Griz!

Thank you, Dan, and Dr. Ashley Winter for offering further comprehension and understanding of penile length and health regarding SIS. I learn something new every week reading Savage Love. Kudos and keep up the awesome work.:)
MSFS: Your situation sounds like a Yahtzee to me, too. Count your blessings.

For SIS - My take is that men fall into 4 categories of penis size, and variation within that matter very little:

1 - Micropenis. Deal breaker.
2 - Tiny dick in some way. Brunch fodder but acceptable
3 - Nice dick in some way - Girthy or modestly length or some combination of both.
4 - Too Big Dick. Baby Arm status. Some women will attempt to climb the mountain, some won't bother.

Worst case scenario, you've gone from Cat 3 to Cat 2, which isn't so bad. No one's going to dump you for it, and if you're thrusting, you'll get some of that length back, so while she won't see your longer dick, you'll still be able to hit the spots you could before. As long as your getting to the cervix your dick is big enough to do all the stimulating you are otherwise capable of with technique and rhythm and timing etc.

When assessing a man as a potential life partner, most straight women probably have a range they find acceptable, from "a little small but fine" to "a little large but fine."

The range will vary for each woman, because bodies & tastes differ (some women really enjoy feeling stretched or pounded, some women have a low cervix, some women prefer oral, or anal, etc.)

When assessing a man for other kinds of sexual connections (one night stand, short fling, occasional sex partner, whatever), a woman might have a completely different range.

Now a micropenis or a huge penis might be fine -- especially if he has the right size fist, or loves going down, or is great at shibari, or whatever she loves, and doesn't mind skipping PIV.

No man is putting his fist up my fanny, Erica.

Not with that attitude, LavaGirl! :D

Aw, c’mon, Lava @5... be a sport!

Why do I suddenly sense a scene from The Witches of Eastwick (1987; starring Jack Nicholson, Cher, Susan Sarandon, and Michelle Pfeiffer, among others), in which the three leading ladies, local pals Alexandra, Jane, and Sukie fantasize over martinis about their ideal man:
Sukie (Pfeiffer): "Huge!" (giggles)
Jane (Sarandon): "I prefer small."
Alexandra (Cher, scoffs): "Yeah, right, Jane!"
Jane (defensively): "Aesthetically,, yes...Sam was huge and there were times when I just could not face it."
Alexandra: "Yeah, well, okay (sticks out her tongue)....I'm sorta in the middle myself...but if it fits, it's in!"
(They clink glasses).

Now I'm going to have to watch that movie tonight. :)

@6 wizeman and @7 DonnyKlicious: After surviving a toxic marriage, I have to say no on fists, too, guys.

Funny guys, funny.
@10, conqueror57, I’m talking Commonwealth fanny not US fanny..
“ she’ll get splinters in her little fanny.. don’t marry me..” it’s a musical movie memory.
No one and nothing goes up my arsehole. Except that time in the hospital a camera went up, but that’s it.

LW1, don’t stress, many “ I’m only 54” yr old women are noticing some body bits drooping.
Find shorter women maybe, less distance to cover.

Having no other specifics and therefore no clue really, my bet is on his teenage self just measuring inaccurately and being a bit leaner.

@12 LavaGirl: At 55 I'm guilty as charged, but wondering how parts of me can be lean while others remain stubbornly droopy (i.e.: boobs). I think that is one reason why the love of my life is a classic VW: we grew up together on a beach, and that sweet little car doesn't blow a gasket about what size I am.

One el dub at a time
SIS- don’t let opportunities pass you by. Expand your horizons and skills and put them to a good use.

Men have treated women all along. I find it refreshing that a woman is discussing all that penistuff and wonder how she is perceived by peers and patients alike.

“Men who want their cocks to look larger when they're soft and who don't mind if their hard cocks are harder to control or flop around during intercourse will sometimes have this suspensory ligament cut, which causes the penis to "drop." Their cocks aren't as useful for sex, it's true, but there's more "observable" cock for other men to admire in locker rooms and at urinals.”

Is this for real? Assuming this is coming from Dan in the context of men-only environments I wonder if this is a gay phenomenon. I never heard of this and have no way of telling befores from afters.

Classic old joke:
Middle-aged guy goes to the doctor.
"Doctor, I think my penis is getting smaller! When I was younger, I could see most of it when I looked straight down. Now I can barely see the tip!"
Doctor looks at the beer belly on this guy and says "I have one word: Diet."
"Really?" guy asks. "What color?"

Badaboom!

I'm here all week! Try the veal!

I’ve got one word for you Grizelda, @14, Gravity.
The mammary glands have no bones in them so over the years, down they go. Wait till the age spots start.

Little kid goes to his dad and asks, "There's a word we heard the older kids use at school and none of us knows what it means. What's a 'penis'?

"Well, son, if you're old enough to ask, I guess you're old enough to know." Dad takes his pants down and says, "Now pay attention. This is a penis. And not only that, this is a PERFECT penis."
"Wow! Thanks, Dad!"
"Don't mention it, Son."

The next day the kid goes back to his friends at school.
"Well, did you find out what a penis is??" they all ask.
"YES, and you won't believe it!" The kid pulls his pants down and points. "THIS is a penis. But it's not perfect. To be perfect, it has to be three inches shorter!"

@17 LavaGirl: Yep. That's exactly what my gynecologist and naturopath say. All this, complete with (now mercifully light) periods and hot flashes. The abnormal is now the new norm. Talk about climate change! But age spots? Really? Do the biological powers that created the universe and us on Earth not love women?
@16 & @18 slomopomo: Bada-bingbang BOOM! lol Call Lorne Michaels--get slomo on SNL!

I don’t know that it’s a gender thing, Grizelda. Maybe it’s the sun we get down here, So age/ sun spots. There is none on my belly, only a couple, so far, on my arms. My mum’s arms were covered in them. I think I did my grieving over the last couple of years. Now because she is free of pain and misery, so am I.
To return to the penis. And slomo is ripping with the jokes.

