Savage Love Nov 13, 2018 at 4:00 pm

Bound and Gagging

Joe Newton

Comments

1

Quick note for TIED: a munch is "a low-pressure, social gathering at a restaurant or pub for people into BDSM." (Thanks, Urban Dictionary!). You can talk to people about their experiences (kinky and otherwise) and you might find out about good classes to attend, but there's usually no formal speaker or teacher.

For FEMDOM, I would say that when one has young children, one looks for shortcuts. Get a comfy blindfold, put a few favorite dildos, gloves, and lube in a drawer you can reach easily from the bed, and skip the dress up, stilettoss, collars, and cuffs most of the time. Try to find some sexy lines you can use while fucking his ass with the dildo -- and if strapping it on is a hassle, hold the dildo in your hand while you fuck him.

And make it clear that once the kids are older and you both have more mental energy for sex, you do enjoy the whole dress-up thing and look forward to getting back into it.

2

FEMDOM once a year sounds pretty infrequent even for 40-somethings with kids. Once every 3 months?

3

Thank you, Dan, for already beating me to the perfect response to SAM: DTMFA.

4

"...no woman in her right mind is going to let a man she's never met tie her up in a hotel room...." You can say that again, Dan! TIED, listen to Dan and Justin Gorbey for BDSM advice.

5

For this week's Savage Love: Bound and Gagging, because nobody reached the Lucky @69 Award last week (What Ain't Broke), and in honor of HUMP, Griz offers a two-fer Double @69 Award this week.

6

@5: ....unless somebody proves me wrong in last week's SL.

7

For TIED, I just want to reiterate Dan's and Gorbey's advice and tell you to PLEASE educate yourself before tying any woman up. I've met guys at play parties who have no idea what they're doing in terms of BDSM and are just looking for an easy lay (forget it!) and they are a pain in the ass. Most, if not all kinky women stay the hell away from guys like that, so don't be that guy. Put the time and energy into attending munches AND any available local BDSM workshops on rope and tying. A lot of cites have rope/tying groups you can join in order to develop your skills in that area and to meet like-minded folks. Check out Fetlife for that. If you go to to munches, workshops or parties, be honest about your skill level and newness to the scene - people respect that and generally want to help you feel welcome and help you learn. If you need a mentor, don't have that mentor be a woman you're trying to score with. Good luck to you!

8

Judge: Young man, if you don't answer the question, we'll have to gag you.
YM: What question?
J: Gag him!
Prosecutor: Who was that lady I saw you with last night?
YM: That was no lady! That was Bottles!

9

Munches are a good recommendation for TIED. Another one for anyone with an "I've always wanted to..." fantasy is a sex worker. He can then get some practice before meeting the bondage loving lady of his dreams at a munch. (I bet most of the women on Bondage Singles are in fact sex workers; if sites like these are where they've gone after being driven off Craigslist, more power to them! But men like TIED should be aware of the financial nature.)

Agree that SAM should DTMFA.

FEMDOM sounds like a crap shag -- "I just want to get it over with"? Poor Mr FEMDOM. I sympathise: kinky sex does take longer than a vanilla quickie, but so does dinner and a movie, and I bet they still go on these kinds of dates sometimes. Surely they can get a babysitter (more often than once a year!!) and instead of getting dressed up for an evening out, get dressed up for an evening in. They could also try that wonderful thing, compromise. Take my word: it's possible to engage in a pegging session that doesn't require one's partner to be cross-dressed and/or tied up and takes less than a weekend to accomplish. Also, there are ways to make it less time-consuming for you. Order him to go get himself dressed up while you, I dunno, put the kids to bed, and have him wear a butt plug so that you can start out with a larger dildo. FEMDOM says she's "thoroughly enjoyed" the few times she's done this; why isn't she setting aside time for something "thoroughly enjoyable" which would make her husband happy?

10

Chris111 @7: Great advice. Few things are more laughable than "doms" who have no idea what they are doing. He should be honest about his lack of experience, which is going to be obvious anyway.

11

TIED needs to stop looking for instant hookups, and if need be, establish a suspension of disbelief with women he gets to know who are into his kink. SAM needs to run, because, Dan's instincts are correct, she is being used. And lastly, FEMDOM, who needs to reassess her entire relationship. You have the hardest goal of all of these LWs, because you seek to overcome what you already knew about your husband, and now there are children involved. Asking if you're willing to do more for his sexual desires is one thing, but if you're not, you have some hard, and unenviable decisions to make.

12

Give me some perspective here. I read SAM's letter about how her boyfriend ignores her, doesn't satisfy her sexually, goes off with others, has no energy left for her, and refuses counseling. It makes me think of what could be a letter to a 60s era advice columnist where a lonely wife says her husband doesn't cheat on her but does go out drinking with the guys every night (or watches sports and literally hasn't spoken to her in years). The stuff about monogamy and monogamish and bondage and anal seem to me red herrings in what's really a very old dynamic. Do we ever get anything where the sexes are reversed? Did we ever see men saying that their wives (in letters to Ann Landers) or their girlfriends (in letters to Dan) are awful in all those ways and they want advice on what else they might try but apparently haven't thought that they can get the hell out of the relationship?

13

Once a year--for FEMDOM? He deserves more. And is probably getting less. She wants sex 'just to be over with'. Likes it, but only in a conventional and specific form. Is he pulling his weight with domestic duties? Looking after the kids? If he is, she should either set aside time for pegging or give him a tightly negotiated pass.

14

FEMDOM. Three words. Weekly cleaning service.

15

Antiserumite. Why 'unenviable'? The word, or idea, plays into the narrative that people instinctively resist allowing their partner to have sex with others. I prefer the narrative that it is mature--'advanced'--to accept that we can't all be all things for our s.o.s, sexually or in relationship terms or terms of interests; that we should be loving, and duly take, in those areas of our joint lives where we want the same things, or share an interest, and let the rest go. FEMDOM is a wife and coparent and cohabitant and vanilla-bonding-sex partner with her husband. She just isn't, by inclination, his domme. She should let that part of his life go and negotiate the terms on which he can gratify it without her.

16

Antiserumite @11: What do you mean by TIED having to suspend his disbelief?

