Savage Love

The Long Game

Comments

1

WGGF~ “... I have suggested making profiles on various websites, but it doesn't happen...”

How about, “I’m MAKING profiles on some cuckold sites. Anything you want to add?” That oughta get a conversation started.

2

"So you don't want to be pushy where the wife is concerned, WCGF, but you'll send me the same e-mail half a dozen times in less than a week."

DAN. When you ignore one behavior (email #1) and reward others (emails #5-6) you're sending a pretty clear message about how to do get your attention.

re: WCGF - Go ahead and make the profiles. It sounds like she was authentically interested back in the day but fundamentally is tired, as happens to us as we leave our early and mid-twenties. If you pave the road, she'll be more likely to go down it/him.

3

Um, no. Do NOT make profiles with your wife's information on it (even without her name/face) without her permission. Unless you want to land your ass in divorce court.

4

In case some missed it, the letter from ASSHOLE has been discussed extensively since appearing as the letter-of-the-day 5 days ago at https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/01/15/42570589/he-wanted-out-so-he-was-an-asshole-until-she-dumped-him-and-isnt-that-better-for-her/comments
Even including participation by ASSHOLE!

5

Does anyone know why sometimes SLLOTD are repeated in the column? It's kind of annoying to re read the same thing after only a few days when you were expecting something new.

6

LW1, oh dear. It’s the marriage changes everything mind frame. Did you get it in writing? No not the marriage, her saying she’s up for it.
Dan’s points are valid, don’t go putting your wife in danger to get your kink happening. Is there a FetLife group for this, check that out, and attend any gatherings where you meet and greet first. It’s her authentic connections with others, which is important here.
I think you have the right to push this conversation with your wife. Maybe she hasn’t thought creatively about how to address this or maybe her cold feet were there all along.

7

Blue @3, word. If I was in theory into this and my partner started making profiles without my knowledge or permission, that would immediately end any willingness I had to participate.

WCGF, maybe it's not the idea of cucking she's put off by, but the idea of profiles. Why not go about this a different way? Do you have any friends in mind? Most women need to be attracted to someone before wanting to fuck them. Instead of pushing for a profile, a thought that may leave her cold, why not say, "So what do you think of Hal?" Or go back to the sex clubs but don't just play with each other. Let HER pick out the guy she wants to bang. But do have the talk; don't let the topic drop. When she says she's willing, say, "Great! So how can we make this happen?"

8

Sandwiches @5, because the column is internationally syndicated but the SLLOTDs are not. When Dan gets a particularly good SLLOTD, it makes sense that he wants to share it with his international print audience too.

9

I'm back! I left a very very long comment on last weekend's column giving my thoughts on the discussion, just in case anyone is actually interested in that. But I want to say one thing here: BiDanFan, I was not embarrassed by your comment about setting me up with that LW. I was going to make the same joke! I just didn't comment last week because my semester starts today and I was finishing up my online Spanish class, though mostly I was spending my time just stressing out about school starting (I'm taking 18.5 credits, including the second semester of organic chemistry), stressing about a family situation we have going on (my brother is having a very tough time -- I might address it later), and being avoidant of things (like commenting here). Don't worry about having offended me -- you didn't!

10

@4 thanks for the link, I had stopped reading comments b4 ASSHOLE wrote in. He's at @43 and beyond in the original thread. He doesn't sound like an asshole, to me, and perhaps exploited by GF? His "sabotage" was no longer doing his GF's finances, no longer driving her (she didn't drive) for shopping, no longer changing her lightbulbs, and she was mad he was no longer doing "acts of service" or cooking her 4 course meals. Puts his original letter in a whole new light.

11

WCGF self-identifies as bisexual, but doesn’t refer to this when describing his efforts to convince his wife to indulge his cuckold fetish. I wonder if pitching this as a threesome, and doing the legwork to find a hot bi-guy (with her sign off and approval), might lead to her enthusiastically fucking someone else with his participation. It’s possible that she’s less interested in the performative aspect of a cuckold scene, but might be open to taking a lover together.

It is a very bad idea for him to post a profile for her without her permission, even with her face obscured.

12

Dan, as usual, you nailed it with ASSHOLE. He's a coward and worse. One thing that stood out and I've read some of the comments on this LW but not sure if anyone mentioned it. But omg his blatant misogyny. The part where he says "I prefer the relationships I've had that ended with hatred," because when they are nice about the break up he still loves them and feels sad. He even said he didn't want to be a great guy i.e. a decent human. Wow! just wow. To me, all this says, he prefers to hate women and for them to hate him. He needs to do women a favor and not date anyone ever.

13

@10 delta35
Ok, now I've looked at that @43 which does make it sound like his GF deserves criticism. But I wouldn't go there, and now (hoping WhatIf isn't on this thread too,) I'll say I don't consider a (in his own words) "asshole" a reliable narrator.

Yeah, maybe their relationship really was asymmetrical, but I don't believe in believing assholes when I have only one side of the story. But even if I wasn't strongly averse to believing unreliable narrators, I wouldn't want to send someone who (as he stated) plans to become a better person, any messages that detract from his motivation to do so. Compared to that, while interesting, I don't think the tangent about his GF's imagined exploitation is useful (even if I thought it likely to be true).

14

WGGF has been married for 9 months and according to his timeline, the sex--it sounds like all and any kind of sex--started falling off during the wedding planning, say 18 months ago (maybe less). It picked back up and slowed down again while they looked for a house. It sounds to me as if the fact that the husband is bi and that he wants to be cuckolded are red herrings in an otherwise mundane now-that-we're-married-the-sex-has-started-to-fade-away situation. Add to it that they've been a couple for 5 years, and the fact that many women start losing sexual attraction to their mates after 4 or so years, and this is a straightforward story of marital unhappiness.

Or not. Maybe the wife never really meant it when she said years ago, that she was interested in cuckolding. Maybe she meant it in theory, but putting an ad up and trawling for a bull sounds distasteful to her or tacky--she just wants it to happen spontaneously, or she wants to know and trust the other man before having sex with him.

The only way for the lw to know what's going on is to have a direct conversation with her. When they're not tired, or pressed for time or already frustrated. And the conversation shouldn't start with, "when will you be ready to cuckold me?" or "when can we put an ad up?" or "do you want to try that cucking thing this weekend?" or "were you lying to me when you said before that you wanted to try cuckolding?"

