Coital Encounter dude doesn't sound like he really has much empathy for his friend's situation.
Also, he describes himself as single, so his sign-off, "Married Asshole Refuses Intercourse To Affectionate Lady" appears to refer to her husband. This, and his demand that she likely trash her marriage, makes me wonder what he's trying to accomplish.
Anyone else think that SHORT's felonious*, dynsfunctional-relationship (twice divorced doesn't speak well to SHORT's abity to pick partners or conduct himself in relationships) past and/or alcoholic, depressed present are going to be bigger problems than his height?
Granted, I'm also 5'7", and once I became aware of the statistics on women filtering men by height on dating sites, it occurred to me that the practice could explain part of my complete lack of success using dating sites (by which I mean I've gone on zero dates with people I met online, after hundreds of hours invested), but there seem to be some issues that would give your average person more reason to avoid a relationship than an inch or two of femur length.
What he definitely shouldn't do is lie - he's just setting himself for more investment in first dates that go nowhere by doing so rather than giving women who care a lot about dating men toward the top of the height distribution a way to opt out and save them both time.
*One generally pleads no contest to misdemeanors rather than going through the time and expense of a court trial with a losing case, so "criminal conviction" almost certainly means "felony."
MARITAL~ “...there's really no reason to use the phrase "our coital encounter...”
True dat. Why not “Making Butter With One's Tail” (1590s)
“Grope For Trout In A Peculiar River“ (Early 1600s) or
“Take A Turn At Bushy Park” (1800s) my favorite...
SHORT~ Hmmm, so much for the value of three college degrees. Maybe you should open a produce kiosk... “Convicted Dick’s Twice-Divorced Egg Stand”. I don’t think it’s your stature that’s holding you back, but it is an easy scapegoat to blame things on. Get some counseling and work on your self esteem. BTW, you tower over Danny DeVito and he’s a multi-millionaire.
"But there are very few women who would respond positively—or at all—to a man whose online dating profile dripped with contempt for women who don't want to fuck him."
Exactly. I'm 5'4" and entirely indifferent to my male partner's height, and find all the prejudice against short men to be ridiculous. But there's no chance in hell I'd answer a message from a guy who leads with his bitterness and victim posturing.
We all have our hangups, and we've all been rejected for dumb/mysterious reasons. But you don't make a dating profile for the people who've rejected you. You make it for the one(s) who'll dig you.
If online dating doesn't work for SHORT, and if SHORT has had intense relationships with women who knock on his door looking to borrow eggs, wouldn't it make sense for him to not to go the online dating route and instead go the meet-by-egg-borrowing route? Seems obvious to me.
Also, is it possible that the online women aren't filtering him out because of his height but are filtering him out because of his alcoholism and depression? I know, I know, plenty of alcoholic depressed men are in good relationships, but I rather thinks that's despite the depressed alcoholism, not because of it.
Try this. Don't put in the part about the disdain for shallow women, but do put in the height, the alcoholism, and the depression. Also mention the efforts to address all of these: the bit about being good looking and holding college degrees, the seeing the mental health professionals, and whatever steps you've been taking to stop drinking.
There are many programs and protocols for helping people with alcohol addiction. None are perfect. No one method is good for everyone. It's a matter of finding the right one for you. AA is one of the better known alcoholism treatment programs. It doesn't have a terrific success rate, but it does have some success rate. It's the right program for some people. It could be the right place to meet women.
MARITAL-- You haven't done anything terribly wrong by offering to have sex with her. It's called making a pass, and as long as you gracefully accept being turned down, as long as you don't nag or cajole, you're fine. If, when making your offer, you acted like you'd be doing her a favor to deign to have sex with her, then that's insulting. Again, not the most horrible thing, but somewhat wrong. Also, it's a little insulting to offer sex when she's looking for something else or something more. There's nothing like being misunderstood. I don't know if she said, in effect, "I want sex with anybody" or if she was confiding that she wishes her stress levels were such that she could have sex with her husband. Sure seems to me that it's likely the latter. I mean, if you're too stressed to have sex with a husband, why would it be less stressful to have sex with someone outside the marriage?
I'm not saying you did anything terrible wrong with your offer, but if you want to do something right, offer help to your friend in ways that will help lessen her stress and strengthen her marriage. Babysit. Do housework. Arrange for her and her husband to vacation somewhere without the kids. Pay for marriage counseling. Listen. Be a friend.
5'7" isn't tall, bit it isn't SHORT, either. It's possible that the reason the lw is lonely has little to do with height, but much to do with personality or other stuff entirely.
Griz is slightly back upon fighting a nasty cold. I will check back after reading this week's Savage Love letters, Dan's responses, and comments.
@1 WA-HOOOO!!! Congrats, fubar, on scoring FIrst Post!
SHORT, I'm five foot five and live in Sweden where average male height is five foot ten, and have no trouble with online dating. Yes, many women filter short guys out but many don't. I don't think it's your height. Do the standard advice thing and have close female friends scrutinize your profile and be honest about it.
You're right about the effect showing your disdain would have. Similarly, I've dated several overweight women, but none were the kind who start their profiles with "I'm fat and if you can't handle it, GTFO". It's not a good impression.
AC, you can't keep him from living in this world too. I think you should go to these events, if the only reason you don't want to is Chuck. I'm sure you didn't drift apart from him in the first place by refusing to share space with him like you are now. You can't be direct now because your friend isn't out, so all you can do is encourage her to come out with the fact that she banged him while blacked out or despite her protests, so you can talk about it without spilling secrets. Or file it as a nasty rumor that you aren't going to hear both sides about, and you're left with a guy you probably still don't care for who is the subject of nasty rumors. Can't you ignore Chuck, or politely focus on his present vibes for good or ill, and have fun with the friends that you miss? Maybe Chuck is a completely different person now. Is this happening because you want to bang your close friend?
MARITAL, how did she tell you that her marriage was sexless? It also sounds like she told you that she was unhappy about it, but not what she's done about it with her husband. So I bet she was hitting on you, she's likely cheated before, and you likely dodged a bullet when you refused to be an affair partner. But. Offering a married person sex is generally rude unless they have told you that they are looking, hopefully you said something mellow like she could get laid outside of her marriage pretty easily, you'd even be down, if she opened up her marriage. But if you were trying to be a friend and respect her marriage then advise her to stick her crotch in her husband's face once in awhile, grope him, etc if she's unhappy with her sex life. You are not responsible at all if she asks her husband for an open marriage and he ends it, and that is only one possible outcome here. Likelier you start having an affair together or stop being friends or never speak of it again. It could kick start marital sex if she does ask, who knows.
SHORT, Kindness and compassion leave the deepest impressions. And enthusiasm towards her body. Disdain and rejection can be good short term predatory strategies, generally unhealthy long term coping mechanisms. It's good you're working on loving yourself better too. I hope you can do it without lifts, but maybe they are your style.. Would dating on fetlife wearing heels bring in more or less dates if you leaned that way? Lying about an inch would probably go unremarked but I hope you can love yourself as you are.
