Savage Love

Physical Ideal

Comments

1

Last LW: what are the friends actually saying? What you hear more of is the fear that he would be using/ playing her... because he can’t possibly find a woman that much older attractive. See the recent Social Q’s advice column on a similar older woman/younger man. It would be kind of refreshing to hear assumptions that a middle-aged woman has any power.

4

@1 Fresh: Congrats on scoring First Post! Savory the glory. :)

5

"Everyone has a podcast these days." Is that true, Dan? I don't. Boy, just when I'm upgrading my Mac system, do I feel like a tech dinosaur. Oy.

6

LEASH minimizes his kink, saying it's just one kink, it's in private, that's it.

But partners may well be nervous about where this leads. If someone is willing to take that one step with you, will the next steps include puppy play, barking, you eating from a dish on the floor, you insisting they run the fuck, you wearing a dog tail butt plug, etc.?

My advice is to be upfront with your current girlfriend (and admit if you don't know how far it will go), and ask her about her kinks in return. Are you prepared to be GGG if she wants to be tied up and spanked (or whatever else she might want)?

Don't minimize your kink in hopes of not having to put out much effort towards your partner's sexual preferences.

And if your girlfriend isn't interested, then end that relationship, get a Fetlife account, and put your cards on the table from the beginning instead of trying to sneak your kink into the relationship.

7

Bravo again, Dan the Man, on your usually spot on advice--especially to TOWNY. Kudos.

8

When are you having this conversation, LEASH? I’m assuming it’s not at dinner on the first date, but you COULD casually work into a general conversation about kinky play 1st or 2nd date once you have a feel for her general openness to discussing things that are off the beaten track. This, of course requires YOU to have a social filter and the ability to read her cues as to how much she is comfortable revealing. With some women you’ll know instantly that she’s a spank-me, lick-me, tie-me-up-and-ride-me-like-a-llama kind of girl, but with others it’s like a game of “Clue”. A laugh in your face response says to me that you’re not giving the question the needed build-up conversation beforehand. You can’t just say, “Wow, those were some good tacos! And speaking of tacos, how would you feel about leashing me up like a dog and letting me sniff your butt?”

9

I would not commit details of a kink that makes me self conscious to a text message. Sure, he's good with the GF now, but unless she's The One, that trust could be abused later.

10

"If you can't have....the cock you want, honey,
love the one you've got.
Love the one you've got."
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo-doo
Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo-doo
Doo-doo-doo
Doo-doo-doo.

Let's hear it for the brilliance of LavaGirl!

11

@CalliopeMuse: I know this is so last week (re @202), but I responded to your comment. :)

12

Don't text it. If you text it, it can be screenshot, shared, etc. Hopefully the gf is not the sort to share it with people, but the truth is that right now you don't know how she'll respond. Have this conversation in person, in the way that Dan always recommends revealing kinks.

Also, maybe I'm off here, but I'd just be honest about it. In the context of a conversation about kinks - Erica's and Donny's advice is good, ask about hers too, think about the build up to the conversation, etc- then when it's your turn to share your details, why not just be honest and say "I told someone about this once and they laughed at me which did not feel hot" then pause for a few seconds to give her a chance to prepare herself to receive the info in a supportive way then immediately follow through with the description. So you're not using a tone of "I'm ashamed" about it- that's a drag- but she does have a chance to compose herself. Tell her about it as if it's a fun thing to do that is hot and will turn you on immensely. Easier said than done, I know, but I can't imagine a decent person laughing at you in a situation like that. Doesn't mean she'll want to indulge in the kink or even have her own to share, but I do think it would help her receive the info without causing you any embarrassment. And if she still laughs after that, then you know she's not a keeper.

13

LEASH: the likely reason your girlfriend asked you if you have any kinks is that she has kinks that she wants to tell you about. Strike up a conversation about it.

Also, join Fetlife, find a munch or two near you, and go out and meet people who wear collars. There are lots out there.

13

Some very nice, thoughtful people may still have an accidental smile when seeing you all of a sudden out of context, out of the way they have known you. Let go.
Not sure how the conversation went on with the exes, did they ever talk about any of their preferences? Did you offer to consider their needs?

Make sure you have an open conversation with present. Make sure to discuss hers as well, assuring all involved plenty room for negotiation.

Respect each other’s preferences and boundaries and set time to talk about stuff. It’s possible that all she wants at this point is to accommodate you and have you lay down there. How long is the first time going to be and what would it entail? Watching a movie, a cocktail on the couch, dinner by the table, reading in bed, etc.
Talk about it once it’s over and see how each of you feel and would like to proceed, or not.

If current girlfriend reacts in yet another humiliating manner than maybe you should consider expanding your circle of friends and dating pool. It may mean reaching out to other circles, it may mean moving elsewhere. If your kink is important to you then don’t try and push it aside, hoping it will fade on its own at some point.
And if your appetite grows and you develop further huntches, whatever they may be, while in relationship then bring them up in an honest, constructive manner and accept no as an answer. Don’t use secret agenda tactics in an attempt to implement them.

EricaP @ 6 has already covered much of this.

14

"I cannot emphasize enough how much I need you to not laugh. Every woman I've told this to before has laughed at me, it really screwed me up, and I'm putting a lot of trust in you here. If the kink is not something you can do I totally understand but please, please please don't laugh at me."
Then if you can't say it in person you can write a note and hand it to her. Knowing other women have failed you in this and you've been shamed about your sexuality is a very relatable feeling and telling someone what you need works. If she laughs anyway in reflex, I promise you she'll apologize profusely. If she doesn't, she's not worth dating.
Or just show her the column and tell her it's you.

15

So did others.

16

This Older Woman Needs Youth: Good for you! Think about it. If the sexes were reversed and you were a 24 year old woman having an intense sexual relationship with a 43 year old man, would your friends be upset or would you be getting a big thumbs up from them? For Gawd's sake he's 24 years old and fully independent. You are under no illusion of a long term relationship but who knows. Emmanual Macron of France is about twenty years younger that his wife, and they have been emotionally (and probably physically) involved since he was about 16 and she was his teacher (thought not recommending trolling for 16 year olds if this relationship doesn't work out!)

17

@5 auntie grizelda
"Everyone has a podcast these days."

That reminds me that in the early days of the net I heard someone enthuse that on the internet EVERYONE would get everything they wanted to say (this was well before the word blog) read by a mass audience. I don't think that person thought it through. Most people don't have a damn thing to say that almost anyone including me wants to let alone has time to hear/read.

Sure absolutely everyone, knock yourself out, put in those hours on your podcast and your blog blog...that virtually no one will read. And thank goodness; I don't quite have time to follow 8 billion people's blogs and podcasts.

