Savage Love

Amazed and Confused

Comments

1

Love the suggestion of "the assist." People assuming sex needs to be all or nothing is annoyingly similar to people who think eating meat is all or nothing ("Oh I'd love to be vegetarian but I like steak too much.") Doesn't mean you can't just eat it a bit less often.

2

second!

3

Maybe if CLIT’s hubby looked after the kids more, and CLIT looked after them less, until the level of exhaustion, anxiety and distraction were equalized, they could meet in the middle somewhere.

4

I stopped caring after "better then"

5

LOADS - Sounds like LOADS is rejecting Mr LOADS almost all the time except when she's so horny she can have sex with him while he talks about salty loads, every few months. I'd advise initiating sex often but stopping and walking away if he starts talking about salty loads. If it ruins sex for you, stop sex when it happens. If you are willing to tolerate the talk a little bit in bed, then once he has stopped doing it routinely, and you've gotten happy with just the two of you again, tell him that you are going to initiate it sometimes because you want him to be happy too. And follow through. If he initiates it, stop sex. Either you'll get back to good sex, or decide it's not very possible and have sex with others instead. I didn't like Dan's answer, that good sex would be impossible because wife was too turned off by the thought of small dick sucking, while she seems pretty open minded to me, I think Dan's prejudice crept in.
"If you can look at your husband and think, “Things are better than ever!”, despite the dismal state of your sex life, LOADS, I hate to think what life with him used to be like."
Or maybe it was a bad mood, because people can be really happy with life even if there is zero sex happening.

CLIT - Great advice. But it would have been nice to stick the landing too; PIV, PIA, PIM? Sex does not just involve a P, this part is less likely to encourage CLIT's enthusiasm.

6

@3 - I sort of doubt it. Could make the problem worse. I have the high libido in my relationship, but am also the one who works more than full time, has to do the chores or at the very least constantly tell my wife and kids something needs to be done, does the majority of the coming, etc.

Stress makes me horny and I want sex more even when I am severely overworked. Conversely, even small amounts of stress really activate her breaks if you have read Come As You Are by Emily Nagowski.

People react differently to stress, overworking and all that.

That said, Hubby should definitely be giving his wife regular breaks from the kids because children are incredibly exhausting, especially if you don't get consistent, long breaks from them. Just because it's the right thing to do.

That could be one thing making sex hard, but I can guarantee at best it's only one obstacle, and more work will be required on both their parts. If that work comes only from the high libido partner as is often the case, it won't end well.

7

Hello? When was wanting to suck another guy's cock a "kink"?

8

@3, she says “us both taking care of the kids”. No indication that he is doing any less childcare than she is.

9

Why didn't Dan suggest that Clit's husband might be gay?

10

LOADS says she wants "to get the focus back on just the two of us."

But, really, she wants the focus on her needs, and not his. She wants sex the way she likes it, not the way he likes it.

They'll have more chance of figuring out a compromise if she stops pretending that her preferences are the right way for "the two of us."

Maybe give him a small dildo to suck during sex. And then she wears a blindfold, or he fucks her from behind, or they fuck in the dark like many married couples.

11

@7, what would you call it?
Remember dude is presumably married to a woman, if he was an out gay then it could be perfectly normal and not a "kink" but he married a woman and is subjecting her to talk she doesn't want to hear. OK, maybe not it is not a "kink", what is the word for of "the desire to be an asshole"? Though, on second thought, maybe the LW is a man with a large dick, and it is not the sucking dick that bothers him, it is sucking a different (smaller) dick than the LW has? in which case fetish probably is a better word, but I'm going with asshole either way.

@8, @3 didn't really say LW was doing any less, they said LW should do more (after all, he's the one who wants more sex). Could also be more cooking, cleaning, foot rubs etc. to the same end.

12

@1: WA-HOOOOOO!!!!! Congratulations to jack chandelier on scoring this week's FIRDT Award! Savor the highly coveted SL honors. :)

13

@2:...unless you'd rather be known as Number Two....?
Avis--We Try Harder! :)

Warm and salty loads......all I can imagine is male cum with the consistency of hot, sticky, rubber cement. Like a hot little glue gun. Pistols at ten paces!!! I feel for the LW. Her husband is not being considerate about his obsession with sucking a small dick. I agree with fubar @7, however---that's not really a kink. not this day and age, anyway.

14

@4 myself -- I see it's been fixed.
@9, I think Dan might say something about hearing from lots of putatively straight guys who just happen to like sucking cock. It's not unheard of.

15

You called it Dan. Re LW1. Even if he toned down the cock sucking talk during sex, LOADS knows he’s thinking of it, using those images to get off.
What a rude man, and maybe Dan’s advice is the best way forward, LW. He goes and sucks cock and you find a more deserving of you, lover.

16

I wouldn’t classify Mr LOADS as straight. If he’s bi, then why doesn’t he get off on fucking his wife/ a cis woman. He may not be attracted to her or he may truthfully feel that about all cis women.

17

Taking care of children is exhausting, but CLIT does indicates that Mr. Clit is also sharing in that labor. Is he not doing enough? Then, CLIT should focus on that fact, and get the workload more evenly balanced. Every man of 40 should know how to do laundry, empty the dishwasher, change linens, clean bathroom, etc.

But I would focus on two other words that CLIT uses to describe why she does not want sex. She is "anxious" and "distracted." Having anxiety and difficulty maintain focus in the moment, are something that CLIT needs to focus on herself. There will always be things that cause us worry, but we can learn to let go as well and train our minds to eliminate extraneous thoughts that crowd out our ability to be present. CLIT needs to focus on doing that.

