Savage Love Jul 3, 2019 at 4:00 am

Prejudicial Statements

Joe Newton



Sophia Loren, Gina Lollobrigida, Dominique Sanda, Bibi Andersson, Liv Ullmann, Laurie Anderson
EL- scrutinizing male ballet dancers’ thighs is a much better use of your time than attempting to convince sporty he’s not the most miserable, misunderstood person on the planet.
Golda Meir, Margaret Thatcher


CMD @205-207 I'd give Thatcher and Theresa May a pass. Alain Delon was hot in his talented Mr Ripley days, when he was all lanky and interesting, and may or may not have taken part in bisexual orgies with Georges Pompidou and French mafia overlords. Shame he's become such a gross homophobe now. He hasn't aged well physically, but for me it's definitely more a case of his personality being a total turn-off.

Your list also made me wonder whether androgynous beauty in general is something we strongly associate with youth? I can't think of many older celebrities who may still be considered beautifully androgynous. Tilda Swinton, perhaps? Maybe I'm not thinking hard enough.


Annie Lennox? She's still gorgeous, though she is more feminine than androgynous in her older age. Come to think of it, I think that happened with Bowie too- he became more masculine in his older years. Yes I'm having trouble thinking of a sexy androgynous older person.


I’m with you Fan and Sangu, I love Adam Driver.
We white people are not allowed to call black people, negroes, Sportlandia. Like we aren’t allowed to use the N word.


Is Mick Jagger sexy, he’s an older androgynous person. Still jumping around the stage like he’s twenty.
Tilda Swinton is an amazing woman, Margarita.


Congrats on scoring @200,a double Hunsky for you, Sportlandia.
I don’t live in the US, so I can’t make a comment about the usage of the word negro, by the great unwashed. It’s not a term used here, to describe black people.
Nothing wrong with being educated, luckily some still seek it. Don’t have to have money either.
Yes, EL, Brando as a young man was breath taking. Stella! Stella!


@204 huh? I pondered if it was time to bring it "back", not that it wasn't offensive. Words transition to and fro all the time. W/r/t Negro - have you been to like, an airport? Without headphones on? I never implied it was a normal word said without offense, just that it's something one hears commonly. LIKE YOU FUCKING DO IN YOUR OWN FUCKING FAMILY. Jesus Christ, this whole "deny things that I experience actually exist" routine is twice as old because you're basically lying intentionally. At least I have a fucking perspective that isn't carbon copy of 30 other people here. Like, at least be honest - there are no points to score here, you don't gain anything by filtering yourself.


Why would she lie Sportlandia? Racists exist in every socio group, rich and poor. If some out there are still using those words, they are racist. So what is your point.


Sporty, in the original post, I said that both are words that people use as slurs or to be edgy. They are not used any more in any respectful way even though they used to be. So if you are just now agreeing with me, then good. It's not my fault if you can't read carefully or express yourself clearly. It is my fault for continuing to respond to you, especially since you never say anything interesting. There is nothing unique about your posts nor your perspective- high school classrooms and reddit posts are full of them. But more importantly, I don't know what's so great about having some super duper special I'm-so-misunderstood contrarian stance in the first place. People ignored your question about the confusion around which words to use to differentiate between Asians because they probably knew conversation with you would be futile. I did the same, but when you asked twice, I answered- even though I fucking knew better- because as someone who is a part of the larger "Asian" community, I actually slightly momentarily gave a fuck.


And why are you here, Sportlandia? Do you ever ask yourself that. If this group of mainly educated mainly one assumes white people, if we offend you by existing, why bother joining in. What are you seeking being involved here.
If I didn’t sense a group of like minded people were in on SL, ones who could educate me about life at various ages, people with attitudes based on compassion and empathy, I’d not bother.


Sorry EL, you have said before you are Asian. One can’t assume anything about race.
I was in Brisbane yesterday, not a big city by world standards, big enough for me. The multitude of races was a beauty to behold.
It was in my life time, that we had a white Australia policy. Only white people allowed to migrate here.


I don’t get as effected by your argumentative style, Sportlandia, as others get, as I mentioned elsewhere, you remind me of one of my sons. He argues over every idea I posit, boring boy to converse with. He’s late twenties though, sure as hell hope he’s got more style together by his late thirties.


