Savage Love

Full-Throated

Comments

112

They tweaked Jane Austen? I didn’t take to the woman playing Emma. It was a movie I was going to get to.
Interesting, Lulu @108, re your estrogen levels.
Yes, Alison’s insights are sound. I was taking the piss. Or was I.
Pregnancy was fine for me, it was getting the baby out I didn’t look forward to. Even after I’d gone thru The Change, I’d have dreams I was pregnant. My first dream thought would be, oh no, another labour. Good Catholic girl that I was trained as, pain comes easy and I went thru six labours. It wasn’t til my last child, when I was forty seven, that I felt I’d finally mastered this birthing story.

113

Nyker @102, don't feed the troll. Ironically enough, he's scored an own goal by serving as a prime example of your observation that assholes are everywhere.

Honestly this "I have this kink that is now so important that I'm considering leaving if you don't comply, and not just comply but like it as much as I do" seems more and more like a transparent, childish attempt to take his wife's focus off their child and put it back onto him. Babies are 24-hour bundles of need. There has been no time for his needs. He is testing her to see whether she still thinks his needs are important by framing this cast fetish as a "need." Dadddy, even you know from experience that having even a "normal" vanilla sex life is an unreasonable expectation during this phase of parenthood. CAST, grow up and prioritise your kid, who only appears in your letter as almost a postscript.

114

Yes Fan. She’s got all her attention on the baby, because someone has to, and he’s jealous. Here we enter Freudian et al territory. It fits. Bringing this ‘has to be expressed kink’ up now, after x yrs of marriage and only nine months after the baby was born.
My reading of child rearing and psychology books as a young parent could have got me a therapist’s ticket. Dealing with male jealousy, sibling jealousy etc. All the emotions which children bring and activate.

115

Ms Cute - I'm not surprised. Apparently that line gets worse, as it seems Harriet discovers her father and Emma is introduced to him and accepts the acquaintance.

I did wonder in my comment how two characters who called each other "Harriet" and "Miss Woodhouse" from almost the first evening of their meeting through the entire course of the novel were supposed to be equals or anything close.

The best things about the Paltrow version were the Eltons (Alan Cumming and Juliet Stevenson) and Rachel Portman's soundtrack.

116

One, I have no idea how a dude into mummification and with internet access can possibly be surprised at the point of ordering a sleep sack that it's mainly gay dudes who are into it. He's never googled images of this stuff and found them to be 99+% gay? (said the straight woman whose dude is into the same, and who regularly googles both images and gear.) If that's the point at which you're surprised, you've only been into this kink for six minutes and should be grateful that the path to made-to-measure sleep sacks are available online for less than a squillion dollars because the road is paved with mummified gay dudes, christ. Be thankful. If it was up to straights, none of this stuff would be an internet credit card purchase away.

Two: to CAST, I'd say, lead any conversation you have in the next two years with the wife about what you can do for her sexually, to satisfy her needs, and I promise that whatever you need in the way of accommodation will go over better. In other words, quit focusing solely on your kinky desires and give back. Once you have some capital in the bank to spend, introduce what you want as a favor she can do for you in exchange for all the need satisfaction effort you've put forth for your partner, and in gratitude, it's a lot more likely she'll be open to accommodating you. Why two years? Because babies and toddlers are exhausting. The end.

117

Sending good thoughts for Dan, his team, and everyone in the Seattle region.

118

Retch, since smoking is a causal factor, I imagine that irritating the throat is a causal factor. But I'd probably try to address the apnea with different sleeping positions, pt or surgery, idk other options available, while experimenting slowly over time with choking and noting the effects. But I'd also ask my doctor about it.

Cast, if you really wanted your wife to wear a cast, then I think you'd be able to seduce her into doing something that seems harmless. She has already said yes, but she doesn't sound happy about it, and you don't seem to be thinking about how to make it good for her. Others have suggested things that wives may like but you should try to know your wife. The more good associations you create with casts, the better she will feel about them. You seem sort of incapable of seducing your wife... counseling? It sounds like you may want an open relationship or to divorce since you are not talking about your wife's needs in return, maybe you should ask yourself if you want to learn to satisfy her needs better or to find someone else.. Your marriage is doomed if you can't get over your disappointment that your wife is different and not doing what you want instead of focusing your energy towards trying out ways to improve your marriage.. You can keep yourself from resenting your wife by accepting that she is allowed to do what she wants and isn't breaking any promises that she made you. Unless you are kinda trying to destroy the marriage.. There are kinder ways to end a marriage. Maybe a therapist can help you figure out what you want.

