So glad I don't have kids.

I'm kinky from puberty and a parent, and I'm finding it hard to decide what to tell the first LW. On the one hand, teaching the kid about self-bondage safety is very important. Also, letting the kid know that there's nothing shameful about liking bondage is a good idea.

On the other hand, as a parent in that situation, you really don't want to get too involved in your kid's sexuality. And especially don't let them know that Dad has straitjackets (multiple!) in the locked closet.

It's a balancing act.

Vibrator: no. Handheld showerhead: yes.

Oh, and if anybody else has an electric toothbrush, be clear to the whole family that a person's electric toothbrush is a private item for only that person to use.

For bondage kid: yes, absolutely talk about safety and basic precautions. You'll also need to be sure to include safety and consent topics during conversations about partnered behavior as well. Discuss privacy, which is not the same thing as secrecy. (If you could see him through the window, who else could see him? From certain angles my neighbors can see into my home in a way that isn't at all obvious. I learned this when a neighbor invited me to an event in their home and I was surprised at what I could see when standing at their dining window.)
And no, it's unlikely that "this bondage stuff is related to these issues".

CUFFS, this is a safety issue and sounds to me like he loses those cuffs until he takes it seriously. You don’t have to say when you’ve seen him behave dangerously, since the talk, just that you have . He’s 12, you are the parent.
How much access does he have to porn on a computer? Do you over see his use. Or if not, then maybe a talk with him about what he watches. He’s 12, and you are the parent.
Computers turned up late in my kids lives and not having lots of money meant for yrs there was a public computer, and that’s it. Mobiles they got when they could afford it. Now, kids need basic mobiles, at least, for safety reasons.
Before you embarrass the poor kid by bringing in therapists, you need to talk to him straight. I’d be mindful of a kid that age watching much porn at all.
His sexual life is not your concern, his safety is. Talk to his safety and trust he’ll sort the rest himself.

I start to get palpitations thinking of adolescents, and rearing them. This is the time parents have to work hard to maintain authority and stay loving and connected.

@1 delta35: Congrats twice--for making first post again, and beating me to it. Savor the glory. :) "So glad I don't have kids".Ours might not be the same situation, but ditto. Too many people throughout my 20s and 30s (though luckily not my parents) kept pressuring me to have kids and thought I was nuts by firmly standing my ground. I really am a much better fit as an auntie. Plus, I have never been a fan of pregnancy, childbirth, labor, and delivery.

@3 Anklosaurus: Agreed and seconded.

It is my own personal experience and observation that the advice given by the grown up kinksters to the first letter can be beautifully applied to many other kinks/preferences/sexual orientation/s.

The bit of CUFFS's letter beginning "He is a smart kid, an athlete, and a fairly conscientious scholar" jumped out at me. She (it reads more like a concerned mother, though the gender of the parent isn't specified) describes her son's kink at length, then says he is smart and athletic -- as if kinks and being a failure at life are inextricably coupled. She may not have meant it like that but she may want to check her biases. This kid could grow up to be a CEO or a pro athlete or work for a charity and still be kinky, they are not mutually exclusive. So no, his interest in bondage does not mean you need to be concerned about his self-esteem.

Aside from that, as a non-parent I haven't much to add this week, just to echo @1, and wish both these parents and these kinky youngsters luck navigating this extremely challenging period of life.

I do have one suggestion, actually. Because this stuff is SO embarrassing, the parents involved might want to deputise someone else to have "the talks" with their children. This is where the "cool uncle/aunt" comes in.

The children are 12, Fan, not fifteen. If the parents are sensitive, then I don’t see they can’t talk with their children. Not at length, it’s about safety and twelve year olds are still children. The second question is beyond my experience, so I’d go with no. Parents don’t buy their kids sex toys.

Lava @12, wouldn't 12-year-olds be MORE embarrassed about this stuff, not less? Anyway, I said "might." Words like "might" mean that it's just a suggestion, to be considered, possibly a good idea, possibly a bad one, depending on the people involved. "If the parents are sensitive" is a big if. CUFFS seems biased against kinky people, for instance, so while I agree it's definitely the parents' job to talk about safety (and to educate themselves!), it strikes me that the future conversation about communities for kinksters might be better delivered by someone else.

CUFFS, no one can say from where people develop sexual kinks, and in most cases any answer would be really meaningless. Your son will grow into a well adjusted man even as he enjoys bondage. And spoiler alert, your son will probably discover additional kinks as he starts interacting with sex partners.

What you need to know is that kinks are common and the people who have them not always so apparent. I recently attended a bondage class with a friend new to public kink. What struck her was the ordinariness all of the couples. On the subway that evening, we saw a 30-something couple who had also attended. To anyone who may have take notice of them, they were a cute, professional couple on their way home, but otherwise unremarkable. That she is submissive and enjoys being tied up, wouldn’t have occurred to anyone.

That said, children make poor choices because they cannot judge risks well and they lack experience. So continue to discuss safety and consent with your son, set age appropriate limits, and enforce them.

"...by installing a pulsating shower head"

Only if the parents are fine with a billion-dollar water bill.

You left out one big important piece of advice that you often give to people experimenting with bondage--Don't use handcuffs. Use real bondage restraints that are much safer. Perhaps explain the safety concerns to this kid, give him a amazon card to buy safe bondage restraints, and then take away the handcuffs because he should not be using them.

I'd say the first LW should limit their talks with their kids to just what is strictly necessary for basic safety and consent. I was 12 when I got my first phone, which was 12 years ago (a flip phone -- I didn't get a smartphone until I was 20). This kid definitely has a phone, and it's probably a smartphone. He can discover his community on his own. While I'm sure it seems nice to "let him know he's not alone," I can just imagine how mortifying that conversation could be for the kid, and it's not really absolutely necessary. I'm not exactly representative, but it wouldn't be any easier for a "cool" aunt or uncle to have that talk if it were me. They're still family, it's still weird. Maybe a figurative aunt or uncle like a close family friend.

