@80 BiDanFan: That's right--The Supremes recording came first in the mid 60s; I believe the Vanilla Fudge recording came out later---- in 1969? I remember both songs because my older sibs had the albums in their massive classic rock and roll collection.

Can just imagine bragging in a locker room about this big win, Grizelda. haha. ‘Yeah man, got the Hunsky on Savage Love. Pretty fucking big deal you know..’. ‘ OkAy’ would be the reply.

@103 LavaGirl: Ya never know....titles and hitting lucky numbers can go a long way for some people. :)

Amazing. I haven't hit the red wine yet tonight, and ----GASP!!----no typos!

Philo @92, show me even one woman poster who agrees that "yes a micropenis would be a dealbreaker for all women because PIV is the most important thing for all women." Even your own post contradicts that, because you had one partner for whom it wasn't. I'm not sure what the point of Sportlandia's comments was either, other than to shame men who happen to have been born with unfortunate anatomical anomalies, and we women have stepped in to reassure any such men that they won't necessarily spend their lives alone. I'm not sure how that constitutes bullying.

Haha, Lava @96! Ricardo, interesting point about locker rooms. So men have the dual inputs of porn and locker rooms, where only the larger penises are on display, no wonder they have a skewed view of what "average" is.

Yeah Fan, some shitty and rude men on here. Not naming names Sportlandia.
They don’t hear. Have to hang onto the belief that the cock is some holy grail. No boys. Your fingers and tongues are the holy grail for some . Sure it’s nice to have a cock inside as well. Not completely necessary. Listen will ya.

On reflection, I'll mostly agree with Mr Ricardo here that the problem stems from toxic beliefs about masculinity (I think I shall start framing it that way, as it deliberately avoids the suggestion, "Boys are BAD!" that some people like to hint - with built-in deniability - really is implied by the TM phrase when it suits them, and cuts off Mr Savage's, "Masculinity is toxic."), which are naturally found more often in men.

This thread reminds me of that LA Law case during (tax attorney) Stuart's brief run of glory as a litigator when he defended a rabbi who botched a circumcision and left what would be a permanent disfigurement (though not one that would interfere with function). The victim's father testified that his son would be subject, among other things, to ridicule of a comparative nature in the bedroom. The cross-examination followed the line that the boy would be raised as an Orthodox Jew, who would naturally marry a woman of the same faith, and that they would both of course be virgins on their wedding night, so that his future wife would have no idea how male genitalia was supposed to appear.

This in turn makes me think of Loitering With Intent, when Fleur Talbot, the narratrix, re-read her first novel Warrender Chase after the first attempt at publication fell through. She could see its defects as a novel, but cosmetic treatment wouldn't do; change a scene, and the balance of the whole work would shift.

I'm not sure how to address what seems unsatisfactory about this thread without striking at more than I would want to change. It feels as if it's not the gaze system in itself to which people object; there's just a desire to replace the male gaze with a female version (rather like the way Mr Woodhouse came around to approving of Emma's marrying Mr Knightley not because he suddenly got over his nervous fears which led him to dislike marriages but because the pilfering of Mrs Weston's poultry led his nervous fears into apprehensions of housebreaking, thus making the presence of a son-in-law in the house a desirable thing).

Mr Venn, what do you mean replacing the male gaze with the female gaze. This is not the time for you to be obtuse. We’re talking about the family jewels here. Show some respect.

Toxic beliefs about masculinity, yep. Agree. Much better way of saying it. Hope you’re not implying any women here think boys are bad en masse. If so, I cry for you. Cry a million tears
I think I’m a little unhinged at the moment.

I think it's safe to say that our culture has done a lot to force people into rigid gender roles, behaviors, and insecurities. You can call it the patriarchy, or toxic masculinity, or talk about the male gaze, and it sounds like a lot of male-bashing, but that's not the intent either of those terms or the way I, at least, as a straight, cis woman, am intending them.

Historically, we've put a lot of collective effort into defining and codifying what femininity and masculinity look like and how they're performed, the purpose of which seems to me to be to keep people in lockstep because difference is somehow threatening to some status quo. This results into a ton of fears and insecurities that one isn't somehow measuring up, and then you get capitalism swooping in to exploit those fears and insecurities and merchants selling us creams and potions, pills and fillers, and surgical procedures that aren't necessary. At a certain point, and if one doesn't have the requisite self-esteem, it doesn't matter if one's partner tries to reassure one that s/he's "manly enough" or "womanly enough;" the culture has already worked its damaging magic.

Toxic is the adjective.

If I say I don't like cold coffee, that is not me bashing coffee. It's me bashing a particular kind of coffee. I happen to love hot coffee.

I just don't understand why people have to get so defensive about the phrase "toxic masculinity".

If men don't like this phrasing but would like to discuss these problems and how they affect them and others with different words, I'd love to hear it. And maybe there are men doing that. But what I see are the ones who are offended by it are usually doubling down on the hierarchies and romanticizing the toxic aspects of the masculinity in the first place- we hunted the mammoth, alphas and betas, dicks cats 1,2,3,4, etc.

