Savage Love Dec 4, 2018 at 4:00 pm

Cringe and Purge

Joe Newton



Griz on a roll?


Good luck to HARDPART in finding a good urologist and to LEAP in finding a good German stud.


LEAP: Is your ass ready to be fucked? Before uttering those fateful words, "Fick mich in den Arsch," and then douching (or perhaps the other way around?), you really should make sure your ass is prepped. Fingers, butt plugs, all the usual practice. Don't go from zero to sixty in one ass fucking.


I agree, you better start working up to that German stud. Just because you want to get fucked in the ass doesn't mean your ass is ready to be fucked.


I have to agree with @3 fubar and @4 surfrat, however: LEAP, make sure your ass is ready to get fucked by a German stud before proceeding any further.


LEAP - before taking the big (drum roll please) LEAP into anal you might want to get your tush ready for the push. The first time can be painful if you aren't prepared! Maybe some anal play with your wife? Or a smallish strap-on for her to wear and you to enjoy a few times before your trip? Good luck and have fun!


LOL ... I hadn't read the other comments. 😅


P.S. you need to be super relaxed and very horny so your sphincter doesn't (painfully) spasm


Why is LEAP in an unhappy marriage? Isn't the leap he should be thinking of making out of it?


LEAP: Like good regular car maintenance, get well lubed first before you cruise the boulevard.


If his wife genuinely doesn't care whom he fucks, then it would seem that sexual fidelity is a long way down her list of priorities because, in her eyes, he neglects her or fails her or they clash in other ways.


LEAP doesn't have to say anything about "in the ass" to his escort. Just "fuck me" will suffice. He should also make it clear that it's his first time and book enough time for a decent preparation.


Agreeing with 12: find yourself an English-speaking escort and tell them that you're trying it out for the first time.


Exciting LEAP, going to Berlin. Re the ethical question, your wife says she doesn’t want an open marriage yet also says she doesn’t care who you fuck. She’s contradicting herself here, was either statement said during arguments? Sounds like you two are on life support, and I’ll agree with Dan, she’s not fussed if you go fuck yourself by the sound of it.


If LW2 takes a side trip to Paris will he be playing leap frog? Just wondering...


Regarding HARDPART: He only mentions pain once, in the context of "painfully 'cringey'." I interpreted this as psychological pain, not physical pain. The urologist interpreted this as physical pain and gave advice accordingly, but I think that's off the mark.
If it's really psychological pain, then the guy's problems lie elsewhere. Maybe it's a more simple case of comes-quick/feels-bad-about-not-satisfying-his-partner. Handjobs and blowjobs can be more cringe-free, since you usually don't have any expectations of getting your partner off. The only fly in my theory's ointment is the cringing while using Fleshlight. Maybe that cringing is for a different reason?


“This too-intense feeling makes me stop moving when I come, which is not satisfying at all.”

I wonder what HARDPART finds unsatisfying about slowing his movements while orgasming from vaginal sex? Especially since that isn’t a problem for him during oral or manual stimulation.

Personally, continuing move during my orgasm takes away from the moment. Allowing my body to relax, exhale, while focusing on the particular contractions of ejaculating, as well as the feel of her body and my body, produce a more enjoyable orgasm than thrusting away would do.


Agree with @17, but from the vagina-haver's perspective in the PIV. My current boyfriend is more like this than anyone I've had sex with, but it is not at all uncommon for men to experience oversensitivity during and/or after orgasm. I know I'm far from the only female who has that happen to her clit, and they are in many ways analogous structures. I've always taken it as the same reaction. And I have never been unhappy at a guy slowing down for a bit near the end (for him). If I am really, really close I may take the initiative for a couple more grinds to get there, but I certainly don't need constant jackhammering to enjoy myself. I fear that HARDPART may be worrying too much about the porn-based assumption that he needs to be slammin' his lady love like a mechanized meat tenderizer in order to be doing sex right. If he really doesn't enjoy stopping moving, that's one thing. But to me it rather sounded like HARDPART wasn't talking about his personal satisfaction so much as some Platonic ideal of "satisfying". Which, with sex, is not a thing. Thank heavens.


