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Wonder if this schlubby spirit lesbian will be perceived the same as the demi-gender husband? Seems like the same deal to me, fetishizing queer women.

Arielle Scarcella is not a reliable source for topics related to gender identity. Just because someone is popular and has opinions on trans issues does not mean she is well informed. When it comes to questions about nonbinary or genderqueer people, why not ask one of them to respond?

@1 DC270: WA-HOOOOOO!!!! Congratulations on scoring the "FIRDT" comment in this week's Savage Love column, The Girls, and starting us off! Savor the envied glory. :)

@2 yeah that reads really TERFy. Yes, it sounds like this specific person is a guy cruising for queer women but that’s not always the case.

DC270 @1: Nah, the other LW is a married... man? Not-man? Whatever who just feels like re-defining his identity a little. Unusual, sure, but at the end of the day he just wants to be himself. The dude in this letter wants to go out and bang lesbians. When trying to decide if someone's acting in bad faith, look at what they stand to gain.

If the guydyke seemed familiar with queer people and queer spaces, I would figure he was intersex or AFAB, and had spent time being seen as a lesbian before taking testosterone and now looking like a cis het guy.

If he seemed to have been raised with a lot of unexamined male privilege, I would see his "guydyke" label differently.

Either way, you don't need to get to know him better if you don't like his attitude. And if you're not getting to know him better, then what does it matter if he's straight or not?

Dan the Man: As a cis female with a D / DD cup size, I wish I could have the temporary chicken cutlet option, like BOOBS and those like him!
@BOOBS: Be careful of what you wish for. Having and /or acquiring a cup size of DD and bigger can, over time, bring on chronic back problems. I guess the grass is always greener over the septic tank (like Erma Bombeck said, in her book).

Whether or not the "guydyke" is on the up-and-up is not really relevant. What does a white, cis, masc-presenting man who's said he is queer (but only attracted to women) have to offer to the (possibly queer) women he's contacting with this concoction?

Does he at least own a pair of "chicken cutlets"?

Who else is old enough to remember the archetype of the sensitive 80's guy who swears that he's a lesbian trapped in a man's body? I'm impressed that we see it so rarely in today's world where gender issues are so such a hot topic, but "rare" does not mean "never". We shouldn't treat those types any differently today than we did back then.

@7: We all have times when we wish that things were different about our bodies, often just out of sheer curiosity what it would be like. Until we have computer simulations good enough to let us test those things out digitally, I won't begrudge people for wanting to try different things. I just wish you could have an easy take-away option as easy as stuffing chicken into a bra.

I agree that TBE needs to take it slooooooow. The boyfriend has just opened Pandora's Box, and who knows where this is going. He likes being pegged, and wants to be "the girl"... there's a whole lot more exploring to do.

TBE sounds GGG, but she and her boyfriend needs to remember that the strap on has no nerve endings.

FLR’s are real and should not be dismissed as nothing but “fetishizing queer women”. “Appreciation” and “trust” are much more accurate terms, and the appreciated, trusted woman does not need to be queer to qualify. I would look for intelligence, strength, thoughtfulness, creativity, and independence as some of the major characteristics, which essentially could apply to many other types of relationships.
I find Key Barrett, expert witness on case #1, to be very helpful. His insight is very valuable; especially when it comes to sub frenzy and taking it slow if incorporating this dynamic in a 24/7 relationship.

As for BOOBS, don’t go with anything chickeny- Dan, what were you thinking?!?! Get breast forms, the almost-real silicone blobs that other wannabees and cis women who lost theirs use. See how it feels for you, at home, and gauge where you want to go with this. Get some bras that fit you, and always be polite and thoughtful if consulting a pro for fitting and advice.
I would recommend wear them at home first before going out. You can still conceal them under baggy men’s clothes and jacket if you so choose. One can also create the “no bra” look and experience with a fitted camisole and/or a mutilated bralette. Special adhesive may also be an option.

My best forms are purchased from a small California-based family business that still has a fairly clumsy website:
https://www.supergelproducts.com
Start with the Narrow Triangles category and see how it feels. FWIW I find those to be the most realistic of the three categories they offer. (One of them goes for my friend raindrop, who would have thought?) Once you click your chosen pair you get few options. Under “Select Color” I'd go with the “Two-Toned Flesh” which comes with nice, visible nipples. (Be aware that those get dull over time.) Go with the 1/4” standard scoop at first and see how it works for you.
https://www.supergelproducts.com/narrowtriangles.aspx

Dear TBE,

As a dominant person who used to be a girl, here is what I think your boyfriend might enjoy:
Buy him small presents & pick him a flower or two as a surprise
Initiate sex
Be the big spoon
Make dinner reservations & get him a manicure
Wear a sharp suit to dinner
Open the door
Pay without hesitation or comment
Drive
...

Not necessarily in that order, nor all at once (unless it's your anniversary). Do some things consistently. Sounds like you've got the bedroom figured out - keep going with that. Good luck! Enjoy!

@11 CMDwannabe: Good advice for BOOBS. In retrospect, I take back my comment on wishing I had a temporary option of chicken cutlets if I wanted bigger boobs (I don't). I like your silicone breast forms idea better.

If anyone has any ideas about how to shrink a DD-cup size into a smaller one, please let me know.

TBE, it is not surprising that a good D/s compatibility created the right context for "the most emotionally connected sex" you have ever had as a couple. That is the reason that most people who have explored and enjoyed D/s in a relationship have difficulty returning to a purely vanilla relationship. As such, it is not surprising that some of your other relationship issues may have resolved with this shift in your relationship dynamic, in which your nurturing role transitions into an explicit dominant role.

"He says now he wants to be 'the girl' in our relationship . . . to be more 'the girl' sexually and emotionally." Clearly, Mr. TBE is playing on traditional hetero-normative roles, and in doing so reinforces such gendered roles while upending them. For some women, that would be offensive, even if it placed them personally in a dominant role. That TBE says, "I see this as sexy and loving," suggests that she finds this way of intellectualizing their evolving relationship dynamic appealing and exciting.