MARITAL - How generous of you. It didn't occur to you to offer to take the kids for a night so THEY could go have a coital encounter???
SHORT, yes, it's your height and your height alone that's putting women off. Eye roll. Dude, word to the wise, a twice-divorced, depressed, alcoholic felon who was six foot three wouldn't get many looks in. But to answer your question, yes, if the first thing you do is lash out at women for not being attracted to you, you are not going to get many right swipes. This letter is so clueless I suspect it's fake, but if not, dude. Stop drinking, keep seeing those shrinks, keep looking to meet women in meat space if that works better for you, and hold your five-foot-seven head as high as it will go. Also, as you've probably learned yourself, you're not limited to shorter women -- I'm five six and I've dated men my own height and shorter -- but your odds are indeed probably better with them, so don't expect many positive responses from five-foot-ten women and you won't be disappointed.
Marital, I think you're playing with fire here. I mean, yes, requiring all parties (including spouses) to give informed consent is a pretty basic ethical thing, but you're still in a risky spot. Firstly, unless there was some strong hinting on her part (put her hand on your leg and stared meaningfully in your eyes when she said it) it's pretty likely that she wasn't actually looking for an offer - and now you've made things weird.
Secondly, even if she is down, there's still a pretty good chance that the couple will later decide that they want to Work On Their Marriage and that kicking you out of the picture is step #1. So only go into this if you're ok losing them both as friends.
For the short dude, yeah, no one likes a Bitter Ben who's constantly hating on women for not liking him, because how dare they not like his height/haircolor/ethnicity/religion/job/marital status/dick/whatever. Go file a complaint with the Department of Equitable Distribution of Pussy - oh wait, that's not a thing because you don't have a right to sex with whomever you like. If tinder isn't working out for you go back to egg-borrowing or whatever.
Fubar @2, we don't know whether he picked his own sign-off. And as it's the only reference to the husband "refusing sex" -- the letter just says they haven't had sex due to "kids, stress, etc" -- I'm not concluding that the marriage is sexless by the husband's decision and therefore it's fine for the wife to open it. In fact, it's not clear that the wife wants to open it. It's far more probable that she was kvetching than dropping a hint. At any rate, he's already made his indecent proposal so in the unlikely event he has correctly interpreted her situation, the ball is in her court.
John @3, men lying about their height is so common on dating sites that if he were to list himself as, say, 5'9", I would find that a forgivable beat-the-filters white lie. On the first date he can fess up and explain his reasoning, and either she understands or she doesn't.
Donny @4, I spat my coffee. The omnipotent comment god strikes again!
Fichu @6, good point about AA being a place where SHORT might get help for his alcoholism, and also meet women who are in recovery also and less likely to judge him for it.
Philo @12, MARITAL probably got the answer to his own question -- "have I done wrong?" -- when he saw his friend's reaction. Like you say, it's possible to interpret Friend's words as dropping a hint. If he interpreted them this way, made his offer and she responded with shock or contempt, then MARITAL, you misinterpreted them. No harm, no foul, just don't bring it up again. I agree it's likely she was asking him advice, as a man, on how to get her sex life with her husband going again. She now knows that a single, straight friend is not the right sort of person to have this discussion with. Watch this space for her letter to Dan! :)
BDF @15, amending my response to John @3: If SHORT does lie about his height, he should be prepared to come clean about every other possible dealbreaker up front: the felony conviction, the two divorces, the depression and alcoholism. Otherwise she may think, "He lied about his height, what else is he lying about?" Actually, I may have changed my own mind. With so many red flags, this guy in particular should be completely honest about his height -- and everything else -- if he wants to get off on the right foot with anyone.
BDF @16: Good point. He's like "two divorces, criminal record, alcoholism, depression, online dating in my 40s when most people online are in their 20s and 30s, and probably some other issues with women... but no, it's my height that's turning women off."
Also, maybe he was pretty good-looking when he was younger, but +2 decades of alcohol abuse have done a number on his looks and he's not pulling on the same level he used to. Regardless, there's lots of other reasons to explain his lack of success without blaming the one thing out of his control.
Traffic @17: Indeed. Something about his tone suggested to me, too, that he's swiping on women who are 25-35, shunning women his own age, and complaining about how women are so shallow. ;)
BDF: I didn't want to say it, but yeah, I certainly thought it.
MARITAL asked if he'd done wrong. Dan's answer was about whether the female friend or her husband had done something wrong or might have done something wrong or might possibly do something wrong in the future-- all based on conditions we don't really know.
With this letter, as with all of them, we have to assume the LW is reporting accurately, but in this case the report comes from MARITAL reporting that his female friend reported about "kids, stress, etc." which leaves a few layers of "this doesn't sound like the whole or an accurate story" as far as I'm concerned. What, exactly, is encompassed in that "etc" and why didn't MARITAL think it important to say? Lots of married people have kids and stress and have sex with each other regularly because sex is a great stress reliever.
Is the stress causing a huge breakdown in communication between husband and wife? (Then encourage better communication.)
Are the kids giving husband and wife no time for healthy lovemaking? (Then, as BiDan suggests, babysit.)
I've typed this far, and I'm typing myself into a conclusion I didn't start with. People all the time hear about non-monogamy and think "what!?" Their questions aren't really about understanding and accepting. The questions are more about figuring out what they can get away with without being condemned, or about asking finer and finer legal-like niggling questions until they can tell themselves they've exposed Dan's whole philosophy as a sham. I believe that may be what's going on here.
SHORT if you add a few inches to your height, don't be like a guy I met in England through a gay personals ad in the 1980s: "Tall, dark, foreign, lean, 20s, VGL"
He turned out to be 5'4", pudgy, pastey white, 35, British, not-VGL.
Also, you sound like you have significant issues to work through and a fair bit of Trump syndrome white guy entitlement mixed in. Good luck with those.
Let me add some caveats to my suggestion to SHORT that he look for relationships with women he meets at AA.
When it works at its best, AA is a great place for alcoholics to talk about getting without alcohol everything they used to get with it. If a man is in the habit of only having the courage to talk to women when drunk, then he learns from women how they like to be approached, what they like a man to say, when he talks to them while not drunk. That makes AA a fantastic place to meet women.
At it's worst, AA becomes a place where predatory men look for vulnerable women they can take advantage of. It's a shame, but there have had to be single sex AA meetings for the protection of the women.
I hope I didn't give SHORT ideas for a place where he can be disdainful, bitter and predatory. The idea is for him to be in a place where he is neither judgmental nor judged.
Fichu: Oh yeah, forgot about that. NO! No, do not go 13th-stepping around AA meetings - that's sleazy and gross, and also kinda cliche. Support groups are for dealing with your troubles, not dating pools. Don't do that.