Or wait, I forgot about social media (which I can't stand); maybe that someone was right after all

18

@17 curious2: This is why I am a fan of The New Yorker magazine cartoonist Emily Flake.
In a classic one-framer, there is a middle aged woman calmly sitting on a park bench,
wearing a T-shirt that says it all:
"Ask me about my break from social media."
I clipped the cartoon out and proudly have it taped up on my bathroom wall.

19

EL- replied to your question on last week's thread.

20

"Show me your boobs" and "I wanna shove my cock in you"? I don't know any women who find those statements anything but annoying and reason enough to block someone on whatever social media they receive them on. Unless a woman specifically requests those kinds of comments on her page, just say no guys.

21

@8 DonnyKlicious: B-but--!!---wouldn't that backfire rather nastily if LEASH's date farted on him after they had tacos (no matter how good)? My ex once snuck up on me at an inopportune moment when I was lying on our bed, tummy down with no panties on after we'd had KFC takeout and Coronas with lime (I cannot IMAGINE consuming any of that now!). And well, I'd rather not elaborate further on what happened next. He certainly didn't do that again.

22

LEASH, there's no way I could ever be with a 28yo straight guy, but I don't find your kink risible. You will surely find a partner who's the same. Also, give some thought to the wise words of Erica @6 as to where gratifying your kink is likely to take you. Will you want to be a puppy in public? Will the puppy play enter the bedroom? If so, it would be fair to prospective partners to overcome any embarrassment you have and to own your kink, maybe 'coming out' on Fetlife.

TOWNY is a bit like LEASH in needing a boost to her self-belief. There is nothing exploitative in her hot relationship. She acclaims her lover's 'straight-up bravery' ... hmm, 'straight-up bravery'--her subconscious at least knows her motivation in getting into this. My reaction is YGG and enjoy while it lasts.

23

YVOIG's been discussed already:
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/08/20/41141909/woman-finds-evidence-she-isnt-her-boyfriends-type
Funny how the re-run has been phrased so that the opening sounds more like a neg ("I don't listen to your podcast religiously," versus "ADMITTEDLY I don't listen to your podcast religiously.") Was this done to bias us against this LW? Interesting!

TOWNY, your friends are jealous. Enjoy!

Dadddy @3, one for the record books, you made exactly the same comment I would have. And there's our earworm for today!

EricaP @6, good points all. His FetLife profile photo can even be him in a leash, then no one will be caught off guard by this kink. Or he could try meeting women at fetish clubs or munches. Good point as well that women who are into this might have related kinks; is he willing to indulge those?

Chris111 @20: Indeed. Even women who are modelling in very little clothing aren't asking for these kinds of comments. Keep it to a "wow, hot" and the details in your own head.

Harriet @22: I had to double check the letter. TOWNY admires her partner's "straight-up bravery in the face of the current horrors of the world." Not his "straight-up bravery" in dating her, which your comment implies.

24

TOWNY you are not wrong in any way for enjoying your lovely young man, in my opinion. I am a 49 year old woman and to my most pleasant surprise, spent last summer being friends and lovers with a delightful young man of 22. It was so refreshing and unique to be close to someone youthful with a completely different approach and perspective on life. He initiated things with me and at first I was very hesitant, but a natural-feeling connection unfolded over time and it was a special and beautiful experience, that was healing and confidence building for both of us. Plus he was so hot!!! We had shared kinks that we got to have a lot of fun with and no one was harmed. It came to a natural conclusion when he wanted to start a more serious relationship with someone his own age at the end of the summer, but I have no regrets at all and nor should you. Just enjoy all the loveliness of this gift from life.

25

Griz@21~ Been there, although it was when I was a kid and thought it would be funny to fart on my brother’s pillow...

26

@25 until he he showed up for school with pinkeye and had no idea what could have happened!

27

@20, @23

In general (and in the majority of online forums), I would agree that it's a terrible idea for men to leave sexually explicit comments in response to risque pictures. But it really depends on the context. For example, sexually explicit comments tend to be the norm in r/GoneWild. I've spoken to a couple of women who posted there, and in both cases, that attention was precisely the draw -- they were getting off (and enjoying the ego boost) from turning guys on. It's a small sample size, but it seems reasonable to assume that that is the draw for a lot of the women who post there.

Now I realize that Instagram is not GoneWild, but LW talks about "all the men" leaving those kinds of comments -- and I think it's a stretch to assume none of the women he follows knows how to disable comments and/or block users and/or add a few sentences in their bio establishing the rules ("Keep it PG-13, guys").

Women who enjoy these comments are a minority, but there are still a sizeable number of them. From the letter, it sounds like those are the kinds of accounts he's following.

29

Regarding the older woman/younger man l-dub. Screw your friends. This world is filled with assholes who want to tell you how to have sex. Just read the comments on Savage Love! If it works for the two of you... nothing else matters. Might be time to share less though. A lot of people can't handle someone doing something outside the norm. People tend to suck that way.

30

I'm trying to imagine how I'd react if my boyfriend told me he wanted to wear a collar and leash and sit at my feet as I watched tv while I held the leash in my hand, or wanted to sit on the floor by my bed while I read.

I might laugh, initially, too, not out of a desire to be cruel or to humiliate him, but at the unexpectedness of it and the alienness of it (to me) and the fact that it doesn't seem at all sexual in nature to me.

That's what I think is the issue: when we say "kink," we think of sex. And clearly, for the lw, there is a sexual component of sorts to what he wants. But he doesn't describe any behavior that seems sexual to me.
Here's the entire letter for reference: ("I'm a 28-year-old straight guy with one kink: I want to be collared and on a leash. That's it. In private. Basically, I just want to curl up at my girlfriend's feet with the leash in her hand. Just me on the floor next to the couch while she watches television, or me on the floor next to the bed while she reads. I've had three serious girlfriends, and all three laughed in my face when I told them about this. I'm dating a girl now that I like a lot, and she actually asked me if I had any kinks, and I couldn't bring myself to tell her. I'm worried about her laughing in my face, too.")

The lw doesn't mention whether he'd be clothed or not or if he'd expect to be hard by doing this or not; he doesn't mention having sex while in his dog persona (animal-ona?); he doesn't suggest that his girlfriend would get anything sexual out of it.

On one hand, it is a very easy fantasy to fulfill, one that takes almost nothing from any girlfriend. But on the other hand, I suspect that this fantasy would either escalate until he wants to have sex as a dog (which some people might be able to indulge more easily than others) or that there's something deeper going on. Because as described, it's a pretty unexciting fantasy, which seems to be about comfort.

So I would probably have a lot of questions about it: what exactly, does the lw think will happen? Will he be content to limit this to sitting-on-the-floor-while-gf-reads/watches-tv? Does he want to do this EVERY time his gf watches tv or reads in bed? Does he want to be in dog-mode most of the time while at home, or only occasionally? Is this sexual for him and if so, how so? Does he want it to be sexual somehow for the gf, too?