For now, as a new dominant, TBE can probably stick to thinking about their D/s in male / female dynamic since this may give her a reference point for switching relationship roles, although in time this characterization will probably drop away. There are already some spheres in which TBE can see how their roles are changing: (i) with respect to sex, (ii) domestic responsibilities, (iii) decision-making within the relationship, and (iv) nurturer versus nurtured.

TBE and Mr. TBE should get on FetLife, meet other people in female led relationships, and read some online resources. I would recommend they focus some attention on 1950s Household, Mommy/boy, and domestic discipline, as these topics may provide ideas about the relationship dynamic they want to explore.

Bowie @2, perhaps because there was no non-binary or genderqueer person in the question? Sure, there are people who present as male and masculine, or as female and feminine, but who don't associate themselves with their assigned gender. This guy didn't come across as one of them. A decade and a half before Arielle encountered this, I knew cis men who claimed to be "lesbians in men's bodies." The gist was that not only were they exclusively attracted to women, they generally preferred women's company to other men's. Or Perplexed could interpret "guyduke" as a straight man who loves to eat pussy and isn't really into PIV. She might do that as a slightly cheeky way of discouraging a straight man who prefers queer-presenting women from continuing to co-opt a queer identity.

Note to Dan: we less-enhanced cis gals call those chicken cutlets/filets, too. And BOOBS might want to go a step further and get some actual silicone breast forms, which have realistic nipples and are meant for people who don't have existing breasts to augment.

DC270 @1, how is a female-led relationship "fetishising queer women"? Mr TBE isn't fetishising anyone (let alone his partner, whom we can presume straight). He sees himself as inhabiting a gender role that is opposite to his assigned one.

EricaP @6, good call -- he may be a trans man who formerly identified as a dyke. Is Perplexed attracted to him, enough to delve into what he means by "guydyke"? If not, I wouldn't waste pixels.

Fubar @8, my guess is that his target market is bisexual women who are queer-identified (that is, politically part of the LGBTQI+ rainbow, rather than bi women who don't mind passing for straight). What does he have to offer them? I guess an alternative to the mostly futile pursuit of women, haha.

ChiTodd @9, me! The 80s "lesbian trapped in a man's body" became the 2000s metrosexual, and I guess they are now guydykes. Or just non-"alpha" straight men, right?

CMD @11 and Sublime @14, good posts. Having been there, I share Key's concern about "sub frenzy" (thank you for that excellent term for it). Since we are all exceptionally familiar with traditional het gender roles, it shouldn't be too difficult for them to identify which gender stereotypes they'd like to subvert. She does the DIY, he cooks and cleans. She opens doors for him. She wears trousers around the house and he wears dresses. He leaves decisions like where to go for dinner to her. She drives. They could start by paying close attention to the patterns they've fallen into as a het couple and which of those patterns -- for instance him driving by default, or paying the bill at dinner -- are based on gender roles, brainstorming lists, and trying them one by one. They could also come up with pet names that reflect the swapped roles -- he calls her Daddy, she calls him sweetheart. They should discuss these ideas before implementing them unilaterally, but I foresee a lot of fun in their future.

@15 BiDanFan: Agreed and seconded with you and CMD re Dan's recommendations to BOOBS.

Great image Joe Newton. Cheeky as ever.

Sometimes I do wonder what it’s like to have male genitals swinging between my legs, muscles that I could build to have massive arms, hair to shave on my face. Maybe not the face hair. Daily shaving must be tedious. Wouldn’t mind a nice pair of perky breasts too. Six kids and years of breastfeeding, one loses that perky breast, nice pink nipples. I miss mine.

Good points, usedtobeagirl.
A few more. Give foot massages, sit back watching tv while he slaves in the kitchen cooking dinner after doing the shopping. Do the lawn mowing, climb up on the roof when there’s a leak, fart wherever and whenever you want to. Listen and nod ever few minutes when he’s gossiping about others. Leave wet towels on the bathroom floor. Never notice the dirt around the house. Draw him a bath and drop rose petals in it. Buy yourself a chainsaw to cut wood.

Lava @20, expect him to wear perfume, makeup and lingerie, while she stops shaving her legs. :)

Mx Wanna - The comment about "fetishizing queer women" struck me as a reference to the daily letter (which has Demigender Husband in the headline) and not any reflection on L1.

Ms Fan @16 - No; metrosexuals aren't anywhere near so invasive unless one takes a hard Spas Are Only For Girls line.

L2 - To place Ms Scarcella, she has her following, but probably not many woke people would be among her natural constituency. I have some sympathy for the male-appearing person, as staking out new ground will naturally entail a bit of trial and error. Perhaps Male-Appearing Person is a feather ruffler.

L1 - I'm surprised nobody suggested "order for him" when dining out. I wonder how many of the actual nuts and bolts genuinely appeal to BF1; it's perhaps a good thing that nothing is irrevocable here and that C1 can try and discard various things to see what both of them find valuable. The Guest Expert seemed to know his onions. I recall hearing a few years ago about how it was rather common for women with househusbands to lose attraction for them within a relatively short time; the GE might have insight about how true that sort of thing is.

Venn @22, ah yes, I made that mistake too, having followed CMD's lead. The demigender husband (which comments I shall not read, and I hope for his sake he doesn't either) is not "fetishising queer women" either, since he is not the one asking whether he should call himself a lesbian, and he is also not pursuing any queer women that we know of, the LW herself not stating that she is queer in any way. I don't think that calling oneself demigender would be perceived by any reasonable person as "fetishising queer women," though if he did make the unwise choice of calling himself a lesbian, he might be perceived to have that as a motive.

As for "ordering for him," TBE said she wanted to enact these gender role reversals in a "sexy and loving" way, not a paternalistic and controlling one. I've only heard of a man ordering for a woman once, on a first date which for that very reason became a last date. Wait staff may still wave bills under the noses of men while their female companions vainly proffer their debit cards, but I've never encountered an expectation that I would not be placing my own order. On the contrary, wait staff generally take a chivalrous approach of asking the woman first. I'm going out to dinner tonight with a male friend, I shall report back on whether this is the case.