Fichu @20, yeah, I was focused more on the probability that Ms MARITAL was not in fact fishing for an extramarital encounter and that he offended her by asking ("have I done wrong?") than Dan's interpretation that MARITAL had done wrong by offering his stud services but only with the husband's consent, rather than offering them on a CPOS basis, which it appears Dan is arguing would have been preferable. I disagree with Dan. I don't think MARITAL should have offered in the first place, but it was definitely better that he offered ethical non-monogamy instead of suggesting she cheat with him. At least now Ms MARITAL knows her friend may be tone deaf and unempathetic, but he's not an amoral asshole with no respect for her husband or marriage, which is something.
(Dan, if MARITAL would be putting her marriage at risk by asking to open it, wouldn't she also be putting it at risk by cheating, particularly with a friend? Oy vey.)
Didn’t we just see the first letter, and didn’t the comments turn into a trash fire? Or am I imagining things?
Re: SHORT -yes, it’s clearly more than his height. But his height is a factor. For some reason, short women on dating sites regularly filter out men who are under 5’11” or so. I know because I used to do that when I was a young idiot, I was far from the only one, and none of my women friends thought it was unreasonable.
BDF @24: I think Dan's point was that by asking permission, she'd be putting her marriage at risk now, preempting the possibility of not getting caught and the marriage reanimating itself later. I'm still inclined to think, based on the LW's sign-off, that the husband is not putting out and the wife instigated... trying to get her needs met without busting up the family right now.
Beedeetee @25: Yes, sometimes Dan reruns SLLOTDs. The original is here:
Re SHORT, not a problem, since SHORT shouldn't be dating young idiotic women anyway. :)
Fubar @26, I got the point -- that if she asked and he was against it, she'd be risking the marriage, whereas if she cheated but didn't get caught, she wouldn't. Even Dan admits the not getting caught bit is a big if, and he ignores the ethics of the cheating.
I would think that if Ms MARITAL did want to solve her sexless marriage problem unethically, she would choose someone who is not a friend of hers and most likely her husband's. Traffic @14 is right that acting on this could easily cost MARITAL that friendship. And I reiterate that the sign-offs are not necessarily chosen by the LWs and, either way, not so much chosen for their accuracy as their making a handy acronym. If, and this is another big if, the signoff is accurate and the letter is not (ahem), then MARITAL has indeed made his condition of ethical non-monogamy known and Ms MARITAL can take him on those grounds or find someone else on Tinder, which seems the easier option if she wants to avoid drama.
For whatever it's worth, over the years more than one friend has confided in me that their marriages have become sexless, and I never once interpreted that as a request that I have sex with them.
Sorry, I'll shut up soon and let other people make their points. But I wanted to continue the conversation with Fubar.
If Ms MARITAL asks to open the relationship and husband doesn't want to, that risks the marriage. However, really? A 20-year relationship, with kids, and one question ruins it? Seems a pretty low risk to me, compared to the risk that the marriage would be destroyed if she didn't ask, did cheat, and did get caught. And nobody sets out to get caught, but many do, so I still see a higher risk in cheating than in asking to open the relationship.
At any rate, it's Ms MARITAL's call as to whether she wants to have sex with MARITAL badly enough to ask her husband. If she thinks the odds of him saying yes are small, she can decide not to bother asking. In other words, MARITAL hasn't risked the marriage by offering if that offer never gets put to Husband.
LW #1 - you are in a tough position. However, by hanging out around this guy you are likely encounter the ability to make an impact. If he is the sleaze you believe him to be, you will not have to wait very long for him to say or do something unsavory in front of you and your other friends. I suggest you prepare for that moment with a quiet but devastating comment, focused on your own unwillingness to abide his perspective, that makes a big impact on your friend group. Nothing will have a more profound effect on his reputation than letting him out himself in his own time.
I'm a woman who's 5' 10", and my first serious boyfriend was 5' 2". He was smart and funny and loved the same science fiction books I did; I met him in fencing class, which we were both in because we'd read the same sword-and-sorcery fantasy novels too many times. :-) Height doesn't matter to all of us, but alcoholism and felony convictions do. Don't worry about your height, but do clean up your life!
BDF @27. Idiots come in all ages, unfortunately. I have male partner who is about my height (5’ 3.5”) and another who is assigned male and only a few inches taller. Both of them tend to date women in their 30s and 40s and regularly encounter this height restriction problem. I blame patriarchy and that the idea that the man must tower over the woman he’s dating to make her feel “dainty” and “protected.”
My own idiocy was also related to the fact that I had not fully embraced my kinks. I could get that feeling of being overpowered with a much larger man without asking for anything “kinky.” Turns out there are people of all sizes who will gladly pin you down if you ask them nicely. :)
LW2 Seems simple to me. Know your own self and your own boundaries and don't worry about what your friend should/shouldn't do. For yourself, you would like a sexual relationship with her, but you are not comfortable doing it behind the husband's back. You have stated this clearly. The ball is now in your potential fuck buddy's court, and it's up to her to decide whether or not to accept your offer. You can't worry about their marriage. Don't take that on, don't feel guilty. Worst case scenario, the husband gets super offended and wants to confront you in which case you know that this couple has loads of baggage and thank goodness you trusted your instincts and didn't pursue an affair which would really get messy.
There are a million things that are unfair about dating. If it wasn't height, it might be bad skin, being overweight, being neuroatypical, being of a culture that is not dominant, being very poor, having a disability, etc.
There is a real bias on first place against short men and yes it's true that some people will filter for that, yes it's unfair.
But how you handle it matters too, and the "women be shallow" attitude stinks. You aren't going to convince someone who's shallow to stop being that way by insulting them, all you're going to do is make the people who aren't shallow stay away from you because you come across as bitter, resentful and whining.
However, I'd say you really ought to work on how you present yourself. Two divorces and a criminal conviction- neither of those things separately is necessarily a red flag without more details, but the pairing of them makes me think three strikes. But what makes it even worse is following up with the three degrees as a supposed positive without any mention of your profession. Like, most people would not brag about having spent a decade of their adult life and thousands of dollars in school- they would brag about why they did that. Not "I have three degrees" but rather "I'm a professor" or "I'm a doctor" or "I'm a biologist" or whatever. So the fact that you say instead that you have three degrees just makes it sound like your point is "I deserve to be treated like I'm really smart". This was my impression before I got to the height, and then what followed afterwards, the depression, the alcoholism, the disdain towards shallow women. My dude...
I've told the story before but I've had my pants charmed off by a funny smart interesting guy who wasn't just short but also bald and had a micropenis, and while I admit that would prevent me from having a long term relationship with him (since I really like PIV) it did not prevent him from being a very satisfying fling. He had a loving long term relationship and plenty of side action. Yes you need to be bold- but that's not the same thing as being insulting or self-defensive, please see the difference.
