Savage Love Aug 20, 2019 at 4:00 pm


Joe Newton



@43 EmmaLiz oops, I messed up and used the name at the top, who you were addressing, instead of you.


@95 BiDanFan
"I also take a dim view of anyone who wants kinky sex the first time. See if you're compatible on the basics, and THEN spice things up! Unless of course you met on Fetlife because you were both into the same specific thing, or something."

My boyfriend when I was 20 introduced me to doing kink. I had fantasies from reading but they didn't seem realistic.

The guys I dated after him, but before I discovered any kink sites, either had fantasies or were open to exploring.

I feel far more safe getting hit, than having sex, with a new partner. It's a big part of how I develop chemistry, trust, and compatibility. I met my current and previous two boyfriends through kinky sites/ events. If things wind up not working out, I probably will focus there again. I wouldn't rule out someone because we met through vanilla circumstances.

Just because it doesn't work for you, doesn't mean it's unethical. For me, kink is part of the basics. I haven't had a completely vanilla relationship since I was 20.


@101 BiDanFan
I assume BCP means he brings up the subject of anal right away to find out if she is open to it.

I would certainly hope he isn't just penetrating anally without any warning, lube, or other preparation. That's likely to permanently put her off of anal sex with him, if not everybody.


Opal @104, thank you for sharing your experience. Who knows if something like this is also going on with this LW's girlfriend?

Opal @106, we're discussing preferences, not ethics. I would prefer that someone not try to have anal sex with me until we were established lovers. Correcting myself, anal is not a "kink," but it sounds like for DCP it is a dealbreaker. Ironically, his approach (trying or even suggesting it on the first date) would ensure that, with me, he never got a second date, while my own approach, allowing me to verbally say "maybe" and turn that to a "yes" when and if he turned out to be such a fantastic lover I wanted to keep having sex with him, and built up enough orgasmic goodwill that I was willing to do things that weren't my thing, has led to the occasional anal sex he wants in a handful of my relationships. In fact, sometimes I'm even the one who suggests it.
I interpret his approach not as surprising someone with an unlubed dick in the ass, but as suggesting it while first-time sex is happening, which would put me right off. You work up to that, you don't lead with it.


Opal, DCP says "I would almost always explore receptivity to anal play on the first sexual encounter." Explore receptivity on the first sexual encounter does not imply "have a conversation prior to the first sexual encounter" to me. It implies, attempt to stick something in there and see how she reacts.


@103 a small but seemingly important note - he doesn't say "fairy tale" is her word choice. It might be where he got the term from, but everyone is coming down awfully hard on that specific phrase and we don't know if that's really how she described it.


True, true to everyone saying we don't know who first used the word "fairytale." It certainly did strike a sour note for me. To me, at least, "fairytale" doesn't imply "romantic" so much as it implies "perfect." And nothing is ever perfect, especially first times. This, expecting perfection, is what I meant by "unreasonable," not wanting romance. Though there are many other possible reasons to be delaying their first time, I think it reinforced to me the idea that she was waiting for the "perfect" moment.


@108 BiDanFan
I interpreted "I also take a dim view of anyone who wants kinky sex the first time. See if you're compatible on the basics, and THEN spice things up!" as no spanking and hair pulling and such the first time people are intimate, given the reference to FetLife.

I agree trying for anal during a first heterosexual consummation sounds really fraught. It's more common for two guys, but even so, discussing it first seems wise!

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt on clumsy phrasing. If you are right, I hope BCP stops.


@103 Nocutename @110 BabyRae
@111 CalliopeMuse
The combination of fairy tale sex and sexsomnia reminds me of

I agree with Nocutename that most likely she just means she wants love and romance. As I mentioned before, she might have very good reasons to need to wait for sex to feel safe and enjoyable, ie.

Sexual trauma trust issues
Demisexuality/ emotional connection
Needing to feel desired and swept off her feet a la romance novels from a lifetime of masturbating to them.
Religious upbringing that she has rounded down to needing a loving, committed relationship instead of marriage.

Even if some of the commenters have different needs, it seems mean to call her childish or unreasonable. I have had sex and kink that felt darn near perfect (by my standards, not CalliopeMuse's or LW6's "Dream Girl"). Maybe her "perfect" and "fairytale" sex isn't achievable in reality without some adjustments. So are vore, ageplay, "forced bi", etc.

LW6 needs to communicate with her and find out what she is envisioning, why she is waiting for PIV sex, and discuss consent regarding her sexsomnia. He needs to decide whether he is willing and able to meet her needs.


