Lumping People Who Talk On Airplanes with the Log Cabin Republicans is just mean to those poor, repressed assholes who just won't shut the fuck up.

"if solving the problem is your goal"

That phrase is doing work.

For the LW: I dunno, it seems like sex is high pressure. You want to be fucked with relish, and it sounds like your partners are getting emotionally exhausted. I'd say, if that's been 1 or 2 one-year relationships, that's just dumb luck. 3 or 4, look inward before looking outward, 5+, it's probably you.

Also, I think it matters if these are live-in partners or people you are seeing. If it's the former, see above, it's the later, yikes.

Fucking potatoes with relish?

@1 - Agreed!

"Is there a way to say _ to a guy without totally dooming the relationship?"

Sounds like the relationship is doomed UNLESS you get that message across. Use Dan's rephrase. Fear of losing you might reboot his shitty approach back to the way it was. Or not, then leave.

AAA, read Dan's P.P.S., it could be for you!

AAA, is dirtygerty@4 correct? I re-read your letter, and you do come off as a passive participant. (After you "initiate" [good for you!], but that's just the start. OK, you "dress up" [that's not necessarily their thing: personally I like naked best].)

"these guys...won't...[you're] laying under...[you're the] body in their bed...[they] lay on [you]"

This reminds me of a GF who just laid there like a dead body. I hope we're reading too much into your short letter! If so, I deeply apologize. But if not, try positions/effort yourself!

There is one thing in common with all this terrible sex. YOU. I’m not shaming or blaming, but you’re the constant in the equation. So, 1) take a hard, honest look at the guys you are choosing. Is there a common thread? Maybe you need to try a different kind of dick. 2) Take a hard, honest look at yourself. Can it be possible that you are contributing to the problem, maybe in an unconscious way? Ask some of the old lovers what went wrong, and ask them to be honest. 3) COMMUNICATE with your next partner. Let him know this has been a problem and that you both need to work to head it off this time around. 4) Consider that MAYBE you aren’t cut out for long-term monogamy and this is your way of moving on to the next dick.

LW strikes me as a Trump supporter.

This is rather mystifying, LW. Are you leaving out some information? You mentioned that the sacks of potatoes smelled like beer, did your boyfriends drink too much all the time? Too much alcohol will depress libido and kill performance ability. Did they work really long hours or have very physically exhausting jobs? Did you have very stressful lives? Money problems? Did they get enough exercise? Unhealthy diet? Lots of fighting? If it's not alcohol, drugs, health, job or money stress, then you need to look at what you've been doing - what kind of men are you attracted to, and what your relationships with them were like, both in and out of bed. Why were they always on top? Did you guys do things other than PIV? You mentioned doing things to make yourself more attractive, and the sex more interesting with toys and gear, did you also try to make your partner feel attractive and desirable?

Could be that you've just been really unlucky, but more likely some interactions between you and your past partners led to this problem. Obvs you can't expect the sex to always be ripping each other's clothes off, 5-6 times per day forever, life and responsibilities do intrude. But to always end up with the beer stinking sack of potatoes thing after just a year is strange.

@4, your analysis was spot on that the LW is a "greedy, lazy lay" who expects her man to do all the work for her to get her rocks off and then get himself off. When she pointed out that women like her know the difference between "being fucked with relish" versus "being masterbated in to", that was very telling.
The LW clearly does not understand the dynamics of a LTR and unrealistically expects NRE to be exhibited by her man throughout the relationship forever. Its never dawned on her that she should "spice it up" occasionally by providing her man with an "earth shattering orgasm" that he can enjoy without expending a ton of effort on his part. As dirtygerty said, "after months of doing all the work, it's exhausting and a major turn off". The fact that the same outcome has taken place with every LTR she's been involved in squarely points to her as the source of the problem!

I'd add one things to the comments above: Maybe you need to find boyfriends through some new method. Perhaps all the beer-stinking dead weight lays are met in bars. So, try something else.

@8: She struck me as a Bernie supporter.

Whenever someone talks about how they bring their A-game whilst complaining that their partner (or co-workers, or roommates,
or whatever situation they are in) are not fulfilling their perceived end of the bargain, I usually find that they have really high, unrealistic expectations of other people. Empathy is not usually their forte and they end up running through people like kleenex. The LW could also be naive in a way and has yet to figure out that sex does not remain red hot and in the front of everyone's brain and that's she's burning them out. Whatever the reason, she needs to either 1. Back the fuck off and grow up a little if she wants monogamy, or 2. Accept that she will need more than one partner so they can get a god damn break. Or even better, 3. Get pregnant, have a kid, and then be really happy if you get to fuck more than a couple times a month.

She's not saying she's "excited, with roaming hands and greedy eyes" and riding them vigorously. Only that the guys aren't do so after a year. So I agree with @4 an @10.

They aren't fucking her with relish, but is she fucking THEM with relish? (not that I'm into minced bits of preserved squash during sex, but to each their own).

I’m going to agree with @4/dirtygerty. When it comes to penetrative sex, the women I’ve been with don’t do anything after getting into a position on their backs, hand and knees, or bent over the bed, etc. And most are quite happy for me to use my size and strength to lift, carry, pull, push, or toss them into that position to begin with. In the one position in which they can take control, being on top, I have yet to be with a women who actually put out the effort to ride me, leaving me to have to thrust upwards while they hovered on top of me.

So getting fucked by 35 guys is great experience to know what getting fuck well versus getting fucked poorly is like, but it doesn’t mean AAA is doing anything during sex to make it great. And as noted above, if the toys she is buying are things she expects her boyfriends to use on her, that is again about how they are fucking her, not how she can learn to be more of an active sex partner.

As for how AAA can make sex better, she is going to have to find ways to be a more active sex partner, so that she not just laying there, but is actually controlling the fucking, especially when she is on top, but also on her hands and knees. I also wonder whether she communicates during sex about what she wants, and not simply asking for “hard and faster (while I lay here).” Her partners aren’t mind readers, and you don’t often get what you don’t ask for when it comes to sex.

But she might also go in a different direction. A while back EricaP(?) or EmmaLiz(?) mentioned taking vaginal sex off the menu and focusing on other forms of sexual interaction. Maybe AAA and her partners could uses some time away from penetrative sex to recharge their sexual connection.

Uh, sharpened rocks? You having some medication or therapy issues we should know about?

Otherwise, yeah, I gotta agree that the common denominator in the relationships is her, so either she needs to change up her sex game or how she picks her partners.

As a straight male in a very LTR, I'll add a thought (since it's clearly LW who is responsible for this pattern, not the guys she's sleeping with): You're not doing the LTR thing properly. Something you're doing OUTSIDE of bed is turning these guys off. You need to figure out what that is, and how to change it.
I'd suggest starting with the extremely aggressive tone of your letter. It's a clue!
Assuming, of course, LW really does want to find an answer to this question. Obviously it's safer emotionally to haul out the whips and chains. Or just switch to the next schlub.

I have to say, it is a bit of both. It's my experience, too, that sex gets routine after a while. Twelve to fifteen months sounds about right. You find the position or two that works best, and you stick with those two. You figure out one magic way to make them come, and you pull out that trick each time. This IS, as you've learned, to some extent inevitable; the price of the regular sex you get in a relationship is that most of the sex is pretty regular.