I have to say... I feel naive but I did not know that there was a phenomenon of hung men walking around showing off in locker rooms. In my experience in the US (and I'm sure this changes depending on where you tend to go), most women are a bit more discreet in the locker room and the ones who walk around totally naked (and not just while changing clothes, but walking around the room naked) are usually not the healthiest. I've wondered before if it is a lack of body awareness or a (refreshing?) lack of anxiety over it- like if these things go hand-in-hand? The flip side?

Culturally, it's also interesting. I've been to baths in a few places- in Korea for example, no one seems to be modest. Everyone is free and natural in the baths. In Kazakhstan and Morocco same thing even though the women tend to be more modest in mixed company. In India, there are no public baths, but women are so incredibly modest that I think they have a complex over it that limits their ability to participate in a lot of things- they will not change in front of one another even usually, and in a gym will go to the bathroom stall and do it all there behind the door. Even at home, they will not go into a room together and change clothes, many will not even wear a swimsuit. Maybe this is changing for the younger girls as they start to do sports too.

When men stop running into public places with big ass guns to murder dozens of strangers, we can then argue that "toxic" is too strong a word to describe some aspects of "masculinity" in our culture.

@86 no, doofus: Broad consensus here on the Savage Love boards. We've only seen the topic come up a dozen+ times.

W/R/T the opposite side of the same coin: Dan and the commenterati have advised numerous women that if they can't get the PIV they want, that it's important enough to the ongoing health of a relationship that, and non-replaceable by good oral/fingers, that at very least getting outside dick is approved. If someone has a micropenis and can't provide meaningful PIV pleasure, then it stands to reason that the eventuality is that the V-having partner will be advised by folks like you to get outside dick.

Sporty- I still don't get what your point is.

Yes if a man does not have a penis that is capable of providing PIV, then he will not be able to satisfy a woman who wants PIV. If they are otherwise compatible and want to be together, then suggesting an open relationship might be a good solution.

Another would be to be in a relationship with a woman who does not want PIV.

Another would be to purchase a strap on.

Another would be to find someone with a tiny dick fetish.

Since most women are going to want PIV, then yes, he will have difficulty dating especially if A) he doesn't look specifically for women who do not want PIV, B) he primarily dates women who want the one thing he is incapable of providing.

As with a million other things, this limits his dating pool and makes it harder for him to date.

Likewise, there are loads of women who do not like PIV and find it painful. Many of them avoid sex. Many of them put up with the pain. If he advertises himself as looking for a woman who does not want PIV for whatever reason, he will have a very small group of women to choose from, but those women are far more likely to be compatible with him.

And if instead he ends up in an open relationship in which the woman gets PIV elsewhere, why is this a bad thing?

And it's worth mentioning that there are about ten times more women who find PIV painful than there are men with micropenises so if he advertises specifically as wanting a relationship in which they do not have penetrative sex, he statistically has a better chance at finding a partner than will a woman advertising the same thing.

Sporty @115, childish insults to support a childish position.

Again, your hypothetical, first of all, has nothing to do with this man's question, and second of all, is pure projection. If a woman starts to date a man, all is well, they get to bed and she discovers his penis is far too small to bring her pleasure, she can say, thank you but no thank you, and walk away. Or she can say, well that's unfortunate, but this guy is great at oral sex and bondage and a great cook and treats me well, so I'll pay this price of admission.

You are suggesting a different scenario whereby the woman says, "Your penis is too small to bring me pleasure, but I demand to have my cake and eat it too by accepting you as a partner but getting a one-way hall pass to fuck other men." A scenario which I have never seen in this column -- please find an example if I am wrong -- but which, if it were to appear, I think the standard advice would be for him to DTMFA and find a woman who will accept him the way he is. As EricaP says, this is a different scenario than the actual letters we have actually seen from women whose previously adequate partners become impotent or decide they don't want sex anymore, and in those cases, "you are entitled to seek other partners" is standard advice, just as it is to the men who write in because their wives are no longer able or willing to have sex with them. Sure, "seek poly women" is a good strategy for micropenis havers, among many of the other suggestions commenters have made. But your weird attempt to "gotcha!" women by shaming those who like PIV (um, wut?) isn't working.

Jef @118, the figures say there is a huge difference between the number of men who think their penises are acceptable and the number of women who think their men's penises are acceptable. I mean, if 45% of penises were unacceptable, then there would be many more single people out there than there are, right? But glad you found the perfect penis, congratulations.

@119: BiDanFan, you said, "I mean, if 45% of penises were unacceptable, then there would be many more single people out there than there are, right?" And I want to quibble with that.

I doubt that most people in the world break up marriages because of penis size.

As you yourself pointed out, penis size isn't as important to many women as many men think. And most women weigh penis size against a whole lot of other factors in deciding whether or not to marry or stay married (or even to date or cohabitate). A lot of women don't divorce because their culture or religion discourages that, and certainly wouldn't break with that tradition over something as relatively insignificant as penis size.

So it's not just that 45% of penises are unacceptable; it's also that having a small penis isn't generally considered an acceptable reason for the dissolution of a marriage. This doesn't mean that women married to small-penis-having men aren't unhappy about their husbands' endowments.