Ms Cute - I'm sure I'll find a way to compare you to Mary Crawford ere long. But, if you float ideas that would require (almost) everyone to think or act like Jane Bennet in order to work, then the end result is likely to be as disappointing as it was for Marianne when she would insist on having Edward read aloud from the works of Cowper. As for Miss Bates, you're insufficiently long-winded and almost always too substantive, besides the obvious consideration in this particular venue. I might have thought you would not want to be compared to Mrs Norris or Mary Musgrove. What about Mrs Weston?

To any of the It's Totally Reasonable (and how many of you really mean only For a Woman? at least Ms Cute doesn't; I shall grant her that much) To Require a Fairy Tale From the First Time, I shall counter that the closest thing to being universal in fairy tales in the Unilateral Proving of Worth. It would take me a long time to think of someone on whom I'd be willing to wish that sort of encounter. I'm thinking much more generally than of this particular letter or whether the woman in question actually used the term, and urging people to engage with either Princesses or Princes of any gender with extreme caution if at all, with the consideration that using the term constitutes a Prince(ss) Flag.


Generally, I’m all for open communication, but if I were the average woman and some dude brought up anal sex on a first date because it was a “dealbreaker” for him, I’d say, “Hasta La Vista Mr. No Social Filter!” This, of course, is predicated on her being “the average woman” and not Ms. Kinky America, which would change things.


@101 BiDanFan: WA-HOOOOOO!!! Gold star and congrats on this week's Big Hunsky! Savor the coveted riches.


Mr. Ven: Fine, Mrs. Weston. Also Mrs. Croft.
Actually, this is an interesting exercise, as it makes it clear that there are very few characters, male or female, that escape scorn in Austenland.

Okay, fine: I'll be Augusta Elton. No one likes her, but she seems pretty pleased with herself and oblivious to her awfulness. Same goes for Lydia Wickham. I could also take Mrs. Jennings in a pinch (rich, widowed, happy).

I should be Elizabeth Bennet, but I'm probably more Mary Crawford. I am going to argue against Jane-ness: no one I like or love is ever in any doubt of my feelings.


Mr. Ven: Who would cast yourself as?


Generally, I’m all for open communication, but if I were the average woman and some dude brought up anal sex on a first date because it was a “dealbreaker” for him, I’d say, “Hasta La Vista Mr. No Social Filter!” This, of course, is predicated on her being “the average woman” and not Ms. Kinky America, which would change things.


Oops...double post!


I know this is SO last week (Savage Love : Shrinkage), but nobody wants to claim the the Big Two Hunsky? Donny? How about you? No enthusiastic "Aack-oop---pttthhhhhhhht!!!" from you and Mr. Bill?

Okay, moving right along back to SL: Quickies. This week's Double Whammy is up for grabs.


@199 auntie grizelda
Seeing that thread hung on 199, I several times resisted adding something.
The game I personally play with the game is to want to hit the numbers without knowing it.


Baby @110, I allowed in my first post on the subject that "fairy tale" night be his words, not hers.

Opal @112, you've correctly interpreted my idea of two things that would not be appreciated in first time sex, or any sex without prior verbal clearance. My reference to Fetlife was to draw an exception for sex that, prior to the first time, had been negotiated for kink as the shared interest that connected you in the first place.

Dadddy @114: Scissors!? Your kink is definitely not my kink! You'd cut up my custom PVC catsuit!? (Also, "catsuit" just auto corrected to "batshit." Hahaha.)

Donny @116, by "first date" I mean "first fuck." Certainly, I wouldn't expect that to be raised during an OKCupid coffee meeting.


@113 Opalescent Fair enough. I may very well be protecting my general first-time fears, as a virgin. Who knows where any of our opinions really come from?


@120 Donny and @124 BiDanFan I literally had someone bring up anal (me using a strapon on him) on a first coffee date. A preschooler was walking by with her parents just then. I declined a second date.


Ms Cute - I shall take your not calling me Mr Bennet or Mr Palmer as a(n entirely justified) compliment to my PLB. I have something of their general ill temper, but better taste in people. Edmund Bertram would be even worse. Mr Knightley is too benevolent; Dr Shirley too universally admired. Mary Crawford is too personally unyielding. Marianne Dashwood and Jane Fairfax are too attractive. Charlotte Lucas is too over-practical. Captain Harville is too essentialist. Mary Bennet is too non-substantive. Mrs Grant is too obliging. Colonel Brandon is too silent.

I don't think either of us can get either of the Crofts; they're too monogamous for you and too always together for me.

Who's possible - Lady Russell? Charles Hayter? Sir Thomas Bertram? There are a number of parts that would be rather fun to undertake, but I couldn't call them type-casting.


@129: And you're paying for a new catsuit after cutting up the old one, right?


Dadddy- you’re a bit too ager to impose your agenda. Said catsuit may also signal dominance, and being “belle of the ball” isn’t everyone’s dream.