That said, it sounds like AAA is both having bad luck/making bad choices and failing to keep things on track herself. He wants to climb on top, and that's boring to you? Push him over and straddle him yourself. He's ignoring your boobs? Grab his hand and put it there, or raise the gals to his mouth. He smells of beer and feels like a sack of potatoes? Stop cruising at football games. (I kid, sort of.) Guy says, early on, that your initiating sex makes him feel "pressured"? DTMFA and find a guy who appreciates horny gals. And Dan's PPS is bang on. I'm currently in four- and seven-year relationships with people I love, and the sex hasn't gone stale, partly because I have periodic new shinies to give me an NRE boost (and new ideas!) that carry over to my existing relationships. If you can't do that, pick dudes you find smoking hot so that even the idea of vanilla missionary sex with them turns you on. Another thought, bring out the kinks early. You may think of kinks as something you add to a relationship a year in, to make it interesting again. But the guys who are into kink are into kink from the get-go; no wonder the ones you're only suggesting it to after a year aren't interested. They're vanilla! Ditch the beer-swilling dudes from the bars and go to fetish clubs. I guarantee you'll find men there who are into more creative sex. Lastly, I agree with Sportlandia @2: Maybe don't shack up with these guys. Routine sex sets in when you live together and need make no further effort to get laid than to roll over and start fondling your bedmate. If you don't live together, you'll look forward to seeing each other, have a bit of horn built up by the time you do, and be more enthusiastic about the sex. Good luck.

Sublime @15: I'm sorry. The worst thing, when I get on top of a guy, is when he just holds me in place and pounds me from below. If I wanted HIM to fuck ME, he'd be on top! Aargh! If I'm getting on top, it's because I want to set the pace. Maybe these women just want to ride you more slowly than you expect they do?

Yup, came here to say what @1 said- that as annoying as airplane talkers are, let's not group them with Log Cabin Republicans or Proud Boys.

And yes, the LW is the common denominator.

If the LW were just describing dudes defaulting to jackrabbiting on top of her, then OK, I'd say the LW should take the initiative to suggest something different. But LW is saying she does that. So I'm confused, because while there are surely plenty of guys who'd be all "no I'm just going to thrust here until I get off and then roll over and sleep" that's surely not ALL guys (or even a majority). Unless there's some other factor in your life. And the smells like beer part is what stood out to me.

So I'd say, take some stock of the circumstances around which you're having sex. Is it just at the end of the day when you are both tired? Is it just when the dudes have been drinking? What other common factors / trends do you find? Plan sexy time ahead of time?

And I disagree with Dan about the approach, at least initially. Before starting with 'what we're doing sucks' how about start with 'it's really how when we X...' and then suggest a time when you can X again- - 'so how's about on Sat morning we X since it's been a while and I'm craving it?' then reminders on Fri ('can't wait until tomorrow morning') etc.

Hot sex in ltrs takes work or everyone defaults to the easiest thing. And for guys, the easiest thing is often just thrusting on top.

OK so back to the letter. It's this paragraph that strikes me as... well something.

"I keep bringing my A-game. I dress up. I will initiate but most of these guys I've been with said that made them feel "pressured" so I stopped. So the only way I get laid after twelve or fifteen months? By accepting whatever sex is on offer—even if it's cursory and impersonal. But I know that if these guys had a new girl's body in their bed, Dan, it wouldn't be like that. Because they weren't like this with me in the beginning. They were excited, with roaming hands and greedy eyes, and they didn't just lay on me like a dead weight."

If she were talking about one dude in one circumstance or her ltr hubby after he's been at work all day then home changing diapers or whatever, then OK. But all the dudes you've been with? All of them are freaked out by you taking initiative and not into your suggestions that you are kinky?

To me that sounds like you need to consider things outside of the bedroom- what filters are you putting up that makes you select for dudes that are this way? Because if it's not just a handful of guys acting like this, the prob is YOU.

Now I embark on the part of my advice that is likely a bunch of projection from my own personal experience but which might be helpful to you, take from it what seems relevant and discard the rest.

You sound sexually assertive but not a Dom in a world in which men tend to be traditionally more dominant (hello sis) and in my experience that means you filter for a certain kind of guy. Here is what I have found.

Most guys, dominant or submissive or anything in between, are generally excited to hook up with a gal who is assertive and into sex and who will take an active role and suggest things to do. This isn't something that will sustain a sex life, but in my experience, most guys seem pretty happy, if not down right excited, to go along with anything you suggest in the beginning.

But you aren't a Dom, and I'm not either, so it's not like you are looking for dudes who want to be told what to do. You are looking for equal enthusiasm. Alrighty, but in this world, equal enthusiasm requires you to be willing to surrender some control as well, and that's a hard thing to do in the beginning when you first meet a guy. So while you might be totally down for this with a guy who you've been with for 12 months or so, you might not be down for this with a guy you've only just met. So what I'm asking is- is there some subtle thing you are doing that might be filtering out dudes who are more assertive sexually (or more naturally have a higher libido) early on? Because horny and less experienced or less assertive dudes are going to be super likely to be turned on by your assertiveness in the beginning, but then they are also more likely to default into what is easier when the newness wears off (thrusting on top of you). It's a tricky thing.

So my advice is totally different from Dans.

First off, talk to your current beau as I described above (let's plan X ...) and see what happens.

Second, reflect on what you might be doing to filter out the sorts of guys you'd like to be with in the first place. This does not mean you start acting all submissive, by no means. But maybe you start to also filter out the sorts of guys who aren't really into sex so much- they are just into your assertiveness because they're not super experienced. Look for more experienced guys who prioritize sex from the get-go, and not just because you are into it. Consider how this affects your flirting back way before you are fucking also. It's hard, I know.

Third, there are all sorts of ways to be non-monogamous. Reconsider what you want. If you need to compartmentalize, that's OK.

Finally, the alcohol thing stands out- are you only fucking at night and when you've had some drinks or are you prioritizing sex and making time for it?

In any case, back up out of the advice- when the dude is laying on top of you like a sack of potatoes, I assume you are using your words (mouth and hands) and if you suggest something different, what do they do?

A young woman goes for a gynecological exam. The doctor asks, "Are you sexually active?" She replies, "No, I just kinda lie there." Ba-tum tish!

'it's really how when we X...'

hot not how

Also, Sublime, I don't have a dick but let me just say that humping (as a hip motion) is easier than riding (the cock slips out, it's in the thighs and hips) and also that - at least personally- a slow grind is way more pleasurable than any up/down back/forth motion though that seems to be what gets cocks off. Those of us who do get off from PIV (and I'm one of them) tend to get off from grinding or clit stimulation during PIV, not humping. So when you compare the two (guy on top vs girl on top) to me it does seem that guys are doing something that is physically easier and also guided by their own pleasure while girls riding are doing the opposite- a thing that is physically difficult and guided by the pleasure of the guy's cock (wants that up/down, back/forth motion).