17

Ms Fichu - I can recall such a few from the days of high alimony, but would agree that one rarely saw such flaunted sense of being trapped. It calls to mind a weird comparison with what seem to be called "escape rooms", which I've only heard described in vague terms.

18

TIED's letter is too short to be sure, and hopefully they're just super-young/naive, but if not such major ignorance (about this) seems beyond creepy to me.

(Thank goodness BiDanFan is back!)

19

Harriet @13: If FEMDOM wants her partner to pull more weight with domestic duties or looking after the kids, she simply needs to command him to do so, and then give him a flogging/pegging for good measure. That's how it works, if only she'd take it on.

20

L3 is a barrister's dream. I could argue any side of that letter. [NOTE: "He sounds selfish; she sounds selfish," makes rather a good tongue-twister.] The letter is vague enough to let one run with the idea that H3 when indulged is a massively bossy bottom while LW3 does all the dressing up and the work of the encounter. Or one could easily paint the sad plight of poor H3 as knowing he's just another item for LW3 to check off on her chore list. Or one could contend that they seem about equally (un)happy, or are equally good or bad spouses. If they weren't already married, it would be tempting to give the letter a CMY.

And the nature of "thoroughly enjoying" something could provide a lengthy cross-examination all on its own.

21

FEMDOM is giving herself waaay too much credit for being GGG. If her husband was into kayaking, or rock climbing, or horseback riding, or any other activity that required a few hours without the kids, she would probably be indulging his interests several times a year, not a few times in 14 years.

22

How many letters have we had in the past month that boil down to "or sex life has tapered off with time", but at uneven rates, leaving one partner wet up?

Dan, I winner if you're failing your LWs. I imagine their writing in for two reasons: for advice I how to kick start their partners sex drive, or for permission to end the relationship. Lately, you've been advising the latter... But that's not helpful to the lw's who are staying for a number of other legitimate reasons. Also, as a reader, DTMFA gets old. Why publish those letters so often is the answer is so rote?

23

FEMDOM needs to take a closer look at what is making her tired and what is being prioritized. If she is willing to do the work of his sexual kinks, is he willing to do the work of childcare and home care that she would otherwise be doing that day? If that's not enough of a trade off, what else needs to be done? Is she doing more than she can handle on a regular basis, so sex is /always/ "too much work"? It sounds like it. And please note that it isn't about splitting chores "evenly"; it's about splitting them /equitably/, so that both partners have energy for other things, especially each other. Before menopause, women often physically require more hours of sleep than men do - is she getting enough? Modern life is often hard on everyone's sleep schedule - is either of them getting enough?

And if he isn't willing to do a larger share of the regular workload in acknowledgement that his kinks require /work/, then there's a more serious issue of disrespect going on. And that needs to be dealt with. A lot of fetishists get so much delight out of their fetish that they honestly do not understand the effort needed by others to accommodate them - enjoying their joy makes it worthwhile, but it doesn't reduce the energy needed to do it. This may need to be explained... repeatedly.

24

@22 - I think you've inadvertently stumbled on something here....the same thing that Fichu in @12 alluded to...the problems are rote, the trappings superfluous, all similar only in their mundanity. What does that say about us (as humans)? Maybe that this is the best and most evolved thing we can come up with, but it is still boring tripe, no matter how many artificial layers of complexity we paper it with?

25

Fichu @12 - yes, I've seen many letters complaining that a wife says yes to everyone (work, kids, PTA, church, etc.) but won't make time for him. And that he feels like a co-parent but not like a romantic partner.

26

Curious @18: Thanks! :-D

Sporty @22: How many years has Dan been doing this? Perhaps there just aren't enough unique problems experienced by humans in the realm of their sex/love lives. Perhaps the solution for most people who are desperate enough to write in is indeed DTMFA -- should Dan ignore these letters? He is in the business of advice, after all, and many times that's the advice people most need to hear.

Another common theme of these letters, as Fichu @12 alluded, is that if you strip out the kink they are just mundane relationship problems. FEMDOM's problem, if you strip out the kink, is, "We have two young children and our sex life has suffered." This is such a common problem as to lead me to believe one should EXPECT that having kids means farewell, sex. At least these two seem ahead of the curve by still having vanilla sex; the typical complaint is hardly any sex at all. So what's the answer to the mundane "now that we have children, our sex life has tanked"? A combination of accepting that there will be less time and energy for sex and other hobbies, and a commitment to put more effort into making the time. Venn @20 makes a good point: will Mr FEMDOM accept nothing less than a three-hour session with all the bells and whistles? If so, he's being unrealistic about the energy levels needed for domination (and I say this as someone who really enjoys doing this stuff). Like I said, compromise: he gets tied up, OR he gets pegged, OR he gets foreplay in stilettos. A few times a year, they get a sitter and he gets all of the above. And he makes an effort to meet HER needs too -- sexual or otherwise.

27

Start slow with the binding idea: suggest hands lightly tied to bedposts by mens' silk ties. That seems kinky without being risky, and hopefully your choice of company will evolve and explore with you.

28

Hubby knew early in their courtship that she was not a Dom and he decided anyway to marry someone who would only very rarely indulge his kink. I think it's very unrealistic to suggest the LW should start being a Dom now, and I don't see how that makes her selfish or not GGG. The letter also does not say that the husband is complaining or demanding anything. Nor does the wife complain about being overworked or doing chores. For people without this inclination, having to order someone around just sounds like more work. Nor does she say their sex life has suffered. They are busy (working parents usually are) and she says that she the vanilla sex they have is great but that she wants to get it over with. To me, that sounds like just the thought of having to work up to the time-consuming kink is exhausting- she'd rather just have vanilla sex which is fulfilling and fast.

She's asking how she can be motivated to indulge his kink more often in this otherwise successful marriage because she loves him and knows he likes it. So I don't see how this is a marriage in crisis requiring a bunch of re-evaluation.

The solution Dan suggests is the most obvious, and it is my advice as well only I'd say bump it up to 3 times a year though that might be ambitious at first. Maybe they only have the opportunity for a prolonged weekend get away once a year, but have some shorter planned kink sessions at home in between.