Okay, slomopomo, Lava, I've got one:

Two men walk into a bar and sit together up at the counter for beers. For snacks, the bartender sets down a small dish of pretzels in front of the first man. A medium sized bowl of potato chips is placed before the second man. In walks a blond Apollo from the local gym who is promptly served a large bowl of honey roasted peanuts to accompany his drink. Outraged, the first two men complained to the bartender.
"Hey, you cheated us!" they griped to their server.
"How? I brought you the drinks and snacks you ordered."
"Yeah, well now we have peanuts envy!"

I got a million of 'em.

Did I mention being menopausal?

A million jokes, impressive. I never remember jokes. I bought a book a while back, quotes from Oscar Wilde. Pitty it’s up home, must be a few penis quotes in there.
Where are all the penis havers, giving these poor guys some help.

SIS says he is healthy, but he doesn’t mention his weight or cardiovascular health. SIS should look shed excess pounds, monitor his diet, get his blood values tested, and start building up his cardiovascular strength by getting into a regular exercise routine. Erections are caused by the flow of blood into the penis, so if you’re arteries are getting clogged or your heart doesn’t pump as well, strong or long-lasting erections are going to be hard to come by.

Yup. What should SIS do? What any straight/bi man should do -- focus on becoming a pro at eating pussy. Four inches is within the range of normal. Few women will be disappointed, but they will be put off if you develop a complex about your dick and demand constant reassurance about it. You're 54; if it's still working, you're fine.

Mr SFS, I'm jealous! Perhaps I have that to look forward to. :)

Congrats, Griz, on the coveted firdt.

Sporty @3, I have known men with micropenises and the women who loved them (including myself) did not consider this a dealbreaker. So even if SIS's dick was half its current size there would be women out there for him to get jiggy with. Second of all, no no no, reaching the cervix is neither typical nor enjoyable (I guess the latter is a matter of opinion). Are you thinking of the G-spot? Interestingly, my medium-length lovers stimulate my G-spot while the longer ones glide right past it. A less hung dude will probably get more enthusiastic blowjobs and has a better chance at anal, too.

Griz @8 and Lava @12, good points. If he's dating age- and looks-appropriately, women won't be expecting perfection, nor offering it themselves. Actually, if the women he is dating are menopausal, they may be a big fragile and grateful to not have to try to accommodate a huge schlong.

CMD @15: I wondered that too! "Here's how you can make it look bigger, oh but it won't be functional." Plastic surgery society has gone mad.

Slomo, Griz, thanks for the jokes! Yes, age spots know no gender. Griz, be grateful we don't go bald.

*a bit fragile. More coffee!

@25 "To the cervix" - my understanding is that the vaginal canal stretches, so for the most part most guys can get there. Maybe the head doesn't touch the cervix, I don't know. I can't imagine a micropenis being pleasurable (best case scenario - do you ever just have one bite of ice cream and walk away happy?) but god bless anyone who does.

Dan really gave SIS the short end of the stick and shortchanged us on his answer. A British Medical Journal meta-analysis showed that 6.5 inches is the 98th percentile, the top 2% of dicks. So for much of his life he was much larger than average. At 4" he is now in the bottom 4% of smallest... Talk about downsizing.

A ginormous interactive penis chart in metric based on this largest-ever survey of cock sizes:
https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/mar/05/what-is-the-average-penis-size-find-out-with-this-interactive-graphic

and the massive hard science: https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj.h1193.full

Ms Grizelda - I'm reminded of Ms Madonna, in that sad film she made with Mr Everett, lifting herself up to a comment of "1989" and then letting herself sag while saying "1999".

That might be an interesting film to revisit. I may return to this later.

Another possibility is if SIS is a grower.

Speaking from first hand experience, erections get less strong with normal aging and for an extreme grower the difference between 95% hard and 100% hard can be substantial.

Ms Cute - Started at the library yesterday: Jane Austen's Guide to Dating, authored by Lauren Henderson and published in 2005. I only had time to go through the first chapter and a half or so, and will give it thus far quite a mixed review. Again I shall have to return to this later, but there is already one major blunder.

In praising how Catherine Morland lets Henry Tilney know she likes him without going too far (the author later correctly points out a deficiency in this category in Jane Bennet), there is a sentence along the line of, "Henry doesn't think much of her favourite book, but she goes on reading it anyway." That is a greater blunder than Frank Churchill's over Mr Perry's putative carriage, as you will doubtless recall Henry's high praise of Udolpho, and how, when engaged to read it to Eleanor, on her being delayed for five minutes to answer a note, he took the book away with him - her own volume - and did not return it until he had read the whole.

"Studies including 52,000 individuals showed that 85 percent of women were satisfied with their partners' penile length, while only 55 percent of men were satisfied with their own length."

How is this statistic informative? All it says is that women tend to partner men whose penis is of a "satisfactory" length.

A lot of men would "break up with" their penises is they could. And the rising amount of labiaplasty suggests women are no happier with their own bodies.

Sublime, nicely done! :D (@24)

SIS: I'm more or less your age and I noticed nothing like the observed "penis shrinkage" you describe. The only tip I can give you is to remove your pubic hair. Your penis will look larger if it isn't half hidden in a hairy bush.

I agree with Sporty @3. As long as you're in set 2 or 3, it's probably fine. I have only once ever run into a dick that I just didn't like the look of, despite being a perfectly reasonable size; mostly dicks are either fine or lovely. (And of course, the person they're attached to can bias one dramatically.) Too long is more likely to be a problem than too short, for me--I don't like having my cervix thumped, and that can mean you have to avoid doggy style or other positions, which is too bad.

I also agree with Bi @25 that slightly shorter dicks are more likely to hit the g-spot. The only vaginal orgasm I have ever had in my life--completely unexpected, and completely non-reproducible, sadly--was with a guy with a slightly-smaller-than-my-average dick. And damn. He was a marvel.

