Ok, that's it, I am in.

Long time reader, first time poster - Dan, you're a darling and you have saved this queer's life (sexual), but that's another question that really shouldn't have been answered by a male.

LW, don't, I repeat DON'T go for Plan B. Dan, FYI it's a HUGE hormonal shock for the female body. If she hasn't used it before, she might turn to be one of the minority where it can mean couple of years of fertility treatment afterwards. There is just no way of knowing, and in her situation it's not acceptable. Actually, it's much safer to go on the regular pill for a few months - I don't think they'll conjure enough money for a kid in several weeks, so she actually can use regular pill.

As for IUD, three of my female friends are raising "but I was on IUD" consequences. So... a small risk, but still a risk.

I don't think that inviting another fertile M when F is planning to get pregnant soon can be done in any safe way. If she doesn't have a particular third in mind, they probably should go looking for a male who had vasectomy. Or for a non-male-bodied person with a strap-on. They can invite a third M freely (with non-latex on, of course) when she's already pregnant - that's the only safe way here, actually. Since she says it would be soonish... chances are, that looking for a third and vetting him won't happen earlier, anyways.

L-dub is definitely exhibit B in favor of increased funding and support for comprehensive sex education. 40 years old and asking Dan about this? Smh...

Have your tubes tied.
Don't have kids.

VCF is a good second layer of protection.

https://www.verywellhealth.com/vcf-vaginal-contraceptive-film-906897

@3: No, they should have kids if they want to - provided they play out these lustful escapades out of their system and then get married.

@6 totaly agree that she should track her cycle. Everyone with a cycle should track their cycle. But don't say 2 day or x days after her period ends, because every ovary-haver is different. I have a clockwork precise bu short cycle, so i ovulate 2 days after my period ends. So people, track your cycle.

She says she's "in her forties" so at least 41, but probably older, and she's still waiting to have kids?

Um, it's already probably too late. Too late to have a healthy babby at least. If they don't mind raising a kid with birth defects there might be a tiny small chance though.

I myself am an IUD baby, but that was the bad-old-days. Now the failure rate is less than 1 in 100 users per year, better than any other form of birth control besides never touching a sperm. I agree that the morning after pill is not necessarily a pleasant (or inexpensive) experience for regular use though and was surprised Dan mentioned it except as a back-up. Use the non latex rubbers and if one busts, then the morning after becomes obvious.

If you are already in your 40s and can’t afford kids then do yourself a favor and don’t have them. Or adopt when your circumstances improve! Having kids is really expensive and at your age you really need to be saving for retirement, not paying for college in your 60s.

Having a kid in your 40s with no husband and no money is a shitty thing to do to the kid.
Don't.

IUD's are wonderful for people who want a long-term contraceptive, but while they can be removed, the absolutely don't just pop in and out with ease. Plus, the cost of insertion and removal is significant, and the risks and side effect (such as they are) are higher upon first insertion and in the removal process. The cramping and spotting type side effects in fact tend to be higher for the first 3-6 months. You can't count on the hormonal sorts as birth control for days to weeks. They are absolutely NOT, NOT NOT an option relevant to a single night / long weekend / week or two or five of threesome-ing.

And they're particularly irrelevant to this question.

It clearly is asking, "I'd like to be fertile with my husband, but not the third, AT THE VERY SAME TIME" So duh, the third gets blow jobs and frottage only, or spermicide inside his non-latex condom (there may be some leakage, but probably enough to not interfere with husband's load), or if husband's up for it, there's choo choo train option where the husband while husband does the wife. Or let the third know that you're open to impregnation, but will be presuming that the child is yours (a presumption allowed / enforced under law in some states, not others, so check your local laws, and decide if you're OK with raising a child that might not be genetically related to both of you).

Finally, remember that HIV and other viruses can pass lambskin condoms (and probably so too a trace of spermicide), so don't count on those for the same level of protection. If you want to use PrEP, while so far it seems safe in early pregnancy, there's not much data on its effect on likelihood of conception.