1.) I'd never heard of a FLR before but after reading this I thought "Wait, aren't most relationships FLR?" I feel like most of the relationships I see between men and women in my world are either FLR or maybe split right down the middle. They don't involve pegging (that I know of!) but the women are way more on top of things, paying bills, working higher-powered jobs, making most of the decisions, etc. This doesn't feel like a very big jump in the way the LW thinks (makes me wonder if there's something I'm missing with the FLR?)

2.) This sounds like a right-wing troll to me. I teach in a school with boys from a very conservative religious background and they are obsessed with how many genders I think there are and poking holes in liberal worldviews. (This obsession makes me wonder how many of them are secretly struggling with their rigid social hierarchy. I also now follow the advice of a friend and always answer one - ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer.) I can see half of them doing this thinking its a funny way to take the piss out of liberals (and maybe tap into some of those very suppressed sexual feelings?) I'd recommend just ignoring this dude.

"Let him order first" might be a more modern approach.

Larry @24, a quick Google reveals that Arielle Scarcella indeed has a history of problematic views on trans women. False flags can be difficult to identify, but I read Bowie @2's post as sincere.
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Arielle_Scarcella

No, Hunter, only you thought that. Dan hasn't done drag in years. CMD is far more up to date on feminisation technology which has now surpassed cutlet-shaped inserts and moved on to breast-shaped breasts. Troll fail.

TBE, here are a few ideas to make it fun, for what they are worth. If you don't like any of them, that's ok.

Take a class in ballroom dance, swing dance, or salsa dance. You learn the lead and he learns to follow. Then go out dancing and show off what you learned. Especially at weddings.

Insist that he shave his balls and perineum. Sexy girls shave down there you know. If the blade scares him, the only depilatory I know that doesn't burn there is Magic Shaving Powder. "Formulated for Black Men", but also for scrotums. Don't leave it on too long. I've never found an electric razor that works. All of them have been painful. A regular Gillette sensor with lots of soap in the shower works just fine though.

Refer to his cock as a clit, or his clitty. You can call it an itty bitty clitty, if he doesn't mind. Or comment on what a big clit he has.

When you're pegging him does he have prostate orgasms? If not, that's a great goal. It's a real thing! No touching the cock, er, i mean clitty. You can pull on his balls, or you can wrap your thumb and forefinger around the whole package and pull, but no wanking. Or if he's into it, lock the thing up.

Have him wear a butt plug when you want, but not whenever he wants. Like, maybe he needs your permission. I don't know that this is strictly a male female role reversal, but it's standard D/s and seems to fit with the pegging.

Google CDD, Christian Domestic Discipline. If it doesn't scare the hell out of you, you might find some ideas there for role reversal, based on terribly outdated notions about male and female roles. Sublime already sorta mentioned it @14.

Get him some fancy lingerie. Otherwise he'll be putting on your underwear and stretching it out.

Dan's right, though, I'd be careful where this goes and how fast. Even though it sounds fun now, if you really want a boyfriend with a hard cock, and not a submissive girlfriend, this might be going in the wrong direction.

That's great advice from Key Barrett. I particularly like what she says about his wanting to be the girl as the only words he has to describing his desires. Straight and bi men seem to lack the vocabulary and are left describing bottoming as being feminine. As Dan likes to point out about gays, we have to say the four words—what are you into. Not having a default action like PIV sex requires us to expand our vocabulary. There are feminine tops and masculine bottoms in the gay world. The same can be true in the straight world.

@12,
That sounds like good advice on the mechanics of being the man.

Venn @ 22
BDF @ 23
My opening sentence @ 11, “FLR’s are real and should not be dismissed as nothing but “fetishizing queer women” was a response to DC270 @1 whose post seemed to bundle the two cases together. At least that’s the way I read their/her post, DC is welcome to correct me if otherwise.

And while I’m flattered by BDF’s following my lead I’d very much prefer the other way around, lingerie and all ;)

TBE-- Demand to be paid 25% more for the same work while your boyfriend takes a paycut.

Dan, I found Arielle from your referral. And I watched and enjoyed her videos until she got called out for transphobia. She reacted to that by being clearly transphobic and insulting to transfolk. She made videos with Blair White, a transperson who posts videos with harmful and hateful things to say about transsexuality.

When I stopped viewing her, she had 4 at least transphobic videos. I don't know if she has renounce these videos. I odn't know if she has understood that if he ability to date or have sex with a female identifying person is based on their genitals is a part of the definition of transphobia. Saying transwomen are women is not lesbian erasure. Denying it erased the many lesbians who have trans partners.

When my wife made love with a transwoman, it was clearly two women making love. Arielle would erase that and deny my trans friend full womanhood because of genitals.

Please stop going to Arielle for advice. There are so many better sources like Stevie Boebi.

@26 not responding to second post, just making two posts. I just thought that the guy saying he identified as a lesbian may be a right wing troll trying to rile people up.

@34: I think it's much more likely that a functionally straight, cis man (someone born male, whose expression is entirely consistent with maleness, and whose sexual interests are overwhelmingly if not entirely focused on females/female expression) had the "clever" idea to try and use modern gender issues as an opportunity to get laid. Wouldn't be the first time I saw a guy try to use shoestring justifications to explain why sleeping with him is the politically correct thing to do, won't be the last. Trolls are usually way more over the top.

Compare JW from yesterday's letter, who also isn't being over the top and who is just asking what the hot new neologisms are for their current situation. (In her case, considering how freshly made up all these words are anyways, she's free to either make up a new one to her liking or else just use the currently existing words that best fit.) If she were a troll, I'd expect either way more involved hand-wringing or else insistence that everybody else stick to her nonsensical meanings. I wonder why some people are so quick to assume troll/fake when the more pedestrian answers make much more sense.