Now obviously once a person is experienced sexually it doesn't have to be this way- guys who are good lovers don't just jackrabbit and women who are experienced lovers know how to mix it up so they ride/grind, but I think the learning curve does tend to favor male pleasure so a woman learns pretty early how to just be a receptive force to a guys' thrusting regardless while a guy learns how to take control of the situation and move her around- all frustrating to everyone.

I find it nearly impossible to get on top of a guy and do that cowgirl bouncing thing that you see in porn for more than just a few seconds at a time. I'm just not coordinated enough to do it, and it doesn't feel good to me, and in fact sometimes hurts. I can do a slow sort of rhythmic motion much longer, and while it makes my tits look nice and guys seem to really like it, it does not get me off. What gets me off is leaning in close and grinding against the pelvic bone so I have to mix it up. But if I didn't have a history of experience doing this, I wouldn't know- we can't discard how many women don't know how to make themselves cum. Finally, it's likewise my experience that in the vast majority of PIV positions, the majority of men eventually want you to stop moving- as much as they bitch about women laying there and not moving for example, in actual experience, when a guy is going to cum, if he's in a position to be doing the thrusting (which is most positions), he is not going to want me to interfere with his rhythm once he gets it going.

In my own experience, I've found that I tend to have good sex with a dude if I take the intiative in the first place, the more active role, or if we are very deeply in tuned with each other's bodies. The second is hard to come by, and the first requires a woman to know how her orgasms work. That's why I suggest taking the focus off of PIV- there are so many other ways to get off and no default, the woman can learn both her own orgasms and how to change the focus from escalation just to male cumming, the man can move away from the default of being the active person that moves around his partner into a position to fuck, also it puts the woman into more natural positions of assertiveness- blow jobs and hand jobs and dry humping & grinding are all easier (from a coordination and sustained energy point of view) than getting on top of a guy and riding him, which is part of the reason (I think) that so many younger and inexperienced women will give blow jobs but not PIV (virginity issues aside).

Anywayz I forget what I was talking about.

EmmaLiz@24~ Great comments! I agree, “...we can't discard how many women don't know how to make themselves cum...” a surprisingly large percentage in my experience. The ones who do, and aren’t afraid to go for it are gems!
BiDan@25~ Ha!

Bi, I would appreciate nothing more than a woman who can get on top of me and fuck me. That requires actual movement of her body. Whether she moves up and down, or leans forward so her body rests on mine and she rocks forwards and backwards. But in my experience women simply do nothing, except wait for me to fuck them. In one extreme case, I had a girlfriend who would get top and then freeze. I wouldn’t even be in her vagina, and I would lay there thinking “What ... Is ... Going ... On.”

As for the pace, I don’t like a fast pace. Especially using condoms, the faster the pace, the less I feel the contact between my cock and her vagina. So when I fuck a woman harder, but particularly faster, that’s by her specific request. So slower works for me, but it still requires movement.

@7. Donny. Yes, the sense I got was that the LW was the (unavoidable) common denominator in the sense of choosing these eventually lazy lays, but probably not in the sense of contributing to their unhappy sex lives. She is talking, using her words now. There's nothing in her tone that suggests pillow princess.

I'm not sure that the sex she says habitually comes with fingering and oral (his going down on her) as standard. Her example of a guy trying to please her, and of taking an erotic interest in her as a person, is his playing with her tits. Surely this has to be the baseline... one of the many things forming the baseline, alongside some toys, mutual masturbation, eye contact, some conversation, talking dirty, role play, as her partner's minimal expectation of what sex will involve?

I don't see that she needs to be with any guy who after 15 months uses her like a piece of meat.

@15. Sublime. Well, when it comes to penetrative sex, most of the women I've been with have penetrated me :) . But when it comes to PIV penetrative sex, virtually all of the small sample of women I've done it with have at some stage controlled the rhythm, pace and degree of contact from on top. Are straight women really so bad at PIV? ;)

I feel that most people here are not cutting the LW enough slack. They are not sufficiently considering the possibility of cultural differences in how straights of various background fuck. She's slept with 35 men. How many of the first five or six, say--the expectation-setting experiences--were fully engaging? By this, I mean that something like engaging her mind as well as her body--for instance, that expectation built through the evening; that he was interested in her views; that they went out for dinner; that, say, there was massage; that the sex was slow or romantic, that he joked and flirted before he licked her out.... (Maybe this more describes adult experiences, which would come after the fifth or sixth time--but I mean her formative adult experiences...). I'm not sure she has the legitimate expectation of this, of a more sophisticated good fuck than a passionate fumble. Crude, later-sure-to-be-uninterested lays are getting past the fourth or fifth sex-date with her, perhaps, when she should be dumping them.

@31/Harriet: “I feel that most people here are not cutting the LW enough slack.”

I think this letter is another good example of how female letter writers get kid glove treatment. Everything is about the fucking she deserves, but hasn’t gotten long-term, yet nothing but her word that she has this awesome sexual A game.

If a man wrote in that he had 35 sex partners, but the sex fizzled consistently at 12-15 months, there would be an avalanche of comments about his hygiene, consideration, oral sex skills, communications skills, sexual techniques, attitude, romantic gestures, etc. There would be zero comments suggesting that the 35(!) women were the source of the problem.

@31 Harriet

Agreed that commenters are being way harsh. (I’m guessing most of them haven’t had the experience of being women who fuck straight dudes so I guess that’s to be expected.)

Interesting conversations happening though. It’s definitely true that there are lots of men out there who just want to fuck a motionless woman. (I’ve experienced it, though fortunately I knew that that was not to be catered to.) It’s easy for women to mistakenly accept the message that sex is men fucking women—and then feel helpless later on.

I’m in my life’s only long term relationship after a lot of premarital fucking, and I definitely have fallen into that place where I kind of have forgotten a lot of my moves, or maybe just an older and less coordinated, because I have trouble believing I used to be on top a bunch and that many women find it EASIER to orgasm that way because it does not work for me anymore. So I think commenters need more empathy for LW, and LW needs more empathy for her partners. (And yeah, to pick guys who don’t reek of beer because?????)

@27/EmmaLiz: “So when you compare the two (guy on top vs girl on top) to me it does seem that guys are doing something that is physically easier and also guided by their own pleasure while girls riding are doing the opposite- a thing that is physically difficult and guided by the pleasure of the guy's cock (wants that up/down, back/forth motion).”

Seriously, men have an easier time physically while fucking? Sitting and grinding or using your thigh muscles to rock your body is more taxing than thrusting while using your arms to hold you up and/or hold your partner’s legs open?

“I find it nearly impossible to get on top of a guy and do that cowgirl bouncing thing that you see in porn for more than just a few seconds at a time.”

Try getting on your hands and knees and thrusting your hips a couple of thousand times. Every so often have some tell you harder and faster, and see if you can do that a few hundred times.

“I'm just not coordinated enough to do it.”

Practice makes perfect.

“It doesn't feel good to me, and in fact sometimes hurts.”

After sex, my knees are often rubbed raw, my arms ache, and if my partner has asked me to hammer her pussy, I feel like I’ve been punched.

“The majority of men eventually want you to stop moving- as much as they bitch about women laying there and not moving for example, in actual experience, when a guy is going to cum.”