Sporty @27, sure, one can contort oneself into a position where an average length dick will hit your cervix, but why would you want to? The sensation isn't pleasant. Most of the sensation is in the first two inches of the vagina, and the G-spot, which is an internal part of the clitoris, is only two to three inches inside the vagina. Think about it, if two fingers can satisfy, then even very small cocks should be able to do the job.

"I can't imagine a micropenis being pleasurable" -- can you imagine making out, oral sex, fingering, breast play, cuddling, and/or BDSM being pleasurable enough that it doesn't matter if one can't feel much during the 3-5 minutes of sex that is represented by PIV? Or can you imagine anyone accepting less than stellar sex in exchange for a wonderful rest of the relationship? SL is full of letters from people who have made just that trade-off. From a man's perspective, the dick is the be-all and end-all of sex, but from the woman's, it's just a small part (ha) of sexual enjoyment. It's more important to some women than others, of course. Self selection seems to be at play here: the women with whom you get close enough to discuss penile preferences are the ones who would rule out micropenises.

Also, as you noted, the vagina is an amazing organ. It can stretch to let out a baby yet contract to the point where pretty much any penis that is making a regular appearance feels "right."

Jef @32, it's informative because it tells SIS that women are far less likely to be dissatisfied with his smaller-than-average penis than he fears they will be. The men I referenced above, with micropenises (one of whom later discovered he is intersex), are both happily married. And that 15% of women, A, would appear to include both women who think their partner's cock is too small and those who think it's too large, and B, shows that many women stay with guys despite being less than happy with their penises.

RE @34: Good call. SIS, do some manscaping and solve your problem.

To clarify @36, they are -now- happily married!

@10 conqueror57
@11 LavaGirl

Thank you for clarifying, I forgot fanny didn't always mean ass and couldn't figure out why (I mistakenly thought) LavaGirl thought the fist was for her asshole.

Mr. Ven: I can hardly stand to hear about my boyfriend, Henry Tilney, being slandered in that way. On of the reasons I like him is that he reads "Udolpho" with no guilt or apology. Speaking of which, have you ever read "Udolpho?" Talk about a slog . . .

Sorry curious, I forget I’m talking mainly with US people.
Sportlandia, you’re being insensitive and as Fan and Erica have pointed out, a cock of any size is not always necessary because our pleasure button is outside. Fingers and tongues can do the trick. Yeah for nature.
Must be time for a joke hit, slomo and Grizelda? Pretty depressing when posters say they want to break up with their penis.
Love your penis, don’t measure it. It serves its function doesn’t it. Elimination of waste liquid and ejaculation. A double dose of relief and pleasure.

@27 Sporty
There are plenty of women who do not find PIV pleasurable. In fact a startlingly large number find it painful. So a micropeen would be perfect for them. PIV is not the only way to have sex, obviously, and a person with a penis so small as to make PIV impossible or as to make it sensation-less would do well to find a partner who likewise does not want to center their sex life around PIV. I'm sure this makes dating much harder for those men, but it does not make it any harder than it is for women who find PIV painful or unpleasant. (Statistically, there are more women who find PIV painful than there are men with micropeens, so...) Or for any other of the million reasons dating is unfair and difficult for so many people.

I've been with a man who had a true micro penis (he was about 1-and-a-half inches fully erect). He had some very good oral skills (not so great with his fingers, but I suppose he could have learned what worked for my body). I confess that I was disappointed: I'm not a size queen, but I do like penises and this was too small to give me any of that "filled up" feeling I enjoy from PIV, which in my case, doesn't necessarily mean having my cervix pounded (that hurts, though sometimes in the good way, for me). We didn't end up going out long, not only because of the micro penis situation, but for a variety of reasons, though I have to admit that I would have really missed having an average-sized penis in my life, had we stayed together.

I have a preference for more girth over more length, but I have never found a penis lacking as long as it's between 4 inches or so and 8 inches or so (and most people I've been with I would estimate are between 5-7. I've met three men with extremely big penises, and one was seriously that baby's arm thing--more like a toddler's arm. It was practically baseball-bat proportions, and there was no way that we could make that work; the only thing I could provide him was handjobs. We tried PIV and that was incredibly painful (not in a good way) and I could only get the head and a tiny bit beyond that into my mouth comfortably, so I couldn't really give him a proper blowjob. I like anal sex, but that was out of the question. He was really frustrated, and told me he could never find a woman who was willing--let alone able--to fuck him. Yet if he had posed for dick pics, I'm sure lots of people would swoon at the size of him.

The other two guys I knew who had extra-big dicks didn't know what to do with them and expected some sort of adulation based on size alone. They had no technique, had nonexistent oral skills, and were all-around bad lovers. Clearly, they thought that by having a 9-inch dick (or whatever: I didn't measure and they didn't tell me the length), they had all the requisite skills for being desirable.

I just had sex with a man who had the most beautiful-looking penis I've seen in a while: a little longer than average, very girthy, and just somehow prettier than average. But the guy who was attached to that penis was a terrible kisser, didn't seem to care about oral sex (either giving or receiving), and didn't use his hands at all. Neither my nipples nor my clit got any digital interaction. It was all kissing and PIV--and it was boring. I don't plan to see him again, based not on the sex, but because of other major incompatibilities, but his dick was so gorgeous (and mouth-watering) that I found myself wondering if we could work on improving the sex for about 10 minutes, before concluding that no penis was worth having to spend time with that person it was attached to.

In conclusion, barring the freakish outliers of micro and baby's arm, I am happy with most penises, provided their owners know how to use them and are willing to use other body parts as well. And BiDanFan's correct: smaller penises are easier for both blowjobs and anal sex, and so get more of those things, and more enthusiastically, from me.

Agreed with the above sentiments, similar to my experiences. I prefer average sized dicks, (a little smaller is fine, a little larger is fine too) to big dicks, especially since I do not like having my cervix pounded and it's not as fun to blow a big dick.

