LW, you said: "Had I known that he needed her in his life this badly, I would have taken some time to sit with my feelings and figure out where my discomfort with her was coming from and tried to move through it." That may or may not be the reason he continued to pursue her. I say this as someone who was pursued by someone in an open relationship, even though I personally was off-limits. In my case, I'm confident the issue was not that he needed me in his life so much that he found it tempting to violate his agreement. Rather, I believe the issue was that he simply did not respect his partner's boundaries. So whether it was me or anyone else on that restricted list, the list itself was meaningless to him. No idea if this is the case with your guy, but just throwing out an alternative you may not have considered.

Sorry, I was referring to LW UGHRS.

I think something is missing from the response to SCARED. She wants sex now, while looking for a long-term relationship, so telling her just hang in there you’ll find a guy to date eventually may be right, but cold comfort for an empty bed between now and then.

Perhaps one of these guys with whom she’s gone out on a date didn’t meet some long-term relationship criteria she has, but was attractive and nice. If so, SCARED might consider going out on a second date and broaching the offer of causal sex. Only SCARED knows how many dates it might take to be comfortable with a new sex partner, but if she need three or four dates, I’m betting one or more of her prospects would see her causally a few more times for an ongoing fuck buddy relationship.

Sheesh. What does it say about me that of all the great dealbreakers enumerated by DES, I find "abstemious" the greatest.

SCARED ~ This may or may not work for you, but do you have any male friends who you like and trust who you could consider for a "friends with benefits" situation? Speaking only for myself, if I had a female friend who came to me and said, "I'm having a tough time with dating and I just want to get in a few good, old-fashioned fuckings with no strings attached. Know anyone who might volunteer?" I guess I'd feel compelled to do the compassionate thing and offer my services. And I mean that not only as a horny guy who of course would love to get laid (just like you), but also as someone who genuinely would want to help someone if I could.

DES ~ What's your question? You're describing a female Trump, aside from the monogamous part. And WTF is "allocated in another temporal space continuum"? This sounds like a bad pitch for a Star Trek movie.

UGHRS ~ A) You say, "We need to have a serious discussion about your infidelity. AFTER we're done with that, if we're done with that we can have a second discussion about how I found out. We are not going to get distracted by blame shifting. We are going to deal with this honestly or we are done." B) I'm thinking boyfriend doesn't "love each other" quite as deeply as you think he does.

SCARED: Just to highlight something a lot of people are going to bring up (and a couple already have), "casual sex" does not have to automatically equate to seedy one-night stand. In fact, most people I've run into aren't comfortable with that sort of thing. Similarly, not all relationships need to be serious, boyfriend-girlfriend (or whatever pronouns) ones. Sometimes a close friend who you call when you need to scratch an itch is all you need.

I've seen a lot of people fall into the dichotomy of thinking that all sexual relationships fall into either seedy hookups or practically married relationships. That doesn't match the reality on the ground, though.

UGHRS: Two big questions. How long have you been in this relationship, and how many open relationships have you been in before?

You sound like you're beating yourself over violations of the Universal Poly Code. At best, this is something that earnest to the point of naive newbies do, where they think everything will work out if they follow a patchwork of various rules they pick up. At worst, they're a sign of dating a dickbag, where the rules happen to be whatever suits the dickbag's justifications. Both are things that people outgrow with a little experience, but these do sound like growing pain issues.

@5 I assumed that LW2 is jonesing for a fictional character. That would explain the idiotic letter.

I was kind of hoping someone would guess whichever fictional character LW2 thought they were being all clever about. I was mildly curious. Probably they were hoping so, too. Alas, they may retreat to their fanfiction unvalidated.

SCARED: Sending you big hugs, positrons and VW beeps. Abuse sucks; I have been there, too, and hate the assholes who made your life hell.
If you are looking into sexual relationships, I agree with DonnyKlicious, the Omnipotent Comment God (@5): first ask a male you know and trust, and, as Dan suggests, be honest.
@5 Omnipotent Comment God, DonnyKlicious: I loved your advice to SCARED, and your spot on comment to DES. Good grief, Charlie Brown! I can't imagine any women of sound mind being a Trumpzilla supporter, unless aliens scrambled her brains. WTF is right----"allocated in another temporal space continuum" (?!?) left me with quite an unattractive mental image of present-day William Shatner. Beam us up, Scotty!

I don't particularly have SCARED's history of deep trauma, but I do get off a lot more from deep-feelings-involved-sex than anything casual.

I will be the voice of dissent: a fuck buddy would take time and emotional energy you could spend looking for something you actually want, too.

Agree with Sublime and Donny re: SCARED and think Dan missed the mark here. She's horny and wants to fuck without waiting until she knows or trusts someone but her body won't cooperate in the moment- all that PTSD- so she's looking for strategies. Telling her to just hold on to her frustrations until she's in another relationship is just going to be frustrating.