Here's the thing: if you've got a fairly unusual kink/fetish/fantasy/request/ask, you need to expect that people will react by laughing or recoiling or looking puzzled when you bring it up. Many of us have heard of foot fetishists, or people who like bondage or being flogged (or flogging), but when I ask a guy I've recently begun dating if he has any kinks, I'm not expecting to hear "I just want to curl up at your feet with the leash in your hand. Just me on the floor next to the couch while you watch television, or me on the floor next to the bed while you read."
You can and should say, "I know this might sound funny or ridiculous to you, but would you be willing to give it a try?" And you should be prepared to answer a lot of questions.

31

Gold star, NoCute @30!

32

Here's a question about the woman with the younger lover. Does he look VERY young? Some people in their early 20s look like they are still kids. It could be that just the visual bothers your friends on some gut level. This is not to excuse their behavior- we are not slaves to our lizard brains and our first impressions. But it might help everyone if they'd acknowledge this so they could move past feeling it's "deeply creepy" which is a very not sex positive and not open minded and not supportive friend thing to say.

By the way, I suggest evaluating your boundaries in the first place. I have a couple friend who are my very close intimates who I trust to deliver unwanted or unrequested advice and feedback. If they told me they thought something was deeply creepy about someone in my life, I'd hear them out and have a conversation about it.

But basically everyone else needs to shut the fuck up and keep their opinions and advice to themselves. It's not acceptable to act like my personal life is deeply creepy. You might need to talk to them about how they are over-stepping and also what their expectations are and what yours are.

I'd suggest maybe a combo of honest chat about the situation, enforcement of boundaries, and then (because you don't want to lose your friend circle over a temp hot lover) perhaps a reduction in the time you bring the young man around them.

33

@23. Bi. His 'straight-up bravery' implying an erection. Maybe the words 'straight-up' and 'brave' do not describe a hard-on in some lexicons. Of course the guy is not actually brave in e.g. dating an older woman, dating a woman, dating a woman with disapproving friends, in continuing to date in politically perilous times etc. Actually, I'd think that the fraught quality of the times socially and politically would induce people to have more sex!

34

"@BiDanFan and Harriet: "His energy, enthusiasm, and straight-up bravery in the face of the current horrors of the world are giving me a renewed sense of purpose."

Translation: "he's not bitter and cynical and feeling dejected and defeated by the awful shit going down around the world." That's it; nothing to do with erections.

I find it interesting where the lines get drawn in all sorts of situations. It's still okay to denigrate the fat, for example. And a 20-ish-year age difference is always going to seem "creepy" to some people. I'm not even sure if this is gendered, though. Certainly, there's the historically-laughable spectacle of the older woman thinking that the young man finds her attractive and sexy, when what he's really after is her money. But people react the same way in a younger woman/older man relationship, or a younger man/older man relationship. There always seems to be the presumption that both parties are using the other. In which case I say, "good for them! Everyone's getting something out of this! Everyone is having fun!" It's weird how judgmental people get about relationships that seem to go against a very narrow sense of rules and limits.

The lw should just ignore her friends and continue to enjoy the fling with the young man while it lasts. Which may be for one more day, thirty more years, or somewhere in between.

35

Never heard of "bravery" implying an erection, Harriet @33. I think we've learned something about -your- subconscious, but not the letter writer's. Besides, there's no need to look for clues to her motives -- she straight-up says "the sex is phenomenal."

36

For ISUCK-- Let's begin by clearing up some misconceptions.

Alcohol doesn't make you do things you didn't want to do. Alcohol lowers inhibitions. It allows you to do things you want to do but usually keep yourself from doing because you know better.

You know your ex-girlfriend better than I do, but I'd guess you didn't mess her up that badly with one drunken kiss. There's a bit of hubris going on if you think your kisses are that all-powerful.

You also seem to have an idea that first love is one true love. Sometimes it is. More often, it's not. If you drifted apart originally, there likely wasn't too much keeping you together over the long haul anyway.

Then this bit about long term relationships not being sexually active. New relationships often start out with a lot of sex, and it's not unusual for the extremely high levels to die down a little, but many long term relationships are bolstered by frequent good sex. It can be that that makes them long term.

You also seem to be suffering under the misapprehension that feeling bad enough about something is penance enough And that you want to stay in a relationship that's not right for you sexually. Are you sure you want that, or do you think that staying in a bad relationship is fit punishment for being unfaithful (in your own eyes).

You don't come out and spell Christianity, but there seems to be an underpinning of Evangelical guilt going on in everything you say. The idea that you're supposed to stay in sexually unhappy relationships, the idea that kissing is as bad (and it's always bad) as fucking, the fetish-like reverence for sinning, repenting, and being forgiven for sin. (In some brands of Christianity, the people who repeat the sin-repent-be forgiven cycle are far more revered than the boring people who stay out of trouble in the first place. That's why they keep going for bigger and bigger sins. They need really catchy ones to stay on top.)

You can talk to your girlfriend as Dan suggests, but there's another idea too. Break up with her without having the whole unhappy sexlife conversation. Tell her it's you, not her. Tell her you're not feeling it anymore. Tell you're too young to settle down. (Doesn't matter how old you are.) Break her heart. Now go do it.

37

Your friends are jealous LW 3, or sexist. Do they look twice if an older gay man is with a younger one. Or an older straight man with a younger woman. Tell them re this sutuation that their opinions are not welcome.
Good on you and him. Enjoy.

38

Well done Hong Kong. Talking about bravery.

42

I'm going to agree with Mizz Liz again, and recall how difficult it was to convince my best friend some twenty-odd years ago that she had reached a level of stalking and persistence in the face of denials worthy of Mr Collins. I had to read the entire proposal chapter to her with full emphasis on all the ways Mr Collins took Elizabeth's increasingly passionate refusals as flattering encouragement. If (and it is a big if) LW's friends are sufficiently discerning, they should be heard out. Are they generally reliable and wise counselors? Is this perhaps an area where they have blinds spots? The letter looks all right, but my best friend's description of her situation sounded just as benign.

Appearance might have something to do with people's responses. I had rather good luck in that respect with my PLB, as he looked mature for his age and some people at the time took me for ten or fifteen years younger than I was.

43

@25 DonnyKlicious: I will say that at least in our case, nobody called the fire department.

44

Moving RIGHT along--how about that upcoming Lucky @69 Award, folks?

45

@40 Hunter78
You are..

46

Dadddy @ 41
“physical ticks, tourettes outbursts, and dwarves with disproportionately large asses” are all visible right when you see them. You recognize it instantly and react accordingly.
When someone confesses to a kink it often comes out of context, how you already knew that person for some time.
It also happens for those appearing as the other gender or somewhere in between. The age of that person may also play a role in the initial reaction.