Really? A penis expert and she didn't ask whether HARDPART is circumcised? My first thought was that enthusiastic thrusting is pulling on his foreskin, and that's where the pain and "cringing" are coming from. If this is a problem he might consider circumcision.
Other thoughts:
- Is he using condoms? Thicker condoms might aid in both delaying his orgasm and holding his theoretical foreskin in place.
- It's 100% normal to stop thrusting when having an orgasm, so HARDPART needs to take this phenomenon of his list of sexual problems. He might try pulling out and jacking over her tits/bum. There is no requirement for a man's orgasm to happen inside the woman.
- He says holding still when he comes isn't satisfying -- satisfying for whom, him or his partner? He's coming, so surely it's satisfying for him? And surely he's satisfied her some other way? Simultaneous orgasms may be considered the pinnacle of sex but they are really quite rare, so he needs to stop thinking they're necessary for "satisfying" PIV.

Good luck, HARDPART.

LEAP, why don't you ask your wife to fuck you in the ass?


*off his list.


BDF @19 "He's coming, so surely it's satisfying for him?"

Not necessarily. "Ruined orgasm" is a thing in the BDSM world. My interpretation of his "This too-intense feeling makes me stop moving when I come, which is not satisfying at all" is that it is like a BDSM "ruined orgasm", but unwanted.
What this "intense cringey sensation" when he comes, is, I have no idea. Maybe other penis-having commenters do?


@19. Bi asks a good question.

My take might be that LEAP has analyzed his desire so that, manageably, it's broken down into three problem areas: the legal, the practical and the ethical. This is a way of his avoiding thinking about where he is in his life or his marriage. In one sense, the people giving him practical advice e.g. accustom your butt to insertions, are being respectful, in limiting themselves to the question asked. In another, the advice is superficial.

I'd guess LEAP is being practical-minded because he doesn't want to reflect on whether he's been suppressing his homo- or bisexuality for all these years. Well, I don't think he has to. He can take it up the ass more than once without giving up his straight identity--and, supposing he comes round to negotiating this, without violating the terms of his marriage. Rather than just telling LEAP e.g. to go for the small butt-plug first, I want to say that a happier life, a life with more integrity and pleasure, is possible--with or without regular anal sex.


@21. Registered European. An intense orgasm (what used to be called a 'bone-shaker') is not unlike a feeling of cringing, shrinking or forcibly withdrawing into yourself. So I first thought that HARDPART was unaccustomed to coming. But this can't quite be it. He comes happily in other contexts. He's had a lifetime of the problem. And the cringing feeling is painful, not just jarring--strained or uncomfortable, besides being relieving. There must be a medical issue--he should investigate his pelvic floor nerves. It must be a frustrating problem to have; good luck to him.


Lava @14: Good point about the context of these "I don't care who you fuck" comments. If said in anger, she may in fact not have meant them. However, she did say them on several occasions, so I think LEAP is fine to take her at her word for this one-off experience which she'll never find out about anyway.

RE @21: I have experienced an unpleasant orgasm, so I get you. Too much sensation too quickly; it was effective but unpleasant. Perhaps that's similar to a "cringey" sensation? I admit I couldn't picture what that would feel like, either.

Harriet @22: LEAP doesn't have a "straight identity." He identifies as "mostly straight." Having a fling with a man wouldn't compromise a "mostly straight" identity. To answer my own question, my theories are that either he has asked Wife to peg him and she's not interested, or that he really wants to tick "get fucked by a man" off his bucket list. If neither of these apply, and he just wants the sensation of anal sex, he could try asking the wife. It would be helpful to know why their marriage is so rocky -- sexual incompatibilities or other?


Dan says
"She also doesn't want to know if you fuck someone else."
but I agree with other commenters, the LW did not say that.

@17 SublimeAfterglow
"I wonder what HARDPART finds unsatisfying about slowing his movements while orgasming from vaginal sex?"

He did not say that. Right in the sentence you quoted he said it "makes me stop moving". 'Stopping' isn't "slowing".

And (quoting @22 Registered European) they call stopping movement "Ruined orgasm" because (for me and I presume most) during male orgasm there is the potential for a vast amount of pleasurable sensation IF ONE MOVES, which is completely lost if one doesn't move at all. Oh, the orgasm still feels a little good with zero motion during orgasm, but just like 0.2% as good.


@25/curious: The point is that he wants to continue thrusting through his orgasm, rather than dial back the intensity by slowing down as his orgasm approached, and then resting during his orgasm allowing his body to relax.