Are the odds of getting pregnant in an MMF threesome any higher then simply having sex twice?

Woe be the state of critical thinking education today. Something tells me this one skipped the SAT and only took the ACT

I'd say a doctor (maybe an OB/GYN or a fertility specialist) might be a better place to bring this question. As knowledgeable as Dan is, he's ultimately not a medical professional.

@13 My brother only took the ACT. He graduated summa cum laude from an excellent, rigorous engineering program and is currently working as a computer engineer for a top defense contractor while also in grad school. Your point?

These numbers are just averages but the likelihood of getting pregnant accidentally in your early 40s when you are using barrier methods is quite small.
https://www.kinderzeit.org/en/fertility-by-age/

TBH it could take you some time to get pregnant given your age (and I guess his too). So maybe start trying now, assume it will take a year, and use condoms with third parties.

If you want to go with the most reliable birth control method that also has the least interference with your fertility, go with the copper (completely non-hormonal) IUD, Paragard. You continue to have periods and hormonal fluctuations completely normally, but you have a less than 1% chance of getting pregnant. Plus, it's good for a cool decade if your plans to have kids change. Just be aware that it is excruciatingly painful to have it (or any IUD, I would imagine) inserted, especially if you've never given birth. (I have one and I spent about 6 hours writhing in pain after it was inserted, but not everyone's experience is so bad. I do not regret it for a second and didn't even at the time.) BUT if you combine it with condoms, your chances of getting pregnant (by someone who's baby you're not interested in raising) drop to about 0.15%. AND as soon as you are ready to get consensually knocked up, there's no waiting period for your hormones to go back to normal since they've never changed.

@8 The whole “have kids before you’re forty or your kids will all come out deformed!!!” is wrong. The chance of birth defects increases, but the chance is still so tiny that most women will be fine. Chill with that.

A lotta judgemental "don't have kids" dicks on here. Or maybe I'm too many beers in and reading it wrong.

Letter-writer, have kid(s) if you want. It's the best thing I've ever done. If you're on the fence, or waiting for the right time, then get off/stop waiting and just do it.

The third can cum in the bf. Problem solved.

A straight woman asking a gay man for tips on how to prevent conception...

Truly, we have come far from Dan Savage's first days on this paper.

@15 ACT is generally associated with liberal arts schools. Cool that your brother blows up poor people all over the globe though.

@20 Now THAT is an OG Dan response. Nicely done.

For non-latex condoms - which you want to use anyway for STI protection, no? - I'll throw in a plug for LifeStyles's polyisoprene SKYN line. They're more pliant and softer than other types of plastic condoms, and they're softer and smell/taste better than latex condoms. Easily the most comfortable condom I've ever used, and all I've used since I first tried them a few years back.

Also, learn how to use condoms correctly; this is a general note, because people insisting condoms have a high failure rate is bafflingly common, and they almost never fail if you 1) actually wear a 2) properly fitted and 3) lubricated condom every time a penis gets near a vagina (or anus). If your condoms frequently slip off, they're not sized properly. If they break any more than once every thousand uses, you're probably doing something wrong (most likely incorrect storage that damages the material due to heat - car glove boxes are a common culprit - or friction - DO NOT KEEP CONDOMS IN YOUR WALLET, use of an oil-based lubricant with latex, which can rapidly degrade the rubber, or insufficient lubrication - it's a good idea to use condom-compatible lube even with lubricated condoms).

I'd suggest a diaphragm or cervical cap as the second layer of protection after a non-latex condom.

@1: Unless you have a couple thousand female friends, or a few hundred who exclusively used IUDs for decades, the odds that two of them are lying about having had an IUD when they conceived are higher than the odds that you know three people for whom IUDs failed. Fewer than one of every thousand woman using an IUD for contraception becomes pregnant in any given year.