I was going to offer similar advice as Donny, but since he's done that, I'll try a slightly different route for variety and ask about a sex worker. Reason being that it will give you total control as well as the openness to express exactly what you want / need without the same risk of vulnerability or the unexpected/unknown and without the requirement for reciprocation- could potentially give you the experience and release you want in the time being. On the other hand, it's still a stranger which might be a problem nonetheless- it depends on which aspects of the new casual partner make you uncomfortable. If it doesn't go well the first time you try, so long as you give the sex worker a heads up so he knows what's going on, you could try again later- maybe it takes you a couple sessions until you get into the groove and then you have a fuck buddy. Since you're paying for it, consider it a part of your therapy and self care! Also hiring a sex worker might be difficult depending on where you live so someone else will have to give advice there. BTW if this idea turns you off, let it go and don't force it- it's just a brainstorm.

Here's another brainstorm. You might also look into couples- there are women that advertise looking for another woman for her man or you could look meet people in a swinger party- in which case you could establish a friendly (nonsexual unless that's also what you want) relationship with the woman first. One of the things that I've liked about swinger scenes is the way sometimes women can vet the dudes first- the whole thing seems safer when other women are involved. This often works in the reverse so seek out the women who are actively involved in looking for partners for their men and be honest and wait until you establish a relationship with women who seem empathetic & receptive then go out with them together to talk about it. This might feel a little safer for you?

Good luck!

8 et al., I was thinking the fictional character might be Harley Quinn, which might make the LW the Joker, or Batman. But having the lungs of a 26y.o. nonsmoker are probably why she's so slow -- those are pretty heavy to be carrying around.

SCARED: Alcohol. There is a reason it's called "Dutch courage."
Another idea might be a sex worker. I don't know exactly why SCARED is freaking out at the idea of casual sex, but her use of the phrase "moving that quickly" suggests that perhaps she's afraid sex will lead to an insta-relationship, and an insta-bad-relationship at that, based on her past experiences? A sex worker will only stick around for the sex, so perhaps that's one way she could learn to separate the baggage from the physical act. She should definitely discuss with her therapist just why she gets so "panicked" at the thought of sex -- is it the physical or the emotional risk that worries her?

DES: You're a weirdo. I don't understand your letter, but as soon as you said "racist" the rest didn't matter. (Out)run her. And erm, maybe look outside the LARP scene for your next partner?

ChiTodd: Two good comments @6 and @7. Griz @10: "Beam me up, Scotty" -- LOL!

DC270 @12: How do you know a fuck buddy isn't "something she actually wants"? She says what she wants is "to get laid." Don't conflate your relationship preferences with hers. If she's struggling with lots of Issues, a superficial, friends-with-benefits arrangement might not just be OK for her, but better than a full-on relationship and all the baggage it entails.

Emma @13: Not that SCARED might not have a great experience with a couple (or the male half of a swinging couple), but sadly, my experience was the opposite. "Safer"? More like they ganged up on me to override my "no." Even if this doesn't happen, if she's fragile and the guy puts his pants on immediately after the act to go home to his wife, leaving her with no aftercare, that's not going to help her find casual sex less scary. It's an interesting idea, but I'd urge her to vet very, very carefully.

Dan said: " many or more are incapable of having impulsive one-night stands because they too have a history of trauma, or because they have other psychological, physical, or logistical issues that make one-night stands impossible."

He missed a major category. Many or more people are incapable of having impulsive one-night stands because they can't divorce the emotional aspect of sex with the act itself. They're like this without any history of abuse. For centuries this has been considered normal for women and there was something wrong with the opposite.

SCARED-- You don't need the abuse excuse. It's a horrible shame it happened, but now you're acting like your inability to have casual sex is another part of what's wrong with you in addition to other fallout from the abuse. It isn't! Plenty of people, I'm one of them, have no history of abuse and still need an emotional connection before having sex. I don't even lubricate if I don't feel comfortable with a guy.

Maybe you need a friends with benefits situation. I'd also suggest you need some patience, a vibrator or some other comfort with masturbating, and a source for non-sexual touch. Hug your friends, and get a professional legitimate massage.

You also need a source for dates and meeting people where the casual hook-up, the sex before friendship model isn't the norm. For that, I can't help you. Everywhere I go it would seem that dating has migrated to the extremes. There's either meeting someone at church where you're expected to wait until marriage, or there's meeting someone online where you're expected to fuck first and get to know each other after. I wish Dan had answered that question about where to find the sort of dating I remember where the assumption was that there was a fairly lengthy getting to know you period expected before sex.

DES--stop smoking. I think you meant tobacco--but whatever you meant, stop smoking.

@5. Donny. 'Historically and anthropologically' 'allocated' to another spacetime continuum? I think he means she's a Republican from a whitebread background. DES is one of those people for whom Republicans are a different species. This could be a great relationship for him, not least in its unsettling so many of his priors.

There's a possibility to me that SCARED wants casual sex in preference to a long-term relationship. Yes, she could be dating to 'find someone'; equally, sex with fewer strings might be what she wants right now, and what she reentered the scene to find. It could also represent something desired to her in the context of her personal history--something she supposes that people not traumatised, abused or raped can do and have, and that she hasn't before been able to do or have. But with her therapy, her healing and progressing with her issues, as well as the happy sex in her previous relationship, she may feel that happy-but-casual sex, sex as no big deal, is getting closer for her.

Sublime and ChiTodd provide excellent advice. I would encourage SCARED to take the lead more with men she likes and trusts. It is not shameful to ask for casual sex. But she shouldn't be too hard on herself if she's unable to do so: so many people have psychological, as well as moral, barriers preventing them; and Dan's advice was right too.