I think that's not fair. If the dude is interested in sex with the woman, he should not pretend that he's interested in being her babysitter to help her marriage, what the fuck? This man did the right thing. He clearly stated his interests and his boundaries and - as far as we can tell- he did it in a way that leaves the door open for her to take the next step rather than puts her in a difficult situation. It's not manipulative, it's honest, it does not create future confusing relationships, and it is the opposite of being a NiceGuyTM. He should not be criticized for that and the idea that he should instead spend his time doing something self-sacrificing for her is bullshit. She's currently a friend- we don't know how intimate or casual- and she has the choice of continuing to be a friend, not being a friend, or upgrading to lover. I see no indication that he would be interested in changing their relationship from friend to babysitter nor why it would be appropriate to suggest he should.
Wait you don’t even have to list a height on Tinder. Some people put in their profiles, either because they think it will help or to avoid wasting time with someone who would reject them for it upon meeting, but lots don’t mention it. And 5’7” is easily within normal range such that it wouldn’t be a red flag that he hadn’t mentioned it. If dude does well in person, just leave it off the profile and go on some dates?
@6 Fichu absolutely fucking not. You do not go to AA to pick up chicks, people are intensely vulnerable the last thing you need to do is put them in relationships together. You aren't supposed to date first year of sobriety if in AA and you damn well better not date an addict if you can help it because it doubles the chance of relapse. Ye gods. Awful suggestion.
If you are determined to keep drinking you might date another alcoholic. But that's only if you truly never intend to get well, either of you.
EmmaLiz @34, the fuck is that someone is complaining to a so-called friend that she's so busy with her kids and stressed out that she doesn't have time for sex with her husband, and instead of offering something that would take away some of the stress and give her time to have sex with her husband, he offers his dick as a solution. He's all heart. Unless, as Traffic @14 says, there was unambiguous flirting going on, MARITAL has in all likelihood completely misconstrued a conversation that was in all probability either venting or a request for advice. In other words, I see no indication that she would be interested in changing their relationship from friend to fuck buddy nor why it would be appropriate to suggest she should. Does he want to help? Offering to watch the kids so they can have a weekend away will help. Offering to fuck up their marriage even more, not so much.
Fichu, thanks for clarifying that later on. Women end up with enough stalkers from support groups as it is. You need to be able to feel safe there which means no goddamn dating. Just about everyone would date a sober person in recovery, you don't need to seek out women "who understand". You don't date in rehab either, same reasons you don't go into a mental hospital to date.
SHORT knows theres a similar cutoff for women over 40 on online sites, right? Maybe use that to your advantage?
@3. JohnHorstman. Yes, I think the same as you.
@SHORT. Your problems are (in order) your alcoholism, your depression, (probably) what brought about your conviction and (possibly) what put an end to your marriages. Your height is not a problem. Your attitude to yourself expressed in your letter is a patchwork of self-castigation and vaunting. You're proud of your degrees, then (either through bad-boy pride or self-punitively) have to throw in your felony. You crow you're attractive to women--citing an implausible case (you weren't looking to meet this egg-seeker, but maybe she was looking to meet you?), while the whole burden of your letter is that you're getting repeatedly rejected online. The solution is simple--meet women offline where they're looking for eggs. But this isn't the real issue. Which is ... that you're in your mid-40s, a time of life when you want to make a definite contribution, want security, stability, the security and stability of an identity; and you feel that you're floundering, and haven't fulfilled your promise....
Work on yourself first. Get off the drink. Act so that you can be proud of yourself--taking baby-steps. Be someone (in your mind) that any woman should be proud to have as a partner. Find your pride; live your honor. It's not about your height. It's not about online. Dating can come next.
@36. Dadddy. Didn't think to say, 'be charming, be funny, be self-knowledgeable'?
Friends are not to solve someone's problems. No friend is obligated to provide childcare for another. It might be a very nice and useful thing to do if someone wants to do that, but that's a huge thing and most people wouldn't do it.
But that's beside the point. This man is interested in a sexual relationship with this woman. If your argument is that he should've kept that sexual interest to himself or that it was selfish to express it (and perhaps even further complicated her problem) then I would not argue with you. Like you, I think it depends on the context of their relationship whether or not it was appropriate for him to express his sexual interest.
But to claim that he should not only keep quiet about his own sexual interest (which I might agree, depending on context as I said) but that he should actually selflessly volunteer his own time so that she can have sex with her husband - that's nuts. It's arguing for him becoming a either a selfless saint or a manipulative NiceGuyTM, the first of which is not realistic and the second of which is dishonest and creepy.
The fact is, whether or not he should've told her, he is interested in a sexual relationship. He is not interested in being a babysitter. And he shouldn't pretend the second when it's actually the first.
The only reason you should offer to babysit someone else's kids is if you want to do it. You can't fix other people's marriages, and giving them a break like that might be a nice thing to do, but it's not going to really do much to help out if it's only a one time thing anyway. Besides, if someone is looking for someone to watch their kids, really they need to be the one to bring that up.
I suppose if the only exception would be if these two were genuinely close through-think-and-then intimate best friends- the sort for which your life and theirs are tied together in which case you might be expected to provide them with the relief of babysitting regardless of whether or not it's something you want to do, but if they are that close then he'd have a pretty good sense of whether or not she's open to hearing about his sexual attraction as well, better than us anyway.
Otherwise, the only time someone should offer to watch someone else's kids is if they just really want to, not if they want something else but are pretending to be a better more selfless person, yikes.
@7. Fichu. 'I'll have pity sex with you if your husband knows'. It doesn't sound to me like a great offer.
@28. Bi. Yes. Contra Philophile, I didn't get the sense the friend was hitting on the LW. And given what the LW said, the friend may have been shocked by his response. That is, shocked into silence. But, I suppose, he can recover his standing as a friend easily--just by apologising for saying the wrong thing, maybe asking whether she's had sex with other people or is looking for it, or wants to ignite sexual relations again with her husband.
@34. EmmaLiz. But if the LW genuinely wants to have sex with his hot friend, he hasn't put it that way.... On hearing that her marriage was sexless, he wasn't 'wow! I've always really wanted to have sex with you!'. Instead he came out with an offer of pity sex with the immediate chilling rider that (such was his ethical nature) her husband would have to know. If he was curious about her situation, he should have asked for more background. It's possible she was confiding, in her mind, in an old friend, who would not interpret her truth-telling as a pass, and who would not judge her sexless mariage. It's also possible she was soliciting clandestine sex from someone safe--but the letter as a whole doesn't really back this up.
@42. Emma. Isn't his idea of a recreational fuck for himself and a relief fuck for her?
It’s been years since there has been a height problem letter, if my recall is accurate. Which given my old/er age mind may not be reliable.
I don’t know about this height issue. Lots of women are shorter than five foot seven, so go find them. Do people think romantic partners drop out of the sky. This is the incel mindset, that Peterson or whatever his name is, this is his bull. Women owe these men.
Women owe you politeness, LW, and squat else. It may be your height or any number of signs which show thru on your profile, which put women off. I’d start with attitude. Women owe you squat. Repeat that to yourself over and over.
You're not God or my father! Or my boss!