We really know nothing about the state of people's contentment. But I'd say that more women who are discontented with their husbands or even the sex their husbands are providing, have other complaints beyond size.

NoCute @120, I agree completely with everything you said, I was just challenging Jef's challenging of the data showing that 85% of women self report as being happy with their partners' penises. She's the one who said she married a magic penis. Your comments would appear better directed towards her, not me. Please no more quibbling! I have a headache!

Sporty, I have to echo BDF @119 here. Most of the letters to which I think you are referring center around a woman who's partner has lost the ability to perform. "I love my partner but now he can't have PIV sex and I didn't sign up for a life without PIV sex" is not the same thing as "I chose to date someone who does not provide what I find pleasurable sexually and now I want to cheat".

We will almost always have sympathy towards people for whom time has dealt a life altering blow.

Also, the women who write in about problems with not having PIV sex are the women for whom PIV is an important staple in their relationship. There are no letters about micropenises or lack of PIV from women for whom it is not a problem, because it is not a problem; this does not mean that those women do not exist.

@BiDanFan (121): Sorry; I didn't mean to contribute to your migraine.

I think it's easy for us to forget, here in SavageLoveland, how most people live, and both Jef saying @118: "I don't think it says that. It says that women are likely to be with a man whose penis is satisfactory to them, but it says nothing about how they got there. Maybe many women are happy with whatever, but maybe they (like me) waited for the magic penis - it is attached to a magic man, I not THAT shallow.
The figures don't tell us. Indeed they could be saying that most women won't stay with a cock they don't like. That's as logical an interpretation as the other."

And your response @119, saying: "the figures say there is a huge difference between the number of men who think their penises are acceptable and the number of women who think their men's penises are acceptable. I mean, if 45% of penises were unacceptable, then there would be many more single people out there than there are, right? "

suggest that indeed, most women are satisfied with their partners' penis size (which is why they're still married or partnered), whereas I don't think that satisfaction (or its absence) with penis size is an EXTREMELY rare reason for the dissolution of a marriage.

@myself@ 123: Boy did I botch that last sentence.
I think that it's EXTREMELY RARE for a marriage to end because a woman is dissatisfied with the size of her husband's penis, though she may in fact be dissatisfied with the size of her husband's penis is what I meant to convey.

NoCute, I was just being silly, or trying and failing to. Yes, there are dozens of factors in whether people are happy in relationships. To bring it full circle (ie back to the letter), the LW need not consider his love life over just because his dick's not what it used to be.

SavageMarquis @122, thank you -- at least I'm making sense part of the time!

@116 there are plenty of ESL courses in your community, I advise using them if you still can't understand.

This has to be one of the saddest manifestations of presumably straight men who both fear and crave the attention (aka gaze) of other men, so they undergo the surgery to snip the suspension ligaments, as Dan wrote:
Their cocks aren't as useful for sex, it's true, but there's more "observable" cock for other men to admire in locker rooms and at urinals.

I just shake my head in disbelief at how the male hierarchy imposes its rules, to exert constant pressure from an early age (as happened in my high school with teenage boys forced to be nude for swimming classes where cold-water shrinkage is to be expected).

Why would a woman marry a man whose cock she found unsatisfactory, then later decide it is wanting.. ohhh.. and divorce him. Unless they are virgins. Gee, that would be a tough one. Finding out on the marriage night.

Ms Cute - You remind me of Jane Bennet again. The positive side is that you have plausibly more (in the Austenian sense) candour (at least on the gender and culture wars) in your remarks than anyone else among the assembled company. The negative side is that you're slow to recognize the Caroline Bingleys on your own team.

The image I want to work into this comes from the episode of Daria when Summer, Wind and Penny all returned to the Lane home, causing Trent and Jane to take up temporary residence with the Morgendorffers. Unused to parental rules, Trent stayed out much too late. The ticking off he received from Helen stunned him (perhaps comparably to the way the Brodie set was stunned by Miss Gaunt's horrible sharpness when the absence of Miss Brodie forced them into her class for a week) into hanging his head submissively and muttering, "Yes'm."

You (and any other Janes among the assembled company) genuinely don't seem ever to want such a response. The Carolines want to be able to produce it on demand when it suits them, and all the better if they can deny responsibility for it.

On a side matter, that the author of the Austen book I shall be continuing next week managed to deviate from the general view of Miss Bennet as, like Tennyson's Maud, "faultily faultless," may well be why I upgraded my preliminary review to mixed, given the scandalous error about your beloved Henry Tilney.

Ms Lava - Somewhere this thread jumped from descriptive to proscriptive. I'm half inclined to shrug my shoulder and leave everyone to it, but it will almost certainly go too far.

Enough with the Caroline Bingley put downs, Mr Venn. We all know you Loveee nocute to death, and that’s great. Lots of cis homosexual male/ heterosexual female pairings.
Think Carrington/ Lytton Strachey.
Seriously though, Jane Bennett having five, was it nocute, five orgasms during a tryst with what’s his name, I don’t think so.
Spit it out, who you calling Caroline Bingleys in this thread. Enough with the hinting.
When I read Dan’s column this week I thought.. Good.. one for the penis havers, we womb havers can sit back and let it rumble. But Nooo, once again it’s mainly the womb havers which have made a dent in this thread.