Gear, why were you offended, what are you afraid of? It is not a comment on your ability to attract women, I am a woman attracted to Dan and he is gay, gay men can still be irresistible to women, you know. Are you afraid that you might get hit on by a man, or that women may perceive you as uninterested? You can learn to reject men kindly, and show your interest in women more clearly if this worries you, just consider it and do something about it, I'm sure you'll be fine, it's ok...

Ciods "Besides, shame is a big part of how we shape behavior. Might as well use it to our own ends..."
There are other methods of influence or guidance, I didn't think that shame was an approved parenting method, I suggest that shame is generally effective at both influence and harm, so to see shame as a tool sounds sadistic.

119

It’s not an approved parenting method, Philo @118, you’re right.. not if you want to raise solid human beings. Shame i think is for oneself only, when one has done a shameful thing. What is a shameful thing? Good question. Hurting others is my answer. Wilfully hurting others.
With you Erica, sending love and no contact hugs to all in Seattle.

120

Except where hurting others is part of a kink or such.. I forget sometimes how broad the Dan Church is.
GEAR I don’t see as homophobic, rather his hetero assumptions are being confronted.
Since same sex marriage has been legalised, there is not a Legal reason for homosexuals to hide. So the guy on the phone Openly talked of gay male love. He was also flirting. Openly. To a customer. who he assumed was also a gay man.
GEAR is no doubt a man who accepts others’ differences . As long as those people know their place in the Patriarchy... The repercussions from same sex marriage are continuing to reverberate thru culture because while some male heterosexuals accepted homosexuals before same sex marriage, best they didn’t upset the Order of things.
Well now they have.

121

That he wrote to Dan points to some serious concerns for this boy. He writes to arguably the head honcho of visible gay men, making this complaint. It’s like he’s saying ‘ Dan. Please remind your troops that, well, should I have to spell it out?’
Poor patriarchal hetero men, getting it from all sides. Challenges to their assumed power.

122

Greetings from Savagville and thanks to all well wishers.
St. John Waters to the rescue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMWoeFYkiLU&fbclid=IwAR1GxItw7zaQoVA0aja_WdjDEhzodDkUyIy9CQm5zCx5cnjxaxwpv70qTys

123

@100 Helenka (also a Canuck): WA-HOOOOO!!! Congrats on scoring this week's Big Hunsky Award! Savor the highly coveted SL glory. :)

Spring Forward and Daylight Savings Time are back this morning, folks. Time to reset clocks ahead one hour (I know--it sucks about losing an hour of sleep!). But at least spring is coming.

125

Ms Cute - After hearing about a dozen reviews, the most striking aspect of them as a whole is that not one mentioned Jane Fairfax, either the character or the performer in the role, although some did mention the music and that apparently everyone who plays in the film also does so in real life.

The only version I've heard that clearly establishes Emma's admission, "My playing is no more like hers than a lamp is like sunshine," was the BBC radio version starring Angharad Rees.

126

Bit late to this, but Sleep Apnea LW can take a couple of practical steps to minimize or eliminate the apnea (in addition to not being too fat, not drinking too much, not smoking):
1. Sleep on an incline. Raising your torso will help keep your airway open, while still allowing you to sleep. I just raise the entire mattress using a custom-cut wedge cushion.
2. Start playing didgeridoo. It's great for exercising your throat muscles (and all the other muscles involved). It has helped me eliminate my sleep apnea and most of my snoring, plus it's extremely relaxing/meditative. I don't give blow jobs, rough or otherwise, but I imagine it might help LW add a few more tricks to his repertoire as well...

127

It’s not giving in Hunter if he finds a way to help her enjoy it. First off, he focuses this intense concern onto his child and their survival, rather than himself. His wife.. the baby’s mother.. will notice. That he has become as concerned for their baby as she is. Then her heart will open to him. From there they turn it into a game, create scenarios. Because now, now he’s onboard with love and concern for his child First, she’ll be more open to play.
If some worker in the office was not focused on their work and left it to others to do, resentment would build. A baby around is life and death. No room for slackers.

128

For most, intense parenting covers a few years. Then they start to move away from parents, towards peers. If the child has a disability, a different story.
CAST; Your obsession with your kink, at this time, with a small baby to care for, is unseemly. Who cares? I have to stop and take a deep breath to contain the anger I feel at the thought of your selfishness.

129

How is everyone going? Taking VitC I hope maybe some D too if you haven’t been seeing the sun. Where’s Danny when you need him. I never remember jokes.

