Seems rather presumptuous of the booty call dude to assume they'd start "dating" after one sloshed unsatisfactory hookup. He has Nice Guy Syndrome written all over him.

Is it really more likely than not that the wife in L1 has never done anything with her textual inamorato?

Third letter shows the banal side of even an unusual experience. Reminds me a bit of an old This American Life about the effects of testosterone.

SWAT, this woman isn’t interested in you as a romantic partner now, and possibly ever, but if you can handle that fact you might be able to appreciate what you’re actually getting: regular sex with someone whose company you enjoy and whom you find sexually exciting. While she may not be interested in a romantic relationship, it does sound like she considers you a good friend, and enjoys spending time with you outside of any sexual experiences you’re sharing. So maybe you can just relax about what you might like, appreciate what you’re getting, and look for someone who is interested in you long-term while you’re getting sex regularly from your friend.

I have a different take on ED issues than Dan. SWAT’s problem is caused by the degree of his excitement at having sex with this woman who he wants badly. While being excited and aroused is a necessary prerequisite for getting an erection, getting too excited actually inhibits an erection by stimulating the flight or fight response. This will deminish once you’ve successfully had sex with this woman enough times that you’re excited, but relaxed when sexually engaged with this woman. In the meantime, you can either find foreplay that gets you erect enough for sex or use an ED medication. My guess is that you have or will experience this with other women too, as it may be the way you respond to sex with a new partner.

Where does "Jeremy" live? And what are the specifics of the "very sexual nature" of those texts? Is it clear from the content that it's all fantasy talk? Or does the content make you think she just spewed a convenient lie ("we've never met") when confronted? In other words, do you have reason to disbelieve her about her explanation? Your discomfort sounds like you do. I can't blame you, honestly. An entire decade of explicit texting, and not a single meetup sounds pretty implausible to me, unless he lives somewhere very inconvenient, and there are no uncomfortable references to "how nice last night was."

On the other hand, you can now consider yourself de-facto greenlighted to get yourself a text-only girlfriend. And your wife clearly doesn't need to know anything about it, since that's the way she rolls. Enjoy.

LW2: I was making an ewwwwww face throughout this letter and then laughed out loud in horror at the last line "it kinda seems like a date of some sort". No, it's not a date of some sort. I hope she doesn't booty call him again, whether or not she quits drinking.

I've never heard of "micro-infidelities", so I looked it up.

And...wow. Just wow.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/love-digitally/201801/is-online-infidelity-just-micro-cheating

"Behaviors which might fall within the definition of micro-cheating include:

Obsessively checking someone else’s (not your partner’s) social media posts.
Disclosing information to or confiding in someone other than your partner when you’ve had a bad day.
Saving someone’s name as something different in your contacts to avoid detection by a partner.
Using romantically charged emojis in a communication with someone outside your relationship."

Cheating by emojis is a thing now, apparently. As is talking to anyone other than your partner when you've had a bad day (what if you had a bad day because of your partner?). And how fucked-up is it that someone would feel the need to use code names in their own damn phone, because they know their SO will be snooping later?

"The survey found that a staggering 41 percent reported that the infidelity came to light through evidence revealed via a phone (Waterlow, 2013), strongly suggesting that partner surveillance may be justified."

"They warn that monitoring a partner’s behavior should be done with caution, as they noted that 28 percent of relationships worsened as a result of partner monitoring, while only 18 percent improved as a result (Derby K, Knox D, & Easterling, 2012)"

Good news for paranoid, controlling, abusive spouses everywhere! "Monitoring" your partner is totes "justified", as long as it's done "with caution"!

Jesus wept.

UITM ~ Mary has been secretly text-fucking some guy for over a decade, but it’s only the ONE guy right? And they’ve NEVER thought about mayyyybeee a little poke-in-the-whiskers for real, right? And you can totally trust her because aside from this ONE years long deception she is totally honest with you, right? Sorry, NOT being helpful! Hard to think with my bullshit detector ringing so loud. But, hey. Maybe she IS telling the truth. Not for me to say. GET INTO COUPLES COUNSELING YESTERDAY! This won't get solved by a sex columnist’s comment section.

SWAT ~ Your relationship only functions when alchohol in excess is involved. Sorry to tell you, but that is a big warning sign! Deal with your drinking problems first, then maybe you can focus on human interaction next. And for Pete’s sake, talk to a doctor about your ED!

HRT ~ You are in a relationship with someone you don’t talk to, rarely fuck, don’t like and don’t see a future with. YOU SAY, “We don’t talk, rarely fuck, don’t like each other and don’t see a future with each other. Thanks for the memories.”

Agreed with #6 - she's lying. She could have had an honest conversation about "flirty" texts and gotten permission, but she didn't because she likes the idea of it being forbidden, doesn't like the idea of her husband having the same freedom, and, oh yeah, is definitely cheating. Why on earth would you believe her now that you know she's a liar?

SWAT sounds like another "HTH" letter: "And the next night, it happened again...."

@5/Lost Margarita: Time was asking for a second cup of coffee inspired your spouse - who thought they made a great cup of coffee - to change brands (https://youtu.be/MJ4kCF22O2w), now you’re cheating with the hostess, justifying your spouse’s snooping of your emoji use.

Last letter: is being transgender like doing CrossFit or going to Stanford, that people have to tell you even when it’s irrelevant? Just break up!

I'd advise LW1 to read A Fairly Honourable Defeat and be thankful not to be acquainted with a real-life version of Julius King. Not being able to conceive that W1 would ever do anything that had a whiff of dishonesty about it seems perilously extreme. The novel has a range of deceptions among couples; LW1 might find it instructive.

As for when might have been a good time to disclose, we don't know whether the couple became exclusive via explicit agreement or just drifted into it.

SWAT is the guy in The Offspring's "Self Esteem"!

I have to add my skepticism to those questioning Ms. UITM’s story. More then 10 years of sexting, is longer than many people’s longest romantic relationship, and an eternity for a connection based solely on text communications. I have had many text-based connections with women, and I cannot think of any that didn’t involve exchanging nude or sexually charged photos and voice conversations where I gave my partner phone sex. UITM, if you looked through years of their conversation, and found gaps in their messages and no mention of photos and calls, or there were only recent messages, I would be suspicious that certain messages were deleted.

Invariably, any of my sexting that lasted more than a few weeks either transitioned into physical encounters or petered out, as one or both of us engaged with actual sex/romantic partners. While I appreciate that doesn’t prove anything about Ms. UITM’s behavior, but does lead me to doubt that she has kept this connection open and active, but has not engaged physically.