I mean one can’t assume about race re SL people.
It’s a difficult topic race, because culture is involved. We are reared into a way of being, deep seated attitudes and behaviours. Religion plays a big part.
Right now in our stupid country, they voted back in the most pathetic mob of dunces, we are having a religious discussion. Our own backlash to same sex marriage becoming Law.


@217- I don't have any problem with people saying I'm Asian nor Indian nor S Asian nor American nor Texan nor white- all of those words are accurate descriptions and I don't have a hangup about them one way or another. That was not the context for the conversation. In Sporty's "aw shucks, I'm just askin'" way, he wondered what words are currently used to distinguish between East Asians (say, the Chinese) and South Asians (say, Indians) etc. It's a good question and one that deserves and genuine answer (which I eventually tried to give him). He had to ask twice because at first, everyone ignored him since he also asked if we could just bring back "Oriental" which makes it seem like he wants to say something controversial without coming out and being controversial which is, in fact, his MO. But upon his second request for what words to distinguish various Asian ethnicities/cultures, I did in fact answer in earnest and addressed all his points- reason being, it's a topic close to home that interests me as I'm a part of that larger community. But of course, I was just taking the bait- he didn't care about the topic at all, but just wanted attention, which you can see because his one line response was not about the heretofore urgent question (which he asked twice) but rather about a few words of mine taken out of context which he then expanded into a rant about his uniquely special view of the world, being among the unwashed unlikes we elites you see. It's my own fault for getting sucked in, but dont misunderstand that I'm somehow offended by someone assuming anyhting about my race. Part of being bicultural is that you pass for a few things, fit a few places, and not really anywhere all at the same time.

Which btw if we can play part Sherlock and part Freud, my guess Sporty is that you are yourself biracial and a child of divorce- my guess is that you were raised in a community in which you didn't quite fit and your concepts of class and gender resentments are all mixed up in it. I notice the signs because I've been through them myself in some ways. However, I could likely be projecting but it's something I've wondered about you for some time.


Yes I see, EL, thanks.
From what I remember Sportlandia telling us, he’s the child of a single mother. Maybe I got that wrong.


Yes I get Sportlandia is a trouble maker, why is what interests me. what’s the pay off for him. He’d get attention if he joined the discussion, not stand outside it. It’s not like these threads are echo chambers, we have lots of heated discussions over different points of view.


Hunter you’re the prototype for trouble maker round here, at least there’s hope for Sportlandia, he’s still young enough to change.


Even my grandpa, who is 101 years old (!), worked as an electrician for the MTA for decades and decades, and was corrupted by conservative talk radio in the '80's from his originally union-man liberal politics -- even he doesn't use the word "negro." He says "black."


Doesn't get more working-class or older-generation than him.


@214 I'm here for the sale reason you are: because I have opinions and like to share them, and I find I typically have different opinions that most folks.

There was once a time many many years ago - back when Savage Love was an exploration of heretofore unknown sexualities, that this was welcome. For the part decade or so it's been a kvetch cabal with a given orthodoxy enforced by regulars and my voice went from "thinking different" to "too aggressive" or whatever.

Why are your here? Just to nod along and say amen with the other parishioners?


@200 Sportlandia: Congrats on hitting the Double Hunsky! Savor your coveted riches.:)
@202 sanguisuga: So close! Maybe if we get to @269 you can score the Double Whammy Extra Hunsky.
@227 : "I'm here for the sale reason you are"? "Why are your here"? You might want to use Spell Check, Sporty, before posting. Red wine, however, works quite well for me. :)


Yeah right Sportlandia. I don’t nod along if you noticed. What bull you speak.. your trip is a constant demeaning and put downs of women. You hardly make an intelligent comment, because most are riddled with rage against women. Why?
Not interested in being defined by the likes of you or hunter. Sexist men are not welcome here, That’s why you cop it.


Why am I here... to learn to appreciate men again. To read comments from men who are very different to the difficult one I married. To reset my prejudices, and loosen up my view.
To have contact with other feminist women, and understand different points of view from those women.
To understand about sexual orientations and gender identity, trans issues, kinks and fetishes and therefore become more tolerant of difference.
I’m old Sportlandia, done my dash with life partner/ kids, the whole catastrophe. As Zorba described it.
You are young, and all this prejudice is blinding you to how quickly that clock is ticking.
tick tock don’t waste a frock, as they say..
well no, I just said it.


Re Asian identifiers. I recognise Indonesians, one not on your list EL, and Indians, Tibetans, because I’ve had close connections to them. With some of the other Asian countries, I find it hard to identify their country of origin.
Same though, identifying where white English speaking / European people come from, until they open their mouths.