The second is the option of letting him seek his kink elsewhere. They'd have to weigh the pros with the cons- so they need to sit down and talk about how they feel about it. It might be a relief to both of them. Or- whether or not they decide he should see an outside Dom- it might not solve the problem. The LW wants to get into the mindset of doing this thing for her man because she knows he loves it. The husband might still crave this from his wife.

I think addressing the logistics of scheduling the kink sessions would also answer her question about motivation.

Part of the motivation of scheduling it ahead of time is the relief of having it off the menu the rest of the time- really low pressure but still satisfying regular vanilla sex can be a great thing when you are busy, and the pressure of the potential expectations of something longer or more physical can prevent some of us for even starting. Also the possibility for disappointment is gone ("it didn't happen again"). Plus they can play up the anticipation of their next upcoming kink ("you know what I'm going to do to you next time we get these kids out of the house") etc. As to the kink sessions themselves, if it's actually on the schedule, it will not feel like a chore tagged on to the end of a long day but rather a planned event. Then the natural motivation of his pleasure and her role in providing it will be more immediate since she won't have to work through the feeling of the chore. This also should remove any guilt she feels about it which will probably be a relief to her too.

29

re FEMDOM - I wonder what he does to accomodate a desire of hers. She might be more inclined to indulge him if it went both ways. Yes part of the solution is for her to indulge his kink at least occasionally, but it would help if they traded off - one night off is dedicated to her - he ups his share of the workload so she can relax, gives her a massage, etc. Maybe he's already doing this, but I'm willing to bet good money that he's not. Also, if the issue is that they're busy and it's hard to find time, the onus is on him to find a way to clear the schedule and her stress level when he wants to be pegged.

I think @26 is right in that this is a classic relationship issue. Needs aren't being met with the introduction of kids. With 14 years under their belt they should be able to talk this thing out, honestly say what they want and how they feel, and then come to a mutually beneficial solution.

30

The way he wrote about his desire to tie up a woman was verging on creepy -like "gotta a tie up a woman ANY WOMAN with no consideration of her as a human!!" But if he'd been approaching it more normally then I think the hardcore advice to really get full throttle into a kink community seemed kind of over the top. Don't most people experiment with low stakes aspects of their kinks with willing partners they've met through regular ol' dating then go from there? Getting tied up is such a mild kink -if we're talking about just binding the arms and/or legs- it wouldn't be that crazy hard to just find someone to date who would be into it. If he wants to suspend ladies with elaborate Japanese rope typing, yeah he'd gotta get an education. But starting out small, putting the kink cards on the table early, and being respectful and cool would be less intimidating advice then go become an active member of a kink community for a kink you've never even tried!

31

@22 New readers come all the time, and it's nice to be regularly reminded that some people just need to be removed from our lives.

32

One nice thing about Dan's column as opposed to whatever the modern day equivalent to Ann Landers is that Dan doesn't usually get sidetracked by kink or non-monagamy. I imagine (though I don't really know) that if Dear Abby or the like got letters like Dan gets she'd stay stuck on the part about cheating or the part about weird sex and wouldn't see through to the (dull, ageless) heart of the matter.

As for having children killing sex, I see hope in the way sex is slowly moving towards being seen as important to people's overall health. Where the advice to parents used to be save up for a sitter so they can go out for a nice dinner on their anniversary, I'd like to see it become acceptable common knowledge that grandparents spend the night twice a month so the parents can get a hotel in town. No need to spell out what they're doing and in what positions, just a shoulder shrug acknowledgement that parents need time for that, and the community should support it.

33

Yeah but what I'm trying to say is that this isn't a case in which they had all this kinky sex, then kids, now too tired, so no time for his kink.

This is a case in which his kink was rarely ever on the table, even in their early honeymoon courtship, and now it is even less on the table. The vanilla sex- no complaints there, just that she prefers it to be fast since they are so busy. That might be a change- perhaps before kids, their vanilla sex was longer or more exciting. Seems normal that working parents would mostly have short sex (better than normal if it's regular and still fulfilling), but the letter isn't about improving their sex life after children. The letter is about finding the motivation to begin indulging her husband in a kink that she knows he has. This is something she's rarely done before. The addition of kids (busy schedule) just means she's even less motivated to do it now, but it's not like it was a regular feature of their sex life ever. They've only done this a few times.

Therefore I feel more optimistic about this marriage than most of you seem to be. The point of view I see is, this is a mostly happy functional marriage with a fulfilling sex life- practical in the since that they are busy working parents and so most of their vanilla sex is not prolonged, but still she says it's fulfilling for them. And this wife, as they are in the years that are often dry for working parents, is asking how she can spice things up by finding the motivation to indulge her husband in a kink that really gets him off. There are no complaints here about their current sex, no hints that the husband is desperate or neglected or demanding, no suggestion that she feels overwhelmed with her share of household chores, nothing like that. Just a wife thinking that she'd like to make things hotter for her husband. That's a good sign. She's asking for practical advice- how do I get motivated to do this, alternately how do we consider an outsider.

34

BTW the husband has agency here too. It might be that he's long suffering and neglected, but the wife's letter does not suggest that. It sounds more like this is something he likes. He would really like to get it. When he does (rarely) it's super hot for him. But there's nothing in this letter about this being a priority in his life or that he's asking for it or trying to negotiate how to get it or that he's unsatisfied. They've been together a long long time, and their few explorations of his kink started during their early courtship and never were a regular feature, so he chose to not prioritize this in his life and get married to someone who is not a dom anyway. It's possible that he has changed his mind or that the kink has become even more important or that he had no other choice or any number of depressing things, but since she does not say anything about him asking for it or expressing frustration or anything negative at all, it does make me wonder if this is simply what he considers a super hot cherry on top of his already fulfilling (though practical, this is real life, working parents and all) relationship sundae. She's not asking, "how do I save my marriage when my frustrated husband is longing desperately for a kink that I cannot satisfy". She's asking "how do I motivate my busy and naturally not-a-dom self into indulging my husband in this thing that I know he finds very hot".