Asking a 3rd party why someone else identifies the way they do is pretty fucking useless. I am queer and a genderqueer man. I want to drop the 'man' part, but honestly I have rather masc features, and hate shaving my face (gives me mad breakouts) and I, personally, feel like dropping the 'man' part would be disingenuous to my experience, e.g. the amount of male privilege that I get, despite the fact that I don't feel like a man. I am also primarily attracted to queer femmes, and I have a big fear of being perceived the way guydyke is. I've often felt "like a lesbian trapped in a mans body" but have never said it out loud for fear of eliciting TERFy reactions like the one from Arielle Scarcella. Obviously I dont know this guydyke's story, but for me there is still a chance I may transition later in life - I think about it a lot. I'm also dating a lesbian woman who 1) is a lesbian 2) hasn't been with a male bodied person in over 20 years 3) said I am 'the most femme person she's ever hooked up with' (swoon).

Not sure why I'm rambling about all this, but TL;DR, it would probably be a lot more impactful to ask the guydyke if he would mind elaborating on his identity than it would to give a right-wing pandering asshole like Arielle a platform.

I honestly cant stop thinking about this, what a weird fucking choice. L1 and L3 are about male bodied individuals finding different ways to explore their femininity and expand identity, then L2 we ask a TERF to shit on someone's identity. L2 even has the statement "Granted, nobody is obliged to announce their gender identity through clothing or grooming choices, but.." then we proceed to invalidate this person for that exact reason, and just hand a TERF firepower for shutting down "all these cloud gender libs!". Now I know I shouldn't fall on my sword for a random dude on a dating site, as 99% chance he is not being genuine (hi, it's a dating app) but maybe he likes wearing breast forms, maybe he likes crossdressing and sissy play, maybe he just loves to scissor.

Response 2 should have been 3 words: "IDK, ask him?"

gebbeth @36 - thanks for your post. I think calling yourself "queer and genderqueer" is valid (if you decide to).

I don't see why you'd have to shave your face in order to use the label you prefer -- though certainly other people use facial hair to guess at gender so you would probably continue to be misgendered by strangers.

gebbeth @37 "maybe he likes wearing breast forms"

Or maybe he spent his whole adult life as a lesbian, before transitioning, and doesn't feel "straight" despite looking male & wanting to date women.

"Response 2 should have been 3 words: 'IDK, ask him?'"

That.

I was referring to the “guydyke” encountered by Perplexed. I'm perplexed how anyone could think I was referencing anyone else in the debate about men claiming to be lesbians or flavors thereof.

To expand on @36's perspective, I'm a bi woman (sort of, I frequently consider the idea that I'm agender or genderqueer, but for the time being I'm socially a somewhat gender-nonconforming cis woman) that has always been very into gay male culture and relationships. I know that a yaoi/slash fic-obsessed girl is a total stereotype and probably just fetishizing gay men, but I frequently find myself feeling an intense sadness that I wasn't born into a male body (or at least a body that could more easily pass for androgynous/male) so I could be with a guy as a guy. I compromise by dating mainly bi/feminine guys when I do date guys, but it's not really the same because of the pervasiveness of gender roles. I consider this a form of gender dysphoria and while I don't actually identify as a "girlfag" (the counterpart to a guydyke), I find it an extremely relatable concept and think it could be considered a part of the broader trans umbrella.

So I find myself wanting to give the benefit of the doubt to the guydyke in LW2, but I also don't know how to distinguish between people who feel it as a sincere identity and people who are using it in a joking, opportunistic, or fetishizing way (other than discussing it with them, as mentioned).

Ms Fan - I don't think ordering for someone necessarily any worse than doing all the driving. It doesn't preclude knowing exactly or roughly what someone wants, and can manifest that the orderer has paid at least some attention to the preferences of the orderee. The suggestion that she do all the driving reminded me of "Rumpole and the Female of the Species", in which a Molloy nabbed after a bank robbery names Tony Timson as the getaway driver. Tony's record is littered with a series of traffic violations, while Rumpole has noticed that Tony's wife April is quite zippy behind the wheel. That and the fact that the five thousand pounds share was hidden in the Timsons' washing machine (which the chauvinistic Tony wouldn't have known how to use) clued Rumpole in that it was April behind the wheel instead of Tony and the Molloys just hadn't wanted to admit they'd used a woman driver. The crowning triumph for the female gender is that Phyllida Erskine Brown, whom the chauvinistic Timsons forced to take Rumpole as a leader on the case, becomes a Queen's Counsel during the episode, so that she gets to make the highly effective final speech about the Presumption of Innocence.

Ms Confused - Well, you certainly have taste of the highest refinement. I'm sure that's a perfectly valid identity (although, unfortunately, also suitable for trolling). As you seem respectful and cognizant of how yaoi is almost entirely both by women and for women, I am prepared to wish you a bi male partner who views your relationship as much an MM one as you want.

DC @ 40
Perplexion could have been possibly averted had potentially perplexed readers would have known that you are referring to a different thread they haven't read prior to reading this one.

confusedboi @41
"I also don't know how to distinguish between people who feel it as a sincere identity and people who are using it in a joking, opportunistic, or fetishizing way (other than discussing it with them, as mentioned)."

Talking to them about their experiences, preferences and goals seems like a solid approach. Why would another way be needed?

@37; fuck off. Then fuck off some more. Some dude trying it on and you call the guest a Terf.
Unbelievable.

@11, @31, and @44 CMDwannabe: Congratulations on your new avatar. How perfect for this SL comment thread.

The reply to LW2 definitely carried transphobic undertones/used commonly transphobic language, but I can see how one might not catch that. I do not agree with her logic, as masculine trans women exist and are women, but I do ultimately agree with the conclusion.

In my experience, butch lesbian trans women (or women-adjacent people) present and act in ways that are not at all like cis men, and none of them would refer to themselves as guydykes (or guys at all). A dating profile is also a very reasonable place to clarify that you’re not cis. I personally would regard the profile as it appears, a straight man fetishizing queer women.

Figuring out gender identity and gender expression can be a complicated and long process, so in the future they might that out that isn’t be the case. But that doesn’t change how that person identifies/presents/is perceived now.

I think you graduate from chicken cutlets to bodyforms.

Good answer from Arielle Scarcella.

You can fuck off too @48.