Fichu @17: Excellent point. Just as there's nothing wrong with today's SLLOTD writer's girlfriend for being vanilla, there's nothing wrong with a person who just doesn't enjoy one-night stands. It's not necessary to enjoy one-night stands to be sex-positive or sexually liberated. If SCARED's gut is telling her this is not something she wants, perhaps she should listen.

Harriet @18: Bwahaha! :D

DES: "I'm in love with Tomi Lehren - should I pursue her?"

I have no personal experience with PTSD or other trauma, but have talked with those who suffer from it. I think SCARED would like to be able to have one-night stands but is too anxious to follow through for two possible reasons: she doesn't want to put herself in a situation where she might have to say no but be pressured into sex, or she fears that she will over-react and relive being abused when the is no real reason.
I don't know where or how she is meeting her potential partners, but if there is any way for her to touch base with someone she trusts to get a recommendation through the grape vine or from someone they know in common, this might increase the feeling of safety and that might pave the way to fun.

@15 BiDanFan (re SCARED): I'm in a similar spot as SCARED is in that I, too, am in PTSD therapy over past physical and sexual trauma. I fit somewhere between uncomfortable and panicky (panicky at times because I'm still dealing with flashbacks) concerning the desire for sex. Over the past 17 years I have discovered that I really am not hurting without sex. It really wasn't that enjoyable for me, and fantasies instead work just fine otherwise. I wonder if SCARED is weighing similar thoughts in her letter to Dan as well as to her therapist.
Yeah--Donny's bad Star Trek episode analogy in his comment to DES got me laughing, too. Thanks, Donny!
@22 marilynsue: Your comment made me stop and rethink my earlier one a little in @10.
As an asexual, fantasy works best for me (Brad Pitt works wonders!). I feel @5 DonnyKlicious made a good suggestion to SCARED, provided she wants to become sexually active again. I agree with you, too. Re-entering the world of sex would be a hard choice for me. Taking things slowly and steadily and not rushing into anything is the best call overall.

I think SCARED is having garden-variety cold feet and low level anxiety. Why not aim for 3rd-date sex instead of first-date sex, before jumping into nsa sex with craigslist randos?

@26 Sportlandia: Bingo. The idea of (my) having casual sex, if at all with craigslist randos is where I join SCARED.

@9 Roseanne? I mean she checks a lot of the boxes and her new show has been making waves. But at the same she's not the typical fictional crush bait.

I'm open to other ideas.

SCARED... some of us have been broken in ways that don't allow us to enjoy pleasures that most others can. It sucks, but it is what it is. When you are damaged, there's often no easy way to get from here to there. Accept who you are right now and what you are capable of. Take baby steps. It seems to me like the most important thing for you is to have positive sexual experiences and to not have negative ones. That's going to require more caution than you want. Sexual frustration is going to be a consequence. Again, it is what it is.

Confidential to Yosemite: You have an admirer. Also, that young woman would like her lungs back.

I agree with the most common response to SCARED: a friend with benefits is the way to go. I know someone posted earlier (can't remember which number) that sometimes the FWB can take time away from dating, but I don't see the situation in the same way. The value of such relationships is spending time with a friend (sometimes having sex and sometimes hanging out and doing things one would do minus the benefits). Also, the friend will work at the speed SCARED wants or needs.

I honestly can't think of a single friend I have that I would turn down in this situation if she approached me with a story similar to SCARED's story. As long as I felt like the addition of benefits would not alter the friendship, I would be down. If I sensed that the friendship might end because she would feel guilty or bad about herself then I wouldn't want that to happen. The question is if SCARED feels comfortable sharing her story with male friends with whom she feels like the With Benefits could be added.

Surfrat @32: Bingo. People think "friend with benefits" and they think "fuck buddy," they forget the first word is "friend." A good FWB is equal parts friend and benefits. And that means they're happy to just hang out and talk, play video games, watch a film if you're not in the mood for sex. It also means they respect you enough as a person to stop if you say stop, which I think may be SCARED's fear, as a rape victim. I hope she has someone in her life who could fill that role for her.

With respect to DS reply to UGHRS: In a supposedly, by mutual consent, monogamous relationship where one person cheats, but is absolutely opposed to an open relationship. (Where none of the justifications for cheating existed) Does the person who cheated, claims the affair has ended, but does not end all contact with their partner in the affair, have a right to privacy since the cheating entailed (as it always does) lies, deceit and betrayal?

Just wanted to note, instead of dumping someone, we should now say we have “...anthropologically and historically allocated [that person to] another temporal space continuum.”

That is all.

@35 ~ Ha!

@35 wouldn't relegate, banish, exile, or condemn be more appropriate than allocate. I am particularly fond of "banish to the ash of history"

after all, it is intended to replace dump

@16 BiDanFan - A re-read of the letter makes me a lot more charitable towards this view. Could be that the age difference between myself and the author (six years) is enough that her peers aren't in fact only offering FWB arrangements, which you're right, is not my preference. A close reading does seem to point to the fact that it's the strangeness of the dick that freaks her out, not the lack of commitment attached to it.