@6: It's a small window for pregnancy if you define 2/3rds of a typical woman's cycle as "small". The typical woman ovulates about 14 days before the onset of menstruation, and sprem can remain viable for days (generally as many as five days and up to seven or eight), so having sex in the three weeks leading up to menstruation will pose a pregnancy risk for most people. One IS significantly less likely to become pregnant from sex e.g. two days after menstruation ends, though early ovulation CAN happen, but is less likely if one has a regular, typical cycle.

@13: The odds, on average, will be lower than having sex twice with the same person at different times, due to fertility cycles. You're missing the implicit fact that LW is less concerned about getting pregnant sooner than planned than she is about getting knocked up by a rando instead of her boyfriend, the odds of which are infinitely higher with an MMF threesome than they are if she only has sex with her boyfriend.

@20 I was having a similar thought. If it’s a MMF and we know the one M is bi, who says other M wants PIV at all? Find a nice bottom who’s interested in playing w boobs and maybe eating some snatch. I have a gay friend who loves to eat pussy, to the point that he has lesbian MFF three somes

Add me to the list of people who got pregnant on an IUD. @ John Horstman: To what purpose would someone lie about that? The obstetrician I saw after I conceived on the IUD (not the same dr who inserted it) said he sees it rather frequently. I have to wonder if they will re-evaluate the failure rate. I'm not sure how long they wait before counting it as a success or a failure. Mine worked 1.333 years before failing, so if they only studied it for the first year??? Your suggestion of a diaphragm (WITH SPERMICIDE, so LW prob won't get preg from bf during that same 'sexpisode') is a fantastic option, imho, especially given this person's specific need.

@22 Actually, to my knowledge the ACT is seen as better for those whose strengths lie in science and technology rather than language. I'm getting a biology degree from a public liberal arts school that involves actual research as an undergraduate. I don't think liberal arts means what you think it means. Also, my brother happens to be working on rescue helicopters, since you're so concerned about the implications of his job.

Seconding (thirding) what everyone said above about no no no IUD for a one night thing and also plan B probably isn't right here.

Also why the fuck is this even a question? The obvious answer is that the third simply doesn't cum in her vagina. He still has two assholes potentially and two mouths for sure plus six hands to help and at least one pair of tits- unless this is the most unimaginative threesome in the world, it's pretty easy to solve this problem.

I can't believe not a single line was spared in the letter to mention concern over STIs, especially as they're considering bring a complete stranger into the bedroom. News flash LW: some STIs can leave you /infertile/.

https://www.cdc.gov/std/infertility/default.htm

I had my last child at forty seven, he’s now a healthy just on twenty two year old, so it is possible. It was not my first pregnancy, my one before was when I was forty. Not sure about fertility windows with a first pregnancy, although this LW may have been pregnant before. Don’t leave it too long LW.
@1: Laydar +1: and welcome.
@25: tim browne’s gay friend, who sounds very special, there’s an option.

probably not many men like tim’s friend around, a true unicorn.
What about the morning after pill, is that still an option. LW, for one fuck, I wouldn’t be doing anything to your fertility cycle if you are serious about trying to get pregnant. Condoms, he doesn’t come in you etc, wait till you are pregnant or advertise for a man who has had the snip as @1 suggested.

It does seem like having him not finish in her vagina is the easiest and most obvious answer. Fully agree with @28.

Having had a number of MMF threesomes, I can tell you that there are PLENTY of things you can do that don't involve the third coming inside you. Plenty! Have fun! :)

Laydar @1, thank you for the warning on Plan B. Many women do experience horrific side effects.

Raindrop @5, don't feed the troll (aka Commentor Commentatus's second alias in the past week). Having said that, though, why shouldn't these two, in theory, continue to have escapades once they are married and have kids? Wouldn't this attitude/approach lead to sex that was hot and exciting pre-marriage going boring afterwards, with the couple becoming yet another seven-year-itch statistic? Sure, they may not have time for threesomes when they have young kids, but that's for them to determine; they shouldn't just stop doing what they enjoy because that's not "appropriate" for married people.