It's always weird to me how the focus on dick size seems to assume the logic will be different than with any other feature. If you are an extreme outlier (giant/micropeen) then you will have a smaller pool of people interested and you would do better to look for people who are into that outlier for whatever reason (big dick fetishes / partners who do not want to center their sex life around PIV). This is the same logic for ANY feature- extreme outliers matter.

@36 @40 How many times has a LW written in about their male-partners non-working dick and been advised that, well, they deserve the PiV they want and maybe they should be allowed to get it from elsewhere if their partner can't oblige? This is the opposite side of that same coin.

Also it never occurred to me that there are guys out there actually trying to "get to the cervix". It happens, more frequently in some positions than others. It hurts- I think this is the most common experience- I've never heard a woman say it didn't hurt though I've not gone around asking them. Though as NoCute says, it might hurt in a good way for plenty of people, but I never realized guys thought it was a goal to "get to the cervix" just generally, yikes.

Again, I orgasm easily from PIV. It's mainly from the combo of grinding friction with the full feeling from penetration and pressure on the G spot (which is not near the cervix). A micropeen couldn't do it, true. But once we get to the over three inches range, any dick could do it if the lover lets me show him how my body works. The length beyond that really doesn't matter to me, though just for that full feeling, I'd prefer average or slightly larger than average- everything else being the same.

@44 OMFG Sporty. The difference is that if a man has a micropeen, he might "deserve" PIV as much as any other man or any woman who might write in. But if it's literally impossible for him to penetrate and thrust in a vagina then what the fuck can anyone do about that? He needs to seek a partner who either A) prefers non penetrative sex - and there are plenty or B) cares about him enough to put aside her preferences for penetrative sex as the price of admission. What the hell else can he do? And if the situation is B, then yes of course perhaps the couple will decide to let someone seek it elsewhere, just like in any other scenario in which preferences or possibilities are different. But to take your question seriously, the difference is that someone ENTERS THE RELATIONSHIP UNDER DIFFERENT CIRCUMSTANCES.

If I marry a man with a functioning dick and PIV is part of my sexuality and he stops being able to provide it, it's reasonable to discuss getting it elsewhere. Just like in the reverse- if a woman stops having PIV with her partner, etc. Why are you trying to draw parallels between that situation- in which something changes- and a situation in which a person knows up front what they are getting into?

Sportlandia @27
"I can't imagine a micropenis being pleasurable"

People with a clit can provide pleasure to their partners, and so too can people with a micropenis. They just need to date people who like what they're offering.

Sporty @44, I don't understand your post. The opposite side of that coin how? This man's dick works fine, as far as we know. What is he not getting? I'm not denying that many women enjoy PIV, nor that PIV is more enjoyable with a non-tiny cock. My point is that not every woman finds a micropenis a dealbreaker because not every woman is super into PIV. Are you presenting a hypothetical situation where a hypothetical woman refuses to fuck her boyfriend because his penis is too small? Why don't we respond to that letter when and if Dan receives it?

Lava @ 40
“Pretty depressing when posters say they want to break up with their penis.”
Depressing indeed. What’s more depressing is that we, all humans, are constantly put to shame about our body parts, appearance, bad breath, body odor, body hair, grey hair, etc.
Advertisers love our insecurities.

EL @ 41
“There are plenty of women who do not find PIV pleasurable. In fact a startlingly large number find it painful. So a micropeen would be perfect for them.. Statistically, there are more women who find PIV painful than there are men with micropeens.”
My insecurity is on the rise for being average.

No cute and others- what are your penis-beauty standards? I’m happy with the one I have, just curious.

Sportlandia, you've said before that you have a difficult time coming during PIV, particularly when wearing a condom. So you have PIV for a long time. So the women who come back for more are the ones who like having PIV for a long time, and for whom a micropenis would be a dealbreaker because they wouldn't be able to get the kind of sex they need. Hashtag not all women. I go back for more when someone eagerly and skillfully goes down on me before anything else. A nice size penis for great PIV is a bonus -- it's the oral that's the dealbreaker for me.

The cervix is not at the top of your vagina. It also moves. Hitting it is an angle issue. Hitting undiagnosed fibroids (75% of women) is a depth issue.
Sporty you are projecting.

A married couple takes their young son to the zoo. When they arrive at the elephant’s cage, the father excuses himself to buy some popcorn for his family. Meanwhile, the elephant chooses that moment to relieve himself. The young boy is intrigued and says “Mom, what is that long thing on the elephant?” The embarrassed mother replies “that is the elephant’s trunk”. The boy says, “No, the thing at the other end.” Mom is still avoiding the obvious and stammers “Oh, that is the elephant’s tail.” “No, no,” says the boy, “the thing underneath.” The blushing mother says, “Oh, that’s nothing“.
The father returns with his popcorn and the mother excuses herself so she can regain her composure. The young boy persists with his curiosity - “Dad, what is that long thing on the elephant?” “Well, son, that is the elephant’s trunk.” The boy, beginning to get frustrated, says “The thing at the other end!” to which the father replies “That is his tail.” The young boy says “The thing underneath.” The father catches his drift, pauses for a moment, and responds “That is the elephant’s penis.” The boy says “why did mom say it was nothing?”
“Son,” the man replied, “I’ve spoiled that woman.”

Are we getting messages about Sportlandia's dick?

Were we meant to infer that from Sportlandia's information @3 that he has a "Cat 2...Tiny dick"?

Should I infer from BiDanFan@51 that Sportlandia doesn't have a micropenis (Sportlandia@3 his Cat 1)?

BDF @51 - "I go back for more when someone eagerly and skillfully goes down on me before anything else"

And I go back for more when someone cheerfully considers impact play (& biting!) part of normal sex (plus being self-aware, fun to talk to, and a good listener).

As far as physical attributes, I like nice eyes & a nice smile. I avoid large penises and tall men (I find it hard to walk & talk with tall men).

I apologize to anyone who read my previous comment before I had it removed. Definitely felt like I provided too much info.