Nevertheless, I think the best thing she could do would be to understand her own attachment patterns and discuss with a therapist.

I also think that it can be hard to salvage a friendship that turned sexual, but certainly possible. What would you think of her setting up a dating profile, making clear that one-night-stands are off the table, and looking for a new friend to get laid with?

@sportlandia Craigslist casual encounters are dead, long live /cas/

BDF, could be. I've met some really sweet couples and talked with them in ways I would never have done if the dudes themselves approached cold. But I was thinking more about online folks- there are always women looking for partners for their men- you could strike up a dialogue with the women first. I suspect most of these folks are bi though. Just trying to think out of the box here. Also I don't know so much about after care- doesn't appeal to me a bit and honestly never even heard this term until recent years- but the LW sounds to me like she is looking for casual sex and just having trouble making sure she gets it in a safe way. To me, fucking someone who you know is vetted (you've met his wife which makes him far less likely to be a creep looking for someone to harm than someone anonymous) and you know he's less likely to want something more (he has a partner to go home to) are both benefits. Do people want "after care" after hookups? What does that even mean?

@39: Someone getting a lot of first dates is probably getting them off the internet. With online dating as an option, I think a lot of people never really looked at their friend networks to see who's single and compatible for FWB style stuff. Assuming that her big issue is that she's gone a couple of years without a good dicking and is simply horny.

As for spinning the ad to explicitly say that she's looking for a FWB, if you can think of a way to phrase one that doesn't result in an inbox immediately filled with ick please let the rest of us know. Unfortunately it's impossible to really communicate an interest in anything sex/kink related without being seen as immediately sex crazed.

@41: Assuming that there's not much more to the letter than "it's been a couple of years since I've had good sex and I'm really horny", looking for a couple makes a lot of assumptions. First, that she's actively bi. Second, that she's okay with generally anonymous sex so long as the partner has been properly vetted. (Most people would really rather know and have developed their own rapport with whoever they sleep with.) Third, couples seeking thirds aren't always known for either their rigorous self-introspection or their brutal self-honesty. Think how often someone will talk up their friend who also happens to be a shitty date, and someone counting on wives to properly vet their husbands will have to deal with an enhanced version of that.

Chi, I'm not assuming she's bi. I was talking specifically about women looking for partners for their men- as I stated twice. Second, this isn't an assumption, it's a possibility, and I said as much. She didn't go into detail, and loads of people here are assuming that she needs an emotional connection which she also didn't say. That is also an assumption. It could be that, but it could also be a fear for physical safety or a fear that the sex will not go down in a way that she's comfortable with. She might not need a connection with the person at all but rather more control over the situation which she could perhaps get by seeking sex outside of dating- such as with a sex worker or looking specifically for something online in an environment in which she would not literally be hooking up with a stranger but rather with someone connected to some community that knows him or a partner who is willing to meet ahead of time. We don't know because she didn't specify. Third, this is true, I acknowledged as much and so did BDF. As I said, it normally goes the other way so she'd have to be on guard. Nonetheless I've been approached by sweet couples before. I've never responded to an ad by a woman looking to help out her man, but I've read plenty of them. And I have a shy husband who has had opportunities that I've arranged for him though I'm uncertain to what extent he took advantage of those opportunities.

@32 surfrat and @33 BiDanFan: Well said. I agree that that would be the best possible situation for SCARED.

Wow. Maybe I'm just too old-fashioned, old-school, whatever, but I just cannot imagine (my) hooking up over the internet.

DC270 @39: "Nevertheless, I think the best thing she could do would be to understand her own attachment patterns and discuss with a therapist." -- Oh, absolutely. She said she is seeing a therapist, so that's one step in the right direction.
"What would you think of her setting up a dating profile, making clear that one-night-stands are off the table, and looking for a new friend to get laid with?" -- There's certainly no harm in that; the drawback there, compared with someone she already knows, is the fact that many people, men in particular, lie through their teeth in order to get laid. She can state that she's looking for an ongoing FWB and not one-night stands, and every man who responds will SAY he's also looking for an ongoing FWB, but a certain percentage of these will bolt without explanation after the first fuck. It can be very difficult to predict which complete strangers are sincere and which are just saying what you want to hear. She just needs to be prepared for the likelihood of this happening, and it doesn't sound to me like she would weather a ghosting very well.

EmmaLiz @41: By "after care" I mean respecting her enough as a rape survivor to care about the psychological effects the sex they've just had may have had on her. Talking to her about how she felt -- not just "did you come," but do you feel safe, do you feel respected, did you get what you wanted out of the experience. Holding her and making her feel valued, not used. Staying the night, not going immediately home to his wife and leaving her alone with her conflicted emotions. (I admit I've never been in the situation of approaching or being approached by a woman for the purpose of sex with her husband; with me and couples, the one I want is the woman, and it's usually a disappointment to find that he is the string attached or the driving force behind the approach.)

ChiTodd @42: Agree that with the ubiquity of internet dating, many people "forget" that they can also approach people in meatspace. One advantage of online is that it takes away the daunting prospect of having to make a physical approach, potentially be rejected, and end up spending the rest of an awkward evening in the same room as the person who's just turned you down. Internet dating feels safer for many. Also, many people subconsciously put people they've known for a while into a "friend" box mentally, taking them out of the "potential shag" box -- and/or assume their friends/acquaintances have done the same with them. Or, as DC270 @39 says, feel that a friendship would be risked if they broached the topic of making it sexual.