EmmaLiz @42: Of course, if he has had an unspoken sexual interest in her all along, he should not offer her childcare or any other favours as an attempt to manipulate her into bed. That wasn't the way I read the letter. He doesn't say that he's fancied her for years; he says she's "a friend." A friend who came to him with a problem, and he offered a solution, and the solution that came to mind was not something that would actually help her, like giving her and her husband some time to reconnect, but his penis. You see why I'm facepalming here? No, he shouldn't pretend to be a more selfless person, he should BE a more selfless person. If he wants to help, he should offer real help; if he doesn't want to help, he should have offered sympathy, not sex. If his aim all along was to get in her pants, then what he really should do is recuse himself from this friendship, since he can't offer objective advice about her marital problems.
Harriet @44, as I said, the ball is in her court. If he tries to bring it up again and she's not interested, he'll only make things weirder. (And he should not ask if she's having sex with anyone else. That's none of his business.) If she is interested, she now has his offer to consider. I agree, "I'll have pity sex with you if your husband approves" does not sound like an offer I'd be jumping at.
Yes, he could apologise. "I realise I was out of line by offering you sex when clearly all you wanted was commiseration. Silly me! I'll never bring it up again."
Re your reply to EmmaLiz @34, I read the letter the same way you did.
This woman is making a play for you, MARITAL, and it’s not kids stopping them having sex. Kids sleep, eventually.
Good Call. She asks her husband if you can service her. Please get back to us when you hear the answer.
Cheaters never prosper, and you’d likely end up getting the woman and the kids.
They have issues in their marriage, and if you sneak in there, be ready for the drama.
What please is the deal with the bulrushes?
I've wondered. Bulrushes only reminded me of the story of baby Moses in a basket of them. Now google tells me:
Moses' sister Miriam was found "by the bulrushes", and
A bulrush's flower looks a lot like a corn dog on a stick.
Somehow I doubt I've unlocked the puzzle.
AA got my father off alcohol when he was a young father and a bad alcoholic. He stayed sober the rest of his life. I have a lot of respect for an organisation which can help with such an affliction.
LW, you have a criminal record.. is this white collar crime, or what. An alcoholic. And you think a woman is going to be put off by your height?
Talk to your Dr/ therapist about your frustrations, your loneliness and depression. Your addiction.
This is solid work you have to do, on yourself.
Why do you think a woman would be keen to jump on board, especially with the added chip on your shoulder.
If you are working on these parts if yourself, that’s great. Keep focused and disciplined. Maybe join a samba dance class, or a choir, get out there, around women, and make friends.
That’s what I think you need now, friends.
I'd rather people be more honest this way- let's you know what the boundaries are and what the options are and it's refreshingly honest about intentions. I agree there are times when it's better to keep your mouth shut and just listen, since the letter was only a few sentences long, we don't have the context to judge if this was that time or not.
So that could be where we are disagreeing?
Alternately, the point of confusion could be over his word choice "offered" as Harriet explains.
You are seeing an offer to help out a friend and finding it disingenuous since his motivation might not be to help her so much as to get laid? I see the offer as an open door- just letting someone know you are interested in case they wish to pursue an opportunity that is available to them.
But even if it's the first, as we were not present in the conversation and lack all context, we don't know that the woman was not, in fact, complaining about how much she wishes she could have sex.
But in any case, yes I think the word choice matters- is he saying "I would enjoy a sexual relationship with you" or is he saying "I'd do you a favor by having sex with you".
To me, rule of thumb when approaching new sexy things is that you offer interest and ask for favors- if you flip the two around it can be taken badly. So I get what you mean. But without context we don't know.
Also his sexual interest in her and his desire to help her are not mutually exclusive. Sex is a great stress relief, can build confidence, can break someone's dull routine. But of course it should not be held out like pity sex. I just don't think the letter gives us enough info to draw those conclusions.
(In any case, no he shouldn't offer to babysit, period.)
Lava @50, in the event she was actually dropping a hint, this is the perfect response. Bravo.
Lava @52, exactly. I have no problem dating a man my own height. I have a problem dating a man who resents me for being as tall as he is. Which are you, SHORT?
EmmaLiz @53, exactly. I didn't read his "well I'll have sex with you" as helping HER at all, but as opportunism. You're right, though -- it's possible that a sex buddy IS the help Ms MARITAL wants. And MARITAL wants to provide it, ethically. Thank you, I have a different way of looking at it now.
That said, though, if Ms MARITAL was seeking sexual healing, I think we would not be reading this letter. MARITAL doesn't say how she reacted, but he asks "Have I done wrong?", which hints that she did not take his offer the way someone hoping to receive that offer would have. We don't know though -- (presumed) lack of a positive reaction might indeed indicate she was hoping he would agree to be her lover without her husband having to know. So if the question indeed is "Have I done wrong by insisting on honesty" rather than "Have I done wrong by offering sex," my answer is no, and Lava @50 nails it as to why.
What is this "not my story to tell" bullshit? Some Millennial conflict-avoidance thing? Guess what cupcake, everything that happens to you is your story to tell. You don't have to identify the person involved but you can easily tell your friends the real reason you are being weird. Sack/ova up and try to advocate for yourself, and for your friends, without hiding behind such passivity next time.
Interesting, BDF, I definitely assumed his question was about whether or not he did anything wrong by insisting that they do not have a sexual relationship unless her husband approves. My reason for thinking this was that nearly the entire very short letter was in regards to the husband, not about the offer of sex.
For sure I see now that we can read it any way.
But I definitely took it as "My stressed out sexless friend is horny and I'm down to fuck, but I told her I wouldn't do it behind her husband's back since if I was in his place I'd want to know. Is this wrong?"
Like, I took it as him asking if it's none of his business if she tells the husband or not. Hence my first bit of advice that it's good he stated his boundaries and he can free himself from worrying about how his boundaries affects their marriage. Ball is in her court now.
My mother spent 45 terrible years with a depressed alcoholic felon, but hey, he was 6’3” and handsome. And she never failed to deride my sane, productive, short-to-average height boyfriends.
The height prejudice is real, but seriously—be grateful it’s preventing you from getting in a toxic relationship. Get well, and see who comes your way.
no @ 39
Speaking of dating in mental institutions, I have some crazy stories about crazy people dating from when I was in treatment. It was pretty much always a mess. Codependency, jealousy, cheating, inability to be apart from each other for more than five minutes... Imagine anything that goes wrong in a relationship, but both people have enough active problems to be in residential mental health treatment. The only reason the program "allowed" it was because there is absolutely no way to stop people from fucking and getting attached, no matter how many rules you throw at the problem (especially in a program for young adults where most people are late teens/early twenties). The best they could do was try to regulate the relationships in therapy and make sure people dating didn't live in the same room/apartment. I knew more than one person who had a backslide in their progress as soon as they started dating another patient. It sort of defeated the purpose of being in treatment, in addition to creating distracting drama they needed to spend valuable therapy time on -- drama that spilled over into the lives of everyone they were living with.
So, yeah, I don't know anything about dating in 12 step programs, but dating another person in residential treatment results in a total dumpster fire for everyone involved -- and even for those not involved.
