Savage Love

Loaded Question



THEFT: so sorry for your losses and the trauma. There are some fucking fuckers out there.


Can someone confirm that edging actually produces a substantially larger load? The prostate isn't exactly a limitless reservoir, so I'm not seeing how this would be physically possible.


Been edging for YEARS, makes zero difference for my load size. And for the record, it’s barely even a kink...unless you do it right.


Elements of WOOD’s letter (the one starting with “let’s say…”) ranked in inverse order of likelihood of existence anywhere other than in his imagination:
• upcoming coffee date
• conversation with specific woman on Tinder about potential physical relationship
• specific woman on Tinder
• active presence on Tinder
• sincere concern about possible negative reaction to volume of semen
• unusually robust semen production due to edging
• edging quasi-fetish


Confirmed: edging is an official kink, with 12,187 people "getting their kink on" at Fetlife.


@1 fubar re THEFT: Agreed and seconded.
@THEFT: In fervent agreement with fubar (@1), I'm really sorry about your painful losses and your equally traumatic rape experience. Nobody should have to go through that. As a veteran and rape survivor, myself, I send virtual hugs and positrons of support and empathy. I hope everything gets better for you soon.


What kind of fucking asshole steals someone's dogs. I know this happens a lot and it seems to me (a guy whose not prone to violence) that dog theft should lead to the chopping off of hands. The vibrators can be replaced (although I don't mean that to minimize the LW's trauma--past and present) but the dog theft means a family member has been taken.


@2 @3 when stimulated sexually, the make reproductive system produces more prostate secretions, but apparently not more seminal fluid, from what googling tells me (some info came from Britannica, some from a doctor on a medical q and a site). Ejaculate is apparently 60% seminal fluid / 30% prostate secretions (the other 10 is other secretions and sperm, I assume). Seminal fluid does build up over time though.

I'd hazard a goes that edging could add a significant proportion of prostate secretions. The concept certainly jives with experience, but I doubt many guys are out there measuring volumes.


@8 hexalm: Actually, in regards to male ejaculatory volumes, waaaaaaay back towards the very beginning of Dan's Savage Love column, a question was once raised on how many quarts of sperm were wiped on Kleenex tissues annually. It extended all the way to ' many trees (cut down and made into Kleenex tissue) is that? (signed, 'Tree-hugger Tim'). The initial question led to about 20 more. I believe Dan went so far as to ask a representative from Kimberly-Clark about such statistics, but I don't think he ever heard back (it also helps having my own autographed copy of Savage Love (c.1998), Dan's first published book from his sex advice column. You can find the original letter and Dan's response there).


THEFT, it may have been the realization that a sex-connected possession was taken from you to drive home the sense of being violated, and perhaps it was the most likely item to trigger your sense of helplessness, but having your home invaded is a significant violation - you are supposed to feel safe and secure in your home - so you would have been no less entitled to feel your sense of violation rekindled by the loss of any other item. Your boyfriend sounds like he is doing what he can, but he is not equipped to provide you with the mental health support you need, so speak with a professional.

I have had some partners who are interested in some forewarning about when I am going to come in their mouths, but even that need abates as they get to know my body and can sense when I am going to climax without being alerted. I suspect that is true for most blow job givers.

Even the largest load of semen is a fraction of what anyone routinely puts in their mouth, and in a vagina, most semen will leak out anyway.


THEFT, I have no useful advice, but I am so sorry for your loss. What a dreadful experience for you.


Adding my sympathy and well wishes for THEFT. A grief counselor may be able to help. I agree, anyone who steals dogs (!!!) deserves rabies! I hope they maul the thieves in their sleep. And stealing sex toys! There is no market for used sex toys so clearly the thieves only did this for a laugh.

Nothing to add about WOOD. I wish Dan had saved that rerun for next week when I'll be away!


@7 They may not have been directly stolen but fled an unsecured house while (or after) the thieves were there. I had that happen to a friend and seen multiple other accounts of it happening. There's also the possibility they were (or just looked like) a certain breed and the thieves figured they'd sell the dogs for cash. Either way it's cruel as hell. That's something I'd never be able to recover from and my heart goes out to THEFT.