Sadly, the situation of the first letter writer is very similar to the situation I am in the moment. I hate the idea of pursuing my friends for this sort of thing though. I feel that I would almost certainly get hurt if I had something casual with a friend, because if you care about each other and you have great sex together then doesn't it stand to reason you should be in a proper relationship? If not, why not?

What I'm going to do (I haven't started yet) is just look to date people slowly and carefully, and let them know about my limits. Unfortunately, casual sex is something I'm no longer going to be able to do. I've been pretty angry and bitter about this, and tried to push myself to do things that made me feel unsafe, but I've accepted it now.

On a different subject, what the fuck is going on with LW2?

Elmsyrup @47: Your use of the phrase "proper relationship" reveals your bias here. But there are many reasons one (perhaps not you) might want an "improper" FWB relationship. To me, friends with benefits represents getting the best parts of a relationship without any of the baggage or drama of a capital-R Relationship. With FWB, you get companionship and sex but you get to keep your freedom. Not just freedom to date/fuck other people: freedom to make your own weekend plans without checking in with anyone; freedom to attend a wedding or party solo; freedom to not feel obligated to call or text every day if you've got nothing to say. "Proper" relationships are loaded with societal expectations, in particular that the relationship will "progress" towards exclusivity, cohabitation, marriage and/or children. If you don't want any of those things or if you're not sure if you do -- or if you do, just not with this person -- a FWB arrangement won't make you feel pressured to make commitments. Also, there's less pressure to "round someone up" to The One when you know they are not -- for instance, let's say that in the long run you want kids and they don't. A breakup-worthy incompatibility, but not if your relationship is casual. And speaking of breakups, that's another advantage: Either of you can terminate the benefits aspect of the friendship whenever you feel it's no longer working or you meet someone you want to get serious with -- no messy breakup.

This all sounds ideal except for the one admittedly major drawback you've already identified: the very strong possibility that one or both people will catch feelings as a result of ongoing good sex. If you both do, then great! You can take the relationship to the next level. If only one does, then sadly, they are likely to get hurt. But any relationship carries the risk of getting hurt. So if you've got a good friend and there's chemistry (I would never try to force chemistry, it would just be weird), in my opinion, the risk is worth the payoff.

Scared, "The idea of casual sex and one-night stands sounds great—but in reality, moving that quickly with someone I don't know or trust freaks me out, causes me to shut down, and prevents me from enjoying anything."
One night stands and casual sex don't often happen within minutes of meeting someone new. I don't think they usually happen the first day you meet someone either. You could wait longer or use an old friend as Dan suggests. Or you can work on ways to establish the necessary trust you need quickly. What do you need to trust? Women commonly need to establish some trust that sex will feel good. Men don't have as great of track record at satisfying sex. You probably also need some extra trust that the guy won't mistreat you. The problem is not that you're freaking out, that you care about possible danger or disappointment. The problem is that you are not listening to your gut about EXACTLY what is bothering you and reasoning out solutions. In short, make a habit of baby steps to establish if he's good in the sack (talk, cuddle and make out until you get an idea of equipment size and style to see if they'd work with your equipment and style) and talk about dislikes and see how he handles conflict. Is he respectful? considerate? Or does he talk smack about other people and get swept away by his emotions? These should help gauge/trust his safety to be around but I could write a novel imma stop here.

DES, I get that you're kinda desperately lonely and have trouble connecting with others.. If you get awesome at taking care of yourself without being a huge pain to others you may meet other similarly awesome people who are your style.

UGHRS, you don't have to confront him until you've processed.. But unless you want to change your relationship to DADT, it looks like you're going to have to take a break to address the deep problems in your relationship. Right now it looks like, for whatever reason, he can only do DADT. Further he has not been able to negotiate it fairly. Seems like he is less attached to risk your relationship like this. Also sounds like you suspect a reason for this, may have betrayed him somehow, to be so understanding of his betrayal.. Do y'all still value things about each other or is it habit to be together?

@24 that's a good idea, maybe a friend has an ex they can lend her for FWB even if it's a one off. That way if she wants it the guy can be informed re the need for extra care and she can feel confident the guy is decent. I wouldn't take male friends recommendations because guys are often quite blind to the potential danger level of their friends. I'd also recommend she try women, if only temporarily, again possibly with the person informed if she wishes, to be able to go slow. Finding a male partner who has been through similar things isn't a bad idea either, they're not rare.

@24 or a boyfriend they can lend her, no reason it has to be an ex

Emmaliz @41 It means being a decent human being.
https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.p…

@46 Well if she's needing that sort of checking in and care afterwards, I'm not sure what to say. First off, we don't know for sure that she needs/wants that. But yes if she does, you are correct that this is something she really needs to consider before hooking up. I don't know how common this is without asking for it first, but I've never even once in my life had a hookup post-mortem like that. But I hadn't heard that term before a couple years ago and I'm not hooking up in that time, so maybe this is something all the cool kids are doing! Yes, I can see how this could be important for trauma survivors to be able to talk about these things afterwards and my guess is that you wouldn't assume you'd get this in any casual situation- you'd have to be upfront beforehand that this is something you expect afterwards and be with someone you trusted.