Maybe the Caroline Bingley round here, Mr Venn.. is you. Trying to be divisive between us womb havers. Go back to your drawing room, hit the piano, and shut the door.

Who's up for the Double Whammy (Hunsky + Lucky @69, or @100 + @69 = @169)?
Penis havers? Vagina havers?

I’m not sure- hopefully maybe you? Sounds as you’re very interested in the counts vs the comments, so you go get it, girl!

And then the literary discussions...are there not book reviews you can use to do so? Having to read, then realize it’s some strange discussions that has nothing to do with the LWs is somewhat vexing. Please, dear souls, discontinue. Thank you.

Lava @128, yes, that might meet the conditions of Sporty's bizarre hypothetical. Virgins until the wedding night, then she discovers his cock will never satisfy. Then again I suppose a virgin might not know the difference. In that case I would suggest a strap-on. Works for couples where there is no penis, could work quite well with a micropenis if the guy is willing to put her pleasure before his ego.

Alas, 31 more comments to get to the Big One Hunsixty- ninesky! Get ‘em ol’ Grizlers!

Aeros66, you ever been compared to Caroline Bingley? And this wasn’t the first time Mr Venn threw out his net, casting doubt on the womb having women on this thread. I let it go the first time.. no way was I sitting by a second time.

"Erections are harder to get, their orgasms are less intense, and their jizz is less abundant.” Throw in disappearing balls and immediate deflation upon impact, and you got me to a D.

@73 is the closest, IMHO: the change, and the undeniable manifestation of getting old (not older) is getting LW, and me, down. It just doesn't work or look like it used to. Even allowing for unreliable memories of youth, we know our dicks and know when they're fading.

It's not whether we please our women, though we might say it is. It's not whether we swing lowest in the locker room.

It's that we have evidence of our mortality in hand. The undeniable proof is in the pudding.

PS - shaving does let you fool your eye, if not the hand. And getting rid of the gray hair (something no one's mentioned!) can only help.

Ms Lava - You remind me of Mrs Dashwood when Elinor comments that Edward's character is different from that of his sister.

"It is enough," said she; "to say that he is unlike Fanny is enough. It implies everything amiable. I love him already."

"I think you will like him," said Elinor, "when you know more of him."

"Like him!" replied her mother, with a smile. "I can feel no sentiment of approbation inferior to love."

"You may esteem him."

"I have never known what it was to separate esteem and love."

Taking the high road (and observant people will have noticed what I mean), I shall simply state that I respect Ms Cute, despite our frequent disagreements.

Now, the funny part is that, despite this reminding me of the conversation at Lucas Lodge when Mr Darcy admits to finding Miss Elizabeth Bennet to be rather better than just tolerable and then chides her for her mind's jumping from admiration to love in a moment (let alone love to matrimony), I had decided just before logging on this morning that I would not put you down as one of those on Team Caroline.

You seem to think I'm making a completely different point, perhaps due to some idea of Caroline Bingley's being some monstrous villainess. She just came to mind first when I was searching the memory attic for someone happy to take unfair advantages if she could do so with deniability. I don't hold her antagonism towards Elizabeth against her particularly; that campaign is more or less openly conducted, and her tactics easily seen through by Mr Darcy. She shows more affection than she feels towards Jane (her dropping of the acquaintance could strike one as a forerunner to ghosting), and the greatest charge against her, hurrying her brother to town and later concealing Jane's presence in London from him, can be met with a dishonest version of Mr Darcy's genuine defence of not detecting Jane's really loving Bingley.

Now we have a term here that I rephrased - a rephrasing that you approved in post #111 - in an attempt to eradicate the opportunity for ambiguous usage in pursuit of advantage through consequences that some might claim to be unintended. But not all the Janes and Carolines here are female. Those in one group use terms straightforwardly, without the hope that some people will interpret them in a way they can deny but which will give them an advantage. After all, we have had the direct quote from Mr Savage Himself, "Masculinity is toxic," and I do not recall seeing much in the way of denial in the accompanying thread from those who claim that Nobody Ever Intended Anyone to Interpret the Phrase THAT Way.

Ms Cute's consistency over the years has induced me to mark her down as a Jane; her terminology is made with benign intent and she does not want the misinterpretation even if it gives her an advantage. Another Jane, in rather a different way, would be Mr Ricardo. I accept that he sincerely believes women to be superior to men and wants his usage to be interpreted entirely correctly. The Carolines include Mr Savage, who, despite his various virtuous, I cannot trust to be scrupulous.

I can see how this appeared, as the thread, as sometimes happens, devolved into a number of women's deciding to float the female gaze, to which I've little objection when it confines itself to affairs OS.

Was it Mr Wilde who said that the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about? I'm tempted to consider a rephrasing that the only thing worse than the male gaze is men who won't gaze at one. This may hold equally for the SS male gaze; I'm not sure. Perhaps Mr Alan could adjudicate.