TIGHTHOLE--the lowest bound for the range of 'how many more times should I try?' is zero. Don't try again if you don't feel like it. The idea that it's some part of moral virtue for gays to be vers is an unfortunate one. (Strangely, it can be misogynistic). Gay life--any sexual life--is about complementarity--one person liking giving, another liking taking. You're a happy, proficient top. That's rarer than a hot ass. Let the bottoms bottom and enjoy the look on their faces (afterwards) when you top them.


TIGHTHOLE: "But no matter what, I never seem to get past the pain and into the pleasure zone."

The wording here--"past the pain"--makes me wonder if LW is under the false impression that pleasure is a reward that eventually comes after muscling through introductory pain. In which case, he should know that pain is not something to be endured and it won't get better if it starts with pain. At the first sign of pain--STOP.


In this week's episode the tired and trite sex columnist wearily attempts to elicit clicks with yet another column about ejaculate.


Tighthole: as an uptight female learning to receive anal has been challenging for me, too. After many years of trying I would say a butt plug is the key. Very important to stretch out the hole & then it’s quite pleasurable. Don’t give up, you can do it!


WOOD's letter makes me want to scream. He's so obsessed over the size of his load (reminds me of Victorian porn where a man boasted of "flooding" his lady's quim ... yeah, right?).

Even if it's only a Tinder date, is WOOD not going to use a condom? Because why not? Then he can just dispose of it discreetly.

I think any potential partner, whether casual or not, would be more invested in the fact that he may need to have her full cooperation for the edging to succed. It may be okay for him to have sex with her after having edged himself for days. But, should they start seeing each other on a regular basis, will he suddenly pull out because he's too close to coming ... and then what is she supposed to do? Sure, he can finish her off in other ways, but what if she LIKES the feeling of him coming inside her, what if it's important to the way she comes, too?

Instead, she'll need to follow his apparent POA requirement, wondering each time whether he'll be coming, or whether it was just another race up the cliffside before slamming on the brakes. I think THAT's the question WOOD should be asking.


I'm trying to get my head around the fact that you lost TWO DOGS in this theft, but the loss of a few dirty sex toys put you over the edge. You have a lot more work to do...


@18 meh. that perv was diddling himself and emailing Dan at the same time. he's more turned on by the idea of blowing a gigantic load on some chick than actually meeting a human in a Starbucks.


The theft of the dogs and sex toys makes me wonder if the thief was someone that THEFT knows, and they took things not just to sell, but things that they knew were of personal value to THEFT. If so, that would be an extra layer of violation and betrayal, since that would mean it was done out of malice or revenge.


tim browne @19 - that seems a little unnecessarily judgmental. It sounds like THEFT discovered the theft of the sex toys several days after the fact. He/she may have had time to grieve and start healing from the loss of pets, then discovered an additional injury that put them back over the edge. Just because a straw broke the camel's back doesn't mean that that straw was more important than the 500lb anvil that the camel was already carrying.


Isn't it awfully nice to have a penis?
Isn't it frightfully good to have a dong?
It's swell to have a stiffy,
It's divine to own a dick.
From the tiniest little tadger
To the world's biggest prick!
So three cheers for your willy or John Thomas.
Hooray for your one-eyed trousers snake.
Your piece of pork, your wife's best friend,
Your Percy or your cock.
You can wrap it up in ribbons,
You can slip it in your sock.
But don't take it out in public,
Or they will stick you in the dock
...And you won't


23 your little schlong i mean song is so sadly out of date:


@23 Slovenly: Thank you for the multiple reminders of why I'm so grateful NOT to have a penis, and have no need for one.


Uhm, I don’t want to want to sound alarmist, but I’m going to sound the alarm: though nothing will probably happen to the woman who was robbed, I nevertheless believe she could be in real danger.

They stole her sex toys and her pets: it almost makes me wonder if that was a principle motive and “everything of value” was an added bonus, along with the thrill.


The letter writer has already had to experience so much trauma. I hope she stays safe and think she should move ASAP and sleep somewhere else in the meantime.


@27 pythag3: Yes. That was, for me, a concern in THEFT's letter, too. I hope THEFT is safe from any further harm or trauma. The LW has been through enough already.