There is a difference between those few minutes leading up to his orgasm, and all the sex that happens before that which you elide. But for the record, yes, many guys need a focus rhythm with consistent vaginal contact to orgasm.

Also for the record, I do not “jackrabbit,” but I do get frequent requests for “harder and faster,” until I’m hammering her body. But I give what I’m asked for.

@15 SublimeAfterglow
"I have yet to be with a women who actually put out the effort to ride me"

Not my experience, FWIW.

I was worried that another unnecessary genitalia war is looming in the horizon, yet once again relieved to see how mature and constructive this forum can be.

That said, sharpened rocks should probably pursue their genius poetic aspiration elsewhere.

All straight men have to rebooted after 11 months, or you’ll see declining performance. There’s a button behind the left ear. Press and hold for 15 seconds. Wait one hour for him to cycle up fully, then you should be good to for another 11 months.

When things get stale, add more oral. If you're not getting what you need, add some strictly solo time into the equation. If you feel like it, invite him.

The thing is, no matter what in a LTR, you are the only one responsible for your sexual satisfaction. Do what you need to do, be generous in giving them what they need, and allow them to be generous to you. If either of those components fail, you will need to work together to figure out how things can be better. Be willing to give some hard truths and to hear some.

I've been the boyfriend in this scenario. Basically the person is so demanding and picky that it sucks all the fun out of sex. It becomes too high pressure. They both need new partners.

Been there. It's frustrating because it tends to go hand in hand with the problem of nen expecting you to do 100% of the emotional labor in the relationship, outside of the sexual dynamic. You vacillate between anger at your partner for being so srlfidh ans uncaring, and raging at society (and moms who spoil their sons) for raising men to be so entitled, to wishing you were a lesbian and could date one of your empathetic female friends. I think part of it does come froma particular kind of relationship dynamic, though, in which ironically we make things worse with the way we try to fix the problem. Google"pursuer-avoider dynamic"and you may recognize your own relationship in the results. In my experience (similar to LW's) the problem applies to the entire relationship, not just sex.

L-dub, it sounds like you like a man to really go at you hard. Not necessarily hard fucking, but an intense working over of your body. That's awesome! But what are you doing to inspire that intensity? My wife loves both a hard working over and a hard fuck (side note: my experience has been that women like a hard fuck like... a LOT! Like more than the dude. Might have to do with whether contact with her cervix is pleasurable or not.) I'm the dominant one and the initiator for the most part. But you know what, she's an active participant, maybe pinching my nipple or digging her nails in to up the intensity, knowing how I'll respond. We get into a good groove moving together even if I'm the way more active one (i.e. she'll be changing the angle of her hips as we fuck etc. etc.). What are you doing to keep the vibe hot during the actual fucking?

And I'm going to go against the grain here and say don't talk more. Talk less and feel more. Learn to feel together. Learn how to understand each other's bodies physically not mentally. This whole 'talk it to death' movement is not IMO sexy at all. There are more ways to communicate than with words. Within a context of trust and empathy, bodies can do the job fine with way less words.

Sublime @34: "Seriously, men have an easier time physically while fucking? Sitting and grinding or using your thigh muscles to rock your body is more taxing than thrusting while using your arms to hold you up and/or hold your partner’s legs open?"

As someone who enjoys wearing a strap-on: Yes. A million times, yes. When thrusting, you are moving your hips back and forth. An easy motion. When on top, you are using your thigh muscles to lift and lower your entire torso. This is far more physically demanding. (Though no excuse for not moving at all!)

Philosophy @41: Ah, it's a shame that not everyone has a magic "context of trust and empathy." Far more often, you get a man who's pounding away at a woman as hard and fast as he can because that's what his last girlfriend liked, a woman who's gritting her teeth and hoping that gets him off quickly, and nobody who's actually enjoying themselves. Imagine how many unsatisfying sex sessions they'd have to have before it occurred to him that maybe it's NOT that she just doesn't come from intercourse? They'd probably have broken up long before then, whereas if one of them just opened their mouth and started a conversation about what they liked, they'd be able to have sex they both enjoyed much, much sooner.

And anyone who doesn't see LOTS of criticism -- constructive or otherwise -- of this LW isn't really reading.

As I keep reading men's criticism of women who don't bring enough sexually, I started to wonder what I could do to be better in bed. I feel like I bring enthusiasm, but not necessarily good technique. I'm pretty open for lots of different acts, but now I wonder if I just put my body into the requested position and the men are doing all the work and resenting me.
So I'm asking: men who have sex with women: what makes for a good partner? What should she do? What do you wish that more women did? I'd like some pointers.

@32. Sublime. AAA certainly does not deserve to have her beer-sodden lover lie on top of her like a cold sack of potatoes, his hands balled into fists as he ignores her while humping the lower part of her body and willing his probably-just-tumescent dick into coming.

No one deserves that--and she especially doesn't, as someone who has approached her exes and tried to change it up.

32 partners can often be enough to give a person a good idea of a wide range of the ways in which they like to have sex. (Well, one partner can sometimes be enough). But not always. A lot depends on the initial circumstances in which a person starts to have sex--how much conversation is there between her and her friends; how prohibitive or permissive--and ready to talk--are the adults or parents; whether there's a culturally dominant default like PIV that it's hard to imagine questioning. (In my case, the first mind-blowingly, or actually mind-releasingly, great lover I had wasn't in my first ten or even first twenty). We don't know how AAA started out. Is she from a rural part of the country where there wasn't much to do but making out? Did she go to frat-boy parties in college and have one-night stands? Not knowing which would develop into relationships? How many of the hookups or short relationships were in young adulthood--with friends, e.g. coworkers on graduate management programs or Internet dates? Whichever way, I don't think she's demanding enough in her early expectations. Bi is right that she should introduce kink earlier and EmmaLiz right that she shouldn't be embarrassed to be assertive, and should be prepared to weed out guys who respond badly to that.

BiDanFan@42

As someone who also enjoys strap-on sex, I'm gonna disagree. I find thrusting in a missionary position physically demanding, on both the arms and the thigh muscles. By contrast, thrusting in a doggy-style position is pretty easy, as your hips are stacked over your knees, and you have a lot of control over the angle.

I'd rate "cowgirl" somewhere in between "missionary" and "doggy-style", in terms of physical exertion for the more active partner.

@33. Belle_Starr. Yes. I was a bit surprised there wasn't more sympathy. I think the first two straight women to comment entertained the idea that 'the problem lies with you'.

Doubtless, most of the time, it's easier for a man to come with/into a motionless partner--without unexpected squirming, grinding, counter-thrusts. The problem, as you say, lies in thinking that that's sex, rather than the male climax, one part of sex and one part, too, of male pleasure (even if, for some, the pinnacle).

I'd think different women would say different things about how and whether they come when 'on top'--whether through frictional grinding or partly through guiding the head of the guy's cock onto areas of her vagina.

I'm a straight man who actually sympathizes with LW despite the fact that sure, from a statistical standpoint, she is the common denominator. Below is my initial reaction.