I get the idea that the first writer is not as chill as he thinks he is. He's created a "I would be okay with X but because it's Y, I can be mad." He doesn't want to seem jealous and angry because that doesn't mesh with his view of himself but really, he's got a problem with it altogether. Because otherwise this wouldn't matter - it's been 10 years with no meeting up so who cares.

SNJ-RN @ 8 “Sorry, another one of my long comments...”
You call that “long”? Looks like nothing but an opener for some others, not to mention you also cheated with spaces between paragraphs.

BCNT @ 15 “air-cooled VW's’
Agreed. I used to drive one of those vans out in the field long time ago. Great maneuverability since the engine is placed in the back, yet the dust always kept getting in the way.

Sublime @ 13
I had a similar online contact with a married person for couple of years. They insisted on using yahoo messenger after some initial emails, which sounded a bit odd at first. Couple sessions in I realized the no-history factor, not to mention the instant reactions and the video possibilities. We’ve never met in person and they kept their real identity pretty well.
I still find an ongoing 10-years of such relationship to be a bit odd, but who knows?.

I feel bad for SWAT: he really likes this woman and she sends him mixed signals. Or maybe what I mean is that it's hard to be used as a drunken booty call (DBC) when you really want a relationship with the other person. If you're the one making the DBC, and you can tell that the other person really likes you and wishes you were dating, it's an unfair, not-nice thing to do. Yes, I know everyone has free agency, blah blah blah, but it's taking advantage of someone and playing with their emotions and it torments the other person.

I have to think that there are other people this woman could go to for her DBC and given that now erectile dysfunction has entered the equation, she could be having better sex with someone else, too, which makes me think that she's a bit of a sadist or that she gets off on knowing that he is really into her. Which, if the case, makes her a bigger jerk than just someone making the odd DBC in a fit of horniness. She enjoys the power she has over him.

Dan has developed such a persistent blind spot for any letter that might let him respond with "if you say you would have been fine with Sexual Activity X if it had been discussed in advance, and you're only mad about your partner lying to you constantly -- just get over it already and be fine with everything!" I think this is good advice, in situations where a relatively brief amount of time has elapsed between whatever the transgression was and it's discovery.

But finding out your partner has been lying to you about something for a DECADE is a big deal, even if the underlying facts are not! You thought you were both honest with each other, and they weren't. They were lying to you repeatedly, consistently, and in ways you couldn't detect. And you learn that, when faced with a choice between their wants and upsetting you, they'll choose to do what they want and just lie, and then you have to wonder about what else that might be true of. It's not unreasonable to feel a discovery like this calls the whole relationship into question.

And that's in the best case scenario, that her account of this relationship is accurate. As others have pointed out, her story is fairly implausible, and it sounds much more likely that the wife confessed to ONLY the parts that she couldn't deny. How many other letters have we seen over the year about the piecemeal confession, one bit at a time as more evidence turns up? Then he finds undeniable evidence of one actual tryst and she confesses BUT IT WAS JUST THAT ONCE THAT'S IT, then he finds evidence of another time AND I SWEAR IT WAS JUST THOSE TWO TIMES NOTHING ELSE, etc.

It seems like Dan missed all the red flags (TEN YEARS???) because he saw an opportunity to push a pro-open-relationship slant and ran for it. Which I am mostly for! I thing I love about Dan is his consistent advocacy of the benefits of open relationships! But this letter was an EXTREMELY poor test case for it.

RE: UITM
Maybe we are missing a key clue here. They are 10 years into their marriage. After my decades of experience in my own married life as well as observing other long-term marrieds the "7-year itch" (it really is the 6-to-12-ish year itch) is almost predictable.
The spouses have been together long enough that there is very little electricity left in the day-to-day grind but their courting days are near enough in the past that they can easily recall and therefore miss that thrill. In the years after this happened to my marriage I spent a ton of cash on babysitters in order to get my miss N. out of the rut and away from our house and the daily grind. I warned both my kids about this. Neither of them listened, of course.

RE: SWAT
My take on this is the letter writer is flattered by the booty call from a woman who is out of his league in the "sober world", BUT he makes the grade as a good "BFF" to this woman in that sober public part of her life.
She wants to keep him at arms-length during that public life but keep him as her booty call when she needs an ego boost and warm man in her boudoir.
IMHO our young man must reconcile himself to the "booty call" role;.. he is never going to make the grade as F.T. boyfriend for this particular girl. If he truly wants an actual adult relationship he needs to find the woman who he wishes to settle down with. As long as he fools himself dreaming that this "booty call girl" will suddenly see him as boyfriend material, he will never move on. I am reminded of Bob Seger's line from the song "night moves" ..."I used her, she used me, and neither one cared;...We were getting our share"

UITM, set your terms now. Be honest. If you don't like this, say so. Dan told you to get over it and that would be great, but anxiety is a real pain in the ass, don't let this particular small cut fester into something worse. But, when you talk about this, say your bit and be done with it.

HRT if you don't even like your partner, what are you doing in this relationship? You're not sparing her anything by protracting this, you're just making it worse. Bite the bullet, let it be ugly, then let it heal. Do the right thing.

"I care for her deeply, I do not like her as a person."

I'm gonna need a drink to process that one.

UITM: I’m going to suspend disbelief about your story and tell you mine:

Seven-year itch on her part, a reconnection with a former fuckbuddy 150 miles away via text and Facebook messenger all out of public view, all of which were unbeknown to me, and then, five years after the secret emotional affair began and 12 years into the marriage, a confession.

Seeing that the horse was halfway out of the barn, and considering my own unmet needs, I offered her an open relationship. She countered with a demand that it be open on her end only, which I flatly refused because what’s good for the goose is good for the gander.

Three years of intense communication and negotiation followed. It was exciting to have a secret and liberating to be totally open with my spouse.

I met someone quickly; she eventually met another man that she found to be suitable. He was also a former fuckbuddy. I disapproved of him because he was obviously not in a good place mentally or physically and warned her that it would blow up in her face.

It did, and destroyed the marriage because she couldn’t follow the rules we negotiated and agreed on together, and because the other guy’s narcissistic drama fed into her need for conflict.

Through therapy and research I came to know a lot of interesting things about the Dark Triad of personality defects which would have been good to have known prior to entering the relationship 17 years ago. I’m in a much better place now, but the price and the learning curve were steep.

I don’t know your wife, but if she hid this from you for a decade, the entire duration of your relationship, she is not trustworthy and is probably capable of very sketchy behavior.

Call a lawyer, then a therapist.

@10. Fresh. It's relevant in that it explains why two incompatible people are together. They can understand wanting to be another gender than their birth gender. But this is sadly not sufficient ground of compatbility for a partnership.