That’s all right there in my comment too.


@26 SublimeAfterglow
That was his point, but not yours.

"That’s all right there in my comment too."

Nope it wasn't. Be honest.


"This too-intense feeling makes me stop moving when I come, which is not satisfying at all."

Here's a thought: The sensation is too intense for him to keep moving, because it distracts him from anything else including willing his hips -- or hand, while using the fleshlight -- to keep moving. (I can relate.) But if he's not moving, he doesn't get much out of the orgasm. Possible solution: cowgirl position, where SHE is doing the moving? All he has to do is lie there and come, milked by her thrusting. Worth a try?


@25/curious: I think I’m the best judge of my intent, and my comments are wholly consistent. And really, given your propensity for confused thoughts, multiple brackets, and pseudo-intellectual comments, do you really think you should be commenting on the clarity of my writing?


@14 Those are not contradictory statements. To the LW's wife, an open marriage likely means him/them having regular sex on the side, talking about it, her potentially meeting his FWB, him forming an emotional attachments etc. She may not care about the occasional one-off that she doesn't know about but not want to deal with any of the drama/time that can come with an open marriage. That's a legitimate GGG way of handling a partner's kink that you don't share. "Don't get involved in anything serious and don't bring me into it but do what you have to do."

I will say that I can't see it going well. If he likes it, he's going to want to do it again. He's going to want to share that with her if the marriage is strong and important. That's going to create conflict. But hey, maybe he won't like it. Especially if he doesn't think about prep, like he seems to be doing.


@29 SublimeAfterglow
"I’m the best judge of my intent"

I wasn't commenting @25 about your intent, I was pointing out (not just a lack of "clarity") an error of yours.

Maybe I wouldn't have bothered if you weren't consistently such an idiot asshole towards me.


Sublime @29: No one else can read your intent, only your words. Just saying.

Larry @30: "If he likes it, he's going to want to do it again."
Yup, I had that thought as well -- then it will be a different letter, "How do I ask my wife to open our marriage to same-sex lovers for me?" Because if this does become more than a one-time ticking of a box, there will be risk factors that she's entitled to know about. "She said she didn't care" (and agreed, that's not the same thing as saying she doesn't want to know) may be an adequate cop-out for a one-time fantasy fulfilment, but not for an ongoing double life.

I do think LEAP won't have much trouble finding non-coerced, English-speaking sex workers in Hamburg. He should communicate with them in advance about his lack of experience and ask them to bring some different sized toys, and possibly some weed or poppers to help him relax.


Ms Fan - Well spotted on the opening of #19.

As for your closing question, my first of several possible guesses (this letter could truly inspire one's inner Ariadne Oliver) is that an apathetic spousal partnership isn't the best setting for an activity one had long wanted to try, and which might hold some significance in one's mind. My second guess is close to yours. I'd not frame it as a bucket list item, but think LW to be among those who might voice modern non-binary orthodoxy but not really feel it in his gut, and just hold an instinctive connection between the activity and men.

In a way, it makes me think a little of Gordon Merrick's Charlie-and-Peter trilogy, with its attributing almost magical significance to the Top/Bottom roles.


Larrystone @30; surely before one can fuck whoever one wants, the marriage needs to be open? Yes, I get your point; I’m not sure Ms LEAP was really thinking thru what she was saying.
This marriage sounds kaput, so the LW throwing in his wife’s disjointed statements proves nothing about her real intent. If they are just using each other to keep a house going, why does he even bother about the ethics?
His wife has given him mixed messages, that’s how I read it.


Don’t lie to yourself LEAP, or the experience in Berlin with be tinged with guilt. If your wife is so unfazed about who you share your sex with, why not tell her your intentions re your trip? It all sounds furtive and piecemeal, you sure that’s how you want to feel going away. Not what I’d want for myself embarking on a very new sexual behaviour.


Has LEAP left off the we’ve got three small children info? If so, a revised response would be required. If these two have no kids, then why stay in such an unhappy sounding marriage.


Geez Fan @19, obvious you don’t have a cock. Suggesting a circumcision for a grown man. Ouch.