47

@45 curious2: Bullseye!

48

@Dadddy: I didn't mean that LEASH's kink is funny, but that when something unexpected comes our way, we sometimes react by laughing nervously.

Yes, of course, we should all learn to suppress our laughter, and no doubt the lw's 3 girlfriends were tactless. But most of us aren't expecting our boyfriend to say he wants to be on a leash on the floor while we watch tv, and provided that the laughter was more nervous than mean-spirited, I think it's not necessarily such a problem, nor does it have to meant the end of the conversation.

If someone I was dating said to me that what he really wanted more than anything was to wear a collar and leash and sit on the floor at my feet while I held the leash in my hand, I would be taken aback. I would hope that I wouldn't say anything cruel, and I wouldn't be deliberately cruel, but I might not have an initial reaction that LEASH would love. If he kept telling me why this was so important, what he wanted to get out of it, and if he answered my questions, I'm pretty sure I could indulge this interest. But you've got to understand that when your interests fall so out of the norm, people are going to have reactions to first hearing them.

49

One positive thing about LEASH is that his new gf ASKED him about potential kinks. So, he's not starting from absolute zero. They have the foundation for a discussion as they exchange what they might consider to be mutually GGG behaviour.

There are a couple of ways to test the waters without disclosing upfront. Find out if she likes to cuddle and stroke your body, LEASH. If she doesn't even like that when you're playing fully human, you can guess she won't go for it when you're playing Rex. But, if she does like to caress you, then it's not an insurmountable leap to introduce the idea. If you have dissimilar tastes in TV shows, you can propose one way she can enjoy her shows in peace (with no arguing about who controls the remote), while you are in her hands, asking for nothing more than a skritch behind the ears. There are a variety of ways to introduce this. Just be honest about how often you'd like to do it and for how long (one hopes not every time!).

As for the strangeness of being introduced to a kink, I still remember when someone dear to me mentioned XYZ activity and wondered whether.... I had never considered anything like that, but I simply didn't react at all. He never mentioned it again. It was only a couple of years later with my next lover that I felt like kicking myself, because now this was something I really liked to do and would have treasured the opportunity to have done it with him!

50

LEASH, your partners are not expecting you to be submissive, as they are operating from a perspective that you will want to dominate them. For some of your potential partners, that alone will make satisfying your kinks a bridge too far. In addition, they are probably unfamiliar with your collar-and-leash fantasies, which makes all this foreign. That said, D/s doesn’t have to be humorless, so even if their reaction is laughter, so what, kink doesn’t always have to be so serious.

TOWNY, you and your partner are both adults, so you can do what you want, and your friends should but out, however, you really shouldn’t be so shocked by this reaction. A twenty year age gap when the younger partner is 24 is quite big, and draws negative reactions independent of genders and other factors.

51

So all these movie stars, men, who marry much younger women, and have babies with them.. the negative reactions didn’t stop them. Michael Douglas. Richard Gere, come to mind.
If it’s an older man, and a younger woman, are there negative reactions. We read letters from older gay men who have no problem with much younger men fancying them.

52

Hunter @40: Fichu's excellent advice was posted on the wrong column:
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/09/03/41281062/he-kissed-a-girl-and-he-liked-it-but-his-girlfriend-probably-wouldnt
But I like Curious @45's answer too, haha.

Helenka @49: Yes. If someone is asking about kinks, they should be prepared for any answer they might get. I like NoCute's idea of prefacing his answer by saying "I know this might sound funny or ridiculous to you, but would you be willing to give it a try?" Then she'll be prepared to hear something she might not be expecting. (I'm put in mind of the letter a while back from the girlfriend who asked her boyfriend what his fantasy was, probably presuming something like "a candlelight bath full of rose petals," and couldn't deal with his kinky reply.)

Sublime @50: "LEASH, your partners are not expecting you to be submissive, as they are operating from a perspective that you will want to dominate them." Please show your workings. Not everyone assumes that male automatically means dominant. Good point though that he may have better luck viewing his kink as a playful thing, so if he is met with nervous laughter, he can laugh too and say "Yeah, I know it sounds a bit silly, but it makes me feel comforted and cared for. And hey, could be worse! Aren't you glad I don't have a blueberry fetish?"

Lava @51, I agree, this is sexist. A gap this big between any genders would raise some eyebrows, but this isn't like our recent snooping gay man who started dating his boyfriend when they were 40 and 18. Twenty-four is an adult, not a vulnerable kid. These friends may be contemptuous because they think the relationship won't last, and it probably won't, but so what? I'm with Sandwiches @24 -- take it as a fling and enjoy it while it lasts.

53

Do not put your embarrassing kink in a text message. The likelihood that it will be shown to people you later have to socialize with is very high.

54

@34, 35. It was a joke, nocute! Her 'subconscious' called him 'straight-up' ... was the joke--like a lover praising a man who exemplifies moral probity for her for being 'erect'. Bi, it's beyond the bounds of possibility that the word 'straight-up' suggests a hard-on to you? Maybe we've just learned something about who you think might be making a joke.

Yes--the shaming of older women for having sex with younger men is a bad thing. Their casual, aversive typecasting--as 'cougars' etc.--is bad. Women in that situation are more visible than they'd otherwise be because het guys are more reluctant to date someone older, as a group, than het women--which is regrettable, and regrettably self-limiting for them, in that they're passing up on manifold opportunities for sex, fun, companionship, nurturance, learning, love. It is the case that young people are generally seen as less bogged down in cynicism, less deflated and paralysed by baleful developments in politics and culture, than those twenty years their senior. That the lw described this as a personal characteristic of her lover, and not a typical characteristic of the young, fed into my sense that she was (pleasantly, happily) starry-eyed about him and, in describing her relationship, was sublimating the pleasure she was getting from sex.

55

@41. Dadddy. This is not a case of someone 'laughing at' another's kink. It's only a matter of someone who doesn't have the kink, doesn't understand it from inside, saying--pointing out--that the kinkster hasn't learnt how to introduce it to a partner as meaningfully sexual. If the guy said, 'well, this may not sound much to you, it may sound odd or not even that sexual, but I can assure that it means a whole lot and is intensely sexual to me ... well, I want to sit at your feet and wear a collar while you watch tv' ... if he said that, he might elicit puzzlement, but he would have preempted any decent person's laughter. This is all that's being said.

Your taking issue is nocute is a case of fake disagreement--and fake disagreement, I've decided, whoever's proposing it, is one of the most wearisome things on the planet.

56

@46. CMD. The reaction I inwardly deplore is 'OK, I see you're a bit out of the ordinary, and I'm going to have nothing to do with you. Someone else's problem'. I can only imagine how someone like a doctor deals with that.