Lib @6, yes, good call. Get an app and try to schedule the threesome on a non-fertile day.

Cosmic @10/You'll @11: She isn't; that's the whole point of this letter. I agree that unless her short term plan involves a terminally ill relative, she may need to accept that the breeding ship has sailed for her. At any rate it's a problem that just might solve itself...

Sporty @13, she says they are actively taking steps to prevent her getting pregnant right now. Whether he's using non-latex condoms or has had a vasectomy, I think we are safe to assume that they are on the case.

Kathryn @17, she's already in her forties, she doesn't need a birth control method that's good for 10 years. But thanks for your contribution.

John @24, great condom tips, and of course a cervical cap would be a great backup plan. Thanks!

Tim @25, if your friend loves to eat pussy I would de facto revoke his gay card, and unless he is a trans woman, he is not having "lesbian" threesomes because he is not a lesbian and if they're inviting a man to play, neither are they.

Calliope @27, you'll learn this quickly, but there is no point in engaging with Sportlandia. He's an asshole and it's just not possible to have a good faith discussion with him, since he hates all women, and that includes you.

Lava @30, this LW strongly implies that this would not be her first pregnancy either.

Lava @31, there are plenty of men like Tim's friend around, they're called bisexuals. :)

As a medical professional, working in sexual and reproductive health I can see that there are many, many incorrect beliefs about contraception, fertility and conception in this comment thread.

Not a very entertaining read tonight.

Sandwiches @34, so are you going to enlighten us?

I second that samewichesatbedtime. If there are incorrect comments, please correct them. Bit late for me to worry now, I’m sure other women would appreciate corrections.

Funny Fan @33. No, this man only likes eating pussy. One could have a three pm meet and it would be over in five. No heavy panting. Then the hetero guy comes over later.

Then again, how does he get off. tim browne often throws a curve ball.

@29: STI's don't cause infertility. Untreated STI's do.

LW should of course do regular STI testing, but shouldn't worry that an STI will make her infertile.

She SHOULD worry that an STI would cause pregnancy complications, which would be a strike against waiting until she's already pregnant for the extracurriculars.

"Unless you have a couple thousand female friends, or a few hundred who exclusively used IUDs for decades, the odds that two of them are lying about having had an IUD when they conceived are higher than the odds that you know three people for whom IUDs failed. Fewer than one of every thousand woman using an IUD for contraception becomes pregnant in any given year."

I know two women this happened to as well- reasonably sure neither was lying, since one was my mom, the other was my best friend, and both pregnancies ended in miscarriages. IUDs are generally very reliable, yes, but the consequences when they fail are particularly awful.

Good point biggie, @39. I wore an iud for a short time and had to have it taken out, I could feel it.
This letter has some hidden agenda, I think. No woman this age doesn’t know re contraception, sti’s, don’t get come near the vagina,etc., too tired to care if there is one.

Sorry to hear your mother and friend had to go thru that, rafibomb@ 40.

Let me clarify my earlier statement about my friend, Kevin, who likes to eat the pussy. He's done a number of FFM three ways where the two women were partnered lesbians, including one couple that he saw (maybe still sees) on a regular basis. There is no PIV, and he gets no oral. So call it what you want, he's mostly being used for his tongue.

Lava @41, very true. Perhaps the letter is a humblebrag.

Tim @43, I'll still call it bisexuality. Some bi men are givers. As are some straight men. I've known a few who only wanted to go down, and presumably take the memories back to the wank bank. If these "lesbian" couples wanted a man to join them, even if they ignored his dick, one or more of them was not a lesbian. Homoromantic perhaps, homoflexible at minimum. If Kevin likes to eat pussy, he is not gay. That's just as implausible as the "straight" men who like to suck men's dicks that we sometimes see around here, and conclude, correctly, that they are deluding themselves about being straight. Regardless, sure, if this couple wants to avoid her getting pregnant, they could look for a -bi- man like your friend. Perhaps they'll even find one who, like your friend, is for whatever reason passing himself off as gay.