@2. bowie. Because the guy (or guydyke) hitting up Perplexed is (probably) not 'checking his privilege'. That was Dan's reaction, and what dictated his choice of Scarcella as his expert.

There was nothing on the line for him in his self-identification. He was not changing his appearance and courting the ridicule of some cispeople, eg queering or kiboshing his chances of getting jiggy with a normative ciswoman. (Damn; I got sucked in again). There was no reason to think him AFAB.

@7. Griz. Wise words. Transitioning 'men' (AMAB) have a difficult juggling-act (as it were): the right breasts for their physique could well lead to back pain later in life.

@11. CMD. Great new avatar!

@22. venn. But what is this term 'guydyke'? Why isn't he using a term with broader currency? (Unless it has broader currency?)

@26. Bi. She could be the cis lesbian Jordan Peterson and she'd still be right this one time.

@33. retiredchef. 'Saying transwomen are women is not lesbian erasure'--that was your key line. Well said for putting it on the table; now Arielle Scarcella can say whether she agrees? If she does, I say 'let her inadvertent transphobia' pass. When people crab you and call you names, it's natural to badmouth them and make common cause with their enemies. Instead, let's take a step back, suppose that both politicised SS-attraction lesbians and politicised straight transwomen have valid interests to defend, and see if there's scope for a productive discussion.

Larry @34, ah, thanks for clarifying. I dunno, I've seen similar enough things that I think a guy messaging women on a dating site is far more likely to be trying to date them than troll them.

Chi @35, yes, exactly. Perhaps this guy has in fact always preferred the company of queer women even in platonic situations, doesn't feel he fits in with his fellow cishet men, and is taking advantage of the current climate of people getting to choose whatever terms they feel best fit their own gender and orientation to align himself with the queer subculture rather than the straight one.

Gebbeth @36-@37, thank you for your contribution. I apologise in advance for the inevitable counterattacks you're sure to suffer just for speaking your truth. I see you and I accept you, and congratulations on having found someone to love. Also, have you thought about getting your beard lasered off?

DC270 @40: because you literally were comparing two LWs?

Confused @41, thank you for sharing too. I feel similarly and have come to think of myself as a demigirl. I too prefer to date bisexual/effeminate men. Funnily enough, I feel more "female" than I ever have now that I've entered perimenopause, so perhaps you have that to look forward (?) to?

The guydyke may be cleverer than we think; with just one word, he is weeding out women with traditional ideas about gender, so he is far less likely to find himself in bed with a woman who rejects him for preferring to be pegged than to engage in PIV, if that's any part of the basis for his self-description.

Venn @42, I deem it far worse to presume you know what somebody wants to eat. Unless you are going to a restaurant where there are only two options, which is never the case. Whereas with driving, there are only two options -- you drive versus I drive. People rarely change their preference in this regard whereas on any given evening, even a fussy eater can narrow down menu options to a few. If you meant he tells her what he'd like and she tells the wait staffer, that's a different matter. (My dinner last night can't be considered as an example due to the table placement rendering one side of the table approachable and the other not so. The waiter skilfully presented the bill equidistant to us.)

CMD @44, exactly this.

EricaP @45, because one should not waste one's time engaging with trolls, so it would be nice to have some clues before entering into a discussion that quickly leads to one being mocked.

Lava @46/@50, how predictable. How about you do the fucking off? A very quick google reveals that the guest DOES have a history of transphobic comments. Her reply to Perplexed was fine, but the wisdom of giving a transphobic person the definitive say on genderqueer people is questionable. The two commenters (newbies at that) deserve more respect than you gave them.

Dan picked Arielle.. so youse all accusing Dan of being a transphobic battleaxe, or bringing one on as a guest? Wow. Heavy.

@36. gebbeth. Hooray--like the undead, more and more NBs/genderqueer people are climbing out the cupboard. I agree with everything you say--other than I think it is a legitimate concern that psuedowoke men are muscling in on purely female space. Physical space and psychic space.

@41. confusedboi. Yes. What you don't know (right at the end of your post) is what we all don't know.

Oh really Fan.. I’ve seen you dump on newbies when you haven’t liked their comments. Whatever Arielle has said elsewhere, her words here were spot on, imo, and I find it offensive people immediately jump to the ol.. You’re a terf, you’re a terf.. yeah yeah yeah.. like that’s the end of the conversation.

Harriet @51, I don't disagree with Arielle's advice here. Indeed, even a stopped clock, etc. Personally, as a queer woman, I would take a dim view of a masculine-presenting "guydyke" who messaged me on OKC as well. He would strike me as an opportunist. But then it would go back to, did I find him (otherwise) attractive? If so, I would perhaps try to find out more. Perhaps this guy has a specific type -- someone like Confusedboi or myself -- and by using a controversial term like "guydyke" he alienates everyone but those who would be sympathetic to someone like him.

@53. Lava. He's too young to be a battleax-- ;)

I'd be pleased if he endorses retiredchef's 'saying transwomen are women is not lesbian erasure'.

@55. Bi. We agree. Erica could well be right about this guy's life-history. My own reaction was that I was a bit indignant on behalf of lesbians' right to their own spaces and THEN I did a double-take, asking, '... or is he AFAB?'

'Find out more' is always good advice. It's possible he doesn't have a functional bio-dick and is apprehensive about hitting up ciswomen. But if Perplexed isn't interested in him... Fine, leave it--no harm, no foul. All she did was ask Dan a question--a genuine question, which has garnered a variety of responses.

Lava @55, nobody "immediately jumped." We did our research.

Lava @57 (correct), please show me an example of me telling anyone to fuck off in response to well thought out comments with which I disagreed. You are one of those people who thinks being called a TERF is worse than being a TERF, and that's a shitty attitude.

Argh! The two comments numbered 55 are confusing me. As you were.

I could easily be reading more into things than is actually there. But Perplexed's "how is this guy not straight?" and Arielle's opening with her thoughts on lesbianism give me the impression that Perplexed isn't normally open to guys and that guydyke is listing as girl. In which case, while people are certainly free to identify however they like, dating is one of those places where how you present and how you're embodied absolutely matters.