However, that presupposes that parenting responsibilities, anxiety, and distractions are genuinely the cause of her low libido and are not something she tells herself to paper of the reality of just being a person with a low sex drive. If that is her truth, then she may need to be honest with herself and with Mr. Clit.

18

LOADS, ball gag. Problem solved.

Fubar @7, fantasies of sucking a small cock to completion and telling his partner all about it are clearly a kink for this guy. He can't STFU even three shags out of four. Surely he's noticed he's not getting much sex, and if that's not motivating him to keep his fantasies in his head, then it does seem this is a fetish that's more important than his laudably GGG wife. Whose only mistake, indeed, was to think that "getting this out of his system" would allow him to put it in the past. He CAN help himself, if she says she'll terminate the sex immediately whenever he mentions warm and salty loads (and does so). But it seems he'd indeed rather go without sex than have sex without incorporating this kink for talking about cocksucking that turns his partner off. A hall pass might fix the problem. If not, ball gag, duct tape or DTMFA.

CLIT's letter is the flip side of yesterday's SLLOTD. It sounds like CLIT's drive has temporarily decreased due to the lockdown; is this the case? I had one year at university when I was also working full time and putting lots of time into a career-related activity, leaving no time for me to think about sex. This was temporary and my drive came back when my life was more balanced. I'm not sure a compromise can be reached between a once-a-week-is-plenty and a multiple-times-a-day, and if this is their normal I'm not sure how they got this far. If only hers has changed, I do think she should try to figure out what used to get her going and try to replicate those conditions. It also sounds like she could be suffering from anxiety -- I mean, who isn't -- so perhaps therapy or relaxation techniques could help with that. Yoga, aromatherapy and sexy music before bed perhaps?

Sitting on one's face while fully dressed, Dan? Wut? Does Mr CLIT have a jeans fetish we don't know about?

19

Separately, I would add that there are studies that low libido persons who are encouraged to engage sexually with partners who take the time to get them aroused find sex to be pleasurable, including the orgasms they experience.

If CLIT always waits until she wants sex, she and Mr. CLIT may end up having less sex, but if CLIT allows Mr. Clit to get her aroused through foreplay, she may find herself wanting and enjoying sex more often. She may also find herself less anxious and distracted during sexual play than while contemplating it.

20

He accepts only having sex once every couple of months, what gives with these two. They have been together a dozen years and everything is great except the sex, so far so heard before...
/ LOADS, this is a tough one, because I see no solution except your man goes forth and sucks cock on the regular. Would that change how he feels about sex with you, is what you’d find out after.
Or, change how you define your relationship. I don’t see there are children, so why not live together and enjoy the good parts of your connection, yet have separate sex lives.
/ Dan talking of kinks is to point out that these fantasies are going nowhere, so LOADS needs to work with him and develop creative solutions so both find satisfaction.

21

CLIT, your husband is telling you clearly what he’s feeling, ie humiliated, and ignored ie, no couple time to romance each other, is made.
Yes, I’ve reared kids and know how crowded one feels, then think of what gets you in the mood. A long hot bath, glass of wine and time to read a book, while he keeps all at bay?

22

One change that seems obvious, from his side, is that he "could go multiple times a day." In the before-time, no he couldn't because they were both at work. Even if he wanted sex multiple times a day, he only had one opportunity each weekday to propose it. Now that they are (presumably) both home all day, he is attempting to initiate sex whenever he feels horny, which is several times a day. So at the same time her drive has gone awol because she's so worried, he's putting more pressure on her. He should, at minimum, dial back the seduction attempts to what they would be if they were both out of the house. That will help her feel less pressured, and if she simultaneously works on the anxiety, that may help them find the medium where they were presumably both happy up to two months ago.

(I read a recent Facebook thread where approximately half the people said their libidos were going through the roof during lockdown and the other half said they had disappeared entirely. Looks like we've got one of each in this relationship, which is unfortunate indeed.)

23

l-dub 1, don't see a high probability of a happy ending here for you. you and the husband are not sexually compatible. he doesn't seem particularly reasonable about how his kink relates to you and your marriage, but whatever. the story is... he's just not that into you. gotta deal or accept at this point.

l-dub 2, 'the assist,' seeing what you can do to get in the mood another time a week... these are good suggestions. good luck!

24

What jumped out from L2 was that LW "thinks" rather than "feels" once a week is more than enough. Credit to Mr Savage for having been particularly consistent on this issue lately.

LW1 (with whom I entirely sympathize) does have one of the more interesting inadvertent gender/sex reveals of recent times.

25

He couldn’t be pressuring her several times a day, that would be pushy. Isn’t there kids about.
Interesting what Happy Anarchist @6 writes about stress making him horny. Do many men feel this way?
Also as HappyA @6 mentions, if one doesn’t put the work in to keep the marriage bubbling along, attend to it along with all the other areas one attends to in life, then trouble is more likely to come.

26

And look at all you’ve got LW, great husband, kids etc, and yet you ignore your husband’s feelings. Once a week seems stingy to me, and you’re only forty.
Those feelings of being crowded by others’ needs can go on for years and years, so what, the marriage dries up in the mean time? Husband can’t take it anymore feeling so frustrated and he slips off and starts an affair. Then wham.
Enjoy your husband sexually CLIT, and try for sex of some kind more than once a week.