Do you know that your "A-game" is what gets these guys off? Do you know deep down what does get them off? What they're thinking about in the moments leading up to orgasm? Have you talked about this? Do you know what their kinks are? If you're not getting them off every day, they're most likely watching porn and getting themselves off. Do you know what they're watching - i.e., what turns them on when they're in their most private moments? When they're "concentrating" to get there, are you connected to what they're concentrating on?

If no to any of the above, I suggest changing that. And if you're talking about new relationships going forward, do that earlier than 12-15 months in. Find someone whose kinks align with yours or with whom you can be fully and genuinely accepting - enthusiastic even - about their kinks.

It sounds like you get off on being wanted (not uncommon). If you are enthusiastically accepting what these guys want, they're likely to remain turned on by you - there won't be such a separation between their present situation (you and your version of an A-game) and what they're thinking about (the stuff they fear you won't accept, that they watch in porn, and incorporate to get off). As the newness of your body subsides, sex is likely becoming more psychological for them, and if the psychological is separate from you, that could be having this effect.

Note: it can be a pretty vulnerable situation for someone to reveal what he is truly thinking about deep down, and you may need to preemptively make him feel very accepted and trusting to get to this point. It would not surprise me if some men would mask the more taboo nature of what really gets them off by softening it and giving a "lighter" version of it. The more trust and acceptance you're able to cultivate, the more you'll get down to the real thing(s).

@40. visualworry. This is exactly the right point to raise. AAA's sex will be bad because the rest of her 15-month old relationship is bad. At the start of her next one, it might help if she made clear she wanted her partner to work with her on their problems, in and out of the bedroom.

@36. CMD. I usually think my dick an unnecessary genital. But fear not, there will always be people interpreting me was going to war with it. This remark may also be taken the wrong way....

@44 - my reaction to LW in #48 could also be one answer I'd have for you. I once read about a study that suggested the reason straight men may like to ejaculate onto a woman's face is more about feeling accepted than about demeaning her. Point of that anecdote being: feeling like someone loves and accepts me as a naturally sexual being and the exact ways I get off - necessarily including the psychological elements - goes a long way toward significantly enhancing physically appealing acts.

Shouldn't be all on you either, but if a man is doing his part and being attentive to your wants and needs, and you're just genuinely seeking to reciprocate that, I'd suggest that my earlier response could apply.

Should straight women cultivate 'technique'? Without an enormous amount of skin in the game, I think they should.

@51: I suppose I have some technique, but I am always up for learning new things. I'm mostly just curious about what makes a woman good at sex from a man's point of view.

@48. Spf. Everything you say is helpful--but my suspicion is that the 'common denominator' in AAA'S experiences may actually be patriarchal entitlement.

@52. Nocute. You are confusing me--I thought that you weren't talking to me....

Let's take the cowgirl movement where the woman's feet are planted flat and she moves up and down on the guy's dick roughly in a figure-of-eight? (Straights can correct me on any points). I can't think that's technically simple.... What if one has to do ten minutes a day pelvic floor exercises to have the core strength for it? Well, why wouldn't a straight woman who loves sex do it?

From a bi/queer POV, a woman getting wet in ten minutes, not forty minutes, is tremendously relaxing. I know this is unhelpful and impossible advice.

@52 as your typical straight lady people pleaser, I too am interested in reading men's responses here. And that reminds me of another telling detail: lots of straight dudes commenting here are complaining about needy women partners and commiserating with LW's boyfriends, but nowhere in her letter does it suggest that these boyfriends have communicated that sort of frustration to her. If LW is lazy and terrible in bed (which I am not ready to assume), that's something her partners should be working to address, not leaving up to her to figure out on her own. Maybe I am reading my own experiences into this, but it seems to me that for the LW the bad sex is only half the problem; the other half of the problem is that her partners all accept that bad sex is going to be the norm from now on, and aren't saddened enough by the decline in the relationship to open up with her and discuss how to improve things.

@23 I have some experience with the "cowgirl position" but you are right. Both of those women wanted me to:.... #1 stay hard ...and yet...

2 hold still.

I think one of them even said "hold still and suck" while pulling my mouth up to her nipple. Lesson learned.

@23 you don't like to watch dem titties bounce?

@4: "You're probably a greedy, lazy lay"

Just the opposite, she's just not dumping people who think her libido is "too intimidating".

@57: "Or maybe she's just not very attractive."

Or they're the shitty tumblrdoms who don't want to put in a lot of attention to her needs.

@BiDanFan: “As someone who enjoys wearing a strap-on: Yes. A million times, yes. When thrusting, you are moving your hips back and forth. An easy motion. When on top, you are using your thigh muscles to lift and lower your entire torso. This is far more physically demanding.”

Bi, not sure what position you’re in when wearing a strap-on, but your comment suggests doggie, which is less taxing than others.

Your thigh muscles are your largest and most powerful, so the idea that women can’t use those muscles to move a few inches up and down or rocking back and forth is crazy. And when fucking a woman I’m doing a lot more work than just moving my hips a few inches.

@55: "I too am interested in reading men's responses here"

Do take the bitter ones with a shaker or two of salt. There are a few regulars who project their own insecurities and failures onto women.

@60: "Your thigh muscles are your largest and most powerful, so the idea that women can’t use those muscles to move a few inches up and down or rocking back and forth is crazy"

I may not be visualizing quite the same thing as either of you, but I saw what they were describing as more a series of squats, which could easily get exhausting depending on the length of the bout, positioning, and general fitness level of the parties involved.

@45/Harriet: “No one deserves that--and she especially doesn't, as someone who has approached her exes and tried to change it up.”

No where in the letter does it state that she’s contacted he exes. Again, the idea that all her long term relationships came to bad sex after 12-15 months and that fact is the entire fault of men is simply absurd. And again, if a man had written this letter about female partners, the tsunami of reasons that it was his fault would have been extraordinary. Yet, many commenter are willing to suggest that in fact the issue may be all those men. That just says a lot more about the commentary to Savage Love than it does about men.

@54/Harriet: “Let's take the cowgirl movement where the woman's feet are planted flat and she moves up and down on the guy's dick roughly in a figure-of-eight?”

@62/undead: “I may not be visualizing quite the same thing as either of you, but I saw what they were describing as more a series of squats.”

Wut?

Get on you bed in a kneeling position, knees apart, your butt resting on your heels. Using your thigh muscles raise yourself up so that you’re on your knees. If you lean forward so you are resting a portion of your upper body weight on your out stretched arms, you’ve rotated your hips. In this position a woman’s vagina will be pointing down and back, while her partner’s penis will be point up and forward. If she lowers herself on to his cock she should be able to rock forward and back or grind down on him.

Cosign with others: Being on top as a man - missionary in particular - is a workout and the most strenuous position for me to have sex in. Supporting my own body weight is the biggest issue - shoulders get tired, it takes a lot of concentration, etc.

Harriet @ 49
I was referring to past discussions, similar to the one in hand, when a het cis person made remarks on the opposite het cis camp. If it wasn’t clear that not all genitals have a dog in this fight, then it should be now.