I would say something else to UIST. I'd encourage him to ask why Mary has kept up this correspondence so long without feeling the need to meet the guy. I'd guess this is because the chat makes her feel sexy when, as an anxious and depressed person, he can't do this himself (he either doesn't feel like sex or is needy in an abject, not arousing way). Is this something they could open up about as a couple? Far from the clandestine texting being something that he can blame her for, it's possible that Jeremy is his benefactor: a figure who keeps their relationship in balance while he's going through episodes of depressed withdrawal.

sb53, I never experienced the 7-year itch, in fact the itch has never hit after 24 years. I'm not sure where that phrase came from, and why 7? Although I did read something a while ago that claimed the 7-year itch is now the 2-year itch based on the duration of relationships in general.

I guess IUTM's wife might be getting a libido boost from the text relationship that UITM benefits from, but I'm pretty doubtful. And I find it really hard to believe she's never actually had sex with this guy. It just sounds so implausible. I can't help but regard it as a betrayal of some magnitude but maybe that's just me. I've never exchanged flirtatious messages with anyone apart from my husband and never felt the slightest urge to. I have no idea if my husband has of course.

SWAT, tell her what you're interested in, she's not a mind reader. I'd she can't be interested in you unless she's drunk (imo, this means she's actually into you but for some technical/social reason thinks your an inappropriate partner so she shuts down when sober), then that's a deal breaker, but perhaps she's one of those women who needs permission before acting.

HRT, your relationship is definitely doomed, especially if you don't actually like her as a person. You do need to end it, and soon. However, I urge you not to blindside her by announcing you're leaving without some warning; that would be cruel and disrespectful, especially as this is a long term relationship. The only time that would be okay would be if a person feels that sticking around after expressing thoughts of ending a relationship would put them in actual physical danger from their partner - but that doesn't seem to be the case here.

Dan seems to think that your girlfriend should expect this, but that might not be true; she may see the relationship very differently than you do. Tell her you're unhappy and don't think that you are really compatible anymore, but you do care for her, and are trying to figure out the best thing to do for both of you. Give her at least a few days, or even a week or so, to digest this and come to terms with it before making any irrevocable moves, unless the situation becomes untenable. Be willing to go to some couples therapy - even if it doesn't save your relationship (very unlikely), it could help you decouple in a more mature, less hurtful way. Be kind - tell her you are grateful for the good times you have had together, even if far in the past (there were some good times in the beginning, right? - otherwise why are you together at all?). But don't let her manipulate you emotionally into staying beyond the time when you do feel you need to leave. And don't let your (potentially unconscious) desire to avoid the cognitive dissonance involved in perceiving yourself as the one potentially hurting their partner allow you to demonize or degrade your girlfriend, to excuse bad behavior on your part. In short, don't be a jerk. Be kind, but honest and firm. Good luck!

LW1, UITM: I'm still trying to figure out your first sentence: "Without snooping, I came across texts..." Beyond that, I agree with most other commenters that where there's this level of smoke, there's almost a 100 percent chance of fire. Of course you are upset at discovering that your wife has been engaged in an online affair with a stranger since before you were married, a relationship that she deliberately chose not to confide to you. IMO it definitely qualifies as long-term infidelity, although Dan dismisses it as "micro," presumably since no bodily fluids were exchanged IRL. (At least that's her current story.) And then you say "If only she'd told me, I'd be OK with it" - Exactly. But she didn't.

LW2, SWAT: Sorry to say this, but Dan and sb53@20 nailed it. You are never going to realize your true-love fantasy with this woman, and you'll be much happier in the long run if you demote her to FWB status and go find someone who wants a real-deal, loving relationship with you, even when sober, and in broad daylight. The good news is that it sounds like you have enough non-sexual compatibility to remain friends and continue to appreciate each other's gifts on a platonic level, even if your next relationship is strictly monogamous and those drunken midnight booty calls must come to an end. In the meantime, try dialing back on your own consumption of booze and any other intoxicants you take alongside. You may find those booty calls (and even the caller!) surprisingly less attractive.

LW3, HRT (cute acronym, BTW): I think transgender couples may face a greater angst about breaking up than cis couples, in that the rejected partner can't be sure whether it's because of innate personality conflicts or simply because they are trans. So it's no surprise that the partner who wants to break up, whether cis or trans themselves, is unwilling to inflict that level of grief and self-doubt on someone they once loved - even when there are very good reasons to leave. But being in the Trans Club does not doom you to spend the rest of your life with an incompatible partner. It sounds like being trans is about the only attribute you share with GF, so I think you are smart to want to break things off before you end up married to someone you say you don't even like. I know it's harder for Ts to date and form lasting relationships, but from your description of your current relationship with GF, both of you would probably be a lot happier if you stayed single or found different, more compatible partners.

Re: UITM I hope there are no children involved, because if there are then this will become nightmarish. Given the level and duration of lies and deceit he can never completely trust his wife again. This is not a little white lie. The relationship has been going on longer than his relationship with his wife. While it may (it is possible) never have become physical, it is still an emotional affair and cheating. As has been pointed out, what else is out there and how can he ever know the "truth". There is really no way for the wife to prove that there isn't anything more out there. He obviously can't take her word or promise for it.

People do very stupid things, like printing out and keeping email conversations where they can be found. So it is possible that he found the texts without snooping.

He must insist that this stop now and there never EVER be any kind of contact in the future. A brief text message informing Jeremy of this must be sent to him in UITM's presence and Jeremy needs to acknowledge this after which the cell phone, smart phone, computer must be destroyed. All vestiges of Jeremy must be destroyed. For the foreseeable future (maybe forever) the wife has sacrificed her right to privacy. They need to begin and continue intensive couples counseling. If the wife refuses any of this or is unable to abide by these terms then there is no point in trying to safe his marriage. Lest you think me extreme or overly harsh.

http://husbandhelphaven.com/how-to-end-an-emotional-affair/

This is a precursor to forgiveness and the rebuilding of trust. Jeremy is forever off limits, even if they eventually open their marriage. Otherwise he is never going to able to put this behind him and she will inflict additional pain on him. Forgiveness and reconcilement are possible, but not if Jeremy is still around.

We know the approximate duration of the "affair", but not how often Mary and Jeremy have been sexting each other. How often has Mary fantasized fucking Jeremy while she was fucking her husband?

This is a long term emotional affair and cheating that Mary knew was wrong. We know the duration of the affair, but not how often they were sexting each other. How often has Mary fantasized fucking Jeremy while fucking her husband?

http://husbandhelphaven.com/how-to-end-an-emotional-affair/

SWAT is so delusional. Actually, they both are. She friend-zoned him from the beginning (which BTW doesn't make them really "friends"); but, when she's soused enough (and apparently desperate), she blows her dog whistle and he comes running! She's already indicated to him that she wants to stop drinking, but hasn't yet. I wonder whether she has sexual hangups that dissuade her from having sex when sober.