Lava - I'm 38. 28 was a blink ago, which means that 50 is just another blink away as well. I have very few illusions about my 'youth'. I happened to witness a car accident where one of the cars spun out and his a pedestrian not too far from me. I read in the paper that he had both legs amputated. That's when I realized what adults meant when they said kids think they're "invincible" - it's that they think they have some control over their life, but it's an illusion, bad things happen to fine people all the time, and good things typically happen to bad people, since they're not afraid to lie, cheat, or steal for it, while dopes like me are worried about being ethically fair. I'm that dude who, when I found out a professor had given me a rubber stamp grade instead of actually reading my work, burned my degree. I had been proud of it - the first on my dad's side of the family (both sides if you exclude aunts/uncles/cousins/etc) - but I hope he lives forever with a guilt he'll never be able to atone for.

Here's a friendly tip: You don't want to me say mean things to you? Then don't talk shit. It's as easy as pie (although plainly very hard for many). It took me many years to actually learn what standing up for myself meant (see below), but wherever I am is a you-do-not-talk-shit-to-or-about-me zone, no exceptions. I have a grand time disagreeing with people, if you want to make it personal, I can't stop you, but I'm definitely not going to sit here and be like "well I'm sorry you feel that way" or whatever bullshit backpedal you're used to. I have my opinion and that's that. All you have to do is agree or disagree with my ideas and you can have a great time arguing it out. If you want to make it personal, well, that's on you. Literally leaving and going somewhere where everyone agrees with you like you want and frames debates in the way that makes your comfortable IS an option, and requires almost zero effort on your part. Or you can talk about my ideas and we can have a happy back and forth, as I even do with the otherwise-despised BDF.

Ultimately, however, it seems obvious you enjoy all this - actions speak louder than words.

@222 please learn how to read.

@225 around you, perhaps. But like I said - spend some time in public, take off your headphones. You'll learn quite a lot.

@228 Only a idiot thinks typos mean anything

@EmmaLiz I don't know where you get this "asked twice" thing. I asked once @90 (and in an open-ended and non-prescriptive way, I'm not in the habit of describing people as 'oriental' and the question itself speaks to the issue that the language we're given is not as sufficient as it was 20/30 years ago) and multiple people responded and I... didn't ask again? Reading the same comment over and over is not the same as me repeating myself. I did respond to @178's not especially correct explanation for the origin of the word with some etymology, but that's clearly different from re-asking the question. That you would then say "It's not my fault you can't express yourself clearly" is some grade-A gaslighting, since the meaning is right there for anyone who has the literacy level of a 10 year old. If you misunderstood it, you should think about why, since everything you needed to know about my position was right there.

@220 The joke is on you - my parents were never together
But if you want to know the answer to "why am I the way I am", here you go: I went to a hippy-dippy public elementary school that no longer exists. I was a 'gifted' child so I started kindergarten at age 4 (and didn't turn 17 until about a month before my HS graduation). Being the hippy-dippy school that it was, and being during the Reagan years, I came to be familiar with the liberal tendency to pat each other on the back for doing absolutely nothing beyond believing their own myth-making. You know, "this school is so modern-thinking and accepting of ALL races, isn't that great!?", meanwhile I was one of 2 or 3 not-white kids in the class, significantly smaller and younger than my classmates and getting beat up regularly, easily 100s of the times over my 6 years there. I was a quiet kid who didn't bother anyone and spent most of my free time reading. The teachers advice? "Learn to stand up for yourself". That started at age 5, and is about when I realized that authority was bullshit and entirely imaginary and the people in those positions weren't anything other than average at best. That same teacher used to give me detention for doing my schoolwork "too fast" - gee, I wonder why (in those days, I was a straight-A student who got 99-99-99 on my CATs, for those who remember taking that; neither did I never acted out, spoke out, or broke any rules) The education itself was quite good - there are things we discussed in depth at that school that many adults today still don't know about. I still think fondly of my 2nd, 3rd and 5th grade teachers. So yes, I have a lot of anger that my despite lapping my older peers in school I was punished for it, as I saw myself routinely punished for very normal things while those who acted out got rewarded for being decent once in a blue moon. That hasn't changed, 30+ years later.