As for the second LW, I really don't know. I can't even fathom asking for a sex toy from my parents at any age. Jesus. It's such a foreign idea to me. It's great that the LW's kid feels comfortable asking like that, but it also weirds me out a little on a personal level because... I don't know, just because. The Amazon gift card idea is good. At least there's a little bit of a boundary preserved there.

...

Oy, this whole thing is making me flash back to a few weeks ago when my mom found my vibrating dildo when she was looking for stationary in a cabinet in my room (my stationary is in a cabinet in my bedside table, which normally no one else goes into so it's the most convenient place to put the thing). I was definitely more freaked out about it than she was. She was like, "What is this, a vibrator? Okay." (I mean, I guess she probably expected a woman of my age with no sex life would have some sort of outlet.) IDK, for me parents and sex do not mix. Period. It's just the way my brain works.

It is entirely normal for 12 year-olds to explore solo sexual pleasure, and to have a curiosity about sex that leads to viewing porn, but I am not entirely convinced that 12 year-olds should be given directly or indirectly adult sex toys, even those for whom orgasms may be (more) difficult to achieve. To my mind there seems to be a big difference between a 12 year-old and the 15 year-old girls previously discussed who have an interest in obtaining a vibrator or dildo. It is the difference between 6th grader and high school. Moreover, there are reasonable arguments that exploring vaginal penetration at 15 is a timely part of a young woman’s sexual development and should be done with a toy designed for that purpose. A similar argument can be made for those young women who may need more powerful stimulation to achieve an orgasm. But I don’t think EMM would be wrong to tell her son he needs to wait for a few more years.

Why can't the parents just act like the kid wants to be Harry Houdini and let him learn "magic tricks" and safety around being an escape artist? Then he will safely learn the tools of the trade with no embarrassment and no icky feeling that parents are in any way aware of or involved in his kink. They don't have to acknowledge or bring up the sexual aspect at all. Then more boundaries are maintained.

I'd focus on safety issues with CUFFS. Give him a budget for buying equipment and recommendations for good review sites or a list of safer purchases. If he loves his handcuffs then he needs to follow safety precautions. Maybe he can only have them when an adult is home to give them to him. Promise not to enter his room without knocking, and maybe he can deal with you knowing what he's getting up to.

I would also get him to a kink-friendly counselor, who can probe if he's struggling with depression.

And support him doing other things that he enjoys. He's an athlete; maybe rock climbing would tie in well with his interests.

Kids that age don’t want you, as a parent or grand parent, saying too much to them about anything. Tough. The job is to protect and guide them until they can do it for themselves.

Yes SA, most twelve yr old boys I’d imagine have solo sex play, who knows re girls. Doesn’t necessarily follow that they get to watch porn, and surely not the sort of porn involving cuffs. Parents can and should involve themselves in what children that age are watching.
Their minds and tastes are still developing. Video porn is a sad way for kids to get introduced to sex, imo, rather than thru personal experience.
Cat’s out of the bag now with boy from LW1, so yes, I feel it’s time for the adults to talk with him. Maybe Erica’s suggestion of a sex positive therapist is a good idea, as well.
Also perhaps take the cuffs off him. Play cuffs sure, real ones, what were they thinking. He is twelve ffs.

To CUFFS - and heck, the second ldub - One way I found success in speaking to my then-early-teen daughter about sex and sexuality was in a way to take the direct focus off of her in these conversations. Less squirmy for both of us and helpful for her to be able to process the topics when it was not her on point.

First, spread the discussion over time - an old fashioned "birds and the bees" sitdown just doesn't cut it. Instead, in everyday conversations where something related to these topics come up, express something that gives the kid food for thought. Sometimes just a glancing thought, sometimes more of a discussion, depending on her response. For example, I offered my reasoning for some decisions I made, the why (logic/thought process or emotion), and the results (mistakes or good calls) regarding self determination, self-respect, safety, consequences. Over time, these small conversations build a foundation for your kid to make their own hopefully good calls. I always told my daughter "please - don't repeat my mistakes - find your own new ones to make!" heh.

Second, when my kid indicated she wanted a real "sitdown" intensive conversation regarding her developing sexuality, I again tried to not put her on point. I acknowledged that no teen, ever, did not have sex (or do drugs) because their parent said no. I affirmed to her that it was solely her decision what to do with her body- as long as truly was her decision. Instead I asked her to consider her decisions in the framework of her own self-determination, self-respect, safety - end whether she would still have wanted to do such and such in a week, a month, or a year later. I explained why I would prefer her to not do some things bc of certain risks. We've joked since I made something (exploring sex, drugs) that is generally exciting - partly because it's "forbidden" - into commonplace and boring. Consequently, she had a pretty level head in her teen decisions, I am proud to say.

Maybe more to the point to CUFF's worries, I had one concern regarding my daughter's developing sexuality and worries about her developing a healthy relationship with sex and her body. As everybody knows, conversations with teens about this are delicate. One very successful way we found to navigate the sensitivity and embarrassment on both sides is that I announced that I was gonna ask a question I DID NOT WANT THE ANSWER TO - and explained the why of the question. This helped us frame our talks so we could talk openly but not so directly we each died of embarrassment. In our case, I asked how often she masturbated (at 16) - and why I asked (because I hoped she was developing a healthy relationship with her sexuality and her body). Though neither of us wanted her to answer that question, she returned that question to me & I answered honestly - then we had one of the most fulfilling conversations we have ever had regarding individual sex drives, cultural stereotypes re female sexuality, etc.

Almost 10 years later, she says she learned alot with this approach.

To the parents that wrote in as well as any other - we are so intent on not making mistakes, ever, doing everything right always, that we forget life is a learning experience. And that raising a kid is not a one shot deal. Just like getting your kid to pick up their damn socks is a work in progress not remedied by one *ahem" talk, so is teaching your kid to be safe and healthy in their physical and romantic relationships a work in progress. Don't stress on one fix/one serious conversation - instead, keep open-ended conversations going on over time & be sure the kid is learning to make safe decisions now.