Totally off-topic comment: recently I no longer see the comments symbol at the bottom of the SL page. I can still find comments by physically typing in (backslash comments) at the end of the url, but I don't see the little cartoon speaking-bubble image. I assume y'all still do, or you wouldn't be commenting, but I mention it for the SLOG tech guys. I'm on a Mac running 10.13, using Chrome.


@19 I was thinking the same thing, but from the other perspective. If HARDPART is cut super tight, PIV sex might be causing a super-gasm, (from position, excitement, whatever), and there's not enough skin for his shaft to be comfortable.


When I was younger, I too used to get a “cringey” sensation while having sex, but it was usually after the beer goggles wore off and I was reminded why it’s not a good idea to pick up a fuck buddy at last call in a dimly-lit bar.


"Cringe" is usually a word that describes a mental feeling, not a somatic feeling. Its usage here doesn't make sense.

It's also used to describe a particular body posture, but that application makes even less sense.

We have almost no idea what HARDPART means by "cringey," except that he is experiencing something "too intense" "painfully," perhaps mentally and perhaps physically.

If you don't ask the right questions, it's difficult to get the right answers. His lack of vocabulary is cringe-worthy.


Except Dadddy he says it happens with a Fleshlight too! Maybe it's a very special interest vagina dentata fleshlight (I don't expect they would sell many of those).


Dan, and/or Dr. Winter -- the word you want is "flare."

Pain flares (like a fire or flame.) "Flair" refers to style or talent (Dan has a flair for advice-giving!), or a certain Nature-Boy wrestler.


@45 The Wild Sow: Awesome catch!


Lava @38: The only person I -would- suggest circumcision for is a grown man, who is experiencing problems due to having a foreskin that the removal of the foreskin would solve, and who made his own medically informed decision. I've known a few of these. Thank you for the opportunity to clarify my position on circumcision.

Donny @41: Bwahaha!


The man is just on sixty Fan, surely if the issue was his foreskin he’d have worked that out by now. That’s if he’s uncircumcised and that’s probably unlikely. You’re right, it should only be done by an adult, making his own decision. Barbaric practice.


@24. Bi. I agree--the natural thing to do with this desire would be to ask his wife.

I think relations between them are bad, strained or carefully civil on the day-to-day level. He doesn't want to jeopardise the thin surface of her goodwill. What does his understanding of 'mostly straight' mean? Has he just (it won't necessarily mean 'just' for him) sucked off a few guys in college, or is he having gay (or any) encounters while he's married? Does his wife's 'tolerant posture' mean turning a blind eye to these?

Maybe the thing to do is to separate this overwhelming desire and his day-to-day life. Just go out, go to Germany and take it up the ass. Then think about the rest of his life (I'm sort of going back on my own advice here). But he has to think about the rest of his life, right?

@39. ciods. Ad-blocker programs interpret it as an ad (?). Running SL in an incognito window brings back the ads and this symbol for me.


@42. kitschnsynk. I think 'cringe' does describe a somatic feeling--of spontaneously withdrawing from shaking pain. Many of us have tried to understand what he's talking about by considering our own orgasmic sensations. I'm not sure we've gotten anywhere--because HARDPART has a particular physical issue. He should see a urologist.


Harriet @49: "is he having gay (or any) encounters while he's married?"
The answer to this question, at least, is no: "She has on several occasions told me that she doesn't care who I fuck. While I haven't acted on it..."
Whether she knows he's not entirely straight is a different question. As is, HOW is the marriage bad? As discussed on today's daily thread, many people have terrible relationships where the sex is great (as opposed to the more frequently seen on SL other way round). What prompted Mrs LEAP's statements about not caring who he fucks? We really haven't been told squat about what his sex life with his wife is like. It might be the only thing keeping these two together, or it might be nonexistent.


@51. Bi. I thought that maybe he cheated, or emotionally cheated, on her before she said this; and her response was that cheating wasn't (or wouldn't have been) the main issue, but rather his not engaging with, not caring for her. Here's what he said:

"After ... many near-divorce situations, my wife and I have adopted a more tolerant (or more apathetic) posture toward each other. She has on several occasions told me that she doesn't care who I fuck. While I haven't acted on it..."