@64 This was my Miss N.s favorite position. However. In recent years, even with the blue pill, I cannot maintain an erection when she is in the cowgirl position. Very frustrating for us and this has led us towards experimentation. I always enjoyed this position as I I enjoy having "dem titties" very much. I have wondered why my body has failed me in this. I have not asked my Dr. but I have assumed that since it requires me to hold still, the lack of thrusting has led to my, ah, "decline" ?

The only position in which I orgasm during piv is on top. Best way to control the sex, and manage pressure on the clit. Can’t imagine why a woman would climb on board and not do anything.

My wife and I are partners in the act, but at the end... 95 times out of 100 I'm the one who is out of breath. And I'm in fine shape. To be clear, I have no problem with this. I'm not trying to win for my gender and prove I'm working harder. It's just how our dynamic goes. From informal polling, this is a fairly standard (but of course not universal) outcome. Dude physically works harder during sex.

@44 - nocutename - I'm a cis dude in polyamorous relationships with a couple of great bi women who are good at sex. For me, the number one thing that they do is know themselves: what gets them interested, what gets them aroused, what gets them off, what leaves them feeling satisfied hours and days later. A very close second is that they tell me and show me these things using clear words and actions. And number three is that they expect exactly the same thing from me. The pursuit of good sex is mutual, deliberate, communicative, and engaged with vigor. After that it's all details.

That said, these traits make my lovers good lovers for me. I have broken up with extraordinarily hot people who expected us to skate by on intuition and guessing, whose idea of a good lover was someone who naturally wanted to do exactly the right sort of things. Those people have gone on to find good matches who evidently posses some kind of luck or intuition which I lack. So your question really comes down, not to "What makes a woman a good lover for a man?" but rather, "How can two particular people be compatible?" And that ... varies.

Agree SA @64, Harriet’s saying a woman plants her feet down. Must be a very big cock to have that happen. The knees are on the bed.
The woman can sit up in the cowgirl
position, and move up and down or lie over the man, still with the knees on the bed, and move from that position. It’s helpful if the man has a few pillows under his shoulders and head. No biting of nipples, only licking or sucking, as the action builds. Don’t want to lose one of them.

nocute@44~ "...what makes for a good partner?..."
Best sex for me is with a woman who is LOVING it and letting it show that she loves it. Moaning, panting, talking dirty... My favorite lady once hopped off when I was about to come, clamped her hand on my dick, and said, "You can't come yet, I want more!" (That was after like 50 minutes of fucking – not like we'd just started, and she was multi-orgasmic, so she'd already came 4 or 5 times). That was SO sexy, knowing how much she was into it.

Here's the part I don't get. AAA has to be in love, but her letter doesn't start "I am heartbroken. I'm really into a guy, really love him, but a year in the sex becomes awful. I end up breaking up with him because I want better sex." See the disconnect? She has to be in love for the sex to be good, but that only happens at the beginning of the relationship.

I like Dan's advice to note that she's the common denominator. I also note that it does happen for lots of us for sex to become more warm and comforting while becoming less hot and sexy for a lot of us. Further, most of us don't hit that 15 month wall time and time again.

Advice? AAA says she's bisexual who tends to date cis guys. I'm surprised the 72 commenters before me haven't jumped on this angle. Maybe the thing AAA needs to switch up is to start dating women.

As for the commenters who complain of women who just lie there. I'm probably one of those. I do initiate, but I initiate by getting naked and sidling up to him, maybe swiveling my hips. Then I'm one who lies back and writhes and moans and gets wet. I have had a man complain about this. One time having sex with him was plenty. We didn't repeat the experiment. I've had more men be thrilled that I'm so responsive. Those were the guys I stuck with. I wouldn't have put it in these terms before I started reading this column, but you could say I found men I'm compatible with (and there were enough of them).

I cannot speak for other men but the point I was making earlier was that I would like my woman to occasionally do all the work necessary to give me a "happy ending" using various techniques. By that I mean PIV should not be the only way she should use to give me a pleasurable orgasm. And for the record, I don't even need her to be 50/50 doing this - just surprise me every now and then. Giving me an occasional "earth shattering" orgasm will help recharge my interest in making love to her and as a result I will gladly and lovingly do most or all of the work to give her a pleasurable experience. But if I'm the only one doing all the work, it will get old, exhausting and boring very quickly. IMHO, the LW has yet to learn this, which is why she winds up frustrated year after a year with her boyfriends.

@44 Enthusiasm and an interest and ability to find a groove together. Any non-fuckwad dude wants to know that the woman he's with is happy to be there with him. Plus, it's hard to be confident without knowing that, and it's hard to be good at sex without being confident. So, enthusiasm. And if we can find a groove together, then we can end up places neither of us would have thought of alone, and sex can stay fresh for a long time.

Both can take a wide variety of forms.

One thing I would add about what makes a great lover is the most obvious: communication. The thing that I think a lot of people wrongly assume is that sex is always going to be super hot and super intense. I think the best way to increase intensity more often is to just take a few sessions where things are very scientific: how does this feel? do you like it when I do this? What about this angle? But I have found that very few women ever want that to happen, so that means I have to figure out based on the right kind of moan or the right tone of the "yes" what is working out. That's cool but that also leads to a lot of repetition: She likes X so I will do X.

Suggestion: Find someone who is at least as kinky as you are to begin with.

Harsh comment: Maybe the 10 men never were in to her to the same degree that she was in to them. Once the NRE is done they may have became bored with her. She speaks solely about the sex of her relationships, but nothing about the other aspects. Basing a relationship primarily on sex never bodes well for a long term relationship. Sex and sexual compatibility are important, but they are not normally the be all and end all of long term (assuming exclusivity) relationships.

If you really enjoy being with someone, have a lot of fun together, and have developed a strong mutual bond then your continued sexual gratification should be very important to them. Obviously that hasn't been the case for her.

Good idea surfrat @76. Yes, because women’s socialisation is very repressive around our sexuality, it can be hard to acknowledge a scientific approach.
Little boys have fatties, as I’ve heard them called by kids, allowing them an early connection to their genitals as sexual organs. Being a Catholic girl, I didn’t caress my pleasure zone until after a boy did. Then it took a few years to stumble onto the position where I could reach orgasm during piv, and more after that to perfect a hand job. It’s bs what girls labour under re our desires because we are the ones who get pregnant and unbridled female desire can be very confronting to the social order.

Cont @79; hand jobs on myself I mean.

Wow, I was wondering the same thing as Ms. Cute, but Sublime made me feel much more confident that I am not, in fact, lazy for being on the bottom most of the time if I am still doing a fair share of the moving, grabbing him, talking dirty, move myself when we change positions etc. Apparently the bar is a lot lower than I thought! (Somewhat hypothetical since my husband likes it and he is the only one who actually matters.) Although there is the occasional time when I am too tired to want to do anything and he doesn’t care if I literally just lie there and let him “masturbate into me” so we kink it up by pretending that I actually AM asleep and he doesn’t want to wake me, or that I’m a doll. I don’t have to do anything and he still gets to come so it is a win-win.