SIS, I have had a lot of weight fluctuation in my life and can unequivocally tell you that weight gain can effect visible penis length. I believe that the calculation is something along the lines of a loss of 0.5 visible inch for every additional 20 lbs gained. If you have not gained weight then it is likely that (as someone previously stated) you simply measured differently/wrong in the past, barring any of the health issues referenced in Dan's answer.

Also, bear in mind that there is going to be variation in a woman's vulva in the same way that there will be with a man's penis. I once dated a woman with a very shallow vagina and it can definitely end up not being particularly enjoyable for either party if the ratio is off. Everyone has their own idea of perfect, so there is no reason to be concerned.

I have to echo BDF as well. A skilled mouth and hands compensates for a lot in a relationship.

I am also curious about people's answers to @50.

Adding is support for the first LW-- women do not care nearly as much about your penis size as you do. My partner is well endowed, girthy and just shy of 8 inches. While it's not too big to enjoy, if I had a magic wand I would make it a bit smaller. The occasional cervical pounding is uncomfortable. The amount of lube and warm up required is sometimes annoying (I like an impromptu quicky sometimes, it's hard with his size)-- I never feel like I can give him the fully deep throated BJ I want to give, and anal is always at least somewhat painful even with the best intentions, alcohol and warmup. He has a beautiful penis and I'm sure it'd feel right at home on a porn set-- but damn, if I HAD to pick between 4 or 4.5 inches and 8 inches... well.. I'm gonna lean to the lower end. Its enough to get the job done.

An aside: I wonder if the stats for boobs are as forgiving in hetero couples as they are for penises (the 85% of women are good with it). I hate my boobs (saggy/empty feeling after nursing babies)-- even though I am an average/ trim weight. I am self conscious of them, and always wonder just how much men might "care." Somehow I doubt they're as forgiving.

As if having less sex at 66 than you did at 25 is YOUR decision. Ha. Please. Unless you are one of those preserved, freeze-dried aberrations of middle age or your bank account has a number followed by many, many zeroes, you can pretty much say goodbye to cruising and gay night life after fifty. It's just the way it is. Maybe it's the way it should be. I mean really, wouldn't you rather be at home with a great novel on Saturday night than sitting in a loud club with lousy music and youngsters there saying, "What's that old fuck doing here?"

@59 "you can pretty much say goodbye to cruising and gay night life after fifty. It's just the way it is." Uh, no. In my 30s I went to quite a few sex party - clubs and was sad the twinks were ignoring me only to find them blowing grandpa looking (like, age 70 looking) guys. Fortunately it is a big rainbow with cruising room for everyone, if that's your thing.

CMD @ 50 - Straight, thickish, not too long, with the head proportional to the shaft, and with enough foreskin to cover (or almost cover) the head even when erect.

Bauhaus @ 59 @ - No. There are sex clubs that lean older, but even in other contexts, I've never attracted as much attention as I have since my beard grew white. From mostly younger people, too (unfortunately).

Thanks Donny, keep em coming. This is going to be a long night.
CMD @50, ive never had a beauty standard, have I erred somewhere? It’s like asking for a beauty standard for breasts, every body has different ideas of beauty.
It’s much more important how it feels, and how the man attached to it uses it. Who he is emotionally etc.
I just wish I could have found a man who is as talented with his fingers as I am.
I don’t like hairless cocks though, to me, now you’re talking ugly. I find pubic hair sexy, and I love how it frames a penis.

Lava @ 62 - "I don’t like hairless cocks though, to me, now you’re talking ugly. I find pubic hair sexy, and I love how it frames a penis"

Same here. We do have a lot in common!

Also what about balls, they are part of the package. A penis and balls in a cosy pair of briefs, so one can feel all that nice squishy, another pleasure.

Yes Ricardo. Is your beard completely white or with flecks of brown/ grey thru it.
Underarm hair too, that can drive me crazy. Dan used to put up some beautiful photos of underarm hair, and I’d swoon. Ballet dancers are as good I guess, all that squishy on show and beautiful legs.

Ms Cute - I cannot recall even having ever seen any of Mrs Radcliffe's novels.

Henry's conduct would make a short list of times when boasting about and taking pride in poor behavior would be most forgivable, or at least would be most likely to raise the miscreant in one's estimation.

What a pity there are so few dates in Miss Austen. I just had the thought, inspired by Tudor historian Claire Ridgeway, that it might be rather fun to work up something On This Day in Austen History revisiting something great or small each day, but there are so few things that can be pinned down precisely - Mr Woodhouse's dining at Randalls on Christmas Eve, the "Thank-Your-Uncle" Ball given by Sir Thomas Bertram for William and Fanny Price, but not much else comes to mind.

Lava @ 65 - There are a few black hairs here and there, and it's brownish close to the temples, but it's 90% white, really, since my mid-40s.

Oh Ricardo. Can see why the young men go for you. That distinguished look with a devil man inside.

"That distinguished look with a devil man inside"

That'll be my personal tagline from now on.

Who can speak French... the language of Love. Glad I can be of some service to you Ricardo.

CMD - I also tend to prefer girthiness over length. I love uncut, but being in the US, it isn't something I come across all that often. Nice and veiny, with an upward curve to hit all the sweet spots. My first long-term bf had a gorgeous cock. I sometimes wish I could have kept it and tossed the man, but alas....

@3 & @27 Sporty, see my comment @8.. I would fit in with Jane Spofford; I am among those who would prefer small. My first PIV was with a man two years older than I, who was hung like a horse. I lost my virginity to him, couldn't walk right afterward for two days, and there were indeed, times when I could not face it. :/
@25 BiDanFan: Many thanks, and it's my pleasure to be in on sharing penis jokes. :)
@54 DonnyKlicious: Ha ha! Good one. Keep 'em coming. :)
@69 WA-HOOOOO!!! Congrats to Ricardo, on having that distinguished look with a devil man inside and scoring the Lucky @69 Award! Savor the good fortune! :)

I just want to toss this out there: Are we assuming that men only care about the size of their penis because they think women want a big one? I think that's not the case at all.