27

CLIT doesn't need to be "as randy as he is" to have sex more than once a week. Where did this belief that one should only have sex when one is feeling horny come from? Do you enjoy sex with your husband, CLIT? What is your opposition to letting him distract you from your worries and obligations with some mutually enjoyable sex? You don't say you don't enjoy it; you just say you don't independently crave it. Regardless of how often you'd ideally be having sex, how often ARE you having sex? You know what needs to happen, you need to meet him halfway. It sounds like she has always had a lower drive and presumed his would decrease with age, which sounds as wishful-thinking as presuming a partner who doesn't want kids would magically change their mind. CLIT, your husband has a high sex drive. Don't sit around waiting for this to change, this is who he is. Does he make sex enjoyable for you? Then do your best to get yourself into the mood for him, more than once a week. I agree with Lava, that is less than enough.

28

@25 Lava...stress doesn't necessarily make me horny but sex is a great escape from life, and for me at least, a great reliever of stress. That brain soup of post sex chemicals is my favorite drug, I'm a junkie. My wife is exactly the opposite, stress is a total boner killer for her. One of many sexual issues we had along with the libido mismatch, which she hated to ever hear about and she wouldn't admit to.

I may be wrong but I caught a whiff of something else that was a problem in my marriage in CLIT's letter, which is that the kids ALWAYS came first. I think that is a problem with the current crop of parents. We hover over our kids way more than necessary.

When I was a kid I played all day in the creek, drank from a hose, played on playgrounds full of scalding hot rusty metal slides and jungle gyms, and came home at dark 30. I survived. It was a brilliant childhood full of adventure that made me very independent and self reliant. No one was a boomerang kid, you grew up, moved out, and made your way in life.

In my house, the needs of our relationship were always last on the list, after work, the kids, the dogs, the bills, the house, our aging parents, etc. There was a never ending supply of reasons NOT to focus on us. I just wanted to hang with my gal even if that meant just taking a bath with a glass of wine. Sometimes it would have been nice to put US first, she wasn't having it.

29

@22 “ he couldn't because they were both at work”. He might have been getting it on at work. Or a quick stop during his commute.

30

I wish that the hive mind of collective wisdom could move on from this notion that married moms would want more sex if their husbands would only "help out." This is throw back to Dear Abby and hardly useful in modern times. What ladies in book clubs will tell you is that their husbands badger them to have sex and the sex is not very good. Your typical Chad is selfish. So not only does Mrs. Chad have to make sure the kids remember their homework and the dentist appointments are kept and the Christmas cards are sent, she has to provide for his sexual satisfaction. Also, lest Chad feel less than manly, she needs to make sure she gets off or otherwise seems appreciative. Your typical hetero cis married gig is so much damn work for poor old mom! She is supposed to get immense satisfaction from meeting other people's needs. The only women I know who are not a bit bitter are those married to "spoilers." One has a partner who really wines and dines her; the other is a man with an oral fixation. These ladies feel like their lovers' focus and passion is THEM.

31

'It doesn't take too long to piss on someone in the tub'. Bravo to Daniel Savage! Also bravo to CLIT if she takes up this excellent advice. (Should her husband like it, of course). My experience is that it's not always easy for cishet women to make the conceptual and emotional leap from micturition to sexual engagement. Maybe mothers associate pee with giving care to babies.

The letter reminds me of the old advice to Anglicans to send their children to Sunday school so they can have sex once a week. That isn't enough for the lw's husband; but I don't think it an appalling compromise. Maybe in her shoes I'd make sure I actually do put out once a week, rather than worrying about upping the frequency.

32

BDF @18: My take on LOADS' husband was simply that he's gay or bi, and needs to fantasize about cock to get off with his wife. I don't think it's a kink. I think it's a deception.

I'd also say he's submissive, but his rationale for preferring small cock sounds contrived. And being unable or unwilling to STFU about his fantasy is just rude, stupid, or both.

I have a friend in a similar situation. She originally indulged her husband by playing Domme. It progressed to sissifying, pegging, and "forcing" him to suck cock. Now he's a full-time panty wearing sissy, and she's not getting laid. The genie is not going back into the bottle.

33

@5. Philophile. Wait... Is the letter a writer a penis-haver or not? Is the kink of the husband sucking off a small dick impossible because the lw's dick is not small or because the lw does not have a dick? I read Dan's aside about women being socialised not to voice their dissatisfactions emphatically to men as just an aside--not, that is, as an indication that the lw was female, but more as saying something like 'on this point, you would be like a woman'.

@12. Griz. Well done on your equable and consistent congratulations!

@13. Griz. I agree about the phrase 'warm and salty loads'. He's not exactly selling it, is he? And he's talking as if he wants to swallow a big load, and he fantasises about small dicks. Seems confused.

34

Fubar @32, thanks for clarifying. Now you mention it, the small cock thing does seem odd. I wonder if the guy Mr LOADS picked to indulge his "fantasy" was a guy whose cock size he already (intimately) knew. It seems odd that this kink would emerge 10 years into an "amazing" relationship, but LOADS's options seem clear. She's told him, and proven by withholding sex, that the cock talk is a turn-off. He's told her, and proven, that he doesn't actually want sex much unless it includes cock talk. She could try giving him a hall pass to go suck as much cock as he likes and see if having that outlet helps him shut up about it while he's with her. If that doesn't work, ball gag or break up.

35

Harriet @33, I think it's reasonable to conclude that LOADS does not have a dick for her partner (not husband) to suck or "warm and salty loads" for him to swallow and is therefore female.

37

Cock Sucker -- this seems like fodder for divorce to me. You're a woman, he seems to ONLY want to suck dick. You've participated and, well, no. Get thee to a marriage counselor and figure out if this is salvageable.
Horny Husband -- helping him dump his loads however he chooses is a great compromise. You don't even need to touch him. Hell, maybe you can agree that he can have a webcam girl.