These are hard questions Dan, rearing children and giving advice about same, we’re all scratching in the dark here.
Our kids are not our friends, especially during the years when they transition from childhood into adulthood. Later on, when the tsunamis have passed, one hopes a friendship between equals, adults, has survived.
Before that a parent needs to stay a parent and sometimes their kids will hate them with power. Long as the parent has, in their own adult mind, been fair and you know seeing more than one side, then that’s it.
A tantrum thrown by a twelve yr old is not that much different to one a two yr old gets together. Instead of lying on the ground screaming, they slam doors.

Tell kinky kids about BDSM; safe, sane & consensual; and that kinks may come in early.

Explain you're not telling them to get them started now, but that if they've got an interest, it probably won't go away any more than fancying people (or not) goes away.

Explain that if they read/watch about crime they may find it easier to find information about criminal sadism, which is unfortunately generally just called "sadism" by the Press and true-crime books. This is because information about sex gets filed as "about sex", thus hidden from young people, which may mean that criminal sadism is the first kink kids become aware of from crime on TV or people being tied up against their will in fiction. If they're freaked out by getting feelings about some very scary stuff on the telly, explain there are safe ways to play with the feelings, and the reason they're not seeing the safe stuff is that it's in the "sex" file...

Criminal sadism exists, but recreational sadism allows people to play without them becoming bad people. Tell them that as they get old enough, they will be able to learn about how to play safely, and if in the meantime they get erotic feelings about non-consensual situations this should only be an issue if they act them out rather than keeping them for fantasy or play. Tell them to keep them for fantasy just now: they're barely old enough to negotiate sexual attraction, let alone dealing with a relatively rare variety that might scare people.

(I've just been reading a book about women's private/reproductive issues (including FGM), and I found it depressing that nobody gave a view of sadomasochism that wasn't criminal sadism. It's understandable because the author chose a lot of voices from women in involuntary sex work in Dubai, where apparently the power-crazed loonies use apparent sadism (actual criminal sadism) to impose their will on women. I don't have a BDSM kink myself, but I think people should criminalise consent issues more than "does it look weird/abnormal?")

I've thought for years there should be a distinction between criminal sadism and kink, and the fact that it's much easier for kids to find/see disturbing things (rape, crime, people being frightened etc) than relatively safe things like kink is rather a pity. In a more sensible sex-positive society kink would be "that weird thing some grown-ups do", and as kids get to the age where they show a sophisticated interest, they would be taught: no breath-play ever, here's how to keep safe, here's how you might get costumes or tools.

I’ll warn you two LWs, this time coming up often it’s gonna be where you wish they were back being two. Trust yourselves, and talk thru strategies of care. They gain power now, all that youth bubbling up. Think of yourselves as surfers, riding a wave, that’s what adolescents demand.
Then as one sees they are handling that bit more of being in charge of themselves, responsibly, one steps back a little more.
I wish you guys smooth sailing/ board riding.

Ms Muse - To paraphrase Keith Hale, were your mother looking for stationary, she should have known she couldn't remove it from the cabinet. (He did genuinely put a remark quite like this in his first novel.)

I'm not a parent but I know I would fight tooth and nail before giving any person under the age of 25 anti-depressants. More long-term harm than good, imo.

A couple of book recommendations for the two of you, by Daniel J. Siegel. M.D. ‘Brainstorming’ is specifically about ‘the emerging adolescent mind, ages12-24.’ The other two are ‘Parenting from the Inside Out,’ written with Mary Hartzell, M.ed. and ‘The Developing Mind.’

@29 I take exception to that. While 12 does seem a little young and there is a problem with over-prescribing, there are definitely situations where young people should emphatically be on antidepressants.

I started taking an SSRI when I was 14-15. I had been in talk therapy for a year already, and yet my depression was escalating at a scary rate. While it took me the better part of 10 years to find just the right combination of (several) different meds to help control both my depression and my anxiety, and while it turns out I have a mutation that means I can't actually absorb SSRI's properly (I got a pharmacogenetic assay done a few years ago because my depression was treatment- resistant and I had tried tons of different meds already), along with therapy, the pills have basically saved my life. I'm 99.9% sure I would be actively suicidal or dead right now if I wasn't or had never been on any meds (and I'm a scientist-to-be, so it means something if I'm almost 100% sure of something). I'll still be under the age of 25 for several months.

Psychiatric meds are scary, but for many people they are necessary. Side effects can be minimized by trying different classes of meds and different doses (there are even antidepressants now that don't cause weight gain, if that's a major concern) and, frankly, in my opinion and certainly in my case, any long-term effects are worth it since the alternative is being dead or constantly hospitalized for trying to kill myself. And I'm not even the kind of crazy where you have hallucinations or psychotic breaks if you're not on meds. (Not that they're more or less crazy than me. I'm just a different kind of crazy.)

We don't know why this kid is on antidepressants, and for all we know, everyone has done their due diligence and it's absolutely necessary for him to be taking them.

All that said, it's never a bad idea for someone to be in therapy if they can afford it, and if the kid has enough issues that he's on meds I would suggest exploring therapy to help with his treatment. And if the meds aren't working, don't be afraid to try new ones. That's the only way to find out what actually works. (And if many years later you're still stuck experimenting with minimal results, try getting your DNA analyzed. It helped me narrow down the options. More information is always better.)

I think restraints versus handcuffs is a REALLY good idea, but one thing that jumps out at me is the escalation; the cuffs suddenly being attached to a belt. When I was younger than even that (and this isn't to scare parents, but), I went from a complete fascination with handcuffs to desperately working to rig my jump rope to the ceiling so I could tie my neck (with blood flow already being restricted to the various limbs, mind you), and with enough effort, create my own damn self-choking device.