I'm with @27 pythag3, and also agreeing that it could be someone the victim knows. The burgler made a decision to steal sex toys. It's horrible to have to say this, but I wouldn't spend any more nights there.

@19 tim browne: Hopefully you're now getting some perspective on how ill-informed your comment was.


@28- There’s definitely such a thing as more than desired/expected for some of us. You don’t want to feel like you’re drowning. But “complaining” about it would be rude-it’s not like he’s purposefully controlling the volume.


M?? Harriet - I totally agree with the first two sentences.

As for the rest, I'll remind you that neither you nor LW are gay. In my experience, very few gays assign any moral superiourity to versatility, or at least we didn't in my prime. The idea is a sort of cousin to the now-waning viewpoint that bisexuals are "more highly evolved". Now there was something gay that I think best counts as an attempt at a correction of a perceived over-valuation of tops. Thank Brian Kinney and his ilk.

You appear to be calling LW, if not actually superiour to his partners, at least more valuable, and there may be something to that with regard to anal. Here I'm a little constrained by my policy of not divulging certain personal specifics, but I acknowledge that my specialty tends/tended to value receivers higher than performers. I'm not sure how much that throws me into opposition to general gay lines of thought. I'll say, though, that there are subtleties missed by non-gays.

Now, one might expect that, in general, non-gay men would have a natural proficiency gap in either the performing or the receiving role in MM when measured against gays of approximately equal sexual experience. They would, of course, have a greater advantage in proficiency at performing or receiving MF or FM. One would generally consult a specialist over a dabbler, other considerations being equal. But what strikes me as interesting in this regard from my own experience is that the difference between non-gay and gay performers was greater than it was between receivers. I'm not sure whether or not that was to be expected.


Harriet @14: Or get a strategically placed mirror and enjoy the looks on their faces while you are fucking them. :)

Tim @19: What Jina said. Did you miss that THEFT is a victim of child sexual abuse? And so the theft of such intimate items triggered memories of the abuse in a way that the theft of the dogs didn't, which is why THEFT wrote to a sex advice columnist instead of a community support police officer? You have a lot more work to do on your empathy, dude.

Beedeetee @31: Except that WOOD -is- purposefully controlling the volume. And as I said when this was first run, another effect of edging may be that he comes very quickly with a partner, which she (we'll assume from the "Tinder" hint that the date is a she, though this is not specified) is unlikely to appreciate. I would recommend not involving the woman in this kink at all, either by telling her about it pre-shag, or actually engaging in it pre-shag. Hasn't WOOD seen There's Something About Mary?


I can’t remember if I’ve ever posted here but I’m a regular reader and this guy with the ability to flood Noah’s ark with his cum may be the most self-involved jerk who’s ever managed to be taken seriously by Dan. Methinks Dan has been played by a 300 pound man child in his mother’s basement.


@32. venn. You needn't worry--I'm as much in the dark about your specialty as ever.

To me, a 'queer' man who 'usually tops with men' is gay, mutatis mutandis. There's a generational difference between him and a self-identifying gay guy twenty years before; but I'm not sure there's any ontological difference. I know you think something different.

I'm exclusively homoromantic; this is why I'd consider myself gay. Issues of gender normativity and identification would have priority for me over sexual identity. If you see me as a trans woman, I'm a queer straight; if I'm somewhere within my birth gender, I'm queer, with some bisexual behaviors and affects. I know very little about straight dating culture ('casual', 'going steady', marriage) and lots more about gay male life.

@33. Bi. Of course! Historically the sex I've had historically has been a lot more unconsidered than that.


THEFT ~ I'm guessing/hoping you saw a therapist/counselor after the rape/molestation...time to check back in with them.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't a majority of women report pain during their first intercourse? That would seem to indicate there is some amount of pain that will subside with practice. It also sounds like TIGHTHOLE wants to enjoy bottoming. Maybe the key would be trying on back-to-back days? Graduated toy use?


@vennominon: I think I just fell in love with you.