@53 That link refers to aftercare in a BDSM setting which I'm nearly positive is not what the LW is into. I've heard that term used in that context obviously. We're talking about a hookup here, not BDSM. "Casual sex and one night stands" is what she said, certainly not BDSM.

@54 the equivalency is the potential for emotional trauma. You would do the same for anyone you were with I'm sure.

Also for the inevitable "why would you suggest a straight girl fuck women??? It makes no sense!!! Men only forever!!!" comments. There are special circumstances when it makes sense to branch out a little.

https://mobile.twitter.com/andreakvng/st…

@54 incidentally BDSM might give her the control she needs to feel safe as well. If a guy is completely irrevocably immobilized, that might be where she feels safe for a time.
Very fine grained conversations about consent are also standard in that arena and I think it's something everyone would do well to familiarize themselves with as good practice, as they should with after care. I'm sure some like not caring about their partners well being but that does not sound like the type of partner who is going to be useful to her at this time.

Ms No @51: Good idea to ask a friend to provide a recommendation. Maybe one of her sluttier friends (I say this with every positive connotation) has someone in their past -- or indeed present -- who they know will treat her with kindness.

EmmaLiz @54: You've never had anyone be nice to you after casual sex!? They all just bolted? Now I don't know what to say. This seems pretty basic; if I went home with someone and they said something along the lines of "I'm nervous about this, because I have a history of sexual violence in my past," I'd know that I should proceed with extra caution, checking in with them along the way and afterwards to make sure they weren't allowing themself to be pushed beyond their comfort zone.

Yes, I too have only seen the term used in BDSM contexts, but it seems to fit what she needs here. As Ms No says, it's needed in BDSM situations because they are potentially traumatic; casual sex is potentially traumatic for SCARED, so any decent human is gonna make sure she's OK afterwards. Seems pretty obvious to me.

Ms No @56: Wow, way to treat lesbians/bi women as unpaid sex workers for this woman who isn't even into them. Next suggestion is better -- find a sub guy, she's in charge -- but the number of subs who "top from the bottom" means that one can easily end up feeling that their boundaries have been violated even one they were supposedly the one in control. Straight vanilla sex is enough of a challenge for SCARED, I don't think adding bisexuality or kink into the mix is going to help.

* even when they were supposedly the one in control.

SCARED - I was in your situation before Friends with Benefits was a term (but the arrangement certainly existed). That's how I dealt with balancing my need to feel safe with my desire to get laid when I wasn't in a committed relationship. I mostly slept with old friends (and one ex) who lived out of town. And I eventually found a couple in-town friends that I could occasionally sleep with without dating. None of these arrangements lasted a long time, and at least one got messy, but they all helped me get laid when I needed to and they also helped me to heal sexually (although that wasn't my goal at the time).

Ms Fan @49 - There is an art to having Non-Reciprocated Feelings. Most people just don't get sufficient practice to become good at it.

Who's gonna be our next lucky numbers winner this week? Tick....tick....tick....
Okay--here's my two cents' worth this week:
Wow, @60 CleoGirl, @58 & @59 BiDanFan, EmmaLiz et al.: Thank you all for sharing. FWB and feeling loved and respected sounds SO wonderful. Where on earth did I go wrong (besides having once stupidly marrying a mentally unstable sociopath)? So often I feel like Shirley MacClaine's elevator girl, Fran Kubelick ("Going up, sir-watch your step") in Billy Wilder's tear-jerker (for me, anyway), The Apartment, with Jack Lemmon as a social climbing insurance salesman, who gets promotions by lending out his apartment to company bigwigs for their extra-marital flings--only to find out his boss (Fred MacMurray) is using Fran to cheat on his wife (1960). Like Fran, I just keep getting took and only know I'm being took. I need a trustworthy mentor.

@61 vennominon (re @49 BiDanFan): I am evidently among those who are not good at it. *sigh*

@58 that's an interesting place your thoughts went to. Many women and many men would gladly help someone in this situation, as you can see from comments above. You wouldn't, and because of that shouldn't, which is fine. I've known several women who have done this, some stayed with women some didn't, but if you're open about your intentions what's the problem?
And I know you know there's a massive difference in actual and percieved safety with women vs men, it's not even remotely close. Which is usually a big part of why every straight woman i know but one has been with women when younger, ymmv of course.

@58 what is it, 25% of women are bi, 10% are gay, and those are likely underestimates?
Have you really never thought about going pro? Pro-bono pro?
Who wants to go through life without exploring now and then?
As you can see from that link I posted it can go pretty well.

That's another good idea, hiring a licensed sex surrogate, but like you said gay or gay for pay male hookers will be a lot cheaper. Great suggestion BDF!

Speaking generally (not specifically to this situation), really nailing down the PTSD/panic attack trigger can be helpful (then you can anticipate, work around it), you can try desensitization training as you would with a phobia, will help decouple the involuntary physiological fear response, but ask your shrink, you will need training - without total control of the environment on your part and the ability to go infinitely slow you can aggravate the response/set yourself back - i.e. do not push it.