Someone who's outwardly indistinguishable from a straight, cis person, who lists as their perceived sex (and consequently only shows up for people who are into their perceived sex), and clarifies their gender choices in text is one thing. That same person who lists as the opposite of their perceived sex is, at best, facing an upwards struggle.

Ms Fan - No biggie, but I don't think I'd want to marry anyone who couldn't make a decent stab at ordering for me. It seems to be on a spectrum, with your presumption on one end and BF1's telling LW what he'd like and her ordering for both of them in a chivalrous manner on the other end. In some of my relationships, one of us ordering for the other on occasion has been a way of exercising our psychic connection.

As some have already noticed I’ll be sporting a slightly different avatar for the next few days in honor of chicken cutlets.

Ms Lava - A Guest Expert's simply being a friend of Mr Savage's doesn't convey immunity from being considered problematic. Ms Scarcella does have a track record; it doesn't help much to pretend nobody will notice. One leading indicator these days is whether someone is supportive of or friendly with Blaire White, the right wing's One Good Trans Woman.

Mr Savage is perhaps closer friends with Mr Angel, a frequent Guest Expert on trans questions, whose views are considered so problematic that, when the often-considered Queen of the YouTube Left, ContraPoints, had him appear in one of her videos quoting a line for perhaps ten seconds, the result was a major kerfuffle over her "platforming" him.

In something like confirmation of the substance of her response, I do recall hearing videos in which people earnestly explained how, "If you say you're trans or non-binary, you are," shortly before Canadian alt-right personality Lauren Southern (who bore a modest resemblance to Maria Sharapova) decided to change her gender identity to male (perhaps even legally). I'm not sure the situation has had any satisfactory resolution.

I suppose Mr Savage's first instinct in responding to the letter was to consider LW's position (although whether LW2 is bi or lesbian could send the letter in fascinatingly different directions). Ms Scarcella was a reasonable choice of guest to consult for that perspective. Had Mr Savage also wanted to consider the issue from the other side, he might have brought in someone familiar with the term used or (in case it's an original of the person floating it) who's similarly created terms. Given how polarized the times are, though, I doubt Mr Savage has many friends among the trailblazers. (Recall how often he's criticized from the left; it's among those people were one would probably look to find the other perspective on that question. Just as the Intellectual Dark Web members basically go on each other's programmes and reaffirm each other's views, it's plausible that most of those Guest Experts open to assisting Mr Savage will be in fairly close alignment with him on major questions of the times.)

Mx Wanna - I'll be grateful if it's temporary; it's reminding me of conversion therapy.

Venn @62, no biggie indeed, but interesting. I guess I can't envision going for a meal with someone and not discussing the options with my companion. (One of my partners is also vegetarian, and we frequently manage to each narrow down the choices to the same two meals, meaning we each get to sample our first two preferences. But it would still seem weird for either of us to make an executive decision without having discussed it!)

Lava - Getting a TERF to respond to a question from a trans or genderqueeer person is like getting a Nazi to respond to a letter from a Jewish reader or a person of color. It's completely not OK under any circumstances, regardless of the advice given.

BiDanFan - I agree, it does appear Lava is more against the term TERF than the disgusting attitudes and behaviour of TERFs. In my experience that usually means the person is themself a TERF and finds the critiques hitting too close to home.

Oh, some luck at last. It’s been a difficult week.
You can fuck off too, KBW. Yes the term terf is offensive and no I don’t exclude trans people.
It’s a word used to attempt to silence and to invalidate any thoughts which don’t follow the party line.
Genuine trans people are people I would never exclude. This guy is not trans, and it’s an insult to trans people that these imposters try it on.

Jumped the gun. Now I get some good luck.

I trust Dan’s judgement in who he invites onto his page, KBW. If you lot think he’d invite a terf to comment then what you all doing here? You should walk in protest.

Regarding ordering for others, Wifey and I were invited to restaurant in Geneva (The one in Switzerland) back in the 90’s. It was a stuffy old place. She was given a menu with no prices. Mine had prices. I know this was a long time ago, but even then this was shocking for us. We just swapped menus. We let our host order for both of us.

I wonder sometimes if there are any restaurants in the world that still do this.

Thanks for explaining your avatar CMD, I couldn’t work out what it’s a picture of.
Mr Venn, I thought Buck Angel was Ok, so what you saying? I haven’t investigated Arielle’s other theories and positions, I’m just relating to what she says here. Brave woman for saying anything about trans issues because it’s so prickly when one dares to step outside the prescribed ‘understandings’ , that it’s best to stay the fuck away. Fascism comes in many forms.

I rest my case.

@lavagirl "I trust Dan’s judgement" yea maybe do your own research? - no one is infallible. A very quick look at the guests twitter shows her to be a massive asshole and yes she regurgitates and stokes TERF rhetoric. I never called you a TERF, but your offensive at the term is a little telling. I also normally don't agree with the tactic of denouncing all you disagree with by using pithy language - its lazy and too easy - but you seem pretty happy just telling me to "fuck off" so /shrug.

Ms Lava - Perhaps someone else can supply the details with more certainty, as I only recall hearing them once. Mr Angel has expressed and stood by one or more views of some trans issue(s), perhaps dysmorphia, that is seen as seriously harmful in the current orthodoxy. I don't think he's viewed as negatively as Ms White.

Perhaps Mr Savage, being long used to being on the receiving end of the forerunner of Cancel Culture, and having managed more or less successfully to get some realigned positions accepted, is less inclined than some would like to give much credence to a friend's dodgy or bad reputation.