There are things that a man (and I'm thinking of straight men here and especially myself) may want to have so that he can feel more manly and dominant than other men and not really give a fig what women may think about it. My cock is a decent size and I'm content with it, but if I could wave a magic wand and make it an inch longer and half an inch bigger around I probably would. If a wand could also add 25 pounds of muscle to me I'd wave the crap out of that wand. Two inches taller? Sign me up. And none of that is really because I think my wife would find me sexier, although I'm pretty sure she'd be happy with the muscle and maybe the height. Her liking those would be a bonus. I don't think she'd care too much about a bigger dick. She probably would prefer that it stay the same, but wouldn't mind much if it was a bit larger. Anal might come off the table with too much girth though. :-(

Sometimes men want to be bigger, stronger, taller, richer, have a bigger dick and have more of whatever else than other men because they want to feel like the more manly guy and have other men feel less manly. I'm pretty sure humans have dominance orders like most other mammals.

I'm comfortable with my body, but there are things I would change if I could and that has very little to do with female preferences. I guess my ideal would be for other men to see me as the Incredible Hulk, but my wife to see me as somewhere between Bruce Banner and Captain America. Sadly, that's physically impossible.

Me @73,

But maybe that's just me.

@40 LavaGirl: Oh, no! This is bad (especially for unhappy penis havers)---but now I suddenly have the 60s Vanilla Fudge rock song (Diana Ross and the Supremes sang a recording, too), "You Just Keep Me Hangin' On" in my head and now can't seem to shake it off!
How about a limerick?

An old man from Istanbul
Was agonizing about his tool:
"You're no longer a pup,
I can't get it up,
And now you won't pee, you fool!"

Oh, Jesus---I think I'm making it worse.....

Any unhappy penis havers out there seeking a little cheering up by hitting the Big Hunsky?

sigh If I keep this up will Dan censor me?

If you can’t have the cock you want, honey.
love the cock you’ve got, Yeah.
love the cock you’ve got. 🎼

@73: dcp123: That's interesting. Thank you for that perspective. I wonder if someone feels that way, how the constant reassurance that women don't mind plays out for them.

CMD @50, honestly, I don't think either male or female genitalia are aesthetically pleasing on their own. This is why I am puzzled by dick pics. The biggest factor in my finding a penis attractive is, is it attached to a person I find attractive? I can think of a few that I found unattractive; one was curved into almost a semicircle, with a thick shaft and tiny head, now that was weird. (And impractical.) Large balls and overly hairy are turnoffs too, though I can usually tell whether a man is hairy before we get into bed. And balls are just funny things. But I guess, when I'm turned on nearly every set of genitals is attractive, and when I'm not they aren't.

Qapla @58: I've found, as a AA-cup, that men just like boobs. All boobs. Most of them are just happy to have a chance to interact with boobs. Big boobs, small boobs, perky boobs, saggy boobs, it's boobs! Particularly if your breasts are sensitive. I'd guess that maybe 25% of women are happy with their breasts and 95% of men are happy with their partners' breasts. And at least men with strong preferences regarding size can rule you out before you get to bed, as opposed to penises.

Lava @62: "I just wish I could have found a man who is as talented with his fingers as I am." You have to train them! It's taken you decades to perfect your technique. Knowledge that cannot be imparted by osmosis alone.

DCP @73: "Are we assuming that men only care about the size of their penis because they think women want a big one?" Well, this LW certainly does: "I'm single now, and suddenly I'm afraid to be intimate with women I formerly would have embraced without a second thought. My confidence is at an all-time low. I'm actually afraid to ask anyone out for fear of "exposing" the evidence." Sure, men care about their penis size because they want to be the alpha, and they think that's a factor. But straight men rarely see other men's penises, other than in porn, where men are chosen in large part for their, er, large parts. Can't help but give them a complex. Interesting that you would prefer to be bigger even if that resulted in less sex for you. The human mind works in strange ways.

Griz @75, the Supremes version was the original.

Lava @78, applause! :-)

@CMD: It's very subjective. I prefer the look of girthy penises that have largeish heads. I like a more mushroomy-flared head more than I like a bullet-shaped head.

But that's just the way things look. I have had a lot of pleasure from a wide variety of penises, some long, some short (excluding the micro guy), some reedy, some beefy, some extremely veiny (I like the look of that, too), and some smoother. Some pink, some chocolate, some beige. I don't love a bush so hairy that it interferes with giving a blowjob (and I've met a man who had hairs growing on the base of his penis itself--down closer to his balls, but definitely on the dick--and that was weird to me, and uncomfortable blowjob-wise), but I like the look of some groomed hair.

I really hate when men shave their genitals; if you're going to remove the hair, please wax. There's always stubble, unless you've shaved literally only a couple of hours prior to getting together, and that stubble prickles and feels awful.

I'm always curious to see what kind of penis a man will have because while some correspond to the general body type (long and reedy, short and stocky, average all the way around), some are surprisingly unexpected. That recent girthy, meaty dick I mentioned was attached to a man who was very skinny and came as a pleasant revelation. Although he didn't use his fingers or tongue and I was frustrated with the lack of "let's change things up and do xxxx now," I came 5 times through PIV alone, so it clearly worked for me in some way.

And some penises just feel /right/ when they go inside me. It's a cliché, but that expression, "made for each other" sometimes seems to apply. I have had three boyfriends who, every time they would initially penetrate me, I'd have the feeling of "ahh: THIS. This just feels just right."

Unlike BiDanFan, i am capable of seeing a penis as objectively beautiful, even if I don't find the man it's attached to all that attractive. But a beautiful dick on a man I'm not interested in has extremely limited appeal. I actually do like looking at dick picks--if I'm in a relationship with the man who's sending them and have already enjoyed said dick or am planning to enjoy it in person. But I don't want to see the dick of any and every random stranger.

@46 the point is, there has been broad agreement that you simply can't make up for unsatisfactory PiV - no amount of oral, fingers, toys, etc is enough. I don't know what the fuck else you're talking about in this context.