57

Harriet @54, ah, just your inner Beavis and Butt-head coming out. Huh-huh, huh-huh, she said "straight up." (You haven't clarified how "brave" is a double entendre.) No, I didn't expect such a juvenile joke from you, so I guess I have learned something. And I don't see how she's "sublimating" the sexual aspect when she describes it in her next breath as phenomenal. She's stating that it's about his personal characteristics AND the sex, probably because the criticism she's receiving centres around an assumption that it's ONLY about the sex. She likes him as a person, too, she reassures us. Yet, first you "joke" that her description of his worldview is a Freudian mask for her true feelings of liking his cock only (@22), then contradict yourself @54 by stating your sense is that she's downplaying the sex? I continue to be perplexed by you.

58

@52/BiDanFan: “Please show your workings.”

I wouldn’t have thought I had made a particularly controversial statement. After being active in the kink scene in the US and Europe, as well as looking at the responses to the questions thousands of women have answered on OkC, it is clear that the number of dominant women is vastly lower than than the numbers of submissive women. And that there are vastly fewer DW/sm couples, than DM/sw couples. Certainly, it shouldn’t surprise anyone who contemplated how pro dommes stay in business. Naturally, I have met many dominant women and their submissive male partners, so it’s not as if I think they are mythical creatures, but given my observations, I’m comfortable saying that LEASH’s partners were not expecting to here their boyfriend was submissive when they inquired about his kinks.

59

Sublime @58: "After being active in the kink scene in the US and Europe"
The women LEASH has dated, to our knowledge, are not active in the kink scene in the US and Europe and therefore cannot be assumed to view the world the way you do. We know Girlfriend #4 asked about his kinks, but we don't know whether Girlfriends 1 through 3 did. For all we know, they made the reasonable (to a vanilla person) assumption that LEASH is vanilla. Personally, I have never got sexually involved with a man expecting that he would want to dominate me, and I don't think you can conclude that these (probably) twentysomething women LEASH is dating would assume that, either. The one who asked about his kinks, perhaps -- though she may or may not have jumped to such sexist conclusions, based on her own experiences and interest.
I agree that the partners were probably not expecting LEASH to say he is submissive, but I don't think you can jump from that to their expecting him to be dominant.

60

There's no indication that he is dating in kink scenes. In fact, the opposite. He says that this current girl "actually asked about" his kinks, which implies the others didn't and that he was surprised she did. So we aren't talking about kink scene dating here- he just told some of his ex girlfriends that he had a kink and they laughed about it. I don't know that people would expect a male lover they meet out in the kink world to dominate them- you guys who frequent those scenes will have to comment on that. But in the nonkink scene world, I think it's probably true- among the young or inexperienced - that men are expected to be more active generally but absolute bullshit that women expect their new lovers to dominate them.

Now to assume that they were expecting him to be dominant, you'd have to make a bunch of leaps. You'd have to either assume they were not already having sex which would be weird IMO. He is not saying he refrains from sex with these women until he tells them about his kink and then they are surprised because he's a man and they expect all men to be dominant. So I guess you are assuming that they already have sex in which he dominates them and so they are surprised to find out he wants to be submissive? Or are you saying that they have vanilla sex where he does not dominate them but they just assume that if he had a kink, that would be it, so they are surprised when it turns out it's not? I mean, it's a lot of round about thinking.

Possibly I guess but since it's happened repeatedly, I'd say it's much more likely they (young vanilla women) just think it's funny that a man wants to pretend to be a dog.

61

LEASH -- this is an amazingly vague request. All you want is to be leashed and put at the end of the bed like a real dog? For how long? To sleep there all night? Will you require a dog bowl and this becomes a permanent thing? I mean, leashing you and pulling you around the apartment a couple of times a week is one thing. Going permanent is a pretty big ask.

Momma bear: I'm a gay man of a certain age, and seem to attract a lot of "bois". I assume they're flakey, prone to erratic behavior, and only worth the effort if the sex is great. I also follow Dan's sage advice and leave them in a better place than I found them. Enjoy the ride, ignore the haters, don't get his name tattooed over your heart...

63

tim browne
I was under the impression that "bois" reserved to young trans men, or so it was awhile ago.

64

@62: Dadddy, I try to be as kind as possible in all aspects of my life. I would also hope that everyone turn down requests not to their liking kindly, but I know that's not always the case.

@everyone, but especially tim browne: I was thinking that the extent to which LEASH wants to be a dog should determine the approach he takes towards revealing that desire. It sounds as though there are only some very specific and limited ways in which he wants to be treated as a dog. If this is the case, I recommend waiting to bring this up until they've been dating a while, long enough for each of them to get a sense of the essential saneness and ability to be flexible of the other. Then, I'd introduce the topic by acknowledging it might sound silly to the partner; I'd give them room to laugh and to ask questions; I'd make it clear that this is only an occasional thing.

However, if LEASH or someone else wants to be treated as a dog more frequently and in other ways (eating out of a dog bowl on the floor, etc), if this is a more extreme dog-identity or if the person wants to have sex as a dog or always in dog-mode, maybe approach dating by going on a site like Fetlife and looking for people who are at least familiar with the concept of lifestyle kinks.

I, for example, could probably indulge a partner's sitting on the floor while I watch tv holding his leash in my hand, if this happened once in a while--say, during a weekly tv show. But I would not be interested in having a relationship with someone who wanted to act and be treated as a dog most of the time, and most definitely not during sex. If LEASH keeps freaking girlfriends out, he may want to look for dates exclusively in the kink community.

65

@63 I didn't really know that, I use "boi" to make it clear that I'm not talking about ACTUAL boys. I currently have a FWB who's 37 and likes to play daddy / son. LOL
Back to the dog issue. I'm GGG, but there's got to be something in it for me too. Other than the joy of humiliating someone, what would the girlfriend get out of this? Seems really tedious and boring.
I've been known to pee on guys that want it, it's whatever. The daddy / son thing results in sex so the link is pretty clear. Some of the other kinks are just completely one sided...

66

So do you have to do flea baths and take a plastic baggie when you go for walks with this guy? Glad I’m not the neighbor with the inviting lawn...

67

nocutename @64, good advice, except the trouble is that people who believe they just want a mild version of a kink don't really know where they will end up once they start getting that mild version.

Given that he's not sure, I think it does make sense to follow your advice and see how that goes.

My rubric is: if you have a kink that you'll want indulged every time the two of you have sex, bring it up before sex. If you'll only want to be indulged occasionally, bring it up before you say 'I love you."

And again -- remember to give equal attention to your new partner's preferences (whether they rise to the level of kink or not).

68

nocutename @64 and others: the LW said nothing wanting to be treated as a dog. He wants to be collared and on a leash. These are different things.

69

@68 - Thank you! I was wondering where all the doggie talk was coming from...