I don't understand the venom directed toward @tim browne. I guess it's kind of "not cool" to put it in writing (though THEFT shouldn't have reached out to Dan Savage, of all people, if she didn't want anonymous readers to comment on her situation), but having a stronger reaction to the loss of sex toys than to the kidnapping of living creatures (who are far superior to our own species), does indicate that THEFT has some work to do. She seems to have internalized the message from her abuser -- that her worth lies solely in her snatch and the things that go into it. While Dan (of course) thinks that her boyfriend should buy her some dildos, I think it would be better for him to help her pick out a rescue dog from a shelter when the time is right.


A rescue dog doesn't begin to deal with the real pain of having your dogs stolen -the knowledge that they are scared and missing you. And that's the GOOD outcome. the bad one is that they were stolen to be used in dog fighting.

God, I haven't had a dog for five years, and I'm sitting here bawling just thinking about it.



It's possible it's just not for you, but if you want to ensure that there's not something interfering, I'd consider/investigate whether you have an allergy to any lubes or condom materials. I didn't realize that was the problem for me for a while because I don't generally use lube to masturbate so I hadn't experienced that painful burning sensation at other times so I could recognize it was the lube. It made a huge difference.


Hunter @28: Has any woman ever complained about not enough cum? We really don't care that much.

Sporty @37: You do know that vaginas and anuses are physically different, right?

Yeah @39: The venom is directed at Tim's complete lack of sympathy. If he'd said, "Your reaction to the theft of the sex toys shows you're still being triggered by that old trauma [which LW said herself], perhaps you should get some more therapy," no one would be telling him off. In other words, compare Tim's comment to Donny's @36. I think it's absolutely appropriate to call out people who display such dismissive attitudes toward victims of abuse.


Can we all agree to never, ever again refer to ejaculate as a "load"? It's honestly the grossest and least sexy way to refer to it that I can think of.


I just love the phrasing of "dickful thinking", which clearly and succinctly sums up what makes so many men (myself included) sometimes make really stupid decisions about sex?


@42 what? since when?


Chaos @43: Oh, there are so many terms for sexual things that put me right off the idea of sex. As far as terms for ejaculation are concerned, I despise "nut" even more than load.

Thexalon @44: It is a great phrase. And you don't need an actual dick to engage in dickful thinking. :)


@44 Thexalon: "Dickful thinking" is indeed an apt phrase, isn't it? Author Stephen King, in his 2013 bestselling novel, Joyland, wittily describes the human male region below the belt-buckle as "a wahoo stampeder who just doesn't give a shit" (see page 128).
@45: Well, for starters they're two completely separate orifices on a woman's body with differing functions. I'm no gynecologist, and pretty sure (hoping!) you were just kidding to BiDanFan @42---but I sincerely hope you're not a practicing OB-GYN, Sporty. You must have been dozing off in med school.
@46 BiDanFan: Agreed and seconded with you and Thexalon @44. I, too, like the term, "dickful thinking".


Happy International Women's Day to any celebrants among the assembled company.


@47 well I always do it with the lights out, so how would I know there were more than 1? I just kinda stick it down there and gyrate, it seems to get the job done.


Thanks Mr Venn. See you have a new admirer.
Also. Who. Who. Who let the dogs out?


Sportlandia, it hurts like once. Then all systems go. Not comparable to training the arse hole to receive incoming.


@52: Thank you, vennominon, and bless you. I see you have a new fan in YeahDaddy @38.
@53: Your lights are out in more ways than one, Sporty. Are you dating blowup dolls by any chance?
@55 LavaGirl (re Sporty @53): Clearly Sporty is among cavemen still in the dark about women.


I’d say he hasn’t been with many virgins, Grizelda. Listening to old husbands tales.


THEFT; I Wasn’t referring to your dogs. Apologies.
I’m sorry to hear about the horrors you’ve been thru. Don’t stay there alone, and why would they take your dogs and sex toys. It does sound personal.
I weep for the number of women who are violated by men. Be they cis or trans. Why do some men behave like that? How are so many men being reared to be lower than animals?
Even animals seem to get consent first.


@58 LavaGirl: As a veteran and rape survivor I share your pain and amazement, and quite often wonder, myself. If men and boys faced equal risk of unwanted pregnancy from unprotected sex I don't believe we'd have 1 / 1,000,000,000th of the bullshit societal problems as we do.