This info is from ten years ago--I've retired from sex research work, so links may be dead, etc. But Thunder's Place had tips and lots of data from participants on making penises larger, especially in the case of the LW with age shrinkage. And the Aneros forum had lots of info on men having prostate orgasms, which is obviously what the second letter writer is having. The male equivalent of a vaginal orgasm.

@55 TMI - Obviously, I'm a Category 3, just big enough to be exciting but not too big to be scary, duh! And yes, two cats.

@48 you'd understand what I wrote if you hadn't assumed what I meant before actually reading. You do that ALL THE TIME.

@57 have you ever heard of anyone breaking up over their partners breast size? I've literally never heard that. There are people that prefer a large chest and people who prefer a small chest, and they may not cross over in terms of who they date, is that the same? But I've heard numerous "had to break up because he was too small to please me".

@80 I think it's clear that the urge to Dick Pic is hard-wired. Many male primates use their penis as a courtship/mating indicator. Dick Pics in western society are never depicted as a glamorous thing for men to do (unlike for women, for whom "glamour photography" is an entire industry) and they aren't discussed publicly except as a negative behavior, yet still in persists - what other explanation do you think is possible?

W/R/T breasts, I think you're right on. I believe it's the act of vulnerability that's most exciting. Sensitivity is important, you always want to feel like you're making someone feel good! Sadly, although I imagine someone licking/sucking my nipples very pleasurable, the reality is that I'm not physically aware of them - I can't tell if my partners mouth is on my pec or my nipple. Womp womp.

I will say, the association of Large Penis = More Attractive occurred to me WELL BEFORE I even imagined that porn existed. As a child, your penis is notably smaller than a post-pubescent person, so I'm tempted to think of it as definitional in the same way many women reporting feeling like a child without notable breasts.

dcp @ 73 - You've just explained why so many straight men go to the gym, and why the better-endowed among them parade around in the nude in the showers* even though they have zero intention of seducing those around them.

*And the smaller-endowed wear their towel around their waist.

dcp @ 74 - Absolutely not.

Sporty @82, the actual point is that there has been broad agreement AMONG WOMEN WHOM -YOU- HAVE HAD SEX WITH that you just can't make up for unsatisfactory PIV. You are larger than average and fuck for a long time. You are self-selecting for women who really like PIV and would not want to go without it even if everything else was fantastic. There are other women in the world who DO think it's possible to make up for unsatisfactory PIV. These women can and do successfully partner with men who have micropenises. Sure, they may be in the minority, but all is not lost for the un-endowed.

Sporty @84 re @48, pot kettle, you've assumed my childhood. I honestly have no idea what your post meant.

Re @57, again, that's because men can tell how big a woman's breasts are before they get her into bed, while women cannot tell how big a man's penis is (or anything else about what he's like in bed) without taking a test drive. Recall this letter: https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017/01/24/24819548/savage-love-letter-of-the-day-shes-wonderful-shes-perfect-but-id-like-bigger-boobs
So in other words, the breakup over breast size isn't unheard of, it just happens before the unsuited pair even start dating.
Also, you've never heard of women dumping men because they won't go down, or because their dicks are too big, or because they're lazy af? All of those issues have appeared in this very column. Lots of potential sexual dealbreakers besides "too small."

@Sportlandia: Yes, I think there are visible bodily changes associated with maturity that occur in or right after puberty and they contribute to one's sense of self.

Sadly, I have heard of plenty of breakups over breast size, as well as knowing about men who pressure and nag their partners to get breast "enhancements." Some people really, really care about particular physical attributes. And while some of the women in those relationships may have worn padded bras or otherwise misled their dates as to the size of their breasts, for the most part, this is something you can tell accurately long before clothes come off. So if you know that a particular attribute is so important to you that you require it and would even try to get your partner to surgically change themself to suit your requirements (universal "you"), I think you should limit yourself to dating someone who has that attribute to begin with, especially if it's one that can be discerned at a clothes-on meeting.

I have extremely sensitive nipples and can orgasm from having them stimulated. So even though I am not thrilled with my breasts' current (and ongoing) sagginess in middle age, I wouldn't risk losing that for a surgical lift.

@85: Exactly.

Not that anyone's asked, but:

Breasts: all good, except (1) ridiculously large (2) surgically "enhanced" (unfortunately large fake breasts, which often look ridiculous, especially on small frames, are popular among sex workers).
Female genitalia: not that interesting.

@82 Sporty, What does that have to do with this letter though? Or with the conversation about dick size? Or how some people don't in fact want PIV? (While there is no substitute for the people who want it, that doesn't mean everyone wants it.) And if it's impossible for someone to have PIV, then what's your point? I just don't get what you are trying to say here, honestly.

@Sporty re:breast size- the difference is that you can see that from the start, so there'd be no reason to break up with someone over breast size since you wouldn't go out with someone who had the "wrong" breast size in the first place if breast size were important to you. As I've stated before, my only experience with a micro peen was a weekend vacation fling, and I was actually shocked with the guy's confidence to not mention it before hand. It seems a risky way to deal with it- even though I would never be rude about such a thing, it's just true that when you reach down expecting to find a dick and there isn't really one like anything you've ever seen before, it's surprising and confusing. But this is not comparable to breasts since you have an idea of breast size before you get to that point. Dicks- nope. (FWIW, in my encounter, the guy was skilled at other things, we had fun and never talked about it. It's true that it would probably be a deal breaker for me if I were looking to him as a primary partner. He also was already in a ltr and had a nice life, best I could tell, so no reason to feel sorry for him.)

@DCP very interesting. I've said before that I think men are obsessed with creating hierarchies and categorizing everything.

@Ricardo, sometimes I'm glad I'm not a man. So you are saying that men think that there are only two options- go naked and flaunt it, be small and cover up, not that someone could just be modest or comfortable, and then if I were a man, I'd be thinking that other men are thinking that about me, and then be thinking about myself what other men were thinking, etc- how exhausting. But it's interesting to note that men internalize male gaze as much as women do. Such a shame, too.