70

@68: Whoops! So sorry--I guess I'm making assumptions. It was the leash plus the desire to be curled up at his girlfriend's feet as she sits on the couch watching tv that did it.
Regardless, I would still recommend he approach this desire the same way I suggested @30.

71

Is it wrong that I read LEASH's letter and thought. "Oh, cool. Who doesn't want a soft, warm footrest?"

72

A kink like this, surely needs to be shared upfront and not hidden away and suddenly brought up once some attachment has developed.
Find your kink community LEASH, because by writing to Dan you are showing how important this is to you.

73

@69 sanguisuga: WA-HOOOO!!!! Congratulations on scoring this week's Lucky @69 Award! Bask in the glory and savor the decadent riches. :)

74

@30 nocutename: For the WIN regarding LEASH! I second biDanFan's Gold Star. Bravo, and well done. :)

75

@72 LavaGirl: I hope my comment @10 didn't piss you off. I thought at the time it was spot on, and couldn't help myself. Kudos! :)

76

@71: I was literally wondering if there was any overlap between being a leashed dog during TV time and being human (uh, inhuman?) furniture, lol.

I'm a little confused about why being laughed at is such a dreadful idea, ESPECIALLY when a kink like yours requires more playfulness and whimsy, LW. I think the idea is not to approach it like it's this super-detrimental thing. You could DEFINITELY get laughed at, that IS a reality...but like Dan and everyone else said, it's an involuntary reaction when you surprise someone with something, it doesn't necessarily mean that they think you're...insert unpleasant adjective here. Just be a little more relaxed about it, DEFINITELY be honest, ask her about hers and show her equal respect...and don't push it or force it. Make it this fun, silly thing that you two can do behind closed doors. It really doesn't sound like such a troubling kink to oblige!

77

One more thought, LW: maybe sex-positive Youtuber Pup Amp and his daddy can help you introduce the subject with their channel Watt's the Safeword? They DEFINITELY have some vids on that. Maybe watching it alone will help you figure out how far you want to take things, and then watching it together might help guide her through it? Visual aids usually help!

78

How could I be cross with you Grizelda..
‘ 🎼 I put a leash on you, because you’re mine...’

79

Thank you, EmmaLiz @60. To rephrase my clunkier comment, sure, statistically there are more dominant men than submissive ones, but statistically there are far more vanilla women than kinky ones, and vanilla women won't be expecting men to want to dominate them -- they'll be expecting men to want vanilla sex with them.

CMD @63, I have heard "boi" to describe young cis men too. "Goth boi" is a common phrasing, and as Tim says, it's spelled differently from boy to make clear we mean young men, not minors.

NoCute @64 et al: The letter reads as if LEASH has never met anyone who has indulged this kink of his, so I don't think even he can know whether it will escalate. His "That's it" implies that he believes it won't, but I've experienced being the first person to indulge a kink and watching the floodgates open and the demands increase as the sub experiences joy at having found a willing partner. He may love being leashed so much he asks to drink out of a bowl next, or -- more likely -- he will want to be leashed at all times, never giving his partner the pleasure of cuddling with her on the couch like a human. LEASH, don't forget her vanilla needs.

Tim @65, good point. What's in it for her to have her boyfriend on the floor instead of on the couch/in bed with her? Many subs show their devotion by cleaning their mistresses' houses. This may not be LEASH's kink but it would probably make his partners more amenable.

Donny @66, there's a time for humour. Your comment is mocking this poor guy who wrote in because his exes reacted much in the way you did. Bad doggy, no biscuit.

80

Mx Wanna - Gays have been using "boi" for well over twenty years. Of course, as I am no longer socially active, the word may have been appropriated by now. Or it's possible that we are witnessing a gay version of the Oxford Zed (what a shame Inspector Morse didn't refer often to his old cases the way Rumpole did; how nice it would be if the prequel series Endeavour, which seems to have surprising legs, could show the equivalent of the Penge Bungalow Murders. Poor Sir John was anachronistic when he wrote it, going so far as to make Hilda's father a QC when his never becoming so was always one of her main grievances. Even so, I still wish we'd gotten a revisit of the Brighton Benefit Club Forgery, which provided Rumpole with his vast - though, sadly, eventually outdated - knowledge of typewriters).

It is possible that "bois" is generally used by the T and "boiz" by the G. I think Mr Browne's idea to delineate between the genuine article and mutton-dressed-as-lamb seems sound.

81

Ms Lava/Ms Fan - I've heard 35-year-olds called Chicken Hawks for pursuing 24-year-olds. Back in the bad old days, when 25/21 meant jail as surely as 25/17, there was less care on our side of the SS-OS Divide. As things gradually became increasingly legal, those of us whose natural inclinations lay with being part of the Respectability Police got particularly snippy about age gaps that even fit into that (more OS-applicable) formula. Even now, I think there's still some shuffling back and forth that obscures whether critics dislike SS or big age gaps.

82

Tim Browne, BDF, Venn- I First heard “bois” applied to young trans men hence my association,which apparently seems to be a more general term. I stand corrected.

As for Kink growth/development, I think some have put too much into this though there’s certainly the phenomenon of a mild kink developing over time as Erica P has already mentioned in multiple posts on this thread and beyond.
I defined it as “growth” as this could also lead to positive mutual development and exploration for all involved.

83

BiDanFan @79: It doesn't sound like LEASH is into or gravitating toward puppy play, so it's unlikely that he will be asking to drink out of a bowl next. Wanting to be collared, and to sit at the feet of his girlfriend, sounds like submission; wanting to be "owned". The women I know who enjoy wearing a collar also love cuddles.

If LEASH is submissive, he should be up-front about it - open with "I'm submissive" and the feels that go with that, rather than unleashing the collar conversation. Better yet, join Fetlife, chat with other subs, and learn to be more comfortable about this rather common, harmless, and IMO sweet kink.

84

@pollyc

Good point re the laughter. I guess it depends on whether or not the women just giggled (nervousness, surprise, humor, playfulness) or if they laughed AT him (shaming, ridicule). Since it's happened repeatedly, my guess is Dan (and you and others) are correct and it's just an involuntary - perhaps not skillful- response that the LW is not handling well. And if it is just a matter of innocent laughter (surprise, playfulness), then the LW ought to consider if he's generally thin-skinned or if this is just a particularly sensitive area. It's my experience that when people have what they think of as deep secrets or when they feel very strongly about something (shame included or not) that they know others will not take so seriously, then it heightens all the emotions around the conversation and makes them particular sensitive to responses. The hard part is that the other person may not know this- we can't feel what others feel!