@44
Careful. A lot of the SJWs will be on you because Kevin "identifies" as Gay... therefore he IS gay.
LOL. But your point is well taken.

In my low 40s, I decided to have a kid. And got pregnant in the first month. If you have regular cycles and cervical mucous, don't assume it will take a long time.

If you take Plan B, you'll reset your cycle with a flamethrower and any charting you've done to figured out peak fertility times will no longer be valid.

LW: Use non-latex condoms and reduce the "wrong" sperm in you. How have you been avoiding pregnancy with your bf up to now?

@33 BiDanFan Thank you. I have learned as much by reading past comment threads. However, I'm an incredibly stubborn person (it's genetic), I like to think I can hold my own in a ridiculous argument, and I like to have the last word. I chose to engage on this occasion for my own amusement. Not something I would do every day, though.

Let’s consult the Mayo Clinic...
“Ovulation is the process in which a mature egg is released from the ovary. Those six days are important because the egg is able to be fertilized for about 12 to 24 hours after it's released. In addition, sperm can live inside the female reproductive tract as long as five days after sexual intercourse under the right conditions. Your chance of getting pregnant is highest when live sperm are present in the fallopian tubes during ovulation.

In an average 28-day menstrual cycle, ovulation typically occurs about 14 days before the start of the next menstrual period. But in most women, ovulation occurs in the four days before or after the midpoint of the menstrual cycle. If, like many women, you don't have a perfect 28-day menstrual cycle, you can determine the length and midpoint of your cycle by keeping a menstrual calendar.”

So... unless you have an irregular cycle, realistically there is a SIX day window where you can get pregnant. That leaves 24 days a month where you can be pretty much assured you won’t get pregnant. Add three or four days on either end to be safe and you still have a couple weeks to play.

It’s not a bad option if all the other contraceptive measures are off the table.

@33 super surprised that you're advocating that a single sex act defines someone's orientation. I could be a straight male and have one homosexual experience. A whole army of girls in their 20s and 30s are straight but had a few experiences in college. Two lesbians can still call themselves lesbians if once a year they have a male friend giving some head. For shame.

I am more on board with you for a discussion of this guy being gay or being bi but in the end think its none of our business. Maybe he just likes getting a woman off?

@44 What about the lesbian women who like to watch gay porn? Are they still lesbians? If porn is okay, is the married-to-a-woman guy who only watches gay porn straight because its just porn?

Why are you trying to tell people what they are? I thought that was what Trumpers did. If these lesbians have a friend who likes to go down on women and they can play with each other and enjoy it, they should have fun with it and not have to change their orientation.

Its not one way or the other.

First, we get a letter from a supposedly 39 yo who supposedly dealt with online bs for years, asking what is supposedly wrong with a supposedly 26 yo long time erotic correspondent. Now we have a supposedly woman in her 40's asking for contraception tips, as if the presence of two tips is any different than one.
Conspiracy theory #1: sporty was faking both in order to prove us how stupid women are.

I wonder a lot of times, CMD, if people are really so ignorant or perhaps fakes. My working theory (not a conspiracy theory though) is that a lot of people just like to think up a reason to write to Dan because they want the attention. Sort of like if you go to any forum on any topic that opens questions up to the audience and half the people who get in line are folks that start with something like "this is more a comment than a question" or whatever. In short, they like to see their words in print, want to talk about their escapades, and don't have the bullheaded good sense to do it in the comment section like a self-respecting blowhard like myself knows to do. Combine that with the humble brag about how 'kinky' and 'exciting' they are, and voila!