I don't know if it's the common experience, but in my own case, being a teenager in gym locker rooms (with other girls) was very embarrassing and there was some judgement and teasing though not as much widespread as targeted on a few unfortunate girls who were bullied. But as an adult, being naked with other women in gym locker rooms and in public baths in other parts of the world has always felt very liberating and accepting- a sort of no-judgement zone, natural.

@Sporty- interesting take about puberty and dick size, I think there's something to that. It's probably a similar anxiety- you hope you will develop these markers of adulthood, you have no idea how "well" you will develop them, you compare with your peers. Puberty is terrible.

I have never known people who break up over dicks or breasts though people will keep some things to themselves so who knows. But I have known plenty of women who were pressured by their partners to do something about their post-childbirth bodies, including work out and plastic surgery demands. And I know one couple in which the husband made it a pre-requisite for having chidlren- that the wife would promise to a breast lift after having kids. Stupidly, this woman still reproduced with this man twice. She nursed both kids, they divorced while the youngest was still in diapers. She never got the breast surgery and is now happily married to a chubby man who likes her body while the ex has a new childless wife who looks like a supermodel and is extremely concerned about looks. Everyone seems much happier.

I’ve never stopped being with a man over cock size because as there are lots of different sexual positions, how the cock feels changes. Though I’ve never been with a man with a very small/ micro cock.
I did stop seeing one man because of premature ejaculation.

Sportlandia @84 "I can't tell if my partners mouth is on my pec or my nipple. Womp womp."

Me too. I either don't notice gentle stroking/licking or find it annoying. But a good solid bite or pinch or twist of a nipple -- mmmmm.

EmmaLiz @89 "While there is no substitute [for PIV] for the people who want it, that doesn't mean everyone wants it."

Exactly. If you can't provide PIV, work on other skills you enjoy using, and look for people who love those skills more than they miss PIV.

Another thread where the resident bullies pile on Sportlandia for making an entirely reasonable statement that several women posters agreed with. Yawn. Don't you all ever get tired of bullying people? Or is it a collective goal to erase PIV from sex disxussions no matter how many women love it and require it from their partners? And that's been my experience from all but one woman I've dated. PIV has been the number one preference... FOR THE WOMAN.

Also, can confirm that some women love having their cervixes not just touched, but full on pounded. Are they to be erased from the dialogue too?

Philo, I still don't understand this point. Seriously I'm not trying to pile on, I just don't understand it. The LW is not having trouble with PIV. So you guys can't be referring to that. I assume then, that you guys are referring to the conversation regarding micro penises. In that case, what in the world point are you trying to make? I just don't get it. That it sucks that the guy with the micropenis cannot provide PIV? Yes that absolutely sucks and makes dating harder. But what does that have to do with the centrality of PIV to most people? Or to the advice that is ordinarily given to people about seeking PIV outside a relationship? The fact is, if the guy has a micropenis, he will mostly be unable to do PIV. What can you do about this? If you want to cry about how unfair it is, I'm sure many people will sympathize, but that won't solve the problem. So the advice is to seek someone for whom PIV is not central. And since something like 10% of women find PIV to be painful and fewer than 1% of men have micropenises (and we can't assume that they are all straight in the first place, some of them might be happy gay bottoms) then I think it's pretty good advice to tell them to seek partners who don't prefer PIV.

If you or Sporty have better advice, then I'd like to hear it, but I don’t see what’s relevant about this situation to the fact that Dan often gives advice to people about seeking PIV outside a relationship. Unless you mean that any man with a micropenis should only seek open relationships, which is probably also another strategy for those that feel that way but exclude those who are monogamous. Should they just be alone?

Also no one said some women don't like having their cervixes touched. NoCuteName herself in fact said that it hurts in a good way. What we said is that this is not a majority opinion. For most women, it just hurts.

Some straight men like having their assholes pounded too, but it's uncommon enough that if I were offering general advice as to what straight women need to fuck straight men, I would not include owning a strap on as a necessary part of her capabilities.

EmmaL @ 89 - What I'm basically saying (since of course my example was somewhat caricatural) is that it's not women who give men inferiority complexes about the size of their dick. Neither is it porn. It's toxic masculinity. So you are right to say that "men internalize male gaze as much as women do".

As an example, reread Sportlandia's comments on this thread. They in great part only serve to remind us that he's a "Category 3, just big enough to be exciting but not too big to be scary". And then he adds "Duh!", as if we should have all guessed it. That's about as good a manfiestation of adolescent toxic masculinity as any I could point to. (To be fair to him: most men never leave adolescence when it comes to these matters). But the thing is that we have no way to know and no reason to care; he just needed to put that out there, perhaps to assuage his lingering insecurity about his potential shortcomings. To paraphrase a once ubiquitous line, on the Internet, nobody knows you have a small dick.

And Ricardo, we only have Sportlandia’s word for it. Maybe a picture is needed to prove his assertion. Not that I’m a doubting Tomas or anything, just you know, those who brag the most..

@78 Lava for the WIN!!!
There ya go, unhappy penis havers. Love the cock you've got. :)
So who's game for that Big Hunsky?

And...

...this week's lucky Big Hunsky award winner IS....
(see what I did here?).......

I'll take it.

I might as well add to the toxic masculinity, gym locker room discussion. I will admit that the only real reason I question the whole "size chart" is that the only other live human males I have seen nude have been in a locker room. I suppose if your only experience is porn or people who are overly confident and willing to walk around nude, it becomes a breeding ground for insecurity. Which is how someone can find out that they are over the average and still be insecure and feel like the world is lying to them.

FYI, we judge the shit out of ourselves in all sorts of ways, so please don't think that only women feel that way.

@100 WA-HOOOOOO!! Congrats, SavageMarquis---now you have total bragging rights in the locker room about scoring this week's Big Hunsky, and can bask in the glory.:)