Fortunately, I didn't know how to do a slipknot, though I tried, so it didn't work QUITE the way I'd wanted it to. If I'd had google back then, who knows?

(I also got my jump rope taken away when it was found tied to the ceiling and I could not come up with a good reason. Parents should probably be on the lookout for things like that.)

Basically, the point I'm trying to make is that NO restraints should be given to the kid without the EXTREME understanding that some things (anything tied around the neck, below and above joints) are off limits, and if infractions are even supected, the restraints should be taken away. Simple as that. Don't give kids all the freedom to make these decisions without giving them THE most important rules, guidelines, and lectures first. Print off a pamphlet, if need be, and tell the child that they won't be allowed to access the cuffs again unless they can recite the rules and promise to obey them.

They still might not, but stressing how dangerous these things could be is STILL really important.

"My husband feels uncomfortable buying my son a sex toy, but I find myself sympathizing with my son's frustration."

There's a whole novel, right there.

Yes slomo, the twelve year old boy might not mind his mom buying him a sex toy, the twenty five yr old man might look back on the experience and cringe.
I feel one stays away from one’s sons’ sexual lives, LW2, if you are the mother. Dads can relate a bit more of course as mothers can with their daughters. Otherwise one might find that as an adult male, one’s son is keeping his distance.
Yes a son talks with mom about emotional stuff, how they are going, inside. How to be respectful to others etc. Their ability to navigate their maturing as sexual animals has to be their private business. It’s dicey getting involved there, as a mother.

You must have turned your parents hair grey Pollyc @32.

LW2, when LW1 bought those cuffs and gave them to their son, they then became responsible for overseeing how they are used. Tell your boy you’re sure he’ll sort it. And change the subject. And he will.

@7 thanks, Auntie!

Re CUFFS: maybe it's time to install blinds/curtains in junior's bedroom so he has some privacy for cuff play (unless he's a budding exhibitionist as well). It may also be good to have a frank discussion about auto-eroticism as it seems only a matter of time before the belt around his waist is placed around his neck during his play time.

Of course, as so few people write letters anymore, I fear for the stationery market.

Miz Mooz @ 31
Are there any cannabis-based options out there, capable of doing the trick on their own while avoiding the balancing act?

My first deviation from the norm appeared in an early age, and came back in a mostly sexualized context once masturbation started at 12 or so. (While there is definitely a sexual element, this was never the sum up.)
Few years later my mother found out and offered help. Her approach was extremely progressive and loving I was still terrified she knew and denied everything. It was my way of saying “I don’t want to talk about it,” and it was respected.

Things are different nowadays: past unacceptables are tolerated, online and in person communities do exist, shopping is so much easier.
LW1 comes across as loving and sincere. As others have pointed out they may struggle with the idea of having a kinky child, and a very likely future adult, yet looking for accommodation and safety as opposed to denial and shaming.

I respect those who don’t want children. Parenting is indeed challenging at times and not for all, yet also full of love, joy, commitment, and growth.

@29, tempur. Severe untreated depression kills, in the form of suicide. Of course it’s always important to do a benefit/risk analysis when it comes to any meds and their side effects. But depression can be a very serious disease and SSRIs are literal lifesavers for many.

@31 thanks, CalliopeMuse!

pollyc @32 "Print off a pamphlet, if need be, and tell the child that they won't be allowed to access the cuffs again unless they can recite the rules and promise to obey them."

Good advice. When my kids were first riding bikes (and later driving), we made similar sheets of safety info and had them learn the material by heart. Of course that's not a guarantee that they don't ignore the advice when they're out of one's sight, but at least it helps one feel that one has thoroughly gone over the risks.

Yes CMD@41. Having children has been intense and heartwarming. The love a child will show you, fills you up. Then to have adult kids who like to talk with you and even occasionally ask your opinion. That is special.

Yes Mr Venn, so there will be few books in future of Letters between amazing people. Doubt they will start doing Emails of... , books. I keep meaning to write some letters, I never do.
I’ve kept my love letters, even found some of my mum’s from a US service man she had a relationship with back in the forties. She kept her love letters too.

How sweet and wise your mother was CMD. Showed you love and acceptance and respected your boundaries.

Cross dressing is not bondage. So I can’t see LW1 can stay out of the safety aspects of their son’s behaviour. I think it’s the father writing in.
If the LW is the father, then his talk will be easier than having mom there. Leave the boy’s sex with him, he must be safe about it.
Wish you luck LW1.

tempur_tempur @29 Lack of anti-depressants can cause long-time harm to a person under 25.

Whatever the dynamic is in same sex families with children, is not my experience. I’m talking heterosexual families with children, which in many ways is probably far more complex.
As I’ve mentioned before the nuclear family structure doesn’t help. Young sexual animals emerging from those children, can be confronting.
So the structure under which we live is already pressure enough. Boundaries therefore need to be generated from the mind, verbally and thru behaviour, and not created by distance. Though lots of teenagers run away or are kicked out.
Respect, mutual respect. The parent must step up and be the parent, when needed. The child still needs boundaries around them as well as ones between them and others.

I'd say both these kids are damn lucky to have such open minded and caring parents. One day they will realize that with gratitude.

SSRIs can severely impair sexual function, arousal, interest, ability, etc. When given to children before they hit puberty or during puberty it's very easy to miss as a side effect and especially if female can be dismissed as a symptom - doctors don't ask, parents don't ask, the kid w/ no experience doesn't know what their normal would be, doesn't know what's wrong.

The second kid might not have sexual function solo without a toy and be insistent on needing one in order to be "normal". They may be so bold about the request because they knew something was profoundly wrong/broken/missing but not exactly what. Get the gift certificate and be glad your kid wasn't a girl, because you'd have likely never heard about it in that case and any doctor she told would have told her it was the mood disorder talking. A tremendous amount of social interaction (just about everything about relationships and some friend bonding) in middle and high school requires sexual function, don't let this kid go several more years thinking they are broken just because you don't like the idea of your kid having functional genitals at 12, which is a totally normal age to have functional genitals. They use these meds for chemical castration of prisoners for a reason.