35

Also I think we get so many letters from folks that have a kink that is central to their lives and sexual health that we start approaching all of them that way. Since we can't talk to the hubby, we don't know for sure, but the LW never calls it his kink. She calls it his "interest" and his "fantasy" and that it really does it for him. It sounds like something he really likes and would no doubt want more of, and the wife is realizing that she wishes she could do it for him but it seems like a chore or she's just not motivated. So asking for advice. This doesn't mean the man is long-suffering or that his wife is shit in bed or any of those things. It just means there's some stuff he finds really fucking hot that he'd like more of, and he mostly doesn't get it. Which sure, that sucks, but it's also totally normal in life- I doubt there are any of us who get everything we want even most of the time, and even less so when our lives are structured around the needs of others (children, two careers) than if we are single and free-wheeling. It could very well be a compromise that he has made peace with.

Also being GGG means you try a thing, which she did, not that you continue to do it if you aren't into it. She's in a middle ground- she's not turned off by it, she doesn't hate it, she even finds his pleasure exciting. She just doesn't feel motivated to do it. She didn't trick him into a marriage with expectations that this would be a regular feature- it never was. He knew that going in. Therefore, the "right" thing to do, since she loves him and wants him to have pleasure, is to figure out how to motivate herself to do this for him from time to time. And that's what she's asking for- advice on how to do that. I agree with Dan re: scheduling ahead of time.

So I'd say it's an optimistic situation. If things are pretty good already, then they will probably become excellent with this addition.

Sorry for the repeated posts but I had a hell of a week, and then a nice afternoon today. Plus as a long time married person, I totally get the need to schedule big hot sexy times and then just enjoy shorter but fulfilling "get through it" intimacy in between. I see that sounds depressing to single people. It's not, actually, or at least it shouldn't be. When you know someone's body very well and there's a lot going on in life, it's an immense relief to have someone right there available to you that you can share pleasure with nearly immediately. The intimacy makes it intense, and the familiarity makes it easy. You really don't need loads of time. But this can become dull if you don't sprinkle in more exciting and longer and more adventuresome times together in between- a few times a year or you'll fall into a rut. Sounds like that's all this couple needs, and more power to them.

36

FetLife is good for finding events in your area, and I would suggest that TIED look for Shibari classes and rope groups. Meet people knowledgeable what he’s interested in doing so he can watch and learn, and make friends. He should also consider paying for one-on-one lessons from someone in his area that is highly experienced.

Beyond that, he should go to parties in the public play scene. He’s more likely to find an interested rope bunny willing to play with him in a public space than finding someone willing to play with him alone.

37

@24 I stumbled into some bad, AM-on-my-phone spelling too

@12 we do get those letters, Dan doesn't publish them especially often, but the "I have a headache tonight" joke is based on the gender-flipped version of this.

@26 in the 90s, this column was WILD. More focused on semi-extreme, less well known sex acts than the column is currently. Of course, back then being gay was kind of extreme and wild all on it's own, and poly was unheard of in public discourse, anal sex was considered... unusual. Now that being gay is essentially boring and lame and hella nomies are having kinky sex, the column follows suit (not a diss, that's just time). Worth noting that Dan was 31 or so when this column started and he's 54 now, so his own interest in the odd cases and extreme things has probably lessened as well. But no, to answer your questions, humans aren't even close to so limited in the types of shit we get up to that there's nothing new for us (specifically, those that have been reading it for > 20 years) to read about. Hell I could write 5-10 novel SLLOTD submissions myself that have only been grazed upon by articles past, I'm sure you and EmmaLiz any many others could do likewise.

38

@26; Fan, no .. having kids doesn’t mean farewell sex. Erica has kids, I had sex the whole of my marriage and had many kids. It does change things, and one has to find creative ways of maintaing erotic interest in each other. A joint or a glass of wine can help to loosen one up.
With small children, yes; they take up much of the space, and parents need to adapt a little and see that as the child/ ren grow, the adults can find more private time. It’s up to them to keep adapting to the children growing up, being creative sexually, if the relationship has withstood the work involved.
You may be happy with the daily question today Sportlandia, though it may not be one you can identify with.

39

LavaGirl @38 - one has to find creative ways, yes. And when the kids are young one has to find efficient ways. And it doesn't have to just be vanilla, missionary position. (Not saying you were saying it did!).

My bet is that he'd like to receive anal sex even without the dressing up and bondage. And pegging doesn't take any longer than PIV, if you have towels handy and don't mind a little mess on the toys (which she doesn't mention, so she doesn't seem to mind).

40

I agree that the Q&A seems more repetitive for the weekly columns. The question of the day seems a little more varied. But I also miss the days of guys wanting to do coke and give head to a woman while she talks on the phone.

But to the questions at hand: LW2 seems like the type of person most guys would love to be with (at least sexually) so does need to dump this jerk and move on to someone who pays attention to her. Anecdotally, most people I know who complain about their partners complain about lack of sex. LW2 wants more sex.

LW3 reflects a big problem for me: I don't want to do it but I don't want you to go elsewhere. It's one or the other. And as was posted earlier, you don't need to dress up every time. C'mon how long do those clothes even stay on? If she just walks in the room with a harness and a bid dildo dangling, her dude is going to be so turned on. Then spend some time working up to that big dildo. But, yeah, kids can be sex killers. Still there's a lot of time if you work on it. If not, send him to see someone else. Time or money. It's always one or the other.

41

For TIED, I don’t think it’s crazy to imagine meeting a woman into mild-medium kink on a dating/hookup app. Yes, if you want to get into super complicated suspension stuff you should definitely take a class or something, but for less varsity level kink, the key is to demonstrate that you are intelligent, sane, respectful, and have her best interests at heart. I have a play partner now that I met on an app who just does everything right - we chatted about life enough for me to get a sense that he’s a functional adult, about kink enough to establish some trust and expectations, he was the one to suggest meeting in public first...everything about our communication told me that he was experienced, mature, decent - and when we met in person he seemed exactly the same as over text. I have had some deeply satisfying (kinky) experiences with him and have always felt safe with him even though we don’t have a relationship outside of our shared kink.

42

I agree surfrat, how hard is it to put on the attire, smoke a wee joint or whatever, get into the groove, and give her man what he would like. It’s a game, just a game, and parents should remember they need to play sometimes too.
I’d suggest once a month at least, if not once a fortnight, put the kids to bed or better send them off for the night if grandparents around and willing, and make a production of it. Get that man on his knees for a bit, using the crop, so he knows who the boss is.
Play a part, LW, like it’s a scene for a play you’re rehearsing. Find a little distance from this man, otherwise known as your husband, and that’s where the erotic charge will generate from. You might find you like it after all.