The other leg is, I grew up in, you know, a poor family. Just my mom, who was 21 when I was born, and myself, and we moved around a ton like you might imagine. Then again, I -was- a gifted-track kid and always knew I'd be successful. It took a little longer than I hoped, but here I am. Went through grad school, have a job with a salary, everything. It was rough on me emotionally when my first internship paid more than my mom had made at any point in her career, because of all the things my mom wasn't or was, she was a hard worker who had no problem putting in 16 hour days and waking up again at 4am to start back up. My 20-hour a week job where they expected vaguely above high school level performance from a 29 year old getting 4.0s in a masters program felt offensive on more than a few levels. Anywho, I see now that the "national conversation" (evinced in a microcosm here) is not dominated by the smartest as I had grown up to believe, but by exceedingly average people with the largest egos. And it's no different here. The self-appointed rule setters think I'm wrong and I say think wrong and I'm too aggressive blah-blah-blah: All of you can shut the fuck up. This isn't your spot to make the rules. If you want to say it is, go fuck yourself and die and I will absolutely go out of my way to hurt your feelings until you internalize that you are powerless here. Just spit your perspective out and zip it with whatever your idiotic notion of rules are. Go @ dan savage on twitter if that's not welcoming enough for you because there's a 0% chance I'll be accommodating you. At best this is a Greyhound bus station, not a kumbyyah circle.


That was stupid. Burning your degree. I was fucking one of my lecturers, of course he passed my work. The rest of the time I got educated and often worked really hard. And that man’s course put me onto a life time of reading about the mind which lead me eventually to Buddhism, which saved my life. I’ve long earned that pass.


That is the problem and it’s the one I’ve been pointing out to you. Being an opposing force, some of the time, if you have a very different point of view; Yes. That happens here. You however, make a Sport out of it, as your name suggests. And not over glaring issues, over ones you have a prejudice about.. mainly women. Of which I am one, and it is boring. It’s not subtle, or catches the shades of how we as humans operate.
No. CrashBang, the girl did it.
Be a vulnerable man on these threads, one who has worked thru his own sexist views of the world, rather than working them out here.
I like you Sportlandia, despite your knee jerk stupidly. Your defence against pain.
Up to you if you can trust this mob here will look after you.


"I have a thing for tall guys."

You obviously are dehumanizing tall men. Fucking heightist.

Give me a break. She simply said she thought black men are hot. She didn't even say why. She may like men who are tall, dark and handsome (imagine that). Meanwhile, he claims that "The position that I've always held is that we're attracted to individuals, not types". Oh really? So you are telling me that a woman who is 200 pounds overweight is just as attractive to you as one who is physically fit? Give me a fucking break. We all have preferences. Some are broader than others. Most prefer one sex over the other. Some men like redheads, or those with blue eyes or small boobs (or big ones) -- but the vast majority of those people don't make an assumption about the person who inhabits that body. The letter writer just attached his own reasoning for his girlfriend's preference. He just assumed it was cultural, not physical. There it is, right in the letter:

"it's wrong to have expectations of people based on race"

Yeah, no fucking shit! I am willing to bet good money that your girlfriend feels exactly the same way. Nothing she said suggested otherwise. No wonder she was pissed.


Sangui @199: I think you are far from alone on Rupert Graves.

Margarita @208/Emma @209: Ageing is indeed the enemy of androgyny, as hormones, particularly testosterone, have cumulative effects, and age-related weight gain does tend to follow gendered distributions. See the gorgeous Carrie-Anne Moss, sexily androgynous in The Matrix, and what might be called "a handsome woman" in Jessica Jones. Once one is in one's 90s or so it becomes more difficult once again to determine gender! ;) How about Billy Porter as an androgynous person who is pushing 50? And Tilda Swinton, yes, definitely yes. The late Quentin Crisp pulled it off his whole life, too, as did Prince.

Even Hunter @222 is not impressed with Sporty, who seems to have been 38 years old for several years now. Hmm. And I'm sorry but any of the back-and-forth you once cherished with me is gone, I give up on your lost cause misogynist ass. You don't deserve my civil discourse attempts, I have better things to do and better commenters to engage with. You're on your own.


Not particularly interested in this episode of "SL Spat of the Week", so will just comment on this:

"I did respond to @178's not especially correct explanation for the origin of the word with some etymology"

Except I wasn't talking about the origin of the word. I said "the whole concept of "The Orient" was a white Victorian invention", which it was. Meaning the concept behind modern usage, the concept you evoked when you suggested bringing back "Oriental" to refer to people of East Asian origin. The aforementioned Edward Said explains this in quite some detail in his book Orientalism.