People on this forum often talk about bait-and-switch, and in his answer to this letter Dan said, "some people mean it when they say, "We can have threesomes/go to BDSM parties/try cuckolding once our relationship is solid." But some people don't mean it. They tell their kinky and/or nonmonogamous partner what they want to hear in the hopes that after the wedding and the house and the kids, their husband and the father of their children (or their wife and the mother of their children) isn't going to leave them over something as "trivial" as a threesome, a public spanking, or cuckolding." He followed that by saying, "Complicating matters further, some people say it and mean it and then change their mind," but the gist of the message was that people misrepresent themselves to get what they want, including allowing themselves to seem more kinky or sexually adventurous than they really are. And certainly that's possible and even occasionally true. But it's an extremely ungenerous attitude to take and it leads to statements like the one made @ 6: "Did you get it in writing? No not the marriage, her saying she’s up for it." Now, maybe LavaGirl was being snide, as the rest of her comment pointed out that the lw isn't thinking of what he's really asking of his wife, but plenty of people in the SavageLove universe take this attitude.

Sometimes something sexual sounds fun and interesting when you're really aroused, when you're in the moment, but afterwards, it doesn't sound so interesting or like something you'd really want to do. Dan talks about that in the context of men who want to taste their own semen--or who say they do, right up until a second after they come, at which point, it no longer appeals to them. He, and others here, are very sympathetic to the way that arousal disrupts people's natural or default squeamishness. But when it comes to asking another person, usually a woman, to do something that they might find either uninteresting ordinarily or downright off-putting, and that person seems more enthusiastic in the heat of the moment and cools down where it's concerned when they're not all cranked up, then the commentariat is all "BAIT AND SWITCH!" "BUT SHE (OR HE) PROMISED!" I think it's always more nuanced than that.

15

Thanks, Calliope @9, and welcome back!

He/she @11, yes, good call. Threesome might be an easier sell than cuckolding. WCGF, you're willing to suck cock in front of your wife if that turns HER on, right?

MsGalaxy @12, ASSHOLE checked into the comments and said, among other things, that he is recently divorced, which renders him justifiably bitter and confused rather than a woman-hater who shouldn't date anyone ever.

Nocute @14, very good point that if WCGF is asking his wife in the heat of passion, when she's turned on, whether she wants to fuck another dude and she's saying "yes, oh yes!" then this might just be dirty talk for her. In the cold light of day the idea of banging some random bull does not appeal. So, yes, they need to have a conversation when they're fully clothed at the kitchen table. And he needs to realise that this is a big ask for women who aren't naturally into the idea, as it sounds like Mrs WCGF isn't, so he needs to make the deal as sweet as possible -for her- since after all, he is asking her to put some dude's cock into her vagina. She needs to want to do this for herself, not just for him -- so what are -her- needs and desires in a special guest star?

16

Ms Cute - I think in part it's a variation on the Auditioner's Conundrum. It may likely affect more women than men. Whenever asked if one can X, always say yes, as it might never be necessary to prove it and if it is one may be able to learn in advance.

I'm reminded of the dinner at Uppercross when Captain Wentworth points out that all he can say when married people tell him he'll think differently once he's married himself is that he shan't, and then they can only assert that he shall, and that's the end of the matter.

Then there's the angle that we almost all go in for some degree of misrepresentation and it's just a question of where one draws the line. If the point of the exercise were to decide what W1 was really thinking when she agreed, then one might look to see whether she follows the same sort of pattern in other matters. I'm getting a faint vibration that LW has a thing about not wanting to see himself as pushing in more areas than just this, and it wouldn't surprise me if that turned out to have an influence on the relationship dynamics.

One could perhaps say that the takeaway is Kinks First, Marriage After - although, even then, that would just seem to open the door to any of a number of variations on Some Change After Marriage.

17

I'm confused about the cuckold letter. He says "Fast-forward a couple of years, and we are in a healthy relationship, living together, regularly visiting sex clubs (though playing only with each other), and beginning to add some cuckold dirty talk to our sex play."

Then, life happens -- and "sex and experimentation were set aside."

Now, "life has settled down," -- but we don't hear if they're having sex again. Is their entire sex interaction restricted to him now suggesting she fuck other men? If so, that's a huge problem. Someone already nervous about fucking other men is not going to want that as a substitute for marital sex.

My advice:
1) Get a vasectomy or use condoms or do whatever else you need to not get her pregnant, until you get more clarity about your sexual compatibility.
2) Start having more sex! About half the time, make it whatever flavor she enjoys best, and about half the time, share dirty talk about your cuckolding fantasies. See how that goes.
3) If that goes well, make time to go back to sex clubs. (In other words, restore your kinky interactions to where they were before you got engaged.)
4) If she has fun at the sex clubs, then BiDanFan's advice @7 is good -- encourage her to flirt with and eventually fuck some men at the sex clubs.
5) Evaluate how hard it was to bring her along with you, and how strong the marriage is on other fronts, before you ever consider having children with her.

18

EricaP @ 17 - "Get a vasectomy"

According to the NHS website (https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception/vasectomy-reversal-nhs/):

"It's estimated that the success rate of a vasectomy reversal is: 75% if you have your vasectomy reversed within 3 years. up to 55% after 3 to 8 years. between 40% and 45% after 9 to 14 years."

So that may not be the best method to use in their precise situation. Successful reversal is not a given.

19

@Ricardo - it depends how important having kids is to him. If he definitely wants kids, then condoms are a better option, agreed.

20

I'm ideologically opposed to marriage, and both these letters make me think I'm dodging a bullet.

21

There’s music in the air, a song being sung...and sure sounds like a tune I’ve heard before.

WGCF wants his wife to cuckold him!!! Yay!!! But other than bring up the topic now and again, he hasn’t lifted a finger to DO anything himself!!! Boo!!! From what he said and Dan’s response, WGCF has not asked his wife for permission to put up a profile for her, or written a profile and had her review it, or made arrangements for a guest star for clothes-on fun (foot massage or something like that), or anything else that is him using his agency as a grown adult to do the work that’s necessary to make his dick happy. Instead, he bothers Dan and talks about cucking with his wife, and brings it up later, and lather rinse repeat.

So basically, he’s waiting for his wife to do the work. It’s time-consuming and can be anywhere from annoying to downright creepy just to sort through the men on offer, and THEN she has to arrange to meet them and see if they’re worth the effort/likely to be a good lay and and and...

WGCF might want to slow his roll, think about what his wife might get out of this, or what would sweeten the deal enough to overcome all the burdens of her time, attention, physical risk, and social risk that he’s waiting on her to do. And then, after he’s asked and LISTENED TO HER about it, use his agency to do the work himself.