38

Fubar @ 32
Sorry to hear about your friend. It seems like she was very accommodating a selfish partner who only focused on his own needs and desires.
I would like to stress though that while people like your friend’s (hopefully ex) partner or Mr. LOADS there are many other kinksters out there who are more than willing to accommodate their partners’ needs and desires.

I would advice those who are about to bring up a kink to first communicate to their partners in different ways that they are valued because of who they are, as opposed to nothing but kink facilitators.
Those asked to go along with a kink have a right to ask “what’s in it for me” and negotiate some parameters prior to indulgence. Their wants and needs do not need to be strictly sexual though may be tied to the kinkster’s preferences.
One who wants to be dominated and dressed up in the bedroom may be asked to prove their loyalty beyond bedroom play and thoroughly clean the house on a weekend prior to being pegged. Maid uniform optional.
Those into warm salty loads may be asked to thoroughly eat their partner first and/or treat them to a nice dinner, and so on.

39

Stress as horniness inducing came up few times in this thread. Based on my experience as well as observing others and listening to their accounts it is quite common and not exclusive to men.
Sexual acts and habits of any sort can be used as an escape, stress relief, dealing with a trauma, and so on.
Nothing is necessarily wrong with any of it. What’s important is to keep things in proportion and incorporate your desires in a balanced, healthy ways as opposed to compulsion that takes toll on your time management and resources, behaviors that can put one in risk, forgoing things you must do despite of being deemed as stressful and unpleasant, and so on.

40

Apparently I have an inclination to end my philosophical posts with a vague "and so on."

41

@fubar: "his rationale for preferring small cock sounds contrived"

Wanting to suck cock isn't a kink, but wanting to suck small cocks in particular might be.

42

Long time reader, new to the comments section. There’s some great advice here. I’m a 40 something woman who’s been with my husband for 20 + years.
What works for us is pretty simple:
One, we make time for each other, even if that’s just 3-4 couch “date nights” a week to watch a show after the kids go to bed. Sometimes these dates lead to sex, sometimes we just go to sleep- if we haven’t already fallen asleep on the couch :). This goes a long way to helping us feel connected and making sure that we keep time for us as an important priority in our lives. Even if she’s very tired, CLIT could try setting up a night or two a week to just “hang out” with her husband once the kids are asleep (or maybe before they’re up?) and do something they both like- a show, a game, go for a walk, just talk, whatever. Putting these things on the calendar- showing her husband that he matters to her and is worthy of her time, even not as it relates to sex- may go a long way towards helping him feel better.

The second thing that has always worked well for us is to try not to ever reject the others sexual advances. Sometimes we’re both “in the mood” and the sex is amazing, sometimes only one of us is, and it’s sometimes it’s just ok, but it’s always a nice way to feel close. We’re always respectful if one of us says no, but what we’ve found is that even if one of us isn’t initially feeling it, with some foreplay generally it’s pretty easy to get into it :). I’m not saying CLIT should have sex with her husband 3 times a day, but maybe if she made an effort to initiate- maybe even just one time a week, even if she didn’t really feel “in the mood”, and then tried to say yes to his attempts more often (providing of course that he’s willing to go in for foreplay and things that she likes!), they may find themselves in a much happier place. And she might find that she enjoys having sex more (a great stress relief, as many have said!) even if she doesn’t always start off feeling “in the mood”. If he was getting sex even three times a week, instead of one, and if she was starting one of those sessions, it may not seem like he needs sex three times a day any more- or he at least may not feel sad and hurt about the frequency being less.

43

A more immediate-term suggestion, LOADS: tell him to jack off over a cup next time he masturbates and then freeze that sucker. Warm it up next time you feel like indulging his kink and feed it back to him (off your fingers or a dildo) while you do something sexy YOU enjoy, too. At the very least, it would help the two of you figure out whether the kink is the taste/feel/doing something "naughty" or whether he's more interested in the man the smaller dick would be attached to.

44

@Hachacha @36:
"Re: CLIT, Dan is 100% off-base. "he says makes him feel undesirable and humiliated" - the answer is not for her to stand there while he beats off to her tits. Talk about feeling undesired and humiliated, that's something dominatrixes make their subs do!"

I've found plenty of men enjoy beating off onto my tits. None of them subs, either. And who said she's just standing there? She could be lying down, writhing, or kneeling in front of him, or any number of things.

45

Funny Tim @37. A web cam girl. That does constitute cheating and we’re here to help head this couple on another path.
Good ideas hI313b @42: lovely connection you and your husband have. I think three times a week too, and that CLIT opens up one of those sessions. Yes, desire does get lost under all those roles, so each person does need to attend to their sex spark.
Maybe some weekly self pleasuring CLIT, fantasy of your choice, to remind yourself of the pleasure involved.
Fascinating idea Slartibartfast @43.

46

@32 fubar & @34 BiDanFan: LOADS' spouse's small cock fetish once again reminds me of Susan Sarandon's newly divorced music teacher, Jane Spofford from The Witches of Eastwick. The 1987 film's three leading ladies, Sarandon, Cher (playing a local sculptress, Alexandra Medford, a widow with a teenage daughter), and Michelle Pfieffer (as local newspaper reporter Sukie Ridgemont, whose husband left her with six kids, all daughters. Unlike Alex and Sukie, Jane has no children of her own) have a weekly social ritual, a Girls' Thursday Night In. This time, it's at Alex'a house. Equipped with martinis and snacks, the ladies fantasize about their ultimate dream man:
Sukie (giggling): Huge!
Jane (wistfully): I prefer small.
Alexandra (scoffing): Oh, yeah, right, Jane!
Jane: No, really, aesthetically speaking. Sam was huge, and there were times when I just could not face it.