130

Donny. Maybe a Danny out there has jokes too?
Lose of memory is a real shit. Feel the old brain starting to shut up shop.

131

A pompous minister was seated next to a cowboy on a flight to Oklahoma. After the plane was airborne, drink orders were taken. The cowboy asked for a whiskey and soda, which was brought and placed before him.
The flight attendant then asked the minister if he would like a drink?
He replied in disgust, "I'd rather be savagely raped by a brazen whore than let liquor touch my lips!"
The cowboy then handed his drink back to the attendant and said, "Gosh darn, I didn't know we had a CHOICE."

132

@129 LavaGirl: I hope all is well your way. Vitamin C is good. I am taking Magnesium. Vitamin D, & Vitamin B-12 supplements, along with my hormones (increased Progesterone and Estradiol patches), thyroid and blood pressure meds. I went to see my gynecologist last week, and have chronic endometriosis. She is recommending surgery to hopefully end what has been 43 years of untreated misery, and is shocked at what the VA, my mother, and others simply shrugged off. My mother, who suffered from menorrhagia and dysmenorrhea herself, I blame most directly for stubbornly and cruelly insisting that I was always making up my aches, pains, and heavy bleeding just 'to get out of doing household chores'. At least my chronic condition is being addressed now. The uterine ablation I had done six years ago has otherwise been a blessed relief. No more hemorrhaging, at least. I am no longer anemic.
@131 DonnyKlicious: LOL You are a treasure.

135

Good one Donny Griz is right, you are a treasure.

136

Nothing but the sound of crickets lately. I hope Mr. Savage is okay!

137

Hunter @124, "hate herself" is a very strong turn of phrase. Will she resent him? It's likely. She's agreed to this under duress. Absent any quid pro quo or expression of gratitude on CAST's part -- which doesn't seem forthcoming unless he changes his attitude -- she will see participating in this fetish as the one-sided favour it is, and it will not improve her impression of the man she married and who fathered her child. Whether she grows to hate herself for giving in, versus him for putting her in this position, depends on her self-esteem.

139

Sigh, I'm clearly the minority here, but I would really hate being put in a cast, and don't think it's a small ask to be immobilized. The only time I felt panicked during sex was when I got wrapped up in sheets and couldn't move, and that was only for a few minutes, not two hours! His wife could be the same way. It's not easy, as a woman, to agree to put yourself in situations where you feel held down, trapped and powerless. CAST says that he just want her in a cast for a couple of hours while they watch TV. He gave the impression it's just a fake cast on her arm or leg; if so why and how did the earlier attempt fail? It's strange that he gave Dan no information about this. It has to be more than what he is saying - unless she had to slip the cast off early to go take care of the baby. So then, how does this work with a baby/young toddler in the house? Are they going to get a babysitter to take care of the kid while they play? If they do then the kink play wouldn't be private at all, would it? That might bothers his wife if she's a private or reserved person - having the babysitters speculating and gossiping about what they see. And what if he later demands more? More immobilization, more than just watching TV while wearing a cast. What if he gets off on frightening her while she can't move? I believe this is just the tip of his kink iceberg, and he will coerce her to more things she finds uncomfortable, or even frightening, once she agrees to this first step.

And to threaten to leave a marriage with a brand new baby, unless his wife agrees enthusiastically to what he wants (while he didn't say this in the letter, clearly it's what he communicated to his wife, thus her offer to accommodate). Where's the love, the loyalty, the friendship, the responsibility to his family and his marriage?

I agree with Hunter and Erica P. This guy is setting off all of my danger warnings. If he's not abusive, then he's looking to leave his wife and baby, and using his kink as an excuse to blame his wife for his actions.

140

Oh, dear. Was I trolled again, or was that me babbling off topic? Comments @133 and @134 seem to have been pulled.
@135 LavaGirl: Hopefully my comment @132 wasn't TMI (too much information). I am looking into healthy options as my gynecologist recommends that I get a hysterectomy.
@138 cockyballsup: 73c degrees Fahrenheit in Rhode Island? Lucky you!
@139 iseult: Whether or not you feel that you're in the minority, I agree with you regarding CAST, too. You are so spot on---I was wondering a lot of the same things! Could we be related?

141

@136 fubar: I notice that comments @133 and @134 were pulled. I don't remember saying anything inappropriate. Was there trolling? I have been out of commission lately, due to severe body pain (re: comment @132).

Dan, is everything okay?