22

@1 WA-HOOOOOO!!!! Big congrats to DonnyKlicious for scoring this week's "FIRDT" Award and getting the comment thread rolling. Bask in the glory.:)

23

It just sounds like “do all the work and take on all the physical risk, including of STIs that could compromise future childbearing, to amuse me.” Is he pulling his weight as a partner?-how about he does the things that are tiring out his wife (housework, home repairs, cooking, grocery shopping, walking the dog?) to give her the time and energy to meet his sexual needs. Resenting your partner for being deadweight doesn’t lead to a lot of sexual experimentation. Not saying this is necessarily the case but it’s the experience of most women of my acquaintance. Not to mention maybe the guys she was with were less than stellar and she is either not interested or maybe dealing with trauma. Even just the fact that women are socialized to have less sex partners could be affecting her interest. Also randoms aren’t for everyone. Would letter writer be mad if she had sex with someone she liked and had an attachment to? It sounds like it needs to be 100% less about him when she’s the person whose consent and interest is needed.
This just feels unreasonable to me. Also buying a house is a stressful pain, and I was excited to do it!

24

Wait--wasn't ASSHOLE's letter to Dan discussed last week in SLOTTD?

@21 slinky and @23 Eternal optimist: Agreed and seconded regarding WGCF's situation.

25

@2. Sportlandia. Sure. Make the profiles but don't put them up without her permission. Better, start the conversation in earnest first. Say you really want it and, to bring this home, come out with the skeleton profile you've made, adding that you're sure she could do better.

@9. Calliope. I'm pleased you can joke about your anxiety and sexual inexperience. When (or if) you do start to have sex, one of the parameters of the partner you choose, as an inexperienced person yourself, will be how experienced they are. I say this hoping, and in the presumption, that you can exercise as much choice as possible (just as you would be able to go for eg the really tall, the really sporty, the really introspective guy). There need be no assumption that you'll hook up with someone equally inexperienced--which was another ground I had from demurring at Bi's clearly well-meant joke.

@11. He/She. Yes--helpful that it could be refrained as a threesome.

@14. Nocute. There are no grounds to me for saying his wife has baited-and-switched him here. But if she doesn't want to go ahead with the cucking, she will have more and more reason not to--say, when kids come along. So the time for him to put it on the table is now.

I'm not sure I see the couple's sex life falling off in the way you do. When he says they got busy ... with wedding planning, he just means, I think, that they continued to put his plans to experiment with cucking on hold.

@17. Erica. Ah, I understand Nocute's view more now. Yes, it's a huge problem if their main form of sex, or way of discussing sex, is his hoping she'll cuck him with other men. Of course it would make sense for him to say, 'well, is there any guy from the sex club you'd like to know better?', rather than preemptively setting her up with a restrictive / prescriptive Web profile.

@21. slinky. I would have thought that fucking exhibitionistically in sex clubs is a step on the way to cucking in his mind.

@22. Eternal optimist. 'He doesn't 'walk the dog' ' is your projection. Yes, he should walk the dog; but it's a separate issue. She didn't say 'no' or 'never' to cucking, which is why the problem's before them now.

If 'let's firm up the relationship first' means, to her, 'when we marry, the rationale for your cuck thing will fall away' and 'I'll marry you so that you'll cuck' to him, they have a huge problem. They should see right now if this is where they are.

26

EricaP @17 et al: I did not read the references to "sex and experimentation were set aside" and "sex took a back seat" as "we aren't having sex," but as the sex was not a priority and became vanilla and routine. We're both stressed and tired so it's wham, bam, thank you ma'am; fantasies involve a full night's sleep, not cucking or any other kink. I think if the problem was they aren't having sex, he'd be focusing on that, not that the cucking appears to have been postponed indefinitely.

Harriet @25, I agree that there may be a disconnect between his mindset of "once the relationship is more solid, we can explore this kink" and her (possible) mindset of "now that we are married, I don't want to fuck anyone else." I'm inclined to agree that the time to explore kinks is before the wedding.
As for "pushing for profiles," I don't think he should start by making one. How about he finds the sites where bulls and cucks seek each other, starts cruising profiles and sending Mrs WCGF links to guys she might find hot? That could provide the incentive she needs to create a profile of their own.

27

Calliope, thank you for pointing us back at your wonderful recap of last week's discussion. Hugs to you!

28

Griz is under a little excess red, red wine from watching Bless the Beasts and Children (1971 twice). It's a long story.

29

Griz is also ready to kick every Trump turd squarely in the nuts tonight. And I hope it HURTS!

30

Holy fucking SHIT----Griz needs to drink more! Notice the lack of typos, everyone? Who knew that alcohol would be a good proofreader?

31

Me @26, ah, it has struck me that on these apps/sites it may be necessary to create a profile of one's own before cruising others'. In that case then yes, he'll have to make a profile BUT it should be as bare bones as possible and not include her, and no indication that he is actively looking.

32

LW, you have been with your now wife for five years. She didn’t reject you when you told her what your kink is, yet she has never acted it out for you. Then you two got married.
Blind Freddie could see she wasn’t/ isn’t into it, not for herself. I don’t suggest she lied, because she’s engaged with dirty talk with you about it and you’ve visited sex clubs. She’s open to fringe aspects of your kink.
A very solid and real conversation needs to be had. You let this all slide for five long years. Married her, bought a home together.. so you are as caught in this little mascarade as she is.

33

Ms Lava - "Mascarade" is rather good. It reminds me of Sir Walter Elliot's comment that if Lady Russell would only wear rouge she would not be afraid of being seen. It's tempting to go back a couple of centuries and imagine the discussion in whatever the equivalent of this column would have been about whether rouge constituted a "bait and switch". With luck, the bar will continue to rise for the next two hundred years.

Ms Grizelda - I have such vague recollections of that - am I right that Ms Carpenter sang the theme song?

34

BiDanFan @27 "I think if the problem was they aren't having sex, he'd be focusing on that, not that the cucking appears to have been postponed indefinitely."

Depends how strong his fetish is. I'm concerned that he may not be interested in sex with his wife at all.

That's why I recommended rebooting the dirty talk about cucking, while they have sex, some of the time. (Plus not getting her pregnant.)

I think starting by proposing possible bulls is putting the cart (his fantasy) before the horse (her gameness).

35

Oh, that was supposed to be BDF @26

36

Ms Muse - As a former portrayer of Sister Mary Ignatius, I must correct you on one point in your lengthy comment on the previous column. You stated that your having children, given your virginal status, would have to be immaculate conception. But, as SMI herself explains to the audience during the play, that is a common mistake (even among those raised RC, so that there would be no reason to expect non-Catholics to know). Immaculate Conception refers to Mary herself being without Original Sin. What you describe is her Virgin Birth.

Feel free to apply Holmes-Sun-Earth and forget this immediately, but you might be glad of the accurate terminology (or is this another front for the Descriptionist Wars?), and anyway I thank you for letting me relive one of my favourite moments on stage.

37

Venn @ 36 - But isn't the original sin "eating from the tree of knowledge"? So by "immaculate conception", the catholic church has meant all along that she was just ignorant and merely misled into thinking it was god she was having sex with?