What is a near-divorce 'situation'? A situation implies some sort of event or crisis. If their relationship is habitually bad, or seized-up e.g. they don't talk to each other; she raises an important issue for her and he slouches off to his den and turns on the football; he raises an important issue for him and she Facetimes her mother for three hours, then that's not a 'situation', until someone forces it--says it can't continue, or it's breakup time. So something happened, and it sounds to me as if it involved (in her eyes) his neglect or disloyalty.

I would be surprised if the couple have more than maintenance sex.

The person who has spoken with most integrity is Lava, in saying that she wouldn’t want to embark on something new, sexually, without wanting to feel clear in her mind that everything back home i.e. in her relationship was in order. The LW doesn't have this sort of integrity; many coupled straight guys don't--their ideas of sex are more furtive.


He says he's married 'to a woman'. That's it. Of all the things he could have said. '...To a woman whom I no longer love but whom I'm staying with for the sake of my three children, 12, 10 and 7'.... 'To a woman I still esteem, find a good mother, but have a hard time finding attractive'. '...To a woman I love but am not in love with'. (OK; a woman, and not a man, would have come up with that last one). Why the excisions? Because he doesn't want to invite consideration of his life, in case it gets in the way of the eye-popping ass-exploration he's proposing for himself in Europe. This suggests guilt, but more than that, repression or exhaustion. And perhaps he's guilty about things for which guilt is unnecessary--for not pushing on with his career when he didn't want to; for hanging out with old buddies his wife finds infra dig? There is no need to linger in (not to leave, or seek to improve) a relationship where both parties have lapsed into a disapproving 'apathetic' withdrawal from each other.


M?? Harriet - Why would a man not come up with the idea of loving but not being in love with somebody? You've apparently known very few gays if you meant that seriously.


@49 Harriet_by_the_bulrushes
"@39. ciods. Ad-blocker programs interpret it as an ad (?). Running SL in an incognito window brings back the ads and this symbol for me."

Adblock Plus 3.4.2 lets me see the button to go to the Comment page. Like ciods my browser is Chrome (but on Windows not Mac).


Ms Fan - Thank you for reminding me that I meant to throw in another post yesterday wondering whether it would be that easy to find fortyish male sex workers anywhere. Are they that common in general, or would you call that peculiar to Germany?


Venn @56: By odd coincidence I was visiting a friend in Germany a couple of years back, who was lamenting the lack of potential FWBs and wondering whether an escort was the answer. So I indeed have direct experience of googling male escorts in Germany in particular and know for sure that LEAP can find what he's looking for there -- though I don't expect it would be terribly difficult in any European country. Fun tidbit: German slang, or possibly mistranslation, for an escort who will serve both genders is "humid." :)


@54. Venn. Yes. Thank you for the correction. I was thinking just of straight husbands and straight wives when I made that undue generalisation.

@55. curious. Then I don't know what it is. The comments page is inaccessible on Chrome and Firefox for me when I run AdBlock.


Mrs Fan - Thank you for the information. I suppose that's a net positive.


This dude's getting divorced if he has sex with the escort. Mark it.


@42 I used to experience a "cringey" feeling during orgasm when in my 20s. I'm female. It took me a long time to figure out that it was the pain of all of the bottled up emotions about my lover, myself and my life I didn't know how to manage or even feel in ordinary circumstances. Release in this case threatened to be far more than physical, and it was extremely uncomfortable.


@57 BiDanFan: German escorts who will serve both genders described as hot and steamy---I love it!

Congrats in advance to this week's Lucky @69 Award winner!


@55: Thanks, curious! Was wondering what was up.


As the site (probably wisely) is not opening the interview with that director of the conversion therapy film to comments, I shall just state here that I am disgusted by the decision to paint the parents as sympathetic characters and frame the whole as a reconciliation spectacle. It is one thing for the betrayed person to opt for that as the least bad option, quite another to create artwork that will be used in attempts to pressure others of us submitted against our will to that unspeakable practice to wave away the harm. By all means present the parents as not-monsters, but this goes considerably too far. It makes me think of John Wesley Harding's song entitled "Hitler's Tears"; such parents may well have their pain, but they have forfeited any right to its being recognized, let alone honoured.


Dadddy @66 Not sure if that's a good idea for this LW. He is in a better position to negotiate for, and get, exactly what he wants, if he is a paying customer and the other guy a professional.


.....aaaaand this week's Lucky @69 Award winner is........(drumroll, please).........