LW1 you can communicate what you need to to your kid without getting into it too much - you need to use your curtains at night, I noticed people can see right in - you can't use cuffs on anyone for any length of time because it can severely damage their hands, if you want something for a game that takes more than 20 minutes (or whatever the blood cut off time/nerve damage threshold is) you need to use padded restraints, here's a gift cert. We didn't know this earlier but (saw it on TV, read it in a book, a friend who checked it with their doctor mentioned it, a cop we know said it, a doctor on TV said it) now we do so we wanted to make sure you know, also never put anything around anyone's neck without a lot of professional training, it's surprisingly easy to accidentally hurt or kill someone (cite dead celebrity here? That episode of Bojack Horseman?), here's a gift certificate to get soft padded restraints (still not padded cuffs, the metal is almost certainly still risky, but ask Dan to ask his friends to be more specific or ask a nerve doc about it - generically no specifics - yourself), we just want to make sure your friends are safe, it would be awful if someone got hurt accidentally. If they or you do though let us know and we'll take you to the doctor, ok? It's really important to let us know.

LW2 you can talk to your kids shrink about med options that don't impair his sexual function, Wellbutrin being one that typically does not. If you aren't peeling crusty socks off of every available surface that's probably a sign something's wrong. Former 12 year old boys feel free to chip in re that, I'm just basing that on one brother and ye holy gods was that phase gross.

@38 it's not that there aren't blinds, the kid just doesn't think to use them. Ask me how many years it took me to figure that out as an actual adult.

LW2 "maybe you don't know about this stuff yet but they make cuffs you can wear for longer periods of time, they're typically under the "adult" section, I can shop for them or you can, up to you."

Only downside of this is he might get hogties or something... You may be better off just presenting him with padded restraints, explaining why they're better and maybe exchanging the cuffs for them.

Tempur 29, I went on SSRIs in my late 20s. I needed them much more in the 12-25 time period. I survived without them, but my life would have been very different and much better if I'd been on them in my teens instead of being continually depressed, fantasizing about suicide, socially isolated, taking pleasure in almost nothing in my life, not dating until 21-22, etc.

SSRIs helped me a lot, although I already had some modest improvement in my final years as an undergraduate and much more substantial improvement in grad school. There are some friends I owe a lot to for helping me out of my shithole of misery.

If SSRIs don't help you or your kid, don't use them, but telling miserable people not to take what help they can find shows very little compassion.

borgcube @42 You're welcome! (Resistance is futile.)

CMRwannabe @ 40. Marijuana is not legal for recreation in New York (yet), and currently the list of conditions for medical marijuana is very limited and does not include psychiatric diagnoses like anxiety. Given all the meds I'm on, I don't trust unregulated illegal weed that could be cut with anything.

CBD products are readily available and I've looked into them, but (despite my psychiatrist saying it's safer for me to smoke weed than drink on my particular cocktail of meds), concentrated CBD products mess with certain liver enzymes that are involved in the metabolism of many psychiatric drugs, including some of the ones I'm on. Mixing CBD with some of my meds could result in my liver dumping too much of the drug into my system at once, leading to illness and side effects.

To experiment with CBD I'd have to go off some of my meds. It took me many years to find just the right cocktail of meds, I'm doing better right now in almost all aspects of my life than I have in the last 10 years, and I don't experience any side effects at all from the pills I take. So I'm just not willing to potentially throw everything out of whack to try something that might not work, or might not work as well.

My brother, on the other hand, has been using CBD gummi bears, and apparently they help his anxiety and help him sleep. (I got this information by overhearing things the last time he visited my parents. My brother and I do not speak for many reasons, mostly because he can be a huge asshole and also because he doesn't really want anything to do with me.)

no @53 Wellbutrin is one of the many meds I take. (Between the psychiatric meds, the one I take to control fatigue, the birth control and metformin to treat PCOS, and the supplements, including some I take because of my mutation to let my body absorb folate, I take 15 pills every morning and 2 at night. It's pretty crazy, but everything I'm on I take for a good reason.) It's an interesting med because it's essentially in a pharmacological class all its own.

I can only take the name-brand (I got a medical exemption to get my prescription insurer to cover it, but the copays are still crazy) because while the active ingredient is off patent, the time-release agent is still patented. I tried several generics and while they helped my depression significantly, they all made me intermittently nauseous because the generic time-release agent wasn't working and too much was being dumped into my system at a time and it made me sick.

I don't have any side effects on the name-brand version, but I knew several people in treatment who got crazy side effects from Wellbutrin and couldn't tolerate it at all.

All of that is to say, Wellbutrin is certainly worth a try for some people, but it can be complicated sometimes.

Lol @35, they were always suspicious of me. I could never figure out how they seemed to know what I was up to? Even as a teen, getting away with risky behavior was hard!!

Who's up for the Lucky @69 Award? Tick...tick...tick...

CalliopeMuse, thank you for offering helpful insight on SSRIs, medications, and side effects to look for. I was in therapy at age 6, later in my late teens, and most recently am in service connected PTSD therapy through the VA. I am currently on anti-depressants, use the dosage sparingly (only when I NEED it). Otherwise, I can neither safely nor legally drive, work at my computer, play music because the drowsiness level is so strong.

A very close friend (sometimes FB) got into this as a young boy. CUFFS' letter is basically a clone of my friend's. He started tying his wrists at age 6. He had his first orgasm at 12 after he tied his wrists to the bedpost. He is now 25 and is an expert at safely tying himself up and letting himself go. I worry that one day he'll mess up and not be able to untie himself. Or he'll let someone else do it who then decides to do something unethical. But these fears aside, his story is common, and he's learned to incorporate it safely into his own sex life.