SWAT has ED which doesn't even make him a reliable booty call (oral notwithstanding). But he's curiously compartmentalized the problem (made worse by stress and overwork - duh), thinking he can just get the "situation fixed". A responsible doctor shouldn't prescribe without taking the stress, overwork, AND drinking into consideration.

This is a dead-end fuckbuddy situation, SWAT. She's told you she wants to stop drinking, so she'll be more conflicted about how often she breaks down and calls you. And, seriously, how scintillating can the conversations be when you're both "tipsy", judgment impaired?

You're both suffering from low self-esteem. She should work on hers, and you on yours - separately. While you're at it, face up to the terminal consequences of being a stressed and overworked man, [So not kidding here. One of my exes is really EX.]

@23, Idreamofhorses, wow, thank you for sharing your story.

@25 Busy
I agree with the article that you read about the 7-year itch becoming the "2-year itch". We attend weddings of young folks and at the reception we watch their behavior towards one another and their wedding guests. By the end of the celebration we compare notes and make an estimate of how long the marriage will last based upon our observations of other couples over the years.
Congrats on not feeling the "itch" after 24 years! I worry that my experience was partly due to our inexperience;..we were married as teens back in the day when that was not uncommon.

Damn server. sorry about the double post

sb53 @35, I'm my husband's first girlfriend! Sometimes that worries me (does he want to sow wild oats or whatever the term is?) but he seems very happy as long as I keep finding him sexy.

@31. A skeptic and a cynic. I would fantasise about being with someone else about 65% of the time when I'm being fucked and 98% of the time when I'm topping. Beyond a certain point, many people imaginatively withdraw, go into their own world, if they want an orgasm. This needn't be such a huge deal. What does the LW want? Is her happy for Mary to carry on her correspondence, within limits, with Jeremy. Does he want to end it? To have further reassurance they're not meeting? They have to discuss the facts before them, not dwell on the ethics of her secret and nature of her past 'emotional affair'.

I wish our school Health classes, or whatever they call them now, taught "how to break up" and "how to be broken up with."

(Also, "you don't need the other person's clearance", and "you don't need a qualifying logical reason.")

HBTB @ 24 Your supposition would be credible if Mary had begun the sexting sometime after they were married and in response his episodes of depression and anxiety.

DS ignores the fact that UITM had the right to decide for himself if he wanted to be in an (emotionally) open relationship. Mary deceived (withheld material information) him from the very start of their relationship and in doing so took away his right to make an informed choice. If she had terminated her relationship with Jeremy when things became serious (i.e. a committed, mutually exclusive (which is what UITM believed it to be) relationship) then it would not have mattered since it predated that point in time. Since she didn't terminate the relationship she was morally obligated to inform him of its existence and that it would continue. Instead she chose to lie to, deceive, and betray UITM for over a decade. Their marriage vows almost certainly included the forsaking all others clause (so yes it was betrayal). It really doesn't matter that it was sexting. It could have been any of the many make or break things for a relationship.

HBTB @ 37 While your point regarding fantasy is generally true. In this case it isn't because it involves an ongoing relationship that UITM didn't know existed. The morality of the activity itself is irrelevant. The morality of the lies, deceit and betrayal is. The trust that UITM had in Mary has been shattered. He doesn't say that he is, but people generally and rightfully feel disrespected in situations like this. He really doesn't know (and has never known) who Mary truly is. Finding out that the person you love is not only capable of, but actually has been lying to, deceiving, and betraying him for a decade (the very start of their relationship) is devastating more most people.

@15 CMDwannabe: Whaaaaa...? Are you sure you mean me in this SL comment thread (re @8)? Or are you referring to the other SL slog about the VW van LW's scenario and comments?

@40. A skeptic and a cynic. The most important fact about UITM's marriage for me is that it's lasted ten years. And that Mary is still around. It's had its ups and downs, yes. Some of these came about because of UITM's depression. This time--his finding out about her sexting affair--is definitely a 'down' moment. But many married people accept they have to roll with the punches.

Where I agree with you is that Mary's secrecy must now stop. Many people think that she has only met the minimum possible plausible requirement of disclosure and that she got up to more with Jeremy. Is this correct? Can she give the texting up? For me, the 'emotional affair' was less bad because it was only emotional (if this is so). UITM is entitled to get straight answers to all his questions. Then they decide what to do.

RE: letter 2– You know what I find weird- and a turnoff? When a man with ED doesn’t seek medical attention the minute it starts to happen on a regular basis. I was recently dating someone and he had ED issues and I asked him what was going on and he said- “I don’t know, this happens to me sometimes and I am not sure why....maybe I should see a doctor.” I had kind of liked him before that, but his lame attitude to a (in my opinion) major issue was a dealbreaker. I don’t know why any man who loves sex would procrastinate on that. Why wait? All it told me is that he doesn’t like sex NEARLY as much as I do! And that’s a non-starter for many of us. So LW 2, go to a doctor right away so that when you do find someone who is a better fit you will be ready to go!

CP @43 Maybe the ED was a result of the pressure to "perform" you subjected him to, and what he said was a "it's not you, it's me"-like non-confrontational white lie.

"although I care for her deeply, I do not like her as a person"

In other words, you care for and like the concept of her that you carry around in your head, the one about what she could be and how wonderful life would be together, if only she wasn't who she actually is. You don't actually care for her. You want the fantasy version of her, not the reality of her.

Just to clear up that little bit of lack of clarity.

HBTB @ 42 I hope that when DS advised UITM to get over he was referring to the sexting which is not the real concern here. UITM says he would not have had a problem with it if he had known. As near as I can tell DS was focused entirely on the sexting and totally ignores the 10 years of lies, deceit and yes, betrayal (which is what concerns UITM)

"this has been going on since before we met. (We've been together 10 years.) She says she has never met him in person (despite communicating with him for more than a decade!) and this was the only thing she was doing that she thought would have been out of bounds. Again, if I had known, it would have been fine. I'm not okay with her being with other guys, but I know harmless flirting can be a release. Still, I have issues with anxiety and depression, and this is definitely triggering me. I do not want to snoop and I want to trust her, but I am having a hard time with both. Prior to this, it never occurred to me that Mary would do anything that had a whiff of dishonesty about it. But her having kept this from me for as long as I have known her has made me question that. I don't want to keep bringing this up to her, but I am struggling with it."