No it’s not that Grizelda, though inequality has a lot to do it. Who carries the baby.
It’s culture. Tribes couldn’t have got away with this behaviour, because most of life was public. Incest and rape wouldn’t have been tolerated.
Men could have consciousness raising groups, because a lot of them are falling between the cracks, twisted and lost humans.


Fan @46; what can you do? To them
It’s a load, to us it’s washing sheets in the morning.


Clitful thinking is also euphonious.


Unhappy women eh Dadddy, and all that is needed is a caveman doing his caveman thing? Guys like you should be careful following this script, not good for old hearts.
Where men need to do better is by not raping and murdering women.


A perfect time Dadddy for you to have engaged in a real discussion about male violence. No. You had to take it all back to dicks and how it’s only thru dicks a woman finds whatever it is you think she finds. You really are a relic. Don’t leave though. It’s perfect fodder for my book. Fascinating seeing it all play out in real time.
Sportlandia, I like that and it’s true. Desire for me doesn’t come from my vagina, did it during my fertile days, I can’t remember.
Clitful is fucking accurate. All those nerve endings sparking off. The clitoris is not as big as what you guys got, it can sure dominate the scene when it feels neglected.


@60 LavaGirl: That was the point I was making---too many cultures are so enabling of gender inequality, rape, exploitation, and abuse of women and girls.
@63 Dadddy: In answer to your question: No, and I don't want it, either. Now I have a question for you: Rape much? What a pity.


Sporty and Dadddy would have been eviscerated by actual "cavemen". Those neanderthals didn't put up with trolls.


@64 LavaGirl & @67 fubar: Agreed and seconded.


@67 fubar: I can't imagine trolls being eaten as food---the taste would be terrible.


@70:.....said a typical misogynist troll, oinking it up. Be careful about pointing pig hooves, Dadddy, especially when you're called on your chauvinist bullshit and denial of your sexist and flagrantly abusive attitude towards women.
Is it suddenly getting a little uncomfortable in your playpen? Do you need a diaper change?


Joe is such a great cartoonist. over size load; and a wave.
Let’s face it Dadddy, you’d never pass for a caveman. They were fit and virile men.
So no, your scenario with some slobbering out of condition middle aged man playing at being a young stud is of no interest to me.
Like they say on fetlife, this is not a dating site.


Hope you are taking care of yourself, THIEF. Have you checked out women’s groups you could attend? Donny above has already suggested you return to/ go to therapy.
Violation like this, take time to repair from and having others to share feelings with is an important part of healing.


In all fairness to the Lucky @69 Award contest, I would like to bequeath this week's honors to @67 fubar, as griz posted twice (@68 & @69). Fubar, heartfelt congrats and savor the riches!! May abundant goodness shower your way!


It's the damnedest thing---Griz types better upon the consumption of red, red wiiiiiine (note the instance of fewer typos). Thus, I swear, I was meant to be a composer and a writer.


@55. Dadddy. If someone is topping a partner and they say 'it hurts', the top should stop. Simple as that. Any idea like 'vaginas' or 'assholes get looser with time' isn't immediately to the point.


And that solicitation of dating advice was all a con, wasn’t it Dadddy? You haven’t mentioned your special date again.
Who are you? Are you a Russian troll.
Your understanding of how to approach these threads would fit with you being someone clueless of western ways, as far as intelligent women are concerned.
Go do your sad not getting any trolling elsewhere. You seem to be a one trick pony.


LavaGirl @72: This individual is more than likely a refugee from Fetlife. On that site, like here, there are strong, no-bullshit women who would immediately shoot down (to paraphrase Griz) such a misogynist troll, and call him on his chauvinist bullshit and denial of his sexist and flagrantly abusive attitude towards women.

Bragging about and recommending rapey "caveman" sex to a woman who has written about her own rape experience in these columns is a perfect example of that behaviour. His posts here show him to be a clueless turd who is dangerously lacking empathy, and clearly knows too little about boundaries and consent. He would not be welcome in the scene where I live. The women would kick his sorry ass to the curb.

Griz @74: thanks for the lucky 69 bequest, which is accepted and appreciated. All the best to you too.


The post @79 appears to be addressed to LavaGirl, but that makes it even more incoherent than if it were intended for me. It doesn't address anything I actually wrote @78, or elsewhere in these pages, so I'm not sure.