Yeah, um, no way I'd buy my kid handcuffs for any reason. No way. What the fuck is this person thinking? Take those things away. BUTT OUT OF HIS FUCKING SEX LIFE. He'll find his own ways to satisfy his desires.

Raindrop/Phoebe in Wallingford @ 65
“respect for human relationships” starts with self acceptance, as well as acceptance by parents and other loved ones. One doesn’t need to sacrifice themselves and suffer in silence.

That you oppressed your homosexuality because the church told you it’s a sin didn’t do you good, regardless of the martyr status you so crave. You were not allowed to marry, let alone raise a child, and your anti abortion stand looks like a compensating act.

That pathetic admiration of Ronald Reagan, the one who joked “We should send Qaddafi to San Francisco” during the AIDS epidemic darkest times, brings to mind the phenomenon of an abused child idolizing their abusive parent.

Please refrain from sending the miracle crowd our way like you did during the abortion discussion few months ago.

auntie grizelda @62 Thank you for your insight as well! While I can't, most people can absorb SSRI's (selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors) just fine. SNRI's (selective serotonin and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors) are also a good class to try. They don't help my depression, but they really help me with a symptom called non-restorative sleep. I am currently on an SNRI along with all the other things.

In your case, I hope you're on an antidepressant that doesn't have to build up in your system steadily for weeks to work (SSRI's, SNRI's, Wellbutrin -- most antidepressants, actually), because if you are and you're only taking it intermittently, it's not going to have much of an effect. There are indeed drugs that work as antidepressants that don't need to build up in your system, one being Latuda (which you're supposed to pair with a traditional antidepressant). It's normally used as an antipsychotic, but it is also prescribed for bipolar depression and treatment-resistant depression (the reason I'm on it). Adding Latuda has alleviated my depression more than any other med, but it's a much more serious type of pharmaceutical than the other things I'm on. I'm lucky not to have side effects. Latuda does need to be taken at night as it induces drowsiness. Perhaps you're on something similar.

If your side effects are that severe, you may want to try some other types of meds to find one that alleviates your symptoms without such severe ill effects. Of course, if your current regime works for you and you're stable and content, don't listen to me and don't change anything. But if you're on something that needs to build up in your system and you're only taking it as needed because of side effects, it may not be working to its full potential and you may want to discuss other options with your psychiatrist.

I sympathize with the drowsiness issue. One of my most difficult symptoms is chronic fatigue and resultant hypersomnia. I used to sleep all the time, missing school and work, unable to function at all. One time when I was living in a dorm I slept for 48 hours straight without waking up. (I nearly pissed myself trying to get to the bathroom.) I now control the fatigue with what is essentially extended-release Adderol. I don't have ADHD so it's a totally off-label prescription, but it's the only thing that keeps me awake on many days. What I'm trying to say is, fatigue and drowsiness are the worst. I can see why you only take your med when you really need it.

I hope everything is going well concerning the management of your PTSD symptoms. Mental illness is a long road that never really ends, and I can only imagine the frustration of having one induced by life circumstances rather than faulty biology. The human brain is the most amazing thing in the universe, but when it fails us the results are awful.

The moral of the story is -- don't get me started on mental health treatment. You'll end up with multiple walls of text like those above.

The concern I'd have if I were the parent of the handcuff-loving kid, is twofold:
1) I'd worry that during a solo-bondage or handcuff situation, he'd get hurt or the house would catch on fire.

2--and much greater fear) I'd worry that this could progress to auto erotic asphyxiation.

For those reasons, and especially the latter, I think the parent needs to have a talk with the kid, which will be awkward and mortifying and all that. Emphasize that you are only concerned with physical safety and well-being; that you don't judge him for this interest, but you want to make sure he's safe.

Are there easy-release cuffs that someone doing self-bondage should use? If so, get them. I don't know whether the handcuffs are because they are the first and most obvious restraints people are aware of, or whether there's a "law and order" or "police officer" fetish going on, as well.

But the main thing to stress is safety when you're alone and how quickly things can go wrong.

Raindrop/Phoebe in Wallingford @ 67
Despite the façade of happiness and moralistic condescension you probably get it by now: the church lied to you all along.

@31 CalliopeMuse
I've read with interest and compassion your challenges, thank you very much.

And am thrilled to learn that genetics can now tell us when one "can't actually absorb SSRI's properly".

I feel like I should say more because in the past I haven't been the biggest supporter of pharmaceuticals. But I've always only started by saying one should do exactly what you did: "talk therapy" first if possible, seeing what symptoms can be cleared out that way.

Another point you made that I've often made is (in my words) experimenting with alternative meds to see if one can find something that works as well/better with more acceptable side-effects. (I've seen people settle before doing so...and I get it, experimenting with oneself can be an ordeal.)

I've been amazed by what miracles the right meds can to to completely transform the lives of people with these issues.

Oh, and I've known people for who talk therapy couldn't solve their issues, never try it again. Who I think would have benefited greatly from therapy. I think everyone can.

@58 yes Wellbutrin has its problems, it's highly activating for one (energy increase that may be too much) but every med can screw you up, it's highly individual, and the kid gets to weigh that themselves. It's hard to advocate for your right to sexual function at 12 and I'm glad the kid is doing so.

@59 Esper yes, as can loss of sexual function which is why Drs should take it seriously. It's the number one reason people discontinue meds when they need them.

A couple of my children have been on anti depressants, during times of crisis. Glad they helped you dcp@56.
Sorry to hear your brother is unkind to you Muse @57. Hugs to both of you.
pollyc @60: how did your parents know you were putting yourself in danger, you ask. Eyes in the back of their heads, finely tuned emotions sensing ‘that bloody boy is being reckless again.’

Raindrop/phoebe
Despite the show on the following posts your “self-seeking lust” @65 was just as clueless, patronizing, and judgmental as some of your past ones.