But if it's the other- if all these women have laughed AT him in a ridiculing or shaming way, then I'm going to give the same advice I gave to the LW last week who found that all five of her lovers had been selfish- perhaps he needs to reflect on what he's doing as he is the common denominator. Is he filtering for the sort of woman that responds with humiliation? I think that is a defense mechanism for some people- they feel the need to ridicule others to stay in control of situation or feel better about themselves. It's possible if there's an aspect of his kink that includes humiliation or submission and he's not figured out how to indulge it yet, he could be filtering for women who are overbearing in this way. Or is he exclusively dating vanilla, inexperienced women who might be easily shocked? Or is it the context in which he brought it up (as Erica and CMD say above and I agreed with)- like if it came out suddenly. None of this excuses their response, but it might help the LW navigate such situations in the future since he can't control others but can control his own words and dating preferences. In any case, it's a good sign I think that his current girlfriend is the sort of woman who asks about his kinks and it's also a good sign that he's reflecting on these things and considering his approach- seems like he's got a good opportunity before him to explore all of this.

87

@78 LavaGirl: You deserve a recording contract! Keep on rocking the house. :)

Who's up for that Hunsky? Tick...tick...tick...

88

Glad I'm not the only one who doesn't associate leashes with puppy play - I was surprised that that's where most people went with it. It's just a subby type comfort trust thing from how he described it, doesn't seem like it even bleeds over into sex and I don't see how it would automatically escalate, not everything does. This is exactly the kind of super easy low bar entry level kink anyone would be glad to hear from a partner (unless they were looking for a pure Dom), the gf asked the question either bc she has her own kinks or because she wants to get into his, either way who wouldn't be delighted to be told this in response? This one is easy! It's sweet! It's trusting and kind! Sure, it could easily be expanded on and I guess get into more challenging territory but it's a very easy ask of someone, the guy has been dating inexperienced or ignorant young women, or just women who were a bad fit. I don't know anyone who would react badly to this request, you might get a giggle at first because it's so extremely sweet and easy - what you usually brace yourself for when you ask that question is something expensive, difficult, illegal, risky, upsetting or gross and this is none of those things. The LW needs to listen to that episode of Savage Love w the pie throwing couple.

89

Fubar @83: For the record, it was our resident submission expert, EricaP @6, who first extrapolated LEASH's kink into other forms of dog play which he may or may not be into. I stated that, once given an opportunity, his kink MAY expand into other areas, but it may not. I agree with you that wanting to be owned and wanting to be a dog are two different things. Also, good punning.

Hunter @85: No, but you do keep a sub on a leash indoors. If the sub has asked nicely.

90

LEASH - this is how someone who cares about you should react to a kink, and yours is so much easier on the furniture!

https://www.savagelovecast.com/episodes/49#.XXNuUFMpA0M

91

Heads up to penis havers living in Texas, it’s now against the Law to send unsolicited dick pics. Fine of $500.
no @88 &90; if LEASH wants someone to care about him authentically and enjoy his kink with him, rather than indulge it.. he needs to be upfront.
It’s not a competition, which kink might be harder to accomodate. You have a positive reaction to his kink, whereas I would pass. LEASH needs to find someone like you, open to playing with him and his kink.
Hiding it for how long and then springing it on a woman, her laugh might be more out of surprise than anything else. She might think he’s having her on.

92

I don’t think I’d laugh at LEASH. Rather I’d be pissed off he waited till I had developed feelings for him, to tell me. He says he only wants to sit at a woman’s feet, with a leash on. Once he achieves that, where else does he see his kink taking him and the woman. Any partner has to be up for the dynamic. Also, much of the wider world is not that up on kinks. So best he goes looking in kink communities. It’s really not that hard to suss an answer to this letter.

93

@91 LavaGirl: Now if we can do something to castrate the Biggest Dick illegally occupying the White House and catapult it and its lackeys permanently into outer space......

94

I am a woman who met a 46 year old man when I was 23. We got on so well that we started dating. We just has our 11th wedding anniversary. We've had the odd person look askance, but mostly people think it's cute that we liked eachother enough to bridge the age difference. It's very sexist the way people still accept the older guy younger girl thing so much easier than the other way round. Good luck!

95

"In other words, YVOIG, you don't have to feed your self-esteem into a shredder as you end this relationship."

perhaps truly the kindest DTMF words you've ever typed.

96

I'm happy to agree that the collar & leash may not lead to more, but in the context of a multi-year romantic relationship, I wouldn't bet on that.

I also think it's more likely to lead to pet play than to any other particular kink, but, sure, a couple of years in, maybe he wants his dick locked up and kept on a leash, or maybe he wants to lick her toes while he's down there, or many other possibilities.

The point is that people with strong kinks should mention it early; present it as a good thing; look for compatible or very open-minded partners; and be GGG about a partner's preferences.

They should not minimize their kink as no big deal amd expect partners to fall in line.

97

BiDanFan @89: I wasn't trying to single you out, and don't disagree with either you or EricaP on the substance of your advice... although when you suggested he not forget his partner's vanilla needs, I wondered if it might be very difficult for someone who doesn't actually enjoy receiving submission to be in something long-term with LEASH.

98

Lava @ 92
When is a good point to introduce a kink and how does kink differ from other hard-wired/environmental preference?

We recently had a commenter telling us that on their first date the other person indicated their desire to be pegged. The vast majority of this forum, myself included, agreed that this was done way too early.
Kink/preference is something you should be able to bring up once there is intimacy and trust, part of an ongoing accommodation and exploration.
Kinks/preferences should not necessarily be viewed as extra curricular. They are part of the person you are having a relationship with.
Yes, they may differ, they may develop, or not. Same goes to the relative ease of accommodation. Or not.

As I see it LEASH’s kink, as it is now, is fairly mild, one that may even baffle the kink community. “What’s the big deal, why are you here anyway?”
Yes, it’s possible that it will develope. It’s also possible that the other person he’s dating will grow to his kink as well. A loving, understanding partner may also see some opportunities for herself in the process. “While you’re at it, why don’t you leave my feet alone? I have something much better for you to lick…”

Twisting the subject further more to illustrate my point… Awhile ago we had a letter from a man whose girlfriend, despite enjoying him going down on her, wouldn’t reciprocate. When confronted on the issue she burst in tears and told him about an abusive family member, and how she can’t get over it.
She did not bring it up ahead of time, and her partner didn’t dump her on the spot. He came across as a sincere loving, committed, invested partner who was looking for help for all involved.

Kink havers often have lots of shame and guilt around their preferences as well. Most don't "choose" it, and some develope it as a trauma of some sort. Or not.
Is it too much to ask loving partners for accommodation, or should they just bring it up on the first date and expect the very likely imminent rejection?

99

CMDwannabe @98 - if a person would like a kink to be a big part of their sex life, they should bring it up before sex. And hey, why not bring it up before the first date, to avoid wasting each other's time if the other person isn't up for it?

If the kink is just spice for an otherwise vanilla sex life, then it can wait longer.