It never occurred to me that women filter by height. I guess I'm naïve. I'm 176 cm (5' 9"), which is neither tall nor short, but I've just added two inches to my profile to see if it makes any difference!
Some women are just as stupid and superficial as some men are. If they're filtering you out on that basis I'd say they're doing you a favor. But there are plenty of short or average men who do just fine (hell, many of the celebrities women swoon over are short - Prince was 5'2", Robert Downey Jr, Javier Barden, and James McAvoy are all 5'7") so it can't just be that. Tom Cruise is also 5'7" and women find him handsome - but he's also a Scientologist and a nutcase, so just as with him, your real problem probably lies elsewhere.
He’s a honey, however his surname is spelt.
Picasso was five foot four. He had women on the go for decades. Then he was a Scorpio.
DrJones @55, OK boomer. This drunken sexual assault DIDN'T happen to him. Grow an empathy gland.
EmmaLiz @56, yes. If the letter had said "my friend asked me to be her fuck buddy since she's not getting any from her husband," I would be in complete agreement with you. Glad we got to the same page.
Some women filter out short men. Some men filter out overweight or older women. And? There are, what, eight billion people in the world. Plenty of women don't mind a short man. That doesn't mean those who do are bad people. Preferences are fine. SHORT will just have to have a better personality to make up for his stature.
Antonio Banderas, 5'8". Elijah Wood, 5'6". Daniel Radcliffe, 5'5". Kit Harington, 5'8". Zac Efron, 5'8". Oscar Isaac, 5'7". Gael Garcia Bernal, 5'6". Mark Wahlberg, 5'7". Bruno Mars, 5'5". The list goes on and on...
@49. Bi. Sure, he shouldn't revisit the scene of his original, probably gauche proposition and ask, 'say, have you been knocking off someone else or have the last six years been entirely dry?'.
She's either making a pass at him or opening up and asking for sympathy, as she might to a straight female friend. I suppose that there may--MAY--be a gray area between those possibilities. If he was interested himself, what he should have said is e.g., 'well, have you missed it? Or have you been seeing another guy?'. It might emerge then, through further conversation, that she was open to a fling--even if it wasn't the only thing on her mind when she was making her confidences. But, as you say, that ship has sailed and the ball is now in her court given what he did say.
When he asks, 'have I done wrong', what I think he means is, 'have I behaved unethically in proposing adultery?'. That is, I don't think he means, 'have I done wrong in insisting on her husband knowing as a condition?'. I feel I can put his mind to rest in saying that he's been a bit tactless but hasn't really done wrong. But she has better options than him. One of which may--again may--be repairing her sex life with her husband.
Harriet @66, what I think he should have said in response to his friend's disclosure was, "I'm sorry to hear that, that really sucks," or, "I'm sorry to hear that, is there anything I can do to help?" If, as EmmaLiz suspects, he has been nursing a latent attraction to her, "is there anything I can do to help" is just leading enough that she could propose a "coital encounter" -- which was her place to propose, not his -- or, conversely, propose he watch the kids for an evening or just say, "Thanks, but I was just venting." If he's not attracted and was offering a pity shag, knowing that the husband's approval was both his dealbreaker and unlikely, he should have just offered sympathy for her situation instead of a "solution." This is a stereotypical gender misunderstanding: when women vent, usually they just want sympathy, but when men are vented to, they think the venter wants a solution. I think this at its core was where MARITAL went wrong.
@51. curious. It's a childhood memory of actual bulrushes. At some level it will have to do with being spared something (as a child in ridiculous circumstances I almost drowned in a different body of water).
Man: women are so shallow! They don't like me because I'm short!
All women: actually, we don't like you because you're a twice divorced, depressed, alcoholic criminal with a negative view of women and a chip on his shoulder and we're going to go out on a limb and guess there was violence involved in the divorces and/or crime.
BDF, @28, if you had offered to "help" you may have been surprised at how easily your offer was accepted. Unless those were otherwise long friendships.
And wrt women want sympathy, men want solutions, I feel the opposite. Kind words can help me feel better, but helping to make my life better feels even better.
So I do think that people generally talk about problems because they want to improve their life, not because they want to dwell on sadness or anger, or manipulate some kind words from others.
So I see the disclosure of a sexual problem with your spouse as asking for help. So if she was attracted to him, I think it was a pass. Otherwise, she should have made it very clear that although he was a very awesome attractive single man, she was devoted to finding solutions that involved her husband and for some reason she wanted his advice in particular.
Women have to take an interest in, and pay attention to men too. Sometimes it is about the nail.
I'd hope that MARITAL could find a nice single woman to focus on, but maybe he needs to be the other man at this point in his life. If he needs a somewhat unavailable partner that's OK so long as he accepts himself. I like his ethics.
Thank you very much for that, I love it! I'm very happy you were spared.
Interesting parallels with bulrushes' biblical themes; salvation, (re)birth.
In case you might like one I found a couple pictures of bulrushes that you could use as an avatar:
2 fits nicely I think with the theme of Dan's column.
To associate an image with one's username here, just click on the icon in the upper-right of this webpage just to the left of the magnifying glass icon, then click on "Account", then under "Profile Picture" click on "Change your picture".
BDF @29: You make a good point about a 20-year relationship, with kids. One question is not going to ruin it. "How do you feel about opening our marriage?" may shake things up (which may be a good thing) but it's unlikely to torpedo the marriage by itself.
Ms Fichu - Okay; offer a friend the use of one's remote cabin for a weekend. Babysitting - maybe, though I like the reasoning from Mizz Liz. Offering to do a friend's housework, though it reminds me of college days when I would clean under my friends' beds, seems weird, and perhaps more so given the genders involved, though I'm more certain that such an offer should only be made if the recipient already approves of the offer-maker's housework. Paying for marriage counseling I can only reach if one of the parties resembles Ms Erica. I did wonder, though, if that suggestion would garner you a host of new best friends.
Mizz Liz/Ms Fan - I'm going to guess that MF2 was gently cadging for free babysitting mixed in with her vent, only to receive a rather different offer. I'd advise married people to do this only with others raising children, as this is the sort of favour that when returned tends to be in kind. "I'll do the same for you sometime." Venting so to a child-free single is iffy optics.
It does, though, remind me of one of my favourite IDTSFYs in Rumpole a la Carte. Claude Erskine Brown has just explained to Soapy Sam Ballard that the instructing solicitor with whom he was dining (when a mouse was found nibbling the dinner) was the much-admired Tricia Benbow. Claude reveals that his wife Phyllida, being away on a case, knew nothing about it, "and must never know." Thinking that Ballard (who has accepted the brief to prosecute the restaurant for unhygienic practices) will keep him out of the case, Claude is profusely thankful and offers to return the favour. As Ballard has recently married the formidable former Matron of the Old Bailey, this at least seems likely to be accepted at some point - or would, if Ballard weren't such a cold fish.