"How else am I supposed to fuck someone in a latex catsuit?"

It's sort of a contradiction to claim one is so much more sexually interesting than all the borings and also not being able to think of a way to have sex with someone that does not involve making a hole in a suit for yer dick.

Leaving imagination, design and sexual preferences aside, latex cat suits look really claustrophobic. Ever had a zipper jam when you try to strip out of very tight clothes or a wetsuit on a humid day and gotten a little stuck in them? I'd be thankful for a pair of scissors.


D @129 "How else am I supposed to fuck someone in a latex catsuit?"

Maybe the person in the latex catsuit is supposed to fuck you?


Way to impose heteronormativity and species exceptionalism on kinky gay cats, Daddy. Not sure why they'd need suits or wardrobes, much less marriage. All the cats I've ever known seem to enjoy rough promiscuity and tomcatfoolery though I once had a cat that would tolerate my forcing her into doll dresses so long as I got her high on catnip first.


Ms Cute - If you would you like a coupon for a complimentary LMB, you may have one.


@136 vennominon
Venn, you're handing out
"Lick My Balls" coupons?

If for you it means something else, please don't tell me, I like it this way.


@PILL talk to your doctor and try a different ED medication, or a different dosage. Also, try experimenting with the time between taking the pill and having sex.


Okay......I know this is SO past week (re Shrinkage), but.....
Since nobody--penis havers or otherwise--- claimed the Big Two Hunsky (I am not counting my comment), and we should happen to hit the lucky number this week, Griz suggests this week's @200 commenter will receive a Double Big Two Hunsky Award.
But FIRST, the Double Whammy (@169). Tick...tick...tick....


Not gonna get there, Griz...comments have already petered out (totally appropriate for SL!)

And if you have too much time on your hands and want to find the origin of the phrase “petered out”...


@142 DonnyKlicious: Does that officially make you Savage Love's peter meter? lol
I'm sorry, Donny---you gave me an opening (especially for SL: Shrinkage) that I could not resist, with peter used as a noun instead of a verb. Agreed that 142 comments on any given week on average is good for Savage Love. And tomorrow brings another SL installment.
Big hugs, VW beeps, and an "Aack-ooop=ptttttthhhhhbt!" for you and the frisky Mr. Bill. :)


Dadddy, let me know when you open that Etsy shop. I have the sheddingist cats in the history of felines. Do I get a price break for ordering in bulk?


@143: By the way, back when Griz was in the service, the slang term "peter meter" was used in reference to U.S. Navy Hospital Corpsmen (I can't speak for the other branches of the U.S. Armed Forces). All I know about Hospital Corpsmen is not to trust those carrying syringes who are always smiling. Ook.


Dadddy @129: Um, they have zippers. Many (including mine) have zippers that go right round to the butt, for this exact purpose. Call yourself kinky and you didn't know that!?


Dadddy @138: Please google the prices of even non-custom PVC and latex catsuits. Nobody but nobody who's purchased one would be eager enough to have sex with you that they'll think cutting them apart is tempting foreplay.


Dadddy- too eager to tell us that since you can find women who are willing to put up with your shticks that means all women are submissive sluts whether they admit it or not, and despite of their initial protest they eventually succumb to your mistreatment and are oh so eager to be your belle of the ball.


Dadddy trolling again. I'm sure he knows full well that catsuit wearers are generally Dominant, and he can't have that, which is why he's challenging their dominance by threatening to destroy their catsuits. Again, it would work. If I mentioned having a catsuit and someone said, "I'll bring the scissors," they'd ensure this fundamental incompatibility would never be a problem. (He could just say, "No thanks, I'm not a sub," but that would require showing respect for others' preferences which he finds impossible.)


@72: Correction: I misquoted Robin Williams (perish the thought! Sorry, Robin).
Here is the correctly spoken line in Good Morning, Vietnam:
Adrian Cronauer, to Lieutenant Steve Hauk: "Excuse me, sir, but being as the former VP is a VIP, shouldn't we keep his visit on the QT? Because if word leaked out to the VC he could be MIA and we could all end up on KP." (MIA, not RIP).
And if anyone wants to see polar opposites of film roles, see J. T. Walsh first as rabid Sargeant Major Phillip Dickerson out to chew up Armed Forces disc jockey, Airman Adrian Cronauer and spit him out in Good Morning, Vietnam (1987). Then, watch J. T Walsh as the voiceless Executive Officer of Bravo Infantry Division, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, Lieutenant Colonel Matthew Martinson in A few Good Men (1992). Lt. Colonel Martinson was between a rock and a hard place with Jack Nicholson as ruthless commanding officer, Colonel Nathan R. Jessup, and Lieutenant John Kendrick (Kiefer Sutherland).

What can I say? I love movies.

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