On a side note, are catholics aware that I.C. has only been part of the dogma since 1854? I guess it wasn't that important to begin with.

38

oops - Descriptivist, not Descriptionist.

Mr Ricardo - I could say that apparently that's where it originated and then got passed on to everyone except Mary at conception, but I'd feel like Susan Dey giving legal advice.

39

@25 in that any response to a scenario involves a degree of projection, sure.
I think husband comes across as an entitled brat and very typically gender imbalance is part of bratty and entitled behavior in hetero relationships. There’s a whole new oxfam study on the topic right now, even. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/01/23/us/unpaid-work-economy-davos.amp.html
Marriage is the typical framework by which heterosexual people fall into predictable and unfair gender roles. Time for some tough conversations.

40

Yes Mr Venn @33, I’ve just watched the P&P series, with Colin Firth in it. Darcy moved heaven and earth to ensure a marriage, because Lydia was off shagging what’s his name. How our cultural standards have shifted.
No, I didn’t know that Ricardo, @37. You mean they made stuff up as they went along?
Unlike my sisters, I’d been to a secular primary school for the first few years, so when I hit the nuns it was weirdo land from day one.
I thought original sin was because Eve tempted Adam, and then somehow we all copped the blame. Always hated that idea, being born a sinner seemed like one had no chance from the get go.
To be expected Eternal Optimist @39, that Herero marriages still have gender role inequality.
Here it feels to me, they sort of ensnared each other. He was happy as that she didn’t dump him first up, so did she really ever promise to act his kink out fully, or did he imagine that.
What was she up to, sort of maybe yes ok let’s do it sometime, did she hope his kink would fly away in time.
Given he’s been so lax insisting on it or he’d walk, how strong a kink is it. By marrying and buying a house, splitting up now is going to be a whole lot harder. Let’s hope he doesn’t try coercive tactics on her now they are so locked in with each other.

41

Though EO@39, my daughter and her partner split the work load equally and given the ‘whole’ family is living with me at present, (on our little bit of land in her brother’s shed; lucky he’s in England/Europe or no doubt he’d be heading here too) so I see close up how they conduct their roles. The whole family includes two children all of the time, one is hers with a former partner,
( he’s a good dad) the other is theirs together, then another three, his from his marriage, every other weekend.
I did warn my daughter, don’t go there big julie, many times. They are solid though, and I never hear them argue. Then she saw my push back against role-d behaviour thru out her childhood, where her father was expected to do half the work with me. That did involve much arguing, so I’m glad she found a man who accepts his work, and sees how he’s brought it on himself.

42

@25 clarification - I wasn't presuming these profiles would have like, her face/body and address right there, more of just like "i did the legwork, all you have to do is follow through". I suspect her willingness to engage in sexual escapades would increase if the mental effort to set it up were decreased.

43

The area is sexuality is different, and nobody bar the two/ or more involved knows how that goes.
This man sounds entitled and manipulative. He’s pissed Dan off by emailing him half a dozen times, manipulating by being insistent, and getting what he wants. Bart Simpson style.
LW, no don’t go doing up any profiles, how imposing of you. Back up a bit, and see what the truth is. Your wife is not really into your kink, except in some general, I respect your kink way. At least that’s what her behaviour points to, even if her words have been more ambiguous.
Yes, bring up the topic and insist on having a decent conversation about it. Where you ASK her, if deep down she is interested, aroused by, acting out your kink, or not.
You have no leverage here, really. Much as you’ve convinced yourself you have. She’s shown you what she’s really up for, yet you powered on asking her to marry you, investing in a home together.
Let’s guess her answer is, no. Given her behaviour to date, that’s my take. Not really what she wants to do, for herself. This can change, if you cut out the expectation you’ve got her sewn up, or you adapt. Or you break up the marriage and sell the house. You can’t make her do this, and one would hope if you love her, you wouldn’t want to try.

44

Lava @ 40 - "You mean they made stuff up as they went along?"

Everything was made up as they went along. I think they call that "revealed truths" or something similar. You never know when god might strike you with a revelation, do you? So it's very useful for church leaders whenever they feel it's time to change the dogma.

45

For the record, I never said MAKE a profile on a sex site, I said TELL her you’re making a profile on a sex site. Wifey seems to be ignoring you when you ask, “How ‘bout if we do this?” I’m just suggesting a more proactive, immediate voice to get the conversation ball rolling.

46

@33 vennominon: Yes indeed, you are correct and have a good memory. Karen Carpenter sang the theme song for Bless the Beasts and Children, produced and directed by Stanley Kramer, based on Glendon Swarthout's adolescent novel. Although still sad for me to this day to watch (long story about the wild coincidence of actor Barry Robins, who played Cotton---bearing a hauntingly uncanny resemblance to an uncle on my mother's side of the family who committed suicide at age 16; and fatally shot himself with a 12-gauge. The film was available to me at a local store, and I thought that seeing the film again after all these years would help bring me some closure of my family tragedy in 1969---and thankfully it has) and of the story itself, about the abuses of socially awkward teens and endangered animals, I am grateful to have acquired a DVD copy. Some brighter points: Miles Chapin, as (Sam) Shecker, son of comedian Sid Shecker is a goofy crack up when doing impersonations; Bill Mumy, classic TV's Lost in Space kid, KICKS SERIOUS BUTT as rebellious Teft (DON'T call him Laurence!), and as a musician, offers a song in the movie "It's a Beautiful Day". Also noteworthy is the 1971 film's use of Nadia's Theme, that went on to be the TV theme for The Young and the Restless.

47

@46: I have a weird feeling that Bless the Beasts and Children may have had an inadvertent influence on public disclaimers of later and more recent films:
"....any resemblance to actual persons, living or dead is entirely coincidental..."
Rest in peace, Mr. Barry (John) "Cotton" Robins and Uncle Robbie.

48

Sorry to hear about your uncle Grizelda. 1969, the year I finished high school.
All good Donny, @45, at first I thought the LWs wife was a bait and switch, then on closer inspection I think he’s been asleep at the wheel.

49

It does pay to re read letters. So this man is thirty, a kid, and he’s bi. This story gets quierkier. Is that how you spell it.. my phone didn’t complain.
So LW, you get your bi self satisfied by watching men fuck your woman. Not tempted to jump on in there? I think your conversation with your wife needs to be about owning all aspects of your kink. You know, there are women out there who do go for experiences like this, onus is on you to double and triple check. Now what, eh?
Does she like a wee smoke?