But if they stopped writing, where would the fun in that be? So I say, carry on!

@33 re @5, I agree with you on the moral implications, but would also say that, if they want to explore this part of their sexuality, it will be a ton easier without kids around. If they don't do it now, good chance they won't.

I am a little surprised that they are in their 40's and still waiting for finances to come together for kids. Kids are expensive, sure, but they are a lot more expensive if you need IVF, and most of us deal less well with interupted sleep with age. If things are coming together, I would be inclined to talk to a medical professional about the virtues of waiting vs. moving forward.

Moreover, they should find a good OB/GYN now and ask these questions of someone who is, you know, Qualified. Ounce of prevention and all that. And if they are too embarrassed to ask their OB/GYN about a third, 1) get over yourself or get a different doc and 2) wait, you are 40+, hoping to have kids, and didn't think to go to a doctor with this question? Oh, and 3) there's this organization called Planned Parenthood. They are there to help people, you know, plan parenthood. So much better than asking Dan and so So much better than trusting some randos in the comments. You can probably find one, and it might be worth it even if you have to travel out of state. You probably need to find an OB/GYN anyway, but I guess that can wait until you are ready for pregnancy (though again, more information is more power and you could end up shooting yourself in the foot financially if you don't talk to a doctor).

And Dan, WTF are you doing giving psuedomedical advice without at least a "you should also talk to your doctor" mention? Speaking of people who should be old enough to know better...

:Unless you really, really want/need/desire, in general, another man's cock in your pussy or really, really want/need/desire that particular man's cock (size, race, whatever) in your pussy, there is a simple solution. No PIV without a condom, but PIM and PIA bareback. If necessary explain that you don't want to risk (at all) an unwanted pregnancy. Most men will gladly trade condom PIV for bareback PIM and especially PIA

no PIV with the third,stay with PIM with PIA . You could give your explain your co

I'm a pragmatist, I'm always looking for a simple solution to a problem.

Good lord a 40 something year old woman seeking out a gay man's advice on the internet about how to get/not get pregnant? What a mess.

LW, learn about how your cycle works. Your chances of getting pregnant if you "time it right" are between 1-7% at most "off" times of your cycle. Use a non-latex protection, or a silicon diaphragm (a new company Caya makes a great one that you don't have to be fitted for). Or/and have him pull out. Your STI risk prevention is on you, you sound like you're mostly concerned about pregnancy.

No to IUDs (paraguard gave me chronic vaginal infections, copper set off my healthy vaginal bacteria and years later things are still not right). Vaginal infections (yeast or BV ) are side effects of paraguard. Not a good idea if you're trying to conceive.

But most of all, with a MMF and a bi husband, why not just not have PIV with the third as others have suggested? Suck dick, have him eat pussy, maybe even do anal, but skip the PIV. Let your husband get fucked or do the fucking there. Everyone's a winner.

Tell Kevin, tim browne @43, that whatever label is attached, he’s a star to me.

Calliope @36, sure. Lord knows I ignore my own good advice often enough! ;)

Larry @48, laughs. Did you miss the part where this guy is having MFF threesomes -on a regular basis-? It's not something he experimented with and then rejected. Sure, okay, it's nobody's business, but it was Tim who brought the guy into the discussion, making him our business. It's his prerogative to identify however he wants, but I'm sure Venn appreciates my assertion that men who love to eat pussy are not gay. "It's not one way or the other" -- exactly, that's what "bisexual" means.

EmmaLiz @51, agree. This letter had the whiff of humblebrag to me too. Surely if she was actually curious about birth control options (despite her own letter proving she already knew the answer), she would go to Planned Parenthood.org. I agree with you that she probably wanted to squee to someone about this exciting escapade she had planned, and chose Dan, in the disguise of a question.