Perhaps I should have said "the whole ~modern~ concept" instead? Sure, we can all use more clarity when expressing ourselves online. But tbh I think you knew what I meant. "Orient is an ancient word meaning East" is about as disingenuous an argument as "Negro just means black in Spanish".


BDF @236 - Perhaps in your neck of the woods, but folx here in the US seem mostly unaware of RG's dishiness. And it's entirely possible that you could run into him on the street! You are in London, right?


EmmaLiz @187

"As I said, this is imperfect for a number of reasons, including questions like where do you put Central Asian states like Uzbekistan or Mongolia etc?"

I don't know if this would make sense to an average American, but most people I know from these countries refer to themselves as "Central Asian" if they want to delineate the entire geographical region. I've also heard "Turkic", but in my experience this is less common.

In Russia, Central Asian countries are sometimes included in the broader category of "Near East", but this is both vague and conceptually problematic, for obvious reasons. Most Russians would probably consider it a neutral term (and it's certainly not the most racist by any means), but I've never heard anyone say that their own country of origin was "in the Near East". Much like "Oriental", it's almost always a term used to describe people ~outside~ of one's ethnic group.


Sporty, everyone has similar stories. Well not everyone but most of us. While it's all perfectly valid baggage, it's that you seem to think you've had some uniquely special experience or hardship, that you were particularly done wrong in a way that has damaged you for life or whatever. Actually I'm not going to try to engage. Yes I knew your father was not around- sorry I said "divorced", I just meant that you'd previously stated you were raised by a single mom. But my question is if you are biracial. Of course it's none of my business and you don't have to tell me, but I do get that feeling about you (being bicultural myself) though your experience of growing up as one of the few not white kids in a mostly white area accounts for that just as well. Thanks for sharing. In my own case, the culture around me (at school, in the city) was extremely diverse since I grew up in Houston so I never had that experience, but I had a similar between worlds thing with my parents being from such very different kinds of family- not really fitting in either. The trippy thing is that you then mix up your sense of what class is or what gender is or how relationships are formed or what registers to use, etc, with the particulars in which you experience them and then it takes a while to sort it out as you get older. I mean, this likewise happens to everyone (is this what it means to be a man? Or is this what it means to be the sort of man my father was, etc) but it's slightly more complicated when also what you experience doesn't fit with the larger society and even when there are incongruities even within your own personal bubble as you say. In any case, these run of the mill formative years experiences and early damage are things we all have- and some of what you mentioned above is just totally normal angst. These are insights that every adult has- yes the world is deeply unfair, yes meritocracy is a myth, etc etc.


Lost Margarita,

Yes if we were to attempt to be precise, it's never ending. Why is Iran considered Middle East and not Central Asian for example? What about Afghanistan? I'm not sure how most Americans would refer to it, but my guess is "Middle Eastern".

Your point about how people refer to themselves is interesting. I have not thought to pay too much attention to it in that way, but subcontinental immigrants of course don't tend to call themselves South Asians. They will usually say either Indian or Pakistani (or whatever country) and also refer to the "subcontinent". I bet this is common, right? If you were an immigrant from Thailand or China, do you refer to yourself as Eastern? For the point you made- that it is an orientation from the POV of Europeans. Although Americans do refer to themselves as "Western" and all about Western values, Western civ, especially more recently. I wonder if this is basically just playing the same role that "Oriental" used to play but only now referring to the self rather than the other to make the same division. The use of "Western civilization" in this way is a surprisingly modern invention.

I've known a few Kazakhs and even spent some time there- this is probably more common in the Houston area because of the oil industry than it is in other parts of the country. My experience has been that Americans tend to classify them (when they meet them in the US) as either "Russian" (if they are white) or "Asian" (if they have eye shapes similar to what Americans would associate with the far east) or "Middle Eastern" (if they are darker skin without that eye shape). This is why I think what Americans really want is just words to describe physical features. And right now (at least in Texas) there seem to be only three categories in most Americans' minds: "Eastern" for anyone with eyes with the epicanthic fold, "Middle Eastern / Arab" for any Muslim, and "South Asian / Indian / Pakistani" for anyone from the subcontinent. I've never heard an American say "Turkic" and I can't remember if I've heard anyone describe themselves that way- I havent' noticed either way. I don't think I've ever heard "Near East" though that would make more sense to people in Europe or Russia.