50

@48 LavaGirl: Thank you and bless you for your kind words. I do remember 1969.
1969 was a strange year of adjustment for my family, one in several ways of having to start over (cue The Doors' Strange Days). I was only turning 5 that summer, and it seemed like, along with suddenly moving from Washington State's largest city to a small, rural town of unfamiliar people, all my favorite rock groups had disbanded (i.e.: The Beatles and The Monkees, for two; for a while it seemed like only the Beach Boys were still together, recording and touring but they had their troubles, too). In exasperation, I finally asked my older brother (famous back then for calling rock groups that split up or TV shows that got cancelled 'all over') if the Rolling Stones were still around. And I still had public school to face, K-12. And don't get me started on all the now historic TV media coverage and film updates canceling Saturday morning cartoons--Bugs Bunny in particular---all because of the July 20,1969 Moon Walk (the hell with finding Moon Dust! I needed my weekly fill of Cocoa Puffs and Wile E. Coyote, dammit!)..
I believe that 1969 was harder on my older siblings in one way, than for me, though: while I was only starting school for the very first time, they had been abruptly torn from their districts and school friends. They had to adjust to having fewer class and extra-curricular options in a much smaller school. They didn't like the school closest to our house (where I ended up going K-12), and instead enrolled in a bigger high school and middle school in a bigger town eight miles away and out of district (something that basically isn't allowed now, due to zoning laws). My sisters--my oldest sister especially--rebelled something fierce. Debbie, starting high school that fall, willfully bleached her hair with Clorox--not as a fashion statement, but more like, 'Fuck you, Mom and Dad, for moving us out of north Seattle!'
Along with the war in Vietnam, Nixon / Agnew taking over the White House, Civil Rights and Women's Liberation Movements (rock on, Gloria Steinem!), and rising concerns over the environment those were indeed, turbulent times. Our family's household environment was no exception.

51

@26. Bi. Yes, he shouldn't start making profiles for her. I didn't want to come down like a ton of bricks on @2 Sportlandia, when the essence of his suggestion--that it's incumbent on the lw to act, to take the first steps--was right.

@39. Eternal optimist. You say marriage is (sometimes) when men and women starts fully assuming stereotyped gender roles. Well, I'm not sure that these roles feature heavily in cucking? The cuck (to leave aside the bull) seems to be taking leave of a stereotypical male role.

Which words in his letter say 'entitled brat' to you?

@49. Lava. I'm not sure that's the relationship between his bisexuality and his desire to be cucked. (But you could be onto something).

His way of thinking might be, 'well, I'm not acting on being bi for the sake of the marriage; you could at least give me the cucking'.

52

Badly named Optimist @39: There's no evidence here except for their genders that they have fallen into traditional gender roles in their marriage. Flight of fancy. The only brattiness the husband is exhibiting is sending his letter to Dan several times. He laid his kink card on the table early and has been waiting five YEARS to make it happen. That's pretty much the opposite of entitlement. Trollolol.

Donny @45: "For the record, I never said MAKE a profile on a sex site, I said TELL her you’re making a profile on a sex site." So, blackmail and manipulate her? Still terrible advice. How about, send her a link to a sex site and SUGGEST to her that you make a profile?

Harriet @51, people who are bi may have kinks that don't directly involve their own bisexuality. He may like dick, he may like watching his partner get fucked, he may have no need to combine the two.

53

BiDan- He says he has “...suggested making profiles on various websites, but it doesn't happen...” she says OK, but then blows it off, so I think he needs to stop “suggesting” and get her to talk more concretely about it... if she thinks it’s happening perhaps she’ll think, “I’d better deal with this.” FWIW, I’m guessing it’s gonna be a “no”, but this has been occupying LWs thoughts for five years and needs a resolution even if he doesn’t want to be “...the whiny and pushy husband...” He can always fall back to, “ Well, I haven’t done it YET...”

54

@50: The big irony is that I was so fortunate to grow up on a residential beach--then unspoiled and teeming with wildlife: bald eagles, otters, loons, gray harbor seals, and blue herons. We could catch Dungeness crab in front of the house. It proved to be a healthy escape from an otherwise Calvin-and-Hobbes / Kevin McAllister upbringing that only got even better once I acquired my beloved Love Beetle and fellow beach bum. I'll be glad when spring gets here again and my VW and I can hit the beaches.
Okay--enough about Griz's family history.

@45 DonnyKlicious and @52 BiDanFan: I would be hesitant about making a profile for a sex site---but that's just me. I'm equally hesitant about online dating sites, too.

55

Donny @53, he says: "When I bring up my desire to see her with other men, she tells me she's willing, but the conversation quickly ends. I have suggested making profiles on various websites, but it doesn't happen." It takes two people to drop a conversation. "The conversation quickly ends" is passive language; he's not taking responsibility for his role in not continuing the conversation to concrete steps. Again, making profiles "doesn't happen." Profiles don't make themselves. He has suggested making a profile, and what is her response? He needs to press her for a yes or no. So we agree they need to talk more concretely, but we disagree that he can bypass the step of getting a firm answer and leap ahead to doing what he wants to do.

56

And as I said upthread, there are other ways to make this happen besides seeking out randoms on apps. If she doesn't want to seek out randoms on apps, which is quite reasonable, they could discuss other ways to find their bull.

57

Ms Grizelda - I even recall reading the novel, although when you first mentioned the film I wasn't sure it was that novel.

Ms Lava - The tennis is getting interesting. Quite the turnaround for Ms Wang after winning only fifteen points against Ms Williams in their US Open match. After the second set, I kept thinking I'd go to bed once Ms Williams went in front in the third, only she never got a break point. The ball change's coming right at the last game seemed decisive, as Ms Williams was hitting harder in the third set and her serve went away rather as Ms Wang's had in the second.

A mixed day for the Greek crowd, though very nice for Mr Raonic to be the last Canadian standing. Ms Barty won't have to play her doubles partner, nor will we have the match of besties, with both Ms Williams and Ms Wozniacki going down 7-5 in the third set. Very nice of the tournament to arrange Ms Woz's retirement interview with clips from her peers, and good on her for having the humour to call it appropriate that her career should end with a forehand error.

58

BDF @ 52 - "He may like dick, he may like watching his partner get fucked, he may have no need to combine the two"

You are of course totally right, but in this particular situation, wouldn't it make it way more easy to convince his wife to indulge him with the latter if they started with threesomes? He'd be there to guarantee her safety (unless he turns out to be an asshole like BucksFan's BF), and he would get to see her (not just imagine her) get fucked by another guy (on top of that, he'd get to satisfy his own urge for dick). If she enjoys that, she might then be more willing to have sex with other guys without him participating directly, but still there as an onlooker.

As we pretty much all agree, he needs be more proactive about this and take her into consideration, because she's just not there to be used. So I don't see what he has to lose in making a compromise.