It is not the sexting that is triggering his anxiety and depression, it is the decade of lies, deceit, and betrayal that he is struggling with. The sexting is not what has put his marriage in jeopardy. If things are as Mary says they are (something he is having difficulty believing) and it limited to harmless sexting then she has turned something trivial into a major crisis. People do stupid things and the cover up is always way worse than the source of embarrassment (i.e. Nixon and Watergate) The opposite is true with Trump who, among other things, has committed treason if only by calling for armed insurrection by his followers. His behavior makes me suspect that he is an agent of a foreign power bent on the destruction of this country and the countries that have been its democratic allies for the last 60 years. (I mean, attacking Canada, get real) This is right out of the Soviet playbook going back all the way to the Bolshevik revolution (which actually was a coup d'état) Those who don't learn from history are destined to repeat it. Given their shared mannerisms I can't help wondering if Trump is the reincarnation of Benito Mussolini. Sorry about the digression.

Does anybody really believe that just sexting (harmless flirting) was so important to Mary that she would continue it for a decade at the risk of destroying her marriage? Does anybody believe that Mary didn't know what she was doing wrong (the lies, deceit, and betrayal that the sexting required) and put her marriage at risk? She admitted that she knew it was wrong (out of bounds). She could've ended it at any point during the decade without exposure and its consequences, but she didn't. I am curious just how he found out, did she do it intentionally(consciously or subconsciously). This was a statement that her relationship with Jeremy was more important to her than UITM or their marriage. [I do understanding that doing something wrong can be thrilling because of the possibility of getting caught] That she had no problem lying to her husband, deceiving and betraying him is what destroys relationships and marriages. It makes it impossible for him to believe or accept at face value anything that she said or did during their entire relationship. Was anything true is the question haunting him and there is no way for Mary to prove since to do so relies on her being truthful and for UITM to believe she is being truthful (that would require that he trust her, something that she has destroyed).

@42: "The most important fact about UITM's marriage for me is that it's lasted ten years. And that Mary is still around."

So fucking what. That is literally the absolute minimum required effort for a relationship. There is no possible way to do less than that and still be in a relationship.

She spent that entire 10 years withholding something important from her husband; she either knew that she was being dishonest about something that would hurt him, or she has incredibly poor judgment, or she is an emotionally clueless idiot. None of those things are good qualities in a partner. He's right to feel betrayed, he's right to not trust her, and he's right to think less of her. Dan got this very, very wrong, but then, Dan seems a bit color-blind around honesty.

As for emotional cheating versus physical cheating, different people have different tolerances for each. The fact that one seems worse than the other just means you're in a different camp from someone who feels the opposite. What matters is how LW feels, and it doesn't sound good. He shouldn't beat himself up or try to talk himself out of how he feels; his wife did a shitty thing. FOR TEN FUCKING YEARS.

Hello everyone, I'm back, sunburned, and NOT looking forward to getting back to work!

Here's a song for SWAT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-AuVL6K_0

Dude, your situation is not unusual. Your assumption was. You were nothing but friends, then she got drunk and jumped you, and you assumed you'd start dating? No; you should have assumed that alcohol inspires her to have sex with people she has no romantic interest in, which her subsequent behaviour has proven. Like Dan says, if you like being used (your erection problems suggest otherwise), keep answering the summons, otherwise, tell her to get a Tinder profile and leave you alone.

HRT, wow, you've never been either a dumper or a dumpee? Tell her, "I'm breaking up with you." Those are not difficult words and I agree with Dan, they aren't likely to be unwelcome ones. Time to move on.

Skeptic @31: Irrelevant. As Harriet said, most people fantasise about people other than their partners at least sometimes. If Mary exchanged some salacious texts with Jeremy and then had hot sex with UITM, how can that be considered a bad thing for their marriage?

I'm with CMD and Hunter, I think it's entirely possible to have a long-term, non-physical flirtation with someone who is geographically -- and latterly monogamously -- unavailable. Perhaps Jeremy and Mary would have progressed towards meeting in person if Mary had not met UITM, who presumably had the advantage of being local. The important thing is that UITM seems to believe Mary, and based on that, I choose to do so as well. So the question is whether this falls under Mary's right to privacy or whether it qualifies as deception on her part.

The fact is that she hid this, and based on her lie of omission UITM retains doubts -- which is understandable. In order to win UITM's trust, Mary should allow him to access her phone whenever he asks, to reassure him she's not hiding anything (else). This is enough of an infraction that "get over it" isn't good enough. I also think UITM is within his rights to ask Mary to end the relationship as proof she's committed to him. UITM is bending over backwards to seem chill about this, but he's not -- and he's not out of line for feeling this way. Mary has some trust to earn back, and if she's a decent human, she knows this.

@50 - clarified, UITM is within his rights to ask Mary to end the relationship with Jeremy, or at least the sexting portion of their friendship.

Welcome back BDF. You didn’t use sunscreen with a high enough SPF rating. I agree with that fantasizing about fucking someone else is common. Doing it while fucking is just plain rude. It is not unreasonable to expect the person fucking to be focused on you. Consider your reaction to your partner being distracted by someone else when they should be focused entirely you.
I am assuming a mutually agreed upon monogamous relationship. I realize most people will stray or at least be tempted to stray during the course of a 10 year relationship. Being in a sexual relationship with someone else during the entire course of a 10 year relationship may be unforgivable. The duration and unknown frequency of the sexting are concerns. The level of concern corresponds to the frequency. (on a spectrum of bad to worse: once a year, several times of year, once a month, several times a month, once a week. several times a week, once a day, several times a day) Was there an exchange of explicit photos (YTBD). Mary is compromised at this point and everything she says is suspect. Even if sexting was the only thing (UITM is having a hard time believing that there was never, ever any face to face contact, suspicion increases as distance decreases) there will always be the suspicion that there is something more. What other secrets does she have. How they met is something I would want to know. This a consequence of the duration of the sexting. Remember, she had no problem with lying to her husband (about something which she had to assume would hurt him, that being the definition of doing something wrong), deceiving and betraying (the forsaking all others of her marriage vows) him for more than 10 years (including dating and courtship) All of the (naïve) trust he had in her has seriously damaged, if not shattered. Mary has to earn his trust again (no qualifying as just some), but he will never completely trust her again. That’s the consequence of 10 years of lies, deceit and betrayal.

https://www.elitedaily.com/p/is-emotional-cheating-bad-heres-why-its-just-as-bad-as-physical-heating-3069772
http://husbandhelphaven.com/how-to-end-an-emotional-affair/

Skeptic @52: My reaction to my partner fantasising about someone else would be nonexistent, because I have no idea what is in their head when we are having sex. I would hope that they would be focused on me MOST of the time, but if their barista that morning had been particularly hot and found her way into my partner's head later on, how would I be any the wiser? So long as no one else's name is being called out, no one is being "rude." And if said encounter with said barista puts my partner in the mood for sex they might not have been thinking about otherwise, then my reaction should be Thank You, Hot Barista, For That Great Sex My Partner Just Had With Me.