Telling what? That it pisses me off that people get so offended when others don’t agree with how some people say it is?
I haven’t checked her stuff.
I know when I’ve dared, dared I say, to confront some thinking of others on this issue, I’ve been closed down and attacked. If the party line isn’t strictly followed all hell breaks loose.
This guy presents and lives as a male and you try to say, oh that’s ok. Trans can be presented in any form anytime and anyway. Yep it’s true. I can you can we all can self identity as we choose. Doesn’t mean everyone else has to collude with that or agree with that. And like Arielle, I don’t, in this instance. I’m calling myself a kangaroo, ok? You all better recognise that’s what I am. Hop Hop
Being trans must be a very hard situation, being alienated from one’s biological sex, one’s body. I would never never not give support and acceptance to those who have genuinely struggled and found ways to live as the gender they feel they are, even if their body doesn’t align with that feeling.
You were quick to label this guest’s answer as terf like. With absolute bull reasons. Imo.

This whole it’s gender not sex is a mind fuck to me. Of course it’s about sex because if a cis lesbian is only attracted to a vagina which is on another cis woman then anyone telling her...Oh honey, you know, some women have a penis so you must go with them too..is imposing on this woman, denying her her choices about what body parts she is attracted to, and usually with cis lesbians, it doesn’t include a penis or any person who doesn’t have a cis woman’s body.
This man in this letter is either delusional, or jumping on the gravy train of anything goes, so he thinks, I’ll score a cis lesbian by saying I’m one too. That is offensive.

@lavagirl Lavagirl: "fuck off", "what you all doing here? You should walk", and of course, "fuck off"

Also Lavagirl: "term terf is offensive {...} It’s a word used to attempt to silence and to invalidate any thoughts which don’t follow the party line."

okay girl, if TERF if such a slur I look forward to you reclaiming it. I'll wear my cute QUEER crop top and you a frumpy TERF sweater and we can both take pride in letting the world know who we are.

I labeled her as TERFy because I'm familiar with her work, and my issue from post-1 has been less with this specific response than it has been with the two-fold issue of 1) the gatekeeping of having random strangers decide your identity for you, and 2) giving ass-hats platforms. You very proudly state that you have done zero research on her, so it seems risky to go to such lengths defending her, but yea go off.

Email Dan, ask him why he picked her. I agree with Arielle’s take here, given the info we’ve been given, and that’s all I agree with. I’ve no interest in checking her work elsewhere.
Trans women are my sisters. We are under the umbrella of being women, we are not interchangeable. I know what it is to be a cis woman, I’ve lived as one for many decades.
I don’t know what it’s like to be a trans woman and do not presume to tell them who they have to fuck. However it’s spun, we are different and that difference needs respecting and those who don’t can talk to the hand.

so it seems like it was you that jumped to conclusions without proper information, you're projecting a shit-ton and holding me accountable for others that shut you down, then bringing up a bunch of unrelated issues in an attempt to justify your reaction? When did anyone say LW2 is morally obligated to go on a lesbian date with this guydyke? a cis-lesbian who isnt attracted to him isnt going to go on a date with him, no matter what he writes in his profile!! "sorry, everyone has to suck dick now idc if you dont like it!" what!? And the kangaroo bit, really? Rehashing attack helicopter memes from 2010? Thats the oldest anti-trans joke meme on the books how are you on the internet this much and do not know thattttt.

okay I just crossed that threshold where I don't want to argue anymore I just feel bad for you. Good luck out there.

LG @77
"This man in this letter is either delusional, or jumping on the gravy train of anything goes, so he thinks, I’ll score a cis lesbian by saying I’m one too. That is offensive."

You know nothing about this person except that he looks male, calls himself queer & a guydyke and is only attracted to women. You know nothing of his biology, psychology, or upbringing. Why take offense, rather than remain curious about another person's reality? As gebbeth says, no one is telling the LW to date this person.

I hope TBE can get the real guy stuff out of her guy role: having to make every damn decision and make every plan.

Perplexed: This is a direct mirror of the straight woman who wanted to put herself on Grindr because she was politically opposed to her own heterosexuality.

BOOBS: Even the perfect rack isn't going to give you what you want, no matter how accepting (or not) your community is.

@15 I'd never call myself a lesbian-in-a-mans-body or have the gall to advertise myself as anything other than straight, I'm definitely a straight guy who has always preferred female company. But I was never "mister sensitive" or metro or any of the other trends .

Arielle Scarcella's views are neither trans-exclusive nor trans-affirmative. She believes her orientation is towards a biological sex (females) and that she shouldn't be called a transphobe for not wanting to suck dick.

@68 Welcome to the resistance. You'll never win this argument because you're arguing with LIARS.

Perhaps Mr Savage will address his selection in the weekly roundup.

Lava- just as cis women have diverse backgrounds, experiences, lifestyles, and appearances so do others.
Speaking of appearance, which seems to be your main criteria for acceptance, please be aware that usually, not always but usually, it is easier for someone born in a female body to project themselves in a masculine manner than the other way around.
They are also likely to be more accepted in most cultures and usually, again, not always but usually, less likely to be exposed to daily acts of ridicule, the possibility of being attacked randomly, or harassed by “law enforcement” of some sort.

(Note: this is a gross generalization to offer Lava another angle to look at this situation. It is by no means an attempt to minimize the many challenges that trans men of any shade are facing.)

You admit you don’t see much if any of the in between crowd in your coastal town let alone get it, yet have already determined that the person in question “is either delusional, or jumping on the gravy train of anything goes, so he thinks, I’ll score a cis lesbian by saying I’m one too.” That is indeed offensive and makes one wonder where you get those ideas.
It also dilutes your earlier statement of “support and acceptance to those who have genuinely struggled and found ways to live as the gender they feel they are", making it sound as if those you deem as qualified should adhere to your standards of appearance and expected lifestyle.

I wasn’t crazy about the nazi equation brought up earlier as it dilutes their crimes, yet be aware that to many of us it does matter who says what and I’m sure you also have your own preferences/biases in this regard.