@66 I neglected to add bi men to that, apologies. But honestly I think she'd be better off w a gay male pro if she's sticking with men, because it takes a lot of the teeth out of it and all of the pressure, real or perceived. That's the plus with women too of course, and moreso, I don't get why we can't volunteer for that role unpaid without being exploited but I seem to be missing something.

BDF - how have you worked through your panic attacks during/before sex/dates?

LW - can you handle a massage? That might be a good safe place to start (get recs), it's at least body contact. There is a separate and arguably greater need for physical contact than sex (a lot of people have trouble separating them and think they are the same), I'm not sure how many cuddle type friends you've got but meeting that need which is separate from sex drive does help take the edge off.

BDF - if it makes you feel any better she could can bang a straight chick, who hasn't?

@70 by"a lot of people" I'm pretty sure I mean men. They don't get as many non sexual relationship cuddle opportunities to test this theory out, as a rule. Could be wrong.

LW- another median step eventually could be finding guys who want to give you no-recip-of-any-kind-required-on-your-part of whatever sex stuff doesn't trigger you (it all might at first, that can change). This would be a lovely addition to your desensitization routine if you find that's a way you want to go, and could easily be casual if that's what you prefer. Maybe working out a long term plan with no time pressure in it but different steps you could see yourself taking in the future might help you be patient with yourself and where you're at now, because you'll have some idea of where you're going. If you have a shrink this could be a good thing to work on with them. It's important to not make the steps too big, so make a lot of them. They can be tiny tiny tiny steps, that works better than putting hurdles in your way.

Ms No @64: I said it felt dismissive; I didn't say I wouldn't do it. You make a good point: Unlike yourself, I'm not exactly spoiled for choice in the pussy department. So if a friend approached me and said, "I'm straight, and I'd like to restart my sex life, but after some traumatic experiences I'm afraid of men. Can I practice on you?", and if she was sufficiently attractive, I might well decide that I may as well take what I can get. My main hesitations would be the inevitability, not just risk, that she'd leave me for a man, and the fact that few straight women will eat pussy, because straight. Pillow queens get boring fast.

Ms No @69 (congrats!): Um, by not having them?

Ms No @70: Massage is a good idea. It's a shame Craigslist is no more, though SCARED may or may not be in the US. There are many men who offer "yoni massage" or cunnilingus-only services with no reciprocation expected. This is essentially the pro bono sex work you describe. (In other words, what you went on to say @73.)

Ms No @71: Who hasn't banged a straight chick? Most straight chicks. I'd think that in any successful F/F pairing, at least one of them should be into pussy. Otherwise I just can't see the point.

Ms Grizelda - Bad luck? Of course, it could mean that your feelings were almost always reciprocated...

@No ~ A grudging congrats on the 69, (although 10 short posts in a row kind of takes the "magic" out of it...anyone can get 69 if they just post an overwhelming number of short bursts.) I like to earn my 69s the old fashioned way... by a strict 5-times daily regimen of strenuous tongue exercises.

...hence my avatar...

The idea of casual sex and one-night stands sounds great—but....

I really get the impression that SCARED is trying to make up for decades of lost opportunities - all the casual sex she presumes everyone else around her must be having - before she gets even older. It doesn't mean everyone IS having all that sex. [Considering the wide range of letters Dan receives about sexual incompatibility, etc., sometimes it's a wonder that anyone is having any sex at all!]

She may be jumping ahead of herself for a goal that may not be attainable yet at her current progress in therapy. She's stated she has tons of first dates that fizzle out. Could she be giving out mixed signals, of wanting super casual sex (with a tinge of desperation) but being hesitant (or even flinching) at the same time?

Instead of jumping immediately to sexual solutions, I'm thinking she'd be better off to go out on a few pseudo-dates with a male friend or two, act the way she normally does on recent dates, and then ask for an honest evaluation.

Think we've been here before Donny, re @no &69. There was quite a kerfuffal ( sic), and @no was, in my mind, given the b of the d.
Again though, they are beginning to look a little loose with the rules.

@69: Holy smokies, Ms no--I award you somewhat grudging congrats on hitting the magic number @69--after ten consecutive posts! Technically I am with the Official Savage Love Omnipotent Comment God, DonnyKlicious @76. I'd like to see someone hit @69 in a true way of random chance.
I once kept posting, too--and yes, Donny's right. If someone just keeps hitting a zillion short comments just to win the number it takes all the fun out of it. So I stopped doing that, agreeing with Donny and others that it was cheating.
I declare you this week's @69 winner, no, but with one restriction for you and everyone (including yours, truly, griz) participating starting as of Savage Love April 17, 2018:
Please refrain from submitting a high number of posts, intentionally or otherwise, just to hit @69. It is meant to be a lucky random comment numbers game so that everyone has a fair chance of hitting the lucky number. As of Tuesday, 04/17/2018, any multiple posts just to make @69 will be disqualified and the next commenter will win by default.
Anyway, good luck everyone in all future Lucky @69 games!
@76: Omnipotent Comment God, DonnyKlicious: Yours is definitely a well-exercised tongue. Kudos and a big Aack-oop!
@79 LavaGirl: I have decided to award the @69 to no this one last time (see above comment).
Here on out, however, no multiple posts just to land on @69 will be accepted as the winner.