(Not everyone shares your belief that a 100% focus on one's partner is necessary during sex. What about couples who watch porn together? What about people who have threesomes? Use toys? And what about fantasising about, for instance, kinky acts while having vanilla sex with a vanilla partner? For some people, these things aren't "distractions" but "enhancements".)

I disagree that UITM can never, nor will ever, trust Mary again, but I agree that UITM is focusing on the wrong thing: would he be okay with her having a sext buddy (yes) rather than is he okay with her keeping a 10-year secret (no). As you say, the inevitable reaction is "what else is she hiding." It will take some time to restore confidence that no, she isn't hiding anything else -- if, as you say, he can get there at all. Perhaps Mary (correctly) assumed that UITM wouldn't be bothered by flirty texts, but she chose to keep having her cake and eating it rather than risk that UITM would ask her to end the flirtation by disclosing it. That was selfish on her part and she needs to own that.

One thing I'm wondering is whether UITM knew of this friendship, just not the nature of their communications. If Mary hid Jeremy's existence for 10 years, that's a higher level of deception than just not mentioning that their conversations were sometimes sexual in nature.

On the assumption that it's usually seen by residents of England as more of an achievement than a complaint, I congratulate Ms Fan on her sunburn. For obvious non-centred reasons, I wish the southern portion of the island very little rain during the first half of July.

W1 seems to have been a little fortunate in that her secret came out when it was only the duration that would cause the problem. Sticking with A Fairly Honourable Defeat, her ongoing flirtation, as something that would have been no problem in the relationship had it been known, is close to being on a plane with Rupert's not telling Hilda (his wife) he lent Morgan (Hilda's sister) four hundred pounds, because Morgan didn't want Hilda to know she'd robbed Tallis (Morgan's estranged husband). Hilda would certainly have approved of the loan. But it was kept a secret, and Hilda found out only after Julius put it into her head that Rupert and Morgan were having an affair...

Meanwhile, Hilda skated on a somewhat more serious deception of longer standing. She'd agreed with Rupert that if Peter (their son) wanted to drop out of Cambridge as a protest against corporate/capitalist society, he should feel the full effects of his decision and not be subsidized. But every time they'd met, Hilda had left Peter a cheque or slipped him a couple of tenners.

RE: UITM There was a short discussion last weekend with my Miss N. about UITM's texting-only affair, and what it portends. Miss N. holds that an emotional affair is the same as cheating;...In Her opinion, the wife has been cheating on him for 10 years.
I disagreed. To me cheating is cheating only if someone is having sex. I wanted to extend the discussion to see what were Miss N's limits of cheating as regards a spouse masturbating solo, and /or having sex with an inflatable doll or goodness, a robot. AS I formed my thoughts on the topic i decided to remain silent and mix another martini, I had my answer already.

@46. A skeptic. I don't think Mary's sexting relationship is 'trivial' but I don't see why it should portend the end of everything the LW thought he had.It doesn't seem to be good that he's saying he is 'triggered'--it sounds as if he's making it about his anxiety, not about what they can work out as a couple. If Mary needs her 'down' times twice or so a week when she sexts some guy on the other side of the continent, is there such a harm? The issue is what they can live with, and how far the couple can establish a basis of trust that, yes, all that's going on is her texting and chatting to another guy as an outlet.

I wouldn't like to say that, despite Mary's assurances, there is actual cheating going on, because it would suggest that UIST knows nothing at all about his situation. If this is the basis of giving any advice, then there would seem little sticking to the situation described. And I can believe, on the basis of what he says about himself, that his wife was just indulging in some 'relief' texting.

@48. Chase. Perhaps part of the effort Mary has put into making the marriage work has been to maintain this sanity-saving, carefully sequestered and electronic-only flirtation? Reality isn't always as perfect as we want it to be. UIST is anxious, depressed and can withdraw? Of course this has consequences for a marriage. Yes, sure, we would like our partners to be unstintingly present and loving in our down times, to be all love when we need caring-for, all raunch when we're sexy. But this is the real world. There have to be workarounds for every problem a couple has.

vennomion @ 54 Your analogy is a flawed apple and oranges comparison. A better analogy would be Rupert lending Morgan $20 a week (making it a more realist amount given the frequency and duration) for 10 years. It doesn't seem like a large amount until you add it up $20/wk x 52 weeks = $1,040/yr x 10 years = $10,400. (Some one offering you $100 if you will give them $.01 a day, doubling every day for a month which mean you would pay them $10,737,418.23) As with your example Hilda wouldn't have had a problem, depending on the reason for the loans, if she knew it was happening. (It also depends on their relative levels of income). Hilda would probably be well and truly pissed to find out after 10 years. The seriousness of the deception is less important than the frequency and duration of the deception.

BDF @ 53 Under most circumstances it would not concern me nor would I wonder about my SO fantasizing about fucking someone else, I wouldn't be pleased if she was fantasizing while she was fucking me. Then again I would never know or have reason to wonder. This is different. Under these circumstances I would definitely wonder about that. Even without evidence (at this point in time) of a physical relationship, imaging her being fucked by Jeremy would also be going through my head. (another question would be, are/were there others). He is having trouble believing that there never a physical relationship. All he has is Mary's word that there never was any face to face contact and her word isn't credible at this point in time. Her making the forsaking all others marriage vow (I know an assumption, but a fairly safe one for a monogamous relationship) when she was engaging in at least sexting with someone else. Something that is unknown is if there ever was a time during that the sexting stopped during the 10 years. UITM is still in shock and is not thinking clearly. Most likely his imagination is running wild. A rock solid foundation, that never was, has turned into quick sand.

sb53 @ 55

"https://www.elitedaily.com/p/is-emotional-cheating-bad-heres-why-its-just-as-bad-as-physical-heating-3069772
http://husbandhelphaven.com/how-to-end-an-emotional-affair/

Skeptic @59: "Even without evidence (at this point in time) of a physical relationship, imag[in]ing her being fucked by Jeremy would also be going through my head."

Now who's fantasising about other people during sex? How rude.

As sb53 @55 notes, different people have different ideas about what constitutes cheating. UITM does not agree with you that this relationship constitutes cheating. "Again, if I had known, it would have been fine. I'm not okay with her being with other guys, but I know harmless flirting can be a release." So you're projecting how YOU would feel about a partner of yours having this sort of outside relationship. Which sounds a bit melodramatic to me -- "10 years of lies, deceit and betrayal," really? What would you call an actual physical affair? -- but if Mary had disclosed this relationship earlier on, she would know exactly how her husband felt about this sort of thing, and whether she could continue with his blessing. Which she didn't do. Now she's put herself in the position where he doesn't trust her, even if she's done nothing that was, in her mind or his (the only two minds that matter here), wrong. Hyperbole aside, I agree that her keeping this secret has damaged his trust and she will have some work to do to regain it.