Here are some drops of wisdom from the thread I mentioned earlier:
https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2019/08/08/41019822/she-told-him-she-couldnt-get-pregnant-because-she-didnt-think-she-could-and-now-she-is-what-should-she-do/comments/242

105 “You have no conception about parenthood, obviously. You have no right or perspective…”
153 “I don't have kids, except for a vicarious blessing in helping a couple with the costs…
184- “the cynical women on this thread want their sad and depressing views to be proven right want you to KILL your baby”

curious2 @72 Thanks, I appreciate that. :)

The thing that many people find frustrating about the search for the right meds is that it takes a long time for most antidepressants to build up in your system and actually have an effect -- like, anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks. And then if you have side effects or they don't work, you need to titrate down, taking lower and lower doses slowly, sometimes over a period of weeks, before you can stop taking many meds. So it takes a long time to try just one medication. And if you're taking a cocktail of meds, you can only change one thing at a time so you can isolate what's causing what. I've tried about 10 different meds in my time, all in various doses and combinations. It really is quite a process, and you need the right doctor to walk you through it and to be knowledgable enough about current research. I'm lucky to be working with a psychiatrist who is very savvy about up-and-coming research. For instance, Latuda has only been recently proposed for use in treatment-resistant depression (it's currently an off-label use). Thank (nonexistent) god she read the studies that have been done, because adding it has helped me a lot.

And yes, therapy is never a bad idea if you can find the right person. Unfortunately, I've known people who had a bad experience with one provider and never tried therapy again. It's like with meds; sometimes you need to shop around to find the right fit.

LavaGirl @77 Thanks. Hugs right back at you!

Yeah, my relationship with my brother is complicated. I think I've mentioned it here before. He's 2 years younger than me, but through middle and high school he was essentially emotionally abusive to me. Not just rude, but nitpicking everything I did to a level where I literally couldn't breathe or walk around right. Singing in the shower, laughing, and essentially being anything other than perfectly still and silent were verboten. And even if I was just sitting in a room, he'd be like "What are you doing? Why are you sitting there? Do you need these lights on?"

It's because he has his own issues. He has Asperger Syndrome (which I know isn't in the DSM anymore but it's still a useful descriptor) as well as his own anxiety, and is very rigid and set in his view of the world. He actually thought he was helping me be a better person by criticizing everything I did or didn't do. Things have gotten better as he's gotten older. He's still very rude to me and always says I'm talking too loudly or whatever, but he mostly leaves me alone when he's home. I've also learned how to best avoid him.

He graduated in May with a degree in computer and electrical engineering and is working for a major defense contractor doing something involving signal processing on rescue helicopters or something else I can't really comprehend. It bothers me sometimes that my younger brother is successfully starting his life and I'm still stuck at home struggling to finish my degree. But it is what it is.

CMDwannabe -- Unless you enjoy the challenge of the engagement, I suggest no feeding. If it's not fun, what's the point?

I wonder what our poison Raindrop is even doing here.

@80 CalliopeMuse
"...it takes a long time for most antidepressants to build up in your system and actually have an effect...So it takes a long time to try just one medication."

OMG I'm sure that that's horrible!

I knew someone experimenting with different /heart/ meds to try to find the right one; scary since the /wrong/ one could be fatal.

Miz Mooz @82
Exposing righteous, self-glorified assholes can be fun. raindrop/phoebe flash theirs all the time.

Raindrop @65, what an offensive comment. Lust and love go together often, and as these boys mature they will see that. They are just discovering self pleasuring and you crash land here with some bible bashing trite.
If God created us then they created our sexual pleasure.

Boys know their dicks are nice to rub from a very early age, raindrop. Then pow at the beginning of adult maturity, why is this such a problem for you? Boys squirting their come, and getting a little obsessed by this new power. . Didn’t that happen for you.. told it would drop off if you touched it?

@65, @67, @73, @79, and @85: Is it a little slow down at juvee, raindrop? Seek medical help and for cripe's sake, move out of your mom's basement already. Your trolling is not amusing here.

@69 CalliopeMuse: WA-HOOOOO!!!! Major congrats on scoring this week's Lucky @69 Award! Savor the highly coveted decadence.

Ms Cute - From my limited vantage point, I'll say a plurality of the people I came across were interested in magic and/or escapes.

It occurs to me that I never reported on the rest of the dating guide, largely out of annoyance when the author asserted that straight men's compliments on a woman's outfit are worthless if not outright red flags indicating trickery - that's what gays are for. She also took a weirdly hard line about Persuasion despite Mrs Croft's dislike of engagements that could extend indefinitely and Anne's own reflections about going against her conscience.

She had a decent takedown of Miss Bingley and almost got Charlotte Lucas right, but then veered back at the last minute into going on about her example women who'd married men they didn't love in a way much better suited to Maria Bertram. It made me think that one might enjoy hearing a good analysis of Charlotte as an A-spec person, to use a YouTube term. Despite her general liking for Mary Crawford, she blundered in saying both Crawfords had good instincts in going for the right people - perhaps a defensible position in Henry's case but certainly not Mary's.

Her only look at the older generation, excepting a quick passing glance at the late Lady Elliot, came in an analysis of Mr Bennet. Probably better that she didn't attempt the Crofts.

The final section consisted of two MC quizzes to help the reader determine which Austen woman she resembled and which Austen man resembled her love interest. There were six alternatives and characters. The questions about one's favourite movie star seemed a misstep. What stuck in mind was about how people dressed. The scoring system aligned with (on the female side) the 1-6 spectrum Anne Elliot-Jane Bennet-Elizabeth Bennet-Mary Crawford-Lydia Bennet-Marianne Dashwood. This suggested, in reference to the scoring of the dressing question, that Anne would dress down, for comfort; Jane's apparel choices would be feminine; Elizabeth would dress well but not flashily; Mary would dress sharply, to be noticed; Lydia would dress like a [rhymes-with-glut]; Marianne would dress to express her personality. That seemed badly off on Anne and unfounded on Jane, while also ignoring that both Elizabeth (with whom it seemed to matter more than with Jane) and Marianne were very hard up. There were similar options on the male side of the question, with one exception. Dressing to express one's personality was replaced by looking as if one were wearing the same clothes he'd worn in middle school. And, of all people, that was aligned to Mr Bingley, when it seems the obvious property of Mr Knightley.