47

@32 fubar: I think you nailed it about LOADS' spouse being gay or bi. The LW's unhappy situation about no sex life (but better lately? Really?) suggests that her husband is not only gay / bi but closeted, as well. LOADS doesn't mention having any children after twelve years. I'm wondering if she should just DTCSA (Dump The Cock-Sucker Already) if he really needs warm, salty loads to play "Pee-shooters at Ten Paces" so much.

48

Are you suggesting Tim @37 that CLIT aid her husband in his self pleasuring and they include a cam girl? While an interesting idea, I don’t read the LW is anywhere near such an adventure. Later maybe. They could have mutual self pleasuring sessions, each with their own cam assistants.

49

I think the path that @42/h1313b takes with her husband is very much along the lines of what I read about (see @19). Say yes more often than you say no, and with loving foreplay - which is fun in and of itself - the vaginal sex that follows feels good, and produces a feeling of closeness that makes the relationship on a whole closer and stronger.

That is definitely something that CLIT should consider trying out for a month or two, which might amount to 16 more times than she might have wanted on her own, and see how she feels about this additional amount of sex and its effect on her marriage.

50

CMD @38, great points both that there are kinky people out there and that even those people have needs too, which selfish kinksters like Fubar's friend's (hopefully) ex and Mr LOADS have forgotten. If you have a kink, and someone who does not share it is willing to indulge it, you should realise you're very fortunate and make sure that person knows how much you appreciate it, and you don't do that by demanding more and ignoring THEIR needs.

h1313b @42, well said. This does seem to be a big point that these "our sex life has dried up" husbands forget: women (also) want affection that does not involve sex. If every cuddle has a string attached, namely that it's expected to lead to sex; if every "not tonight, I'm tired" leads to pouting and an end to the cuddles and kisses, women will feel used and devalued. And even when cuddling does lead to sex, it doesn't need to lead there in a short and direct line. When women say we want foreplay, we don't mean grab us by the pussy within two minutes. Expand your definition of foreplay to include flirtation, fully clothed backrubs, cuddling in front of Netflix. If men can learn to share and enjoy physical affection for its own sake without making it about their penises every time, women will feel loved and valued, and women who feel loved and valued want to share more affection -- of all kinds -- with their partners. It is not rocket science. If Mr CLIT hugged and kissed his wife multiple times a day without making it sexual, CLIT may get the idea that once a week is far less than enough sex.

Lava @45, how would a cam girl constitute cheating, especially if his wife has encouraged it? This falls into the area of things some consider cheating but others do not. Many women would be happier for their partners to have a touch-free outlet than to pester them for sex constantly. I didn't think Tim's suggestion was that CLIT be involved, if the whole idea is to give him some options that don't impose on her.

Griz @47: Dump The Cock Sucker Already! Hahaha. I have to say, Jane was onto something. Some of us are, shall we say, petite. I'm a Goldilocks myself -- medium is just right. :)

51

@35. Bi. The first line of LOADS's letter suggests long-term unmarried partner but doesn't rule out husband. The first line of Dan's answer says 'husband'. Maybe Dan thinks that if you're with the same person monogamously for ten years, you're essentially, morally married (?--a legacy of the times gays couldn't legally get married?). Or maybe there have been losses of substantial sense in the editing--an inevitability in order to excise identifying detail (?).

I realise I'm alone in having reads LOADS as male (and almost certainly wrong because of this ... not that a minority of one is necessarily wrong...). In a sense, I hope LOADS is a man since the answer's easier: find a rando with a small dick (or, rather a succession of such guys), suck the dick, swallow the load (actually a measly thimbleful) at a mutually acceptable interval, and keep your mouth shut about it during much more frequent sex with the lw. Actually, that's probably the most generous solution for LOADS femme as well. She doesn't give an indication she could live with it; perhaps she could watch him sucking a guy off with her in the room, but would fear being uninvolved, or feel it was his cheating or leaving her if he did it by himself. Still, possibly 6-8 nights a year off when she knows exactly what he's doing might be an exceptionally indulgent (on her part) work-around.

@43. Slartibartfast. This might not work as he could be into other guys' loads.

@36. Hachacha. Well, I think 'participate in the assist' is excellent advice. I suspect that a more usual impediment to it is het wives thinking that sex should be special and only entered into with both parties' full, loving, possibly spontaneous enthusiasm. (This won't be true of all wives by any means, though, and probably of few Savagistas...).

53

Harriet @51, you're right that it was Dan who first rounded this couple up to married, and I see that I myself referred @18 to LOADS as a wife. Minor distinction, only important in how easy it will be for this couple to call it quits, which seems the likeliest outcome. I think that if she gave him a pass to do this once, she might be willing to give him a pass to do it regularly if it helps restore her sex life and if he really is all that amazing otherwise. Sounds like she doesn't have much to lose by giving that option a try.

54

It certainly possible that he is bi or gay and his enthrallment with this fantasy is drowning out all awareness of his wife's negative response. But I think @18 BiDanFan hit an interesting point worth exploring, regarding a possible humiliation or rejection kink at play as well. Might verbalizing this fantasy to his partner during sex be paying off in as much a direct as a secondary way?

Dan made the assumption that they haven't had any clear discussion about his desires, but they had sufficiently open communication at one point for her to arrange for him to live this fantasy. There may be some bandwidth remaining to ask, "Is doing something that makes me feel rejected/humiliated/turned off/angry at you, getting you off in some respect?" If he's just so fixated on his fantasy or growing awareness of a bi or gay orientation that he can't hear how it's making her feel, moving on to a secondary question might at least drive that home.

