conquests and she views sleeping with them as somewhat of an achievement. (Yes, I'm projecting here.)
28
27-BiDan-- You may very well be right that the thrill for her is having sex with a certain sort of man. My point is that the letter is a mash of confusion, and any sense in it is something we've all had to read into it based on our own experience, not necessarily hers. You're guessing. I'm guessing. More importantly, SHE'S guessing. Hard to give sensible advice under the circumstances.
29
@17 fair nuff, but different meanings of the same word. LW's failure of honesty is her failure to live out her own desires. I think the bf is better off not knowing the truth
30
@21 the crazy thing is, cuck men aren't THAT rare. We've all got a friend who's into it. I'm in agreement, she doesn't really want a cuck, she just wants to get hers and not worry about anything else. In a weird way I kind of respect it. I don't think she's into the active humiliation aspect of cucking. She basically wants a guy that wants to fuck her a bunch and doesn't mind if other guys also fuck her a bunch, like she was Hugh Heffner or something. Those guys are out there, but I think the traditional dating market is a low-efficiency way to find them.
31
The LW says she always responds positively when her bf seeks sex. Does she not initiate sex? That would jar with 'the thrill of the chase'--unless this is the thrill of being chased. Maybe she has a need to be sought out.

The bf's apparently avoiding eye contact during sex has a number of simple explanations. One would be his just being in a position (some forms of missionary position, I guess) where he gets a better frictional contact by holding his head and body lower.
32
Another possibility for the eye contact is that he's got his fantasies running in his head and eye contact ruins that.

Bottom line, if you don't like sex with your partner, and you don't treat him well, why are you with him?
33
First she hasn't slept with 14 people, she has fucked 14 people (15 if you include her partner who she has fucked over) She doesn't appear to have any problem using the word fuck or that she is incapable of not cheating. So why does she need to use a euphemism?
34
Anemone @4 I'm curious, is your partner knowingly a cuck
35
CMDwannabee @7 I would question the paternity of any children she has given her inability to not cheat. I also hope she is getting checked regularly for STIs. Finding out he has chlamydia would be a hell of a way to find out she's cheated on him (e.g. the movie The Easy A)
36
Anyone - Does being unable not to cheat make someone a pathological liar or does it require someone to be a pathological liar (chicken versus egg conundrum)?
37
Skeptic @35: Another reason this guy needs to know his partner isn't monogamous is the fact that condoms do not prevent all STIs. You can use them religiously and still catch herpes or genital warts. He needs to know he's at risk.
38
@34: Her use of “cuck” in the traditional (not White Nationalist) fetish sense implies that they are.
39
She needn't limit herself to cucks when she is inevitably back on the market.

He can be poly or into swinging, and cool with her being the same. He can be low-libido, but open to her fooling around (such guys might be cucks, but not necessarily). He might find the 'queer' thing exciting--don't ask don't tell if she fucks guys, but sharing all the juicy details when she hooks up with a woman or non-binary.

Open, honest sluts can find a happy relationship with cuckolds, but she has non-cuckold options too.
40
@39: It sounds like she wants him to be monogamous, which limits her prospects significantly.
41
Also @34, she doesn't mention having a partner and says she has dated cucks, so I don't know what you are asking. @36 I don't think it's an either/or. If someone is a pathological liar, they will probably lie about all sorts of things in their relationships including cheating. But if someone is not a pathological liar and still unable to not cheat, there are plenty of honest ways to handle that situation. So I think aside from practical specific extenuating circumstances (tied to someone in a sexless marriage for real reasons because life is mess for example), then if someone is cheating and lying about it just because they want to have their cake and eat it too, then they are both being unethical with someone's emotions and physical health as well as just being cowardly and selfish.
42
If someone wrote to Dan saying their partner had been pretending to be monogamous, but had secretly fucked 14 other people, and they were just finding out about it (through a confession or other sources), I can't imagine Dan would see the cheater as worth more than a DTMFA. My understanding of the memory hole one stuffs a one-night stand/brief affair down is that it's meant for a brief event or solitary lapse in judgement. Stuffing an event down it one, two, five, ten, and fourteen times? You'd need a licensed plumber to unclog that drain.

The LW's partner deserves someone better who doesn't lie and violate trust regularly. Do your partner a favor and impeach yourself as their partner. They deserve way better than what you've justified doing for three years.
43
@41: “Also @34, she doesn't mention having a partner and says she has dated cucks, so I don't know what you are asking.”

Yeah, doesn’t seem a pertinent response or invite any questions. They were suggesting that they had a pool of respondents or happened upon a few that met that criteria and were worth dating, so the initial excuse that people who meet the criteria for consensual nonmonogamy aren’t present where the LW lives is bogus. The LW isn’t looking for someone to know and participate in their affairs in any way.

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