There seems to be some kind of deep-seated malfunction. Somehow @19 got duplicated as @91. Which was twice too many for everyone.

CMDwannabe @84 Fair enough. Carry on.

I think the toothbrush mentioned by Dan was alluding to an invitation some 20 years ago, in which Savagistas were encouraged to send in their most embarrassing holiday season sex-related stories. Masturbating after chopping hot peppers wouldn’t count due to commonality.

As I recall someone told us about his cousin performing a breasts job in a room upstairs during dinner, her uptight mother stepping in just as he came on cousin’s chest.
The winner was an electric Mickey Mouse toothbrush. Someone got it for Christmas and it disappeared shortly after, mom telling him that probably one of his friends liked it too much. Much to his horror he found out later that the friend is none other than mom who came up with a very creative use for Mickey.

Lava @ 86
A vicarious blessing in helping a couple with the costs makes one a parental expert.

Oh raindrop. If you don’t remember your own blossoming, with affection, that’s sad. From my side, boys becoming men is like training a very strong race horse.
First up is acceptance, then it’s on.
I’m with Marty above, butt out of your kids’ sex lives. Instruct them yes. Talk with them about how babies are made, safety and respect in relationships, how to use a broom, close the toilet lid after they do their shit etc etc. Keep an eye on what they watch online, their minds are sponges at that age, critical faculties are not included yet.
How they run their own sexual self is where a parent needs to help them create that fork in the road. They are heading off towards their adulthood, and a healthy sense of self around sex is a big part of that adventure. Their sex, their story.

And this week's Big Hunsky winner IS...........!!!!

We are Nature raindrop, that’s what we attend to.
Adolescence is a real time in our growth. The moralities are not the focus here, beyond being talked about alongside how Nature pushes us along. Yes. We live in culture, and getting on with others is paramount. Learning to be kind and honest. Though kids pick up these values thruout their early years, because they are learning intensively from day one.
Sex is not dirty, raindrop. Nature is not dirty, raindrop. There are rules of Nature which put boundaries on sex. We don’t need religions to do that as well. Why are you even here, and on this thread. Rearing kids is fucking hard.

@57 CM - at this time there is no evidence that CBD does anything. It's important to only recommend evidence based medicine. Generally if it's a fad and/or claims to fix everything, it's crap. Just a marketing scheme, it's just pumpkin spice (although in fairness to pumpkin spice it was a technological advance and does work for the purpose stated, so that's not an accurate parallel. How about jade eggs for the vagina ala Paltrow? See Dr. Gunter re that.).

I have no issues with the use of non working things as placebo, it's a psych disorder, if it doesn't hit your liver, kidneys or other meds and it helps you, fine. But don't recommend them to others, unethical.

As a rule, unless someone is a close relative, absolutely nothing you do med-wise will be applicable to anyone else.

If you've failed on 10 meds, congrats you're treatment resistant and eligible for not only ketamine and transcranial magnetic but that alarming experimental pencil sized brain defib, should you be so bold.
The protocol is after two meds fail, electroshock. Obviously no one does that bc brain damage but so people know - if you fail on multiple meds it's not considered useful to go through all 40 or so on the market. Taking several years to get your meds right is typical though, and they will change throughout your life.

Anyways. LWs, I do wish you both the best.

@100 raindrop: Congratulations on hitting this week's Big Hunsky Award! Savor your newfound fame and glory wisely.

@102 LavaGirl: Poor little raindrop can't help himself. The comment threads in Slog must be pretty boring this week. Methinks he's had one too many bowlfuls of Cocoa Puffs. And they cancelled Speed Racer.

Yes Grizelda, as if this topic isn’t hard enough.. facilitating adolescents’ healthy growth. Then the puritans arrive.

Healthy in the adolescents’ own acceptance of who they are sexually, and staying safe in practicing it. Who are others to comment, that’s where religion really stuffs it up. Always sticking it’s nose in peoples’ private business.
As Muse has told us, somewhere, my memory fades, there are penguin gay couples, birds who are monogamous yet not. Nature does not judge.

Rainbdrop @ 104
Who are you trying to fool?
Your arguments and choice of words on this thread and beyond are almost always in line with that of evangelical right-wingers. Your posts are short, intending to provoke, and once others react to them you go merrily around the issue.
The lates, as demonstrated above, is to claim mischaracterization while chastising others for their morality, ”diminishes the credence,” once they expose your crap.

The “contribution” you provide is never backed up with personal experience and quite often comes across as clueless, judgmental, and condescending to many other commenters relating to LW’s and the issues presented in their letters.

Claiming free speech is very moving. I wonder how long a lefty commenter would be allowed to chime in on one of those miracles threads. If this “sense of community” falls short of your high standards feel free to go elsewhere.

I don’t read your comments @110, heavens who has the interest? I was having a rave. You turning up was the catalyst. Religious people like you all follow the same repressive scared of their shadow script.

Oh and raindrop. Don’t bang the door on your way out. Thanks for killing an important thread with your bull shit.

No you haven’t killed it, you don’t have that power. Contaminated it.

I feel another rave coming on..
Lust to a 12 yr old is pure and powerful and new. As the child grows the lust changes and is integrated with the social world and transformed into lust and love. Then after fertile yrs, lust has a dimmer charge.
For boys, because their ejaculate all over the sheets makes it impossible to ignore, touching themselves is inevitable.
For us girls, with Religion being taught, how many touched themselves? We got the period, which tends to make one freak the fuck out when it starts and be a little afraid of the whole story. Priests behaving like they did/do, and girls must stay chaste and not touch themselves.
Jesus was a good guy. End of lesson. I’ve had religion raindrop, and all it did was lie.