My guess is that as immigrant communities grow and as the world gets smaller and Americans have more interaction with people from other parts of the world, the commonly used terms will become more and more precise. You see this already happening in big diverse areas.


EL @ 240
Any recommended ballet dancers pics or videos? Thighs and butts are highly encouraged.

Lost @ 208- re andro celebrities, I have already cited Laure Anderson. I think she is aging well in terms of not hiding it while maintaining her creative, lively self.
Another one I should have acknowledged is early 1970’s Peter Gabriel, the skinny long haired energetic dude with a flower hanging on his neck as he sings, “A flower?” in Supper’s Ready” live videos. Jumping around in “Musical Box”- "Why don't you touch me? Now! Now! Now! Now!..." should also get an honorable mentioning. He puffed up a bit by now, yet still passable in the mid 1990's.

Both David Bowie and Riuchi Sakamoto are hot in “Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence.”
Bowie intentionally doesn’t age well in “The Hunger,” yet I have fond memories of the age-different lesbian scene featuring Susan Sarandon and Catherine Deneuve(!) It’s been awhile since I’ve seen it so can’t tell if my early age enthusiasm will be diminished by realizing it’s yet another fake lesbianism catering for a het male fantasy.

Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, current Man U manager, was fairly- may I say “cute?”- while a player in that same club some 25 years ago and seems to be aging nicely. I’m still a Spurs fan regardless.


Why yes CMD. In fact I do.

Here's a video:
But you really do have to visit this dude's entire page. He's got very good thighs, and he knows it, and he likes to show them off.

Some more legs for you here:
He has a lot of pics. His athleticism is as impressive as his butt.

Beautiful body and very talented here, also has amazing cheek bones if you are interested in the other kind of cheeks as well!

I could share more, if this becomes the objectify-the-hot-dancer thread.


Sporty - I know this convo has gone on a long time, so I don't know if you'll even read this, but I'd second the recommendation to think about the fact that everyone has baggage and we are all a lot more similar than you might think. I'm not saying you shouldn't disagree or stand up for yourself, but rather try to think about how resentful you feel towards people who don't necessarily warrant it and about how confrontational your disagreements are.

You don't know where other people are coming from and I think people often have a lot more in common than they realize. Like you I was one of the only non-white kids in a "gifted" program in a liberal area. I mostly pass as white (being biracial), but when people found out/find out I wasn't completely white they often thought/think just bc they know me they have carte blanche to use racial slurs as "jokes". Being a girl I wasn't bullied, but I developed in elementary school and got a lot of comments about my "exotic" looks and "curves" (aka boobs). I've been raped twice, not to mention sexually abused as a child, and pressured to the point I thought it easier/safer to give head I don't know how many times - though all that's probably more just a function of being female.

In my mind the things I've gone through (by no means limited to what I mentioned above) are reasons to identify and empathize with other people, not to alienate them or assume I've been through more. My experiences definitely color my responses, and I often speak up when I disagree rather than when I agree. I'm sure I can be more snappy than I intend, but my intention is to get an honest opinion across to people I think are worth conversing with. Shouting into the void is only going to make me angry. That's why I don't bother talking to people who I so fundamentally disagree with on values and world view that - at this point at least - I don't have the energy. I just recommend you think about what you're trying to do and how it makes you feel. Sometimes I think you have insightful comments, but other times you are disingenuous and/or combative. If this is honestly in some way useful to you, then no one can tell you to stop. I think it just confuses a lot of people when some of your comments aren't trying to make a point (at least not earnestly), aren't trying to convince anyone and just seem to reflect anger/frustration without an attempt at resolving it.

Sorry for the super long comment. I'm not trying to be annoying or jump in as some person you don't even know giving unwanted suggestions. I just thought I'd give my two cents to an ongoing "situation" for what it's worth.


Hugs to you Kitten Whiskers. So sorry you have been thru those experiences. You sound like a kind woman for all that, not bitter and closed.
Bravo to you, and it’s great you are here.


@232: And an even bigger dolt gloats about functional illiteracy, Sporty. Take off that silly MAGA cap before your head caves in.
@244 Kitten Whiskers: I second LavaGirl @245: Bravo, well said, and thank you.


Lava and Griz - thanks. I'm lucky enough to have a lot of amazing people in my life who make me feel safe, supported and loved. That always makes it a lot easier to live in the present.

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