HBTB @ 56/57 UITM issue is the 10 years of lies, deceit, and betrayal not the sexting, which in and of itself not a problem (he says he wouldn't have had a problem with it if he had known). Commenters who are focusing on the sexting are not seeing the forest for the trees. The sexting itself is not the threat. Mary said she has NEVER met Jeremy (which UITM is having a hard time believing). As I've commented earlier, the probability of a (physical) affair increases as the distance decreases. I am curious if Jeremy knows where Mary lives and what they were using for sexting (smart phone, emails, pc, tablet, social media, dating site, Ashley Madison et al).

"Perhaps part of the effort Mary has put into making the marriage work has been to maintain this sanity-saving, carefully sequestered and electronic-only flirtation?" The sexting predates her relationship with UITM and has little, if anything, to do with what is happening in their marriage. However, if she does need the "relief" of sexting, then OK as long as Jeremy is off limits. If she agrees then it's about sexting, if she disagrees then it's about Jeremy (and that may be all she wrote).

BDF @ 61 If I were in UITM's position under these circumstances. I have absolutely no prurient interest in this. The human mind, unbidden, will imagine the worst. A child goes missing, as time goes by and panic sets in, all of the horrible possibilities run through your head. An affair is an affair is an affair. What someone considers to be an emotional affair may vary, but you do not get to decide what an emotional affair is, your SO does. They also get to decide how serious something is. What may seen innocent and innocuous to you, may be anything but to your SO, Continued contact with your lover after the affair is discovered is the best example that comes to mind.

BDF @ 61 Cheating is not the issue for UITM. [He does not consider the sexting (if that is extent of it) to be cheating.] Truthfulness is. He feels Mary lied to him for 10 years. Lying for 10 years is generally considered to be deception. He is trying to decide if he was betrayed, which depends on what had/is happening and whether (and to what degree) he can believe Mary. It could be something other than sex like gambling

UITW - disagree with Dan, broken trust is not to be ignored or taken lightly. Ms UITW is not as honest as UITW thought. He needs to decide whether he is OK with the relationship presently, it's changed, he needs some time to decide whether he is comfortable with his current marriage. It is much easier to pretend it never happened, divorce is often easier, than to regain trust. Cause it takes time.. If you don't give away trust thoughtlessly in foolhardy hope.. trust is formed by consistency over time. The more actions she takes to demonstrate her trustworthiness, the quicker rebuilding trust might go. Offering her phone unasked, offering her feelings about the situation, about her attraction to others, and about sexual commitment, offering to drop or completely share about Jeremy, offering couples counseling, showing renewed commitment to their shared goals, etc

SWAT - I agree you need to tell her how you feel about her and agree to something that works for both of you or separate. Arousal problems can happen with age, poor circulation, major health problems, depression, performance anxiety, or unsatisfying stimulation. It is nice to rule out health problems. But the ED is likely dependent on the emotional situation with this woman and not something you could cure yourself before the next "date". It would be nice to address this with her before rejecting the sex but I think it's polite enough to end things here with "this isn't working for me" if you want.

HRT - it is weird to end a long term relationship out of the blue. Usually there is some problem that cannot be resolved. You liked her enough to marry her at some point and now you don't like her as a person. Something changed, something caused this problem. Although you can always end a relationship simply because you want to.. A pattern of refusing to address problems until the situation becomes completely untenable will not serve you well if you'd like long term commitment.

Congrats in advance, once again to this week's Lucky @69 winner!

Griz update: I have been bruning the candle at both ends, performing in the pit orchestra for a local musical production, and down to my final week of my online one-certification program in Scoring andArranging for Film and Television. So I haven't had a lot of time to read and comment this week. I hope to catch up in this next week's installment of Savage Love. I hope to find sustainable employment in my field soon. At least I'm keeping up in studies and music and getting A's and B's. Meanwhile, the lovely sunshine is most welcome, and my beloved VW and I have surely been enjoying it. We hope you have, too.
Hugs, positrons and VW beeps,
XO,
griz

@66: "Bruning"?! Good grief, and I'm not even drunk! I meant "burning".
I guess I should consume more Cabernet Sauvignon. Oddly, that's when my typing improves.
Red, red wiiiiiine........stay close to meeeeeee.......

And the winner is.................

Me snicker

Seriously, Mary has a stark choice between Jeremy or her husband, who is more important to her. If she stays with her husband and tries to continue with Jeremy, she will continue to remind him of her long term lies and deceit (and her ability and willingness to do so). Rebuilding trust is not possible while you remind someone that they aren't trust worthy. if she feels resentment towards her husband for having to choose or for having to give up Jeremy then a divorce is the best course of action. If she is unwilling or unable to give up Jeremy then divorce is the best course of action.

Skeptic @63: "you do not get to decide what an emotional affair is, your SO does." Yes, this is why Mary should have disclosed. Maybe not on the third or fourth date, as Dan said, but certainly when they got serious enough to decide to be monogamous / engaged. Her responsibility then was either to share this quasi-relationship with UITM or tell Jeremy she'd gotten serious with someone else and they had to stop with the flirting. We agree that her secrecy is the issue; we only disagree whether a word like "betrayal" is appropriate given the nature of the fairly innocuous thing she was hiding. Honestly, if I were Mary, if my husband said "you've hidden this from me and I feel hurt," I'd see his point and feel guilty, but if he said "you betrayed me" I would think he was being ridiculous. UITM has downplayed this so far, which hasn't worked, but neither will exaggerating it.

Philo @65: My guess is that NRE is what caused HRT to want to marry his girlfriend, and now it's worn off, he sees that all he liked about her was the fact that she liked him. If they aren't having either physical or verbal intimacy, his Dear John speech won't be out of the blue.

Griz @66: Typos aside, sounds like you're happy and productive! Hugs back at you.

Skeptic @69: Congratulations on the lucky number!

BDF @ 71 Thank you, also see my post @ 64 UITM has not yet decided if he has been betrayed. If it is sexting only with Jeremy as Mary says, then no. If there is something more than possibly yes. Yes, maybe, if Mary admits more when pressed, says or does something to make suspicious, or if UITM evidence of something more. He will feel fear of the unknown until he is satisfied that he knows the "truth". They need marriage counselling to explain to Mary that UITM is not being unreasonable when continues to question her. He has to process 10 years of lies and deceit. He is also going to be hyper suspicious, hyper vigilant for a long time.