Mr Venn, you remind me of ....Oh never mind.

EmmaLiz, if you do find any courses in Extremely Sexist Language in your area and would like to attend, let me know and I'll come with you.

Jane Bennet, huh? I'd so much rather be Lizzy than Jane (actually, I'd rather be Mary Crawford, but if we're sticking with Bennet sisters, I guess Jane's better than any of the three younger ones). But I can see that I do have a rather naïve characteristic of attributing the best motives to everyone unless and until proven otherwise. It's funny, because I think of myself as cynical, and I think in many ways, I am. "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then, I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes)."

I grew up in one of the environments mentioned in a recent daily, where children grew up together in assigned “children houses” some 200 yards from their parents. We shared rooms till end of high school and showered together till 6th grade or so. (When the social experiment started all showered together till end of HS.)
After HS it was a long, mandatory military service where young men shared rooms and once again showered in a communal shower.

In other words, I saw lots of penises around me. Comparing wasn’t really my thing. Sometimes an owner of an exceptionally larger one would get a jokingly yet appreciative comment of some sort from a group of us, but no one was really teased on their small size as far as I recall.
I also didn’t see any other erections back then, and assumed everyone has a straight one like myself. Only in my mid 20’s did I learn there are curved ones, a news delivered by two women as we scrutinized a postcard depicting a statue of an old Greek God of some sort while in Athens. Mz Mooz may shed some light on the curved penis god. (I bought five of those postcards and sent them to friends back home. All reported standing ovations.)
While I don’t have an issue being nude in public showers, nudist beaches and the like, family/dating situations at home, and also posed nude for artists back in my 20’s (masturbated in the restroom just before to avoid any accidental erections), I’m a big fan of CFNM D/s play nowadays.

Speaking of
Helenka @ 127
I’m intrigued by “high school … teenage boys forced to be nude for swimming classes”. Assuming those were coed classes, it seems like this was a British tradition that also included public beaches and made it to north America.
It is cited as one of the reasons for the somewhat mainstream 80’s CFNM parties.

I’m on a roll. Breastime…
I’m not into enhancements/augmentations, they’re often a put off in real life as well as porn. I find natural breasts of any size and kind unique, personal, and big part of intimacy. As mentioned here re penises, size isn’t really the issue as who’s attached to them.
I always loved watching breasts move under a silky garment as well as touching them in that manner. Nowadays I’m a big proponent of extending the joy to other body parts.

Better advice for SIS would be that he's doomed and nobody will ever want his tiny penis. It's a lie, but a pro-social one that will keep him out of the dating pool, sparing the fifty-something women of the world from at least one irrationally insecure, penis-obsessed man hitting on them.

@73: Yes, primate behavior seeking status in the social hierarchy is the primary reason many men are concerned about penis size. Lots of men, in a fundamental way, don't care what women think about anything, and are mostly to exclusively concerned with what other men think (you see this every time a man complains about another man "stealing" his girlfriend, wife, etc. as though she were not an agentic human making choices about which whom to copulate or partner). As Anita Sarkeesian so incisively observed, in the game of patriarchy, women aren't the opposing team, they're the ball.

These are also utterly toxic attitudes that prompt lots of toxic behaviors (bullying, aggression, dominance, sexist objectification, fist fights over stupid bullshit, etc.), which we should be designing our cultures to mitigate, not reinforce (to the degree that the attitudes and behaviors are biologically predisposed, we probably can't eliminate them, but we can socialize people to exercise self control and restraint).

CMD @145

Oh, heavens, no. Strictly segregated swim classes. Mind you, we girls had our own concerns, as we were issued these shapeless navy cotton one-piece suits that flattered absolutely no one. When I discovered bikinis at the department store in 1971 for a swim party, I was in heaven.

We also had our own experience of hierarchy imposed as our swimming teacher NEVER put a suit on and never got into the pool herself, making me wonder whether the boys also had a clothed "teacher". Hmm, I guess nudity was okay for the boys but beneath his dignity.

@147 - SIS is unlikely to just quietly accept that lie. More likely, he would turn his insecurities & anxiety outward into anger at women, whom he would then treat badly.

I'd rather reassure him that he can find partners if he works on his insecurities and becomes comfortable in his body, and accepts a partner's body the way it is too.

Helenka- I may have had my hopes high after that convention center testimonial awhile ago, as I’m related to the industry and still chuckle on occasion. (Unfortunately with today’s technology and security presence reenactment of any of any kind would be quite challenging.)
That said, I’m not backing up from my position on the need to outlaw mayonnaise.

I always fancied Peter Fonda. Easy Rider when it came out, was groovy, mind blowing and far out. Loved it, except for the LSD bit, so I’ve never tried it. The music made it.
Those two looked like they were stoned all the way thru. Mr cool Fonda, you could see his father in him. The other fucker, mad as a cut snake. And Jack Nicholson as a young man. All you saw was the twinkle in his eye. One of the women in the movie with them. Karen Black, sure that’s the name.
Not a classic beauty or pretty girl. A woman with an edge.
RIP dear Peter Fonda. He joins my Mother, who died earlier this week in the unknown realm.
So, Miley and Liam splinting, again, not a year married. I’d direct this to Mr Venn. But he’s in Coventry.
Liam’s back on home turf now, and these young Aussie girls will be hiding his passport.
God, I hope we don’t get a wrecking ball song again.