Sublime @60: Um, "position," singular? I've pegged in a number of positions, thanks. And yes, you're right -- missionary while holding someone's legs above their shoulders is demanding. This is the only phallused position that I've found more challenging than cowgirl. Get your gal to wear a strap-on and ride it yourself, if you don't believe me. (Note, I've never claimed that this position is TOO challenging for a woman to give it a go for five minutes, unless she is physically disabled. You've just been shagging the wrong women.)

Nocute @52: I don't think there is ANY technique or move that men would universally enjoy. It depends on the man! Ask him! :)

Harriet @54: Cowgirl with feet planted on the floor/bed? Much more difficult than resting on one's knees. The idea of doing some sort of interpretive dance on a guy's cock makes me tired already, and I'm reasonably fit and love sex. And forty minutes!? I'd conclude ten minutes in that she just wasn't in the mood and suggest we watch Netflix. Otherwise, that's what oral sex and/or lube are for.

Sb53 @56: No matter what the position, no one should be holding still entirely! Unless and until it comes time for someone to come, that is. Like some of the men here have stated, I need the guy to slow right down while I'm coming; continued thrusting is a distraction. That said, the pace should be set by the person who's "running the fuck," a great phrase coined, I think, by Nocute? If I'm on top, he should be meeting my thrusts, not overriding them with his harder, faster ones. That said, is it so difficult to, indeed, hold still and suck for a few minutes so that she can get off, if that's how she comes?

Sporty @58: We've been through this. I have a smaller bust size than you thought existed. Dese titties don't bounce. But even for those who do, surely getting sensation at the right pace is more enjoyable than a comedic porno viewing of one's own bouncing boobs, which I understand can actually be quite painful, depending on time of month, etc.

Sublime @63: Not approached her exes AFTERWARDS; tried to change things up with said exes while they were together.

SB @67: Have you tried meeting her thrusts? Is that not fun for both of you?

DonnyK @72: Well, okay. I would agree that "enthusiasm" is a technique that's universally appreciated. :)

Fichu @73: I did see that, but with her "I can only orgasm if I'm in love" figured she was heteroromantic.

Tachy @81: Great approach to maintenance sex!

Harriet @54 cont: Feet on the floor makes more sense for -anal- in the cowgirl/boy position. When it's vaginal sex, your body needs to point forward. It can't do that when you're supporting yourself with your feet.

BiDanFan @83

"Cowgirl with feet planted on the floor/bed? Much more difficult than resting on one's knees"

"When it's vaginal sex, your body needs to point forward. It can't do that when you're supporting yourself with your feet"

Again, I'm gonna disagree. I find feet-on-the-floor cowgirl rather more sustainable, as your body is basically in a full squat, and there's more leverage for lifting and lowering the pelvis. Knees-on-the-floor cowgirl puts the body in an awkward halfway position between a vertical kneel and a sitting kneel, so you feel the burn in your thighs a lot more (incidentally, that's one of my favourite positions for predicament bondage, for precisely that reason: most people start suffering within a minute or two).

Seems more like personal preference to me. We're all built differently.

Margarita @84: Sure, of course! Doesn't your guy's back get awfully sore if you're doing this on the floor? A bed wouldn't seem to be solid enough to support one resting one's weight on one's feet.
Hmm, gonna have to try this on the floor. Perhaps next to the bed so that I can brace myself with an arm; that would help.

Haha, sorry, I didn't mean literally on the floor! Floor OR bed, or whatever flat horizontal surface you're fucking on :) It's usually a bed in my case, though I did once date a guy who preferred to do cowgirl positions on the floor, as I could ride him harder and longer (no bounce from the bed). I guess he was happy to sacrifice a bit of comfort for pleasure :)

@63. Sublime. By 'exes' I mean the men she was dating at the time. She said to them the sex had gotten a lot worse and made suggestions for it to be more engaging for both of them.

My supposition would be that this has happened three, maybe four, times. After abortively starting something more often, and having casual sex with lots more guys, she got into year-long or more relationships on this number of occasions; and all the partnerships met the same fate. I find her letter entirely reasonable. She doesn't want the same thing to happen again when she's ready to nest. Her letter wasn't about any specific situation e.g. she didn't say, 'I really want to keep this guy, but the sex has gone off, as has happened to me before, and I'm at a loss what to do'. I'd put her in her mid- to late-twenties, thinking about breaking an evidently unsuccessful attachment style for the rest of her life.

What I'd say is:

1) the sex goes bad because the rest of the relationship is bad. Don't just make it about sex. The guys who fucked you so disrespectfully didn't want to be with you. Be glad to be free of them;
2) be more demanding about touch, tenderness, human connection and oral in the early stages of a relationship,
and 3) you say you're bi, consider a LTR with a woman.

I draw a different conclusion to you from commenters' collective responses (of which there's a wide spread). To me, they evidence a reluctance to think about class in America. People haven't wanted to say, 'all the men you've been with are crap fucks, smelling of beer, not engaging with you; find some more cultured lovers'. 'Date doctors, lawyers, etc.' And it would be wildly prejudicial to think all, even most, blue-collar guys are as bad in bed as the men she describes. Still, as someone privileged on two fronts, one reason I left the country was the U. S.'s inability to be upfront about facts of class and racial inequality.

Margarita @86: Ah, see, I could picture getting the required purchase from doing it on the floor, but would think it would be hard to keep one's balance on a bed. Don't you need to hold onto something to keep from falling over? Clearly, hands (or feet)-on investigation is required! :-)

@64. Sublime. In terms of the sensation for my dick, the woman kneeling, and resting her weight on her knees, and the woman squatting, with the soles of her feet supporting her, are not the same position. They're both woman-on-top PIV, but have felt completely different. I think Undead may be talking about the same thing as me.

A personal note would be that, when I started having penetrative sex with men (some 12 years before I started fucking women), the intensity of sensation on my prostate was always far greater than in my dick (and was psychologically more involving). I was curious whether I would experience more penile sensation in straight sex. Yes, sometimes.

@74. JuanMas. You could be right.

@All. I had a vague idea that straight sex was gymnastic and technical where MM was 'basic', but the comments are disabusing me of this.

Obviously the best, most rounded, human answer to 'what makes a good lover?' is 'an enthusiastic, engaged communicator'. Like, a subset of 'a good person'. I thought the original question more interesting: are there specific features of men's bodies, and their feelings about them, that might not be apparent to their female partners?

BiDanFan@88, I usually use my arms to lean on partner's body to some extent, holding on to either their chest or their thighs (obviously this changes the angle of penetration quite a bit). This helps with both balance and weight distribution. But leaning onto the bedframe or the wall would also work if you wanted to stay in a more upright position. The more I think about it, the more obvious it becomes that individual anatomies would play a huge part in this - how wide/heavy your pelvis is, how long your arms and legs are, how strong your quads are, how your and your partner's genitals lock together...

Anyway, good luck with your empirical research! Please report back with your findings :)

@82. Bi. 'Interpretive dance on a man's cock'!!. Yes, that's what would get me going :) . You're right that, in my mind, it was a specific and more tiring position. Lava is right that it's less common than kneeling.