CMD @50, as for the 39-year-old with the mad crush, mad crushes tend to cloud our judgment at any age. We women grow up immersed in messages that "men always want sex," which are typically borne out by our experience. Add to that plain old-fashioned dickful thinking and I think we can rephrase her letter as, "I'm really hot for this hot young guy, is there anything I can do to get him to fuck me?" Not as much an actual question as venting her frustration. But I agree with Emma -- keep the letters coming, even the obvious ones!

Reproductive health professional here.
Misconceptions so far- you can fall pregnant whilst using an IUCD (copper) or IUS (Mirena) but it is more likely in younger women, and the rates of pregnancy are extraordinarily low overall. If a woman falls pregnant whilst using an implantable intrauterine device, the pregnancy is more likely to be ectopic.
Secondly, the mainstay of my work is seeing women in their forties who cannot conceive. About half of 40 year olds will be able to conceive but the rates drop sharply year by year. In my practice, I see tons of 40 year olds, but almost no women 45 and over with their own embryos. My advice to any woman in their forties planning pregnancy is -start now. Time is not your friend. Further, should you experience fertility problems, the IVF 'take home baby' rates fall very dramatically also. It falls from 20% per transfer cycle in 35-39 year olds, to 8% per transfer in 40-45 year olds, to 1% in 45 plus. And the word 'transfer' implies a successful cycle where enough eggs were retrieved and fertilized to survive to 5 day transfer- and that is by no means all cycles. This woman may end up out of time if she delays much further. She may be out of time now, because past fertility is not a predictor of older fertility to any great extent.
Thirdly, she should not be allowing randos to ejaculate inside her. Cycle length, as discussed above, can be unpredictable, and becomes more so in the forties, when cycles start to shorten. And that is before you factor in risk of STI transmission and the possibility of tubal damage. If she wants penetrative intercourse with her thirds, it should always be with a condom- and her partner should be aware of the small chance of non-paternity should conception occur. The gap between perfect condom use and use in practice is fairly wide.
Finally, hormonal IUS contraceptives get an undeserved bum rap. In those who use progesterone IUS such as Mirena or Skylar, menstrual bleeding is significantly reduced or may become absent altogether, which results in higher blood count (haemoglobin) and higher iron stores, fewer days off work secondary to heavier bleeding and cramping, good treatment of many types of pelvic pain, and excellent contraception. As demonstrated in the Colorado health Initiative, the fall in unplanned and teenage pregnancy rates have major benefits on the macro level. There are a lot of myths going around about these contraceptives that are totally unfounded. I wish they could be offered to all women for free. They don't suit absolutely everybody, but they can be almost miraculous in a significant proportion of the female population.

Thank you, Lindy. Good point about cycles in women over 40 being unpredictable, so she may not know when her fertile days are.

Ms Fan - While I do think words should mean things and I suspect I'd agree with you if I knew the person in question, I can just, with a great deal of squinting, see the brief as defensible on the evidence so far presented. We have no knowledge that the defendant's enjoyment is erotic in nature. It could be for him a completely non-sexual activity, perhaps like golf or croquet. Or he may be testing himself - proving that he's a better satisfier of women than straight men who belittle him for his sexuality, similarly to the way some atheists enjoy being able to thump Christians on knowledge of the Bible.

Could you accept a No Woody, No Hetero provision?

To clarify, NWNH was meant not as bi-erasure but as a denial of any OS effect to the act in the sense of that vile No Homo attachment to MM appreciation that could come across as SS.

It might also have been influenced slightly by that film Bedrooms and Hallways.

@62 vennominon
"... that vile No Homo attachment to MM appreciation..."
F yes, I heard someone in the media make that vile attachment recently and was horrified. (It's also horrifying that apparently there are subcultures in which that is embraced.)

I would like anyone who has said that to know how (not just horrifyingly offensive but also) pathetic they sound to a;; healthy people, and that we know that it is very likely that someone saying that is themselves closeted because they're too cowardly/fearful (of the other bigots like themselves) to be seen (likely even to themselves) to be who they are.