55

Dadddy @41: It's possible that wanting to suck small cocks in particular might be a kink, but his explanation, being hung himself and wanting to "service" a small cock, just doesn't ring true.

As BDF pointed out @34, it's odd that this "kink" would emerge 10 years into an "amazing" relationship, and now he can't STFU about it.

Either way, whether it's technically a kink or not, it's not going away, and LOADS needs to deal with it or move on. CMD had some good advice @38 for negotiating incompatible sex, and others have made great suggestions.

Griz @46, I wonder if Mr. LOADS just has a troublesome gag reflex?

56

I don't find it odd that a kink would emerge after many years. A lot of people feel new desires in mid-life, especially if they start having arousal issues/ED or start thinking more about aging & mortality.

And, no, wanting to suck cock doesn't make one gay.

58

LOADS wants to find a way to ‘get back get back get back to where we once belonged.’ Dont we all, LOADS.
Whatever is the full story with these two, one of them needs to cut this and start talking.

59

I remember the flurry of books written when women kicked the door open, and assertive training was one of them. I think I still have my copy. LOADS could do with some of what that book taught.
LOADS, whatever is going on here, this is not acceptable. Yes, a decade is a long time to be together and it all gets comfortable. This situation though can’t be ignored by you closing up shop, cause it bubbles back up when you two do meet sexually. What the hell is going on with your guy? Ask him. Because you’re wasting your time your life with all this stalling.

60

BDF @ 18 It only works if it is a cock shaped dildo gag (the sucking cock bit) preferably one that shoots a load of something warm, thick and salty down his throat. Maybe with a strap on so that she can take out her frustration, anger and bitterness on his ass hole.

61

@50 BiDanFan: I'm a Goldilocks, too. While I'm big and broad shouldered on top, I get skinnier and smaller from the waist down, with long, skinny legs. I can wear size small yogas and stirrup pants, and have to keep reminding my high school bestie that if I had ever had children I would have to wear mom jeans with elastic waistbands. Small to medium, if I was still sexually active, would be the best fit for me, as well. :)
@55 fubar: I have a serious gag reflex issue when at the dentist office, and when I used to give my (ex)spouse head (unfortunately, he liked to buck when I gave head, to choke me, and was as sloppy a kisser. Long and short, I stopped giving him head, only to have to defend myself against his 50 lbs heavier physical and emotional domestic abuse escalating way back when). If having a gag reflex is true of LOADS' husband, they both have my sympathy there.

62

While it could be nothing but practicality, Mr. LOADS preference for small penises may be along the line of fetish/submission in the sense that not only he gets on his knees to serve a man, he is doing so for someone who’s got a smaller penis than his and possibly deemed as inferior.

Slartibartfast @ 43 idea of feeding him his own is something one can find in pro and advanced circles. Not sure if Ms. LOADS would like to take the initiative on this one as this whole thing doesn’t seem to be her thing, but if she finds domming appealing then it may work for both of them. A strap use on could also be something along that line.

That said, while I’m not sure if skeptic @ 60 was just being sarcastic but a punitive, angry anal penetration is not the way to go unless all involved are experienced and consenting.

63

@55 fubar: Help! Now I have managed to write yet another song parody, based on this week's Savage Love comment thread and my own life experiences.
Sung to the song, Paint it Black, from The Rolling Stones Aftermath album, which debuted on May 7, 1966, here is Gag Reflex:

What can I do about my long term gag reflex?
I've given my dentist an inferiority complex!
Dating is hard enough without my giving head.
If I was still unhappily married, I would be dead!

If I had to choose a penis size it would be small.
Though I am fine with Option D: "None at All".
How not to choke when entered by a wet, sloppy tongue?
I should still be able to walk, no matter how he's hung!

I am a Goldilocks; I'm somewhere "in-between".
Don't make me swallow or I swear, I will turn green!
I don't want to get into a big and ugly fight,
But there's got to be a way that everything fits "just right"!

What can I do about my long term gag reflex?
In over nineteen years I've lost my desire for sex.
Images of choking and gagging remain inside my head.
There are other things that I would rather do, instead.

What can I do about my long term gag reflex?
I've given my dentist an inferiority complex!
Dating is hard enough without my giving head;
If I was still unhappily married, I would be dead!

Coda: repeat and fade [4 x: Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm
Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm
Hmm Hmm Hmm Hmm]

                  What to do about a gag, gag, gag reflex?

It's enough to make me willingly give up sex.
I wanna feel..good.about ..saliva,,..again.
And socializing....the question is....when..?
(repeat and fade)

64

@fubar: To clarify, I think he's gay with a kink for small dicks.

65

Meanwhile, the Lucky @69 Award is coming up again for grabs....tick...tick...tick...

66

I don’t think he’s gay, maybe after ten years he’s itching for variety. Not the best way to ask for it, ignoring his partner’s existence while they have sex.

67

How many times has Mr L acted out his kink? If it’s only the once, then it’s a taboo fantasy he goes to during sex with LOADS. Not unheard of to bring to mind a fantasy during sex, it’s the vocalisation which sticks here. Why does he do that?
LOADS, all guesswork our end, only by bringing these issues up with your partner will the truth be revealed. He obviously enjoys the other parts of your connection, the home you’ve created together. Maybe that doesn’t have to change. Stay housemates, and pursue separate sexual lives.

68

....and this week's Lucky @69 winner IS!............