I was interested that cis women don't characteristically take half an hour plus to get going. My first fuckbuddy relationship with a woman who was slow to kindle in that way--for whom sex was a broadly humanly integral experience, with lots of talking, reminiscing, storytelling; she had only been in FF relationships before, though was cock-fixated. She had an absolute disidentification from men emotionally. We were transitional figures for each other. She's now married to a man. The sex was typically over an hour of non-genital contact before 'sex sex'. We spoke about workplace politics (we worked for different parts of a huge company, like Google--but not Google). I loved it because the whole experience was feminising, however heterosexual. No thrusting.

It’s clearly given me an idea that tender, thoughtful touching is de rigueur for straight women in bed more than it is. Of course I later had lusty, importunate sex with women.

Fan @82, reading some of these men’s comments it sounds like a few pillow princesses are in the mix.

@42 BiDanFan
"Yes. A million times, yes. When thrusting, you are moving your hips back and forth. An easy motion. When on top, you are using your thigh muscles to lift and lower your entire torso. This is far more physically demanding."

Exactly what I always thought.

After a little testing, I think ergonomics is another issue. One can move up/down vastly more easily with one's legs more extended, than one can with one's genitals closer to one's feet. So I'm guessing woman-on-top would be vastly easier with the penis/strapon-bearer on their back on a bench (like a weight bench) so the woman's legs were more extended. (I don't know my physiology, but...) It seems to me that with legs more extended one is using the whole legs, but with genitals close to one's feet it seems to be just the muscles in my groin area that are called upon to do all the work. I guess eventually their fitness level would improve with practice, but for me being on top (thrusting back and forth, yes, easier than up/down) is vastly easier.

Oh, and count me in for interpretive dance!

Yes, the bouncing breasts as a woman rides a cock.. I was lucky pre menopause, I had small ish breasts.. then wham, after The Change, a whole new look.

Sb53@56.. agree with Fan @82.. you staying still would be contributing to losing your erection, and Fan’s description of how it should play, the man’s thrusts working in with andnot over riding the woman being the jockey, are true.
Tell Miss N she can’t have it both ways.. either you’re allowed to under-thrust, or she won’t get much of a ride.

@83 @BiDanFan - Feet on the floor is a favorite of mine, though I can't do it for all that long because it's very demanding. It's close to cowgirl, but not cowgirl. It's a squatting position and you're mostly supporting your body with your thighs, raising and lowering yourself.

Maybe LW could try finding partners with compatible kinks from the beginning or just embrace serial monogamy to keep riding the NRE wave but with different partners. Or maybe she can find a way to periodically introduce new things, preferably beginning earlier than a year in, that doesn't result in partners feeling pressured by expectations. I don't know how she's rolling this stuff out, but partners are expressing they feel pressured, so something may be off in the delivery.

Re cowgirl,
There are areas of my body that feel more sexual to be touched, but also muscles of my body that feel more sexual when used. There is a part of my abs that I can rhythmically clench that makes it very very easy to orgasm if the mental (like ecstacy or coke) or physical (like clit licking) stimulation is there. Clenching abs, or pelvic thrusting seems to be a really common sex muscle. Thighs are not very sexy muscles for me to work with, and alternating is better than simultaneous clenching. Biceps and hands are so so. Feet contractions are unusually sexual to me.

So I do cowgirl torso to torso, or with both sitting up for large amplitude, so my clit head gets action the whole time. When I want to pull way back and look at him I keep my abs going and grind to keep from getting bored and out of it, the amplitude gets tiny and more like a pussy hug for him. The thigh bouncy thing that people are describing sounds like something to do to keep from coming or upon request.. It takes time and effort without much reward for my body, and it is the easy sex that gets the most repetition.. I do lots of things that aren't going to get me off that he enjoys, but probably only because I see that he is willing to do the same for me.

And I thought LW should get to know herself and her lover's bodies better. Maybe create a better map of their mental sexuality too? And learn to talk about her needs and expectations with sex at least. And refuse sex that she does not enjoy, if she is that desperate she should have opened the relationship up or broken up already.

Maybe I missed it among all the verbiage,but a useful variation to consider on the "suffered a series of unfortunate romantic events" angle is whether there is something in your emotional makeup that influences you to keep picking guys like this. Sure, you experienced the misfortune of one shitty lover after another, but you chose every last one of them. They didn't show up on your doorstep, one after the next, in wicker baskets with a note pinned to their blankies. Your personal shopper didn't bring them home for your approval. You did.

Maybe it's that all three and a half billion straight guys don't give a fuck, or maybe it's -- and both the evidence and Occam's Razor suggest this -- that you personally are shitty at picking good ones out of the pool.

Harriet @90: Yup, sorry to burst your bubble. Perhaps the sex you had with women was rare, therefore experimental, for you both, and therefore "let's try all these different things" was the way they went. This is not typical after the couple-hundredth time you fuck someone with opposite genitalia. :-)

Margarita @91: In pondering this, I thought that perhaps one could hold one's partner's hands to keep balance too. I will gladly report back with my findings after this weekend! :-)

Curious @94: Now I want a weight bench! That indeed would ease the pressure on the knees, which is what strikes me as the impractical issue with this position (that plus the balance). Reverse cowgirl position also works on a couch, for those of us who don't own weight benches. Same concept: feet on the floor, knees slightly bent, more thigh work but no stiff knees.

Lava @96: Indeed, some of that dreaded communication seems to be in order here. If she can't come while SB is moving, they both move together and she tells him when she's ready to come so he can hold still while she grinds her way to her orgasm. Good luck, Mr and Mrs SB! Please do also report back with your findings, in the spirit of the thread. :D

Philo @99: "it is the easy sex that gets the most repetition." You're dead right; and as it's generally easier for the man to thrust in het sex, most of the sex men have with women features men in the active positions, and so they do end up doing most of the work. I've rarely heard them complaining about this, however! And if you (general you) get tired, just ask for a position change, or even an activity change. Tired of fucking? She's already come enough times to be satisfied? Ask for a hand or blow job, or masturbate over her tits. Any GGG woman would be happy to do this, rather than continue to be subjected to lacklustre fucking that's no longer enthusiastic enough to get either of you off.

@101 BiDanFan
"Now I want a weight bench!"

I know, right? Someday maybe weight benches will be a standard bedroom accessory.

Yes Philo @99; sitting up or being on a reclining chair, upright to start and then half tilted back. Not being a tall woman, legs fit fine around a reclining chair, not fussed with feet on the floor; you’re right, different muscles in play. Thigh bouncing? No..never have done that one.

I’d have thought thrusting a hard cock would be fun. It’s been my experience that I’ve moved and put in as much energy as the male.
Surfrat’s idea of getting a little scientific with new lovers could bypass all the guessing that goes on.

@101. Bi. I'm having happier sex than at any time in my life. I wouldn't have had the confidence to post on here five years ago (in my mid-40s!) for the possibly stupid reason that I thought I didn't know enough about sex... (and also was busier at work). It looks as if I will go through life without my main or any exclusive sexual partnership being with a woman. There are perhaps three ciswomen I have loose FWB relationships with, fewer than men; and I wouldn't want to add women specifically. The thing that's made the big difference, fairly late in my sex life, is mixed grouping at a friend's house / dungeon, with a more queer than kinky set.