59

@51 “when I bring up my desire to see her with other men”
And the conversation quickly ends
I think the LW is aware that it’s HIS desire, mostly. The wife is not comfortable talking to him about how she’s feeling—the conversation quickly ends
And instead of saying “ hey-your silence on this is telling me that you are not interested or okay with this, and that you don’t feel comfortable talking to me-is that right? I want to make sure we are doing things that you consent to and are really into. So can you tell me truly how do you feel about it?”
He’s like, so—when we gonna make those online sex profiles? At least he says he’s not intending to be pushy though. 🙃
That’s entitlement, to me. And that she doesn’t feel comfortable talking to him about it is a big Effin red flag about power imbalance in the relationship

Okay, on to other things!

60

I think WCGF should start with the attitude that the cuckolding is never going to happen. Does that mean he should leave his wife, or would he be happy with some extra-marital sex without his wife? People tend to focus their energy on what interests them. Her wife would have probably already banged another dude if that was high on her priority list.

I think WCGF should change what he asks for. He wants his wife to bang other men. Either she doesn't want that at all, or she doesn't want it as part of a stage-managed production that her husband choreographs. I do think they should talk more, but I think he should instead ask for a more basic open relationship, freeing both of them to play with other partners, separately.

Perhaps he can be the third for a different hotwife / cuckold couple. Would that be enough to scratch his cuckold itch?

He can go play with other guys. Maybe he will meet another bi guy who has the hots for his wife. Maybe his wife will have the hots for the other guy, and they can finally have the cuckolding he wants.

His wife can go play with other people. Maybe she wants to play, but she doesn't want to do it in public at a sex club, and she wants to be fully in-control, as an independent person, not as WCGF's wife. And again, once she has selected somebody she already trusts for one-on-one sex maybe she would be interested in then trying a threesome with her husband.

61

Nobody knows if hes satisfying his bi side via this kink or not. Not sure how one separates what arouses one, into sections.
Waited five years, Fan, did he. My take is he didn’t see who his wife was/ is. Past the dirty talk and having sex with him at sex clubs, she’s never partaken of his kink. Which implies to most thinking adults, that she’s not really interested.
The signs have been there, yet they still married and bought a home together.
I sure hope some of you commenters above don’t think he should force her to do this?
She owes him clarification and honesty, first up.

62

I’m with you Eternal optimist, he is entitled. He thinks this is due him because five years ago his then new gf didn’t dump him when she heard about his kink. She said she respected it. Now all these years later, he feels entitled to pick up that thread. Sorry, he shouldn’t have let it go.
What did she actually say back then, because it’s not clear to me that she promised anything. And if she did, that was five years ago. In the meantime, did he bring it up before the marriage.. did he seek reassurance they were on the same page.
Now he’s calling in the maybe promise, and thinks he’s justified by doing that. This guy is trying to corner this woman, justify putting pressure in her, because some vague promise was made way back. Feels coercive to me and however this is resolved, this attitude he carries needs to change. Hence a convo is needed, and then they both think of ways forward.

63

LW, congratulations on your marriage and purchase of a home. You two have achieved what many only dream of. Marriage is about negotiation over the long term. Anytime my ex husband tried it on with any demanding, entitled, ultimatum type behaviour, I shut down. One doesn’t negotiate with terrorists. So stop being one.
Sex is not something one turns on and off, it’s about arousal.
Instead of wearing your entitled badge, put on your creative one, and think of ways these scenarios might arouse your wife.
Fantasy is one way, both of you inventing them as you have sex. Suggest when she’s having self pleasure, that she use fantasies of you watching, or a three way.
Bottom line LW, this is her call and if it happens, then that needs to come from her honest arousal about a sexual scenario.
Sure, you could bully her with your hand, you’ve managed to con a few people here into barracking for your ‘side.’ But in a good marriage, there are no ‘sides.’ And if you do, bully her, coerce her, then over time she’ll start to lose respect and love for you.

64

Adam @ 60 - "Perhaps he can be the third for a different hotwife / cuckold couple. Would that be enough to scratch his cuckold itch?"

That would make him the bull, so I don't think it would work at all.

65

HEY DAN -- re: "monogamy is natural" NOT. DId you see this?
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/08/190814161837.htm
In difficult times, having multiple husbands can be an advantage
"Marriage in the Pimbwe culture is informal -- defined as sexual partners living together. Accordingly, "divorce is easy, and can be initiated by either partner," as both Borgerhoff Mulder and early 20th century missionary visitors to the area have observed. Both men and women may have more sexual partners than marriage partners, but sexual partnerships are quickly recognized as marriages, researchers said."

66

@ Lavagirl 63: Hear! Hear!

67

An example of any given culture practicing any given form of monogamy or polygyny/polyandry/polygynandry/promiscuity/whatever doesn't prove whether any such thing is natural or unnatural (polygyny: males mate with multiple females; polyandry: females mate with multiple males; polygynandry: both males and females have multiple partners; promiscuity: mating with no pair bonds formed). The truth is that there are different evolutionary selective pressures that favor each strategy (monogamy helps prevent loss of paternity and gives females more access to their males' resources since resources aren't divided among multiple mates, polygyny maximizes male fitness by allowing the male to mate with multiple females, polyandry provides females with more genetically diverse offspring and the opportunity to gain resources from multiple mates, and so on). (Also, "natural" isn't all it's cracked up to be -- male-female sexual coercion is perfectly natural from some evolutionary perspectives, but that doesn't make it good or okay at all!)

And that's not even getting into the selective pressures that lead to seemingly counterintuitive phenomena like homosexuality (for a speculative but well-argued perspective on possible evolutionary origins -- and benefits! -- of bi- and homosexuality, I recommend Chapter 11, "The Queering of Homo sapiens," from Richard Prum's book The Evolution of Beauty: How Darwin's Forgotten Theory of Mate Choice Shapes the Animal World - and Us; actually, I just recommend that book to everyone because it's amazing). That's also not even getting into the difference between social monogamy and sexual monogamy and the different pressures that favor each of those strategies.

The evolution of mating strategies in any animal is incredibly complex, and this is especially true for humans because we're the most socially complicated animal that's ever existed and we've ritualized basically everything about sex, making it about so much more than just male-female mating. My personal hypothesis is that humans have evolved to be capable of multiple mate selection and pair bonding strategies because diversity is often an evolutionary advantage that allows adaptation under pressure. There are evolutionary pressures under which sexually or socially monogamous pairs might thrive, and pressures under which non-monogamous arrangements are most beneficial. Humans continue to experience both sets of pressures, so multiple strategies persist. Individual humans can prefer or exclusively be able to engage in many different mating arrangements and can often acclimate to more than one strategy in the course of a lifetime -- and this diversity and flexibility is, in my view, an advantage for the species.