@69: Congratulations, Dadddy on scoring the highly coveted lUcky y@69 Award! May an abundant cache of riches come your way soon. Savor it wisely.


@70: Good grief, the typos! Make that ...."Lucky @69 Award".
And most embarrassingly, Griz has consumed no alcohol yet today!
Anyway, Congratulations, Dadddy!


Dadddy @69 (congrats!): How hard can it be to get a fuck? Very easy. How hard can it be to find someone who will be patient and respectful and willing to call the whole thing off, without pouting, if things don't work? I'm with RE: you get what you pay for. Escort sounds like the way to go.


Hunter @78 LEAP is no closet case. He calls himself "mostly straight". If he called himself "completely straight" you would have a point.


While I applaud LEAP for his adventuresome spirit, that's not my thing.

I'd rather have a Dick's hamburger than a Hamburger's dick.


Hunter78 @76: "Hiding"? Hardly. Marriage to an opposite-sex person does not negate a not-straight sexual orientation. Just because outsiders can't see it doesn't mean it's not there. And it is most probably the case, given her "I don't care who you fucks," that his drive for het sex is stronger than hers. Sorry, there are no closet cases in this week's round of letters. Can't believe I have nothing better to do than feed the troll.


As a woman, I've had the "cringey" feeling many times, and I don't believe it has anything to do with pelvic floors. Usually the sensations are just too intense and hard and someone/somevibrator is pressing too hard right on my clit, which drives me wild but ends in the painful orgasm. I have described it as cringey as well, in that as you go for the final moments, you cringe at the same time knowing the mixture of pain and pleasure that is about to overtake you, and not in a good BDSM way. I agree on the penis numbing spray and think it is the best suggestion in the post. He already states he comes too fast - his sensitivity is just really high and it doesn't take much stimulation to be "extra". The spray would address both issues. The viagra? I think that's off base and would just make the situation worse.


"Cringey" certainly describes me, too--mostly due to a much healthier but tender pelvic floor and tissues.


HARDPART here. Thanks for all the comments.

It’s interesting to hear from men who stop moving when they come during PIV and are happy doing that. I just did an experiment (thank you, Fleshlight) and found that stopping movement during my climax wasn’t so bad. I’ll have to keep playing with that approach.

The discomfort I referred to in my question for Dan is oversensitivity of the outer edge of my (cut) cock head. I imagine it’s similar to what some women feel with not wanting their clit stimulated directly at or just after their climax.

The initial problem I had when I was young was coming quickly, before I had built up much sexual tension. Men are different from women in that they can squirt without a big build-up of sexual excitement/energy sometimes. Which is not nearly as fun and satisfying as with a longer build-up.

Soon I started experiences going soft after a bit though I was hard when I entered a woman. Then, with one girlfriend (who I was very attracted to) I got soft at the point I was about to enter her.

So, over the years I lost my sexual confidence more and more.

Dan’s suggestion to stick to outersex is not ideal. I’m not good at finding partners and this would seem to rule out a lot of women. And I’d like to learn to enjoy PIV more for my own sake. It can be a wonderfully intimate and mutual thing (as I’m sure most of you hetero’s can attest to).

I had asked a urologist about this, but he seemed shy about it! So, I guess I’ll try another one just to be sure, though, based on my history, I doubt there’s a medical problem.

As far as being influenced by porn, no it’s just that I hate having to be so careful not to move as I come to avoid any unpleasant overstimulation. And I don’t have to completely stop moving during manual or oral sex and it’s nice to keep moving my hips then. Also, the one time I was able to do that without any bad sensation during PIV, I liked being able to move, instead of freezing the movement.


Thanks for writing in, HARDPART -- shame most commenters will miss it. A shy urologist! He's in the wrong field. I guess you have your answer -- accept and embrace that you're one of the many men who must stop, or almost stop, moving when he comes in order to avoid overstimulation. This may not be ideal for you but it's perfectly normal, so go with it, and you won't dread orgasm and come too quickly or go soft. Good luck to you.


@BiDanFan -- Thank you for the comment. Good summation. Learn to accept, work with, and find ways to enjoy our own personal sexual response. Good advice for us all!


@80: However late into the comment thread, thank you for joining us, HARDPART. Good luck with finding enjoyable PIV sex.


@auntie grizelda--Thank you!

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