Griz @80: Well I'm glad my objection to the Lucky Number Award being won as a result of multiple posts has at last been upheld :) I will say in Ms No's defence, though, that multiple posts in a row are her M.O., it's not a contrived scheme to hit the magic 69. Still, though, contrived or not, it does deprive other commenters of their chance to get lucky.

@62 - auntie G - that sounds lonely. I hope you find your mentor. (Or that you can mentor yourself).

My experience with FWB and flings was 20+ years ago - looking back I think they were (mostly) successful because of a combination of careful discernment and plain old luck. Because of my past, I was pretty distrusting of men, so I had to work to find guys I trusted enough to get naked with (finding women I trusted was easier but I had hangups about having flings / NSA sex with women). I targeted guys that I knew - friends or friends of friends - so I had a pretty good sense of how they treated their sexual and romantic partners and their attitudes towards women in general. It’s not like I made a spread sheet or anything - I mostly made my choices based on chemistry - but now that I think about it, I did have a mental list of people that I had chemistry with and that I thought I might trust enough to have sex with. I remember one friend of a friend that I had great chemistry with but who was a real cad - I filed him under “maybe, if he’s unexpectedly sweet AND shipping off to Mars the next morning.” (We never hooked up, obvs).

Venn @61: I too would like to learn more about your "art of having unreciprocated feelings." Please elaborate?

Ms Fan - It reminds me a little of the distinction Anne Elliot claims for women in her discussion with Captain Harville while Captain Wentworth writes the note with his renewed proposal, of continuing to love longer after hope or existence is gone. It helps to be the sort of person who would rather contract one's repertoire than ask one's partner's to expand.

Unfortunately, the podcast has ruined my mood to continue. Mr Savage's inviting the implication that he takes personal glee in openly proud gays' having the "shameful" kink of wanting to be called anti-gay slurs in bed (my word would be "dreary", but FTWL...) and the way that the blatantly perfunctory manner of his "not all"-ing generalizes the tendency (in a way more that would be closer to accurate in the other groups mentioned, but that's a minor point) could lead me into speculations I'd rather avoid, even about the number of people who only fake it.

@81 BiDanFan: I agree, which is why I have been careful to back off if I'm too close to @69 (...about @64 or approximately), to be fair to others. There have been times in which I hadn't realized how close I was---and in the heat of the comment posting fray landed by wild luck on the coveted lucky @69.
Re my website wendy.workx@gmail.com: Did you get to hear the SoundCloud recording of my first symphony? What did you think?
Big question: @Dan the man, what did you think of Symphony No. 1 in d minor ("The Drowning Pool") from 2007?
@82 CleoGirl (I LOVE your tux cat avatar, by the way!): We-ellll......I don't know about lonely, but it's more that I'm just routinely unlucky with men. While I have been hurt in the past (okay, but after a while, who HASN'T?--and I'm talking about the past, here), I'm not hiding behind the 'I've been hurt' shield. Rather, I'm just not out looking to get laid. Ironically, quite often that was how I would end up getting hurt in the first place. Dumb luck that.

@58 BDF-

Sorry I got busy with work so I don't know if anyone is still around. Of course I've been nice to people after casual sex and of course I've had them be nice to me. That is not what you described. You described this:

"Talking to her about how she felt -- not just "did you come," but do you feel safe, do you feel respected, did you get what you wanted out of the experience. Holding her and making her feel valued, not used. Staying the night, not going immediately home"

No, I have not had a post-mortem on how we each felt during it. If someone wanted to linger in discussing these things after a casual hook up, I'd be the one to bolt because I'd think they were being clingy. I'm much more into a "was it good for you" or "that was fun! if we do it again, next time let's do XYZ" or "hey, you hungry? How about I make us a sandwich".

I mean, everyone is different and I don't know what it's like to have sex when I'm not around so maybe most people do all this after care stuff as you described, but I've had no experience with that nor would I want to.

Also why I agree about proceeding with caution with a partner who I know has trauma, I also would not have a casual hook up with someone if I knew the trauma was a factor. I would put myself in a situation like that with someone I cared for, but doing that for casual sex sounds like work, not fun. This is probably the point of the conundrum- that she can't seek casual sex if she needs this much PTSD support to fuck. Yes it will have to be a trusted person. I was interpreting from her question that this was not the issue- that she needs some guarantee that she's safe and in control of how things might proceed, not that she needs all these emotional support. But that is perhaps wrong and I don't actually have the experience with those situations to know.

@74
1) it's not about a relationship. It's also not about practice.
2) knowing how fear works is pretty important to the LW navigating this. Panic attacks being a very common symptom. I'm sure it's not hard to find someone that gets it, especially if she's asking among women. You get more than five people together and someone will have them and know how to navigate through, ditto dissociation/depersonalization, etc.
3) I absolutely did not mean sensual massage. Craigslist not necessary.
4) I only know one straight chick who hasn't had sex with women. Most straight women are interested, and likely more under these specific circumstances - I mean, can you even imagine refusing someone w this request? Only reason to would be own trauma, which is fine and fair but then of course you can possibly help in other ways. The sexual attraction factor also has nothing to do with what the LW is trying to accomplish here, at least at first. Removing it entirely would be helpful.