69

Is there any indication that LOADS spouse is a woman or that LOADS is supposedly straight?
I ask only because not once in the letter does LOADS ask "is my husband gay," which would seem to be the question de jour.

If LOADS is a woman and the marriage is supposedly a different sex one, then the fact LOADS isn't asking if her husband is gay suggests a sea change.

70

@63 griz
What did you type to get that highlighted box??

71

@nocutename: "Is there any indication that LOADS spouse is a woman"

Good question. I reread the letter and the only hint I could find suggesting LOADS is a woman is this sentence:

"A few years ago he started having fantasies about sucking dick."

If they were a gay couple, seems likely the husband would have been fantasizing about sucking dick long before that.

72

Nocute @69, congrats on the magic number. I agree with Dadddy. It's clear that LOADS does not have a cock for their partner to suck nor warm and salty loads for them to swallow, if that had to be outsourced. So they are either a woman or a trans man, and if they were a trans man, I would expect this obsession with dick to be triggering their dysphoria. Ergo Occam's razor applies and LOADS is female. And just as last week, when we discussed whether every woman on the planet would pull a Bridezilla and gnash her teeth that a friend's racist rant at her wedding had "ruined HER day," I think we can posit here that not every woman on the planet thinks that a man with whom she's had satisfying sex for a decade and who also likes cock is gay. I reckon she is within the 37% of straight women who are okay with dating a bisexual man (or perhaps is bisexual herself). Yay, progress.

73

@72 continued, it's possible, as you suggest, that Mr LOADS has been openly bisexual this whole time, which is why she is not questioning his orientation.

74

@53. Bi. I'm now making the presumption the LW and her husband are het-married (or long-term-attached). The 'warm, salty loads' and fetishisation of small dicks are so unusually assorted as sexual interests that I'd feel her husband, with the small dick thing, is feeling himself, against the grain of some phobia, towards an identification as bi or gay. (I will be reprising others' comments here). It would be a damn sight better, in fact, if he declared himself bi and said he needed to swallow a load every month or so. Other than that he's withdrawn in terms of being sexually present and available from his partner/wife....

I am personally very wary of guys who are like, 'I'm into women and sort-of into dicks (or curious about dicks). I'll suck your dick because you're a woman'. What is someone like that offering me? What do they have in common with me culturally? They're going to talk about their kids and their guilt and their so, so boring lives apres-fuck; they're not going to talk about some wildly interesting hobby or place, gossip juicily about mutual acquantances, give me the lowdown of a ballet company or opera. Dullsville ... is Sadsville ... is Dullsville. It's years, well over a decade, since I've been blown by anyone like that. The husband particularly but also the wife should become the creations of their fabulous imaginations; and that means doing better than the guy's dismal 'warm, salty loads'.

75

@57. Hunter. On this one I speak with more authority than you. Not all the fly-bys who wanted to suck me off after my top surgery were gay or bi (either out or closeted). Some I would have had down as closeted gays. Some were straight; some attracted to dicks, the body part; some (not always pleasantly) fetishised 'shemales'.

76

Do I have it right that I thought that LOADS and Mr LOADS were both male; that nocutename thought LOADS and LOADS's partner might be both female; and that Dadddy responded to nocute's conjecture by wondering what I wondered, whether both partners were male?

Does LOADS think it self-evident what both of their genders are?

77

Nothing to say here to the LWs, and my apologies to the other commenters if someone has already pointed it out and I missed it, but I just wanted to show some love to Dan for this:

I guess what I’m trying to say, LOADS, is that your husband really blew it.

Yes, he did. Made me giggle.

78

@CMD I though of that too, regarding the small penis. But as soon as the thought crossed my mind, so did the flip side. The LW seems to like feeling that he is doing a favor to these poor small-cocked lads (unlike his big-cocked self) so it might be that it's making him feel dominant too. Sucking a big cock might make him feel that he's the one being dominated. He's instead making a choice to do this favor for a lesser man. I know I've said this before, but it always strikes me as strange that we think of sucking cock as a submissive act when- like most sex acts- it can go either way. Having a dick shoved down my throat can make me feel dominated, but taking the active role- sucking a guy's dick who's not thrusting- that makes me feel I'm doing something to them- they are in the submissive position. I also thought of the fact that it's just a lot easier to suck a small cock, no chance he's going to gag, etc.

But then regardless of why he's into it, it's only interesting to us as third parties- the obsession (whatever its appeal) is destroying his marriage.

79

Harriet, the fact that the LW says the man's obsession with a small dick makes them feel unattractive and that they allowed the LW to experience this fantasy with someone else leaves only two option: that the LW has no dick or that the LW has a big dick. If it were the second, I think it would really bizarre that the LW did not mention their own dick size when they mentioned the partner's. Moreover, I think it's highly unlikely that a gay/bi man who has been out long enough to be in a long term relationship with another man would have a new found obsession with sucking small dicks that he had never had the opportunity to consider before and that he would fixate on this to the point described - this is almost certain to be the fantasy of a straight man.

We know Mr. Loads is a man with big dick because the LW describes him as such.

The only question that remains is LW's gender- Dan responds as if the LW is a woman probably because it's apparent LW has no dick and most people who do not have dicks are women. I mean, it's always possible that we are talking about a transman in a relationship with another man who has never had the opportunity to suck a small dick before this moment and who now fixates on that, but surely if that were the case, the LW would mention it as it would add a whole new level of inconsiderateness on the part of Mr. Loads. Also Dan might know more about the LW than published, etc.

80

It seems almost as reasonable to assume that information which would materially alter the circumstances of the letter doesn't exist (and that if one finds out later it did one can claim a foul) as it does to use the knowledge that a Killer Sudoku puzzle will have a unique solution.