43

I’m not suggesting you use the crop to hit the man, otherwise known as your husband, LW; hit the bed around him, play a bit. Maybe fix the room, put some dark fabric around, whatever colour suits your idea of your inner Domme. Pretend or otherwise, we can all assume different guises.
it is hard to turn off the ‘family’ story at the end of the day, or whenever you can give this to your husband. Especially with little kids, always in your face and making mess and crying and not sleeping all night, and the washing etc.
Being a single parent would be harder, so maintaining a satisfying to both sexual life with your husband is important. If he’s a good husband and father, count your blessings.

44

@26 BiDanFan and Sporty @37: Wow, the memories. Savage Love has been going for about 23 years (since 1995). I'm in Dan's age group and have indeed read some wild discussion threads in Savage Love. The first ones I ever read were in the printed weekly edition in the break room while at AIS on Elliott Avenue.
@43 LavaGirl: Agreed. While there are many out there doing just fine despite terrible odds, I can't imagine being a single parent. By the way, did your son help you upload my other two mp3s that I sent you?

45

EmmaLiz: I slightly -- but only slightly -- disagree with your analysis. The letter is self-contradictory (she "thoroughly enjoyed" their kinky play and she "doesn't hate" it? That's a big gulf), but it reads to me as if:
He disclosed his kinks early. (Good!)
She agreed to participate with him. (Good!)
She "thoroughly enjoyed" the experience. (Great!)
They upped their game by adding "a variety" of toys -- presumably the play got more elaborate, and time-consuming, with each rare but fun scene.
At the time they married, Mr FEMDOM, through a combination of her GGGness, enjoyment of same, and the all-powerful wishful thinking, probably concluded that his kinks would be indulged occasionally. Alas, with the advent of kids and the increase in "pageantry," FEMDOM grew to see kinky sex as a time sink rather than a fun way to spend an evening, and can't find any motivation to put the effort in. I agree 100% that the mundane advice of "schedule date nights" is appropriate here, for all the reasons you describe.

Sporty @37: Dan has run a letter asking your exact question -- why are his columns now so tame when once they featured a veritable freakshow of bizarre kinks -- and the answer is Google. In the 90s, people with unusual fetishes wrote to Dan about them, now they type them into search engines and answer their own questions. So all he's really left with are "my wife won't fuck me" and "I'm dating an abusive asshole, what do I do?" letters. Perhaps that's why he publishes reruns from women dating dog fuckers and the like. By all means, feel free to try to liven things up by writing to him yourself!

46

@20. Venn. I am a lawyer, and the last thing I want to do is lawyer the letters. I want to say what I think is right and maybe helpful.

@19. fubar. I guess it turns on the definition of 'GGG'. She says that when he reveals his desires to be bottomed early in their courtship, '[she] GGG'ed them'. This seems to mean that she didn’t shame him for them. They've only pegged a 'few' times. In this context, I think it might be useful to be wildly specific and arbitrary, as an advice-giver: 'GGG means 25 times a year'. I also inferred that FEMDOMMED has only ever been pegged by his wife. Isn't that a deprivation, of a kind? Couldn't both be happier if she's relieved of the necessity of pegging him and he finds new partners?

47

@22. Sportlandia. My sense is that the usual motivation for DTMFA isn't that a partner is refusing to please a LW sexually. It’s that 'he' more widely disrespects the LW. Or sometimes--but still in relatively few cases--that the first is a subset of the second.

What advice can be given to someone who wants to kickstart their partner's failing libido? In one sense, it's obvious, and in another, slightly unworthy. Do the dishes. Help with the laundry. Listen to your partner. Suppress your irritability. Know her friends' names. Keep up with her interests. Act in a way that's committed to your both growing. In this context, I don't think sex advice is sex advice at all.

48

The point that fichu makes that I agree with is that women still--still!--seem socialised to stay in bad relationships to a greater degree than men. I don't know whether she's saying that all problems are 1950s problems, but wouldn't so much think this was the case.

When EmmaLiz gets down to proposing solutions for FEMDOM and Mr FEMDOM, I'm with her 100%.

49

48- Harriet-- We agree. I might quibble with exactly what's meant by socialization. Is it socialization or something else that makes it advantageous for women to stay in unhappy relationships because of the economic reality that gets put into the internal pro and con list? Lots of variables. I'm not saying that all problems are 1950s problems. I am noting a certain timelessness about them. Lots of exceptions.

50

I don’t think much is going to change while the nuclear family is the exinomic unit of our culture. Having to work, rear kids, meaningful sex etc and not drive each other crazy while confined in an isolated group of only two adults and x no of offspring.
I’d like to read more questions from poly people who are rearing children. Either there are not many of those or they have no problems.

51

.. while the nuclear family is the economic unit...

52

M?? Harriet - It's a rare thing to see a case on which one wouldn't care which viewpoint one had to argue, even before Mrs Justice Appleby in the Family Division (neither being favourites of Rumpole).

If this were Rumpole, I could think of three different roles in which to cast you.

53

Lava @38: Thanks for the reminder that some parents are indeed still gleefully getting it on; it's just the ones who aren't that write to Dan. These are not necessarily representative, but there sure seem to be a lot of them.

Harriet @46: "I also inferred that FEMDOMMED has only ever been pegged by his wife." How?
I don't think any regular reader of SL would interpret "good, giving and game" as merely a lack of kink-shaming. What do the "giving and game" components of GGG mean, if not participating? She may be interpreting GGG as being willing to fulfill a long-held fantasy (whether previously realised or not) rather than being willing to engage in it periodically, but the fact that she wrote in clearly conflicted about her lack of desire to do so indicates that she does realise GGG doesn't just mean ticking a box.

54

For FEMDOM, I feel compelled to ask: Where's the part where she gets something desirable to her? It's all about pleasing him. It's just like the second letter, where the woman isn't getting what she wants out of the relationship. Why are the men the center of these relationships?

55

Re FEMDOM, I agree with Dan's, and others', suggestions that they should schedule, get sitters, etc., and also that they should consider whether husband would enjoy something less than the full scene, which they could engage in more often.