68

Sorry about the novel above. I get excited about evolution.

69

And The Evolution of Beauty really is an amazing book for anyone interested in sexual selection, zoology, or evolution in general.

70

Does anyone remember the letter from OWE a few months ago, where the wife was asking whether she - in fact - owed her husband something that she had no interest in (can't remember whether it was cucking or hotwifing, but definitely having sex with other men). She sounded miserable (to me).

Sure, there are differences between this letter and hers. It's the husband writing in and he says his mate had expressed an interest before they were married. But, considering that it's the wife who has to CONTINUE putting herself out there, I wondered whether they might not be able to combine fantasy with a little role-playing - as long as they can both suspend disbelief. Let's say once or twice a month, she gets dressed up, pretends she's going to meet her girlfriends but keeps dropping hints that indicate she's meeting a man for sex. She goes out for the evening and actually meets her GFs before coming home, her clothes a little askew, her makeup mussed, and smelling of sex. Not with any strangers, but perhaps a quickie solo session in the washroom. Then they can both get off on her revealing that she actually went out to fuck a guy, describing - even boasting - of how virile he had been, yadda yadda. She can spin the yarn as much as needed.

The best part? If he's never sure whether she did fuck or not. I think that might satisfy HIS kink without requiring HER to actually do it. It may be the compromise they can both live with.

71

@57 vennominon: Yes--Glendon Swarthout wrote the book in 1970. For me it was required reading in high school. A very emotionally moving story.
@69 CalliopeMuse: WA-HOOOOO!!!!! Big Congrats on scoring this week's Lucky @69 Award! Savor the tasty, much-envied decadence. :)

72

Ricardo @58: "in this particular situation, wouldn't it make it way more easy to convince his wife to indulge him with the latter if they started with threesomes?" Potentially, and I said as much @15. That's IF she's the kind of gal who likes watching two men together. Perplexingly, some women aren't into this.

Optimist @59: I agree that her reticence to continue the conversation is a big hint that she doesn't want to actually do it. But he needs to person up and ask the question in a more concrete way, and she needs to person up and tell him that she's fine with the idea as fantasy talk but doesn't want to do it in real life (if that's the case). Or that she's willing to do it but only with someone who catches her eye organically rather than forcing it by joining an app, or whatever her true thoughts on the matter are. The way things stand now, nobody is saying anything definitive. And that needs to change so he can make a decision based on reality, rather than on his own dickful thinking.

Lava @62, he IS entitled to pick up the thread, and he is entitled to a straight answer from her. Of course that answer can be no, but as it stands now she's teasing him with these yes-in-theory answers when she knows that he really wants to make it happen. If her answer is no, she needs to say so. He does deserve that.

74

Congrats to Calliope on the magic number!

75

Hunter @73, not necessarily. Lots of LWs state that they are bi just by way of introduction, when this fact has nothing to do with the issue at hand. I think we have to take him at face value when he says what he really wants is to watch his wife get banged by another guy. I agree that she seems to have no interest in doing so.

76

I just want to share something I learned recently.

In 1988, an emergency room doctor encountered a puzzling case: a 60 year old man had been hiccuping approximately every 2 seconds for three days straight. The doctor tried all the usual things doctors try for "intractable hiccups" -- making the patient gag, pulling on his tongue, pressing on his eyeballs, massaging his sinuses -- but nothing made the hiccups stop. Some background: all these cures, as well as everyday ones like chugging water, holding your breath, and getting scared, work by stimulating the vagus nerve. This cures hiccups because misfirings of the vagus nerve cause the diaphragm to contract and are what cause hiccups in the first place. Thus, stimulating the vagus nerve enough forces it to kind of reboot and stop triggering hiccups.

The emergency room doctor knew this, and he also knew another way to stimulate the vagus nerve: digital rectal massage. That's exactly what it sounds like -- sticking a finger up the hiccuper's butt and rubbing their anus. So the doctor stuck his finger up the patient's butt, rubbed a little bit, and the hiccups stopped! He published a short case study in Annals of Emergency Medicine entitled "Termination of Intractable Hiccups with Digital Rectal Massage," forever emblazoning this hiccup cure in the medical literature. In 1990, an Israeli doctor successfully tried the same technique and published his own case study with the same title in the Journal of Internal Medicine.

In 2006, both doctors shared the Ig Nobel prize in medicine for this pioneering treatment. However, the original inventor of the technique said in his acceptance speech that he had since discovered an even better method of curing intractable hiccups: “An orgasm results in incredible stimulation of the vagus nerve. From now on, I will be recommending sex – culminating with orgasm – as the cure-all for intractable hiccups.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3395000
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2299306
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn10207-ig-nobel-prizes-hail-digital-rectal-massage/

So the next time you can't get rid of the hiccups, you now have two new cures to add to your toolbox.

77

I just told my father about this incredible medical research, and he told me to take that information and stick it up my ass. >_<

78

@59. Eternal Optimist. Your attitude, to me, is why people allege a 'bait-and-switch' in cases like the lw's wife. It was their shared presumption she was going later to explore--at least--hotwifing before they married. It was in part, it seems, the presumption that led him into marriage. The onus is thoroughly on him, of course, to take the lead in making it possible for her--and taking stock if she's quite averse.

Of course we only have it on /his/ authority that it was always their agreed plan they'd explore this. It's possible that, to begin with, she decently declined to shame him for his imagination, and has never enthusiastically entered into his kink.

I've read variants on this before: 'she promised to do this down the line; it's now down the line; she's not doing it'. One wrinkle in this instance that maybe provides grounds for hope is that they go to sex clubs. Now, I have no idea whether this is something he's induced her into--that would be the stereotype, but stereotypes are invidious and frequently wrong--but their going at least indicates a spirit of adventurousness on her part and possibly willingness to experiment. Rather than getting het up and going into his own world in the possibly sterile or fictive task of writing a profile, he should encourage her to consider thirds from the guys they see or interact with in the club nights.

@49. Bi. This is what I was trying to say--but you put it in more definitively general terms.

79

@62, @62, and @63 LavaGirl: Please forgive my long-winded response (@50) to your really sweet comment @48. I am hoping that the fires in Australia will extinguish soon. Is everything still all right for you and your family in Queensland? I've got to send you a CD.
These past few days of reflection for me have been really emotional, and I wish the impeachment trial would result soon with the entire Trumpty Dumpty / Dencey Pencey Evil Empire raked over hot coals and fed to sewer rats. I knew that buying copies of today's local and regional papers was a mistake, even though my primary reason was for the funnies and puzzles. Damned glaring headlines.
I need to go back to watching comedies, too, for a while and give the serious tearjerkers a rest. I saw Thelma & Louise again for the zillionth time (Brad at 28 is so HOT!!), and The Witches of Eastwick, last night. Maybe Good Morning, Vietnam! or City Slickers tonight.
I am starting a new fully orchestrated project---this time, a musical comedy. It's what I need. More later as I progress beyond brainstorming into research and development for the script and song lyrics as well as instrumental parts.