I also greatly enjoyed how, during the case, Rumpole, cross-examining for the Defence, got Claude on his side by asking a series of leading questions about how Tricia intended to brief Phyllida in the Balham Mini-Cab Murders - and how long it took Claude to see that the penny had dropped and here was an alibi. Lovely writing and acting.
Philo @70, nope. Long term friendships. One a straight woman. The other, clearly not that sexless since they've recently had their second child. :)
The "women want sympathy, men want solutions" trope is an overgeneralisation, of course. More accurate would be to say that people of all genders sometimes want solutions, sometimes just want to vent, and usually don't make clear which it is they want. Admittedly the information in the letter is sparse, but I'd be surprised if my reading of she wants to vent, he offers sex, this is the wrong answer not because he stipulated that the husband must agree but because she just wanted sympathy, was incorrect.
Fubar @72: Thank you! If they've been sexless for six years, surely he knows there is a problem too. If efforts to liven things up haven't worked, "what would you think about opening our marriage" is unlikely to sink an already sinking ship, to run with your torpedo analogy.
I guess it's cultural. In my friends group, who are mostly child-free with a few exceptions, it's not at all weird for friends to watch other friends' kids so that they can have a night out. The child-free ones get some kid time and get to hand the child back at the end, so everyone is happy.
MARITAL - You should have opened the door for your friend to turn to you rather you offering her sex, personally. Now your 'friend' has a legit reason to beat your ass to a pulp.
5'0" women aren't any likelier than anyone else to be attracted to a 5'7" dude - short women know you're shorter than the average guy no matter how tall or short they are. Being short is just straight up a deal breaker, moreso than being an alcoholic or an abuser or many other meaningfully bad traits that somehow every women has fucked a handful of those dudes by the time they end their twenties. I never read on twitter about how women are tired of dating short guys.
But being short is not as important as having charisma, as you've found. I would take that charisma and use it to advertise your height. It'll filter out the more egregious #BallerHunters, and if you use charm, it may win over a number of fence-riders.
As for my own bonafides, I'm 6'3" [ok fine 6'2" but I round up on good days] and know for a fact that it attracts women for literally no other reason. I feel bad for short dudes, since they're short their entire life. Short guys don't become entertainers because they get ignored all the time starting in high school - it's because they're ignored all the time starting in kindergarten. Napolean complex develops early, and comes entirely from external feedback. You can't resent guys who are bitter about their height without acknowledging that it's a legitimate issue for MANY people.
@5 the prejudice is super real, regardless of your specific preferences.
@6 we can be sure he doesn't advertise his alcoholism and depression - that filter only occurs once the first date begins.
@17 & @18 Y'all got your Othering and Ostracizing routine down pat. Step 1: Invent details from thin air, Step 2: Assume they're the most likely, Step 3: Get your friends to vocally agree. Great stuff.
@35 not listing your height is code for "you will be disappointed in my height". Same as how wearing a hat in every photo means you are bald. It's called Lampshading, and it tends to generate more questions than answers.
@47 generally speaking, women want a man that's taller than other men, not simply taller than her. If my dating pool was restricted to 5'7" and under, it'd be nearly unnoticeable, since that's what, 90%+ of women? Obviously at 5'7" this guy is still taller than most women.
@60 and @62 When you can stand on a stacks of cash, you look a lot taller.
Has it occurred to anyone else that what MARITAL’s friend might have been after was help in the form of the LW’s perspective as a man or maybe some advice?
Women filtering for height: "it's a PREFerence".
Men filtering for age: "THAT'S CREEPY" (conveniently forgetting that it takes two to tangle; Anna Nichole Smith married an 85 y.o. just as surely as he married her)(Billions seen to have a way of protecting one. Just saying).
News flash: BOTH of those are primate reproductive strategies (as is women wanting to feel dainty and protected), and both of them predate hominids themselves, to say nothing of patriarchy.
Also, there's an awful lot of speculation going on around here as to the tenor of the convo between MARITAL and his friend. If you weren't there you don't know, so, maaaybe keep quiet, idk.
"There are plenty of five-foot-tall women out there, SHORT, women you'd tower over."
I agree with @76 Sportlandia that this statement from Dan reflects an idea that doesn't hold true for many short-to-average women who more attracted to tall men. It's not that they're attracted to or looking for someone Taller Than I Am, they're attracted to someone Tall; it's not a relative height thing. Similar to how many (most?) people who are particularly attracted to a certain amount of thin/not-thin, whatever size that is, aren't judging it in relation to their own thinness.
It seems like it's more often taller-than-average women who care about relative height and seem to think that's what matters. When the Mountain on Game of Thrones (6'9") married his wife last year (5'2"), a lot of commenters on some articles tore into her for being "greedy" for being with someone so big when she should have had the deceny to marry someone 5'7", leaving the giants for those who deserve them.
I must say my assumption is that most women just want to be with a man who is slightly taller than them, not necessarily really tall. I feel like when I've heard conversations about this, that's been the consensus. Upon self-reflection, I think this is true of me. I'm not going to put too much thought right now into whether my preference is problematic or not, since I'm only dating in a theoretical n-dimensional hypervolume (that's an ecology joke).
Regarding height differences between many men and women, nobody has mentioned that having a male partner who is much taller means a woman can wear outrageously high heels and still be shorter than he is!
@69 Queue517: WA-HOOOO!!!! Congratulations on scoring this week's Lucky @69 Award! Savor the much envied SL glory. :)
Griz is still fighting off a nasty cold. At least I can't get Dan, Joe, or any of you commenters sick online. At least I'm not too sick to watch a movie tonight.
@62, @63 Pablo Picasso was never called an asshole.
In between Dan’s publishing AC’s letter as an SLLOTD and here, I got to watch Daniel Sloss’s standup special X on HBO. First time that I’d heard of the guy, and he has a sharp delivery where he embraces machismo while skewering it from a millennial perspective without straying from traditional gender norms.
At the end of his 60+ minute set, which was actually pretty funny, Sloss launches into a routine during which he describes a situation where his friend was sexually assaulted by another old friend after he had introduced her to the group and left early one evening. There was a lot of coping and self-reflection in the monologue that embraced the metop movement but placed some share of responsibility on male friends for trying to prevent other men from assaulting people.
Anyways, In Sloss’ story, he had to gain permission from his friend to tell his other friends why they had to ostracize the guy, who’d admitted it at first but later retracted his admission and accused the group of slander.
To AC, if you can’t get your friends to ostracize the assaulter after you give them justification to, you’ll have to re-evaluate your friends.
The key point here is that nobody who speaks of their "coital encounters" is any good at all at coitally encountering.
@5 "But you don't make a dating profile for the people who've rejected you. You make it for the one(s) who'll dig you." Nicely put.
I'm beginning to suspect that BiDanFan is DantheManHimself. Who else would spend that much time here?
Ankyl @79, some women want a man who is taller than they are. Some women want a man who is objectively tall, regardless of their own height. I find this perplexing since height differences of more than, say, six inches become impractical. And some women don't care about height, but of course it's not in the interest of a man who's 6'2" to acknowledge this fact. SHORT, you're not as out of luck as the tall "alphas" would have you believe.