As to the full scene, it seems like FEMDOM recognizes that her husband's fantasy is something that is a lot of work for her that he really enjoys. Hopefully she does other things that are work for her that he enjoys (and hopefully he does for her too). Why not treat it that way, at least to start? So maybe give it to him (good and hard) as a birthday present.

56

DCKathy @54: I wouldn't read indulging someone's kinks "a few times" over the course of a 14-year relationship as his being the centre of the relationship.

57

@56 BiDanFan: Indeed. Also note, married 14 years; presumably the relationship has gone on significantly longer (based on references to their "courtship").

58

Congrats in advance to this week's lucky Double @69 winner!

59

FEMDOM, like most mothers with small kids you are likely to be exhausted by what needs to get done every day. The common consequence of this is the feeling that sex is just another chore to get out of the way before you can relax and unwind.

How about making the kink play part of the daily routine: make him do certain chores that you currently do, but force him to do these tasks as part of a scene.

For example, make him wear a butt-plug and panties under his normal clothes, use a chastity device or a cock-ring. Make him then carry out some tasks: cleaning, getting the kids ready for bed, taking out the trash, go shopping ... he can get worked up for an hour or two while you take a bath or read a book.

When you are rested and in the mood: fuck him how you want; make him feel used; decide when he can or can't come; get off yourself and then let him get off - he'll go straight to sleep and you only have to engage in minimal effort concentrated into small bursts.

60

I thoroughly enjoy pumpkin pie. Every fucking bite. I don't hate making it, but the desire to eat pumpkin pie may only at times overcome my "meh" about making it myself. If someone has it already made?? Awesome!!!

This is not a hard concept. Truly. Both can very much be true. Get it? Yes? Good for you!

61

I like it truck2, @59. Especially the long soak in the bath while he takes the kids off to attend to errands.

62

@50 it might not be real, but Exonomic Unit is a great word. Perhaps it could be defined as the Economic Behavior of a Family Unit. IE, mama and papa bear and little bear each spend their own monies this way or that way, but if we lumped them in as a family and looked at patterns, perhaps that's their "exonomy". EG, I might spend most of my discretionary money on lad mags and chew, but my family spends most of their disposable incomes on going to T-Mobile Field together.

63

@59: Truck2, good suggestions and advice. I hope the lw reads this far into the comments.

64

@16 BiDanFan, I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that TIED’s fetish was to tie up anonymous women in very casual scenarios, given that he didn’t mention negotiating with someone he had dated. I should have elaborated that he might want to try giving someone a chance to meet him, see he isn’t dangerous, and then ask to tie them up casually in hotel rooms, wherein he could suspend his disbelief in their familiarity and comfort levels.

65

@15 Harriet_by_the_bulrushes, Whatever you think the narrative of their relationship should be, and regardless of how "advanced" it is to let a spouse get their sextracurricular needs met outside of the relationship, doesn't change the fact that LW is uncomfortable with outsourcing, and prefers looking for a way within herself to enjoy indulging her husband. That is unlikely, of course, which is why I said she has some unenviable choices/compromises ahead of her.

66

Tick.....tick......tick........

67

Anti @64: Thanks for the explanation. I read "I can never convince a woman to let me" as referring to women he's dated -- perhaps he asked too soon in the relationship, creeping them out -- but your reading may be correct. I agree that if the stranger aspect is integral, either role play as you suggest or sex worker seem the only solutions.

68

I don’t see the situation like that antiserumite@65; she did like it the few times she’s done it, over the yrs they have been together.
I wonder why suddenly it’s become an issue for her. It’s not like it’s been much of an on going activity between them. She did ask how she can motivate herself to give her husband what he wants.
Old fashioned it may be LW, you need to make the effort. Maybe purchase a new Domme wardrobe, a nice small crop. When home alone, if that ever happens, put the clothes on and practice. Check out places or books that might help generate the personna. Watch some hot porn, where the woman is really into her role, and get inspired by that.

70

@68 LavaGirl, I will say that LW's "few" times probably isn't literal, and she has likely tried to indulge her husband much more over those 14 years, but she doesn't feel like she's done enough lately. She never explicitly says that he is unsatisfied, only that she knows there are things she could do to make him happier. You may have the perfect answer to her problem, but in my experience, which is little, sometimes just grooming and asking to do whatever he wants is more effective than trying to decipher his stoicism with antics and theatrics.

71

Antics and theatrics! mite @70.
Geez, I don’t see it that way. I love Mistress Matisse, and can see what fun could be involved in playing these scenarios. Yeah right, same old same old in the bedroom like in every other room in the house.
Having a costume is part of the whole story, and if she gets her game right her husband might be satisfied for weeks, and be more than happy to enjoy vanilla times in between.
No. We’ve been asked to help; or what? They are early forties, little kids. How long before the kids grow and their youth and vitality remind husband he ain’t getting any younger, and is this all he and the missus can get together? Then hitting fifty, Dan gets another letter from her.
“ Omg Dan, why didn’t I listen to you back then! The man I married and the father of my children started going behind my back to a pro Domme, and it has created so much desire in him for the lifestyle, he’s talking of divorce..blah blah blah...”
Interesting Sportlandia @62. Sad eh, we are reduced to units.

72

not sure what it happening?

73

Is Sportlandia more relevant than other posters?

74

At forty four, the LW is still young.
LW. And don’t forget to purchase a mask.
I wouldn’t go for the latex look myself, black lace, black stockings and garters be more my choice. With a small pink crop. Black and pink go well together.. a leather get up could be good too, for when he’s not been a very good boy and harsher penalties are needed. Might need a small black crop for that.

75

What? Is Sportlandia more relevant than other posters? What are you meaning.. I was responding to a comment he made to me, about a spelling mistake I’d made.

76

@69, congrats on the stupid thing that is a thing, also, I think you make reasonable posts that I don't find entirely objectionable.

77

Whatevs Lava, Talk to me tomorrow girl!

78

Admittedly I'm projecting but I thought the key in Mr FEMDOM's fantasies was that HE gets dressed up. She can wear whatever she wants. That is the Domme's prerogative (and will certainly save her time, which is her main concern).