142

Iseult @139, thanks for your post. The cast attempt was pre-baby ("we had a single failed attempt a few years ago") but good point that he didn't say why the attempt failed. Did she freak out? Does she have a phobia of being immobilised? Absent a phobia, I think that some negotiation is possible here. But you're right that she has the absolute right to say no to this, ideally with a side order of "you can go get that need met elsewhere." He committed to her under conditions of her not meeting this need, and now he "resents" her for his own decision. I'm not getting abuser alarm bells, but I'm definitely getting the impression that he wants out of this marriage and is using this kink as an excuse.

Griz @141, I believe comments 133 and 134 were spell caster spam. I do wish there would be an announcement about the change of format if the Stranger has decided to discontinue the SL Letters of the Day.

143

Ms Fan/Ms Grizelda - Yes; those were spellcaster posts. I am listening to the podcast now, which began with Mr Savage's saying he's out of town and therefore his opening rant would not be about Super Tuesday. (It may well have been his poorly-sung parody that made me think of Sweden a few days ago.)

144

I don't have a lot to add this week, but in the absence of anything juicer to get my fix -RETCH is probably comfortably performing 20 minute plus blow jobs.

CAST is a real arse, and probably deserves to have a broken finger on his wanking hand at least, and see how sexy he finds that. But on the other hand, Mrs CAST could easily whack on a fake, pour a glass of wine and sit down and watch Rear Window with hubby. And, hey, at least he didn't fixate on Vertigo.

I will have to take Dan's word on the appropriate response to being mistaken for straight - I'm not really flamboyant or camp (the best thing about coming out for me was bering able to listen to Madonna openly) but the only person I ever surprised was my brother, and that was only because we managed to avoid talking for a good 15 years before I came out to him. (I'm told it has something to do with my ability to hold sustained conversations with women's faces) I will add that homophobia is, in my opinion, a bit of a misnomer - GEAR is heterosexist, a discursive position which allows him to assume that his mummification fetish is wholesome and healthy, not at all like that perverted gay bondage the gays do.

I must disagree with Mr Venn - the world would be a happier place if everyone were compelled to read Persuasion, at least. But I suspect the literary reference you want is Phillip Larkin - they fuck you up, your mum and dad, they don't mean to but they do... CAST and Mrs CAST as surely as every other human parent.

145

Damn, I missed the sex spells. That woman doesn't need a witch doctor, she needs a witch divorce lawyer.

147

It's funny you mention that dadddy. In my experience trying out new kinks fail because the person asking for them doesn't have a clear idea of what they want or are going about it in an unsafe way. (Think about all the subs who want to be dominated but have no concept of what to ask for specifically).

I've never broken anything, but I do have a pretty wicked case of carpal tunnel and sometimes have to wear heavy, metal boned bracers in the evening to keep my wrists straight. It's maddening. Itchy, restrictive, I can't comfortably hold anything and there's no way to ever get them clean enough to get the smell out. So I totally understand Mrs. Cast's reluctance.

If she wasn't into it and said as much but then agreed to do it for the sake of their relationship (which is how he put it in the letter) then he needs to focus on how he can make the experience more pleasurable for her.

149

The audacity of these men! I'm a straight woman, "self-partnered," no pregnancy for me, thanks, and it's fucking AUDACIOUS what these men expect to be serviced as. I have kinks too, bro!

Just finished In the Dream House and starting Recollections from my Non-Existence today. I can't imagine having the chutzpah to be like "look, dude, this is what I want in bed and you're gonna deliver!"

150

You sure you’ve had children Dadddy? Remember when you had a nine month old in the house.. this is nothing to do with her not being GGG.
Prudishness! ! Funny. This is putting a cast on, no big deal, until the family and marriage are threatened over it. The guy’s a douche, and though it sometimes seems you are getting the point, you go and slip right back.

151

Recollections from your non existence, DC270, sounds intense.
One word for you, Patriarchy.

152

BDF, "Whether she grows to hate herself for giving in, versus him for putting her in this position, depends on her self-esteem."
In order to work on a relationship it seems best to assume no bad intentions. Although suspicions that we have inadvertently sought out mistreatment and secretly hate ourselves, or encountered someone who secretly wants to cause us pain and hates us, seem natural and should be investigated politely: "Why do you do X when it hurts me? Why don't you do Y when it would make me so happy?" and they must be able to answer for themselves "why do I do X when it hurts my spouse, why don't I do Y when it would make my spouse happy?" Did his kink grow more important or his marriage less important, and why? I don't think assigning fault is useful, I think it's more useful to identify possible sadism or masochism. If they were starting to hate themselves or suspect possible masochism, they should ask, "why do I do X when it hurts me, why don't I do Y when it would make me happy?" and persuade themselves or a therapist that they have sound reasons or are addressing the problem. This guy doesn't seem to have a reason for his emotional and behavioral changes around his kink, so maybe it's simple sadism, but maybe at heart he doesn't feel he deserves a happy family and it's masochism.. The resentment he feels about her implies he blames her for their conflicts which implies sadism though..