The problem comes when people don't have the self-awareness to know the difference. They're in denial about how important their kink is to them, and so they wait years to roll it out, until they can't take it anymore.

But now it's very hard for the other person to leave. That leads to a lot of anger and feelings of betrayal in the person who just learned their spouse has this major kink.

100

EP- I agree with your overall observations re being accountable and communicative in a timely manner. Yet as I see it the case in hand isn’t that clear cut. LEASH has an idea where he stands/curls on this, yet never had a real experience in this regard. Where does one start as a total novice? Is doing so with a proved trusted, loving partner such a bad idea? Does he have no option but go to the alt spaces even if this is not the sum up of his life?

Some kinks aren’t necessarily there to take over someone’s life as you imply. Lots of kinksters appreciate acceptance and can successfully negotiate a deal beneficial to all.

101

Like what sort of deal CMD? I get paid each time he puts on a LEASH, or he cooks me dinner.
A sexual intimacy is about feelings and attraction. It’s not about negotiating that I accept a kink because it might be easy to do so. Even if it’s only sitting at my feet while I sit on the lounge.. my answer would still be no. Not interested.
The anal guy from before. Is that a kink or a sexual demand? Either way I’d prefer to know up front also. Because it is dealbreaker for him.
Can’t see what the problem is, put your cards on the table early in the connection. Agree with Erica, speak of it before sex occurs. Before strong feelings develop. Before some guy wastes his own and my time.

102

A dealbreaker for me is a man who doesn’t love licking pussy, and one with hair around it. No point in not disclosing any of that because soon enough the truth will out.
Why hide these things. And why not look for others who clearly state up front they love the idea of a man on a leash sitting at their feet. People in kink communities.

103

@100 WA-HOOOO!!!!! Major congrats to CMDwannabe for scoring this week's Big Hunsky! Savor the decadent riches and bask in the glorious afterglow. :)

I know that this is a local / regional subject, in regards to the weather, but---WOW!! There's nothing quite like watching movies during an actual thunderstorm outside, just as Bishop Bickering gets zapped on the golf course in Caddyshack (1980). Flickering lights added to our household drama.

104

A book you might find interesting Dan and others, written by an Australian neuropsychologist, a woman.
‘ Sex In The Brain
How your brain controls your sex life.’
by Amee Baird.
CMD, this man has been asked by his gf if he has a kink and his fear of being laughed at stopped him from sharing. If he knows women in the past reacted that way, why didn’t he change his style, to avoid being laughed at anymore, and seek out partners in the kink community? His behaviour doesn’t make sense to me. Unless he thinks his kink is a harmless activity.
‘Oh I just want to sit here with my collar and leash on.. while you watch TV. You don’t have to do anything except hold the leash.’ Except, this behaviour is about submission and whatever other links this man has. And like Erica, I don’t think this would be the extent of his kink.
Kinks are called kinks for a reason. Kinksters can’t expect non kinksters to pretend a kink isn’t a kink.

105

Lava @91: Great news about the fine for unsolicited dick pics! Men have to be told, it seems, what an unpleasant experience this is for the unwilling recipient.

Fubar @97: It depends on whether LEASH, or any other kinkster, can keep a balance between their own needs and their partner's needs. I'm recalling the letter from the wife of the adult baby who indulged his kink, only to have him give her the ultimatum of no sex whatsoever unless he was in diapers, which didn't turn her on at all. I think LEASH and a non-dominant woman could enjoy a long-term relationship if, say, one or two evenings per week he was at her feet, and the rest of the time at her side.

CMD @98: It's a tricky balance. For me it would depend on whether something is a kink or a fetish -- something they enjoy versus something they can't live without. If someone has a kink they'd enjoy having indulged sometimes but could live without, that can wait until perhaps they've had sex a few times and both have the sense that they'd like the relationship to go further. I.e, at some point before the 90-day money-back-guarantee period ends. If it's a fetish, possibly the best thing to do would be to skip traditional dating methods entirely and only seek people on Fetlife or munches, or list the fetish in their other online profiles. Because indeed it seems tacky to bring up pegging on the first date (assuming they have met via non-kinky channels).

Lava @101, I doubt many people would want to literally be sex workers for their partners. Dinner, now there is a thought. Or he goes down on her while he's down there on the floor. I suggested cleaning upthread -- what would be more appealing to most women, coming home to find their boyfriend wearing nothing but his jockeys and a collar, smiling hopefully, or coming home to find a sparkling clean bathroom and their boyfriend in his jockeys and a collar? :) Sure, that might not be enough for someone to enjoy something that literally turns them off -- many women would lose their boners completely at the sight of their man on a leash. But for those who are neutral, sweetening the deal is a good strategy.

106

Money or a meal cooked, it’s all energy.
What he wears Fan, has nothing to do with the attitude he brings to his kink. That’s the puzzling part for me. And like someone said above, nocute maybe, this man presents nothing in his version pertaining to sex, so not sure how it’s seen as sex work.
.Putting him in sexy shorts doesn’t mean he’d be sexy. That’s you redefining another’s kink. As stated, it’s him passively sitting at a woman’s feet in a collar and leash. Pretty damn boring as is.

107

To me, I mean. Not in any objective sense because another woman might find it hot as, though obviously not the ones he’s had relationships with. Maybe he’ll bite the bullet and tell his current gf. Perhaps he could liven up the story a little before he does.

108

@57. Bi. Besides being perplexed, would you think you disagree in any way? My advice is that she try to face down her friends who are shaming or criticising her for being in a relationship with a younger guy. This would seem to me to be your view as well. There is no need to say anything more specific to her, in that the lw would seem to understand that her relationship will be time-limited (she is not asking, for instance, 'how do I hold onto a lover twenty years younger?' or 'how can I bring myself to believe his assurances that the relationship is serious?'). This would present a quite different case, in that we would have to speak to her self-doubts, not just aim to arm her with the self-confidence to call out her friends' potential ageism and misogyny.

@83. fubar. A bit like Bi, I can't think LEASH yet knows what he will like and want to do. If a vanilla gf agrees to what he asks, his kink may very well quickly escalate. This would be one reason for exploring it from the outset in an appropriate 'scene'.

As concerns his fearing being laughed at by his current gf, he can take steps to disarm that now. She's asking whether he has kinks. Instead of blurting out what he wants, he could take a softly-softly approach e.g. 'well [big smile], what sort of thing do you understand as kinky? Dressing up? Roleplay? Were you thinking of anything other than D/s?' Or he could go down the route of 'if there anything you wouldn't do?', of finding out aversions or stuff she'd be unable to accommodate. (Lots of this, say coprophila or vore, might also be stuff in which he had no interest at all). Without showing his hand, or exposing himself to rejection or ridicule, he could get a good read on what his gf is likely to indulge.