79

Oh really. Fan. I was enjoying myself. Still think she needs to get some costume, it does help to focus on the activity. Yes, fem/ Domme. Then send him out to buy himself new gear. Reset the kink scenes.
LW, read erotic stories. Nocute or others may be able to point you towards some decent ones.

80

Entirely correct. And very astute.

81

I don’t think time is her main concern Fan. It’s the little kids and work and.. it’s an attitude come about from too much work load. Just can’t seem to find the energy.. We read it often.
You’re a forty four ish year old woman, Fan, how do you keep your sex alive? Apart from the obvious that you don’t have kids..

82

both of you!

83

They can’t seem to find the energy when the kids are little, then it all can get a bit stuck. Routine. Woman loses desire altogether.
Yet. A lot of men can still keep an air pocket around their erotic self. Women need to do this as well. And meet their men erotically.
Or. we know where Or can lead. It’s a constant issue coming up thru these threads.

84

And not just to service men with a three hour scene, our sex is our engine. To let it go, is to sacrifice too much. Because I am still a sexually active woman, I can feel the heat in my womb, my no longer doing its monthly thing womb, warming my whole belly etc region. To these women who let it slide, their sex, don’t.

85

Bi and Lava, be at peace because you are both outside the chaos that is now America.

86

@49. Fichu. A book with a catchpenny title, Why Women Have Better Sex Under Socialism, by Kristen Ghodsee, makes the same case, more or less, as you: in societies with liberalized markets for basic goods, vulnerable people, disproportionately women, will trade sex for shelter, food and drink, security. The motivation for these relationships will not be sexual or romantic, and they will tend to unhappiness in these terms.

I think we need a theory of socialization at the psychic level (or that of beliefs, expectations, norms or the sense of 'the normal') besides an explanation of how behaviour in the intimate sphere is, at bottom, economically determined. But actually, on the spectrum of psychological /sociological explanations for behavior, I'd be pretty far down towards the Marxists' or Althusserians' end.

87

@52. Venn. Your Rumpole reference would only go over my head. Incidentally, John Mortimer became a persuasive advocate of the rights of wheelchair-users towards the end of his life, making many public statements that wheelchairs should be seen in the context of mobility, not disability.

@53. Bi. Perhaps I meant that he's only been pegged /by her/ since they married? Normally in context 'I GGG'ed his desires' would mean 'I fucked him up the ass', but FEMDOM here goes on to say more--'we explored them', 'he' (not 'we' here) 'bought a variety of dildos...'. Yes, sure, she has been GGG in pegging him. I wonder what advice she is looking for, since the answers Dan and commenters have given are fairly obvious. The possibilities: 1) schedule it, and forget any idea that schedules aren't sexy; 2) simplify it; leave the regalia for special occasions, but don't make quickie or maintenance sex always vanilla; 3) his wanting to be pegged is too much of an ask while you have small children. Save it for your retirement; 4) you've tried, been GGG; it's not your bag; hall pass. My read (and this is partly in between the lines) is that she'd like to take 3) back to her husband; would accept 4), but, alas, the first two options are humanly superior and more in the spirit of 'GGG', and she should try to live up to them.

88

@65. Antiserumite. Is she 'uncomfortable' with letting him be fucked by s.o. else? She says she's 'unsure'. She's said she loves her husband; perhaps, in her mind, someone who loves wouldn’t let go? Her actual question is 'how do I motivate myself' to do it more? Maybe the answer she's looking for is something like 'don't think of it as sex. Don't think of it as something you have to enjoy yourself. Think of it as something you can tolerate to please your husband, like a fairground ride or speeding down an empty interstate'.

@69. Hunter. Ha ha ha! Squatting with a vengeance! ;) (Perhaps I'm the only one who finds you funny).

89

@27 thank you for being as example of what not to do. I’ve never tried silk ties because every bondage book or instruction I’ve ever read says not to use them because they can bind up and restrict circulation. First step in becoming a bondage top is learning how to safely do bondage! Contrary to the popular assumption, it can be the most dangerous of the b d s and m practices. Especially in the hands of ignorant newbies who don’t know any better than to use silk ties. For context, I am a woman who has occasionally allowed a man I just met to tie me up. But not some ignorant newbie dude without a spotter. So LW could start with educating himself and I second the recommendation for the public scene. Not necessarily to get to know other kinky people (although that can be good too) but if you can go to public play spaces, you might be able to get experience doing bondage in a setting where others are present, so you can have a learning experience while your practice bottom doesn’t have to risk her life while you learn why everybody recommends against slippery silk ties.

Better recommendations? Something with Velcro and wide bands. Or very loose ties bottom could escape if she wanted to but give the feel of being tied. Chains just draped over the wrists and ankles with the instruction to stay in that position. Boxing gloves or other restrictive mittens. So very many safer ways to start to play with bondage! Please don’t do unsafe things you’ve seen in porn without at least learning basics first. Maybe LW would have an easier time getting partners to try it if he weren’t so frighteningly ignorant.

90

Lava @79/@81: I agree that wearing something sexier than what might be her usual sweatpants and T-shirt nightwear would help get her in the mood for domming. It just doesn't need to be anything so elaborate as to add to the perceived "pageantry" of the endeavour which is putting her off.
Time and energy are two sides of the same coin, no? If she weren't so busy, she'd have more spare time AND more energy. She can summon the energy for vanilla sex but not kinky, because it takes that much more time.

As for me (and thank you for knocking a few years off my age), alas I don't think my methods will be applicable to the married-with-kids set. My strategies run towards "only as old as the person you feel" and "familiarity breeds contempt," by which I mean that not living with my partners means I look forward to seeing them and have some time to build up horniness, rather than sex being something I need to find energy for at the end of a long day, with someone whose socks I don't have to launder and with whom I don't argue over household finances.

Anti @85: We've got quite a bit of chaos on this side of the pond, too. Though I admit that consoling myself with "at least I left the US" is indeed helping me get through the Brexit nightmare.

91

Squidgie @89 - exactly! Excellent advice.

92

I think your suggestion of choices is correct, Harriet, though I think your read that she'd like to take three back to her husband is incorrect. My interpretation is that she's writing because she's starting to feel guilty about it- perhaps for a few years they were in the whirlwind of young kids and she didn't notice or didn't care, but now she's realizing how long it's been. Her husband, who she loves and has decent sex with, does not get the thing that he really loves to get- she's taking stock of that.