It was a very tragic film, Easy Rider, of course with both of them getting shot at the end.
Boom Boom. I didn’t see that coming, it’s still
Imprinted in my mind. Like wtf just happened.
Classic movie.

@151 LavaGirl: So true about Easy Rider (1969). It's indeed, a classic. My older sister once met actress Karen Black, by chance, years later. Black was nearby acting in a film on location, was wandering about in the neighborhood, and admired my sister's house. I remember Karen Black co-starred in Five Easy Pieces with Jack Nicholson, too, as his girlfriend, Rayette. That movie had been filmed in the San Juan Islands near where I grew up. The chicken salad sandwich scene at the roadside cafe still cracks me up.
@152 LavaGirl: Wow--you are not kidding! The poignant ending to Easy Rider when Peter Fonda and Dennis Hopper got shot was and still is a real shocker for me.

@134 & @137 aeros66: Actually, I do read the comments, answering to those addressed to me, or if it's a subject I can relate to and therefore share my own experience. My numbers game isn't meant to annoy, but rather add a fun weekly contest to see who lands on the predesignated lucky numbers. If you don't want to participate when commenting you can always avoid landing on numbers ending in 69 or 00.

Yeah, that was a classic movie too, Grizelda.
Five Easy Pieces. I remember maybe a piano scene. Those two together.

@155: LavaGirl: If you really want to hear Jack Nicholson impressive on a piano, see The Witches of Eastwick, in a scene with Susan Sarandon (1987).

Griz update: Movie nights! Fellow Leo Griz saw two with Robert DeNiro (whose birthday is August 17th): Meet the Parents and Meet the Fockers. Tomorrow I'm watching Dirty Dancing, (1987) in memory of the late Patrick Swayze, and Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid (1969), and The Sting (1973) in honor of Robert Redford's 83rd birthday today.

What can I say? I love celebrating birthdays.

Griz is admittedly comfortably numb with red wine, but I just love how Robert Redford and Brad Pitt look like biological father and so (they aren't). When there is a bio pic about Robert Redford Brad will be a shoo in for the role of Redford.

Why do I type better when inebriated?

John @147: Ha! I for one saw the humour in your suggestion.

Griz, I forgot Patrick Swayze had died. And you're right about Pitt and Redford! Robert Redford is still alive so it's not too late for them to play father and son.

On reflection, I think that representation of the less scrupulous people should be made over to Frank Churchill. (This came to me when I finally arrived at the frame of who would be, for example, willing to spread a deliberate lie if it made the difference between winning and losing the next presidential election.) I was just led into the obvious comparison by past examples of Ms Cute's demonstrating clearly not being aware of what some of her teammates were doing that was going against her principles, while others would attempt to dismiss such Own Goals with Whatabouting.

@155 LavaGirl: Five Easy Pieces came out in 1970, a year after Easy Rider, showing a gritty young Jack Nicholson ("Hold the chicken") as Bobby Dupea, a concert pianist from a wealthy family opting for blue collar work on a California oil rig. Later he hitches a ride up to Alaska. So much for his pregnant girlfriend, Rayette, whom he leaves behind.
@159: If we can coax Robert Redford out of retirement, I'd LOVE to see a Redford / Pitt father and son movie!

Thanks Grizelda. I remember lots of Easy Rider, the other classics fron that time,only fragments. Chinatown, Rosemary’s Baby, Blow Up, Zapriski Point, Two For the Road.. best romantic movie ever .. etc.

Zabriskie, some Pink Floyd on the sound track, Careful With That Axe Eugene on the trailer. I had the bootleg back in the days...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HbvIBtjCyI4

@144 CMDwannabe Hmm. I'm not sure there's a particular god in Greco-Roman mythology associated with a curved penis, but there are several gods/creatures frequently depicted with/associated with imagery of erect penises.

Like many other ancient cultures, the Greeks could be somewhat phallus-obsessed. There is even a descriptive word for a depiction of an erect penis: ithyphallic.

Hermes was sometimes depicted with an erect penis. Dionysus, of course, as the god of all things drunken and depraved, is often depicted with an erect phallus. Followers of Dionysus such as satyrs (part goat, part man) and sileni (part horse, part man, but not like a centuar) are often depicted as ithyphallic. In fact, the only image I can find of an ancient Greek statue with a curved penis is a silen.

Then there's Priapus. He was a god of male virility and fertility (also a protector of gardens, crops, and, surprise surprise, male genitalia), almost always depicted as ithyphallic. In fact, statues of him with a wooden sickle and an enormous erect penis were used as scarecrows and threats against thieves. He was, fittingly, a son of Dionysus and Aphrodite. His huge, constantly erect phallus is why his name is the source of the modern medical term "priapism" (a sometimes painful erection that lasts longer than four hours, which you hear about as a side effect of Viagra and the like).