@69 LavaGirl: WA-HOOOOO!!!!!! Major congrats on scoring this week's highly coveted Lucky @69 Award!! An abundance of good luck is yours! (It appears to be already working--the latest trolls have left the comment thread, finally). Savor the glory. :)

Lava @72: "I haven’t investigated Arielle’s other theories and positions" -- but you feel qualified to rule that she is not a TERF and tell anyone who -has- investigated her other theories and positions to fuck off. Gotcha. TERF is not a slur; the only people who think it's a slur are TERFs, and it's quite easy to avoid being called a TERF by not being one. It perplexes me that you trot out such famous transphobic tropes like "I'll identify as a kangaroo now" and "trans women want to force lesbians to suck dick" while in the next sentence saying trans women are your sisters. If you truly felt that way you wouldn't make such offensive comments. But, this discussion is as unlikely to enlighten you as any that have gone before. Enjoy your lucky number amongst all the well-earned tellings-off.

Griz @85, excuse me? Who do you mean by "the latest trolls"?

I do wonder how L2 would have read had GD2 had a metrosexual appearance. Even if LW2's assessment of the appearance of the average straight man should happen to be entirely accurate, that's not how I'd have advised her to express it were the goal to win the sympathy of the jury.

@86 TERF is obviously a slur, dipshit. Shame on you for this naked gaslighting attempt.

Hunter @88, well, I have never heard the argument "trans women shouldn't compete against cis women because the whole point of women's sports is for men to ogle them" before. I think you have kind of missed the point of that issue. Try watching porn if you want to be titillated?

Sporty @89, lol. TERF stands for trans exclusionary radical feminist, which is what they themselves call themselves.

And I think with these two comments, the thread has reached peak stupid. See y'all next week.

@80 it seems pretty obvious that no one here identifies that way, unless you want us to start calling you a fag all the live long day (note: Fag is not an insult because Dan used to identify that way). Well, maybe fag-hag would be a better descriptor for you?

BDF is also the person who said that she didn't think 70% of people was enough to qualify as "most".

How a generation of white ladies redefined deep narcissism as empathy I'll never know, but I blame the rest of you for falling for it and enabling it. I've been on to this shit since I was a kid.

@67. KBW. I would want to say, on the other side, that lesbians have the right to consider dicks a male appendage and thus not be interested, sexually, in anyone with a biodick. No matter that one suspects these women of using dildos in their sex lives.

If they like, they can say it's the reptile part of their brain that makes them see dicks as male and only male.

What's transphobic is the denial of transwomen being transwomen and the denial, in various legal contexts, of maternal and wifely rights eg visiting rights, rights of access to a child in case of a separation, rights of adjusting identity documentation, and so on.

@90 BiDanFan
"I have never heard the argument "trans women shouldn't compete against cis women because the whole point of women's sports is for men to ogle them" before"

LOL.

@70. Lava. Or rather protest in protest.

I do agree with the people saying that 'TERF' is a good description of one particular kind of bigot.

@88. Hunter. I don't think someone's sexual preferences make someone 'trans-exclusionary', when that term entails denying trans people a certain status (is, in effect, a prejudice).

In the end, one has sex with individuals. Past a certain point in life, one is likely to have sex with fewer individuals, on average (and the model of marital monogamy is to have sex with one--or zero). You (or I) might find 18-21yo s attractive; but I don't think either of us have sex with them. Whether you would have sex with a 22yo ciswoman, and not an equally conventionally attractive 22yo transwoman, is probably more a matter of toss-another-log-on-the-fire fantasy, than a reasonable basis for any political view you might have about transpeople.

Aunt Zelda @ 85
Lava’s liberal use of fuck offs does not necessarily mean that those told to fuck off are indeed trolls.
I hope the awards committee is also reading the posts beyond counting numbers and glancing angry rants.

Sporty @ 93
“I've been on to this shit since I was a kid.”
It seems like you’re still struggling with lots of stuff. Teaming up with professionals may help in figuring things out, maybe also resolve some of the issues that still haunt you and continue to fuel your anger.

Yikes, never expected all these SL regular commenters to be TERFs. The first thing that comes up when you google Arielle Scarcella is transphobia. I don't like the whole guilt by association thing, but she has worked with Blaire White and is using TERF language. Her response to this LW isn't explicitly transphobic, but language like "biological males" hints that that is her community. Gender is not biological for a number of reasons (better explained here: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/22/health/transgender-trump-biology.html). Arielle is using TERF dog whistles. If you find TERF to be an offensive term, great! It's having its intended effect. Don't be trans exclusionary. It's not that hard.

Also, I strongly suspect that the person the LW saw on the dating app was AFAB and isn't aware that he's passing so well. It's hard to give up identities like lesbian even once your gender identity and presentation change. Still, I don't see why the LW didn't just swipe left and move along. Why does it bother them so much that they wrote to an advice columnist about it?

@Lava I called it! Your TERFness was thinly veiled and just a tiny nudge or two on the rock you live under was enough to get you to crawl out and show yourself for what you are.

@Sportlandia The layers of bigotry that you seem to be burdened with are simply staggering.

@Harriet I agree that everyone - including every lesbian - is free to choose who they have sex with, and how. Just as I am free to find it strange that someone is fine with a dildo but not a dick. However as BiDanFan already pointed out, 'trans women are going to force lesbians to suck dick' is a really common transphobic trope and complete BS. It's part of the bigoted narrative that is used to spread hate and fear about trans people, which in turn is used to deny them their human rights. That is not a coincidence. This is exactly what such language is intended to do.

@97, 98 I agree wholeheartedly with both of these comments.

auntie grizelda @13 As a person with I-cups (yes, they exist, and no, it's not * just * because I'm large/overweight/whatever, though that doesn't help), I envy you your DD's. My best advice for back pain is to find bras that really, really fit, and don't be afraid of underwire. I highly recommend Goddess bras (available at barenecessities.com). They're the only bras I've ever had that really support me and don't poke in weird places. They specialize in making bras for people with large breasts -- they actually don't make any cup sizes smaller than DD! I wear the "Keira Satin Side Support Bra." They have a few sports bras, too, one of which I have, and it's the only bra without underwire I've been able to wear since I was 14.

Ms Squeeky @99 - It might help if we knew the full background. If the app were OS, I could imagine LW2 thinking that this presentation might be Something People Are Doing, and consulting an expert on what it means in case she were to be contacted by another, perhaps more appealing, GD. If non-straight, I could imagine LW2 thinking GD2 a possible intruder.