Marty @87, I wish. Dan gets paid to do more productive things with his time. :)
Yes I'd say a >6" height difference is not so much "impractical" as sometimes a bit inconvenient. But it's also not only when bending "down" to kiss, as it also figures into, for example horizontal during PIV, reaching one's mouth to one's partner's lips and lower.
BiDanFan often knows/thinks of things Dan doesn't.
@85 It's been a little while since I've seen spambots on here! Good to know "Dr timothy" and his ilk are still out there conning the witless. >_<
@76 "not listing your height is code for 'you will be disappointed in my height' " - I take your point about hiding certain kinds of things as an obvious red flag (like the hats or the very arty pictures). I don't know if I'm weird (and I will admit to finding tall guys attractive, though not exclusively) but I don't notice if people don't list a height - the level of info people provide on Tinder varies so greatly that I don't interpret it as "missing info" so much as just one of the thousands of things I won't know from the profile.
Hunter @89, and the shorter has to stand on tiptoes and crane their neck, and as Curious says, certain sexual positions become inconvenient or impossible. Plus, you're walking arm in arm and your head is in their armpit, you're taking three strides to two of theirs, and good luck sharing an umbrella. And many other examples I'm sure you could think of if you tried.
Curious @90, I also often voice disagreement with Dan, which I don't think Dan himself would be doing. Unless this is a master level troll. :)
Something @92: You don't notice if people don't list a height, and you're not bothered about height, therefore SHORT and his ilk would seem to only be excluding people who do care if he leaves it off his profile. SHORT, problem solved.
Yeah, dude, it's probably your height that's turning off prospective dates and not, like, your alcoholism, felony, depression, multiple past marriages, and misogyny. Get some platform shoes. That should get you a perfect woman.
Hi BDF, it sounds like your friends were after advice more than sex, and were respectful about it. I still believe that if you tell someone you are attracted to about your sex problems vulnerabilities, you are making a pass or maybe obliviously bad at monogamy. We seem to agree on one point, that offering sex to a married woman is risky business unless you know her marriage is open or you want to be an affair partner. It more sounds like MARITAL demanded that she open her marriage, rather than ask her to keep him in mind if she ever decided to open her marriage. That's rude, but it's just as rude to push your friend to help you cheat on your husband. He was left with the impression she was so attracted to him that she was going to ask her husband for an open marriage now to sleep with him. Idk maybe he is full of himself but I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt.
All those reading "criminal conviction" to mean "felony" - there is no basis for this in the letter. John Horstman @5, a no contest plea (when permitted, which it isn't always) results in a conviction just as surely as does a guilty plea, it just allows the defendant to assert that they never admitted guilt.
MARITAL might have felt better about himself afterward, if he had not offered her sex, or if he waited for her intentions to cheat to become clearer before rejecting her until she opened her relationship. But Dan could be right and maybe this guy would have enjoyed being an affair partner for some reason. Because he is rude enough to judge the husband as an asshole and solely responsible for their marital sex problems, maybe.
@ Short Dude: Just because some slutty woman banged you for an egg so she could make brownies with the rest of her hash does NOT mean you're hot.
@ Not Hanging with Charlie: I could see not wanting to go on a guys trip to Las Vegas with him, but the specifics of the actual encounter seem alcohol fueled with associated miscommunication and iffy details. I have a close circle of friends, several of whom have other friends that I'd rather not deal with for reasons that are much more clear cut and personal than your second hand beef with Charlie. (Owing money to me, convicted domestic battery, etc.) Yet if there is a group going to do something I'd like to participate in, I figure I can enjoy the other 5 - 6 people. I wouldn't isolate myself to make him the "winner".
@89 I've dated tall women and short women, with most being between 5'3" and 5'5" (ie, average women's height) and I've never felt there's been a height problem, even though I'm somewhere between 9" and 12" taller. Maybe with a 5'0" women there could be a problem? I guess it matters that I'm leggy with a relatively short torso (my waist is that the same spot my 6'7" white friend's is). I've also been with women as tall as 6'1" which doesn't seem especially different? The one thing I notice is that tall women - even skinny tall women - the pounds add up fast. 6'1" women can be 180 and still be quite thin (even if not athletic/fitness oriented), and having a woman close to me in weight is more unusual than height. When you're laying down you're both the same height anyhow.
@100: WA-HOOO!!! Congrats, Spotlandia, on hitting the Big Hunsky! Savor the coveted riches.
Philo @95: "I still believe that if you tell someone you are attracted to about your sex problems vulnerabilities, you are making a pass or maybe obliviously bad at monogamy." There's no evidence Ms MARITAL is attracted to MARITAL. I agree, it's probably naive for her to have shared this with a friend who is a single straight man. She knows this now. I don't think MARITAL demanded anything, just responded to an offer that wasn't actually made. "Yes, I'll sleep with you but only if your husband knows, because I would want to know, in his shoes." "Uh... I never asked you to, but thanks?" is probably what went through her head. I don't think he's necessarily full of himself either, I just think (to reiterate) that he misinterpreted venting as asking for a solution, and he offered the first solution he could think of to her problem of not getting any sex.
Nas @96: He's 45. For a criminal conviction to have any bearing on his current life, it would either need to be a felony or very recent, either of which is a big red flag. It is probably not youthful shoplifting that he's talking about.
Philo @98, yes. If he did pick his own signoff, then either there is key information that he left out of the letter which would change my reaction entirely, or he is betraying a negative view of the husband, which may in turn betray a desire for this marriage to end.
Sporty @100, so there is only inconvenience from the perspective of the shorter person. Not surprising.
The flip side of course being the convenience of having someone to reach things on high shelves for you, change light bulbs etc. Still though, I'd rather stand on a stool and do those things myself and have a partner I could snog while standing flat footed.
Ms Fan first paragraph @102 - Agreed; the less possible the ventee and venter are, the better. Of course, even with an L and a G, one may not be entirely safe. I recall the film Alive and Kicking, in which an L and a G, both dancers or connected to a ballet company, have a mutual vent against the dissatisfactions of their SS lives that goes far enough to convince them to try it on, only to fail when neither finds anything palatable that would pleasure the other. I think impossible ventee is slightly better than impossible venter, which could still invite the inference of attempted conversion.
@41 D- you'd be surprised what the algorithm picks up.
@43 it's not, but the idea is not to use someone else to fix your problems or date while a godddamn mess. Which I think is a good idea when recovering from a severe fairly lethal mental illness, of any kind really.
@43 d - fucking isn't dating, yes you can go a year either way, and I guess if you don't have any friends or family and your only human contact is through dating my recommendation is therapy, which of course you'd be in anyway bc every addict out there has comorbidities and that'll take a few years of work to iron out. Super dangerous to rely on randos for 100% of your emotional needs.
Comments are closed.
Commenting on this item is available only to members of the site. You can sign in here or create an account here.