*a silenus

**Actually, I'm not sure the singular for silent. It's a Latin term for a Greek mythological creature, so who cares anyway.

*sileni, not silent. Christ.

Thanks Ms Mooz. I think that regardless of inclination and affiliation most will agree that the penis is indeed a truly magical organ.
Sadly it is often used in the context of harming and conquering, as well as lightheadedness and plain assholism, which is why I object to terms like dick head, schmuck, being a dick and the like.
Few years ago I announced here the establishment of PLO, the Penis Liberation Organization, an educational outreach dedicated to combating and eradicating such negative associations.
At least one person objecting to "cunt" took a note.

Speaking of conquering and harming, the bible refers to a weapon as a “tool of armament,” or “klee zayin” in the original soundtrack. “Zayin,” armament, is also the 7th letter in the original soundtrack’s alphabet. Not only it always was the most common reference to a penis in modern soundtrack, it was also verbalized to convey the same meaning as I’ll fuck you or screw you in the context of harming and destroying.
Apparently everyone needs a PLO of their own.

Griz?

Sorry, folks. I couldn't resist this time. Thank you, CMD, for giving me an opening I could not refuse. I will indeed, savor my good SL fortune with more films honoring Robert Redford's birthday (age 83 today), and the late Patrick Swayze, who would have been 67. Rest in peace, Patrick. You'll always be hot dance instructor Johnny Castle to me :)

So a guy goes in to see his doctor and the doctor asks, "What seems to be the problem?"

"Well.. this is a bit embarrassing but uh.. it's my penis. It's umm, well, it's turned bright orange."

"Hm, that's odd.. let's a take a look."

The guy drops his pants and the doctor says, "Wow, that is certainly bright orange alright. Well now. Have you had any recent changes in the house like a new brand of soap or laundry detergent, anything like that?"

"Nope, nothing like that."

"What about your lifestyle.. any sudden changes in your diet or exercise routine?"

The guy replies, "I don't think so, I mean, honestly Doc, ever since I was laid off work last month I've been taking it pretty easy. Mostly just been laying on the couch all day, watching re-runs of Full House and eating Cheetos."

@136 it's not a bizarre hypothetical - we read about couples who got married after dating at a young age and are sexually mismatched ALL THE TIME right here. Stop gaslighting please. Join reality or leave it

@168 CMDwannabe. That's amazing! I never knew "zayin" could refer to a schlong! I of course know it as the 7th letter of the Hebrew alphabet. It does kind of look like a dick, now that I think about it. Thanks for the fun fact.

P.S. Autocorrect tried to turn "dick" into both "dock" and "duck." I'd say what a prude, but I know too much about fucked up duck sex.

Sporty @172, so now your hypothetical has changed from "woman starts dating man with micropenis, decides to accept price of admission but claims justification for cheating" to "couple gets married too young and discovers they are sexually mismatched." Who's gaslighting?

Ms Mooz
Just when I wrote my very own theory a daily paper online version published an interview with a linguist who traces “zayin” roots to “schwantz”, German and Yiddish for “tail.”
https://www.haaretz.co.il/gallery/lifestyle/.premium-MAGAZINE-1.7693740

I couldn’t find a translation in the English language edition, where it’s all about politics and a dick-headed PM’s wife misbehaving on an obvious election-related trip to Ukraine.
Speaking of election, there is no equivalent to the letter L in Japanese and L’s are pronounced as R’s.
https://www.haaretz.com/

Speaking of Japan, I forgot to mention earlier their traditional public bath system known as “sento.” It is common for all ages to go to the neighborhood facility and put a lot of effort into cleansing themselves. Everyone minds their own business, no one has an issue with nudity. They used to be co-ed till the mid 1940’s, when the US marched in and horrified brave GI’s forced gender separation.

Yes, I think the Japanese bath system has been mentioned here before.

Unfortunately, for all my Jew-y-ness, I do not speak Hebrew. I could sound out the words (though it's hard for me without vowels), but alas, my 4 hours a week of afterschool Jewish education were not sufficient for me to really learn Hebrew. I know far more Spanish than I do Hebrew. It actually came in handy a couple times at B&N when a few customers spoke no English.

@169: Since Griz hit the Double Whammy (WA-HOOOO!!! to me) as well as first post this week, I will politely bow out of the Big Two Hunsky up for grabs. :)
@176 & @177 CMDwannabe: Interesting facts. Thank you for sharing in the event I schwantz some more. :)

@179 CMD: Please forgive my intended pun--I could not resist amid the penis jokes this week. :)

@171: lol. Cheetos--good one, Jack. At the mention of bright orange I was waiting for "my penis has suddenly acquired the worst combover, doc. HELP!"