I think sadism and masochism can be handled ethically, once identified, I try to take responsibility for any sadism or masochism of mine, when I get grouchy, or depressed, like wanting to be alone, or feeling lonely in life.

Dadddy, "she's simply not GGG"
It is weird that he says nothing about why his wife is reluctant, and coupled with the resentment it seems clear that he is assuming that she isn't GGG, that she gave up first. But it's also weird that he doesn't report any attempts to make it good for her or explain his change or why it turns him on even, so it seems like the simplest explanation is that he is so focused on fulfilling his own lack of happiness that he has lost interest in his wife's happiness, or effectively fallen out of love or gave up or whatnot. I wouldn't like to assume though. It would be rude and ineffective communication to assume ill intentions or irresponsible behavior on either party's part if they are reading.

I do think it's good to leave a marriage if you can't protect yourself or your spouse anymore... Since he made a promise and a kid, I hope that he tries everything he can think of to turn her on to his kink or outsource it or think of a different way to express it before he ends his marriage over it. The resentment is really nasty because the worst thing he reports of his wife is that she said that she would do what he wants to save the marriage, yet he doesn't describe putting any effort into her pleasure at all. I think he'd feel better if he ended his marriage before he started mistreating his wife in resentment. I don't think it's useful to take it personally when someone doesn't want to do what you want. Because then you won't bother to talk about what exactly they are objecting to, or find a compromise that might work a lot better than giving up and going separate ways. It's sad to give up a dream, dreams of marriage and family and children and hot sex, I hope he can find a way to get all of it in a way that makes him generally happy.

And I hope he can place more priority on his kid than his kink, at least for the formative years, poor kid.

153

@142 BiDanFan: Thank you for letting me know about the pulled comments. Sex spell caster spam. That's a new one for me. No more SLLOTD?? Dan and everybody, say it ain't so!
@143 vennominon: Thank you, too, for the update on Dan.

Dan the Man--I hope you're enjoying a kickass vacation!

154

Venn @143, thank you for that. Yes, we forget Dan is a political journalist too, and he is busy with the primaries. Hopefully the daily letters will return when things quiet down.

Pan @144: "GEAR is heterosexist, a discursive position which allows him to assume that his mummification fetish is wholesome and healthy, not at all like that perverted gay bondage the gays do." Perfectly said!

Dadddy @148, just noting that you're the one who used the term "simple kinks."
I don't think anyone is ignoring Occam's Razor here. Sure, the simplest explanation is that she felt silly or otherwise just didn't want to play along. There's nothing he can do about that, but there ARE things he can do if the answer to "what went wrong" is otherwise, which is why several commenters have mentioned those alternate possibilities. The answer to "what went wrong" also answers the key question of which party is being unreasonable, which I think is extremely important, and which we don't know from the facts given. I mean, we know he's being unreasonable, but we don't know whether she is too.

Lava @150, again, the failed attempt happened before the kid happened. He doesn't say whether it happened before or after the wedding.

Philo @152 re "she's simply not GGG": excellent counter theory. If she simply weren't GGG, she wouldn't have said yes to the attempt in the first place. Being GGG does not require a second attempt at something that was awful for you the first time. Who knows whether, from her perspective, this attempt was so traumatic it put her off ever trying it again? (And if it did, she is a hero for saying she will do it again, absent any attempt on his part to make the experience enjoyable for her too, which I cannot see in his letter.)

155

Mr Pan - No; it would be a better world if everyone were persuaded.

156

Re cast: I don't think it's unfair if his wife felt silly about his request or didn't want to play along, only if she shamed him for his kink or said that his pleasure wasn't a good reason to try it, or otherwise showed him disrespect. If she's simply not into it or repulsed by it somehow, he can improve the situation by providing good associations (appreciation) during/after each attempt or new conversation about it.

157

BDF, nice to speak with you again. London is in my prayers, as is Washington.

158

Oh Dan! Your 'final thoughts' to the fellow into mummification should be recited back to me daily as a reminder of what I've had to do in my life. I'm not alone, I know, and just hearing beautiful summary, makes a huge difference.