81

I’m going with LOADS is a woman, as there are too many clues pointing to that. Wouldn’t a man have enjoyed the acted out cock sucking and mentioned their own cock size when talking of Mr L’s fantasy?
MrL’s size was mentioned and the fantasy person’s size too, then why not LOADS mention his, if they are male. Mr L says he still finds the LW attractive, sounds like a man talking to a woman to me.

82

“ A few years ago he started having fantasies about sucking dick.” What man would see that as a problem with his male partner?

83

Oh EL you saw the lack of dick size mentioning too. It’s a glaring omission. Harriet, I do get to your comments, sometimes they set my mind back and I have to go thru my responses again. Not a bad thing.

84

Whatever the genders, cis, trans, or orientations the LW is not being taken care of sexually, and they need to speak up, clear the table and find out what’s going on. Then write back in and tell us because this one is a twister.

85

Harriet @75 "some attracted to dicks, the body part" -- exactly.

Some straight men fetishize dicks, that doesn't mean they want to have sex with men, let alone date men.

I still think they should try having sex while he has a small dildo in his mouth (to keep his mouth happily occupied, not talking her ear off about his fantasy).

86

EL @ 78
My comment speculating on Mr. LOADS fondness for warm salty loads is attempting to follow the possible thinking of an assumed-straight cis het man, which we know can be an obnoxiously repetitive demanding asshole (and suspecting may be gay, which could add to the possible shame on his side.)
That said, I highly value your embrace and share your attitude and enthusiasm on either side.

87

@69: WA-HOOOO!!!!! Major congrats to nocutename for scoring this week's Lucky @69 Award! Bask in the delightfully decadent glory. :)
@70 curious2: I am truly embarrassed to say that I honestly have no idea what I did to get that one highlighted box. Sorry! Since I have gotten no feedback other than yours on my latest song parody (re @63)--which, by the way, was NOT meant to offend LOADS, LOADS' husband, you, Dan the Man, or anyone else--I was mainly poking some fun at myself, actually. Hopefully Mick Jagger and Keith Richards don't sue me, now that I have spoofed two of their classic rock hits from the turbulent 60s. :)

88

re @63: Maybe I should have just stopped at "pee shooters"......?

89

@85. Erica. Some straight guys are dick-curious, I think. They want to suck a dick once or twice to see what it's like; and it can help if it's on a woman. Some might think, at some level, that they're sucking their own dick.

@79. Emma. On the identification of the genders, you are almost certainly--95%+--right. Your first sentence is exactly the same as the first thing I said; and I showed my workings. The second thing you said doesn't strike me as necessarily true (that, in a long-term MM relationship, both partners would have acknowledged dick-sizes: LOADS's partner's is 'large' and LOADS's would be ... something. I'd think that one guy's size could be nondescript or irrelevant).

However, you are right, and none of your actual characterisations of the (likely) case seem to me wrong.

91

re @63, Dan the Man, fubar, BiDanFan, nocutename, LOADS and LOADS' husband, and everyone else: I humbly apologize. The latest song parody I cooked up was meant as my own little laugh at myself, not to offend. Instead, it appears to be in poor taste (no pun intended) .

Is anyone still game for the Big Hunsky? LavaGirl? How is your autumn?

92

@91: Griz, how's the song parody in poor taste? It's snowing today in Toronto. THAT is in poor taste!

What did you type to get that box thing toward the end of the song?

93

@92 continued... perhaps you typed something like...

Code: What to do about a gag, gag, gag reflex?

94

@93... nope

95

What to do about a gag, gag, gag reflex?

It this doesn't work, I give up!

96

@92 fubar: Okay. Thank you for the confirmation that my song parody in this week's SL wasn't going overboard. Like I responded to curious2 (@70), I really wish I knew what I did to highlight a box on that line, 'What to do about a gag, gag, gag reflex?' at the hmm hmm hmm hmm code. At this point, my 2019 iMac knows more than I do and puts up a fight (damned autocorrect!) over everything I type. For some reason, I have fewer typos after consuming red wine. At least my body is enriched with antioxidants. :)

97

I like to think of my shared online song parodies like MAD magazine song spoofs (the writers came up with some real classics of the day, too!), 2020 style.

98

A desire to suck small dicks suggests he's a giver sub and likes to think of himself as such. I'll bet he gets off on the incongruity of a large, well-hung man servicing a guy with a little dick.

Not clear where his wife fits in all of this.

99

And this week's lucky Big Hunsky winner IS!........

100

Oh, OK. I accept.

101

Oh, what the heck?

BTW, where others see a highlighted portion in Griz's comment, I see a couple of lines formatted to Align Right.

102

@100: WA-HOOOOO!!!! Big congrats to slomopomo for scoring this week's Big Hunsky Award! Savor your newfound good fortune and bask in the glory found only in Savage Love. :)
@101 Helenka (also a Canuck): Ah--that's what that is. I unwittingly must have hit "Align Right". Although unintentional, I do kind of like the first line in the coda being somewhat highlighted, as in a feature, and it really fits. Thank you for the tech clarification.

103

@101 Helenka
I'd been experimenting on an old thread, and after hearing this I tried
[right]testtext[/right]
and discovered it doesn't work either.

Out of curiosity, Helenka, can you tell us what browser you're using? OS?

It frustrating that people stumble onto code that works so infrequently no one has remembered what worked yet.

104

@33 Harriet_by_the_Bulrushes: Thank you. Sorry I missed your comment earlier.
This is one reason why I like to go back and review the comments, incase I miss one or two.