The description of the comment @63 as a "vignette" made me laugh out loud. It actually reads like a 14-year old boy's porn fantasy, replete with balls slapping against her clit, no less.


Dadddy, funny boy. We talk about sex here all the time, in relation to the questions which come up.
Incels are male, pathetic ones like you who can’t get a real woman so they haunt threads trying to get someone, anyone, to play with you.
That’s what these threads are for, answering questions people put to Dan. Not for sad middle aged men like you to get their rocks off . Which is all you ever seem to be wanting. Look at me Look at me. I can talk dirty, hahaha. Whatever.


@78, fubar. not sure who you are referring to, re being raped. THIEF maybe?
I’ve never been raped and after reading stories here which are so sad and horrifying, I feel like I must be one of the only women who hasn’t been raped.


There’s one of the moderators on fetlife who is always so spot on. Fell in love with him. Pity he’s a gay man.


Dadddy, you write a scenario for All the unhappy women on this thread, it’s obvious you hate strong intelligent women because they just don’t bend to your will. Bitches. So deciding they must be unhappy is the problem here, being so one eyed, so to speak.
We’ve had other men jump on here and try it on, most of them don’t last long. Of course hunter keeps trying, he’s harmless now.


LavaGirl @82: Search this page for "rape" and you'll see the connection I'm making.


Oh good. The trolls are tag-teaming tonight. Someone wake me up when there's something worth reading.


@78 fubar: You are most certainly welcome and deserving of the coveted honors. Enjoy!
@82 LavaGirl: You are SO blessedly fortunate to not ever have experienced the trauma of rape, Lava. Those who find glory in forced, unwanted sex out of sheer aggression, violence, and hatred have obviously never been on the receiving end of such unspeakable cruelty and are predators. Rape is a criminal act of violence, abuse and hatred, and violators should be punished to the full extent of the law. Trumpty Dumpty / Dencey Pencey, Brett Kavanaugh, ad nauseum for Prison 2019.
@87 fubar: I know, right? Personally, I'm amazed Hunter and Dadddy aren't outside rolling in the mud.


Griz @88: Perhaps they are... Ewwww.


@89 fubar: LOL and a shared Ewwww.

Getting closer to the Hunsky.....tick....tick....tick.....


You take everything back to the cock Dadddy, and for a woman that is no longer the pull it was. Sure hetro women like cock, Dur, not at the expense of their intelligence. Just one ingredient for a woman to choose from to live a full life.
For gay women, it’s never an ingredient.
See there, that’s the Patriarchy. Thinking all you gotta do is sprout some sexy/ lame talk, and what? Weird. Hanging onto old forms strangles you.


Sure hetro and bi women ...


LavaGirl, not here to get into this week's brawl but, as you posted the last comment, please note THERE IS NO SUCH WORD AS "HETRO". Each time you use it, it's like fingernails against a chalkboard in my mind.

See for yourself. Type it into a search box and you'll be asked "Did you mean hetero?" "Hetero" will be in italics that I'm not permitted to reproduce here. Sigh.

If you don't want to type "heterosexual" when referring to straight people, then "het" is the shorter version that conforms to the efficient options of het/bi/gay.

Okay, back to slinging mud or whatever in caveworld.


Sorry for your finger nail on chalk board moment Helenka. I think this is the first time you’ve ever addressed me. You are right of course and thanks for the spelling lesson. It’s Hetero not Hetro.


I’m pretty sure many Australians pronounce it hetrosexual. Lazy fuckers that we are, if we can lose a letter along the way, we’ll take it.


Canadians pronounce it hetrosexual too, but we're pedantic when it comes to Australians.


Well, LavaGirl, if that's the worst thing you've ever done in your life ... then you're laughing. As am I.

Though I believe Auntie Grizelda will be sad that we didn't attain the exalted HUNSKY this week.


@97 Helenka (also a Canuck): What?!? Says who? I'm willing to set up another Hunsky Award (@96 fubar, where are you? Want a Double Whammy?).


.....and the lucky Hunsky Award winner IS..................


Griz @98: Accepted!


@100 fubar: YAAAAAY!!! Congrats on scoring the Hunsky! I was hoping it would be you!