80

@79: Awwwww....!@#$! Make that @61, @62, and @63 LavaGirl:.......my mind gets ahead of my typing fingers. Anyway, Lava, sending big hugs, positrons, and VW beeps your way.

81

Dan, Lava, BiDanFan, Ricardo, nocutename, CalliopeMuse, delta35, sb53, and everybody: thank you and bless you all for putting up with this crazy lady.

82

Did I mention that I'm entering menopause?

83

Calliope @76, thanks for sharing! I've always found drinking water from the opposite side of the glass works, but now I know what to do on those rare occasions it doesn't. And your father sounds like a hoot.

Harriet @78, comment #49 wasn't mine, can you clarify which comment you're replying to?

84

Ms Lava - I did see this morning from the tournament site that the Open has raised $5.6 million and counting.

I hope Australia Day helped lift the spirit of the country. I didn't get to see whether Mr Cahill got any of his colleagues to eat vegemite on air this year (always a highlight), but then I retired early, after Ms Kvitová's win.

Plenty of good matches today/this evening, in which I'd enjoy seeing either player win. Tomorrow, interestingly enough, I'll have a big preference in all four matches.

85

Calliope, thanks for mentioning the Rick Prum book. He used to work in the department down the hall here before he set off for Yale (back when he was working on the source of the color of bluebirds). If you liked Prum's musings on evolution, a similar book with a humorous take is by evolutionary biologist Olivia Judson, "Dr. Tatiana's Sex Advice to All Creation" - essentially describing the many variations of sex in the animal kingdom as if the species were writing in to Dan Savage ("Help! My partner has been riding me for 6 months and he won't pull out!" by a stickbug). It's a hoot, and good at understanding evolutionary pressures on sex, the most rapidly evolving aspect of species.

86

@83. Bi. It was your comment @52, where you said that his bisexuality (as an orientation) need not enter into his cucking (or other kinks).

/break/
When she agrees 'she's willing' to have sex with other men, maybe--rather than letting the conversation peter out--he should ask whether she wants to find a guy through a profile or at one of their club nights. There are plenty of hot things they could do at the sex club playing with a third that stop short of her cucking him, but which will accustom her to it and normalise the idea in her mind--her kissing another guy, fondling another guy, fondling him while kissing him.... They could experiment with an element of fake surreptitiousness to see whether this is part of their cucking kink.

87

If she's squeamish about profiles, or worried that something like BucksFan's experience will happen to her, a sex worker is another option. See what the world has lost by banning Craigslist personals.

89

But Elisa, he's not able to cast a spell to enable you to speak decent English?

90

@88 That's the first spam I've seen here in a while. The bots must have been on vacation.

91

curious@89~ Everyone knows that the very best SpellCasters are so busy saving marriages and making penises shrink (or enlarge depending on if you sign up for white or black magic...I'll leave it to you to figure out which does what) that they don't have time to learn how to speak properly. Also, if we have learned anything from "The Last Skywalker" it is that using that kind of juju completely wipes you out. Poor Elisa probably only has 1/10th of her brain left. We're lucky she was able to post at all.

92

@91 DonnyKlicious
"Elisa probably only has 1/10th of her brain left. We're lucky she was able to post at all."

ROTFLMAO. Thank goodness for Donny!

93

The wife isn't actually into it, she just didn't want to risk breaking up with the guy by saying "no, I don't want to fuck other men for your amusement."

He needs to see a shrink about the insecurity he's masquerading as a kink before he drives his wife away.

94

Is anyone up for the Big Hunsky this week?

95

Coming back to EricaP @34, if the situation is that she married a guy who won't put out for her unless it's in a cucking scenario and has therefore been withholding sex for five years, I suppose that's possible, but it would mean that both of them have far bigger problems than failure to communicate about kinks.

Scarlet @93, yes to paragraph one, LMB to paragraph two. (Venn, is LMB an appropriate reaction to sex negativity in this column, or do we need a new term? A Raindrop Award possibly?)

96

Ms Fan - I see where you're coming from, but I think anything that sets off the desire to pay that particular tribute, particularly all over the perpetrator's best, favourite and most expensive shoes/outfit, justifies an LMB.

97

Ms Lava - My tennis coverage has been slashed the last two evenings, as ESPN has been scrambling to cover the death of Mr Bryant. That Mrs Court was given a muted celebration to commemorate her Grand Slam golden anniversary while various statements were released noting responses to her recent stances seemed about right, but I've just read that Mr McEnroe and Ms Navratilova staged a protest the next day that seems to have gone too far and ceded the moral high ground.

98

Ms Fan - Hilariously, I just started listening to the podcast and heard Mr Savage's opening in which he gleefully implied that a major homophobe in the Minnesota state legislature had been dropping rather clear hints. Normally I can let it go with a mental lecture about its being a bad tactic and opening the door for objectionable accusations, but that sort of glee can induce LMB.

100

CalliopeM @76

Frankly, I wouldn't trust an unconventional cure for the hiccups from so-called medical experts who don't know a colon from an anus!

As for using orgasms as an instant cure … well, you can't exactly do that in public (unless you're doing a remake of "When Harry Met Sally"), while a spoonful of sugar will do the trick much more quickly and discreetly. Apparently, this old wives' European cure works on the principle of easing something that creates friction against the spasms.

101

@100 Helenka (also a Canuck): WA-HOOOOO!!!!!! Congrats for scoring this week's Big Hunsky before the January 28th Savage Love weekly edition! Savor the riches. :)

102

msgalaxy @ 12

I’m the ASSHOLE LW2, late to the game here. I didn’t even know my letter was printed! I just have to defend myself a little for your comment:

“But omg his blatant misogyny. The part where he says "I prefer the relationships I've had that ended with hatred,"”

When my wife left me, I was devastated. I couldn’t understand it. Then, when I found out she had been sleeping with her coworker for 6 months behind my back, it was a release for me. That made me angry instead of distraught, and I could move on. I could date again. Instead of wallowing and questioning.

I wrote to Dan for advice because it didn’t feel right. And thanks to Dan and the commenters I realized I was being an asshole, I’m so glad he made that acronym for me. My perspective was horribly selfish and hurtful.

I apologized and tried to explain to her after everyone’s advice. It doesn’t undo my actions but I hope it at least makes her be able to trust future partners.

I’m not a misogynist, I’m just broken.

103

@102 WhatIf: Thank you for joining us, however late in the comment thread.