Also the advice is not so obvious. She asked for advice on how to motivate herself to do this thing (yet another reason I don't think she's looking for your option three). She's not asking for obvious logistical advice (schedule it). I think what she overlooks is that the obvious logistical stuff WILL in fact help with the motivation.

Can we brain storm other ways one can motivate oneself to do something. Women often start out cold and have to warm up (unless they happen to be otherwise horny for some reason) and it can seem like a chore to go from nothing to sex. When the sex is simple and low pressure, you can get into the head space to just go for it- and more than likely you will then warm up and get into it. Tips abound on how to keep yourself in a warm simmer so that you don't have to warm up again each time, but that's hard to do when you are busy, with kids, long term relationship, etc. So it's an extra hurdle to add all the prep and a long session. Hence how logistics (which should seem obvious- planning) will help with motivation- it takes away that pressure and chore, gives you the time and space to warm up ahead of time.

I've been trying to think of an equivalent- you know there are guys who, after they cum, will not be motivated to do any thing again no matter what you do. Their libido is just on the floor, and it's hard to get it back. Imagine starting out your sexual encounters this way. Complete disinterest, just let me sleep please. I think this is how it is for (ltr, working, parenting) women a lot of the time if you don't keep your libido on a slow burn and don't work up to it. I know this about myself (2 weeks a month I'm never just horny- something would have to make me feel that way, wouldn't just happen, but hormones are a crazy thing and so for one week a month I'm overcome and distracted by horniness no matter what) and so I think it would be good for this woman to figure out her own libido fluctuations, also is she on BC ? Can she figure out when in her cycle she might be more motivated to be adventuresome? I keep the lube very close for that half a month I'd rather just sleep- let's just get started even though I'm not interested and within a few minutes, I'm there. It suddenly comes back. But if we choose to put in the time/effort, it's better though to keep on a slow burn in the first place- don't go a long time without sex, flirt throughout the day when possible, dirty talk while doing the mundane bullshit of life ("when we get home, I'm going to ..."), quickies at times/places you didn't plan, etc. You have to play at it and prioritize it, or else you fall into these ruts in which her libido has cooled, she's down for sex, she gets into it during the sex, but she prefers for them to get off and get it over with. This is fine, but without some planned times to do more and have longer play with more fantasy or kink or whatever floats your boat, you will fall into a rut. That's what it sounds like has happened to the LW. I think the answer is that she cannot find the motivation just to do this fantasy for the dude in isolation- she will have to decide if she's going to prioritize rekindling her libido and keeping on a slow burn or not. That's the only way to find sexual motivation to do anything. You have to reacquaint yourself with being really horny.

Maybe also they need to have some more frequent shorter and less elaborate version of this (vanilla bottoming for him) but that's not going to scratch his itch entirely so that's an addition not a solution. And they might also decide it's cool for him to go see a Dom, but I think that unless they want this situation to get worse rather than better, that should also be an addition not a substitution. She wants to find the motivation to do this thing for him, and I think that's a really good sign, but she needs to actually act on it.

93

Also I highly recommend that if the LW has not already spoken to her husband about this, then she should. Tell him that you wish you were motivated to do this for him. He probably knows how to motivate you (sexually, emotionally, logistically) better than anyone.

94

Tied- "How do I know which ones I can trust? There are hundreds of profiles, but it's hard for me to believe I can really just answer an ad, meet a girl in a hotel room, and tie her up. It can't be that simple, can it?"
You are looking for real women who will assume the same risk as you, with the additional physical vulnerability of being tied up. You are right, the smarter the woman, the more likely she will test you and bolt at the first sign you don't respect consent, enjoy others pain, or don't keep your word. And if she's really smart she will have a plan to prosecute if you do take advantage of the situation and assault her.

SAM - if someone hurts you, but you don't express it, bottle it up, or put it off and don't get around to addressing it, you are effectively consenting to this type of treatment. You have to be willing to value yourself enough to express your pain and step away from people who can't seem to help causing you pain every single time. This can hurt and that's why it's so important to have friends who can help the loneliness. It's worse in the long run to be treated badly by your partner than to step away (not break up all the time but communicate appropriate acceptable behavior, maintain appropriate boundaries, however you say it). He might throw a fit and still refuse to go down on you, bondage, anal, and to do it as often as you want.. But if you are not getting the sex that you want with this partner or on the side in this relationship, then why are you with him anyway? Does that happiness make up for the sex problems? If so then have patience and make the best of it, try to entice him sexually (can you try to change your taste with diet and hygiene and ask him to check? Offer to tie and tease him first? Prepping for butt sex so there's no waiting for him involved if he wants to go for it? Spend some time on foreplay getting him into it?) or find others who will do the kind of sex you want on the side.. if not break up and look for the better match you believe is out there.

Femdom- loved Dan's answer! Yes don't stress unless he's showing the itch.. If he's showing the itch then ask him to at least help with the prep work. If he really wants it, it's in his best interest to make it easy for you to follow through.

95

Femdom- it's really his motivation that should be guiding the fulfillment of his biggest desires.. If he's not bringing it up then why are you so certain this is a problem?

96

@73 @75 correct. but also, yes

97

@92. EmmaLiz. Yes, I could be wrong about FEMDOM wanting Dan to suggest she needn't bother.

One possible reason that my second option, 'simplify the ceremonial pegging', may not have occurred to her is that it could have been her husband who incrementally increased the dressing-up. But maybe this was in response to getting it infrequently? He might happily exchange going easy on the play and scenario aspects for getting penetrated more.

98

@Double 69: Congrats, Hunter. Savor your golden double whammy of riches wisely.

Who's up for the HUnsky?

99

@88 Harriet_by_the_Bulrushes: Maybe that's the only way he can get it!

100

M?? Harriet - Sir John was onto quite a lot of things; he was on the "tolerate my intolerance" trend before 2002. One of my favourite parts of his autobiographical writing was his musing that things that sounded very lefty and liberal when he said them came out sounding crusty and conservative when he put them into the mouth of Rumpole.

101

@100 vennominon: Congratulations, venn, on scoring this week's HUnsky Award! May good fortune come your way soon.


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