Ohhh, dear. Now after recently seeing Meet the Fockers I keep hearing Barbra Streisand as proud mom Roz Focker at the dinner table, hosting the Byrnes family, fondly recalling her beloved son, Gaylord's (Ben Stiller) circumcision, done on a freezing day in Detroit: '...and the doctor just couldn't coax little Gaylord's turtle out of its shell...'
Gaylord (cringing): 'Mom! Let's not talk about turtles and their shells, please...'
Nonetheless, his mother continues:
'So now he's got a semi-circle!' (giggles)
Bernie Focker (Dustin Hoffman): 'Roz...honey...you're embarrassing him.'
Roz: But I just want to show the baby album, and...'
Gayord: 'No...Mom, please...' (Stiller and Streisand tug at the photo album from across the dining room table from each other until Gaylord's preserved foreskin from the procedure flies out of the album, into the air and lands with a splash into the fondue.
Bernie: "Anyone for Chinese?'

Dan and fellow penis havers must be rolling their eyes now.

You boys all think Griz is bad now, wait until I'm post-menopausal. :)

Aunt Zelda-
I attended only one brith, ceremonial circumcision, while in my early 20’s, and I’m still traumatized.

As for Chinese- during Elana Kagan’s supreme’s confirmation hearings she was asked by a generic white male republican what she did last Christmas.
“Probably ordered a Chinese takeaway and watched The Big Lebowsky” is a classic ever since.

@184: CMD: I'm really sorry about your experience. All kidding aside, if I were male, had gone through or witnessed circumcision I would be traumatized, too.
Please forgive me---the quoted scene from Meet the Fockers was meant to be funny. I can now see how it wouldn't be for some.

Somehow, I did not know that Kagan was Jewish until just now. Likewise, I thought she was a lesbian and it turns out that if she is, she's not confirmed it, and might just be a single het woman or an asexual woman or any other possibility. Had no idea about her personal life at all, I suppose. Good line, sorry I missed it when it happened! What a stupid question though, great answer.

BTW - now that I read that post, it seems oddly out of place. My thought process went like this:

That's a clever come back to a stupid question, however I had no idea Kagan was Jewish. What else do I not know about her. (Click over to the Wiki page for Elena Kagan.) Whaddya know- Kagan is Jewish. Oh she likes Jane Austen. Oh she's been working with Ginsberg for a long time. Why this weird story about hunting with Scalia? And wait a minute, I thought she was a lesbian. (Click over to Google.) Well, isn't it funny that so many people including me think that a woman who prioritizes career and never marries must be a lesbian. That's wrong for a few reasons. Wonder how she spends Valentines Day? Take out and a Cohen Bros flick prolly.

EmmaLiz @186, that is a stupid question. Reminds me of telling certain demographics of people I'm vegetarian and having them ask, wide-eyed, "What do you eat!?"

Or a non-penis related joke: An American child asks his teacher, "Do they have the 4th of July in Canada?" "Of course not," the teacher replies. The child says, "What do they do -- go from the 3rd to the 5th?"

Aunt Zelda- rest assured, no harm whatsoever.

Kagan revisited- during the hearings it was brought up that she is very nice to her faculty staff and cares about the people she works with.
“Well of course, that’s only because she doesn’t have a family of her own,” was the generic white male republican response.

I have been to a bris -- my cousin's, about 15 years ago. I don't remember being traumatized. But of course, I was not the one being circumcised.

...

My family always goes out for Chinese food on Christmas Eve. Once we went for Japanese. Last year I was still tired from wrapping ten thousand presents at B&N. (Yes, they're open on Christmas Eve. It was almost as bonkers as Black Friday. I got 20,000 steps both days.)

@190 CalliopeMuse: Our family had a Christmas shopping tradition of the Friday after Thanksgiving (luckily decades before retailers ruined the day with Black Friday corporate greed). My father started an annual get together in Seattle where we were all born since we'd moved 60 miles north after a family tragedy for a fresh start. The gathering lasted 19 years until we kids grew up , married, had families, etc. We'd go downtown for a nice, elegant Polynesian lunch at Trader Vic's, ride the Monorail, then some of us would visit the department stores: The Bon Marche, Nordstrom, Frederick and Nelson, etc. or go to Pike Place Market.
Those were the days.

I believe a penis haver should rightfully score the Big Two Hunsky.

A micro-penis haver.

@194 curious2: How about any size penis haver? That covers a lot of cis men and those identifying as male.
Come on guys--6 more comments! Who's the lucky Big Two Hunsky scorer going to be?.......tick.....tick......tick.......

Sure, Griz, I was just joking. And extra points to a female penis haver.

@195 curious2: And me without a schwantz!

Griz, you should get a cut of /every/ jackpot for running the contest!

@175 oh fuck off, you know what I mean.

Let's just make it easier: Should a person in a committed, monogamous relationship DTMFA if they aren't having enough orgasms with their partner, the way they want them?

That's far too broad a question to ask for an answer Sporty, you are making shit up just to get mad about it. There's not a magic number of orgasms, there's not a magic recipe for anything- it all depends on individual compatibilities, preferences, priorities, etc. Might as well ask if anyone should break up for anything- Should a person in a committed relationship DTMFA if they aren't as happy as they want to be?

And the winner of the Big Two Hunsky IS........

The next commenter gets the Big Two Hunsky, compliments of Griz, by default. :)