As to whether it is an emotional affair, that will be determined when UITM demands she sever all contact with Jeremy. She can still sext, just not with Jeremy. If she is unwilling or unable
to end all contact with Jeremy or if she is resentful then yes it is an emotional affair. It is best if she voluntarily severs all contact with Jeremy (I hope she understands why that is necessary). Second best is if she readily severs all contact upon demand by UITM. She needs to adopt a damage control mode and understand that her sole concern has to be the repair the damage done to her marriage. I am not optimistic given the duration (and probable frequency) of the sexting. Generally sexting is relatively short term, sexting for well over10 years tends to require of some degree of emotional attachment.

Sexting is more than harmless flirtation or just an innocuous thing. Sexting is a form of sex making Jeremy a sex partner. Is it sexting, cybersex, cam sex, real time simulation of sex, role play, fantasy. Does it involve masturbation? Does she know what Jeremy looks like (clothed or otherwise) Does Jeremy know what she looks like (clothed or otherwise) Sexually explicit photos (whether they've been sent or are just on her (hackable) phone or computer) can be problematical. It is best to assume that they will become public. That may or may not be a problem for Mary and/or UITM.

A lot depends on why Mary is sexting. Some possibilities that may that are less harmful (I hesitate to call it beneficial since that requires a subjective value judgment) Since it predates her relationship with UITM, it wasn't caused by anything in her marriage, but it may have continued because of something(s) in her marriage.

Is she satisfying a kink through fantasy that she doesn't want to experience in the real world or with her husband. A kink that she thought would be harmful to her marriage, hurt her husband, or lessen her in her husband's eyes. (That is no longer a factor since UITM has read at least some of the texts. Personally I would insist on seeing all of the texts and any and everything else. In other words full disclosure) Is sexting as an alternative to real life cheating? Does she consider Jeremy a real person or just an interactive fantasy?

Opening the marriage is not a possibility. Although I wonder if UITM would have a problem with Mary being with women as opposed to men.

All of my previous posts presumed some form of an affair since that is more likely than any alternative.

BDF - I think if you're getting NRE for people you don't really like, that's a deeper problem than conflict avoidance. Maybe self hatred? Or hating humanity in general?

Philo @74: Or being blinded by lust? Seriously, you never met anyone you thought was amazing until you got to know them? And in retrospect thought, gosh, what was I thinking? Yes, that's more a teenage thing, but remember these two folks are trans -- being on their new hormones means they're experiencing puberty for the first time. I don't think meeting someone who's attractive and charming at first glance and getting swept away by hormones is indicative of anything but hormones.

@75

My thought about HRT wasn't the overwhelming tide of hormones but of having a level playing field (you're trans, I'm trans) and coming to a hasty conclusion (we're "perfect" for each other). Some time later, that commonality doesn't sustain the reality of the relationship, especially when conflicts arise.

Still, I feel sorry for them, especially when Step 1 (we've grown apart and I no longer am attracted) automatically leads to Step 2 (break up). Whatever happened to trying to regain the attraction?

@69 a skeptic and a cynic: Congrats on scoring this week's Lucky @69! May you be showered upon with golden caramel Snickers bars.
@71 BiDanFan: Your turn--hugs, positrons, and VW beeps right back!

Thank you AG, but hold the Snickers, I'm allergic to peanuts

Does Dan ever get follow up letters? The ones like UITM's are cliff hanger that leave you hanging by the final season episode of a TV show that is subsequently cancelled.

Helenka @76: Yes, that too. I dated a trans woman who fell way too hard for me, thinking I was "perfect" partly because she had never previously met anyone who accepted her for the gender she was. No doubt there is a mutual element of that in HRT's relationship.

Skeptic @79: Why would you want a follow-up when you've written the entire story yourself?

BDF @ 80 Everything that I and everyone else have posted here is speculation. I am interested in the outcome. Sometimes a LW will enter the discussion and clarify/expand on what they put in their letter.

Validation of my perception is always appreciated.

and not ravings of a demented mind. LOL Generally you know you are sane if you question your sanity.

@71. Bi. I would chime with your sense of what constitutes 'betrayal'.

Clearly for some people, though, emotional cheating, even through a long correspondence of sexy texts, is as bad as physical cheating. I would wonder why this is--perhaps because their experience of past hurt has been that the lies have rankled much more than the thought, or circumstance, of actual infidelity. It is completely right to take this mindset seriously, so that someone in a relationship is guided by their partner's conception of what it is to cheat. Speaking personally I'm not sure there's any way I could give up 'window-shopping' on Grindr. (Many actual Grindr interactions--'show me your dick!'--I find, by contrast, grinding and antipathetic...). This would mean that I would find myself only in certain sorts of relationship-structures. But I agree, in this case, with anyone who says that Mary needs to sit down and consider her priorities. It would not be over-sensitive for the LW to demand that the sexting had to stop.

Skeptic @80: Yes, we all engage in some degree of projection, but mate, you ought to work in a movie theatre. And you're gonna have to look elsewhere for validation. Sorry, but the letter writer himself has clearly stated -- no projection necessary -- that he WOULDN'T consider having a sext buddy a "betrayal," so long as he knew about it. When projection contradicts stated facts, that's when we know we're talking [only] about ourselves, and that's not terribly useful.

BDF @ 85 How many times do I have say that sexting is not an issue for UITM, if that is all that it is, but he is having a hard time believing that it is

"She says she has never met him in person (despite communicating with him for more than a decade!) and this was the only thing she was doing that she thought would have been out of bounds."

"I do not want to snoop and I want to trust her, but I am having a hard time with both. Prior to this, it never occurred to me that Mary would do anything that had a whiff of dishonesty about it. But her having kept this from me for as long as I have known her has made me question that. I don't want to keep bringing this up to her, but I am struggling with it."

This is not me projecting anything. After 10 years of lies and deception there is no way he is going to accept what she says at face value and that is the crux of the matter. How does Mary prove that what she says at this point is true? This was her one chance to come clean and save her marriage. UITM wants desperately to believe her. I hope she chose wisely.

As it is, she has thrown away something priceless, UITM's (naïve) absolute trust and faith in her. I do hope that, whatever it was/is, is worth the price she has paid and the undeserved pain she has caused.

As to validation, that was probably a poor choice of word on my part. Confirmation that how I interpreted the contents of the letter was accurate, somewhat accurate or inaccurate. What I mean by betrayal is the betrayal of trust which is separate and distinct from infidelity. In that sense, Mary has betrayed UITM's trust through her lies and deception. I really doesn't what the lies and deception were about.

@57: If someone needs a "sanity-saving, carefully sequestered and electronic-only flirtation" in order to stay in a relationship with me, they can GTFO. I deserve better and in the absence of actual evidence to the contrary, so does UITM. Let's stop with the unwarranted victim blaming.

And ten years of dishonesty isn't a "workaround" for a healthy relationship.